Token Daily

I don’t know much about economics, but Wikipedia tells me that the GDP for the entire country is $21.4 trillion. This deficit, if continued at this rate over a year, would be $10.4 trillion. If almost half of our GDP is based on deficit spending, shouldn’t that lead to monetary collapse or hyperinflation or something bad like that?

1

Mr_Hassel 7 hs ago

The "libertarian" president they called him. The party of "fiscal responsibility". Everytime they take office the deficit EXPLODES. I have no idea how people keep believing this shit.

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windershinwishes 5 hs ago

What does the deficit have to do with libertarianism? Does money take away your liberty?

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SeamlessR 6 hs ago

They don't believe it. They just believe people take them seriously when they say they believe it. And people do take them seriously. Because more people than not are too stupid to adequately protect themselves from targeted gaslighting.

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1

Vrenny 7 hs ago

what will be left of America once Americans get tired of the GOP destruction

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TheJedibugs :flag-ga: Georgia 7 hs ago

Hey, where all my “fiscal responsibility” republicans at??

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thegreatsquare 7 hs ago

They'll be back in January.

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ThinkOption1 7 hs ago

They don't exist any more. I no longer believe in fiscal conservatism because austerity solves nothing.

1

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1

WholeGrainMustard :flag-nj: New Jersey 7 hs ago

Don’t worry if Biden wins, the GOP will care about the deficit in November.

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goddamnzilla 8 hs ago

GOP: time to cut taxes again!

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klosnj11 8 hs ago

I would be fine with this if during better times (last three years) we underspent the budget and created a warchest for spending during things like pandemics or mass unrest. But that never happens. They go from spending more during times of trouble to spending even more when the trouble is over.

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StarWarsMonopoly 8 hs ago

That’s why Conservative fiscal policy is complete horse shit.

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Vrishkin 7 hs ago

We have too many social programs running. The US military is the largest socialized program on the planet

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FrontAppeal0 3 hs ago

Conservatives love the idea of a payroll tax holiday but refuse to contemplate a cut in entitlement spending. Similarly, a War Tax to fund the Pentagon is right out. Not the spending of course, just the paying for it. Same reason they fight over the Debt Ceiling bill but not the appropriations budget.

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ToXiC_Af_U_WeAk Somewhere between libright and libleft and authrig 4 hs ago

that's pretty ironic, considering how bad social security, insurance etc. are in the USA compared to other countries. sounds like mismanagement to me...

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Vrishkin 2 hs ago

Reminds me of that “help me balance my budget” meme

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newbrevity 7 hs ago

Yup everyone worried about social programs that help people and could elevate society then have no problem with the military industrial complex

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StarWarsMonopoly 7 hs ago

I agree. I believe in social safety nets because the alternatives have proved to be absolutely cruel. Plus even when you strive to have a complete free market solution to those problems, someone else always ends up picking up the slack while the wrongdoers pocket the difference. But there are too many pigs at the trough. The amount we pay for our military is inexcusable because so much of it is waste and corruption. The US military is also one of the largest polluters in the world (which has negative effects up and down the chain).

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KikkomanSauce 8 hs ago

On January 21, 2021, if, god willing, Biden wins, Fox, OAN, Newsmax, etc. will all being doing wall to wall coverage of how awful our national debt is, and blame "the left" for the problem.

And angry GOPers are going to eat that shit up, and take to the streets. Again.

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SenorBurns 8 hs ago

I'm tired of the fiscally irresponsible GOP. The Republicans are fat cats lighting their cigars with our hard earned tax dollars.

Then they send piles of our money to religious schools while our public schools languish.

Republicans start expensive overseas wars in countries that never attacked us. Why? So they can line the pockets of their defense contractor buddies. Meanwhile, our soldiers put in harms way barely scrape by, and our veterans care is underfunded.

Vote out all the fat cats.

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smagmite 8 hs ago

Republicans in 6 months: We've got to get spending back under control.

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gatechthrowaway1873 It's not enough to not be a communist, we must be 8 hs ago

Have to open he economy up and stop giving welfare to individuals and businesses.

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GreyInkling 7 hs ago

That's literally the smallest factor in this but ok. Sure.

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slfiftyfifty 8 hs ago

Clearly, this is a non-issue... until a democrat is in charge. Then we have to get this wreckless tax and spend problem under control immediately. Someone has to be the adult in the room and tell the democrats they cant spend money they don't have.

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gangbusters_dela 8 hs ago

Tea Party: New phone, who dis?

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notwithagoat 7 hs ago

The president is white so they're all good.

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vasilenko93 8 hs ago

That is insanity. Debt is future spending brought forward. We are talking so much wealth from the future it’s criminal.

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FrontAppeal0 4 hs ago

> Debt is future spending brought forward. It's all paper promises. Just numbers on ledgers being moved around to justify current consumption levels. What we're seeing with increasing clarity is that automation renders a great deal of human labor redundant. Full employment is only possible through make-work projects and excess waste production. The debt we're building up is just a way of convincing people who aren't needed in the business process to stay employed doing meaningless labors.

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windershinwishes 5 hs ago

No, sovereign debt it is inventing liquidity. No one is going to come repossesses America.

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me_too_999 3 hs ago

They already did. Look at the amount of land, and commercial property owned by foreigners, and foreign countries bought, and paid for with US dollars. Our grandparents built this country, but we no longer own it.

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windershinwishes 30 mins ago

Shut the fuck up racist

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me_too_999 29 mins ago

I hope you still feel that way when a bank in Europe forecloses on your house.

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StarWarsMonopoly 8 hs ago

That ship sailed with the War on Terror, unfortunately.

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FreeHongKongDingDong Vaccination Is Theft 3 hs ago

"Deficits Don't Matter" ~ Dick Cheney, 2002

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SwingingOnATire 29 mins ago

"I voted for fiscally responsible republicans because libtards want to steal my guns" - Libertarians every election

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30101961 :flag-ny: New York 8 hs ago

Reminder: The Democrats Are the Party of Fiscal Responsibility

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SwingJay1 8 hs ago

So how long until a gallon of milk will cost $35,000.00 USD?

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AGuineapigs 8 hs ago

Big government Republicans racking up debt on the credit cards again.

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 8 hs ago

Both parties supported the CARE act.

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AGuineapigs 7 hs ago

Neat.

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 7 hs ago

So why do you give one party a pass?

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SeamlessR 6 hs ago

Because one party wants it, says they want it, and act like they want it. And the other party says they don't want it, act like they don't want it, but do it anyway. Name the parties.

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 6 hs ago

>And the other party says they don't want it, act like they don't want it, but do it anyway. The bill the democrats put forward would have been much worse. It included even more costs, even less related to the direct affects of covid, and would have increased the debt even more. If your point here was that democrats tend to be less fiscally responsible then republicans, you might have made it.

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SeamlessR 5 hs ago

That is the point, yes. Democrats don't hide that's what they want. Republicans act like they want to be responsible, say we should be responsible, and then act even MORE irresponsibly than the Democrats could ever have dared approach. You don't want what democrats are selling, totally fine. You do want what republicans are selling, also totally fine. The problem is that republicans are lying to you about what they're selling. The democrats might be too but who cares? Presumably you voted republicans in to do the thing republicans said they wanted to do. But they didn't. Because they are liars. And they used you: the lied to.

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 4 hs ago

> Democrats don't hide that's what they want. Their use of the term "free" to mean "borrow" seems to suggest otherwise.

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SeamlessR 4 hs ago

You're not wrong, but you can at least figure that out by looking at the actual proposals they put forward where the actual cost is available and where it goes. Republicans literally hid where monumental emergency spending went. While also spending their whole careers railing against spending and pretending to care about transparency. Ultimately you can point towards the dems and say they're bad, but every single reason and why you could come up with also exists within the republican party. Which is a problem when republicans literal whole platform is "not that, not what the dems are doing, what they're doing? We'll do something else". Never mind that they'll just, you know, do the same thing. But with less giving a shit about anything at all.

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Mist_Rising NAP doesn't apply to sold stolen goods 2 hs ago

>You're not wrong He is wrong. When they talk about free, they dont mean to everyone. Everyone with a brain knows it, but because actually attacking the idea is impossible, they attack the wording. Anyone who looks at democratic bills knows this. The "free healthcare" has higher taxes to offset. Something those same people compaining about free will inevitable dig up because when its advantageous.

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 4 hs ago

>You're not wrong, but you can at least figure that out by looking at the actual proposals they put forward where the actual cost is available and where it goes. Like New Green Deal, which includes zero consideration of costs? Or Bernie's plan, which counts your money as government money. Or Warren's plan, which is basically "rich will pay for everything don't worry"?

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C0MMANDERD4TA 7 hs ago

Because democrats pay down the deficit when in power? Clinton ran a surplus, bush turned it into a 1.2 trillion deficit, which obama reduced to 400 billion, and trump has been blowing it up over a trillion despite a cushy economy his firsf 3 years https://www.msnbc.com/sites/msnbc/files/styles/ratio--1_91-1--1200x630/public/9.13.19.png?itok=K8ZmorXA

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-SwashY- Georgist 5 hs ago

Who was in congress at the time of surplus?

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gangbusters_dela 5 hs ago

The same party when Bush was President?

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 7 hs ago

Obama nearly doubled the federal debt, borrowing far more than Bush in total.

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C0MMANDERD4TA 6 hs ago

because he inherited a massive recession and 2 wars. its like lighting the house on fire before you move out, then blaming the next guy for the fire damage i see other redditors already brought this up and you are just straight ignoring it, so you do you

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 6 hs ago

Nope. He didn't have to pass the bailout. He didn't have to stay in those wars. He didn't have to increase social spending.

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Mist_Rising NAP doesn't apply to sold stolen goods 2 hs ago

>He didn't have to pass the bailout Busy signed the first round, dude. 800b or so.

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 2 hs ago

No shit.

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StarWarsMonopoly 6 hs ago

Because he put the Afghan and Iraq War on the budget finally. Bush went his whole administration without offially paying for a single dollar of the War on Terror. It didn’t even count against the deficit until the Congress voted to do so in 2009.

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 6 hs ago

None of this changes the fact that the federal debt nearly double under his presidency.

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Mist_Rising NAP doesn't apply to sold stolen goods 2 hs ago

So if Congress passed a bill in 2010, then said you nslinkns24 were to take all credit for the problem later, that's on you? Don't be disengenious.

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 2 hs ago

Your sentence is incoherent

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windershinwishes 5 hs ago

And what about the mountain of stimulus spending that occurred in the immediate months after his inauguration, which was in response to a financial crisis that built up and exploded during Bush’s administration?

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 4 hs ago

Like I said, both parties are responsible for driving up the US debt. Jesus. Do you people read?

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StarWarsMonopoly 6 hs ago

Apparently you don’t agree adding two wars to the national debt would increase it?

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nullsignature Neoliberal 6 hs ago

Or a recession...

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 6 hs ago

That doesn't follow, no.

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StarWarsMonopoly 7 hs ago

Because one party claims to hate socialism yet ends up solving all their major problems with socialism? Being idealistic but misguided is one sin, but being complete hypocrites for decades is inexcusable.

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Mist_Rising NAP doesn't apply to sold stolen goods 2 hs ago

This. Isnt. Socialism.

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 7 hs ago

I'm less concerned with purity of their intentions than the soundness of their policies

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StarWarsMonopoly 7 hs ago

Which means you don’t really stand for anything. If you’re willing to support and cuddle up to unethical people to get what you want (say a measly $2000 in a tax cut), I don’t know what else to tell you other than your integrity is able to be put on hold for a cheap price.

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 7 hs ago

>Which means you don’t really stand for anything. I stand for plenty of things. But I'm not going to buy that the democrats are taking some high minded stance here or on much of anything else. Both parties need to stop putting future generations in debt. Period.

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StarWarsMonopoly 7 hs ago

You still implied that the GOP policies are more sound, which belies the reality that their policies do not work and lead to tax payers taking the hit while the private sector continues on unscathed. Unless you’d like to stand against printing trillions while we have the President in office who’s supposed to be running this like a business?

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 6 hs ago

> You still implied that the GOP policies are more sound I did no such thing. I simply said that both parties are advocating for the same policy here, and both are wrong to do so and deserve criticism. Then the democratic apologists come along.

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Mr_Hassel 7 hs ago

Because one party is in charge and they were gonna pass it anyway with or without the other one.

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Mist_Rising NAP doesn't apply to sold stolen goods 2 hs ago

>Because one party is in charge Since all bills regarding budget originate in the House, you apparnetly think democratic party is in charge..

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nslinkns24 "absolutely the worst person I've seen in this sub 7 hs ago

The fact is that dems voted for it, meaning they would have supported it even if they were in charge.

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JoesPartyDepot 8 hs ago

Meanwhile, the Dow Jones is up 500 points today because pharmaceutical corporations are gouging people and making a killing.

Disgusting.

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MarshallGibsonLP :flag-tx: Texas 8 hs ago

At this point the DJIA is completely detached from the health of the economy. It's nothing more than an off-track betting site. And if we're being honest, we should stop referring to it when discussing how the economy is doing. The reason it is so popular is that the media, and American people by extension need a simple number they can reduce everything down to.

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Karrde2100 8 hs ago

11% unemployment seems pretty simple As does $850 billion/month deficit... :(

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GirlGroupUnderground 8 hs ago

That job rejection I got from Gilead a few months back is really stinging right now.

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Mayor_Minderbinder 8 hs ago

Where my Tea Party fiscal patreets at?

trump has added $6,500,000,000,000 to the national debt since 1/20/17 and not a fucking peep about it from Fox News.

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mikelisse :flag-ny: New York 6 hs ago

> “Nobody is a fiscal conservative anymore,” Limbaugh shot back. “All this talk about concern for the deficit and the budget has been bogus for as long as it’s been around.” This is Rush Limbaugh’s response to a caller who was concerned about Trump not being a true fiscal conservative because the deficit was going to reach $1 trillion.

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latouchefinale 8 hs ago

The ICU?

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StupendousMan1995 :flag-ny: New York 8 hs ago

Hiding behind their racism over in another sub, I guess...

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TheVenetianMask 8 hs ago

Patting each other on the back for eating fast food is their latest theme.

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YgramulTheMany 8 hs ago

Thank you small government fiscal conservatives.

“And the frog said to the snake, ‘why did you bite me? Now we shall both die!”

And the snake said “because I’m a fucking snake.”

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EHorstmann :flag-ct: Connecticut 8 hs ago

Party of fiscal conservatives my ass.

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StupendousMan1995 :flag-ny: New York 9 hs ago

Federal spending rose to more than $1.1 trillion in June, more than twice what the U.S. government spends in a typical month. The amount of tax revenue collected by the federal government remained largely flat, at about $240 billion, in part because the Treasury Department delayed the tax filing deadline until July. The huge surge in June pushed the budget deficit for the first nine months of the fiscal year to $2.7 trillion.

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outline_link_bot 1 h ago

Fracking Firms Fail, Rewarding Executives and Raising Climate Fears

Decluttered version of this New York Times's article archived on July 13, 2020 can be viewed on https://outline.com/wVA2wL

1

MortWellian 1 h ago

https://archive.is/lT7ED

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outline_link_bot 3 hs ago

Fracking Firms Fail, Rewarding Executives and Raising Climate Fears

Decluttered version of this New York Times's article archived on July 13, 2020 can be viewed on https://outline.com/wVA2wL

1

SuborbitalQuail Cypress County 3 hs ago

Relevant to Alberta, given that the exact same thing is happening here.

Still, as these businesses collapse, millions of dollars have flowed to executive compensation.

Whiting Petroleum, a major shale driller in North Dakota that sought bankruptcy protection in April, approved almost $15 million in cash bonuses for its top executives six days before its bankruptcy filing. Chesapeake Energy, a shale pioneer, declared bankruptcy last month, just weeks after it paid $25 million in bonuses to a group of executives. And Diamond Offshore Drilling secured a $9.7 million tax refund under the Covid-19 stimulus bill Congress passed in March, before filing to reorganize in bankruptcy court the next month. Then it won approval from a bankruptcy judge to pay its executives the same amount, as cash incentives.

“It seems outrageous that these executives pay themselves before filing for bankruptcy,” said Kathy Hipple, an analyst at the Institute for Energy Economics and Financial Analysis and a finance professor at Bard College. “These are the same managers who ran these companies into bankruptcy to begin with,” she said.

These companies are not here to make Alberta better, they are here to make as much money as possible before running away.

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flyingflail 1 h ago

Any source for Alberta companies doing the same thing? Probably not because it hasn't happened yet.

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SamIwas118 1 h ago

Time to start charging up front for cleanup say $20,000,000 before drilling can start.

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aZamaryk 5 hs ago

Yup, what’s new. Capitalism at its best.

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mikeyouse 7 hs ago

And the head of some oil & gas lobbying group sent the reporter a racist message when she published this article.. delightful group of people defending this.

https://twitter.com/HirokoTabuchi/status/1282702008148000769

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stefeyboy 7 hs ago

What the fuck

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vectorama 9 hs ago

Tbh, I don’t care what the cost is if it means the end of fossil fuels and the government subsidized fossil fuel industry. I’d gladly give $5k today out of my own pocket to move forward from this BS!

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AmberMolly 9 hs ago

they should all be legally and personally liable to pay for cleanup from their personal funds and/or do hard time for environmental terrorism and other crimes. asset forfeiture if necessary. this is serious

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very_green_jay 9 hs ago

It should be possible to go after the millionaires filing for bankruptcy and getting the restoration costs out of their deep pockets.theh should be sued and considered directly responsible of the damage they caused

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silence7 9 hs ago

The millionaires aren't filing for bankruptcy; it's the companies. An inherent feature of corporations is limited liability - you can't go after the personal assets of the investors for the sins of the company. It *might* be possible to target management, but that requires that there be political support. If you want that, you're going to need to create it.

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CAulds Sainte-Marie-de-Kent 9 hs ago

Aren't we glad, now, that we rejected fracking (by a Texas-based company) in our own province?

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outline_link_bot 10 hs ago

Fracking Firms Fail, Rewarding Executives and Raising Climate Fears

Decluttered version of this New York Times's article archived on July 13, 2020 can be viewed on https://outline.com/wVA2wL

1

Miserygut 11 hs ago

As long as pollution is treated as an externality rather than an integral part of doing business, this is going to keep happening.

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runnriver 11 hs ago

Consider EPA regulations on site-remediation.

While the companies may hurtle toward bankruptcy, their assets remain below the ground.

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SlitScan 11 hs ago

its the Alberta Way

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machine_yearning 11 hs ago

Are we great yet?

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outline_link_bot 12 hs ago

Fracking Firms Fail, Rewarding Executives and Raising Climate Fears

Decluttered version of this New York Times's article archived on July 13, 2020 can be viewed on https://outline.com/wVA2wL

1

Phroneo 11 hs ago

Shocking. And the foolish humans figures over which words to change in Linux to avoid offending anyone. Not going to be anyone left to offend.

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pimpwagen 12 hs ago

It’s true. This is how anything in the environmental industry works, unfortunately. A facility might run out of compliance for years and then when it’s time for the law to strike down they close up and abandon because they suddenly “can’t afford it.” That’s why the energy and chemical sectors have $1.6 billion in taxes, because the government cleans up their messes.

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Schwachsinn 11 hs ago

you can leave out the "environmental" part there. It's how capitalism works, at least nowadays. Almost none of the jobs in the western world actually *produce something* and result in profit. Profit almost always was created because the costs for environment and society resulting from natural exploitation don't need to be paid, because Gaia can't sue.

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cotisol_politics 12 hs ago

give their subsidies to clean energy, please.

3

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outline_link_bot 13 hs ago

Fracking Firms Fail, Rewarding Executives and Raising Climate Fears

Decluttered version of this New York Times's article archived on July 13, 2020 can be viewed on https://outline.com/wVA2wL

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outline_link_bot 16 hs ago

Fracking Firms Fail, Rewarding Executives and Raising Climate Fears

Decluttered version of this New York Times's article archived on July 13, 2020 can be viewed on https://outline.com/wVA2wL

4

stefeyboy 16 hs ago

Full Text: http://archive.is/UxeZt

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eyewhycue2 19 hs ago

How is those allowed? Why is no one taking them to account?

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GrandDukePosthumous 18 hs ago

It's the corporation which did the crime, the poor innocent executives who had total control over the corporation are helpless victims in all of this. They ask that you not judge them in this difficult time for them, and offer campaign contributions to any member of congress who sympathises with their plight.

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CTownerIsGarbage 5 hs ago

More selfish anarchist nonsense. Get over yourself.

BTW bitcoin doesn't protect shit any more than gold does.

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VampireVlad 2 hs ago

Except that gold takes a lot of space to store (assuming that you care about this and don't choose to trust a third party custodian), is heavy, costs a lot to verify, can't be checked against the total global supply, takes a lot of effort to move across borders, and has previously been banned and confiscated by the US government. It's really great thanks to its scarcity and long history of keeping national economies stable, it still is a great way to hedge against inflation, but it's very impractical in some regards.

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AKeveryday 4 hs ago

It actually does. The government can come and physically take your gold pile if they wanted. They cannot take bitcoin.

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lobopt 4 hs ago

Theoretically they can, if they manage to break btc encryption algorithm...

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AKeveryday 3 hs ago

Sure in theory. They can also shutdown the internet too.

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Mark_Bear 9 hs ago

Please keep in mind, we don't get our rights from the government. Rather, the government's only legitimate powers are given to it, by the people, that is, the consent of the governed.

The Constitution does not give rights to the people -- read it, you'll see. The Constitution enumerates the few legitimate powers the government has (along with describing the executive, legislative, and judicial branches).

The Bill of Rights does not give us our rights. Rather, it expressly prohibits the government from violating our rights and from seizing powers not specifically granted to it.

So, where do our rights come from? We are born with them. If/when the government becomes abusive enough, we have the right, the duty to replace it.

Keep that in mind.

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VampireVlad 9 hs ago

I wholeheartedly agree, but at the same time our forefathers have consented to institutionalize everything under the protection of this government that we're having. They made sure we wouldn't think about replacing it for rational and practical reasons, but instead constantly appeal to said institutions, cast our vote every electoral cycle and then hope for the best. My grandparents have seen it happen when they were children, when you get a communist and atheist government: when communists take over, there are no God-given rights. You're basically at the mercy of their ideology and rely on your ability to make friends within the higher-ranked officials. Hope you're going to do better in America, it would be a shame to let it all go to waste and have it replaced by a tyranny of communists.

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Mark_Bear 8 hs ago

Just because somebody is breaking the speed limit it does not mean there is no speed limit. Similarly, people in Hong Kong have rights. When some Chinese dickhead is VIOLATING their rights, they still have those rights - they cannot be taken from us, but they can be violated. I hope we do better, too, but most people are intellectually lazy, weak-minded, and brainwashed. They probably won't bother to make a stand until it's way beyond too late... unless there are food shortages, for example. So, it's important to know about our rights and to stick up for people who are having their rights violated.

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CryptoMods Bronze 10 hs ago

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