Token Daily

It's a good test for the Constitutional Court. Time to see if they'll respect the Constitution or not. As Tutanota said, given how the bill is written it'll be hard for it to pass with the current Constitution.

To others in this thread, don't forget something : it's "only" a proposed bill (it's bad enough, we can agree) but it didn't pass and it's not even in talk yet. These kind of bills is in fact very interesting to see how the justice react to that. Either they keep to protect citizen or they allow those kind of stuff little by little.

It's important to have these kind of "test" to see if the justice is still in our side our if they changed. Germany have pretty privacy law, I expect them to put that stuff aside. We'll see...

For our € brethren, it's also important to follow that. Germany has a strong impact in the EU privacy, as long as they're still protecting privacy EU will still go in a good path. When it begin to change... Well... This won't be so good.

1

Sandor_Clegane1 2 hs ago

Well i guess when Angela Merkel spoke about german history and how we should learn from it, she conveniently forgot about something...

3

nadmaximus 3 hs ago

The linked article does not indicate that this is referring to trojans, nor is it on user devices.

1

iseedeff 4 hs ago

Easy Fix Clean the Trojans off and Send them to all Antivirus Companies Globally. THAT will teach those Fuckers.

1

subarun7 5 hs ago

There are a lots of relay node in Germany. I'm worried about them.

3

Aristocrafied 5 hs ago

Everyone acting surprised like they all forgot what Snowden revealed.

2

Alcobob Germany 5 hs ago

The new law would force internet service providers (ISPs) to install government hardware at their data centers which would reroute data to law enforcement

If a new law is required for this, then how was it possible that the secret service already has hardware in the largest internet exchange of the world (DECIX) for at least a decade?

No, the actual new thing is that it allows the use of trojans to "intercept" communication before it is encrypted in the users phone.

Which, to everybody that knows IT and law, should be a giant warning sign. As installing software on somebodies phone means that you modify the phone and necessarily have full access to it, thus a malicious actor can also "create evidence", which logically means that the phone itself and all the data is tainted as evidence and cannot be used in court.

10

MindlessVegetation Germany 4 hs ago

> tainted as evidence and cannot be used in court. Assuming the state would give the slightest bit of a damn.

6

mrHoohs Slovenia 6 hs ago

well that's terrible. and here i was a couple days ago, complimenting germany's privacy laws, regarding this corona tracking app

all good things must come to an end, i suppose

5

Merkels_Booty 6 hs ago

I hope they catch a lot of child porn crooks with this. Germany seems to be their place.

0

kteof Bulgaria 5 hs ago

What they will do is sell devices with backdoors that will eventually leak so bad people will exploit them. Think Germany installs back doors on devices, Russia and China get to spy on Germans using the same system as soon as their spies get the keys which would be within a week I expect. And of course then that leaks further into regular criminal hacker hands and so on.

1

keppana5 5 hs ago

The backdoors are already there.

1

MontagueRamblefield Earth 8 hs ago

Preparing for the fourth reich I presume...

0

Beertronic Yesterday

Not sure the touch screen will work wrapped in a condom.

0

PinkNinja_14 Yesterday

so dumb

2

OpLapDancePikachu69 Yesterday

Is Tutanota service affected by this? I understand they are based in Germany

8

Verethra 1 h ago

Already answered >This is a disastrous legislative proposal, which we clearly reject. As it is very vaguely worded, it is not clear whether only Internet providers or also email providers would be affected if the proposal were adopted. >We assume, however, that the proposal will not be adopted. If it should, we expect it to be overturned by the Federal Constitutional Court, as such far-reaching surveillance measures are not compatible with the German Constitution. u/Tutanota

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Avron7 Yesterday

Someone posted this question in r/tutanota, but no response yet. Maybe check later? https://reddit.com/r/tutanota/comments/hoa03u/new_german_law_would_force_isps_to_redirect/

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OpLapDancePikachu69 11 hs ago

Thanks for sending that. Kind’ve annoying cuz I just switched to them and then this happens

4

Avron7 1 h ago

Tutanota has responded, if you haven’t seen it yet. > This is a disastrous legislative proposal, which we clearly reject. As it is very vaguely worded, it is not clear whether only Internet providers or also email providers would be affected if the proposal were adopted. >We assume, however, that the proposal will not be adopted. If it should, we expect it to be overturned by the Federal Constitutional Court, as such far-reaching surveillance measures are not compatible with the [German Constitution](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grundrecht_auf_Gew%C3%A4hrleistung_der_Vertraulichkeit_und_Integrit%C3%A4t_informationstechnischer_Systeme).

2

keppana5 Yesterday

Few years down the line and they'll be using it to help chop people up like the saudis, I presume.

0

Strel0ka Yesterday

I guess VPN providers won't be useless anymore. Though I wonder how they want to "inject on-the-fly custom patches into files downloaded" if most of the traffic is at least encrypted via SSL, anyway. DPI only goes this far, afaik.

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fuckthisatfuckyou 4 hs ago

They would need access to the certificates or at least one root certificate to MITM I guess. Otherwise, there is plenty of traffic that goes over http still... I would imagine that the idea is to be able to redirect the traffic to be able to analyse vulnerabilities and inject cheap but effective payloads. They mention installing hardware at the ISP so this could very-well be mobile data centric but not necessarily. There must be economic incentives at play - by going this route they can probably have greater access to a wider range of devices at a minimal cost than say using targetted attacks with expensive zero-days. The targetted attacks are obviously still possible, but this kind of infrastructure would allow for a lazier, more automated wider net that could use published vulnerabilities on unpatched devices a la metasploit. Edit: vpn providers were never useless though as far as I am concerned so I have to disagree about that: 1. You have more choice over VPN providers than you do over ISP's and it may be easier to find a trustworthy VPN provider than ISP. 2. You can give less information to a private VPN service than your ISP - this can go as far as paying in cash and providing not even an email address to be identified with. 3. Your VPN provider may not keep logs, but your ISP may be required to keep your traffic logs for years by the local laws. 4. You benefit from access to more privacy-respecting and censorship-free jurisdictions 5. You benefit from avoiding region-locked content 6. You benefit from protection from DMCA and media/recording industry attacks 7. You conceal your location from websites and services by avoiding IP-based location tracking 8. You are protected when using public networks from local attacks 9. You are protected from online targetting (eg. gamers who get DOS'd by other gamers who got their real IP from peer-to-peer connection logs) 10. You benefit from reduced internet tracking by providing less personally-identifiable information (such as home IP address)

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Reddit-Interests Yesterday

Is this possibly a response to the U.S.’ EARN IT act? Any tech-savvy person who could explain implications of this?

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wdroz Yesterday

That's why we need https and DNS-over-https everywhere

0

kteof Bulgaria 5 hs ago

Government level actors can generally get trusted certificates for MIDM attacks, so https doesn't help. It's still pretty effective against most attackers, just not some of the more powerful governments.

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keppana5 Yesterday

That doesn't prevent these. The problem is in the end-user devices. See the Pegasus spyware and the morocco(?) case. Basically end user devices come filled with backdoors and vulnerabilities.

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Wiedzemir Saxony-Anhalt (Germany) Yesterday

How would it help if a trojan is on your device?

4

mkvgtired Yesterday

No wonder Merkel was comparing Germany to China. I guess they have more in common than I thought.

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MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) Yesterday

We don't have much in common with China in this regard. The legal use of these tools would be (if it will even be allowed by our constitutional court) very limited. There is a catalog of severe crimes that this can be used for, it can not be used for minor crimes. It will certainly not be used to target dissendents. If I recall correctly, your intelligence agencies use similar tools, just with less oversight.

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HrabiaVulpes Complains-about-everything 4 hs ago

Let's be rational, it will be used anytime they can. Not because some authoritarian political bullshit, but because it's optimal. After all you can just file every single person as suspected paedophile and start invigilating them. In 90% of time you will find something you can arrest or fine them for, 1% of time it will be what you originally looked for. Thus your Police gets rewarded for taking "preventive measures" because they now catch more people.

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MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) 4 hs ago

You should read the law then. The scenario you are presenting is not plausible under this law. Also, there are strict limits on using evidence won in this way for other crimes detected there. Most of the time, it cannot be used in court.

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HrabiaVulpes Complains-about-everything 3 hs ago

Let me ask you about an edge case - I'm a tester being irritiating is part of my job. I also suck at German language (learning English instead) so please bear with my nitpicking. Let's say a lone man living near school is suspected of paedophilia. They start invigilating him (because I assume it's big enough of a crime to justify it) and find out he is not a paedophile but he sells drugs to people in the other part of the town. Through invigilation on suspected paedophilia Police learned where and when he will trade drugs next. Can they use this evidence (e-mails about drugs) to bust him by waiting exactly where and when he will trade under German law? It's not technically evidence they invigilated him for...

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MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) 3 hs ago

Let me start by saying that you are conflating two different things here. The law the article talks about is not for our police, but for our intelligence agencies. Assuming that you would limit the case to these intelligence agencies, this is one of the instances where the "fruit of the poisonous tree"-doctrine applies in Germany. They would not be allowed to use the information gained to bust someone for low-level drug sales. Information of this kind can only be used for other crimes listed in the specific law mentioned here. Those are very high-level crimes. The only drug crime that would be able to be followed here would be major cases of drug trafficking into the EU/Germany. Sexual abuse of minors (pedophilia itself is not a crime) is not one of the crimes listed in this law by the way.

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HrabiaVulpes Complains-about-everything 2 hs ago

That was very informative, or at least for me. Thank you and happy cake day!

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MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) 2 hs ago

Any time and thank you!

1

delta9t 5 hs ago

That is so f-ing naive...Its always the same with security laws: first its "severe crimes" to get people to allow it... that will be extendet to "minor crimes", soon. And god help us if a right wing government comes into power.

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soztech Österreich 7 hs ago

> It will certainly not be used to target dissendents. Right! Why would politicians ever do that? It's not like the last president of the BfV was literally kicked out for disagreeing with god chancellor Merkel, oh wait, HE WAS. And shortly after that mass investigation into the AfD started. Funny coincidence.

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Camelgatorade99 8 hs ago

>It will certainly not be used to target dissendents It will be used for anyone associated with the AfD and anyone else that Merkel views as political competition.

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MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) 4 hs ago

Yeah... no.

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jebanehaslo 0 points 7 minutes ago Yesterday

Because police always obeys law.

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MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) 4 hs ago

This is not about the police. But yeah, the police can only use tools of this kind with judge oversight.

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neohellpoet Croatia 5 hs ago

They don't, but then having a law that says it is legal in some instances doesn't really change anything. The surprising thing here is that the German government is actually doing this how it's supposed to be done. It's getting approval from the legislative branch and putting it under court oversight. Just like any other form of invasive searches. Most countries don't bother and just use these methods with no checks. If caught, they claim they didn't need to ask for permission. Worst possible outcome, they get told not to do it again. And sure, people will break the rules, but at least there are rules to be broken, vs simply being able to state that, given that this is a legal gray area, the relevant agency acted in a manner they considered legal and there's nothing saying that it wasn't. Every single law we have exists because people break it. We don't have rules concerning things that people don't do and we don't make laws assuming that once the law is passed it will never be broken. We have laws to clearly spell out what is and what isn't allowed so that we know when someone does bug a suspect in a minor crime we can point to the law that say it's not legal.

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ahmetakkus 6 hs ago

Well duh, their job is to make people obey the law, don't you think it would look bad if they didn't obey the law themselves?

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kenbw2 United Kingdom Yesterday

You appear to credit them with a lot of blind trust

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MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) 4 hs ago

Not really. I trust in our judiciary.

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mkvgtired Yesterday

Merkel seemed to think Germany and China have a lot in common. At least she thought so when she was assuring China there would be no consequences for their actions.

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MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) Yesterday

Where did Merkel give such an assurance?

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mkvgtired Yesterday

>German Chancellor Angela Merkel isn’t about to join President Donald Trump in a pressure campaign against China. >Merkel even likened China’s success to Germany’s — “as was the case in Germany, [China’s] rise is largely based on hard work, creativity and technical skills.” From the linked FT article: >This is the “firm conviction” that guides her: the pursuit of “the best win-win situations . . . when partnerships of benefit to both sides are put into practice worldwide”. This is what we have been trying since 2001 when China joined the WTO. It's commitments were supposed to be met by 2006, To this day the vast majority are not. She made these assurances after the Chinese ambassador to China threatened car exports and while German car manufacturers are benefiting from concentration camp forced labor in Xinjiang. I guess #NeverAgain only applies if it takes no effort and has no cost. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/merkel-makes-clear-she-wont-join-trump-in-challenging-china-2020-01-16

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MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) Yesterday

Essentially nobody is joining Trump in his pressure campaign against China because he shits on the international order. Trump would have found a formidable ally in Europe against China if he didn't make the idiotic move to attack us at the same time. We could see Europe unite forces with the US against China in the post-trump era. Let's see. Should Trump lose, Merkel will be in office for about 9-12 months after the inauguration of Biden.

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Camelgatorade99 8 hs ago

>Essentially nobody is joining Trump in his pressure campaign against China India has and they are far larger and more powerful than Germany, as has Australia. As would Germany if it had even slightly competent leadership. Also, Merkel fixates on Trump far more than Trump worries about her. Merkel was lashing out at Trump before he even took office and Merkel lashes out at Trump more than she does, Xi, Putin, Erdogan, Assad, Iran and ISIS combined. That is not a very reliable ally.

0

MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) 4 hs ago

India is not "more powerful" on the international stage than Germany. Plus India and Australia have a different incentive to act against China. Merkel doesn't really lash out much at trump. You are talking out of your ass.

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Le_Updoot_Army Yesterday

Not true, UK, Canada and Australia are giving refuge to HK'ers just like the US. Germany has a recent history of letting migrants seeking asylum in. Why not do something similar for HK?

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MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) 4 hs ago

[Merkel: Right of asylum available to all, including people of Hong Kong](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-hongkong-germany/merkel-right-of-asylum-available-to-all-including-people-of-hong-kong-idUSKBN2432HS) There were no special programs for allowing asylum seekers in. If HKers apply, they will be dealt with according to our laws.

1

mkvgtired Yesterday

>Trump would have found a formidable ally in Europe against China if he didn't make the idiotic move to attack us at the same time. This is very naive. Why would Europe not unilaterally take action against China's concentration camps and clam down on Hong Kong if it would have been such a "formidable" ally. Merkel committed to doing the exact same thing everyone has been doing for 30 years that we know does not work. That hardly sends the right message. Trump is an idiot but let's not excuse the ineptitude of other countries. I think you are underestimating the lengths Germany would go to protect its auto industry. We might see some action if China's demand collapses, but absent that I have zero faith Germany will take any meaningful action. Obviously I hope I'm wrong.

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MarktpLatz Lower Saxony (Germany) 4 hs ago

You are picking the two worst examples. We are able to accomplish things on trade, intellectual ownership etc. with our tools. Nobody will be able to do anything should china invade HK or not close its camps. Nobody is going to go to war over this.

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mkvgtired 57 mins ago

>We are able to accomplish things on trade, intellectual ownership etc. with our tools How specifically? China has tons of obligations on trade and IP it has yet to meet under it's WTO agreement. Many of these are almost 20 years overdue. How specifically would you get them to comply with agreements they have already made? >Nobody will be able to do anything should china invade HK or not close its camps. We could certainly make it much more costly to do so. You don't believe Germany has any obligation to take measures against forced concentration camp labor German car companies are directly benefiting from? >You are picking the two worst examples And why shouldn't these be part of the discussion? They are ongoing problems relating to the relationship yet they are completely ignored because of money. Highlighting and elevating the largest problems with US society is a German national pastime yet when China is running the largest concentration camp network for ethnic minorities since the Nazis or dismantling a city-state's sovereignty, Germans not only want to look the other way your leaders are showering the administration doing so with praise. So sure, you could say "if you ignore the countless trade violations, intellectual property theft, illegal subsidies, forced concentration camp labor, dismantling Hong Kong sovereignty, illegal South China Sea islands, continual threats and attacks on its neighbors, debt trap diplomacy, forced intellectual property transfers, hostile company takeovers, threats to invade and annex Taiwan, the factor foreign listed Chinese companies do not follow local laws, and China's laws encourage fraud on foreign markets, the relationship is great" I would probably have to agree. I would argue that those things are major enough not to simply brush over though.

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keppana5 Yesterday

You're naiive or dishonest.

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mkvgtired 1 h ago

How so? Germany needs the US to hold it's hand to denounce concentration camp forced labor or take action against it. Forced labor that is benefiting German companies. Japan, India, Canada, Australia, the UK, etc. have all taken unilateral action against China without the US holding their hand. Germany could if it wanted to as well. The fact of the matter is Merkel cares more about car exports than Concentration camp forced labor. Which is fine, but she should not be so quick to denounce the US for actually doing something.

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keppana5 9 mins ago

Any more administration messaging you'd like to blindly repeat?

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keppana5 Yesterday

This. It's ridiculous to expect Germany/Merkel to ally with this US admin when all US has done for the last 3.5 years is to sow as much division in Europe as possible.

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mkvgtired Yesterday

Why does Germany or the EU have to ally with anyone to take meaningful action against concentration camp forced labor, illegal subsidies that hurt European companies, and the theft of European intellectual property?

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stifrojasl Yesterday

You are correct. We should take action against the the USA for their use of slave black labors in their prison or at their southern border. When do we start?

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mkvgtired Yesterday

Go for it. But if you failed to enact similar measures against China given the far larger scale you would look like massive hypocrites.

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keppana5 Yesterday

Those arent things US currently gives a shit about. He's just looking to play participants against each other so he can betray and backstab them in order to gain something for himself. Best way to deal with with this morally bankrupt administration is not to participate in their games, because only thing they care is their own advantage.

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Camelgatorade99 8 hs ago

Trump has done more to reign in China than any other leader, anywhere. If you disagree, name someone that has done more and tell me what they have done. Trump has implemented sanctions over Hong Kong and just sent two carrier groups to the South China sea to stop China in one of its latest territory grabs. He has lead the world on reigning in their trade abuse and is holding them accountable for their virus that they knowingly sent all over the globe and continue to run a disinformation campaign on. He outlawed Huawei. What has Merkel done to reign in China? I do not think she has even sent them a strongly worded letter or lashed out at them 1/10 as much as she lashes out at Trump.

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mkvgtired Yesterday

Even if everything you say is true, China constantly back stabs Europe as well. This literally has nothing to do with trump or the US. The UK, Canada, Australia, India, Japan, etc. suggest unilateral action against China is possible. Also the US has passed meaningful legislation on Hong Kong and Uighurs.

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Wiedzemir Saxony-Anhalt (Germany) Yesterday

The hell are you blabbering about?

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mkvgtired Yesterday

>German Chancellor Angela Merkel isn’t about to join President Donald Trump in a pressure campaign against China. >Merkel even likened China’s success to Germany’s — “as was the case in Germany, [China’s] rise is largely based on hard work, creativity and technical skills.” From the linked FT article: >This is the “firm conviction” that guides her: the pursuit of “the best win-win situations . . . when partnerships of benefit to both sides are put into practice worldwide”. This is what we have been trying since 2001 when China joined the WTO. It's commitments were supposed to be met by 2006, To this day the vast majority are not. She made these assurances after the Chinese ambassador to China threatened car exports and while German car manufacturers are benefiting from concentration camp forced labor in Xinjiang. I guess #NeverAgain only applies if it takes no effort and has no cost. https://www.marketwatch.com/story/merkel-makes-clear-she-wont-join-trump-in-challenging-china-2020-01-16

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Bigmacoroni69 Yesterday

The stasi and Gestapo would have loved this

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Karma-Sage Yesterday

I doubt it. There are already laws against it.

0

teketabi Yesterday

Freeedom!

0

ourari Yesterday

15

ButItMightJustWork Yesterday

These plans make me so mad at all the politicians and people in power who - have these ideas - help implementing them (developers, operators, financial backers, etc) - vote for this crap I feel like we really lost humanity...

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Verethra 1 h ago

It has not passed yet. But I do understand your point, particularly the second and third. Having those kind of idea isn't new, we always had people like that and it won't change. I'm however really desperate to see my fellow citizen accepting that kind of stuff... They can be quite vocal about foreign dictatorship, but when it's about their country they can be quite blind.

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yippiekyo Yesterday

Unfortunately, that's the only thing German policymakers can come up with nowadays; a clear representation how their minds and grasp of reality function. Poor are those Germans who cannot just simply pack their belongings and get the way out of that soon-to-be basket case. What a shame/sham!

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1

MatthewThoughts Yesterday

I have removed my last submission and replaced with this one as it is an English link.

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There is a discussion on Hacker News, but feel free to comment here as well.

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4

19 2

Schroedingers_Gnat 32 mins ago

An act of war by asshole Uzbekistan. We will commence bombardment with our catapults.

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worldtraveler19 40 mins ago

Get fucked OP. Stop acting like Beijing's stooge.

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Norwedditor 1 h ago

Are you a chinese bot? Nice post history dude.

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Dopebox81 1 h ago

Aw get fucked

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jayman419 1 h ago

It seems like it's not "unknown" (the term China's Embassy used) but rather it's "unspecified".

It added the "unspecified" pneumonia classification followed World Health Organization guidelines "for the registration of pneumonia when the coronavirus infection is diagnosed clinically or epidemiologically but is not confirmed by laboratory testing."

1

tool101 1 h ago

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Jezzdit 1 h ago

ooh look!! a baby mountain goat!

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BelCantoTenor 2 hs ago

Just like China said about COVID....it’s nothing, look away...these aren’t the droids you are looking for. Well, I smell a rat.

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Suyodhana 2 hs ago

Seems like China spoke out too soon again.

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Dullahene 2 hs ago

Reddit: China didn't speak out early enough Also Reddit: China spoke out too soon >Seems like China spoke out too soon again. So you admit their response to coronavirus was timely?

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hellrete 2 hs ago

As much as I hate to admit it. Yea.

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Rojas561 1 h ago

I wouldn’t trust u/dullahene. Comment and post history just seems like a shill for China. Account is only 60 days old as well...

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hellrete 1 h ago

Even a broken clock is right 2 times / day. Don't get me wrong stating 1 truth doesn't make a dent in me liking the CCP.

1

Rojas561 56 mins ago

I’m going to have to steal that saying. Definitely, just a heads up on the user

1

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1

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1

Pale_Leader 3 hs ago

Great now I gotta worry about this too

1

Skarsgarde 3 hs ago

Downvoting because you have such a trash title here compared to what’s actually in the article

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iChinguChing 5 hs ago

"CNN has been unable to independently verify the Chinese Embassy report and has reached out to Kazakhstan's Ministry of Healthcare for further details."

I am thinking this is a diversion.

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fitzroy95 4 hs ago

or just another Covid outbreak reported slightly hysterically

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ahm713 5 hs ago

I remember when coronavirus first emerged with videos of Wuhan hospitals, I quickly said it is bullshit and probably sensationalized. And here we are :/

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snek2go 4 hs ago

They dug up the roads! **dug. up. the. roads.**

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Mkwdr 5 hs ago

I wonder how many stories like this just got no publicity last year and disappeared without any of us noticing.

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90thMinute 5 hs ago

News sources are businesses that survive off of getting clicks. Now is a prime time for disease related clicks from scared consumers

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Trivo3 4 hs ago

And knowing that, here we are, you and me... providing more clicks :)

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okibums 5 hs ago

Can this year get any worse?

0

writemeow 5 hs ago

There it is...

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Little_vegemite 5 hs ago

Well fuck.

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1 3

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AvocadosAreMeh 2 hs ago

I’ve delivered to their building. Unless they built a gate, hired security, and put it up at all 3 entrances it’s kind of a PR leak to start putting its users in a negative predatory light rather than themselves

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penningfly 8 hs ago

Every time I see this fucking guy's face, I want to punch it. And I don't even have a RH account..

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favouregb 9 hs ago

😂😂

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DEATHROW_ELITE Yesterday

Just read an article on this, it's not different than a casino, cant tell you how many times I've had to fix slot machines from people breaking then because they lost their money. This is no different, people lose money on stonks and they need someone to blame besides themselves.

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jonsparks Yesterday

Trading stocks is not anything like gambling in a casino. It’s all the options trades that people are getting into because RH makes it too easy for them to get approved.

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CardinalNumber Former moderator Yesterday

It's all gambling when you don't know wtf you're doing.

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DEATHROW_ELITE Yesterday

Thank you haha

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ShaJune97 Yesterday

Exactly!!! Have a plan of some sort. Stock market doesn't take no prisoners.

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DEATHROW_ELITE Yesterday

Trading stocks does have some gambling tendencies, doesnt exactly reflect a casino but they're there.

3

TheWackyIraqi Yesterday

It's like 60% luck.

3

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1

DimesOnHisEyes Yesterday

Crazy people do crazy things.

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LilC00kieMonstar Yesterday

Like invest in bitcoin :P

3

luminiram 56 mins ago

Or speculate on stocks…crazy!

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DimesOnHisEyes Yesterday

That's definitely one thing.

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smungung Yesterday

If they used that money to fix the damn app they wouldn’t need to do that

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CardinalNumber Former moderator Yesterday

You underestimate how deranged people are. People show up in modmail upset about advice they read here and lost money on. I don't even read PMs or that Reddit chat mess (besides the fact that Relay doesn't support it) because it's all crazy upset people.

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DEATHROW_ELITE Yesterday

I work in a casino, it's not because the app, it's because they're losing money.

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geonic_ 1 day ago

It’s 2020 and we now support wire transfers! Yay!

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tempMonero123 Hurts So Good 1 day ago

They "took" wire transfers before, it was just through a third party. Since Kraken is a major US-based exchange that supports Monero, I think we should support them when possible.

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geonic_ 1 day ago

Yep, I've been using them for 4 years now. Don't see how this affects the customer -- maybe faster funding times once the money is sent. The process for the client will still look the same. You have to go into your bank and sign a wire transfer form. It's good that they're fixing their back-end of sorts and have a better banking relationship, but why are they advertising an existing feature?

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Xhotanse 1 day ago

Looks like funding times will be faster. And I thought they had $0 fee for incoming wires, this new option is $4. And my bank charges $25 so it's still expensive to transfer small amounts

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geonic_ 1 day ago

Much ado about nothing.

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CryptoDROI 2 days ago

Nice to hear that, great news, Thank you Kraken!

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geonic_ 2 days ago

ACH please, thanks.

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exoticparticle 2 days ago

Kraken also supports USDC. So, the free way for Americans to deposit involves an ACH deposit on CBP for free, convert USD to USDC for free, send USDC to Kraken, trade USDC for USD (minor fee), and buy XMR. 😎 For those who want to save a buck or $40, it’s a good option... and not as complicated as it sounds.

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rBitcoinMod 2 days ago

Similar content has already been submitted several times. Please check the front page of r/Bitcoin and r/Bitcoin/new for previous submissions to help keep repetition to a minimum. You can also try using the search bar. Thank you.

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AnotherAnonGringo 2 days ago

$4 per transfer! Unless you're buying a lot of XMR at once, that's insane.

Also, I was told this is the permanent replacement for 'US Domestic Wire.'

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massaritiaret Yesterday

> $4 Jeez, thats a relatively pretty much high fee. Unless you buy a 1k worth of XMR or so

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AnotherAnonGringo Yesterday

Yeah, now I don't care if Kraken approves my account or not. I don't buy and hold XMR, I buy it to spend. I usually transact <$100 so having to pay $4 for that privilege is a no-go. It's a PITA to buy BTC, send it to my wallet, convert it via Elude, and then spend it, but I only pay like $1 to do it total and it's instant. If I was okay with the ACH delay it would only be the minuscule BTC transfer fees and reasonable Elude exchange fee. Like $0.10 or so.

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tempMonero123 2 days ago

It's cheaper than Coinbase, I think they charge $10 to receive a transfer.

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CarlSpender 1 day ago

Coinbase has other options that are cheaper.  Kraken is still behind the curve as it relates to fiat deposits.  It's works for large, large traders, but for your every day purchases? There are other, more convenient, cheaper options.

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AnotherAnonGringo 2 days ago

A wire, but an ACH is free. You can't ACH nor debit card with Kraken. Even a debit card is only 2% with Coinbase.

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SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor 2 days ago

Could you not wire before?

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ImaginaryTransition7 2 days ago

Not to Kraken directly.

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Adreik 2 days ago

You could, but it was a wire to Etana Custody, not Kraken itself.

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dEBRUYNE_1 Moderator 2 days ago

Felt this was relevant, as Kraken has an XMR/USD pair.

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Kraken-Marcus 2 days ago

Hello dEBRUYNE\_1,  Thanks for the mention.  Best, Kraken

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dEBRUYNE_1 Moderator 2 days ago

You're welcome.

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CryptoMods Bronze 2 days ago

Hello, your post was removed because your account is less than 50 days old or you do not have the required 500 comment karma to make post submissions.

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kraken-jeff 2 days ago

Hello,

We are pleased to announce a new USD funding option for US residents (domestic wire) through MVB Bank. For more information please visit our blog for the full article:

https://blog.kraken.com/post/5573/kraken-launches-new-usd-funding-option-for-us-residents/

Best, Kraken

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kraken-jeff 2 days ago

Hello,

We are pleased to announce a new USD funding option for US residents (domestic wire) through MVB Bank.

For more information please visit our blog for the full blog article:

https://blog.kraken.com/post/5573/kraken-launches-new-usd-funding-option-for-us-residents/

Best, Kraken

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IndigoSoul224 2 days ago

What are the benefits to using this method over a domestic wire via Evolve Bank?

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kraken-jeff 2 days ago

Hello u/IndigoSoul224, thank you for reaching out. We are recommending that US residents who use Evolve domestic wire to switch over to MVB Bank funding method as soon as possible, as it will offer the fastest and smoothest experience for most clients. Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to ask, we are happy to assist. - Kraken Support

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kraken-jeff 2 days ago

Hello,

We are pleased to announce a new USD funding option for US residents (domestic wire) through MVB Bank. For more information please visit our blog for the full blog article:

https://blog.kraken.com/post/5573/kraken-launches-new-usd-funding-option-for-us-residents/

Best, Kraken

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kraken-jeff 2 days ago

Hello,

We are pleased to announce a new USD funding option for US residents (domestic wire) through MVB Bank. For more information please visit our blog for the full blog article:

https://blog.kraken.com/post/5573/kraken-launches-new-usd-funding-option-for-us-residents/

Best, Kraken

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CMShortboy 6 hs ago

This one's interesting, because trading is what I like to call strategic gambling. With that being said alone, people know what they're getting into when they throw large sums of money into an app like Robinhood. We as designers can help users limit their mistakes and offer better experiences, especially in terms of clarity, but at the end of the day, people will put in as much money as they want and potentially lose or gain a lot of money. If a person really wants to, they will, no matter how many fail-safes are in place.

I've also been involved in the stock market since January and have been using Robinhood daily for about a month now. It's ethical. There are no pushes to get you to put in money. They only thing they try to push is referring people to signup for you to get free stock. It's not in your face though, no popups, etc. They keep it subtle.

I saw in the comments someone else said that Robinhood lowers the barrier to entry for newcomers to the space. Obviously true. It's a trading app targeted toward beginners, just like Cash App's investing feature that came out in October 2019. Robinhood also has what's called fractional shares, which means you can buy any stock for just a dollar and you will be sold a fraction of the stock. In my opinion, all this does it help newcomers learn the playing field and makes people buy exactly how much of whatever stock they want. For example, one share of Amazon is like $3,000, but if you only have $1,000 to invest, you can still get 1/3 of an Amazon stock.

Hope this answers some of your questions. Feel free to respond with more.

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totopc 1 h ago

Yeah I get what you mean..That argument surely hits home, even if you put safeguards in it will just be ignored by people. It's like installing an application in windows you just hit next until it's installed. I don't know what I did but I just want to install it. I'll admit I'm too emotional invested in not even letting people get a hold of a good UX like robinhood with low barrier of entry in investment when they have no financial stability. It's like betting on high stakes poker when I'm homeless and in debt just to have a slim chance of winning. The sad part is day trading is being pushed hard by influencers using RH. Rather than just buy and hold on a company with good balance sheet, little to no debt, has a good moat the get on with your life. and never touch it again. I get the impression also that people will do dumb things problem, but i think options like 1. Stoploss notification or As Default 2. Good FICO Scores before Registration 3. Good IRS standings Would help in setting up a barriers. BUTTTTT,,robinhood is not like that.. It's getting the barrier low enough so people would take charge of their finances and take the money from the rich. Sadly the opposite is happening. With that said should we treat an app as neutral or with no right and wrong. That at the end of the day, the perception of a neutral app is just tinted on what people are doing there? Also it's just hard for a company like RH to just stop the growth for it's highly VC backed. A little conflict of interest there. Hey man thank you for commenting. Let me know if there are things that you agree or disagree with.

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Ghosty_0 Yesterday

Yea but then i switched to ToS, so me big smart now

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TheTradeDen Yesterday

Social media more. You see cool cars and people posting a $1000 account suddenly going to $60k and anyone thinks it’s possible.

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civicmon Yesterday

How Robinhood doesn’t have a trading desk tel# is absolutely beyond me.

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Cristian_Cerv9 Yesterday

God... if I made a million, I would stop immediate and start with 100 again lol

Invest in other businesses or skills to keep my income high and basically live a retired life while still living the hustle life but with extreme security

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blind_mowing Yesterday

and the ones that made money will soon find out about short term capital gains taxes.

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Millionaire007 Yesterday

Honestly I remember getting stuck in a trade years ago on TSLA, my platform glitched up and i had to call my fucking broker in the Bahama's to get me out of the trade. I swear if i wasnt so young i wouldve had a heart attack. The stress was insane! When i consider the fact that I was training for a year, had a concrete strategy, an instructor, exited the trade +500, and still my reaction was pure panic mode. The craziest part... the trade only lasted 10 minutes. That's why Ive always hated the idea of Robinhood. An app that can deliver a financial world with tens of trillions of dollars of transactions at ANYBODIES FINGERTIPS with no qualifications. Throwing young people and their life savings to the fucking wolves in the MOST VOLATILE UNPREDICTABLE MARKET ANYONE HAS EVER SEEN. Then when you bomb out your account it's "fuck you pay me".

They offer very little education, dont provide a simulator so you can see if you can even make money. Instead they allow their consumers to be thrown into a live firing squad where billions of dollars are exchanging hand per second, without providing a single fucking safe guard.

FUCK ROBINHOOD THEY'RE NOTHING BUT CAPITALIST VULTURES RAN BY TRUST FUND FUCKERS, SCALPING WHAT LITTLE PENNIES MY GENERATION HAS LEFT

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iMnotHiigh Yesterday

Ahh yes let's blame Robinhood for other people's problems....it said on the article the dude had a million dollars lol and didn't take it out, who's fault is that?

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landob Yesterday

Wtf how do you get a mil, then jump back in and lose it all? If I got a mil from all of this I Immediately would stop, take the family on a vacation *well if covid wasnt going on* pay off my debts, then drop the remainder info to some safe bluechips/ETF

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SainnQ Yesterday

Maybe his dumbass should've learned that realized Profits are Profits at the end of the day, and nobody went broke realizing them.

They went broke gambling for the moon.

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unlucky-investy Yesterday

😅I use Robinhood and I’m not doing to bad.

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TrulyLimitless Yesterday

lol stonks

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veritanuda Yesterday

Thank you for your submission! Unfortunately, it has been removed for the following reason(s):

This link or one very similar to it has been recently submitted to /r/technology.

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Snacheeze69 Yesterday

This is financial darwinism.

DDIQ people who don't understand what they're doing are losing thousands of dollars is their own fault. Maybe take time to understand what you're doing instead of taking out debt because you think this is a "game".

Sorry but stick with the app store.

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mlvn23 Yesterday

This has been going on since the days of the bucket shops!

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DEV1LSADV0CAT3 Yesterday

TL;DR: Guy goes $75k in debt to fuel his gambling addiction (betting on stocks), makes a million dollars, stupidly loses it all and is left with $7k, whines about it like it's Robinhood's fault he's dumb.

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IJustLoggedInToSay- Yesterday

He was dumb to start, got incredibly lucky, and then was like "oops I accidentally didn't destroy my life despite my best efforts, better fix that". Gambling addiction in a nutshell.

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RandomCollection Yesterday

http://archive.is/34LCH for paywall

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olliec420 Yesterday

More New York Times #fakenews. Took out all your credit for tendies and lost... fuck you pay me!

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shoulditbe420related Yesterday

Idk, making OTM options easy as a click of a button would never lose anyone a lot of money. /S

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thc827 Yesterday

This guy is an idiot, this is in no way about Robinhood when he is taking out loans on credit cards and against his house

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tjcanno Yesterday

“There’s a sucker born every day!”

“A fool and his money are soon parted.”

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outline_link_bot Yesterday

Robinhood Has Lured Young Traders, Sometimes With Devastating Results

Decluttered version of this New York Times's article archived on July 08, 2020 can be viewed on https://outline.com/nM9tRr

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Neckbeardascended26 Yesterday

He maxed out his credit cards and took out two home equity loans to buy stocks he clearly doesn't understand. The level of stupidity and piss poor judgment on display here couldn't be prevented by gods or men. He's a fucking dumbass and I feel sorry for his kids.

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dmagee33 Yesterday

It's behind a paywall. I read a little bit though. He opened his account by taking out a credit card advance. That's as dumb as it gets. It also says he lost all that money in March, so he's probably made it all back by now. Sort of sick of seeing cherry picked numbers,

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concepcionz Yesterday

Article: Jul 8, 2020 - “This week, his balance was $6,956.”

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dmagee33 Yesterday

Does it say whether he sold or not? He must've panicked and taken losses. Almost everything has come back from March

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Elradiuzi Yesterday

This is what encourages absurdities like the whole 25k day trading bullshit that holds down the little guy. Fuck the king.

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vectorgirl Yesterday

I think about this too a lot. I wonder if the $25k makes people jump into it and lose more than they would if they “learned the lesson” of thoughtless trades with a much smaller sum of money. Like if you trade a bunch of crypto 6 times a day with a $200 investment instead, I feel like that rhe reality of it feeling like higher stakes gambling would kick in much faster. And like you’d realize you need some boundaries if you’re gonna do it successfully.

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Elradiuzi 7 hs ago

I agree, but it's not their right.

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vectorgirl 30 mins ago

Not who’s right? The little guy you mean?

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