Token Daily

I'm happy they are buying it, I just wish one company wasn't buying so much. The could sell and dump the price so hard. The price is becoming centralized

1

bit_moon 10 hs ago

Smart ones are making their smart moves :D

1

sentokoo Gold | QC: CC 63 11 hs ago

In the early bull runs, Bitcoin turned individuals into millionaires and billionaires.

The next bull run is going to turn companies into trillionaires. All Microstrategy has to do is hold their Bitcoin to 100k and they'll have 10x more equity than Visa and Mastercard combined.

If you're a small restaurant chain and put all your cash reserves into BTC, it'll generate far more value than opening new locations across the country. Arguably with a lot less risk, especially during a pandemic.

1

ChanceEar Tin 14 hs ago

One (or the only) reason why big players are joining crypto. Not that much different from others trying to make their living by holding crypto tbh

1

rachidafr 15 hs ago

How long before MicroStrategy becomes an investment company?

1

CryptoTheNews redditor for 5 weeks 16 hs ago

How are their bitcoin gains “earnings” unless they sell?

1

PortugalReviews Tin 18 hs ago

Microstrategy is looking like a nice substitute for a BTC ETF...

1

EveningRough 20 hs ago

One bull run could do magic things

1

wmredditor 20 hs ago

Amazing things

1

4rindam Bronze 20 hs ago

oh man they're gonna dump it all on us

1

StellarChurch Tin | CC critic 18 hs ago

It would be smart to take profit but keep the initial investment worth of bitcoin. Hence when it goes higher they can profit again and again and if it goes down they can buy back at lower prices. At these numbers (tens to hundreds of millions of USD) you can't really do much wrong.

1

eyal0 Yesterday

How do they store it? Trezor? Multi sig?

1

tranceology3 Platinum | QC: CC 100 Yesterday

This is like me, but on a much, much, much smaller scale. But hey $50 is still something, am I right?

2

wmredditor Gold | QC: BTC 21, CC 17 Yesterday

Yeah. Same half bread is better than none story, LOL.

1

simon1lee2002 Yesterday

Anytime someone TAKES money out of bitcoin for a profit you are just setting someone else up for a loss elsewhere.

2

XBong Yesterday

Unlike all those other markets where when you take profits everybody wins! /s

0

edk128 16 hs ago

It's possible everyone investing in a company can pull a profit. This is not true of Bitcoin.

1

simon1lee2002 17 hs ago

So bitcoin is no different from the rest then? If that’s the case what’s the advantage of using bitcoin over fiat currency?? At least with cash it doesn’t fluctuate in your hand, imagine having a £10 note in your hand one minute and then next minute it’s either £5 or £15.. it’s not stable. I’m invested in it I’m just still trying to make sense how people realistically believe it’s the next currency. I’m open to being convinced.

1

SwapzoneIO Yesterday

Well, that's a MassiveStrategy 😇

1

That-Bus9763 redditor for 3 months Yesterday

In affect his company took a huge step towards bringing out the value of BTC. The increased value only solidifies affirms other corporations will join suit in the future.

2

mcphailryan1 Yesterday

Cryptocurrency is the future

1

bisquitpounder69 Yesterday

Wait till the report earnings next year.

2

mcphailryan1 Yesterday

Cryptocurrency is the future

2

tballz16 Yesterday

Well, of course. They "acquired at an average price of $11,111.11". That seems to be a very, very lucky price

5

TFenceChair Yesterday

As of September 30, 2020, **the average cost and average carrying value of MicroStrategy’s bitcoin were approximately $11,111 and $9,954, respectively.** As of October 26, 2020, at 4:00 p.m. EDT, MicroStrategy had 38,250 bitcoins and the market price of one bitcoin in the principal market was approximately $13,023. >https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20201027006034/en/MicroStrategy-Announces-Third-Quarter-2020-Financial-Results

2

mcphailryan1 Yesterday

hello

1

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1

4TheOutdoors Yesterday

The magnitude of this news is really hard to explain.

1

TacticalWolves Yesterday

But but would they sell it or keep it? If Bitcoin crashes those gains aren’t worth anything. This shouldn’t be included in their earnings unless they sell it and make profit out of it

4

varikonniemi 20 hs ago

Any asset in the world works the same, including all currencies.

1

jcoinner Yesterday

It's not included in earnings. It's on the books as "digital assets". Comparing to earnings has little meaning but people like to do it anyway just because, "wow, numbers".

3

doctordona Bronze Yesterday

When btc gets going, this is going to get crazy. I know this is a crypto sub, but it seems like microstrategy's stock is potentially significantly undervalued, especially when we break ATHs.

3

tingbudong99887766 Silver | QC: CC 81 | VET 140 Yesterday

I remember we were all making fun of Micro Strategy a couple of weeks ago when the price was in the 10k range. About having to explain to its shareholders and board members that they gambled on magic internet money and lost.

Now its probably going to go down in history as one of the best business decisions ever made

2

d0gbread Yesterday

Interview with the CEO:

https://youtu.be/Cg10yYZjK94

Slowish start IMO but interesting to hear his analysis.

1

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6

2 3

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10 2

roveridcoffee 1 day ago

F*ck the bankers

1

I_Do_Well 2 days ago

3x, that's it?

4

Lexsteel11 2 days ago

3x is believable and is an attractive return to a crypto skeptic; if you flat out say “we’re gonna be tearing up the moon with the boys in space-lambos by 2030” you’re not going to get the institutional investment community to be onboard with you.

5

Suspicious_Spread 2 days ago

It's been a long time. Bitcoin has become too important.

1

saulgold 2 days ago

Sold more today than I have in years. Expect moon.

1

Meliaine redditor for 5 weeks 2 days ago

The have been on the train for years. They made an announcement in august 2017 that dumped BTC. Blew my trading account... then they bought 75 million worth at 2900 per coin.

10

10yearslatemate 2 days ago

These cunts are just getting ready to offload.

5

bloodybangers 2 days ago

I think it's a case of the mainstream institutions waking up because of corona. Remember, so much has happened this year and that's before you take into account the macro situation we are currently in of end of credit cycle.

2

eleven8ster 2 days ago

Possibly. But I think at this point there's a chance the train is leaving the station. Sell at your own risk at this point.

3

itsthehappyman 2 days ago

They were never skeptical, thats to throw off the ,masses while they increase their stake at a lower price point.

12

PtansSquall redditor for 4 weeks 2 days ago

Gold who? Never heard of em

1

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1

randomretard13 2 days ago

99+ scripts blocked, no thanks

8

sammyb67 2 days ago

Just shows us that we should never listen to retard bankers.

31

c12022 2 days ago

Does this mean we should sell then?

3

WhiskeySauer 2 days ago

No, it means its value is going to go way higher than 3X, and it isnt overbought like JPMorgan claims

5

2

24 10

Soona - @soonaorlater

PTJ on CNBC this morning. It's true - we're still in the first inning. https://t.co/baCX9kWOxN

0 5

Tuur Demeester - @TuurDemeester

“Bitcoin has this enormous contingence of really, really smart and sophisticated people who believe in it,” Jones said. “It’s like investing with Steve Jobs and Apple or investing in Google early.” https://t.co/A7F01ISErR

0 57

Erik Voorhees - @ErikVoorhees

Billionaire hedge fund manager Paul Tudor Jones has turned more bullish on bitcoin, calling it the “best inflation hedge.” https://t.co/l8z9hW9ged

10 100

Preston Pysh - @PrestonPysh

“We’re in the first inning of Bitcoin” - Paul Tudor Jones More like...we’re still listening to the national anthem... https://t.co/jNMf36oGvg

0 21

Bitcoin Magazine - @BitcoinMagazine

Paul Tudor Jones says that this #Bitcoin rally is still in the ‘first inning’. Paul believes the unprecedented quantitative easing from the Federal Reserve is setting the stage for inflation to make a grand comeback. Time to grab some more BTC. https://t.co/M30CEyb02f

11 14

Pierre Rochard - @pierre_rochard

RT @100trillionUSD: Paul Tudor Jones: “It’s like investing with Steve Jobs and Apple or investing in Google early.” https://t.co/0D1lUcGU0D

6 106

Frank Chaparro - @fintechfrank

"I like bitcoin even more now than then. It's in the first inning and has a long way to go" ~ Paul Tudor Jones https://t.co/pymcTPq2Dk

3 12

Wong Joon Ian - @joonian

Really interesting that PTJ is really into the social aspects of bitcoin... the community that's dedicated to seeing bitcoin succeed. https://t.co/aC97qG4DGY

0 1

Pomp - @APompliano

"I like #bitcoin more now than I did at start. I think we're in the first inning and we have a long way to go." Imagine betting against Paul Tudor Jones. https://t.co/cPKzlqqdWp

49 221

nic carter - @nic__carter

The full clip is in here .. watch it https://t.co/JOXkMRjOe4

11 59

Nossa30 5 days ago

Im really shocked an older guy like this would embrace new technology. Most older guys don't.

1

SwapzoneIO 5 days ago

He believes it's like investing in Early Apple or Google!!

1

DonJAlex2 6 days ago

Bitcoin = awesome. What others would you add to your long term portfolio?

0

samanthamae 6 days ago

Just Bitcoin.

6

Nossa30 5 days ago

ETH too, but like 80 or 90% bitcoin.

1

sauciestwaters CryptoLegend 6 days ago

Pump it Paul Jones

1

Suishou 6 days ago

Terrible news. He must be selling already...

5

supperfield 6 days ago

When moon?

2

Bassique Gold | QC: XMR 91, BTC 21 | TraderSubs 14 6 days ago

Pamp eet Paul

1

infernalr00t 6 days ago

Meanwhile at reddit:

This sushi token is the future, yeah, I'm sure of that, all in.

1

Suicidal-duck 5 days ago

Nah i think you mean hot dog

1

Soonyulnoh2 6 days ago

Really?? Whats it gonna do, double in another year.....you could buy a $10 stock and have it go to $20....

0

mw8912a 6 days ago

Bless your soul

2

Gravy_Vampire 6 days ago

Genius

3

elementofpee redditor for 3 months 6 days ago

Did he like it when it was at 3-4k? Everyone loves bitcoin when it's pumping.

3

bittabet 6 days ago

Yeah that would be when he bought lol

4

ArtigoQ 6 days ago

First inning? Lads, we haven't even left the locker room yet.

5

Nossa30 5 days ago

First inning? The players haven't even gotten up to brush their teeth on game day yet.

1

sylsau 6 days ago

It must be acknowledged that he was one of the first, if not the first, large scale macro investor to officially take a position in favor of Bitcoin in May 2020.

Congratulations to him. The clients of his fund must say thank you for having someone who is able to change his position and open their eyes when a revolution passes him by.

Many can't do that.

16

Nossa30 5 days ago

Too bad warren buffet can't either. I don't feel too bad for him though.

1

GGDD-MMEE redditor for 3 months 6 days ago

Seems to me one of the most exciting times for BTC, with more and more involvement at all levels...individual, institutional, and point of sale! What, maybe just a couple of pitches into the 1st inning.

1

ROPEgangBaBY redditor for 3 months 6 days ago

just wait for warren buffet waving the white flag while puts one bilion buy order

12

Nossa30 5 days ago

Warren buffet will buy bitcoin when it's 10 or 15 years past multiple all-time highs long after it has been accepted into the mainstream. Just like apple...

0

c12022 5 days ago

Buffet isn't going to move for BTC, ever. He doesn't need to.

2

ROPEgangBaBY redditor for 3 months 5 days ago

thats good because he will buy it at 500k pumping us even more

0

Nossa30 5 days ago

No, He will buy it after its 1 million dollars. When there are barely any more gains to be had. He did the exact same thing with apple.

0

c12022 5 days ago

Why would he buy an asset he doesn't care about?

2

ROPEgangBaBY redditor for 3 months 5 days ago

why ? because he cares about money, and he will learn in a hard way that bitcoin is the only money. but most likely he will be dead lol

0

c12022 5 days ago

Was going to say Buffet won't be around for that, Hell even I'm not expecting to be here for that.

1

Dannnssss 6 days ago

I have the impression that with technology advancing, more advanced coins will end up destroying bitcoin. I'm I wrong to feel like this?

0

sfdglsdhkl 6 days ago

The flaw in this line of thinking is by this logic a greater version of USD should've replaced USD. But it didn't. Societies seem to have a tendency to highly favor one currency and above others- maybe its the network effect- and the only way to really get people to switch is by force or by providing some new innovation- which bitcoin did. The improvements of these others coins haven't been significant enough to motivate people to consider another coin besides bitcoin in the way that bitcoin made people consider another option besides USD.  You dont just need new improvements. You also need confidence. People need to believe in the investment. At this point bitcoin works, improves upon USD, and people have confidence in it. Convincing people to try some new coin is going to be hard unless it has an extremely different value proposition, like how btc was very different from usd. This new coin is going to have to be very different from btc and usd to motivate enough people to take a chance on it for it to get a foothold and gain some modicum of relevance. Right now, theres just nothing there. Bitcoin solves too many problems well enough that people dont have motivation for what they perceive as minor modifications slightly different value propositions with much, much higher risk and 0 track record compared to bitcoin.  Yes, something will likely come along eventually- but I think the thing you need to realize is the statistical odds that you will pick it are like 1/1000. You'll have to research each coin, experiment with it, understand what it brings to the table, and then decide if its worth your time or not. You would have to go through the code looking for oversights and problems that could be exploited and cause serious problems. The thing with bitcoin is because it's so big, theres a lot of people looking at the code already. And new coins are being created all the time. It would be a full time job. And then some coin you aren't educated on may take off and become the next bitcoin. It could happen.  Another thing is we dont know when its going to happen. it could be 5 years, it could take 50 years, it could take 100 years. It took a lot to get to this point where so many people have invested in bitcoin that it has something that almost seems to resemble a modicum of stability and society generally seems to trust it. I think the idea that you could anticipate what the next bitcoin is is hubris. It sounds simple enough, but in practice its just not really something that can be predicted.  Right now (and this could change) I feel more confident in btc rising by a high amount compared to the stock market over the next 30 years than in my ability to anticipate what the next coin could be.  Sure theres going to eventually be a new coin. Theres always a new coin. USD was the new coin, now it looks like btc is the new coin. It stands to reason that there will be another coin one day and another after that. and so on and so forth. But its an almost obvious and irrelevant fact. Just cause we know something better will come one day, that doesn't really directly give us any obvious actionable thing to do. Its good to humble yourself by acknowledging that something better will come, but its also important not to let that make you feel defeated and stop you from acting on what makes sense today. One day something new will come and we will cross that bridge when we come to it. But nothing today stands out like bitcoin stood out in 2008.

3

DWhizard 5 days ago

100% this! Well put. It’s the same with companies and stocks. GE, US Steel, Lehman Brothers were great investments for decades, but eventually they declined. Now there are Tesla, Carbon, and Square. You could not profit from investing in both GE and Tesla in the same decade. The same is likely true for Bitcoin and the next store of value.

2

alive_consequence 6 days ago

The truth is, it's almost impossible to design a better Bitcoin. You can basically only add features that Bitcoin doesn't have, but Bitcoin could add those features itself. And if Bitcoin doesn't add those features, there's probably a reason for that. Take Monero for example. It's likely the most suited successor for Bitcoin, since it shares a lot of fundamentals with it. And Monero adds privacy and fungibility. Two properties Bitcoin lacks, but likely will never add, because they can only be implemented at the cost of adding complexity to the protocol and some risks. So, even though Monero will likely take a portion of Bitcoin's value, it will always be a little more risky than Bitcoin, preventing it from taking over completely. Monero only adds a few more features that are really important, but makes it a little more riskier. Then the lack of features in Bitcoin is truly a feature itself. Cryptocurrencies that try to add even more features than Monero, result in even more riskier networks. So, it's almost imposible to design a better Bitcoin. You can basically only invent Bitcoin once.

1

parakite 6 days ago

Its bitcoin or nothing.

2

DaenyxBerlarys 6 days ago

It's not like bitcoin is not getting updated. (Taproot was just merged into core recently!) It's being done slowly, carefully, and meticulously. I personally don't want a large amount of my money on any other crypto network but bitcoin. Also, one of the biggest things about bitcoin is its monetary policy -- its protocol. Bitcoin is a one-time path-dependent creation that probably doesn't get repeated again on the same scale. Not everything is about technical

4

ChadBitcoiner 6 days ago

No offense, but this is what every newbie thinks. I know that was me too in 2016.

2

the-derpetologist 6 days ago

I’m still a newbie and that’s kind of me. I’ve been thinking “so if Bitcoin can do this then why can’t all these other crypto blockchain coins?” I think I’m starting to get it though and intend to grab a whole BTC while it’s still affordable. I know I’ve wasted more than that amount of fiat cash on rubbish in the past so if it tanks it tanks. If it doesn’t I will own one of something that there are only 21 million of, which everyone wants.

1

blessedbt 6 days ago

What sets Bitcoin's position and value above all is - trust. More people trust it than anything else. You can't buy trust, you can't fake it, you can't make it appear out of nowhere. You have to earn it. It takes years and years of grind. Bitcoin has been kicked in the head and maxed out 24/7 for years. There've been multiple attempts to hijack it. It has shrugged all of it off and is stronger than ever. Nothing, but nothing, will ever earn the same amount of trust. A two second block time means less than nothing in comparison. This is something altcoin obsessives either can't conceive of, or refuse to, but it's the most important and decisive factor by light years. It's meaningless code without it. Trust beats everything.

3

SubjectiveCompass 6 days ago

Learn more about Bitcoin. You're not wrong to feel this way, I did before I looked deeper into it. It would be comparable to saying "I think more advanced internets will end up destroying the internet". It's too late for this next evolution, BTC is the platform for internet money unless a fundamental jump happens.

12

GapeJelly 6 days ago

How have 'more advanced coins' done so far? Every alt spews shit about superior technology but so far none of them are much good for anything. There are coins with specific use cases like XMR beats bitcoin in privacy, but at the expense of security, liquidity, etc. It is more likely btc will catch up to XMR in privacy vs. XMR catching up to btc everywhere else. And XMR is the best I can think of that has any significant advantage over btc, the rest are even worse off.

7

dark_loaf 6 days ago

Yes, you’re wrong. Bitcoin was able to grow below the radar. Any new coins that gain traction but lack the network power will be vulnerable to cyber attacks, now that hackers know how to attack. Bitcoin is the winner

13

nopantstank 6 days ago

Dawg we still at batting practice

24

vitaminBTC 6 days ago

we still at the bat factory

6

Boredguy32 6 days ago

We still a tree

7

jcoinner 6 days ago

We still CO2 blowing in the wind

4

facepalm5000 6 days ago

We still a cloud of interstellar gas after a supernova which has yet to accrete into a terrestrial body

6

ting_jun48 6 days ago

You killed it man, you were supposed to go step by step! Lol

5

facepalm5000 5 days ago

haha. Come on, think bigger. We still hydrogen gas in the star not even gone through fusion to make heavier elements like carbon and oxygen which could be used to make CO2. We still the fiery plasma post-big-bang that has yet to coalesce into neutrons and protons We still the infinite potentiality of zero point energy before the big bang \*\_\*

3

DWhizard 5 days ago

We still just a vague notion in the mind of God.

3

zeycus 5 days ago

We still BEFORE God.

1

Speedmetal666 5 days ago

C-C-C-Combo breaker!

3

oojacoboo 6 days ago

He likes it more now that he has bags.

19

Hefty_Jicama 6 days ago

Bigger bags than you

4

Nossa30 5 days ago

bigger bags than 99.999% of people here

1

fillingstationsushi redditor for 3 months 6 days ago

There you go

0

Mr_Eckert 6 days ago

“Bitcoin has this enormous contingence of really, really smart and sophisticated people who believe in it,” Jones said. “It’s like investing with Steve Jobs and Apple or investing in Google early.”

66

Soonyulnoh2 6 days ago

Early??? Like "early" was what, 3 years ago????

1

jakobbj27 6 days ago

We’re at about 2.4% adoption. We’re about to move from innovators to early adopters.

5

PneumaticInstitution redditor for 6 weeks 6 days ago

> 2.4% adoption Where does this number come from? What does it mean?

1

jakobbj27 6 days ago

Blockchain analysis estimates that bitcoin has 184million total users worldwide. The numbers came from here https://twitter.com/woonomic/status/1319256970226847745?s=21

2

bittabet 6 days ago

Huh...that's a lot more people than I would have thought.

2

jakobbj27 6 days ago

The 184mill figure is all users current and historic so will be a fair bit larger than current users however it’s still very interesting to see how far bitcoin has penetrated and it has a lot further than you might assume at first.

1

PneumaticInstitution redditor for 6 weeks 6 days ago

hmmm... or 4.1% of active internet users.

1

Soonyulnoh2 6 days ago

Soooo........Its $11,000 now? Whens it gonna be $33,000????

0

Boredguy32 6 days ago

When it goes up another 22,000

14

jakobbj27 6 days ago

My feeling is when exchanges run out of reserves for the massive otc trades currently going on.

3

Bitcoin_to_da_Moon 6 days ago

It’s like investing with Steve Jobs and Apple & investing in Google early - at the same time plus Amazon and Tesla. You basically own a piece of the internet of money.

42

poker_saiyan 6 days ago

Does that mean... Bitcoin to da Moon?

13

Boredguy32 6 days ago

Nah...Mars. with Tesla we's goin to Mars, bytches

1

Bitcoin_to_da_Moon 6 days ago

It means, poker_saiyan and Bitcoin_to_da_Moon to da moon. (plus HOS-SKA, no one is left behind)

0

HOS-SKA 6 days ago

I definitely think so, just saiyan.

10

SlagBits 6 days ago

https://www.lamborghini.com/en-en/models/aventador/aventador-svj-roadster They come in whatever colour you want.

3

Fiach_Dubh 6 days ago

video: https://youtu.be/READ1vsMryY

6

patrickstar466 6 days ago

Finally someone other than the usual Pomp or Novagratz

1

cobrakai50 6 days ago

What does he mean when he says he has a “single digit” investment? For someone of his presumed net worth, that sounds pretty small - regardless of the denomination of the digit in question.

7

gubatron 6 days ago

just 1 billion, not much

3

doobur 6 days ago

He's referring to percentage, he's previously said his investment was around 2%

22

Figurativelyryan 6 days ago

Was he referring to a percentage of his total worth, which is quite a lot, or owning less than 10 bitcoin?

4

bittabet 6 days ago

It's of his fund that he runs, not his personal net worth. But he has a lot of his own money in his fund.

3

nebra1 6 days ago

Probably less then 10...

0

SlimyMango 6 days ago

You think that a billionaire hedge fund manager went public about investing in bitcoin after buying about $100,000 worth? That's literally pennies to him hombre, he definitely means 1-5%

4

nebra1 2 days ago

Maybe so...the more these ppl invest the better. ..

1

cobrakai50 6 days ago

Here’s how it was worded in the CNBC article: "I like bitcoin even more now than I did then. I think we are in the first inning of bitcoin and it's got a long way to go," Jones said on CNBC's "Squawk Box" on Thursday. He first revealed his bitcoin investment in May and he said Thursday he holds a "small single-digit investment" in the cryptocurrency.

1

bitusher 6 days ago

This means he has under 5% of is portfolio in Bitcoin, my guess is 1% now or ~53 million usd of BTC (~4077 BTC)

8

FuckAntiMaskers redditor for 2 weeks 5 days ago

Pretty sure I remember him saying "1% or maybe a little bit over 2% now" when he was in the news back in May/June

1

Wolfram_George 6 days ago

Color me surprised, an investor loving BTC when it goes up. The question is: where will he stand when the curtain will fall?

15

thehoesmaketheman 6 days ago

An investor loving Bitcoin when he stands to profit from it* Ftfy

3

greengenerosity 6 days ago

His reasoning is not the price. It is that Bitcoin has the "smartest people in the room". Paraphrasing: >"But what I learned was and what I was so surprised by is that Bitcoin has this enormous contingent of really, really, smart and sophisticated people who believe in it." > >... > >"I never had a inflation hedge where you have a kicker that you also have great intellectual capital behind it" He then compares buying Bitcoin people with Steve Jobs like people and how buying Bitcoin is like buying early tech company stock and of course how it is the first inning (we are early). All the other finance stuff? No Intellectual Capital behind it compared to Bitcoin.

7

AmericanScream 5 days ago

> "But what I learned was and what I was so surprised by is that Bitcoin has this enormous contingent of really, really, smart and sophisticated people who believe in it." Is that the new coded language for *pedophiles?*

1

Wolfram_George 6 days ago

His reasoning **HIS** the price. The intellectual capital he is talking about has never been involved in any way with Bitcoin at all. If he actually did talk about blockchain I would have understood. But BTC? lol. For him, cryptos are just like the NASDAQ and Bitcoin is the first of the class. I do get his point, as he is an investor looking for returns, but please let's not take his words seriously as everybody knows why he joined the party in the first place.

3

greengenerosity 6 days ago

His claims in that video is pretty tame, he claims that he is personally not a big Bitcoin supporter or believer, his wording is that is not a Bitcoin Standard Bearer, and that his investment is small, single digit (I assume Single Digit Bitcoins). The funny thing of course is that he makes no claims about the magic of BlockChain or the future of money, just that Bitcoin has some really, really, smart people believing in it. I don't know him, or his story, so maybe my first impressions are off. Maybe he knew that talking about Bitcoin now that the price is up just means publicity, so he does the whole "Great people in that thing, really great, like Steve Jobs, like early tech".

2

ConsistentLab5603 6 days ago

Given his age and background he doesn't know enough about technology to understand who are the smart people and who are the charlatans.

3

greengenerosity 6 days ago

True, what I don't get is the idea that super smart and resourceful people that have good financial insights are mucking about in blockchain land instead of actually climbing the ranks in the financial markets. No doubt that it takes genuine skill and talent to do tech stuff in general, blockchain stuff included, but it is not possible to look at how even incredible genius in one field translates to being a great investor or financial advisor. People correctly assumes that the average hedge fund manager is a lousy software architect despite being smart, hard working and talented, but somehow the idea that passionate tech nerds should be able to be great at finance and have special insights outside of their domain spread.

1

ConsistentLab5603 6 days ago

>People correctly assumes that the average hedge fund manager is a lousy software architect despite being smart, hard working and talented, but somehow the idea that passionate tech nerds should be able to be great at finance and have special insights outside of their domain spread. Yes I agree with this.

2

Wolfram_George 6 days ago

He’s just making a big jump on the BTC bandwagon and using his exposure to increase his revenues. All his other talks about Steve Jobs and all I won’t even bother replying to that

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The "Mom" indicator has switched to bullish.

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fresheneesz 6 days ago

How are descriptor wallets backed up? You can't simply backup the seed words for that kind of thing right? You also need the script. So backup would generally be: back up your seed as normal + backup the digital file containing the descriptor in a number of places. Is that right?

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achow101 6 days ago

Since Bitcoin Core never had seed words for a backup, the backup of a Bitcoin Core wallet remains the same as before. It's just copying the wallet.dat file to your backup location. For other wallets, the backup would just be the descriptor itself. Since it is a string, it can be largely treated like any other string backup method.

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fresheneesz 6 days ago

Interesting. Its not great for wallet security to only have a digital file backup. If you encrypt the file you're safe, but it makes it harder to do things like inheritance. If you don't encrypt the file, you're super vulnerable to theft. I'd like to see bitcoin core support standard HD wallets, and have an additional descriptor file with non-sensitive script info for the rest of it, so you can back up your see on metal while still storing the rest of the descriptor data with redundant digital files.

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CoinSocialStory redditor for 3 weeks 6 days ago

Thank you for updating!

3

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1

jbatch 6 days ago

That was one of the most poorly written articles I’ve ever read.

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achow101 6 days ago

Thanks for the feedback. What about it do you find to be poorly written? Any constructive criticisms for how it can be improved?

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TheGreatMuffin 6 days ago

You can find today's Daily Discussion Thread here: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/jfutn2/daily_discussion_october_22_2020/

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igadjeed 6 days ago

Berkeley DB wallet files can be easily corrupted

Only because most devs don't bother implementing transactions - oh we'll ignore that, it's only for multi-user / giant enterprises, and the logging is such a big overhead

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achow101 6 days ago

By default, everything in BDB is a transaction. So we do, in fact, use transactions. The problem is that BDB does not guarantee that when a write completes that everything was written to the database file. Instead it only guarantees it is in at least one of the database file or the log files. Unfortunately everyone has been trained to only care about the database file and not the log files. In the event of an unclean shutdown, if the user only copies the database file (e.g. for a backup, or maybe to move to a system that doesn't crash, etc.) , or deletes the log files, then data may be lost.

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reddit4485 1 week ago

Bitcoin has been around over 10 years and has a market cap over $200 million. Why hasn't Core released version 1.0 or higher?

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Kalin101 6 days ago

A great talk on the matter: https://youtu.be/Kh5ASYzt3dU

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achow101 1 week ago

Because the version number doesn't matter. 1.0 is a human significant number and making a release with the version 1.0 would imply some level of completeness or finality. In reality, with our time based release schedule, such a version number is meaningless, but people would assign meaning to it anyways. If anything, a version numbering change would only be to drop the leading `0.`. There's no reason to change the version number anyways as it isn't really significant except as a counter.

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maxcoiner 6 days ago

Well it would matter to investors. It would be another benchmark that they use to determine robustness. (No longer in beta) I'm hoping that after the privacy upgrades are all in place the next version is 1.0.0

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GlassMeccaNow 6 days ago

Those are some bozo investors. Fuck em and fuck those who care about em. I hope Bitcoin Core only approaches version 1.0: Bitcoin Core 0.999999999999999993

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maxcoiner 6 days ago

Fine by me as well, I don't know why I'm getting all the downvotes here. Just saying that most people don't think like that. Why try to fight the trend if going with the trend means more investments faster?

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Bitcoin_to_da_Moon 6 days ago

u can fork it and call it version "10.0 Cash"

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BeeCache 6 days ago

Sounds like a choice investors need to make for themselves. Bitcoin version number is meaningless in that context...

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maxcoiner 6 days ago

Obviously the technical side is meaningless, but you can't tell an investor what to think. They're already going to assume any software under version 1.0 is some kind of beta. That's just experience talking.

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BeeCache 6 days ago

I would never tell an investor what to think about Bitcoin, since it's not a traditional investment and could be argued it will never not be in beta

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reddit4485 6 days ago

Actually, there is an order to software versioning in which version numbers that start with a zero are experimental (e.g. version 0.21). With a market cap of over $200 million it's hardly experimental. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_versioning

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achow101 6 days ago

And that is not the case for Bitcoin Core. Not every software's version numbers mean the same thing. In Bitcoin, the leading `0.` is meaningless. So is a 1.0, but people will attribute meaning to it anyways. The fact of the matter is that no one really cares what the version number is. The current system isn't broken, and changing it will only confuse people. There's no need to make a 1.0, nor is there a need to change the version numbering scheme. Obviously what we use doesn't follow any existing standards for versioning so meanings from those should not be applied to the Bitcoin Core versioning scheme.

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reddit4485 6 days ago

The general consensus with software writing is anything that begins with a zero is still experimental. When you increase a whole integer that is a major upgrade. Any changes less than one are minor revisions. It's not like we have windows 0.10. It's windows 10. Even non-programmers know this. You can say it's meaningless all you want but that doesn't make it so. If it's common knowledge than it's not meaningless. If we're arguing about it it's not meaningless.

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PM_me_loving_words 6 days ago

And before windows 10 it was windows vista, 7, XP, 2000, NT, 3.1 I know I left some out. I don't even remember where ME goes.

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lowercaseCapitalist 1 week ago

Because its still being built.

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yogibreakdance 1 week ago

Wow so if I open the new bitcoin core, my old wallet will be converted automatically ?

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achow101 1 week ago

No, you will need to manually convert it. There will be a RPC command and a GUI dialog for doing the conversion. Note that the migration hasn't been implemented yet.

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Pantamis 1 week ago

Thanks for your amazing work on Bitcoin wallets, Core in particular !

The PSBTs changed everything ! And descriptor wallets will make Core the most general wallet ever :)

When multiprocess will be done it will be very cool to use the Core wallet remotely with the node ^^

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BubblegumTitanium 6 days ago

If you have iOS you can use fullynoded which basically does this - it uses libwally so its pretty well tested

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CoinSocialStory redditor for 2 weeks 6 days ago

Thank you for updating!

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brianddk 1 week ago

Wow... Thx for the update. Them's some big changes. Hopefully SQLite might come with some performance boosts and possibly less chain state IO thrashing, but that is just speculation on my part.

Any fears of the SQLite dependency breaking some of the odder cross compilation targets? I'm looking to do a full node an an old android debian chroot as my next adventure.

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achow101 1 week ago

SQLite is really widely used. I wouldn't expect there to be many problems. I would actually expect it to be more available than BDB is.

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zooko - @zooko

RT @mineZcash: @PayPal gains a @NYDFS Bitlicense and will start supporting Cryptocurrencies! So far...BTC, BCH, ETH and LTC... BUT, do you know what other Crypto is also approved by the NYDFS? Zcash! #ZEC https://t.co/TxPxMSny9S

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Jack Mallers - @JackMallers

"All the things that we have in our life are dematerializing onto a software network." - @michael_saylor Today's @PayPal news is extremely bullish. However, @PayPal is giving their users exposure to #Bitcoin the asset, but they've completely missed #Bitcoin the network. https://t.co/QvOoScMUDd

0 1

Chris Burniske - @cburniske

RT @PayPal: Today, we are announcing the launch of a new service that will enable customers to buy, hold and sell #Cryptocurrency directly from their PayPal account. https://t.co/QS6JRmG9hs https://t.co/uHBatfZkbF

3443 8348

Bobby Belev - @bbelev

RT @PayPal: Today, we are announcing the launch of a new service that will enable customers to buy, hold and sell #Cryptocurrency directly from their PayPal account. https://t.co/QS6JRmG9hs https://t.co/uHBatfZkbF

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Hunter Horsley - @HHorsley

PayPal's launch today is probably the most important development of 2020 for crypto. * 350M+ users get access * Access for 26M Merchants * Support for more than just BTC Impact won't all play out this week. But this fundamentally levels up the space. https://t.co/tyRBqSKxdG https://t.co/b3OhqEs2c8

4 51

Marco Santori - @msantoriESQ

RT @PayPal: Today, we are announcing the launch of a new service that will enable customers to buy, hold and sell #Cryptocurrency directly from their PayPal account. https://t.co/QS6JRmG9hs https://t.co/uHBatfZkbF

3074 7360

Collin Crypto - @CollinCrypto

PayPal Launches New Service Enabling Users to Buy, Hold and Sell #bitcoin #ethereum #litecoin #bitcoincash. "There are no service fees when buying or selling cryptocurrency through December 31, 2020" **You can't withdraw your coins anywhere at this time https://t.co/3FGWit6kLd

0 0

Linda Xie - @ljxie

RT @PayPal: Today, we are announcing the launch of a new service that will enable customers to buy, hold and sell #Cryptocurrency directly from their PayPal account. https://t.co/QS6JRmG9hs https://t.co/uHBatfZkbF

1837 4188

CZ - @cz_binance

Hello 300 million more people to #crypto! This is about 3x of our current market size? If I have to guess. https://t.co/FpyHaGk7QG

114 514

Jameson Lopp - @lopp

@BitsBeTrippin @PeterMcCormack @OGBTC https://t.co/U3kExQHFDn

1 2

luis buenaventura - @helloluis

RT @iamjosephyoung: Official statement from PayPal enabling crypto purchases https://t.co/T2651A7e4H

14 45

Meltem Demirors - @Melt_Dem

i won’t rest until i can margin my $TSLA shares and #litecoin to buy a Peloton bike using my social credit score! https://t.co/bsCq7IRPRE

2 53

Joseph Young - @iamjosephyoung

Official statement from PayPal enabling crypto purchases https://t.co/T2651A7e4H

31 97

Frank Chaparro - @fintechfrank

"Beginning in early 2021, PayPal customers will be able to use their cryptocurrency holdings as a funding source to pay at PayPal's 26 million merchants around the globe." https://t.co/4WJf9HvuBd

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OrcusDementi 6 days ago

PayPal... Das waren doch die, die WikiLeaks, etc. von ihren Spenden ", getrennt" haben, weil es die US Regierung so wollte. PayPal sucks.

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kuhlimoo 6 days ago

Und dann ist Wikileaks 2011 auf Bitcoin geswitcht und hat sich dadurch eine goldene Nase verdient.

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nudelsalat3000 6 days ago

Weil da auch sehr viel Verirrungen rumgeistert wie es lief ist die letzte Folgen der Anstalt auch eine der besten ;) https://www.zdf.de/comedy/die-anstalt/die-anstalt-vom-29-september-2020-100.html

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Gehirnkrampf 1 week ago

launcht

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naonak 1 week ago

Erlauchte Währung

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dig1taldash 1 week ago

Endlich, wünsche ich mir wirklich schon seit E Ewigkeiten. Wenn dann mit Ethereum noch Geldstreams für die breite Masse bereit gestellt werden.. uiuiui

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random_word_sequence 1 week ago

Der Spiegel schreibt: "Und auch auf Bitcoin wirkte sich das neue Geschäft positiv aus: Das Unternehmen ist so wertvoll wie seit Juli 2019 nicht mehr. "

Immer wieder eindrucksvoll, wie planlos manche Journalisten da noch sind.

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Chocolate_Bitter 6 days ago

Haben die das Kommentarlos geändert, oder übersehe ich was? Gute Medien schreiben unter den Artikel "In einer früheren Version des Artikels stand...", Transparenz und Ehrlichkeit und so...

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Fel100 1 week ago

Kannst du erklären was an der Aussage fragwürdig ist? Ich kenne mich auf dem Gebiet leider nicht aus.

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random_word_sequence 6 days ago

Bitcoin ist dezentral organisiert, dh es gibt keine zentrale Leitung oder einen Besitzer. Dies ist ganz ähnlich wie beim Internet: das Netzwerk ist die Summe aller seiner Teilnehmer; es gibt keine Firma "Internet".

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Numai_theOnlyOne 1 week ago

Ich glaube das Bitcoin als Unternehmen bezeichnet wird. Bin aber nicht sicher ob das ein typerror von Spiegel war und sie PayPal meinten. Ich mein Bitcoin ein Unternehmen bezeichnen ist so als wäre Euro eine Fabrik.

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IsaRos 1 week ago

SPON halt.

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Atlas_from_the_North 1 week ago

"Journalisten"

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oaga_strizzi 1 week ago

"Bots"

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IsaRos 1 week ago

Praktikanten-Bots.

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jason_st85 1 week ago

Ich hoffe, die Leute, die jetzt wie wahnsinnig Bitcoin kaufen, erinnern sich noch, was im Januar 18 abging. Aber wer weiß 🤗

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Kitchen_Gun 1 week ago

All in, Baby!

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-PeePeePee- 1 week ago

Der Preis geht hoch und dann geht er runter

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Auswaschbar 6 days ago

Teuer kaufen, billig verkaufen.

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Nessaiy 1 week ago

Bitcoin ist wie riskanteres Gold :)

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[deleted] 1 week ago

[deleted]

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Nessaiy 1 week ago

Bitcoin doch auch. wenns keiner mehr will ist der wert 0. Innerer Wert paar 1en und 0en. Kann doch theoretisch auch mit gold passieren. dann ist es halt ein gelber stein.

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Notthenormie 1 week ago

>Kann doch theoretisch auch mit gold passieren Ja theoretisch kanns mit allem passieren, mitt Bitcoin ist es aber viel wahrscheinlicher. Bei Gold werden doch nicht alle nach 100ten von Jahren einfach sagen, dass es keinen Wert mehr hat, da es auch bestimmte Anwendungsbereiche gibt für welche Gold nunmal nötig ist. Aber bei Bitcoin reichen schon paar Ereignisse und es wird überflüssig

0

IsaRos 1 week ago

> gelber stein Gelbes **Metall**.

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myhaxdontwork Gold | QC: CC 43 1 week ago

Next up... PayPal Coin

1

biba8163 I am pretty confident we are the new wealthy elite 1 week ago

It's really the FinTech companies like Square, PayPal, Robinhood, etc that have been and are going to bring crypto to the masses while banks have been fighting crypto, blocking purchases, labeling it as ponzis and criminal activity. Fintech is eventually going to kill traditional banking and adoption of crypto is great news.

1

Wulkingdead Platinum | QC: CC 108 1 week ago

What a suprise /s

I think this classic phrase fits here perfectly: First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Absolutely great news, now the normies will come.

1

olihowells 1 week ago

This is great news, very curious about what cryptos they will offer

1

Midwest_Parrothead Gold | QC: SC 23, CC 17 1 week ago

...initially featuring Bitcoin, Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash and Litecoin, directly within the PayPal digital wallet...

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Osemka8 Gold | QC: CC 66 1 week ago

Absolutely phenomenal. Things we need for mass adoption.

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Zestyclose_Ad4257 Redditor for 1 months. 1 week ago

Looking like a trend now. Things could get very fast from here.

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terrim_arque Redditor for 6 months. 1 week ago

You know it's not major firm when they don't include it in the title ;)

1

Technologhee 1 week ago

It is in the title

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terrim_arque Redditor for 6 months. 1 week ago

The companies name is "UK-listed firm"?

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Technologhee 1 week ago

Mode.....

1

terrim_arque Redditor for 6 months. 1 week ago

I'm blind. Thanks.

1

Technologhee 1 week ago

Haha

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minimally__invasive redditor for 3 months 1 week ago

But...

Don't want to disappoint anyone but they want to buy 10% of their cash. Their cash balance by end of June was £722k which is $815k. 10% of that is approximately 6.7 BTC. Good PR move though, congrats

https://twitter.com/lawmaster/status/1318845159342297088

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Bitcoin_to_da_Moon 1 week ago

good catch

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Wulkingdead Platinum | QC: CC 108 1 week ago

This is good for bitcoin! But seriously, so many firms investing in crypto is amazing!

2

sentokoo Gold | QC: CC 63 1 week ago

I could scoff at news stories based on restaurants and other small businesses putting their cash reserves into Bitcoin. On the other hand, it's never really happened before and likely represents a fundamental shifting in how businesses choose to store wealth.

Pretty sure even if Bitcoin crashes, they just write it off as an investment loss against their revenue. Win-win.

3

TDavid13 Redditor for 5 months. 1 week ago

Ahhh.. Love seeing this. Can't give me more bullish vibes than this lol

2

Danny-boy6030 1 week ago

It might only be a small sum, but if enough companies decide to make an investment of that size, it will mount up very quickly.

3

SenatusSPQR Platinum | QC: CC 160 | NANO 11 1 week ago

To give some more background:

Mode Global Holdings is a UK-based fintech that has, amongst others, the Bitcoin Jar in their product line-up (link).

In their latest filed report, they reported cash holdings of approximately £600,000. 10% of that would translate to approximately 6 Bitcoin.

Good news in terms of a company putting Bitcoin on their balance sheet, but I feel like they're doing this more for the publicity to draw attention to their Bitcoin Jar product than anything else. Which still isn't a bad thing, if it generates interest (ha-ha) all the better.

6

blablablablabla78 Tin 1 week ago

HUGE

1

rBitcoinMod 1 week ago

Similar content has already been submitted several times. Please check the front page of r/Bitcoin and r/Bitcoin/new for previous submissions to help keep repetition to a minimum. You can also try using the search bar. Thank you.

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writtey Tin 1 week ago

This is why Bitcoin

Faced with the challenges of COVID and with UK interest rates at the lowest level in the Bank of England's 326-year history, our confidence in the long-term value of Bitcoin has only increased

1

Immediate-Host 1 week ago

They are coming...

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squashieeater 1 week ago

Ouch

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FixShitUp 1 week ago

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I hope u/endlessmorning is taking notes!

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CryptoMods Bronze 1 week ago

Hello, your post was removed because your account is less than 50 days old or you do not have the required 500 comment karma to make post submissions.

1

KX9lol 1 week ago

Does Bitcoin have decentralized mixing, or are these just centralized services? Bitcoin is a pretty terrible coin to use for privacy reasons.

I know Zcoin protocol implements decentralized mixing and other privacy coins copy the idea. There is also XMR which is becoming the de facto privacy coin.

No clue how the government will even attempt to regulate the real privacy coins.

0

AutoModerator 1 week ago

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1

KarstaaMauka 1 week ago

First? Didn't Ross get 20 years added to his sentence for running a bitcoin mixer?

0

SugarAdamAli 1 week ago

Can someone explain what a bitcoin mixer is?

1

chipfox 1 week ago

First you deposit your butts into a dodgy website, even by buttcoin standards, then you receive less butts that can be directly tracked back to a dark net pedo ring. And that's it, clean butts.

2

cactusgenie 1 week ago

This is big! Can't wait to see the ripple effects of this rock Bitcoin to it's core!!

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SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor 1 week ago

Relevant Hacker News thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24829158

Essential reading on why Monero devs are not conducting money transmission by releasing software: https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20Guidance%20CVC%20FINAL%20508.pdf

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SPAWNBUG 1 week ago

What are the implications for Wasabi and samouri?

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lacksfish 1 week ago

>What are the implications for Wasabi and samouri? gg well played. Honestly though, they should stop while they can, or move to Thailand.

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john_r365 1 week ago

And to zero in on a specific section from the Fincen document, see Section 4.5.1(b) Quote: “An anonymizing software provider is not a money transmitter. FinCEN regulations exempt from the definition of money transmitter those persons providing “the delivery, communication, or network access services used by a money transmitter to support money transmission services.” This is because suppliers of tools (communications, hardware, or software) that may be utilized in money transmission, like anonymizing software, are engaged in trade and not money transmission. By contrast, a person that utilizes the software to anonymize the person’s own transactions will be either a user or a money transmitter, depending on the purpose of each transaction. For example, a user would employ the software when paying for goods or services on its own behalf, while a money transmitter would use it to engage as a business in the acceptance and transmission of value as a transmittor’s or intermediary’s financial institution.”

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jonas_h Author of 'Why cryptocurrencies' 1 week ago

Decentralized mixing schemes or on-chain obfuscation aren't included in the money transmitter laws so Monero isn't affected.

17

happyscrappy IT Specialist 1 week ago

Who could have thought that a service explicitly not designed for money laundering but completely perfect for it because it is designed to hide the origins of funds would end up being against anti-money laundering laws?

11

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1

qznc_bot2 1 week ago

There is a discussion on Hacker News, but feel free to comment here as well.

1

propter_hoc 1 week ago

This is a $60 million civil penalty and finding of fact from FinCEN, the money laundering & terrorist financing authority. Harmon appears to still be facing up to 17.5 years of prison on federal criminal charges as well.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/02/13/bitcoin-larry-dean-harmon-indicted-cryptocurrency-money-laundering-scheme/4746978002/

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SnapshillBot 1 week ago

Ooh lala, good job on bashing Bitcoin. How to disrespect a great innovation.

Snapshots:

First Bitcoin “Mixer” Penalized by ... - archive.org, archive.today*

I am just a simple bot, not a moderator of this subreddit | bot subreddit | contact the maintainers

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varikonniemi 1 week ago

This is the first innovative service in lightning space i have seen for a long time. Great job for making the vision one step closer to realization!

2

PanneKopp 1 week ago

sorry, I still do not get why I should ty up some funds in LN just to receive a payment - this is completely the opposite of what Bitcoin was meant to be

1

VillaCaruso Redditor for less than 30 days 1 week ago

LN is bank 3.0, stop shilling this crap pls.

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Danny1878 1 week ago

Would this work for merchants too who want to accept lightning payments? If channels are just opened up on the fly as required, it should work right? Or is there a limit on the amount of channels etc?

1

king-only 1 week ago

It works in POS mode as well...

2

Leithm 1 week ago

There is nothing wrong with lightning in principle. There is plenty wrong with a 1mb block size cap.

I think there is about 1,000 times as much crypto locked into the defi network if I am not mistaken?

3

3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 1 week ago

> There is nothing wrong with lightning in principle. um what? - Can't send money to someone who's offline like Bitcoin can. That's a regression in features. - Isn't backed by Bitcoin's record hashrate. That's why they're working on 3rd party watchtower services to watch over your money. So you're sacrificing security for low fees. - Has send limits based on your peers send capacity. /u/N0tMyRealAcct just found out the service he's shilling is capped to $450 - Merchants need to continously topoff their side of the channel... just to be able to keep receiving payments. Does that sound how you use money today? If not it's a regression. the list goes on. Lightning is literally a regression to Bitcoin's feature in every way AND you sacrifice onchain security for low fees. What a joke.

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N0tMyRealAcct 1 week ago

u/leithm, beware of this user. He is intentionally trolling I believe and ruining any productive discussions in here with aggressive statements. Not interested in discussions at all. Only suppressing.

0

3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 1 week ago

no one falls for your lies. Here's /u/N0tMyRealAcct getting caught lying twice in the same claim then dropping the conversation when caught lying: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/jbh8yf/bitcoin_cash_as_the_world_currency_what_it_takes/g9cwkac/ Did anyone in this thread fall for your lies?

1

N0tMyRealAcct 1 week ago

I dropped the discussion because you are nasty and are intentionally trying to misunderstand. Note to others, I’m willing to continue the discussion with you in the thread he linked to. I’m just avoiding this guy from now on.

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3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 1 week ago

> I dropped the discussion because you are nasty and are intentionally trying to misunderstand. that's a lie: /u/N0tMyRealAcct summary of lies so far: - Bitcoin average blocksize is 1.2MB NOT 2.1MB - Channel factories might save anywhere between 55% - 90% in blocksize, NOT your claimed 96%. And to get a 90% channel savings you'd literally need to open hundreds of LN channels at once, which is NOT what the typical LN user does.

0

OverlordQ 1 week ago

When Bob wants to receive a payment but lacks inbound capacity, his Breez app recognizes the lack and issues two invoices using the same preimage: one to Alice requesting payment and a second to the Breez LSP.

Instead of limiting a single channel to 1M sats, Breez now limits the sum of all a user’s local balances to 4M sats.

So a whole lot of complexity and involving middlemen to only be able to send $450.

And you're trying to sell this as a good thing?

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N0tMyRealAcct 1 week ago

> So a whole lot of complexity and involving middlemen to only be able to send $450. That is an arbitrary constant. But even if it wasn’t, Lightning allows for a lot of new use cases. There are trade offs but there are many more possibilities. Lightning is intended for you to buy chewing gum. It works well for that.

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3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 1 week ago

wow $450 send limit. Why would anyone want to use LN when it's not even backed by Bitcoin's record hashrate AND be capped to such joke limits.

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N0tMyRealAcct 1 week ago

If you want a bigger transaction the wallet can fall back onto an on-chain transaction. No issues here. It is backed by Bitcoins hash rate. As a protocol the Lightning protocol is cryptographically as strong as Bitcoin. Much unlike 0-conf which isn’t backed by hash rate at all. But that is as far as I will let you troll me away from the topic at hand.

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3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 1 week ago

> If you want a bigger transaction the wallet can fall back onto an on-chain transaction. No issues here. And pay high fees again? why? > As a protocol the Lightning protocol is cryptographically as strong as Bitcoin. Yeah that's why in Bitcoin you don't check in on your money because hashrate secures it, while in Lightning you do check in on your money because no hashrate secures it. Care to tell me why watchtowers are a thing if hashrate secures it? just yesterday /u/N0tMyRealAcct was caught pushing lies and twisting numbers and dropped the conversation after 2 lies: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/jbh8yf/bitcoin_cash_as_the_world_currency_what_it_takes/g9cwkac/

5

N0tMyRealAcct 1 week ago

Beware all, this user is I believe intentionally trying to poison any productive discussions.

0

3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 1 week ago

You got caught pushing lies yesterday. You claimed blocks are 2.1MB when they're actually 1.2Mb and claim in the future schnorr and channel factories will produce 96% saving, when it's closer to 50% rofl https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/jbh8yf/bitcoin_cash_as_the_world_currency_what_it_takes/g9cwkac/ your own words /u/N0tMyRealAcct

2

alturigo 1 week ago

“Inbound liquidity remains an issue, but it is now an issue for engineers and developers to worry about, not users.”

These guys get it.

3

Danny1878 1 week ago

Amazing stuff.

2

hungdoge 1 week ago

How do I download this and play with it? Can't find it

1

king-only 1 week ago

Android: https://play.google.com/apps/testing/com.breez.client iOS: https://testflight.apple.com/join/wPju2Du7

1

bitusher 1 week ago

Excellent.

This is what it is like using breez all day long -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOmUpp3J9Ck

2

almkglor 1 week ago

Zero-reserve makes theft attempts costless. It is fine if Breez server is demanding 0 reserve but the client is allowed to demand non-zero reserve, but if Breez does require the client to demand 0 reserve, it allows Breez to steal funds.

Though as noted in their zero-conf channels, Breez is already in a position to potentially steal funds from users when the user receives via a zero-conf channel that has not deeply confirmed yet. This is fine if e.g. the user is buying Bitcoins using a fiat ramp with Breez directly (the fiat part is always tr*st-requiring anyway), but not so much for general payments. Though as noted as well this is time-bound, once the channel is deeply confirmed it won't matter. Zero-reserve is more concerning, unless Breez allows clients to demand non-zero reserve while demanding zero-reserve itself.

1

king-only 1 week ago

Breez has 1% channel reserve, the risk is entirely on the Breez end.

1

almkglor 1 week ago

Okay, thanks for clarifying, the article does not inform this.

1

king-only 1 week ago

np. You were right to comment. Since we already reduced the channel reserve (only on the client end) to a near-dust value before this update, I didn't see a need to explain it, but maybe I should add it.

1

almkglor 1 week ago

Yes. To those who stumble on this thread: note that removing the reserve on the client side only makes theft attempts *costless*, but not necessarily *successful*. Breez presumably can afford to run their nodes 24/7 with near 100% uptime and presumably has some kind of watchtower setup, so even if clients could theoretically drain their channel to 0 and then attempt to rewind time to when their channel had more at no risk to themselves, they would still not succeed in practice often enough to hurt Breez. So this is an acceptable policy for Breez to follow, assuming they have good redundancy and so on.

2

infernalr00t 1 week ago

Right now LN wallets are doing all the boring work so we can move stuff in a few years.

Congrats.

5

3andahalfacres 1 week ago

Can I send money to someone who's offline like Bitcoin Cash can?

Am I capped to certain send limits or uncapped like Bitcoin Cash?

Is Lightning backed by Bitcoin's hashrate or must I periodically sign in to prevent theft or eventually hire a 3rd party watchtower service?

5

fresheneesz 1 week ago

I love Breez. Such an easy app. The main thing I want it to do tho is run an android service that listens for attempted direct payments so I can pay someone directly without requiring them to take out their phone. Then it would truly be a replacement for venmo.

I have a couple questions:

A. What fees does Breez pay to open channels for its users? Like, how is it calculated and what are the average costs it takes on?

B. Why not splice in new balance into the same channel rather than creating new channels? Wouldn't that reduce channel complexity as well as giving more optimal avenues for adding funds to a channel?

1

king-only 1 week ago

Thank you! We have the Lightning Rod to implement for offline payments: https://medium.com/breez-technology/introducing-lightning-rod-2e0a40d3e44a Splicing isn't yet implemented. There are advantages to working with multiple channels like not being dependent on a specific peer. We are going to add 3rd party LSPs into Breez, so multi channel is important. Now that we have MPP, it's much less complicated to manage.

4

fresheneesz 1 week ago

> Lightning Rod I see that article is from a year ago. However I couldn't find any way to pay someone while their app wasn't open in March or April. When was that incorporated into the app? How do I use it? > We are going to add 3rd party LSPs into Breez, so multi channel is important. > not being dependent on a specific peer ... add 3rd party LSPs into Breez Gotcha, very cool!

1

king-only 1 week ago

We didn't yet implement it... Soon I hope...

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Bitcoin_to_da_Moon 1 week ago

after having routed hundreds of thousands of transactions over thousands of channels

that gives a hint at how many transactions are happening in the whole LN space - ALOT! and nothing is recorded, nothing has to touch the mainchain and we all get solid privacy.

5

zv099 redditor for 4 weeks 1 week ago

When do you think we Breez will be out of beta mode and we can just download it from the app store?

2

king-only 1 week ago

Let's see how the RC goes... EOY hopefully...

3

zv099 redditor for 4 weeks 1 week ago

Jesus, this really is amazing! I was a Lightning skeptic in the past but this is a LOT of work and is exactly what's needed to make it work seamlessly.

Anyone still doubting Lightning in good faith should look at all the work like this. Most people won't so it's an uphill battle for a while but it's clearly working and will win out.

LSP...does that stand for lightning service provider?

12

king-only 1 week ago

Thank you ❤️ And yes: https://medium.com/breez-technology/introducing-lightning-service-providers-fe9fb1665d5f

4

Immediate-Host 1 week ago

this is what we need to get lightning mainstream, awesome work and article, I liked it a lot.

!lntip 5000

14

king-only 1 week ago

Thank you ❤️

4

lntipbot 1 week ago

Hi u/Immediate-Host, thanks for tipping u/king-only **5000** satoshis! *** *[^(More info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/lntipbot/wiki/index) ^| [^(Balance)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=balance&message=!balance) ^| [^(Deposit)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=deposit&message=!deposit 10000) ^| [^(Withdraw)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=withdraw&message=!withdraw put_invoice_here) ^| ^(Something wrong? Have a question?) [^(Send me a message)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=drmoore718)*

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trynewideas - @trynewideas 1 week ago

> Another example is business productivity apps architected as web services. Early products like Salesforce were easier to access and cheaper to maintain than their on-premise counterparts. Modern productivity apps like Google Docs, Figma, and Slack focus on things you simply couldn’t do before, like real-time collaboration and deep integrations with other apps.

I'm not sure I'd consider any of these brand new things, even in the context of cloud nativity. CSCW works in particular go back to the mid-80s! They aren't new things, but iterations on old things -- the iterative gap is so large that they _feel_ new, but the changes they provided improved accessibility to existing functionality, not innovative new functionality.

- Networked CRMs were preceded by so, so many database frontends.

- Google Docs was bought-not-made, and its components were also preceded by peer-to-peer collaborative editing tools outside of the web browser (SubEthaEdit, but also Instant Update, Aspects, and other early 90s/00s groupware suites).

- Collaborative drawing and design software go all the way back to Xerox PARC projects like Videodraw.

- Slack wasn't even first of its breed!

GCA10 - @GCA10 1 week ago

Presumably DOTB and DBNT should be pitched to investors -- and funded -- in very different ways.

Doing old things better is very amenable to metrics, lifetime value of customer, market-adoption forecasts, cost of customer acquisition, etc. This is the land of venture money with milestones and ever-growing rounds as success unfolds. (Or asphyxiation if success doesn't happen.)

Doing brand new things probably is far more likely to start via bootstrapping, passion projects, university research and other areas where open-ended curious inquiry is tolerated better. Dixon (OP) loosely acknowledges this when he writes that entrepreneurs "usually spend many years deeply immersed in the underlying technology before they have their key insights."

Eventually the path forward will be clear enough that the VC/metrics folks can show up for later financing rounds and do their thing. But I'll argue that venture's metrics-driven feed-or-starve system is more likely to mess up this early exploration than to help it.

Even though VCs will insist that they are equally good at both.

rossdavidh - @rossdavidh 1 week ago

"The most common mistake people make when evaluating new technologies is to focus too much on the “doing old things better” category."

While I get what they're driving at, I think there are good reasons to focus on this; you have some plausible chance of getting it right. The track record of people, even really smart people who work in technology, being able to predict the 'brand new things' that technology will be used for, is awful. Plus, if you want to get the technology up and running, it needs to get used for something old (better) first. If the early moviemakers hadn't made play-like movies first, they might never have learned enough about film to make movies that weren't like that.

Just because the early uses of a technology are doing old things better, but the later brand new things turn out to be a bigger deal, doesn't mean the 'old things better' phase was a mistake. It is probably necessary.

shahbaby - @shahbaby 1 week ago

I used to wonder why there's always a constant flood of new new technologies, frameworks, products, etc. instead of improvements over existing solutions.

Now I believe I know why; it's about growth for the business, at all levels. New technology may give the business a competitive edge but more importantly it will give the developers who created it as well as those who learn it, a career boast.

This is why we get things like software updates for a UI that no one asked for.

In the end, the core idea is that "good enough" is never enough. Because improvements, not maintenance, drive careers forward.

altacc - @altacc 1 week ago

Also known as sustaining innovation vs disruptive innovation.

When you’re embedded in a technology or business it’s harder to come up with something totally new, your perspective is often limited by your situation (everything is a nail when you have a hammer). As something brand new can also be damaging to the current business model, it feels uncomfortable.

Often you need somebody with the right mix of experience and independence (plus enough capital) to create something truly disruptive.

megameter - @megameter 1 week ago

You can market your end results as an old thing, but if it's ever the case that you aren't introducing a thing new to that market, you have a speculative hot potato, not a good business. If the neighborhood already has five boba shops, the sixth one that opens is facing a lot of competition.

Which in some respects doesn't mean you have to be innovative at any point, just well timed and positioned. Underserved niches often love "more of the old stuff" if it brings back something they thought was lost. And bringing back the old stuff can be a gamble just as much as doing a groundbreaking thing; in that case, having a way of doing it better is a great derisk.

ksec - @ksec 1 week ago

How do we define new things though?

Search Engine, Smartphone, Digital Cameras, PCs what else? All of the leader in those categories were Doing Old Things Better.

It wasn't about Doing Old or New. It was simply about the timing and Roadmap. Apple Newton had all the right idea, but the technology was far from ready and 15 years ahead of its time.

Netflix? Remember there was a War between Windows Media, MPEG and RealVideo before the days of Flash Video Streaming?

To me, doing new things is Invention. Doing old things better is innovation. At the end of the day, all it matter if there is enough Value creation, it seems to me DOTB or DBNT is the wrong question to ask.

aabhay - @aabhay 1 week ago

What are some examples in the DBNT category that created unicorn startups? I know lots of DBNT that happened inside of large companies (e.g. Bell Labs). What are some examples of cases where the companies were able to create massive market share from scratch?

Common examples of DBNT were really just DOTB:

Google -> not the first search engine

Apple -> not the first computer/music player/touch phone

Spotify -> not the first music streaming platform

Nvidia -> not the first GPU

maverickJ - @maverickJ 1 week ago

Sometimes you just have to copy what worked for someone else in their venture and apply it to your own venture. I know that the world tells us that we need to be original; that we need to come up with new ideas to apply to our lives, careers and businesses; that we are special. However, I believe that sometimes, we can achieve tremendous success not by trying to come up with new ideas but by leveraging ideas that have already been tested by someone else.

The article https://leveragethoughts.substack.com/p/originality-is-not-t... provides a case study.

rvr_ - @rvr_ 1 week ago

I don't believe in 100% original work. Everything is build upon the past. Doing new things will always be some form of doing old things better.

ryanSrich - @ryanSrich 1 week ago

Find products with low NPS and high fragmentation. No need for an entirely novel idea. Even the best products we use everyday were very likely not brand new ideas.

colordrops - @colordrops 1 week ago

Then there's doing old things better by doing brand new things, e.g. tesla and SpaceX.

innagadadavida - @innagadadavida 1 week ago

This all depends on where you draw the lines.

One could argue that nothing really new has happened since digital audio, video, computing and communication - all technologies that are 50years old.

All that has happened is that they got cheaper, faster, smaller. Most certainly, a16z has invested mostly in startups that just fall into this category and very little in building fundamental tech.

mrmonkeyman - @mrmonkeyman 1 week ago

If you think Salesforce is just same old, but online, you don't know Salesforce.

Google docs, Figma and especially Slack rehash old ideas. Hardly any new ideas there. Wrong examples.

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