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DrKamikadze 2 days ago

Would not be surprised if this is just the beginning, BA.

Walmart now, Target and grocery stores next. Just getting started.

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jwzheng 2 days ago

Coin star has been in Walmart for years they are only updating their machines to buy BTC.

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sasha3736 2 days ago

They might wanna install new shopping carts first before anything. Just ghetto shopping carts with no cup holders. Probably carts from when RedOwl was around.

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1UazZNfbWi 2 days ago

CoinStar is a very American thing. In other countries you change your money at the bank for free.

[Source: I met the guy who owns CoinStar in the Hilton Hawaii once. He felt that saving nearly 10 per cent of your money by driving a few hundred yards to the bank instead of giving it to him, was sheer madness. We don't keep in touch.]

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1UazZNfbWi 2 days ago

CoinStar is a very American thing. In other countries you change your money at the bank for free.

[Source: I met the guy who owns CoinStar in the Hilton Hawaii once. He felt that saving nearly 10 per cent of your money by driving a few hundred yards to the bank instead of giving it to him, was sheer madness. We don't keep in touch.]

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chainxor 3 days ago

BTC only, KYC and a 4% fee plus 7% markup fee. How shitty.

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Bors1 2 days ago

Yeah and Why would i need to buy/spend my bitcoin at fuckin walmart ?

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stink_bot 3 days ago

"Part of the process includes passing a "know-your-customer" check".

I'm out!

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QuentinTarancheetoh 3 days ago

Sweet yet another way to commit fraud at Walmart.

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wtfCraigwtf 3 days ago

Those ATMs are a KYC trap. The only thing you can buy at the Coinstar machine is a voucher that is redeemable on the shitty Coinme exchange after you KYC and pay >10% in fees.

After inserting bills into the machine, a paper voucher is issued. The next stage involves setting up a Coinme account and passing a know-your-customer (KYC) check before the voucher can be redeemed. The machine charges a 4% fee for the bitcoin option, plus another 7% cash exchange fee 🤡

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jtooker 3 days ago

I was really excited when I heard about this a few years ago and was equally disappointed when I learned about the extra steps, including KYC. I would have been 'fine' with the 10% fee if that was the cost of convenience. As it stands, this product is completely antithetical to Bitcoin (but so is much of BTC, so it goes). If it gets people into bitcoin, great, but hopefully there will be better competitors in the future.

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champagnefabulou 3 days ago

That's the power of adoption tbh. Both merchants and consumers are ready to adopt the crypto payment option as a better means of payment for goods sold and service rendered

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maserma 3 days ago

Only BTC at coinstar currently, but according to their FAQ they will be offering other cryptocurrencies in 2021. This might mean bitcoin cash support in the next few months.

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konieczko 2 days ago

Thats good but when will they actually TAKE btc? They dont even take PayPal now 😞

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hero462 2 days ago

That would be sweet. They'll have an instant customer in me. Edit: nevermind after hearing about the KYC bullshit.

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throwaway_1_1_1_1 3 days ago

Bch is a shitcoin alt

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chainxor 3 days ago

No, it is BCH is THE Bitcoin - p2p cash that works. OGs know that. BTC is the highjacked, overvalued, crippled shitcoin.

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throwaway_1_1_1_1 3 days ago

Lol fucking hell you guys are so dumb

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Minimummaximum21 3 days ago

Oh yes, the sub penny to use coin is so shitty. I mean with it's decentralized permissionless Blockchain , no one likes that.

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throwaway_1_1_1_1 3 days ago

It's sub penny because no one is using it. Blocks are empty. Scam centralised dead alt bch

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chainxor 3 days ago

90-100K tx pr. day - hardly qualifies as "no one uses it". Stop being so retarded.

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Minimummaximum21 3 days ago

You seem to think fees are needed, shows how brainwashed you are

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throwaway_1_1_1_1 3 days ago

Yes I'm brainwashed says the guy claiming a shitcoin alt is bitcoin lool

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Minimummaximum21 3 days ago

It seems like you're reading comprehension needs a little work as well I can tip you some money if you need some classes

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Cal_han 3 days ago

It's not Walmart it's coinstar in general.

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sexyama 3 days ago

that thing is massive

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hedgedescrow 3 days ago

Im too poor to shop at walmart

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himynameisnocke 3 days ago

Why do they need to be this big? Its not like they would store the btc there.

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Wave-Civil 3 days ago

Use El Salvador ATM if you're from El Salvador.

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stink_bot 3 days ago

No KYC needed...

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pnemi 3 days ago

But why?

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nickname432 3 days ago

Just like the gold exchanges in super market where people don't trust the value of their national fiat currencies

Must be good business

Btc atms started popping up here as well, however they disappeared lately. Nothing to worry though, probably just Christine La Garde being salty.

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dellemonade 3 days ago

Lol, that's how to write a catchy article headline. Coinstar is a machine service that allows you to turn your loose change into cash, gift cards, etc. This is more Walmart decided to put Coinstars in there stores than Bitcoin atms in their store.

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jaygee10001 3 days ago

Coinstar partnership with Flexa

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CuriouslyOpinionated 3 days ago

These are complete rip offs. I tried one earlier this week just out of pure curiosity. Put $50 dollars in and by the time I converted my voucher and transferred the BTC to my wallet, I was left with $43 worth of BTC. Not only are there fees for both getting the voucher and moving it to your own secure wallet, they inflate the BTC purchase price. Case in point, BTC was at about $62k at the time of purchase but Coinstar had BTC at $66k.

That said it was kind of entertaining to purchase BTC using an atm. Just wouldn’t ever do it again.

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TyranaSoreWristWreck 3 days ago

Is it Anonymous when you do it that way?

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CuriouslyOpinionated 3 days ago

For this particular atm, Coinstar, it is not anonymous. You have to download an app called Coinme which does a KYC including email and phone number which is then verified.

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stink_bot 3 days ago

Bummer...

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nlavrushin 3 days ago

On some ATM they require KYC but it is light and only asks emails mostly

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couple4hire 3 days ago

its not the fees that isn't really a issue, its the KYC that you won't know tiill you get the receipt. They do not tell you, you need to verify before they release the funds to you

10% for privacy is worth it unless you don't care then just go to coinbase

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SPedigrees 3 days ago

You can check on the policies of any particular ATM at https://coinatmradar.com/

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KayneGirl redditor for 6 weeks 3 days ago

Still waiting on a way to convert my Bitcoin to cash to do weekly grocery shopping without having to give so much personal info.

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hocusseswrathfulb3 3 days ago

This is very much possible, especially with the advent crypto cards. There are several of them out there you can use out there. I do make use of Baanx card to do this and the transaction fee I'm being charge is almost negligble. Crypto.com card is also a good one to use.

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IamGlennBeck 3 days ago

It is a gift card not cash, but they have major grocery store chains and only require an email. https://www.bitrefill.com/buy/usa/food/

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LauriNiemiy 3 days ago

It will be a lot easier when you make use of a crypto card to actually do your weekly grocery shopping and even get some bonus for making use of the service.

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Tungsten_Rain 3 days ago

The bitcoin ATMs in my city charge a 25% fee. So, you put in $100 get $75 worth of crypto. That's ridiculous.

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wardersotiatryr2ld 3 days ago

IMO this is really absurd. I rather prefer to go through the option of using Crypto cards and one I'm conversant with is the Baanx card which I can use at over 40million merchant stores

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Gorroseg 3 days ago

I would rather make use of a centralized on-ramp service directly from my account than use that ATM with such a fee.

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ProbablyInfamous 3 days ago

Gosh, i thought the one near me (which charges "no fee," but exchanges at 88% of major exchange rates) was criminal.

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JamesWasilHasReddit 4 days ago

Centralized bullshit. No thanks. I'll find another bitcoin atm instead that doesn't tell me what wallet I have to use or track it like fiat.

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Maleficent_Plankton 3 days ago

> The machine charges a 4% fee for the bitcoin option, plus another 7% cash exchange fee 11% fees. No thank you

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loblolly33 3 days ago

Just call it tokenomics. Folks’ll eat it up.

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LauriNiemiy 3 days ago

This is the reason I prefer to use crypto cards, as they don't charge high for a transaction and I even get cash back when doing so.

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Beastlorion - @Beastlyorion

RT @Snowden: This looks like it produces a global (hash) database of people's iris scans (for "fairness"), and waves away the implications by saying "we deleted the scans!" Yeah, but you save the *hashes* produced by the scans. Hashes that match *future* scans. Don't catalogue eyeballs. https://t.co/uAk0NYGeZu

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Ryan Selkis - @twobitidiot

RT @ledgerstatus: I would like to hear the non-dystopian take from @SBF_FTX @zhusu @KyleSamani in particular. This project worries me, and I’d love to be educated why I should think it’s better than it looks. https://t.co/9GZuxwBrq4

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Ari Paul - @AriDavidPaul

The predatory sharks are getting more disciplined on messaging. Honestly, this motivates me to work harder to promote truly decentralized and open networks. Facebook just gives users free stuff too…it’s not philanthropic. You’re the product. https://t.co/wgk9wlhRJp

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Kyle Samani - @KyleSamani

We are excited to back Alex and the Worldcoin team Worldcoin is most egalitarian thing we've ever seen. It's insanely ambitious, and if it works, can really reshape the fabric of society https://t.co/WqIKh4zL8o

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Cameron Hejazi - @chejazi

Sell the top https://t.co/4JbqHqkpkd

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WhalePanda - @WhalePanda

Just came out of retirement for 1 sec to say that this is absolutely disgusting. I expected this from scammy companies like Coinbase, Multicoin and a16z. Not from @zhusu and @SBF_FTX who really do know better. 1984 called. https://t.co/O4FZpIA7et https://t.co/kgZW1oFcJg

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Nick Tomaino - @NTmoney

RT @alexblania: 1/ Today, I am excited to reveal Worldcoin, a new, global digital currency that will be distributed fairly to as many people as possible. We will launch by giving a free share of Worldcoin to everyone on Earth. Read more: https://t.co/xfAMwcRw2C https://t.co/JI3VqlxiTM

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Hunter Horsley - @HHorsley

RT @sama: Introducing Worldcoin, a new cryptocurrency that will be distributed fairly to as many people as possible. Details about how it works: https://t.co/DLcAmUA4u3 https://t.co/xC3W2U6Xi3

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Tim Pastoor - @timpastoor

Kill it with fire. https://t.co/knP4bteZYu https://t.co/FO2qHOmHzK

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Ryan Shea - @ryaneshea

As tech changes so rapidly, basic income & sybil resistance will be a critical component for avoiding a digital dystopia. Worldcoin is probably the most ambitious experiment in this area yet. Excited to be an investor and proud of the team for the launch and progress to date. https://t.co/hENUpWQxK9

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Meltem Demirors - @Melt_Dem

dystopian nightmares note the backers - https://t.co/2Ajs3DYHkr https://t.co/MhSSNUTqil

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Adam Baybutt - @adambaybutt

Hard startup ✅ https://t.co/IsZSesgSg0

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Michael Goldstein - @bitstein

I regret to inform you that Silicon Valley is at it again. https://t.co/hyuj9ui1Uf

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$ALEX Masmej ☄️ - @AlexMasmej

Thrilled to see this project finally come out publicly! Worldcoin is the world’s largest fair launch: everyone on Earth is eligible. If this works, this could be the largest payment network ever. And AFAIK, it’s on an Ethereum rollup! @SayEthereum https://t.co/0QLugPUohn

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Neeraj K. Agrawal - @NeerajKA

what happens if they all dump it and the one person who believes in this ends up with all of it https://t.co/JIrhbRJKZJ

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Chris Dixon - @cdixon

Today we are announcing our investment in Worldcoin which is taking a new approach to solve this problem in a privacy-preserving way, using zero-knowledge proofs. https://t.co/N9z8n78kvI

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ThePhysicist - @ThePhysicist 4 days ago

So, my understanding of the current play in this space is as follows:

  - Create a large number of worthless cryptographic tokens.
  - Distribute around half of them as "freebies".
  - Keep the other half to yourself / distribute them among your investors.
  - Start a hype by injecting your investors money into your currency. 
  - Hope that people will start to trade/speculate with your currency, buying it for real monies.
  - As the trading volume ramps up, start extracting money from the system by exchanging your tokens for real monies.
  - Profit!

Is this about right? I mean it's quite ingenious as you seem to create money out of thin air, but I really can't wrap my head around how this isn't outlawed as an MLM scheme by governments.

walrus01 - @walrus01 4 days ago

> ensuring that every person on Earth can prove that they are indeed human

>To address it, we built a new device called the Orb. It solves the problem through biometrics: the Orb captures an image of a person’s eyes

I'm sure absolutely nothing can go wrong with this at all. Wow. I hope this is satire.

Imagine what a major nation state intelligence agency could do with a data set of globally-unique eyeball vein pattern images of billions of persons.

Etheryte - @Etheryte 4 days ago

> We are only a few months away from a global launch and we are running field tests in many locations around the world. In these field tests, people are waiting hours to receive their free share of Worldcoin [...].

Using dark patterns like artificially limiting supply before the product is even released to create an illusion of demand pretty much says everything you need to know about this. There are no interesting new concepts here, except that in addition to being yet another bogus coin, you're also expected to give up your biometric data.

squidproquo - @squidproquo 4 days ago

I think the overarching idea here makes sense, but the devil is in the details.

1) It's going to be difficult to ensure that the 'Orb' device can't be hacked and allow bad actors to send a bunch of random codes to signup for a Worldcoin.

2) If there are bogus signups how do you deal with reconciliation when there are ID collisions?

3) It's going to take many years for this to get a critical traction and to deploy coins to individuals.

4) The value of this coin will be extremely small when it's divided amongst the world's population. Assuming it's spent shortly after it is received, this money will just flow back to the owner's of capital anyways.

have_faith - @have_faith 4 days ago

Price of eyes on the black market skyrockets, coroners and morticians start driving around in lambos.

md8 - @md8 4 days ago

Privacy by Design! - We use biometric identification to ensure a fair launch.

So collecting fingerprints and iris scans, Privacy by Design?

lvl100 - @lvl100 4 days ago

Imagine you sitting on incredible wealth by just being in SV over the past two decades.

And then you come up with this garbage.

kfprt - @kfprt 4 days ago

> Launching a new global currency by giving a share of it to every human on earth

A share of nothing is still nothing.

mediocregopher - @mediocregopher 4 days ago

A similar project here: https://www.proofofhumanity.id/

They don't solve the proof-of-humanness problem via biometrics, it's more of a web-of-trust kind of thing. Probably also broken as hell, but this is a hard problem being solved in new ways so that's expected.

rokobobo - @rokobobo 4 days ago

I don’t even think this is satire. This feels like the kind of made up stories that children come up with (and place themselves at the center of).

__alexs - @__alexs 4 days ago

What if you don't have eyes?

beecafe - @beecafe 4 days ago

What stops an Orb Operator from just opening up the Orb and publishing random hashes? Assuming that "privacy is preserved" and the hash can't be turned back into an iris, there should be no way to tell.

sodimel - @sodimel 4 days ago

This home page have a score of 29 bullshit[0], nice one!

[0]: Bullshit.js − https://mourner.github.io/bullshit.js/

mcgingras - @mcgingras 4 days ago

The thing about these "drops" is people will liquidate them into real currency as quickly as possible. If the goal is to distribute a currency to as many people as possible (so everyone has a piece of the currency to use) then you have to remove any possible off ramps. But, then you run into the problem of nobody _actually_ being interested in the coin since it has "no real value" (can't trade it for USD)

sfe22 - @sfe22 4 days ago

I also had a similar coin/currency idea to share with every human equally, but could not come with a good plan to distribute it, besides after carefully thinking this would not be truly necessary, because if people are free, productive ones will quickly make money, even if they start with zero. A bigger problem might be land and other world resources that are not currently being equally distributed.

everlost - @everlost 4 days ago

Interesting project, but many open questions:

1. Are the coins allocated to each user lumpsum, or on a fixed schedule?

2. How can privacy be protected when converting coins into fiat currency?

3. Why would anyone trade these coins, when they can simply get their own freshly issued?

3. How can the coins have any value when nobody trades them?

kangnkodos - @kangnkodos 3 days ago

There have been studies which start with giving everyone the same amount of money, and then simulating random transactions. In a very short amount of time, one person ends up with 95% of the money.

When it is run different times, a different random person ends up being the one rich person. But it never ends up with everyone having about the same amount of money.

99112000 - @99112000 4 days ago

I am definitely hacking this. Thanks

0xBA5ED - @0xBA5ED 4 days ago

Let me guess: Nobody has access to the data because it is encrypted from literally everyone so there will never be any conflicts of interest ever, right?

pikwip - @pikwip 4 days ago

Is there any evidence that a user can't get a new wallet for every pair of novelty contact lenses they buy?

leppr - @leppr 3 days ago

Sorry for the meta post, but it's quite funny how HN's legendary skepticism towards cryptocurrency manages to get even Sam Altman's project flagged on his own (former) board.

asjdflakjsdf - @asjdflakjsdf 4 days ago

The idea of a fairly distributed world coin is fascinating, and something I would absolutely love to see.

Unfortunately, from reading that webpage, I don't think "Worldcoin" sounds like a very promising application of the concept.

w-m - @w-m 4 days ago

Start working on a way to print uniquely patterned contact lenses now, to be ready at launch. Even thisisnotaniris.com is still up for grabs, have fun with your infinite number of tokens!

luckystarr - @luckystarr 4 days ago

Nice. This means I can create as many accounts as I dare, right? I just need to create fingerprints that are used for identifying an "eye".

chaostheory - @chaostheory 4 days ago

The main reason more people aren’t using crypto is because transactions are slow and expensive. This doesn’t solve either of those problems.

hereme888 - @hereme888 4 days ago

This is ridiculous.

bla15e - @bla15e 4 days ago

Absolutely horrifying, just in time for Halloween

xx511134bz - @xx511134bz 3 days ago

I wonder if eye-scanning hashes can handle Lasik / PRK

jagger27 - @jagger27 4 days ago

> Help us give Worldcoin to over a billion people. Get rewarded for every user you sign up.

Come on guys.

rvz - @rvz 4 days ago

Free coins for scanning your face on a blockchain and it will be there forever? Absolutely no thanks and no deal.

This is a definitive edition ponzi scam.

epa - @epa 4 days ago

"Nothing like this has ever been done before" See bitcoin

hnechochamber - @hnechochamber 4 days ago

dont worry folks im here to save the world with my crypto currency.

lifeformed - @lifeformed 4 days ago

Could you fake multiple identities with eye modifications?

esnard - @esnard 4 days ago

How does the Orb handle people who lost their eyes?

yownie - @yownie 3 days ago

Nope!Nope!Nope!........................Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!Nope!

TigeriusKirk - @TigeriusKirk 3 days ago

The vision here is a first step toward a global UBI. If you're going to give everyone an income, you first need to know that each account is a real person. That's essential.

So this is a way to get there. I'm sure it will have glitches and hitches. That's fine, this is how you work it all out, by taking practical real-world actions.

The vision here is huge. Ultimately a complete transition of the global economy.

Will it get there? No idea. But I'm very, very excited to see someone working on it.

nynx - @nynx 4 days ago

What sci-fi book is this from?

f38zf5vdt - @f38zf5vdt 4 days ago

Broken link for me, but you can see the original page here.

https://web.archive.org/web/20211021151209/https://worldcoin...

908087 - @908087 3 days ago

I sincerely hate everything about the direction the tech industry is taking society in, and it makes me feel like it may be time to stop being a part of that industry even after giving the last 35 years of my life to it.

seibelj - @seibelj 4 days ago

Wow it looks like YC / HackerNews is going all in on cryptocurrency! Congrats YC team!

For readers - a Senior Blockchain Engineer position is available! https://worldcoin.org/job/4001608004 HNers - apply now!

Show all comments on Hackernews

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Validus812 2 days ago

Facetoob, for all your worldly needs. Come join our clique.

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peterthooper 2 days ago

How many here (rightly) hating on faecebook actually work for faecebook?

(Yes, you can raise your hands.)

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peterthooper 2 days ago

You may have your “metaverse,” but you do not have me.

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PolarGipsy 2 days ago

Koobecaf?

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PolarGipsy 2 days ago

Meth ‘ah verse? Lol

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junkoblah 2 days ago

Why do people still even use facebook. Gross.

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JC2535 3 days ago

Great. This will be the mother of all closed loop echo chambers and the people who use it will be led to believe we’re all lizards and start killing us.

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fadedkeenan 3 days ago

🖕🖕🖕

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LukeSkyDropper 3 days ago

Convicts change their name a lot🤣

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SAyyOuremySIN 3 days ago

This is some of the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard.

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rotcivwg 3 days ago

Mark zuckerberg can fucking suck it.

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DCzy7 3 days ago

Never been on Facebook never will.

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halloxtv 3 days ago

Plot twist: they buy the rights to the name MySpace

“Quick, somebody find Tom! They trusted Tom!”

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brooke_please 3 days ago

“If you think this universe is bad, you should see the metaverse”

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bagorilla 3 days ago

Eat your shit sandwich before you move on to dessert Zuck.

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slyons1616 3 days ago

This will solve all of their problems.

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Sharkeattack087 3 days ago

I definitely don’t plan to see “Zuckerberg: Into the metaverse”

Sounds like a dumb movie!

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2u3e9v 3 days ago

At this point, I’ll only use products who I don’t know the CEOs name offhand

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01123581321AhFuckIt 3 days ago

That would be stupid. Facebook is a good name. It’s just they tarnished it. Maybe work on repairing your reputation instead of trying to avoid it.

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spgremlin 3 days ago

A holding company name, not their flagship product (website) name. Like Google did.

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rogallew 3 days ago

How about facebook filter bubble parallel universe?

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renoahk 3 days ago

Pffft the F? Rename it “Facebook Metaverse”? That’s not how you rename a troubled brand? LOL

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Craico13 3 days ago

“People seem to hate our CEO, Mark Zuckerberg… Perhaps we should replace him with someone *approachable* and *lovable…* Someone *new* and *fresh*... someone like… *Mark E. Zuckerberg…*” - Facebook, probably.

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peterthooper 2 days ago

Shouldn’t that be “Zuckerberg, Mark 2”?

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WhiteNegroSpectacle 3 days ago

Maybe Markie Mark Zuckerberg to appeal to the kids. They're already out of touch, they should lean into it.

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SuperGameTheory 3 days ago

Naw, just Mark E Z

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UnstuckCanuck 3 days ago

Fitting since he sees all his users as EZ marks.

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BaconGamer1176 3 days ago

Wtf is a “Facebook metaverse”

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MustLovePunk 3 days ago

It’s a concept Zuck came up with after seething about Bezos getting a little media attention for flying a phalliship into “barely space”… then suddenly Zuck’s inability to pursue his insatiable dark urges for power, wealth, chaos and sick social experiments became so frustrating and boring that he sank into a deep depression, repeatedly watching “Ready Player One” while binge-eating raw goat meat and the souls of The Poors.

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peterthooper 2 days ago

Awesome!

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BaconGamer1176 3 days ago

Isn’t it AR? Not VR like ready player one (I don’t know for sure)

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duffmanhb 2 days ago

Yes a meta verse is what the AR community reverse to their own product universe. Initially each AR company will have their own nested universe to interact with.

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EverthingsAlrightNow 3 days ago

Oh, you know, just another concept Facebook stole from someone else. Par for the course.

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BaconGamer1176 3 days ago

Accurate but so does like every social media platform

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lindajohn1711 3 days ago

Check this Video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8LwL7quaF4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8LwL7quaF4) To know more about Metaverse

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WhoStoleMyJacket 3 days ago

Doctor Zuck in the Metaverse of Madness

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crushgemz 3 days ago

Someone watched Rick and Morty

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type0 - @type0 5 days ago

They should rebrand to Faceboot - "“If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever.” George Orwell

edit: I see a bright future for Oculus if it's marketed and shaped as a faceboot. /s it would look something like this: https://i.imgflip.com/2y3xdw.jpg

rishav_sharan - @rishav_sharan 5 days ago

I don't think that it's gonna be a straight rebrand. If it does happens, it will be more of a restructuring in line with Google, with a new parent company being created.

Facebook is way too large and does too many things today to be called just Facebook

spcebar - @spcebar 5 days ago

Their new name: International House of Burgers.

The lack of focus at Facebook is reminding me of Yahoo and AOL and their gradual refusal to evolve their core product, instead expanding into a multitude of side-products, and slowly moving out of relevance.

This alarmism (or optimism) hardly ever pays off, but I wonder what the social media landscape and accompanying 'metaverse' will look like ten years from now, and how Facebook will fit into it, if at all.

arnvald - @arnvald 5 days ago

Do these rebrands even work? I see a couple of examples in other comments, like Comcast -> Xfinity, Philip Morris -> Altria, but this is the first time I see the name Altria. Even earlier this month when I was reading an article about tobacco, it used the name Philip Morris.

Google's rebranding to Alphabet also feels semi-successful. Technically Fitbit is a Google's sister company under the Alphabet umbrella, but all the news I've seen reported it as "Google acquires Fitbit". I only see the Alphabet name when I read about earnings reports and their stock value, and even then it's always introduced as "Alphabet, the Google parent company"

bredren - @bredren 5 days ago

Despite how loathed Facebook is, if an Alphabet-like parent company launches a metaverse that _does not_ integrate with the social graph / is not monetized through advertising, it has a real shot.

I have felt FB has needed to offer a privacy focused social network for some time. Apple is quietly proving people are willing to pay for privacy-enabled social features.

My question is whether they will collaborate with Epic / Fortnite on this. I suspect they will need to in order to take on whatever ends up dominating the App Store Apple's eventual hardware platform.

Larrikin - @Larrikin 5 days ago

Comcast still has a terrible reputation despite their best efforts to call themselves Xfinity wherever they legally can. Doubt it will work for Facebook, so long as they aren't allowed to continue buying up and coming competitors.

tuyuri - @tuyuri 5 days ago

12 days ago there was as "Facebook is nearing a reputational point of no return" ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28786250 ), so maybe it's some kind of "better change before it gets worse"

Edit: fix typo

poisonborz - @poisonborz 5 days ago

Just out of sheer practicality, it's hard to understand the appeal of 3D (social) spaces. The web/text/document medium of the "classic" web is easily displayable from watch displays to 80" TVs. You can stack text, video, music conveniently and perceptually obviously on 2D planar spaces. You can just glance away to have a context of the real world - as such, comparable and fitting to other physical activities.

I get some aspects of VR, like gaming or the increasing trend to use virtual displays for productivity (stacking 2D windows). But accessing this space seems to be complicated even years ahead - the only way is to wear large, vision-blocking eyewear, or at least display a full-screen application that takes the user out of context. You can add in cameras and virtual 2D desktops to help, but it's an all-encompassing experience where getting in and out is a major, reorienting move. This is appealing for an ad company (100% eyeball control must be immensely valuable) or maybe for some mental needs ("escape reality") but I see this problematic and hard to integrate into society and the human experience.

musicale - @musicale 5 days ago

Face{plant|palm|roll|mask|hugger}

Or as an homage to Orwell: Faceboot.

They could always go back to their Facemash roots.

Or acquire the rights to Skynet.

ggrelet - @ggrelet 5 days ago

I just realized that www.faceboot.com redirects to www.facebook.com

sasaf5 - @sasaf5 5 days ago

I do hope they call it "Umbrella Corp.". Either that or beating Alphabet with a more dystopian name.

Mountain_Skies - @Mountain_Skies 5 days ago

Given their behavior, Buttbook seems appropriate.

reaperducer - @reaperducer 5 days ago

You know the world hates your company when it has to rebrand.

See also: Comcast → Xfinity

crucifiction - @crucifiction 5 days ago

AltriaBook

minimaxir - @minimaxir 5 days ago

No points for suggesting its new name will be "TheFacebook": everyone's made that joke already.

user3939382 - @user3939382 5 days ago

Digital Yoke Syndication Technology Over Public Internet Access — DYSTOPIA

adminscoffee - @adminscoffee 5 days ago

he is a cartoon character trying to pull us into his world. ok that's mean but, maybe i am getting old or something but the idea really doesn't appeal to me that much. i kinda wanna stop using computers and electronic devices. anyone realize how fast time goes by when you are glued to your monitor?

soong - @soong 5 days ago

I propose IOI

euroderf - @euroderf 5 days ago

Faceborg, obv.

astlouis44 - @astlouis44 5 days ago

They're going to rebrand to IOI.

donkey-hotei - @donkey-hotei 5 days ago

M E T A B O O K

wayeq - @wayeq 5 days ago

Metaface

vmception - @vmception 5 days ago

Numeration.xyz

gentleman11 - @gentleman11 5 days ago

Introducing: "Facebooklify, the <3 of your community"

iratewizard - @iratewizard 5 days ago

"Maybe the name will have to do with Horizon" is the needle I had to dig through word vomit to find.

hikerclimber1 - @hikerclimber1 5 days ago

Why would anyone want to live in a metaverse? It sounds dumb.

astlouis44 - @astlouis44 5 days ago

The metaverse is best defined as an interoperable system of systems. Sound familiar?

That's because we already have it today with the web, but it's primarily based on a flat 2D model. WebGPU, WebXR, and WebAssembly are going to replace the photo, text, and video sites you use currently into 3D spatial ones that you can experience and live in. We'll have the ability to shop in virtual storefronts both for our avatars and for real life goods, chat with others in whatever environment we want with customizable surroundings, and of course browse worlds created by others with easy to use tools.

This is the vision my team at Wonder is building, so that any game engine can export complex spatial content to the browser, at near native performance. The web is powerful because it's cross-platform by default, and it "just works everywhere".

No 30% from walled gardens either!

Link to our Discord if you want to learn more or join us:

https://discord.gg/zUSZ3T8

Show all comments on Hackernews

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tomek1904 5 days ago

If SEC rejects converting a $40 billion trust to an ETF you will know it has nothing to do with investor protection. 🤷🏼

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wangwy 5 days ago

If SEC rejects converting a $40 billion trust to an ETF you will know it has nothing to do with investor protection. 🤷🏼

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nickvanbeers 5 days ago

We believe that if the SEC is open to a futures-based ETF, then it should also be OK with the physical or spot-based ETFs.

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mtrycz Transaction Maximalist 5 days ago

Why not just buy the real thing?

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onearmedphil Redditor for less than 30 days 5 days ago

Can be used for an IRA which can be contributed to without going through income tax.

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absmech 5 days ago

Grayscale files with SEC to convert its Bitcoin trust into an ETf

(Btw the russian state fund 1.5 Billion $ $BTC buy seems to be fake news).

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Commercial-Ad-2448 5 days ago

Huge

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ImaginaryMarsupial38 6 days ago

Any Bitcoin Cash ETF? Roger ver?

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Groo_Grux_King 6 days ago

Would love to hear any attempt at a reasonable explanation as to why Gensler thinks a futures-based ETF is better for "investor protection" than a simple spot ETF...

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VanillaGoy 6 days ago

Id venture the argument goes like this - BTC futs are regulated by the NFA and trade on a sanctioned exchange the CME where as the SEC has no ability currently to audit or verify off exchange cold storaged BTC holdings.

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anthologyxxviii 6 days ago

Blockexplorer? Lol open ledger baby.

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VanillaGoy 6 days ago

I didn’t say the SEC’s argument would be coherent. LOL.

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zluckdog 6 days ago

Can't help but think about those poor Winklevii watching all these ETFs glide right through to the market after they went all out trying to get their ETF approved.

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johnwee75 5 days ago

what is the probability of this getting approved though ? one day yes. anytime soon??

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Nutmasher 6 days ago

Good news so GBTC is trading higher % gains than spot Bitcoin or Bitcoin futures.

NAV discount should be less after today, but still -18%.

Hope it continues to narrow as the 75 day window closes. I hope the SEC drags their feet on the decision. If they come out with (-) decision, GBTC trades back to this discount as investors will flee for BITO.

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norththeta 6 days ago

75 days from today is jan2

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justHODLbaby redditor for 2 months 6 days ago

If you own Greyscale shares (GBTC) what is going to happen? Will this make the price rise more?

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rhbast2 6 days ago

the discount should evaporate so this is really good news if approved

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UnknownEssence 6 days ago

Is gbtc trading at a discount rn?

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Nutmasher 6 days ago

https://ycharts.com/companies/GBTC/discount_or_premium_to_nav Bookmark it.

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BackgroundMarketing1 6 days ago

Right now GBTC is at 48 per share and BTC is at 62k. Meaning that when GBTC turns into an ETF, it should rise to 62 per share or whatever the current price of bitcoin is fairly quickly. Basically GBTC is a trust and not an ETF, which I understand means that the number of total shares is fixed. An ETF makes it easier to control the number of shares and therefore match the price of GBTC to actual BTC. It might even pump before hand if investors try to catch this discount.

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Rapierguy69 6 days ago

Anyone have any experience with how long this takes to happen (assuming it's approved of course)? The EFT got approved and went live within a week or so. This the same type of thing or something that takes months? I have some of mine in GBTC and was toying with the idea of getting out of it with the fees and flipping to another bitcoin solution but if they're doing this I'll wait until it's decided.

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fireballx777 6 days ago

Your general point stands, but important to keep in mind that GBTC doesn't hold 1 bitcoin for every thousand shares (or 0.001 Bitcoin per share) -- it's 0.000935 BTC per share right now. Because of the 2% fee, this number declines over time. So if it reached parity right now, it would be ~59.59 per share (based on the current BTC price as I write this of $63731)

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BackgroundMarketing1 6 days ago

Yeah thanks for the clarification. I have to imagine that they would lower that 2% fee as it's unreasonably high and now BITO is at 0.95%.

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donttrythis3000 6 days ago

MOST LIKELY, when gbtc conversion is approved, the discount will evaporate to spot (or flip to a premium) and holders will realize an instant 20% increase in value. The 2% fee will lower to be commiserate with other like products. This is the WORST time to sell gbtc.

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Wsemenske 5 days ago

Does that mean it's the best time to buy GBTC?

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RandomTasking 5 days ago

If you think that SEC approval is a lock, and you think that Bitcoin will remain at least flat during this time, then arguably you are looking at a 15-20% gain in a little over two months, barring the SEC extending the timeline to give further consideration. I say arguably because who knows what speculators and FOMO will do, whether people sell actual Bitcoin to buy GBTC, whether they buy and immediately cash out vs buy and hold, etc.

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rhbast2 6 days ago

yep like 15%

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UnknownEssence 6 days ago

Hmm that’s seems insane to me. The expense ratio is only 2% per year. Why would it trade at such a large discount?

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PinkyPinkertons redditor for 4 weeks 6 days ago

No investors buying it thinks it is worth more than 80% of nav and that is baaaaaad. Since real investors do not think butts are worth what the last idiot paid - there could be some issues.

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whodaphucru 5 days ago

I'm intrigued here as to why the discount is so big. Is there a fear that they don't have the BTC they claim to? Is there something else about the liquidity of these OTC shares that people worry about being able to sell them?

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RandomTasking 5 days ago

You're hitting on some of the main reasons for trusts to trade at a discount. Liquidity issues, fears that the disclosed Net Asset Value is overstated (in this case having less Bitcoin than claimed), lack of faith that the trust will continue to grow NAV are sort of the big three. In this case you could also argue that it's a bit of speculation as to what Bitcoin will do in the future, since the underlying assets (Bitcoin) can't be redeemed for a period of at least six months after deposit. Much of the above goes away with an open ended ETF since purchases/shares will largely track with NAV by its very nature. Buy GBTC(etf) from Grayscale, Grayscale buys Bitcoin to boost NAV. Sell GBTC(etf) to third party for $, NAV remains unchanged. Sometimes Grayscale will be the buyer, at which point they cancel the share and sell the corresponding Bitcoin.

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whodaphucru 5 days ago

The fear I'd have is that they start a new ETF and leave the existing funds in the trust to slowly move out over time to still rake in the high fees, versus converting. Also isn't the 6 month only for the original purchasers from Grayscale not those buying shares OTC. I would think there are a lot more shares that are beyond the 6 month versus within (not really sure) so the freely traded shares should move the price closer to NAV. Time will tell. There is a hypothesis on the upside if it moves close to NAV, I think the thing for people to figure out is how much lower can the discount go to bound their risk knowing the underlying BTC can move a lot in parallel.

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encryptzee 6 days ago

I don't understand your meaning.

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rhbast2 6 days ago

This should help: https://ycharts.com/companies/GBTC/discount_or_premium_to_nav

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PRMan99 6 days ago

Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I hope we're right.

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torba 6 days ago

This is the real headline. SEC not approving Grayscale for a spot one could be seen as anti-competitive after they gave proshares the OK

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Nutmasher 6 days ago

SEC makes their own rules. Before they give the okay, be certain that they will let their cronies and pol friends know in order to absorb the NAV discount.

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fireballx777 6 days ago

The difference being that Grayscale would be a spot ETF vs Proshares's futures ETF. Now, I think it's ridiculous to approve a futures ETF before a spot one, but there is *something* that they can point to as a reason for the difference in treatment, vs it being anti-competitive.

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panda-slap Gold | QC: CC 103 | r/WallStreetBets 35 6 days ago

Bitwise has been trying to do the same but had no luck so far. Now that there is a Bitcoin-type ETF I think both of these firms will have better luck with that.

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_Minato28 Not a Bot 6 days ago

Hopefully it’ll be approved

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Charming-Dance-1839 Platinum | QC: CC 1020 6 days ago

Let's hope the SEC can just be chill for once.

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myhaxdontwork Gold | QC: CC 118 6 days ago

Ha! Gensler is strongly against a spot etf so it will be an uphill battle. But we can do it!

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International-Two607 Platinum | QC: ETH 37, BTC 25, CC 173 | MiningSubs 6 days ago

Noice

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Sketchy-Lefty25 Platinum|6monthsold|QC:ETH131,CC425,ADA69|VET13|Tr 6 days ago

If approved, very bullish. Grayscale owns quite a bit of BTC

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myhaxdontwork Gold | QC: CC 118 6 days ago

VERRYYY bullish is approved. And a much better ETF vehicle than the futures-backed ones available today

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newbieatall Gold | 2 months old | QC: CC 36 6 days ago

Good news!

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myhaxdontwork Gold | QC: CC 118 6 days ago

It’s been a long time coming. Here’s Michaels official statement https://twitter.com/sonnenshein/status/1450453242865848323?s=21

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Doggybone_treat Platinum | QC: CC 375, ETH 113 | TraderSubs 83 1 week ago

Can't wait till tomorrow to hop on it. Selling all my stocks holding on fidelity and buy as much as possible. Saving a few to grab ETH ETF when it happens too.

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ssbc007 Tin 1 week ago

Are GBTC holders a loser?

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diamondbored Platinum | QC: ETH 38, CC 118 | TraderSubs 38 1 week ago

So basically another clickbait post

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coinfeeds-bot Approved CC Bot 1 week ago

tldr; The Securities and Exchange Commission has approved a Bitcoin futures ETF. The new fund won't give you shares backed by Bitcoin, but shares tied a bundle of contracts to buy Bitcoin in the future. ProShares will be first out of the gate in this new frontier of crypto ETFs.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

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kyle_h2486 Platinum | QC: CC 227, BTC 26 | r/WallStreetBets 1 1 week ago

I’ll be a weiner for sure

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BigLongFootDoctor Platinum | QC: CC 678 1 week ago

Thought this article would have meat and bones but it's all filler

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