Token Daily

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Christopher Wheeler - @Stocktrader

Lightning Labs Blog - The Official Blog of Lightning Labs https://t.co/ZyZBD8F96A

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Ash Egan - @AshAEgan

Exciting day for crypto https://t.co/vNbo4tZ5pi

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Kyle Torpey - @kyletorpey

.@lightning's desktop app is now available on Bitcoin mainnet in an alpha release. https://t.co/i0s9Cc3bIc

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Andreas M. Antonopoulos - @aantonop

RT @lightning: Today our Lightning app launches on Bitcoin mainnet! ⚡️ Try our desktop alpha featuring Neutrino, Autopilot, and a Lightning user experience that puts users in control and privacy first. Read more and install here: https://t.co/3Em5s0svZX https://t.co/nR1ze0yDpZ

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Pierre Rochard - @pierre_rochard

RT @lightning: Today our Lightning app launches on Bitcoin mainnet! ⚡️ Try our desktop alpha featuring Neutrino, Autopilot, and a Lightning user experience that puts users in control and privacy first. Read more and install here: https://t.co/3Em5s0svZX https://t.co/nR1ze0yDpZ

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Matt Odell - @matt_odell

RT @lightning: Today our Lightning app launches on Bitcoin mainnet! ⚡️ Try our desktop alpha featuring Neutrino, Autopilot, and a Lightning user experience that puts users in control and privacy first. Read more and install here: https://t.co/3Em5s0svZX https://t.co/nR1ze0yDpZ

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ecurrencyhodler [Ex X-men] - @ecurrencyhodler

RT @lightning: Today our Lightning app launches on Bitcoin mainnet! ⚡️ Try our desktop alpha featuring Neutrino, Autopilot, and a Lightning user experience that puts users in control and privacy first. Read more and install here: https://t.co/3Em5s0svZX https://t.co/nR1ze0yDpZ

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Olaoluwa Osuntokun - @roasbeef

RT @lightning: Today our Lightning app launches on Bitcoin mainnet! ⚡️ Try our desktop alpha featuring Neutrino, Autopilot, and a Lightning user experience that puts users in control and privacy first. Read more and install here: https://t.co/3Em5s0svZX https://t.co/nR1ze0yDpZ

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elizabeth stark - @starkness

RT @lightning: Today our Lightning app launches on Bitcoin mainnet! ⚡️ Try our desktop alpha featuring Neutrino, Autopilot, and a Lightning user experience that puts users in control and privacy first. Read more and install here: https://t.co/3Em5s0svZX https://t.co/nR1ze0yDpZ

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Dennis Parker⚡️ - @Xentagz

RT @lightning: Today our Lightning app launches on Bitcoin mainnet! ⚡️ Try our desktop alpha featuring Neutrino, Autopilot, and a Lightning user experience that puts users in control and privacy first. Read more and install here: https://t.co/3Em5s0svZX https://t.co/nR1ze0yDpZ

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Wong Joon Ian - @joonian

RT @lightning: Today our Lightning app launches on Bitcoin mainnet! ⚡️ Try our desktop alpha featuring Neutrino, Autopilot, and a Lightning user experience that puts users in control and privacy first. Read more and install here: https://t.co/3Em5s0svZX https://t.co/nR1ze0yDpZ

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po00on 9 hs ago

u/roasbeef does this mean neutrino is now mainnet ?

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royally_fukd 9 hs ago

does this make no sense to you all also?

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fatassdab 11 hs ago

jesus christ. x.xxxxxx SATOSHI's i hope some day satoshi's will be the easiest unit to use for purchases

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Subfolded 11 hs ago

Sorry for what may be a silly question:

I'm already 8 months into my Full BTC Node + Lightning Node (platform9and3quarters) however this looks really nice and I'd like to try it out as a second (much smaller) node for fun. Am I correct that Neutrino allows me to run a fully routing LN node without another BTC Core full node? I may try running this on a different PC than my main node.

EDITED to add: https://i.imgur.com/J6HDGbU.jpg

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roasbeef Lightning Network Expert 10 hs ago

Yeah so the application packages all both `lnd+neutrino` in one. It's a much lighter weight set up compared to running another `lnd` node with `bitcoind`.

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pumpkin105 12 hs ago

When I have an lnd node running on my raspberry pi, could I use that node as backend and the desktop app as frontend?

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wndringE 12 hs ago

<3

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fermentedbolivian redditor for 4 weeks 12 hs ago

This the UI we need to see more often.

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sreaka 12 hs ago

Nice work roasbeef

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FantasticEchidna4 13 hs ago

where's the signature for the wallet? and what public key? I'm gonna put real money on this.

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roasbeef Lightning Network Expert 12 hs ago

The applications are code signed at the OS level. On Mac OS you can check the binary with: > codesign -dv --verbose=4 /Applications/Lightning.app

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FantasticEchidna4 11 hs ago

thanks. how can I verify on linux?

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Bruceleeroy18 13 hs ago

!lntip 1000

Thanks roasbeef

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lntipbot 13 hs ago

Hi u/Bruceleeroy18, thanks for tipping u/roasbeef **1000** satoshis! *** *[^(More info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/lntipbot/wiki/index) ^| [^(Balance)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=balance&message=!balance) ^| [^(Deposit)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=deposit&message=!deposit 10000) ^| [^(Withdraw)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=withdraw&message=!withdraw put_invoice_here) ^| ^(Something wrong? Have a question?) [^(Send me a message)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=drmoore718)*

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Mr--Robot 13 hs ago

Is there a way to pay for opening a new channel directly, avoiding an onchain tx to the wallet first?
I see only the amount for opening a channel and the address of the node to where I want to open the channel. So basically will take from the onchain wallet the funds for the channel.
Can we skip that step where I have to move from somewhere else wallet to this wallet some funds and then open a channel with the funds I already have on the onchain wallet?

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roasbeef Lightning Network Expert 10 hs ago

> Can we skip that step where I have to move from somewhere else wallet to this wallet some funds and then open a channel with the funds I already have on the onchain wallet? For now you need to "deposit" funds into this wallet. In the future, once [Lightning Loop](https://blog.lightning.engineering/posts/2019/03/20/loop.html) is integrated in the application, you'll be able to use it to top off an _existing_ channel.

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bitusher 13 hs ago

Found it , Click on "X on lightning" text below fiat, than top right click "add" button, enter the amount and the channel and click done

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Mr--Robot 13 hs ago

I know that, but I am talking about not having to pass through a tx from another onchain wallet to this onchain wallet and then to opening a channel.

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bitusher 13 hs ago

Gotcha, yes , that is a problem that needs a git issue , legacy segwit only deposits. Should show native segwit default, with link below to change to legacy segwit and right beside onchain deposit should give LN QR code and address

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e3ee3 13 hs ago

We need that Loop integration

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roasbeef Lightning Network Expert 10 hs ago

🔜

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FantasticEchidna4 13 hs ago

oh great! downloading right away!

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bitusher 13 hs ago

Beautiful wallet UX. Downloading to test now

Thus far , I notice one issue that is a security concern. Desktop Wallets should not have the BIP39 password in plaintext as that encourages copy and pasting it digitally which is dangerous. People need to manually write down these words physically and not store them digitally.

edit - wow that was a quick sync . Nuetrino is neat.

Neat that it obscures the difference between onchain and LN

edit 2 --- logs are important but only people like roasbeef can read that fast as mine is scrolling like crazy .. needs a button to export logfile instead

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davidcwilliams 9 hs ago

> Neat that it obscures the difference between onchain and LN I haven't tested this wallet yet, but yeah, I have always thought that this would be the goal of Bitcoin/Lightning Network... full where the casual user would see no difference between on-chain and off.

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bitusher 9 hs ago

Yes, it shows you the onchain and offchain balances different , but unlike eclair when you send BTC it doesn't make a distinction , you can paste or scan in a LN qr code or onchain address

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roasbeef Lightning Network Expert 12 hs ago

> Desktop Wallets should not have the BIP39 password in plaintext as that encourages copy and pasting it digitally which is dangerous. People need to manually write down these words physically and not store them digitally. It's actually not BIP 39, it's a [cipher seed](https://github.com/lightningnetwork/lnd/tree/master/aezeed). It has some cool things that make it easier for neutrino to use like a birthday so we know when to start the rescan from. We don't store the seed internally, and instead require the user to confirm it.

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bitusher 12 hs ago

neat , so cipher seeds are a new standard for nuetrino wallets?

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roasbeef Lightning Network Expert 11 hs ago

It's what `lnd` uses, have been meaning to write it up as a BIP since it's also linked to things like our SCB format as well.

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cfromknecht Lightning Network Expert 11 hs ago

they are the standard for all LND nodes

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roasbeef Lightning Network Expert 12 hs ago

> edit 2 --- logs are important but only people like roasbeef can read that fast as mine is scrolling like crazy .. needs a button to export logfile instead Yeah there's a PR up to slow down the rate the scrolling for the logs. You can also find them on disk depending on your operating system.

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ninja_batman 13 hs ago

> Desktop Wallets should not have the BIP39 password in plaintext as that encourages copy and pasting it digitally which is dangerous. I agree that this is bad practice for large amounts, but if you have a bunch of wallets, I personally don't think it is unreasonable to store the backup seed phrase in your password manager or as encrypted files on disk for the smaller ones.

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bitusher 13 hs ago

Yes , a password manager like keepass could be fine for smaller amounts. Issue here is that some idiot will install this on their infected windows machine and deposit a larger amount. Better to force users to use good security practices as a default than if they want they can type the words in a pass manager later.

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tookdrums 13 hs ago

> logs is important but only people like roasbeef can read that fast as mine is scrolling like crazy So true, you have to watch his presentation on youtube at minimum 0.75 speed

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dinglebarry9 14 hs ago

u/roasbeef you are my hero and 4 years younger. Great job, oh and if you see this I started a small Lightning development business and we think we have found a way to bring the LN to mass adoption. I would love to discuss with you and get your opinion on our security model.

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cyborgene 9 hs ago

I'd love to hear it too if I may of course

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pierenjan 14 hs ago

Ooh exciting!

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WeaponizedMath Developer 8 hs ago

TLDR people use weak passphrases to generate their wallets.

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SatoshiNakaFOMO 9 hs ago

BREAKING NEWS: Homeowner stores valuables on front porch - DISCOVERS THEM MISSING NEXT MORNING!

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Crypto_To_The_Core 9 hs ago

Some highlights from the linked article:

the researchers not only found that cryptocurrency users have in the last few years stored their crypto treasure with hundreds of easily guessable private keys, but also uncovered what they call a "blockchain bandit." A single Ethereum account seems to have siphoned off a fortune of 45,000 ether—worth at one point more than $50 million—using those same key-guessing tricks.

steal more than half a billion dollars worth of cryptocurrency in recent years.

2,846 bitcoins stolen with brain-wallet thefts, worth more than $17 million at current exchange rates.

One single Ethereum brain-wallet theft in late 2015 made off with 40,000 ether, nearly as big a haul as the blockchain bandit's.

And that's just some .... see linked article.

Hey u/ky1e, you probably have at least some of this in your list of Hacks, Glitches, Exit Scams, and other Lost Cryptocurrency Incidents, but just in case ....

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brianddk 9 hs ago

Related (perhaps):

Crypto shocker: four of every 1,000 public keys provide no security (updated) | ArsTechnica

The researchers speculate that embedded systems may be a culprit. We will never know, but it would be interesting to know how many of pilfered ETH addresses were generated by mobile devices or other weak microcontroller.

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Crypto_To_The_Core 9 hs ago

TRUSTLESS !!!!

UNHACKABLE !!!

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murderousmungo 10 hs ago

I'm reading this with great interest, and would like some clarifications on some inferences that I am making.

From the story: ...if anyone knows an Ethereum private key, they can use it to derive the associated public address that the key unlocks.

Inference:

If you know the private key, you can find the public
A dictionary based brute force on the most simple combinations of keys should yield results
Any random Hex64 code could theoretically be an ethereum private key
All ethereum addresses can be validated

So, by randomly hammering private key combos, you can trace the public key that would be associated to that, and check the blockchain for its existence, or validate using any one of the many validation methods?

Seems to me that brute force is actually viable. Yes, I get that the amount of processing power to do this work would be large, but, hey GPU's have some pretty impressive power these days.

I am now concerned about my own ethereum wallet.

So, please take apart this ridiculous idea, and make me feel better.

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R_Sholes 9 hs ago

Attacks like this work by guessing that somebody chose a private key from a list of millions (simple dictionary attacks) or billions (attacks based on weaknesses of specific implementations, eg. random generator might actually be not random but based on current date and time to milliseconds - then if you approximately know when a wallet was created, you can try reproducing that "random" generation for every millisecond of that day to crack it). Proper randomness chooses from all 2^256 possibilities (or billions of billions ... (6 times more "of billions") of possibilities), so they're safe until the underlying cryptography is broken.

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murderousmungo 9 hs ago

Surely we cannot be so far away in terms of raw computing capability to being able to brute force 2^(256). Isn't this type of hyper aggressive, processor intensive work what the mining farms are actually doing (as POC rather than brute force)? I am technologically very literate, but am aware of what I dont know, so hence my questions here.

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R_Sholes 8 hs ago

* If current Bitcoin farms were able to bruteforce keys at the same speed as they're mining (and they're **extremely** specialized for mining to achieve this speed) * and their hardware was a trillion times faster * and there were a trillion times as many of them * and we gave that many farms to every single human alive today then this setup would be able to bruteforce a specific key in a few billion years. More realistic danger is advances in quantum computing, so during next decade there will be gradual phasing out of currently vulnerable algorithms (Ethereum's and Bitcoin's included). Just don't get phished or hacked until then, and don't miss the window to replace your current key because all the old keys will likely be deemed dead and lost after that.

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Cr3X1eUZ 10 hs ago

This is good for Bitcoin.

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segwitless 10 hs ago

If only these people with easy to guess keys were storing their crypto on the Quadriga exchange.

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Crypto_To_The_Core 9 hs ago

.... then Gerry would keep their coinz 100% SAFU. 100,000+ Quadriga Butters did nothing wrong.

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diggsta buy low buy high 11 hs ago

Ledger Nano should be safe. There are so many and if only one got hacked, this would spread like a wildfire.

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Flip1313 1 - 2 year account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. 11 hs ago

To perform bulk scanning of potential Ethereum addresses, it is impractical, and even abusive in terms of resource usage, to query an online service like Etherscan. Instead, we generated an in-memory hash map of all public Ethereum addresses and queried this in-memory data structure for each enumerated key. On a local mid-range laptop this resulted in a performance of roughly 15,000 key generations and lookups per second, per CPU core

checking ~34.3 billion keys in an 8-hour period. So, it is feasible to run periodic checks to identify new private keys that have been introduce in future works.

So they checked EVERY address and only found “732“ private keys and they can check daily to see if any more week keys are generated

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goopcat 12 hs ago

Y'all get a chance to read the research paper behind this? https://www.securityevaluators.com/casestudies/ethercombing/

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Jubi_Lee 12 hs ago

Bednarek argues the lesson of ISE's ethercombing is, for wallet developers, to audit their code carefully to find any bug that might truncate keys and leave them vulnerable. And users should take care with what wallet they choose. "You can’t call the help desk and ask them to reverse a transaction. When it's gone, it’s gone forever," Bednarek says. "People should use trusted wallets and download them from a trusted source."

Oh! The lesson is, never drop your guard, but you will still have to trust some creepto developers that you carefully choose to believe are trustworthy.

And here I thought the lesson was, nobody can steal your Butts if you never have any...!

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PlasmaSheep 12 hs ago

Be your own security auditor.

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XmrFanMan 9 hs ago

This is my favorite part of crypto. People actually expect everyone to be able to read and understand massive amounts of code someone else wrote, and be able to audit it for backdoors. Even professionals have a hard time finding tricky backdoors in code. It'd be easier to write your own wallet. Somehow they expect mass adoption and decentralization this way. I'm sure that 99% of butters couldn't even figure out how to compile a shitcoin's code. The Parity hack showed how much trust is in these "trustless" systems. Open source code, on the ETH blockchain, and people deposited over $100 million before some kid just screwing around managed to destroy the contract and lock everyone's funds forever. Don't trust those macroeconomists, or those filthy statists at the Fed, or the full faith and credit of nations, trust some random internet guy with your money.

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im-the-stig 12 hs ago

ELI5: That last transaction, that emptied the compromised wallet, should also be stored in the common ledger, right?

Are they going to the 'hacker's wallet, or is it just getting cashed out?

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goopcat 12 hs ago

[https://etherscan.io/address/0x957cd4ff9b3894fc78b5134a8dc72b032ffbc464](https://etherscan.io/address/0x957cd4ff9b3894fc78b5134a8dc72b032ffbc464) looks like they are sitting on it

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drpepper 12 hs ago

This is stupid. Itll take you longer than the age of the universe to guess a private key that holds funds.

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GaiaPariah Philosopher 12 hs ago

Did you read the article? The way that this methodology works is to work from private keys that are generated from weak seeds, to figure out public keys that contain funds. It is not a case of working from public key to private key, but the other way around (since you can derive a public key from the private key).

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goopcat 6 - 7 years account age. 350 - 700 comment karma. 12 hs ago

yeah, the research paper covers the method for how weak keys were brute forced. [https://www.securityevaluators.com/casestudies/ethercombing/](https://www.securityevaluators.com/casestudies/ethercombing/)

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novadaemon 12 hs ago

"At the peak of Ethereum's exchange rate in January of 2013, the bandit's account held 38,000 ether, worth more than $54 million at the time."

Eth wasn't around in 2013.

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goopcat 6 - 7 years account age. 350 - 700 comment karma. 12 hs ago

lol looks like they made a typo

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juxtaposezen 13 hs ago

That is a little scary. I would assume than none of the keys that were “guessed” were generated from the hierarchical deterministic key creation (BIP32/BIP39/BIP44 etc) protocols like the Ledger Nano-S uses. I thought that was near impossible. I do not even actually know my private key. Only my seed that "knows" it.

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Ber10 5 - 6 years account age. 600 - 1000 comment karma. 14 hs ago

Fantastic, how do you choose a complex seed/private key that wont be guessed ?

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manly_ 12 hs ago

It's simple, you need a truly random input which isnt based off time (that can be attacked) or computer identifiers (could be attacked, especially for virtual machines). Thats why the old PGP software forced you to move the mouse sporadically for a while, so that that could be added to the RNG.  the problem is, some less technologically aware wallet apps will simply do like sha(passphrase + rng()) to generate your private key, not realizing that their RNG function is total garbage. Most RNG implementation arent secure to begin with, so its possible a wallet could have use one of those. It's a bit like people assuming you can use new\_guid() for a RNG source; it only guarantees uniqueness, not fair distribution of values.

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trump-is-cancer Redditor for 20 days. 13 hs ago

Real question...but does this effect cold wallets?

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BGoodej 9 hs ago

It doesn't matter of it's a cold or hot wallet. All that matters is how the key was generated.

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imeanwhyevenbother 14 hs ago

Just another way to mine your crypto...

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satireplusplus 14 hs ago

With code = law is this even stealing?

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AmbivelentApoplectic 10 hs ago

Pointing out flaws in the tech is good for everyone, the people who had wallets emptied likely thanked then for their crucial code troubleshooting.

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SeventeenHydralisks 14 hs ago

The people being stolen from have intentionally used a weak private key (e.g. 111111...) rather than randomly generating a secure one as intended, so I'd say the fault is entirely on them.

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repairreuserecycle 9 hs ago

https://youtu.be/a6iW-8xPw3k

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unbounded_recusion 12 hs ago

Any usable system has to protect against the fact that people are on the whole, fucking stupid.

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Experience111 9 hs ago

With that criterion, legacy credentials systems are not doing any better. Many people are still using the same couple of weak passwords for all their online accounts get wrecked when there is a data breach or simply when someone brute forces their accounts. I don’t think that’s a practical criterion.

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Crypto_To_The_Core 9 hs ago

>Any usable system has to protect against the fact that ~~people~~ **Butters** are ~~on the whole,~~ fucking stupid. Ftfy. :)

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satireplusplus 14 hs ago

Counter-point is that if you leave your bike or car unlocked and someone takes it from you, it's still theft.

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AnswerForYourBazaar 11 hs ago

Do blockchain entries belong to a physical entity or a private key, though?

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R_Sholes 11 hs ago

Currently you can show that you were in control of the private key corresponding to (some) specific transactions thanks to completely unnecessary middlemen exchanges and their invasive KYC/AML procedures, but there's usually no easy way to show they were stolen and it's not just you trying to back out of paying for, uh, *art, research chemicals and conflict resolution services* after the fact.

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thehoesmaketheman 14 hs ago

Bikes aren't blockchains though. Blockchains are immutable. Statist thugs and rules have no effect on them. Not your keys not your COinZ. Please educate yourself. You cannot steal coinz and you cannot 51% attack a blockchain. If someone has 51% of the hash power then everyone else is actually 49% attacking them. Go read a book bud. Jesus. (And by that I mean go watch Jordan Peterson YouTube videos so he can tell you what to think)

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Symphonic_Rainboom 12 hs ago

> If someone has 51% of the hash power then everyone else is actually 49% attacking them. Someone add this to SnapshillBot.

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zecg 10 hs ago

That was sarcastic, we need to keep snappy pure.

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HATA111 13 hs ago

I'm going to lock my bike with a blockchain now. Thanks for your advice.

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eigenman 10 hs ago

Only 10 minutes to unlock your bike hash. And with proof of work, you'll be able to show to anyone who cares that you did the work.

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SeventeenHydralisks 14 hs ago

True. They deserve it, and anonymity and automation make it a hell of a lot easier, but it's still theft.

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StrikingFalcon 14 hs ago

He just found a loophole

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SnapshillBotFan 14 hs ago

Converting them back to filthy fiat? The real news is that they were able to cash out

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PatrickBitmain 15 hs ago

MILLIONS

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SnapshillBot 15 hs ago

Is Bitcoin at this point, with all the potential that opens up, the most undervalued asset ever?

Snapshots:

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ulyssessword Yesterday

Cryptocurrency has a built-in bug bounty?

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ms4 13 hs ago

So that’s why it’s so groundbreaking

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fuelter Yesterday

Found the flaw:

if anyone knows an Ethereum private key, they can use it to derive the associated public address that the key unlocks

If the private key allows you to find the "lock" (adress/wallet) it unlocks, that's a huge flaw.

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Veranova Yesterday

That's asymmetric cryptography. It's not a flaw it's by design. RSA is quite expensive to compute so brute forcing this takes a while. And the key space is so huge that you're unlikely to ever stumble upon a real wallet, though it is possible. This article was just about some weak keys which are all very simple and could be guessed by a human, and a properly generated key will not equal this for the same reason as guessing a key is hard. If this is a noteworthy flaw, then every password is flawed, because you can just brute force guess until you get it. Fact is we're aware of these limitations and accept them because it's highly improbable that it could be exploited (we're talking 100s of thousands of years for a single hit) with current technology.

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genshiryoku Yesterday

The real crying starts when quantum computers reach 256 qbits and can crack SHA256

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theotherme412 13 hs ago

Won’t the encryption evolve as well? SHA512? Did I just make that up?

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genshiryoku 13 hs ago

Yeah there are a couple of "quantum proof" encryption prototypes. We just haven't ironed them out yet and we need to quickly find something.

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PleasantAdvertising 14 hs ago

The world will literally stop functioning the moment this is public knowledge, at least for a few days. Old data that intelligence agencies have been hording will decrypted, no communication will be safe and everything will need updating. If I was to posses a device to decrypt any "safe" communication out there in reasonable time, I'd keep it hidden from the world for as long as possible while abusing it.

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R_Sholes 15 hs ago

1. SHA-256 isn't a target for quantum computers, as well as traditional symmetric cryptography. 2. For breaking current practical public key cryptography (2048 bit RSA/256 bit elliptic curves) you need about 20 times more qubits than that. "Real crying" of this kind is predicted to start late next decade, not just around the corner as you imply.

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genshiryoku 13 hs ago

SHA256 *can* be cracked from 256 Qbits as absolute minimum which IBM expects to reach before 2021. The US government aims for 4096 Qbit quantum computers by 2029 which is why the National Quantum Initiative Act was signed.

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R_Sholes 13 hs ago

Unless there is a breakthrough in quantum computing algorithms, SHA-256 is only reduced to 2^128 attempts for preimage attacks by Grover algorithm, which is nowhere near a threat, and even then it still is estimated to require thousands of qubits. Breaking cryptography of *current* strength in a *decade* is nowhere close to an immediate looming threat as well.

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superm8n Yesterday

It will still take them decades to do so, maybe longer. By that time the software will be updated.

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genshiryoku Yesterday

We went from 14 Qbits to 72 Qbits in less than 2 years. IBM expects their first 256 Qbit computer before 2021. We are also expecting the Quantum Computing world to boom considering [Trump signed a special 10 year national project](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Quantum_Initiative_Act) to develop Quantum Computers as fast as possible December 2018. It's a project similar in size to the Manhattan project or the Apollo Project and we can expect great results from it

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kippertie Yesterday

The greatest results. Yuge results.

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fuelter Yesterday

Still it's a vulnerability if you can find the "lock" just by knowing the key. And how to make sure that every private key only exists once?

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sciencetaco 9 hs ago

There are more possible private keys than atoms in the known universe. Generating keys at random in a large possibility space, and using that to derive a public key... that’s the basis for how encryption worked for decades. This isn’t limited to crypto currencies. It’s how the systems that underpin all digital security work. It’s why brute forcing has always been a thing. The trick is to make brute forcing not viable by making it take trillions of years.

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dd3fb353b512fe99f954 14 hs ago

It’s by design and I’m not sure it can’t be, the public and private keys have to be mathematically related or the whole scheme won’t work.

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fuelter 14 hs ago

Yeah the key but not to the adress to the wallet.

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phailhaus 13 hs ago

The wallet address *is* the public key. That's how blockchains work. Crypto wallets aren't like physical wallets, they're not a "place". If you have the private key, then you can sign transactions as if you are the owner. That's what it means to have the "key to the wallet". And if someone said "i give you 10 dollars", then having the private key lets you say "And now I give that 10 dollars to someone else".

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Veranova Yesterday

I don't entirely disagree with the sentiment. But the fact is all cryptography is based on this concept of "I know a secret which you don't". It's an arms race where we just keep increasing the difficulty (length of the key) to try and stay ahead of modern compute power. The biggest problem (the real flaw) for Blockchain is also its selling point. Anyone can download the database and operate directly on it. Websites usually have rate limiting and a "3-strikes and your account is locked" policy which prevents this kind of brute forcing, but with the raw data on your computer there's no such barrier.

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tilttovictory 13 hs ago

Isn't it entirely possible to do something similar with your wallet though. Although it would be a pain in the ass. The lockout here would be a kin to a wallet / seed migration. Keep in mind i'm just spit balling.

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autotldr Yesterday

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 87%. (I'm a bot)

The cash had already been taken out of the Ethereum wallet that used it-almost certainly by a thief who had thought to guess a private key of 1 long before Bednarek had. After all, as with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, if anyone knows an Ethereum private key, they can use it to derive the associated public address that the key unlocks.

The mistake was probably the result, he says, of Ethereum wallets that cut off keys at just a fraction of their intended length due to coding errors, or let inexperienced users choose their own keys, or even that included malicious code, corrupting the randomization process to make keys easy to guess for the wallet's developer.

Bednarek did perform some spot checks of about 100 weak Bitcoin keys and found that the contents of the corresponding wallets had all been stolen, too, though none had been taken by an obvious big fish like the Ethereum bandit they'd identified-perhaps evidence of fiercer, more distributed competition among thieves targeting Bitcoin compared with Ethereum.

Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: key^#1 Ethereum^#2 Bednarek^#3 more^#4 blockchain^#5

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CONTROLurKEYS 14 hs ago

Is there even a pull request?

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Bitcoin_21 15 hs ago

exchanges might oppose these changes because they bring more privacy.

the privacy wars might start with that...and the FUD

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cooriah redditor for 3 months Yesterday

If [the online exchanges] say, ‘we don’t take transactions that are private,’ users will just switch service providers ultimately.

I disagree with this. We see how some businesses will not let us use their services, citing our nation is not allowing it or their site just doesn't want any grief that would follow from our government.

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zomgitsduke Yesterday

I feel like supporters of Segwit are probably in support (or at least not against) the development and discussion of these implementations.

It is still up to the devs to create, implement, test, vet, and present their work. I will not accept anything less than a thoroughly-vetted process to make sure the implementations are conservatively implemented. I want as minimal risk as possible to security loopholes, inefficiencies, etc.

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bitusher Yesterday

IMHO, this would be an ideal process--

Consensus is found within developers to first address any valid concerns . Bitcoin ultimately is a software project so this is the starting point.
Once devs have consensus they should solicit the wider community of businesses , miners, exchanges for any input, objections, or concerns
Once a rough consensus is found here they should release the code for testing as an RC, than final version to be slowly adopted by nodes and miners
activation code should generally follow BIP 8

https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0008.mediawiki

Where soft fork (not hard fork as that requires much stronger levels of consensus) lock in for new upgrades can occur fairly quickly once 95% of hashrate within a set window activates the soft fork

Otherwise a ~6 month delay occurs before a lower threshold of 80% of hashrate can activate the soft fork

If this is not met another ~6 month delay (total 1 year) before a flag upgrade UASF of all upgraded nodes occurs where the uncooperative miners either decide to go their own way or comply with users wants like we saw before with UASF148/segwit2x

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poopiemess 17 hs ago

That doesn't sound realistic. Information and research is a free flow of information and who is a researcher, developer or economic user is full of blurry lines. Roles are fluid and information flows freely. Consensus is always formed by all the parties, especially economic market discovery.

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bitusher 17 hs ago

> Consensus is always formed by all the parties, Users, miners and businesses actively participate in the development process while it occurs. People often fit multiple roles and categories as well

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poopiemess 17 hs ago

Yes, exactly my point!

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sebthauvette 14 hs ago

Different questions will be discussed at each level. I won't participate in the decision of how to implement a specific feature or where to put it in the codebase, simply because I don't know the codebase enough and don't really understand the different ways each feature could be implemented. However, I had an opinion about the decision of changing the block size or not because it affected the bandwidth and storage space I need to run my node. Businesses would probably have other concerns about things that might impact maintenance or downtime linked to an upgrade. What OP describes is the type of points that will be discussed at each step. We can't talk about how a change will affect us before that change has been precisely defined an it's impact measured.

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poopiemess 14 hs ago

And that's a very reasonable position of you! But my argument is that reality is messier, things are going to overlap, there are nuances to many arguments, and the idealized order of proceedings is just idealized. I don't expect Bitcoin to be anything else than that and I expect the community will have to rise up to even greater challenges. And we won't have a clue.

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sebthauvette 8 hs ago

Of course. Nothing always goes exactly as planned but it always help to have a plan before we start.

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bitusher 14 hs ago

Yes, I was just listing general rough steps as a consensus guideline, the reality is always more complex

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Touchmyhandle Yesterday

Guaranteed that roger vermin will drag his heels.

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BeeCache redditor for 1 week 17 hs ago

bcash is implementing schnorr next month with yet another hf

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Touchmyhandle 16 hs ago

Exactly. Vermin stands to gain if bcash has it and bitcoin doesn't.

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riclas Yesterday

weird timing for this question, when we don't even have PRs for these features.

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cryptohazard Yesterday

Nah, I highly doubt it

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FantasticEchidna4 Yesterday

so it is BIP8 like UASF but miners also signal?

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nowitsalllgone redditor for 3 months Yesterday

BIP8 was not UASF. The concept of a UASF never had a generic BIP, but there was a specific BIP for activating Segwit fia UASF: BIP148. If we wanted to create a generic UASF BIP that could be used with any softfork upgrade, we'd need to come up with one. BIP8 is like BIP9 except miners don't have any more input than anyone else.

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jpthor_ Yesterday

Segwit was pushed back hard from Bitmain because it destroyed their covert ASIC boost scheme.

It was then hijacked by big blockers who tried to use it for their agenda of increasing the block size, hence SegWit2x (NYA).

There is no antagonist in the case of Schnorr. Bcash are boasting they will implement it first, so it doesn't look like it will be rail-roaded by them either.

The only organisation who in theory should oppose it are Goverments who want to prevent the privacy enhancements that it brings.

However it seems they either don't understand it and/or have been distracted by the allure of the lush green fields of Ethereum.

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thesmokecameout 16 hs ago

> Segwit was pushed back hard from Bitmain because it destroyed their covert ASIC boost scheme. So much this. It seems like no one remembers Jihan Wu's scam any more.

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jpthor_ 9 hs ago

Bitmain failing to IPO from getting wrecked on BCH + mistiming the ASIC cycle is a beautiful thing for Bitcoin. They were such a parasitic bad actor on the space. There is a huge list: - backdooring ASICs - mining using customer inventory before shipping - secret ASICs - covert ASIC boost - opposing SegWit - propping up BCash - offensive patents - mining empty blocks - mis-use of version but space ... Etc We've finally crossed the ASIC monopoly and now have an emerging competitive market. Bitcoin has won

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Elum224 Yesterday

From what I have heard on Podcasts, governments aren't opposed to the privacy tech. But then there's the issue with the word "government" it's a lot of different departments that have different ideas and desires.

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amaninann Yesterday

The antagonist this time will be exchanges. They benefit most from chain analysis.

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Sajjon Yesterday

Well Bcash will hardly be the first crypto project to incorporate Schnorr signatures, Zilliqa has already done it.

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bearCatBird Yesterday

Can you expand on the ethereum comment?

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cm9kZW8K 11 hs ago

Eth is a honeypot for ICO scammers, stablecoin schemes, DAOS, and all other sorts of noise. Regulators, scammers, idiots, victims, and such are all busy there, so that takes some of the crap out of the bitcoin ecosystem. Likewise, Monero is a honeypot for the dunning-kruegerites, amateur privacy nerds, darknet marketeers, forensics firms, spy agencies, and the IRS. It keeps those groups busy and also away from BTC. Other than the purpose of wasting the time of some bad groups and weak hands, alts serve no purpose and have no future.

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thesmokecameout 16 hs ago

Ethereum was being used to pump a lot of ICO scams. I don't know about other governments, but in the U.S., the SEC was all over that for violations of securities laws.

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typtyphus 8 hs ago

>Ethereum was being used to pump a lot of ICO scams. you should see BCH's SPL tokens

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jpthor_ Yesterday

Ethereum presents all the qualities that would be desirable for authoritarian governments such as socialist control, centralised seignorage and plutocracy. It's an easy mark. If Ethereum gains widespread enterprise and government adoption then everything from the previous playbook can be ported from the old world to the new. Blockchains that have Enterprise Alliances, Diversity initiatives and constant global campaigning are being primed to power the future control system. Make no mistake. Which is fine. I dig it. Bitcoin will continue to absorb and emerge as the single value transport system that is free from control and influence.

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olliec420 10 hs ago

> Ethereum presents all the qualities that would be desirable for authoritarian governments such as socialist control, centralised seignorage and plutocracy. > It's an easy mark. If Ethereum gains widespread enterprise and government adoption then everything from the previous playbook can be ported from the old world to the new. > Blockchains that have Enterprise Alliances, Diversity initiatives and constant global campaigning are being primed to power the future control system. Make no mistake. > Which is fine. I dig it. Bitcoin will continue to absorb and emerge as the single value transport system that is free from control and influence. Im with you 100%. As soon as Eth forked, the governments and global corps were all over it, particularly with the EEA. They scream "Anti-bitcoin, anti-bitcoin, (Eth reverses a transaction) CHEERS TO ETH!!!" They want something they can track users and manipulate accounts.

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DJBunnies Yesterday

It's a nice distraction.

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Manticlops Yesterday

Changes to bitcoin should be difficult. And if they rid the ecosystem of bad actors along the way, so much the better.

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GibbsSamplePlatter Yesterday

Really looking forward to the proposal, but this.

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dellintelbitcoin 16 hs ago

Im looking forward to the activation. BTC feels way sexier after segwit and bech32. I need more.

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SuccessfulOperation 12 hs ago

Text: https://pastebin.com/umjLDZpE

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taipalag I for one welcome our new cat overlords 13 hs ago

So this famed uberinvestor FOMOed in at the ATH then panic sold when it dropped?

What a noob LOL.

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TremblerBody 15 hs ago

THAT IS A LOT OF MONEY TO LOSE.

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SAT0SHl Yesterday

There goes this weeks allowance.

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saiiboost Crypto Expert | QC: CC 118 Yesterday

If he's still holding bags, he hasn't really lost.

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1standarduser Low Crypto Activity 11 hs ago

No

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SigmaNOC Low Crypto Activity 13 hs ago

Lol

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bentaylor84 Crypto Expert | QC: VEN 50 Yesterday

The article says he sold in early 2018

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PrFaustroll Crypto Nerd | QC: CC 38 Yesterday

He is not, getting rekt hard

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saiiboost Crypto Expert | QC: CC 118 Yesterday

Dayum lol. Sucks to be him!

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RedsApple7 Crypto God | QC: KIN 324 Yesterday

Wouldn’t suck to be him, he’s worth $24 billion. It’s like losing $100 to most people.

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Jbergene Crypto God | QC: CC 155, NANO 46, VEN 40 13 hs ago

That is. Alot because you would have 2400$

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saiiboost Crypto Expert | QC: CC 118 Yesterday

I want that kind of problem........

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RedsApple7 Crypto God | QC: KIN 324 Yesterday

Yeah no doubt, would be nice!

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saiiboost Crypto Expert | QC: CC 118 Yesterday

"Oh, $130 million lost? Tis but a fart in the wind..........."

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Romi-Omi Yesterday

His paper wealth goes up and down by more than 130million almost every day. That’s nothing for him...

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Aussiehash Yesterday

Never go full hara-kiri

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schemingraccoon Yesterday

The transfer of wealth slowly begins....

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forde250 Yesterday

I wish this was the case but most likely .. the wealthy will hold the most bitcoin

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phx9 redditor for 3 days Yesterday

a few for sure. plenty won't.

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Vaeon Yesterday

Did no one tell him to hodl because the next Bull Run is right around the corner?

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kalashnikovkitty9420 Yesterday

Buy high sell low it’s easy

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lwc-wtang12 Yesterday

Lmao

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duxup - @duxup 9 hs ago

I can't read the article as I don't have a subscription.

So if you're this dude, how do you make this investment?

Presumably you just call your fiance guy and tell him to put a huge amount of money into Bitcoin and the order gets passed down to someone who knows what their doing and somewhere there is a PC out there with a bazillion dollars in Bitcoin sitting in cold storage?

I gotta think the end guy who makes the buy is a pretty big target for criminal types as far as figuring out where such coins are stored....

qaq - @qaq 10 hs ago

Which in context of his net worth is pretty much noise

yyyyip - @yyyyip 11 hs ago

Masayoshi seems great at picking market tops and buying into them.

thegranderson - @thegranderson 9 hs ago

Full-text, for those blocked by the paywall:

SoftBank Founder Masayoshi Son Lost $130 Million on Bitcoin

Japanese billionaire made a huge personal investment in the digital currency as prices peaked

By Rachael Levy and Liz Hoffman April 23, 2019 7:00 a.m. ET Masayoshi Son, the billionaire founder of SoftBank Group Corp. 9984 0.31% , made a huge personal bet on bitcoin just as prices for the digital currency peaked, losing more than $130 million when he sold out, according to people familiar with the matter.

Mr. Son, who launched the world’s biggest venture-capital fund on the strength of his long-term investing acumen, made the investment at the recommendation of a well-known bitcoin booster, whose investment firm SoftBank bought in 2017, the people said.

The investment came at the peak of the bitcoin frenzy in late 2017 after the digital currency had already risen more than 10 fold that year. The exact size of the bet couldn’t be determined, but bitcoin peaked at nearly $20,000 in mid December 2017 and Mr. Son sold in early 2018 after bitcoin had plummeted, the people said.

Bitcoin closed Monday at $5,381.05.

Mr. Son is known for quick investment decisions and big risky bets, most of which have paid off. He decided to back Alibaba Group Holding Ltd. after spending just five minutes with its founder, Jack Ma. He took a half-hour to greenlight a $200 million investment in a startup that grows vegetables indoors.

Mr. Son’s previously unreported loss shows that even some of the world’s most sophisticated and wealthiest investors got caught up in the frenzy. With a net worth estimated by Bloomberg LP at $19 billion, Mr. Son will hardly notice, though it dents his reputation as a patient and prophetic investor.

A SoftBank spokesman declined to comment on Mr. Son’s behalf.

Mr. Son was encouraged to make the investment by Peter Briger, the co-chairman of asset manager Fortress Investment Group, the people said. SoftBank bought Fortress in February 2017, inheriting the asset manager’s bitcoin reserves along with its more traditional investment funds.

Fortress under Mr. Briger first bought bitcoin in 2013, when it was still a fringe technology used mainly in the darker corners of web commerce. By the time the SoftBank deal was completed, its holdings were worth more than $150 million.

Mr. Briger declined to comment through a spokesman.

Mr. Son built SoftBank mostly on long-term technology investments and used his record to launch the $100 billion SoftBank Vision Fund. The fund, backed by the government investment fund of Saudi Arabia, owns big stakes in Uber Technologies Inc. and WeWork Cos., and has been credited with driving up valuations of some of the biggest private technology companies.

The Vision Fund is facing a test of its success with the coming initial public offering of Uber, which is aiming for a valuation of as much as $100 billion, below previous expectations but still above where the fund invested.

Even as it looks ahead to futuristic technology, SoftBank’s most immediate problem is its controlling stake in U.S. mobile phone company Sprint Corp. The 2013 deal has weighed down the conglomerate with debt, limiting its investing options.

Last week The Wall Street Journal reported that Sprint and T-Mobile’s merger had been challenged by U.S. Justice Department staff lawyers, who expressed concerns that the all-stock deal would threaten competition.

Sprint, hoping for approval, said in a regulatory filing last week: “Sprint is in a very difficult situation that is only getting worse. Sprint is not on a sustainable competitive path.”

astazangasta - @astazangasta 8 hs ago

Why do we talk about this guy as if he is some sort of genius? He lost 99% of his wealth in the first dot-com bust. The only reason he is still around is he happened to invest in Alibaba. This doesn't demonstrate anything other than that if you have enough money, it doesn't matter what you do or how stupid you are, you'll remain rich.

atomical - @atomical 10 hs ago

How I can read this without a subscription?

aphextim - @aphextim 10 hs ago

It's only a loss if he sold, HODL!

wsdfsayy - @wsdfsayy 9 hs ago

For all the perma-bears out there...Bitcoin is well off last year's low and now around $5500. Crypto has been trending up for weeks. Some top tokens like BNB (Binance's token) are at all time highs.

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