Token Daily

Malicious compliance is so wonderful.

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The DOE and DOJ blew their load prematurely in my opinion. What, they're only going after one school and it's an Ivy League?? Princeton can easily fetch some race relations specialist to make a statement that systemic racism doesn't manifest in real material racial discrimination but has to do with "ways of knowing," giving the university a bigger platform for their woke performativity. Any instances of real discrimination the investigation uncovers can be personalized and dealt with in a way that protects the university elites, who get to reap additional woke points while suffering what is for them a trifling amount of monetary loss.

I want to believe this letter is part of DeVos' scheme to further privatize education, but this strategy reads like it was conceived by Steven Crowder. Do you think rightoids in power get embarrassed that their operatives' emotional maturity is on par with radlib twitter? that they miss the days of communism back when they knew how to conduct real counterintelligence campaigns? This is all false consciousness and the ruling class doesn't give a damn what the outcome is, but it has to be said that deflation of expectations is one of the lamest features of neoliberalism.

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Midwest88 1 h ago

Is anyone else in education? It's amazing that since the moment DeVos took office, teachers and whole university education departments, have raged like she's Hitler reincarnated.

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wild_vegan Brocialist 1 h ago

Best troll of the 21st century so far.

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Judge_Is_My_Daddy 1 h ago

I hope that these colleges all lose any federal funding and guaranteed loans.

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drunk_violin 1 h ago

As per the president's letter:

Racist assumptions from the past also remain embedded in structures of the University itself.

If this statement is true, it is perfectly reasonable to assume that this means that there is a likelihood of the University participating in illegal discrimination that violates the Civil Rights Act. Launching an investigation to find out if this is true or not is a logical move. It is not a violation of freedom of speech, as some people are claiming, to use somebody's admission of wrongdoing as a pretense for an investigation.

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saigeco 2 hs ago

the answer to racism is race quotas, is like paying a janitor with barrels of shit.

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ziggystarshine 2 hs ago

This is so funny.

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throwingitawaii 3 hs ago

sucks that such monstrous people are all so fucking funny.

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martini-meow (I remain stirred, unshaken.) 3 hs ago

Live by IDpol sword, die by IDpol sword.

University's response:

https://www.princeton.edu/news/2020/09/17/university-statement-us-department-education-letter-regarding-nondiscrimination

DoE letter:

https://www.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/documents/2020/09/Princeton-Letter-9-16-20-Signed.pdf

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healthyjanitor 3 hs ago

Peak hubristic irony

You love to see it

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Myfunnynamewastaken 2 hs ago

"It's not racist racism."

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Amarsir 4 hs ago

My dark alter ego loves this. If people are going to play a game of virtue-signalling self-flagellation, let's make words count.

(Said alter ego would be very amusing as President. Among his first goals would be making the Federal minimum wage $50/hour in Washington and $0 in Alabama. Let's see what kind of bold statements politicians from those states want to say about Federalism then. But I digress.)

The more rational me is confident this won't actually go anywhere but is slightly scared that I might be wrong.

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Attila453 youtu.be/wckZcVFLU24 4 hs ago

dangerously based

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averyislandapril1st 4 hs ago

wasn’t betsy supposed to leave bc her daughter was on tiktok ....

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KamalaFerrisBueller 3 hs ago

I think that’s Kelly Anne

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bitchyfuxkjngbltch34 0 h ago

Same shit different skin suit!! These karen bags are all the same lmao!!

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jy856905 4 hs ago

I love it

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Sentinel83 4 hs ago

Anyone else just not give a shit about racism anymore? I'm so sick of hearing about it every 30 seconds. I'm just straight up out of fucks to give at this point.

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nthrnshnvly 4 hs ago

Love it. “You want to say your school is racist, let’s investigate”. Based.

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QuitKr8tom 4 hs ago

LOVE THIS

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Myfunnynamewastaken 5 hs ago

Can't cut and paste off the letter, but the production requests are worth a look.

https://www.scribd.com/document/476441457/Princeton-Letter-09-15-2020#download&from_embed

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aapolitical 5 hs ago

He’s on point, I’m fairly sure their admission process is racist against Asian applicants, no doubt.

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ImProbablyNotABird 5 hs ago

Oh how the turntables.

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DocDez 5 hs ago

Trump admin investigating a Title IX, rich.

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TheElfStrangler 4 hs ago

Title IX reform has been great under the Trump admin. Title VI is the one that deals with race iirc

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miserlou 6 hs ago

Can somebody snitch on the University of Chicago for that zoom meetings where everybody had to introduce themselves as "Hi, I'm Racist"?

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GoNzOs-WaY 6 hs ago

I support Trump I pray he wins,but we are fucked these people are in every facet of our Government local and state and Federal levels,Judges, DAs. they are embedded into our schools and Colleges. They are EVERY SINGLE media outlet they are every single social media platform. WTF do we do? I cant for the life of me see a good outcome no matter what. I saw the FOX news interview where Newt Gingrich named Soros as getting far left wing DAs and Judges elected all across the country, the cunt interviewing him said flat out,"We Don't need to bring Soros into this" Then Newt pressed on saying "Why not he is getting DAs and Judges elected all across the country its a FACT" Then some other Cunt chimes in saying "I agree with Melissa George Soros is not involved and we don't need to mention his name,he isn't buying anyone or having Anyone appointed" Im telling you folks WE ARE FUCKED!

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IdkWhatIwant895 6 hs ago

When your virtue signaling gets you more than you bargained for.

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BroJobBiggs 6 hs ago

Or in this case, less

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rbecker - @rbecker 10 hs ago

Racism against, and in favor, of who? Princeton vs US demographics (in %), from most to least represented:

          Princeton  US    ratio
  Asian   20.9       5.3    3.94
  Jewish   8.0       2.15   3.72
  Black    7.7      12.7    0.61
  White   34.7      59.4    0.58
  Latino   9.5      17.6    0.54

Sources:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_Sta...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Jews (using average of 2.15%)

https://hillel.org/college-guide/list/record/princeton-unive...

https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/princeton-university...

viggity - @viggity 10 hs ago

tl;dr - Princeton's President says that racism is systemic at Princeton. Department of Education looks to see if they violated Title IX and request all the federal funds sent to Princeton.

It will be interesting to see how fast the virtue signaling and self-flagellation stops at each university. (at least from the administration at each school).

Show all comments on Hackernews

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duong1989 Yesterday

Good perspectives to keep thinking about.

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LucSr Yesterday

> You can’t escape the fingerprints of thermodynamics

Assume the real term time preference rate 0.5% and the worldwide average price of one kwh at 0.1 USD and the worldwide narrow money plus gold at 4.61E+13 USD, the annual energy budget to establish trust is 8.29E+18 Joules which is 1.42% of the annual worldwide total energy consumption 5.84E+20 Joules. Assume people don't change ratios of energy consumption of each economy sector as economy expands, the 1.42% of trust token maintenance/production sector remains. It means the energy fingerprints is always not an issue if the mining task can be decentralized.

> Lightning ..

People who buy in the Lightning scale solution may prefer staying off chain forever so OP's argument is not justified.

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Bitcoin_puzzler Yesterday

Oh no the scalability "problem" is back

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ride_the_LN Yesterday

Mining is likely to become more distributed we near hard physical limits on efficiency and mining chips are fully commoditized. Remember that electric space heater that mines?

Nobody's making money on lightning fees either, channels are one-time setup and rarely need to be closed. Seems like it's doing fine... anyone having issues?

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LightningHosted Yesterday

Meme

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Bitcoin_Acolyte Yesterday

Are we hurtling towards another situation where bitcoiners were promised cheap and free payments only to find out that's not technically feasible but this time with lighting? I think lighting is amazing but the last time this conception and reality diverged it caused the bitcoin community some major growing pains.

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TheGreatMuffin Yesterday

Despite the controversial title, I encourage anyone to give it a read, there are some good thoughts in it.

The TL;DR of the biggest point is: [large scale] mining is impossible to pull off without a thermodynamic fingerprint. This could create a systemic risk because miners are subject to their jurisdiction's laws/KYC obligations.

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bitusher Yesterday

This also means there are some benefits to small scale mining over large industrial mining. If large industrial miners are targeted by regulators , thieves , or terrorists this simply is an added inefficiency they take on to counter the efficiency of scale encouraging more decentralized mining that cannot easily be tracked and regulated. There are also some overlooked things in this article as far as other ways lightning is scaling leading to more efficient use of onchain capacity like splicing or the fact that larger onchain fees can amortize across millions of lightning txs.

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Gaspa79 Yesterday

Yeah, that's a good TL;DR. Some points are just... moot? Like the crushed expectations part. The author is plain wrong about something: it talks about the flood and loot attack on LN, and how things like that motivated the bcash split for bigger blocks due to unreasonable expectations. That's simply not true: having an 8mb block will not solve any of those "crushed expectations". Those things had nothing to do with the split. Also, if you think the attack the author linked is possible with a 2-4mb (segwitted) blocksize but it's not with an 8mb blocksize you're dreaming. Furthermore, the core idea of comparing the lightning network attack to the blocksize is wrong: For the attack to happen there should be a lightning 'backlog' of transactions that are much, **MUCH** bigger than what an 8 megabyte block would be able to handle. So what's the point here? "Lightning doesn't scale that much, and look at this attack. Oh, things like these motivated the split... but not even a 10mb block would solve this volume, so the split was useless to address this." What's wrong with this part of the article is that the author seems to know what he's talking about, but he is just combining his/her scattered knowledge of btc stuff into a bunch of nonsense.

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TheGreatMuffin Yesterday

> The author is plain wrong about something: it talks about the flood and loot attack on LN, and how things like that motivated the bcash split for bigger blocks due to unreasonable expectations. That's simply not true: having an 8mb block will not solve any of those "crushed expectations". Those things had nothing to do with the split. Hm, I don't think he is talking about block size. I also don't think he means that a split will have anything to do with a block size itself, he is just giving an example of the previous split off caused by the block size controversy (some people's expectations of cheap tx's/large blocks got "crushed"). And makes an analogy that in Lightning people expect cheap and micropayments to work out infinitely, which might not be the case in the future and lead to disappointment of those people. It doesn't seem to me he is talking about specific Lightning attacks, but about the consequences on the "social layer" (disappointment by overpromises/hype/misunderstanding) and lots of infrastructure being broken because it relied heavily on micropayments being viable. Anyway, what is your opinion on the mining part?

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bittenbycoin Yesterday

Does bitcoin need 150 ExaHash to survive?

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TheGreatMuffin Yesterday

This isn't a "yes or no" question. The answer depends on how much energy and hardware investments those 150 exahash represent and how easy it is to acquire those. The number is relative and doesn't give much absolute information about the security level of the network. The more important question is: how easy is it for a malicious party to reach the majority (or a significant portion) of the hashrate? Also, hardware efficiency improves over time, so even if 150 exahash sounds massive today, it probably won't sound so massive anymore in a few years time.

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soontobesilenced redditor for 2 months 1 day ago

When you're powerless to help, all you can do is complain.

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exoticparticle observant 1 day ago

I'd like to be a fly on Brian Armstrong's wall as he reads this.

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Epidemic_Fancy 1 day ago

Ditto; was thinking along similar lines after reading this.

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Paouky 1 day ago

Thanks for sharing, interesting read.

They left out an important privacy attribute of grin (pre-broadcast aggregation) but they would have reached the same conclusion nonetheless.

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jesuispero 1 day ago

Don't lose the forest for the trees. Did anyone even read the paper?
Most of their suggestions, regarding Monero, if implemented by exchanges and payment service providers would mean a nightmare for everyone in this community except for those select few that are already well connected, have fancy lawyers and "optimal" legal structures.

We as a community shouldn't condone or incentivize this type of discourse, even if it means financial "gains" in the short term. Most of their suggestions if put in practice would be a direct attack on Monero users, and yet here we are, celebrating. As /u/geonic_correctly pointed out this paper feels like a missed opportunity more than anything else.

We as a community need to remain vigilant and not fall for the same traps that have plagued some other projects in this space, code can change, communities consensus can change, be mindful of playing the state apparatus game and hoping that somehow you'll "win" by playing by their rules. You'll lose, badly.

Even if some people would be financially better off in the short term. That was never Monero's goal, keep that in mind.

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ErCiccione Monero Ecosystem 1 day ago

> playing the state apparatus game and hoping that somehow you'll "win" by playing by their rules. You'll lose, badly. Get a moral gold medal. I'm happy to see there are still people in this community who refuse this kind of regulatory bullshit. I hate to see many acting like Monero will survive only if it will fit state regulations. Too many seem to see Monero as simply a product that needs to fit as many regulations as possible to become mainstream. I don't care of Monero becoming mainstream and worth 1 bajillion a coin. People who actually need Monero will never go through KYC or other regulatory bullshit. They will use an half-broken smartphone found in the streets of a city in Rwanda to send money to the rebels who are trying to overthrow the dictatorship.

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Alex058 1 day ago

How did this whitepaper change the community from cypherpunk to regulatory bootlickers? The tech hasnt changed, the people neither: chill man! EDIT: ErCiccione pointed out to me he didnt write anything like this, I must have read it elsewhere. Anyhow, my apologies to him EDIT2: I see I mixed up two replies, but that doesnt change the fact I was wrong 😅

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ErCiccione Monero Ecosystem 1 day ago

> How did this whitepaper change the community from cypherpunk to regulatory bootlickers? I never said any of that. You should probably reread my comments.

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Alex058 1 day ago

Hi, I would have sworn I had read that exact words in one of your replies. But cant find it now, so I must have been mistaking, hence my well meant apalogies! I will edit my reply immediately

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jesuispero 1 day ago

Also it's worth keeping in mind that loose community agreements shift, new people join the community, etc BTC community was mostly cypherpunk at some point, it's far from it these days, sometimes those things change fast.

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Alex058 1 day ago

Agreed. Good thing is, if this community would change for the bad, a new one would arise

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tempMonero123 1 day ago

Monero can still be used outside of regulatory requirements, just like physical cash can. If Monero was made only to fit in such requirements (become neutered to the point it's basically Bitcoin), then I would have a problem with it.

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jesuispero 1 day ago

> I'm happy to see there are still people in this community who refuse this kind of regulatory bullshit. I hate to see many acting like Monero will survive only if it will fit state regulations. Too many seem to see Monero as simply a product that needs to fit as many regulations as possible to become mainstream. I don't care of Monero becoming mainstream and worth 1 bajillion a coin. I think we can close this thread now :)

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rbrunner7 XMR Contributor 1 day ago

> They will use an half-broken smartphone found in the streets of a city in Rwanda to send money to the rebels who are trying to overthrow the dictatorship. Woah, you lean pretty far out of the window here :) But yeah, has something.

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ErCiccione Monero Ecosystem 1 day ago

I could have made a softer example about rural asian communities receiving fundings for their farm in XMR directly to their phone from a random guy in australia, but the rwanda rebels thing was a more powerful example :P

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MoneroArbo 1 day ago

Do you have any specific concerns?

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jesuispero 1 day ago

On another note, another high-level concern I have is that we as a community will change our culture and start focusing on these "compliance questions" too much, foregoing possible protocol improvements/research because that would potentially mean "delisting". Being not compliant with policies as draconian as the FAFT or AMLD5, would in other periods in this community, not that long ago, been seen as a badge of honor. Or that we'll become gradually more like the Bitcoin community, more and more focused on "number go up", "institutional investors" and similar crap like that.

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ErCiccione Monero Ecosystem 1 day ago

This is probably my biggest fear. Luckily that's not the case yet, but i cannot hide that seeing so many in the community being so focused about compliance (not talking about the average guy who only wants to see numbers going up, talking about actual contributors) worries me. Luckily i don't see key developers like moneromooo becoming regulatory bootlickers, so as long as things stay as they are, we are good. On a personal note, i wouldn't really want to be part of a project focused on pleasing institutions and regulations. That's not the reason i'm here.

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jesuispero 1 day ago

"To target and lessen the anonymity-related risks of privacy coins, appropriate enhanced due diligence would likely include measures to prove a customer’s source of funds, place of residence, and profession. Other measures may include a requirement that customers describe in detail their purpose for transacting privacy coins (e.g., the holder is a cryptocurrency trader or operates a business in which cryptocurrency is accepted as payment), along with anticipated privacy coin transaction volumes and anticipated privacy coin transaction counterparties." "Although it would be a blunter instrument for risk mitigation than per-customer analysis, a VASP could reasonably and effectively lessen the overall AML risk of a privacy coin offering by categorically prohibiting customers who are in higher risk categories or geographies from accessing the privacy coin offering" " a VASP could require supplemental information from a customer before processing a privacy coin transaction (e.g., details regarding the purpose of a transaction, the name and address of the recipient, and contact information for the recipient)." "Users can reveal an XMR transaction’s details that are specific to their account via key-based functionality that is built into the Monero protocol. Specific view keys can be shared with any third party to grant insight into the account associated with the view keys. This enables users and VASPs to disclose certain transaction details associated with a given account to a third party without publicly disclosing that user’s transactional information. In addition, VASPs can require up-front disclosures as part of their registration process and on an ongoing basis to meet their obligations." Imagine if all (or a combination of the above) becomes the standard of the industry, is this (as a community) what we are really rooting/lobbying for?

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tempMonero123 1 day ago

Yes, those are concerns, and I'd rather not have those requirements. However it doesn't stop Monero from being a useful tool. This would prevent people from *not* 'being their own bank'. People can still use Monero to transact and secure their wealth and pay for things without going through a bank or other financial institution. I don't like discrimination, and this could prevent someone like a cam performer from getting a crypto bank account (even though their services are legal, places like PayPal already refuse to have them as customers). This hypothetical cam performer may not be able to get a traditional mortgage, but they could still rent-to-own. I'm sure other products/services would pop up in the future that would allow for people to more safely 'be their own bank'.

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tododiamesmacoisa 1 day ago

> Imagine if all (or a combination of the above) becomes the standard of the industry, is this (as a community) what we are really rooting/lobbying for? Eh, maybe. I mean, even if that becomes the industry standard... This community would develop alternatives, as some of them already exist. The goal of the paper was to prove that Monero can be completely aligned with KYC/AML practices and there's no need to ban it, which would be a lot, really a lot worse than just forcing KYC in the standard exchanges.

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jesuispero 1 day ago

"Standard" exchanges that want to list Monero already do without (almost) none of the above measures. Coinbase doesn't list Monero because they don't want to, period.

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tododiamesmacoisa 1 day ago

Cool. So I don't get your point. This whole whitepaper is literally just ammunition for when people or other entities come around spewing bullshit that they need to ban monero or something like that because it's impossible to apply the existing regulations to it. I prefer to have this ammunition than to not have it.

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jesuispero 1 day ago

That the suggestions they make, if they were to become standard across the industry, would be a disaster for monero users.

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Alex058 1 day ago

I disagree. This is allready standard practice with normal banks/fiat, as it is with buying crypto from VASPS’s with a bit higher volumes. I’d rather have XMR then USD, being sure there’s no unlimited printing AND I can buy stuff without companies knowing what and where I buy my groceries

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jesuispero 1 day ago

Great that normal banks/fiat is the standard we hold ourselves up to these days. Regarding the rest, if your grocery store were to be using a payment processor they would potentially fall under some of this regulations, were they to follow some of this recommendations it's not necessarily true that "companies wouldn't know where you buy your groceries". Also, this paper clearly incentivizes entities to discriminate against "privacy coin" (blergh!) users to a degree of scrutiny that "other coin" users are not subject. That in of itself is concerning, it could also be used by current market participants (that deal with monero with no issues) to change their compliance policies to incorporate some of these suggestions. All in all, it's nothing to write home about, let alone celebrate.

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TrasherDK 2 days ago

Cool. Been waiting for this one forever.

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endogenic XMR Contributor 2 days ago

Great effort on this.

I did notice the following references to auditing Monero exist in the paper...

Specific view keys can be shared with any third party to grant insight into the account associated with the view keys.

...

The confidential transactions feature is a cryptographic tool that allows for verification that no additional XMR has been created or destroyed as part of a given transaction, without revealing the exact transaction amount. ^(42)

...

Unlike the Bitcoin protocol, Monero users have two sets of private keys and public keys (four keys total). The pair of public keys make up the wallet address of a Monero user, whereas the two private keys (the view key and spend key) allow an individual to determine whether an output is addressed to them (view key) and enables the individual to send XMR and determine whether it has been spent (spend key).^(43) To verify transfers of XMR, a third-party observer must know that the XMR is owned by the individual using it. To enable this verification, the individual using the XMR signs the previously received XMR with the one-time address used, thereby proving that the individual knows the private keys and therefore rightfully controls the XMR that the individual is using. The private view key may be given to others to grant transparency into certain details of particular transactions associated with the address or addresses. Monero also contains an optional text field called “tx_extra” that can store arbitrary data in encrypted format. While this text field can be used for a variety of compliance purposes, this use has not been widely recommended by researchers and developers.^(44)

… which are great!

But I personally would like to have seen a small section to show (via the Monero command-line system or a symbolic representation) some techniques, specific tools, and processes of exactly how legally liable entities or operators can, in PC's confidence, sufficiently comply, maybe with some basic examples for different entity types.

How awesome that PC did this!

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fluffyponyza XMR Core Team 1 day ago

> How awesome that PC did this! Just want to point out that they didn't do this of their own volition. Tari Labs commissioned it, and paid for it (with the help of some others).

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endogenic XMR Contributor 1 day ago

Yes, I remember working on an original high level technical description of how Monero works during the MRL workshop which MyMonero and Tari sponsored and Naveen and I put on. We called it a one-sheet and it was requested for this 'regulatory writeup' work. Its on the MRL workshop minutes from back then, sarang, surae and I wrote it in Nashville, but was years before we saw what we became of it so I'm glad to see the post..

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pcre 2 days ago

Can I violate the money laundering law as a private person? Suppose I sell Monero on localmonero.co for cash. I cannot check whether the money comes from illegal transactions. I have to assume the innocence of the other person. The money laundering law turns this around. You have to prove your innocence.

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_o__0_ Platinum | QC: CC 941 | VET 5 2 days ago

With regard to the “ease of crossing borders” factor, privacy coins and other cryptocurrencies present a higher inherent AML risk than cash, which is physically bulky and therefore more difficult to transport across borders, because large amounts of cash would require sufficient physical transportation and passing government border security. But privacy coins and other cryptocurrencies arguably pose a lower risk, in this respect, than cash, card, or paper payment instruments, which can cross borders with no transfer record at all (i.e., not even a publicly broadcast blockchain transaction

.

Where on-chain surveillance tools cannot be used, a VASP would still have ample controls to address AML risks of privacy coin transactions.

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soccersousa 2 days ago

When Coinbase

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Febos 1 day ago

Coinbase can afford to hire their own lawyers to write them this opinion. This is meant for smaller companies.

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TrasherDK 2 days ago

When big daddy tells them they can, or they grow some balls. Whichever comes first :)

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terrim_arque Redditor for 4 months. 2 days ago

Thank you for sharing this. Perkins Coie is very much of the "old generation". It's good to see they're writing about crypto at all.

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onestrokeimdone Gold | 4 months old | QC: CC 102 2 days ago

They aren't as "old generation" as you may think. They represented Brave/BAT at ICO which is one of the first and more legitimate operations.

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Febos Opensource Maximalist 1 day ago

They also represented Amazon Amazon in its IPO in 1997.

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ff14store 2 days ago

Safety compliance is important!

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d_goddard 2 days ago

Thank you team Tari

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subarun7 2 days ago

Good opinion, but we need a little more practical effort. I hope this report would be helps to convince the US Congress or crush their irrational regulations in court.

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endorxmr 1 day ago

Those regulations are very rational. Deeply malicious, but rational.

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Kukri4321 Observer 2 days ago

This is a huge feather in Monero's cap, or indeed any of the coins following in their footsteps.

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johnfoss68 2 days ago

Great work, and well done to all those involved in making it happen.

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aminok Platinum | BTC 1321, ETH 1101, CC 422 | TraderSubs 2 days ago

It's very encouraging to see this kind of high-level support for privacy, but I think it needs to be forcefully argued that "anti-money-laundering" laws themselves are a grievance assault on privacy rights.

The term 'anti-money-laundering' is an Orwellian euphemism for warrantless mass-surveillance of private financial interactions, and the existence and steady accumulation of these warrantless mass-surveillance laws is a fundamental affront to a free society.

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tempMonero123 Platinum | QC: XMR 1070, CC 1014, CM 25 | TraderSu 1 day ago

It's important to note that Monero can still be used outside of regulatory oversight just like physical cash can.

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slevemcdiachel Silver | QC: CC 89 | NANO 56 1 day ago

Regardless of your views on privacy, you are correct that this means nothing in practice. The only reason that the current regulations are enough in their eyes, is that XMR (or crypto users as a whole) have to convert to FIAT at some point or another to make their crypto holding valuable and at that point there's KYC all around. So for their perspective there's no need for extra regulations because there's already KYC in one end of the spectrum that applies for (virtually) everyone.

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cesastorson 2 days ago

as a huuuuge lover of monero, I strongly disagree. Money laundering is the mechanism that allows criminals to do crime. Its what makes crime profitiable in the first place. Its why one of the first rules for investigating crime (and investigative reporting for that matter) is "follow the money". Anti-money-laundering laws allow law enforment to follow the money. If buisnesses did not have to follow anti money laundering laws, it would be practicly impossible for law enforment to meaningfully follow the money. I agree they can go to far, especially when it comes to live government monitering of financial transactions, *especially* if such monitering is done without a warrent. But the current regulatory regime is not like that at all. the US only *requuires* buisness to know their custimer, and keep good records (which any good buisness should be doing *anyways*).

1

aminok Platinum | BTC 1321, ETH 1101, CC 422 | TraderSubs 1 day ago

> Anti-money-laundering laws allow law enforment to follow the money. If buisnesses did not have to follow anti money laundering laws, it would be practicly impossible for law enforment to meaningfully follow the money. Warrantless wiretapping of all electronic communications would also allow investigators to "follow the conversation", and discover what people are saying and to who, to uncover and solve crimes, but it would give enormous powers to the state over the individuals, and allow for nearly unlimited abuse and concentration of power in the organs of the state. Just as warrantless mass-surveillance of private communication is wrong, so is warrantless mass-surveillance of private financial interactions. Anti-money-laundering laws institute warrantless mass-surveillance. The dangers of totalitarian surveillance far outweigh the dangers of law enforcement not being able to use it to uncover crime. At its worst, the former allows for institutionalized tyranny, as we see in the dystopia that the Chinese Communist Party is creating in Xinxiang. Even milder varieties of mass-surveillance lead to extreme concentrations of power as they create significant information asymmetries between the general public and those who are privy to the information collected by the surveillance agencies. Yes, investigators wouldn't be able to "follow the money" without these totalitarian laws, but that is the price you pay to have a free society where people are secure in their most basic of rights. Money has utility to the extent that it is fungible, and to the extent that it is fungible, then criminals will be able to make use of money they generate from illicit activity. You don't eliminate fungibility in the name of preventing crime, just as you don't ban encrypted communication in the name of preventing crime. If the problem is organized crime generating hundreds of millions of dollars in illicit revenue, then you go after the source, in the activity that is generating the revenue. You don't try to "trace the money" after the fact, once they have already acquired it. The kinds of organizations that produce these huge revenue windfalls leave plenty of evidence trails, in the physical merchandise they move, the people they employ and the victims they create, that can allow any competent law enforcement agency to begin and prosecute an investigation against them. The investigative toolkit available to law enforcement in a society that respects privacy/due-process-rights is still significant. It includes the ability to plant under-cover agents in criminal organizations, to pay and pressure insiders to turn confidential informants, to get a warrant to conduct targetted surveillance, etc etc. And the state can use these tools to focus on the meaningful crime, instead of the "money laundering" that happens after the fact. For example, if it is targeting drug cartels, it can focus on the movement and trade of the drugs themselves, and not a second-order effect of the trade, which is the movement of the money that is generated from the drug sales. It is much easier to detect, trade and prosecute people for the trade of highly restricted Schedule I substances like fentanyl, which is a physical substance, than to stop the flow of cash that is derived from such activity, which will never be highly restricted, and can be done digitally and through innumerable channels. The state should be forcusing on the prior, not the latter. By the time the criminal organizations are doing the latter, it is already too late anyway. In other words, if the state cannot stop a criminal organization from trading highly restricted Schedule I substances like fentanyl, to acquire hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue, with all of the legitimate tools at its disposal, it is not going to be able to stop these organizations from moving the money they receive from that trade, regardless of what surveillance powers it is given. The argument that the state needs all this control, to monitor everyone's private financial interactions, is just a cop-out to avoid doing the real work of policing and prosecuting real crime, to exert more government control over the law-abiding majority, and to create more positions in the private banking sector and government bureaucracies, for highly paid "AML experts" and "consultants".

1

geonic_ 2 days ago

While I applaud the effort, it's disappointing that they decided to amplify the "privacy coin" meme. "Privacy-preserving" or "privacy-enabling cryptocurrencies" should've been used throughout. I would've also liked to see a section on "privacy-eroding cryptocurrencies", starting with Bitcoin, and how that affects the individual user.

This was an opportunity to change the narrative around this technology and to underline how Bitcoin's radical transparency is the niche, not Monero's privacy-preserving technology. To explain to regulators and others that Bitcoin is unlike *any product* currently available in the financial world. Does any bank offer a transparent account that anyone can peer into? Why not?

The paper also misses some of the more important benefits of fungible money. Guilt by association is a thing with Bitcoin. You need to not only be sure of the person you receive your Bitcoin from, but also be careful who you spend it with, since that person might commit a crime and you are the source of his funds. Bitcoin erodes freedoms on so many levels it is preposterous.

26

MoneroFanboy 2 days ago

All the points you make are valid but it also seems you are ignoring what a good thing this is. Yes, it’s not perfect. But yesterday there wasn’t a specific legal axiom for exchanges in the USA to support Monero alongside KYC/AML and today there is. Let’s celebrate that Geonic.

11

geonic_ 2 days ago

Cheers! I'll open a beer to that achievement. If it’s enough to get Paul Grewal and Noah Perlman over the hump, I’ll uncork the Barolo.

7

HoboHaxor 2 days ago

Does it really matter? Cryptologists, mathematicians, scholars, security experts, all have testified before congress/senate stating the backdooring crypto just won't work. Yet the keep writing new bills and will until the anti encryption passes.

9

SamsungGalaxyPlayer Karma CC: 3278 XMR: 9323 2 days ago

Tons of greats quotes in this one, including some where PC suggests privacy coins are lower risk in practice than Bitcoin, but the conclusion perhaps put it most simply:

"Allowing VASPs to support privacy tokens under current, tested AML regulations strikes the appropriate policy balance between preventing money laundering and allowing beneficial, privacy-preserving technology to develop"

17

ethereumflow Redditor for 4 months. 2 days ago

This sounds like rather good news for Monero. For once it’s not “stop privacy”.

13

unjack 2 days ago

I still don't see how it helps.

5

TrasherDK 2 days ago

Wrong reply.

3

Febos 2 days ago

1. It will help random new guy that heard of Monero and then heard FUD how not complaint Monero is with regulations and how will be delisted from all exchanges. 2. It will help small exchanges or small merchants or any service that plan to use or use Monero and was uncertain because of the FUD. Now will normally continue doing what they were doing or start doing it with Monero. And they will point to the paper when people will ask about it. 3. It will help you and me to explain to people, that FUD how Monero dont have future and how only surveillance coins will exist, is false.

18

aaj094 2 days ago

Well, for a while it has been a view that exchanges are hesitant to list monero because of regulatory concerns. This paper seems to allay fears that privacy coins are inherently incompatible with current regulatory regimes.

7

dEBRUYNE_1 Moderator 2 days ago

In sum:

We conclude that privacy coins protect legitimate individual and commercial privacy interests and that existing financial regulations sufficiently address the AML issues that privacy coins present.

And:

Not only do privacy coins provide public benefits that substantially outweigh their risks, existing AML regulations properly and sufficiently cover those risks, providing a proven framework for combatting money laundering and related crimes.

67

PhillyFan1977 2 days ago

Exactly 100% agree. There is no need for any further regulations

2

Epidemic_Fancy 2 days ago

Thank you; (and) yes this is a moment we all need to seriously appreciate and remember. We are here in a place of important historical remembrance where we prove our freedom is justifiably interwoven with truth and privacy as well as anti criminal pursuits. Beautifully written and now “peer” reviewed. Thank you to all who have made our wonderful and abstract journey possible. Have a beautiful day.

6

CaptainPatent 2 days ago

Glad the attorneys at Perkins Coie have their heads on straight. Hopefully regulators agree.

33

geonic_ 2 days ago

Lawyers think whatever you pay them to think. I wouldn't take what they've written as a personally held opinion. Otherwise they would've written it without being commissioned by Tari Labs & Co (and it would've taken them less time, but, you know... they charge by the hour). Does anyone really think Perkins Coie would refuse to argue FOR the government (or any other institution) and AGAINST privacy-preserving cryptocurrencies, if they had approached them first? Because they believe in the technology? Please.

18

CaptainPatent 2 days ago

> Lawyers think whatever you pay them to think. "No we don't" -The attorneys of Perkins Coie. *This message has been paid for by a grant from the reddit antagonists fund*

9

geonic_ 2 days ago

🤣 Exactly.

3

SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor 2 days ago

They still stand by their word. Perkins Coie is a well-known, prestigious law firm with their reputation on the line. ***They*** said everything in this whitepaper, not anyone else.

19

geonic_ 2 days ago

Not arguing that. I'm saying that I can't judge their moral character by their professional output. >Does anyone really think Perkins Coie would refuse to argue FOR the government (or any other institution) and AGAINST privacy-preserving cryptocurrencies, if they had approached them first? Because they believe in the technology? What do you think about this part?

6

SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor 2 days ago

I simply don't understand how that question is relevant.

3

geonic_ 2 days ago

I was replying to someone who had said that the lawyers "have their head on straight". That implies a moral judgment. If they had refused to argue for the other side or had done the work pro bono, because they believe in the cause, I might be inclined to agree.

10

Tallest-man 2 days ago

At long last!! Thanks Perkins!

10

Kukri4321 2 days ago

Woo! Been waiting for this!

8

25 10

Brooke ⚡️ - @bitcoinmom

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

261 1563

Miko Matsumura ㋡ - @mikojava

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

261 1562

Ryan Selkis - @twobitidiot

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

218 1365

Michael Casey - @mikejcasey

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

121 806

Barry Silbert - @barrysilbert

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

121 802

Marco Santori - @msantoriESQ

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

66 441

Pierre Rochard - @pierre_rochard

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

148 1224

Preston Byrne - @prestonjbyrne

RT @KPTlaw: This is fairly significant. Kraken charts a path for other crypto exchanges to become full service banks. Big banks better quickly get on board or they’ll lose assets slowly, then suddenly. https://t.co/2jNBUeIzMb

240 1469

Justin - @MindsFiction

This is the cycle where crypto flips Wall Street. https://t.co/70TdFmtCMJ

1 2

John Lilic - @JohnLilic

RT @pete_rizzo_: #Bitcoin 🤝 banking. "Kraken will operate an online and mobile-first banking model. We want to make it as easy as possible for people to access and manage their money via a single-portal client experience." https://t.co/NVV1ISTQk1

8 20

ispynlie Yesterday

Congrats guys! That hard work paying off

1

vedran_ Future staker Yesterday

Tweetstorm is way more epic!

1

Yourkeysyourbitcoin Yesterday

Not your keys, not your Bitcoin

0

Cryptolution 1 day ago

Kraken Financial, as a bank, is required by Wyoming law to maintain 100% reserves of its deposits of fiat currency at all times. If every client were to demand withdrawals of their fiat at the same moment, Kraken Financial would be able to fulfill each withdrawal immediately without regard to how many loans we had outstanding.

How are people not commenting on this? This post has been up for 13 hours and not a single mention of it.

This is fucking fantastic news guys. Things are being done right.

3

RedPill43 redditor for 4 weeks 11 hs ago

*say one thing* and do another

1

AllBlackCrypto 1 day ago

so im like here waiting for bankera to let me receive swift transfers from the us to get payed directly to an exchange without needing to convert to euro and kraken goes and buys a us bank. what will happen first. kraken allowing non us persons to open bank accounts to receive an ach which I believe will cost me zero or bankera having a way to receive swift transfers? i cant wait to be able to remove my current bank (dukascopy) from the equation of receiving my freelance payments (in my country there is currency control and the goverment forces you to convert your payments at a very very bad rate)

1

joshuawakefield 1 day ago

This is the just another beautiful step on our eah to $10,000.

5

KoreanJesusFTW Ξ Cryptonian Yesterday

Been saying this and will keep on at it: IF ETH DOESN'T REACH 10K ON IT'S 10TH YEAR AS BTC DID WHEN IT TURNED 10, I AM CALLING IT A FAILURE. I mean come on. ETH has a far more solid set of offerings, features, utility (it's a platform FFS!) so fundamentals are there. That whole advantage on the being first crypto will matter less over time. 10k is a walk in a park if anything.

1

TrueNorth49th redditor for 6 weeks 1 day ago

Very interesting!! Adoption zone here!!!

2

randomnomber 1 day ago

Kraken needs to go easy on the email spam. I don't need an update on this every day.

1

UnknownEssence 1 day ago

You can turn off those notifications

2

SamsungGalaxyPlayer Karma CC: 3278 XMR: 9323 1 day ago

Removed as duplicate https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/itwlie/kraken_just_won_approval_to_create_americas_first/

1

iguanarchist 1 day ago

So, when will I be able to deposit my paycheck to Kraken for DAI?

4

AllBlackCrypto 1 day ago

i too want the answer to this

1

Spartan3123 1 day ago

This is good for bitcoin

3

Banana_Salsa 1 day ago

Do you think it's good for ripple as well?

0

italianjob16 1 day ago

This is non-news they were already a bank in europe

0

Snwmn88 1 day ago

No they weren't

8

AnselmoTheHunter 1 day ago

I would love to invest in Kraken. Is there a way to do that?

1

steviecrypto redditor for 4 days 1 day ago

This is enormous news for the crypto community. Salute to all you who HODL!

5

CaptainCaveSam 1 day ago

Wyoming is the real hero here with its 13 blockchain laws.

7

cryptolicious501 Silver | QC: KIN 189, CC 176, ETH 42 | VET 51 | Tr 1 day ago

“We would expect to offer a host of new products as we get established,” Kinitsky said. “Those will range from things like qualified custody for institutions, digital-asset debit cards and savings accounts all the way to new types of asset classes. We can engage with securities and commodities and things like that as a bank. So a lot more TBD there.”

Look for JP Morgan to follow suit within a year.

IM assuming as a resident of Texas I wouldn't have access to Krakens services from Wyoming then again it seems as if services they are offering are the same as what JP Morgan would offer? Am I correct in this? IM trying to find out how much of this is a win for crypto.

5

Kraken-Marcus Bronze | 4 months old Yesterday

Hello [cryptolicious501](https://np.reddit.com/user/cryptolicious501/) At this time we do not have any more specifics to share regarding Kraken Financial. Please consider subscribing to our blog for more details and announcements. [https://blog.kraken.com/](https://blog.kraken.com/) [https://blog.kraken.com/post/6241/kraken-wyoming-first-digital-asset-bank/](https://blog.kraken.com/post/6241/kraken-wyoming-first-digital-asset-bank/)  Best, Marcus from Kraken.

2

cryptolicious501 Silver | QC: KIN 189, CC 176, ETH 42 | VET 51 | Tr 10 hs ago

Thanks Marcus

1

ARoundForEveryone Gold | QC: CC 81, XRP 46 1 day ago

I don't know for sure, but Kraken says they will be open to US customers only at first. I don't know if that means any state or more like "we'll take anyone in the US, but individual states may forbid it".

1

taprots Redditor for 4 months. 1 day ago

Very interesting, looking forward to them expanding to europe.

3

lostweaponryu Redditor for 6 months. 1 day ago

This is a nice first step. Just goes to show how early we are in this space. It's gonna be a different landscape in another 10 years for sure.

7

Sfdao91 Redditor for 54 years. 1 day ago

Looking forward when dexes can onramp from fiat.

10

Tuned3f Smokin ETH Everyday 1 day ago

The on-ramp would be skipped in this context.

2

FUSCN8A 1 day ago

Looking forward to the day we don't need fiat.

6

idiotsecant 1 day ago

how would that even work?

3

CodeInTheMatrix 1 day ago

Basically CDBCs I think. Many countries are already onboarding a crypto version of their own currency. There are some challenges mostly to do with the economics. Some countries like to control the printing process aka Tether. So basically a eUSD that is likely distributed by the government itself. This is all in theory

1

phantom-warlord 1 day ago

This, is HUGE. An extremely underrated event.

I just got some questions;

Can you please expedite the process of expansion of kraken financial services into more countries? Expanding to new countries as a bank is alot easier than as a crypto exchange. Is this a priority or not?

Having a bank that accepts fiat and crypto while issuing debit cards, bank statements and is recognised as a bank is a huuuuge plus.

it is very important that you start offering staking services and high yield deposited. Most crypto exchanges offer 5% or more on deposits of stable coins. Offering this on your exchange based wing will be easier than your bank based wing since you dont need to keep 100% reserve, do you plan on offering this in the future?

2

kraken-sam Kraken Support - official 1 day ago

Hello [u/phantom-warlord](https://np.reddit.com/user/phantom-warlord/), Thank you for reaching out to us! Unfortunately, I can't answer your first question since such announcements can only be made officially via email and [blog.kraken.com](https://blog.kraken.com). We do currently offer off-chain staking services for Bitcoin (XBT), USD, and EUR to clients located in eligible countries. For more information on our off-chain staking program, please visit [Overview of Off-chain staking on Kraken](https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/360044886311-Overview-of-Off-chain-staking-on-Kraken). Please also visit [Off-chain staking eligibility and availability](https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/360044886531) to check for availability. We certainly anticipate expansion of products and services to be announced in the near future, so please stay tuned to our [blog](https://blog.kraken.com) and your email inbox. Best, Sam from Kraken

2

phantom-warlord 1 day ago

Hello. Thank you for your reply. That is great to hear, am looking forward for expansion. Exciting times ahead!

1

clevariant 1 day ago

What new services will this allow for?

5

simplelifestyle 1 day ago

Kraken hopes to offer: > > -Digital asset custody > -Checking and savings accounts > -Wire transfers > -Trust accounts > -Online and mobile banking UIs > -Debit cards > -Account management services > -Little chained-up pens > -Deposit verifications https://twitter.com/msantoriESQ/status/1306247215162241024

6

ebliever 1 day ago

This is awesome and will make life easier for a lot of us dealing in both fiat and crypto. Now, since they are chartered in Wyoming, I just need them to open a brick-and-mortar location in Casper. :-)

3

bitsteiner 1 day ago

Finally a debit card that will work.

7

whitslack 1 day ago

Yes, seriously! No more of this "load fiat onto your prepaid debit card first by selling your bitcoins through our mobile app" bullshit.

5

clevariant 1 day ago

Nice.

3

igadjeed 1 day ago

> Digital asset custody But no digital asset withdrawal Yawn!

0

ebliever 1 day ago

They already have that, silly.

4

IDoThingsOnWhims 1 day ago

These are a list of new things. They obviously allow withdrawal, and actually the support page explicitly states that they are an exchange and not a wallet service.

4

bitsteiner 1 day ago

I assume custody implies deposit and withdrawal.

4

Stalslagga 1 day ago

Sounds big if true

13

coingun 1 day ago

It’s def true! “We are thrilled to announce that the State of Wyoming has approved Kraken’s application to form the world’s first Special Purpose Depository Institution (SPDI), and has granted a charter to Wyoming's newest state-chartered bank, tentatively called "Kraken Financial." Headquartered in Cheyenne, Wyoming, Kraken Financial will enable Kraken clients in the U.S. to bank seamlessly between digital assets and national currencies. From paying bills and receiving salaries in cryptocurrency to incorporating digital assets into investment and trading portfolios, Kraken Financial will be the first regulated, U.S. bank to provide comprehensive deposit-taking, custody and fiduciary services for digital assets. This new institution will be regulated in largely the same manner as other U.S. banks.”

25

idiotsecant 1 day ago

> receiving salaries in cryptocurrency finally, a non-shady way to do this. >paying bills in cryptocurrency sounds like a good way to have a 9000 page tax return.

7

SwagtimusPrime Daddy Swag 1 day ago

>From paying bills and receiving salaries in cryptocurrency to incorporating digital assets into investment and trading portfolios, Kraken Financial will be the first regulated, U.S. bank to provide comprehensive deposit-taking, custody and fiduciary services for digital assets. This is beyond exciting.

14

WalterWilliams 1 day ago

Sounds awesome. I hope this means fee-free deposits or at least ACH transfers (with microtransaction verification) in the very near future for US Domestic!

5

Way2GoBucko redditor for 6 weeks 1 day ago

Wins makes it sound like names were drawn out of a hat and they were the lucky ones. Kraken EARNED Bank Charter Approval

6

ethereumflow Redditor for 4 months. 1 day ago

Go Kraken!! Good news for adoption and encouraging new investors.

5

Red5point1 Platinum | QC: CC 374, DOGE 317, ETH 37 | IOTA 6 | 1 day ago

please tell me how this is good for adoption? banks playing with fiat or crypto are still banks... i.e. centralized financial control which is exactly what crypto is not about.

2

ethereumflow Redditor for 4 months. 1 day ago

Easier on boarding to buy crypto. Crypto is going to have to find a balance between decentralization and centralized control. That’s what DEXes are for.

4

Red5point1 Platinum | QC: CC 374, DOGE 317, ETH 37 | IOTA 6 | 1 day ago

Kraken is not looking to build a DEX

0

ethereumflow Redditor for 4 months. 1 day ago

I didn’t say Kraken are building a DEX. *That’s what DEXes are for* is intended to imply that if you don’t want to use a centralized exchange(e.g. Kraken, Coinbase, Binance) or bank, as Kraken will be, then you can use a DEX. Pluralized because there is more than one DEX; no Kraken isn’t one of them. You are right about that.

2

14 8

amhaas22 1 day ago

‘Wow this social media site is really innovative, nothing else like it today. I should buy bitcoin’

1

Dumptruckpancakes 1 day ago

MSTR stock up 10% today 👐

1

sylsau 1 day ago

A bold decision that everyone will remember in the future as a stroke of genius.

The first to take the step, but certainly not the last.

1

Romu_HS 1 day ago

voice is dead

0

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 day ago

Coming from someone who isn’t on Voice or who has friends that will invite them onto the platform lol Voice is the future of social media.

3

Romu_HS 1 day ago

Can't be the future if NOBODY IS FUCKING USING IT? WHERE ARE THE FIGURES?

2

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 day ago

Nobody, meaning you?? Lol Voice has a 70,000 person waitlist because you know, it’s in closed beta. And if you were on Voice, you would see that it is growing by the day and be ranked as the most used blockchain for social. Source: https://twitter.com/moore_chaney/status/1297172015976251392?s=21

1

Romu_HS 1 day ago

It’s the only blockchain for social what does it compare to main stream products?

0

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 day ago

Are you serious?? Lol Ok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. have a huge fake accounts/bots issue that cost them billions of dollars, users do not get paid for their content nor do they get compensated for sharing/curating, and anonymous trolls who hide behind a keyboard are forced to be accountable for their words and actions. Voice solves this.

1

Romu_HS 1 day ago

The most lied post of all time on VOICE has 243 likes. IVe received 10x more than that from shit posting on a shitty World of Warcraft server check my postage. Pathetic numbers Money can’t buy adoption and even if it could scaling voice to the size of Facebook would cost 2 billion in account creation.

0

Memec0in 1 day ago

>Voice has a 70,000 person waitlist because you know, it’s in closed beta. Some random guy on twitter is your source?

0

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 day ago

That “random guy on Twitter” is a moderator of this subreddit, a reporter/writer for EOSWriter, and literally just had an interview with Dan Larimer, a person who doesn’t give interviews to anybody. I trust him way more than your half-baked opinion, Memecoin Lol

1

Memec0in 1 day ago

>I trust him way more than your half-baked opinion, Memecoin Lol I sold my EOS stack in February (because of how shit Voice turned out to be, and I'm still on that list with two emails btw). Not a bad move in hindsight. Sometimes it pays to consider the opinions of people who aren't financially incentivized to lie. I don't believe the 70k figure for a second.

0

etmetm 1 day ago

It's great to have an excess of $500 million in cash to park.

Here's the thing: A lot of funds (pensions, insurance, hedge, universities and so forth) have the same "issue" of huge liquidity reserves. Many are willing to pay interest to hold government bonds - i.e. negative interest rates, when in fact they are meant to achieve a return on funds invested.

If some of them were allowed to invest just a portion of their funds into Bitcoin there's no worry about the missing demand side point of view in the S2F model.

3

stickypi 1 day ago

Selling voice.com domain name for $30M to EOS creator but buying BTC only, that speaks volume about all the alt coins

5

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 day ago

Yes it does, because Bitcoin will be wrapped on the EOS mainnet to finally achieve Satoshi’s vision of crypto cash.

0

slious 1 day ago

hahahahahahahahaha... hahahahahahahaha voice cant even run on mainnet....

0

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 day ago

Voice will run on the mainnet in conjunction with several other eosio chains. Currently, voice isn’t because it’s in closed beta to correct bugs before it’s launched early next year.

1

Slapbox 1 day ago

Or, it only says anything about the person/people that sold the domain.

1

LinkifyBot 1 day ago

**I found links in your comment that were not hyperlinked:** * [voice.com](https://voice.com) *I did the honors for you.* *** ^[delete](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fu%2FLinkifyBot&subject=delete%20g5h16ep&message=Click%20the%20send%20button%20to%20delete%20the%20false%20positive.) ^| ^[information](https://np.reddit.com/u/LinkifyBot/comments/gkkf7p) ^| ^<3

1

Krieger_Clone_46 1 day ago

Cool. Maybe it could inspire a 175m investment into EOS next.

7

amhaas22 1 day ago

No shit!

0

btceacc 1 day ago

This is a huge bet for a publicly listed company. I'm actually quite surprised that the shareholders would let him go all in like that. There is still lots of risk holding Bitcoin - theft of keys, severe bug, drop in price, etc. This could end up in triumph or tragedy.

2

varikonniemi 1 day ago

You need more than 10 years of flawless operation and gain on investment to convince you?

4

btceacc 1 day ago

Software is never flawless and Bitcoin hasn't been an exception. The life of Bitcoin has been far from trouble-free but it is true that it's a feat it has come so far. Software development never ends though. If they ever decide to fix the obvious block-size problem or change the cipher to protect against quantum attacks, there will be major uncertainty and of course bugs. You can't say what will happen as a result of this and that is why I would always diversify.

0

varikonniemi Yesterday

similarly as the bank's computer systems might crash and backups be corrupted, and suddenly all your money is gone.

0

btceacc Yesterday

If you worked for a bank you'd know they have multiple redundancies and plan for various disasters. If they do lose your account details it would be as a result of a catastrophic event where money will be the least of your concerns.

1

varikonniemi Yesterday

same is with bitcoin

1

btceacc Yesterday

My original comment referred to quantum attacks and transactional limitations. Banks don't have these issues.

1

varikonniemi Yesterday

neither does bitcoin. One on-chain tx can represent a million lightning transactions. And bitcoin is not vulnerable to quantum. > We find that in the near-term the impact of quantum computers appear to be rather smallfor all three directions. The impact of quantum computers would require considerably larger number of qubits and breakthroughs in quantum algorithms to reverse existing hash functions. Most of the internet needs to be rewritten before bitcoin needs to care. And even then the change of cryptographic primitive is quite trivial to do, without much danger as it only affects new transactions that opt-in. As is block size increase. Banks etc. have much harder times ahead to make themselves quantum proof once the technology might emerge after 50 years.

1

btceacc Yesterday

Point 1 has already been disproved during periods of high transactional activity. No one is obliged to use Lightning and this naturally causes fees to rise and confirmations to become sluggish. Shoe me a bank that thinks that's acceptable.

1

varikonniemi Yesterday

there are no sluggish confirmations, only underpaying cheap users. The whole point with bitcoin is that tx fees pay for the hashing security once block rewards drop. So the fees should rise, it means it is working as intended.

1

parakite 1 day ago

"stacking sats", he said in a press release.

3

sexyama 1 day ago

memes are powerful

3

sexyama 2 days ago

Taylor found himself reading up on bitcoin. He learned as much about crypto as fast as he could. Saylor said he pored over essays by “bitcoin luminaries,” listened to Nathaniel Whittemore’s and Anthony Pompliano’s crypto podcasts, scoured the internet for Peter Schiff’s bitcoin debates

LOL

13

varikonniemi 1 day ago

if you listen to his desperate arguments you are bound to become bullish

6

BlandTomato redditor for 7 weeks 2 days ago

“We just had the awful realization that we were sitting on top of a $500 million ice cube that’s melting,” Saylor said. MicroStrategy has settled on bitcoin as the treasury alternative.

“This is not a speculation, nor is it a hedge,” said Saylor. “This was a deliberate corporate strategy to adopt a bitcoin standard.”

Super bullish

79

Euphoric-Threads 1 day ago

Damn!

3

5liveR 1 day ago

I like the 'cube melting' metaphor Gonna try to use it next time I get into a discussion with my normie nevercoiners friends

19

Miffers 2 days ago

The most I ever bet was $100 on the Superbowl for the Chargers

6

AllinTeslaCalls redditor for 4 weeks 2 days ago

That could make him the richest man in the world in 10 years

35

Miffers 2 days ago

Is it his money or the investors?

1

user_name_checks_out 1 day ago

The company owns the bitcoin, and the shareholders own the company.

4

cryptening 1 day ago

blackrock owns 15% and 10% is owned by vanguard It's pretty much completely institutionally owned which makes this news even more bullish.

4

jcliff_btc 2 days ago

presumably as founder and CEO he has a large amount of shares of the stock

4

akajmj 1 day ago

He owns 70% of the company, directly and indirectly through his 100% ownership of Alcantara LLC.

2

simplelifestyle 2 days ago

4th richest, after Satoshi and the Winklevii

24

NervousGuidance 2 days ago

> Winklevii Have they merged?

9

BigGaynk 2 days ago

You are ot authorized to know.

3

tofuspider 2 days ago

only if you put on your 3d glasses

20

TurongaFry3000 redditor for 2 months 2 days ago

It's Bitcoin. Duh.

9

6 7

stake_pool Redditor for 3 months 1 day ago

Well look here, announced today, https://blog.kraken.com/post/6241/kraken-wyoming-first-digital-asset-bank/

Things are changing (moon)bois...

5

ZmasterFlash69 Redditor for 5 months 1 day ago

The new Prime Minister of Japan chose a Ripple Board Member as his Economic Advisor 🤑 https://u.today/japans-new-prime-minister-chooses-ripple-board-member-as-his-economic-advisor

7

stake_pool Redditor for 3 months 1 day ago

Oh yeah, now this is FIRE!!! Coming years are gonna be great! Great catch, thanks for the link!

5

ZmasterFlash69 Redditor for 5 months 1 day ago

The first draft said (in the second bullet point), “This will streamline compliance, making it easy for state-licenses money transmitters like RIPPLE and Coinbase to work across multiple states...” they took Ripple out 🤑

This is what we need to see for XRP adoption!!!

24

Jake2three 1 ~ 2 years account age. 80 - 150 comment karma. 2 hs ago

Excellent find! This is why I reddit

1

ZmasterFlash69 Redditor for 5 months 1 day ago

Can’t say for sure why they removed Ripple? Christine LaGarde mentioned “the Ripple instrument” (XRP)... https://twitter.com/xrp_hodl_/status/1276434874086428673?s=21

2

seppadai 9 ~ 10 years account age. 300 - 400 comment karma. 1 day ago

She said "repo instrument".

1

ZmasterFlash69 Redditor for 5 months 1 day ago

Repo instrument makes no sense in the context of her talk. Get a q-Tip and listen again 😂

1

Ceenoh 1 day ago

I don’t hear ripple either 😕 for me it sounds also like repo

0

ZmasterFlash69 Redditor for 5 months Yesterday

It’s okay, if you listen to the entire video clip, it’s clear it’s about Ripple and cross border payments and has nothing to do with overnight trading (Repo) between banks for liquidity

0

KryptoQuasar 2 ~ 3 years account age. 150 - 250 comment karma. 1 day ago

>https://twitter.com/xrp\_hodl\_/status/1276434874086428673?s=21 It's the accent that deceives. But for sure, she said Ripple.

5

Chazzer9 1 day ago

I noticed they revised it as well xD. Don't want the herd to jump in too soon.

6

Tek_Analyst Yesterday

Is there a legitimate reason behind why

1

Druddenjemad 1 day ago

lol they removed Ripple? Why?

1

j8jweb 1 day ago

Perhaps because of ongoing / as-yet-undecided claims against Ripple.

0

onetimeonly11elf 1 day ago

bias  " Paddy Baker is a London-based cryptocurrency reporter. He was previously senior journalist at Crypto Briefing. Paddy holds positions in BTC and ETH, as well as smaller amounts of LTC, ZIL, NEO, BNB and BSV. "

6

BitcoinIsSimple 2 days ago

Good for strike?

2

nice2yz 2 days ago

Strike?

1

BitcoinIsSimple 2 days ago

An different kind of bitcoin app that is pretty cool but not available everywhere yet due to navigating regulation

1

areddituser46 Platinum | QC: CC 149 | MiningSubs 15 2 days ago

Compliance and regulation, in my opinion, will be essential in bolstering future adoption as it makes people less cared of crypto.

5

BoyScout22 Silver | QC: ETH 20 | TraderSubs 15 2 days ago

>Compliance and regulation, in my opinion, will be essential in bolstering future adoption as it makes people less cared of crypto. if you're the type of person that obeys the state at every turn, you probably shouldn't be in crypto.

1

Satora12 2 days ago

Wow, this is great news. They talk about releasing news on Thursday (so today?), any ideas when this might take place?

3

xrp_reddit_guy Tin 2 days ago

Tuesday *

5

Satora12 1 day ago

Sorry, you are right.

1

Antana18 Silver | QC: CC 116, ETH 40, XRP 16 | NEO 202 | Tr 2 days ago

The framework will include 48 US states, further information to be released today.

7

thats_so_over Silver | QC: CC 138 | NANO 43 | r/Politics 318 2 days ago

Cool. When it happens someone link it to me in a reply please:) I promise to upvote!

5

1 4

Kraken-Christian Kraken Support - official 1 week ago

We’re pleased to announce Jeremy Welch, co-founder of the popular Casa wallet service, is joining Kraken as our newest VP of Product.

In addition to his expertise as a cryptocurrency entrepreneur, Jeremy brings to Kraken a decade of experience leading product development at both startups and tech giants like Google. In his new role, he will be tasked with making it easier than ever for clients to buy and sell crypto assets with Kraken.

This will include launching strategic improvements across Kraken’s product suite and leading the charge on new features to improve our existing user experience.

Jeremy will also continue to serve as an advisor to Casa as it seeks to grow its non-custodial wallet offering, praised by users for enabling them to safely and securely store Bitcoin without the need for a custodian or exchange.

To mark the occasion, we sat down with Jeremy to learn about his new position and to get his perspective on the industry’s past, present and future.

Kraken: Welcome to the team Jeremy! What makes you most excited about leading the product experience here at Kraken?

Jeremy: I’m most excited about building a better future with such a talented team. It’s an incredible honor to learn from and work with Jesse and the other Krakenites around the globe.

Kraken is the quiet juggernaut in the cryptocurrency world. We have a strong security stance and a culture focused on solving real problems for our large global customer base (we’re not just reinventing Wall Street on the blockchain).

Despite already being a customer, it was honestly a surprise to see the breadth of initiatives Kraken is quietly building globally.

There are very few teams that understand the real implications of Bitcoin and other new decentralized technologies. There are even fewer teams out there that have both the resources and the courage to invest in the big technology breakthroughs that are now starting to emerge. I feel very lucky to be working with a team that is aggressively pushing this world forward.

Your prior position was as a co-founder at Casa, a non-custodial wallet service. Why make the jump to a leading global exchange?

I spent almost four years building Casa before stepping away in January to focus on a family health issue. It was an incredibly tough decision to make, but I knew that my family needed my focused attention, and that I wouldn’t be an effective CEO while that was the case.
After several months off, I started thinking about what would come next. It wasn’t just a question of the type of product or industry.

My search for a new role was guided by three priorities: 1) Working with great people 2) Finding a culture focused on building a better future and 3) Flexibility to focus on family.
Those seem like straightforward requirements – but most companies out there offer a mixed bag when it comes to work impact, culture, location, etc. You might get to work on something important and new, but location flexibility or pay might be low.

Kraken is a rare company – investing heavily in its teams, working on some of the most impactful technologies in the world and also enabling teams to work anywhere and anytime.
Working at an exchange is extremely fast-paced, and we are still in the early stages of the cryptocurrency revolution. There’s so much to build. But within Kraken’s great team culture and work environment, I’ve found the pace of work to be strongly sustainable.

The Kraken team has made it very easy for me to get things done while also finding time for family. This company is just phenomenal and I feel very fortunate to work here.

Tell us a bit about your experiences as a cryptocurrency user. What challenges did you encounter and how will this inform your strategy for your new role?

Using cryptocurrencies, and more broadly any kind of encryption or decentralized computing technology, is still too complicated. When we started Casa, it was out of a personal need and also out of concern for friends and family. I knew people who were attacked, who lost funds, and I saw centralized services fail directly.We made it easy for anyone to manage their funds directly with the best possible security using a carefully designed multi-signature personal key system. Today, it’s super easy-to-setup and easy-to-use with simple apps and 24/7 client service.

At Kraken, I plan to use the same approach to improve overall user experience, but at an even larger scale. Exchanges are getting more complicated, not less. Increased scale, new security risks, new fintech experiences, new regulatory frameworks and new layer 1 and layer 2 technology improvements are all converging at the same time.

If that wasn’t enough, something tells me that we’re about to see a whole new wave of customers coming into the market. For this group especially, I want to make their first experience a lasting one.

Given your past experience, what do you see as the role for cryptocurrency exchanges in the customer journey? What trends do you think will most shape the sector in the next decade?

Cryptocurrency is no longer a niche industry. More than just wider awareness by the financial industry and by consumers, the bigger sign is the new technologies like Microsoft’s ION project and Facebook’s Libra project. The future of fintech, consumer apps, and much much more will all be built on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

And timing is fitting. The Internet needs a new business model. The Internet also needs an updated and more resilient architecture. I think Bitcoin could be foundational for both of those, and I think the exchange plays a fundamental role in that foundation.

Money isn’t just about taking and paying debt. It’s an information system. With cryptocurrencies we will see many more unexpected use cases emerge.

For all these use cases to work, exchanges must work flawlessly and at massive scale. It’s both an exciting and a daunting future we are heading towards.

What do you hope to achieve in your new role?

Right now, we’re focused on making many improvements to the core exchange experience, but there are also many new product areas we are investing in that I think will completely take people by surprise. I’m excited to be contributing to both, and to continue to build a great team.

Kraken started as one of the first exchanges, and its strong security stance has now enabled it to scale into one of the largest globally. But we are still just getting started. We are working to bring better financial and data access to billions globally.

Please reach out if you want to help us build a better future! You can review our jobs page. We are hiring across Product Management, Engineering Design, Product Marketing, Growth, support and much more.

Can’t wait to share more of what we’re working on soon!

Once again, welcome Jeremy!
– The Kraken Team

6

7 5

bitdoggy 4 days ago

If we can't fix the peg, someone else will.

2

Khrimz000 5 days ago

Im in shock at how its blown up so big....and out of nowhere.

2

Savage_X 5 days ago

How do they prevent the system from being under collateralized and perform liquidations? How is the peg maintained? Do they have a way to unwind the system if it becomes under collateralized? It's a very interesting project, bit I feel like there are major things that have not been explained yet

5

HodlDwon 5 days ago

This is a misunderstanding of the credit system. It is not hard-pegged to any value, but should in theory be stable-ish. If it scales to a billion or two, it will become more stable as liquidity increases and psychological value from thousands of actors choose to make it stable. Lastly there don't really need to be liquidations as you just get a sort of impermanent loss on your collateral as the price between you collateral and the virtual token move in the AMM pool. It's like a soft and/or continuous-liquidation (from my understanding).

3

capitalol 4 days ago

> but should in theory be stable-ish This is the crucial point. If it's volatility for X% is unacceptable then Maker still has a significant advantage and this reduced volatility could serve as maker's moat.

2

Savage_X 5 days ago

If there is no liquidation, then the system can become under collateralized. Stable coin would no longer be worth $1 and faith would be lost in the system.

3

HodlDwon 5 days ago

No... you just can't exit with as much as you started with... The article states you will have sUSD+StableCredit if the price moves against you. I am not clear yet if they rely on the chainlink price feed or the AMM to naturally arbitrage to figure that out.

2

jernejml 5 days ago

If WHOLE crypto market drops quickly?

2

Savage_X 5 days ago

If you take credit against your deposit, then you have to have some system to make sure the collateral is still good.

1

lessfear 5 days ago

Would love to open a discussion for MKR holders on Andre Cronje's new StableCredit protocol. It seems to be a direct competitor to CDP's and Maker's Dai.

More layman explanations:

DC Investors explanation

Lisa Tan's explanation

8

bitking74 4 days ago

What's preventing Aave to release a stable token

1

Jiecut 5 days ago

It's a bit closer to synthetix than Maker. It's synthetix exchange + sUSD minting with any collateral type not just SNX.

7

mariouy1986 5 days ago

It has yet to be battle tested. Innovation is great but they are different concepts, one has risk analysis, oracle implementations, smart contracts domain teams and is looking into RWA to scale up and bring solutions to real world problems and the other one leaves that up to code and seems to be focused on absorbing any crypto assets regardless of the risk based upon incentives. One you have direct access to your locked collateral while in the other one you may likely have but you may not (as per DC comments) One is integrated in dex and cex and the other one seems to be traded within the system. I haven’t analyzed it deeply though, we will see how it integrates to the defi ecosystem, anyhow yearn & andre are doing an incredible job which lifts all the defi ecosystem, liquidity is welcome.

4

jbonzerous 5 days ago

I have been a long time mkr holder. It seems like these other protocols are eating our lunch. Stable credit will make YFI scale infinitely so it’s no longer capital capped. It’s in the works that it will be able to deploy anything on uniswap as collateral. MKR is starting to seem like maybe not the best long term bet here. Anything that I’m missing on our roadmap that would suggest otherwise. I just don’t see how YFI and the stable credit doesn’t turn out to be an absolute monster swallowing these other protocols whole. Link below to the Bankless description with Andre himself. https://youtu.be/SkTuMVBLBNQ

11

HodlDwon 5 days ago

I sold all my MKR (at my peak I had over 2000 MKR) and I very sparingly hold Dai nowadays. Rune and the Foundation lost the plot years ago... I didn't want it to go down like this, but the writing has been on the wall for a while, MakerDAO has no moat. They had first mover and have squandered it. I used to recommend MKR as a buy, I now recommend people that hold it to sell.

2

mariouy1986 5 days ago

Hi, have you seen the developments being performed within maker? To name just a few: - We are close to actually delivering real world value solutions - Dai has 4x in 2020 - MCD has now 11 different collaterals I welcome you to check out the forum, specially since you’ve been from the beginning it could give a valuable insight

6

HodlDwon 5 days ago

I gave all my insights long ago and was ignored every single time. It's no longer worth my effort or time. I just occasionally see things from here in my reddit feed every now and then. Stable Credit and YFI will move fast and *experiment*, something MakerDAO has never seemed to be capable of. MakerDAO is gonna get its lunch eaten and I never would have wished for that and still don't, but it's already lost. It's so bad now, I don't even see a pivot it could even make to come back from the brink.

6

HodlDwon 5 days ago

And I should add, MakerDAO is suffering from "brain drain" now. Which is to say, the people or opinions you needed to change Maker from the inside have left the Maker-nation and moved to other projects/dApps/Communities. What you are left with is people that all agree that you're on the right path, even as you walk into a maw of irrelevance.

4

fofinsky 5 days ago

"Maw of irrelevance". How poetic.

2

mariouy1986 5 days ago

We can agree to disagree, however if you change your mind drop by the forum, some interesting conversations are going on. Particularly I’m looking forward for real world assets & yield farming assets that can drive minting up while significant revenue is collected to expand the different domain teams

2

jbonzerous 5 days ago

I need to stop by the mkr chat it’s been awhile. What are they doing with real world assets and yield farming? I would say this...crypto is a flavor of the month thing a lot of times. Just a few days ago Twitter was clamoring over the tri force of ETH MKR and YFI. I do have concerns though that Maker is getting out paced and seems to be standing on the sideline.

4

mariouy1986 5 days ago

Real world assets are getting traction from the community (check [signal request to determine if RWA should be considered a priority](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/signal-request-should-real-world-asset-collateral-onboarding-be-prioritised-in-the-short-term/4075)), there are already collateral applications from trade finance to royalties passing through real state (just two days ago there was an application for consignment inventory finance) it does not have the same mechanisms in order to onboard therefore the analysis is far deeper. There are biweekly collateral calls presented from different collateral applications, the next one involves real world assets, click [here](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/agenda-discussion-collateral-onboarding-call-8-wednesday-september-16-17-00-utc/4062)). As per yield tokens last week primoz did an extensive analysis [here](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/research-ctokens-as-collateral/3979) and you see the applications for collateral pending [here](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/collateral-status-index/2231).

4

ambidextrous12 1 week ago

What does this mean for Maker? Would it become obsolete?

1

TaxExempt 5 days ago

Maker should remain the gold standard for a secure fully decentralized stable coin.

1

bitking74 4 days ago

Hope their oracles won't fail

1

ironmagnesiumzinc 1 week ago

Can someone eli5?

1

economicsdesign 5 days ago

ELI5 from this comment on r/makerdao > https://www.reddit.com/r/MakerDAO/comments/irh5g8/thoughts_on_yearns_stablecredit_protocol/g4ycbuy/ Copy-pasting the comment here: Would love to open a discussion for MKR holders on Andre Cronje's new StableCredit protocol. It seems to be a direct competitor to CDP's and Maker's Dai. More layman explanations: [DC Investors explanation](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/ipxtn2/daily_general_discussion_september_10_2020/g4qgqsu/?context=3&utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=MakerDAO&utm_content=t1_g4ycbuy) [Lisa Tan's explanation](https://twitter.com/lisajytan/status/1304584889237270528)

2

ethiossaga 1 week ago

in short: multi collateral dai + uniswap It will let you collateralize any(?) token and create StableCredit which can be used in a uniswap like amm to borrow any other token

3

pr0nh0li0 1 week ago

You can provide any asset and create tokenized credit called StableCredit USD (can also support EUR, JPY, etc).

Excited about this aspect. Not enough stable assets pegged to assets beyond USD yet. What are the Oracles being used here? Chainlink?

Also how about StableCredits for XAU/precious metals? Or are they not stable enough for StableCredit?

The AMM defines the premiums at which you borrow/repay assets.

Any models yet that define how those premiums are distributed? Presumably lion share to LPs, small share to the Treasury?

6

pr0nh0li0 1 week ago

Just to add, it occurs to me that bootstrapping liquidity/scaling for this might be one of the first good reasons to mint a new limited supply of YFI. Given current prices emission could still be quite low to bring in a lot of new hype behind this product.

3

CryptoOGkauai mod 1 week ago

Minting more YFI probably isn’t going to happen. All of the early YIP proposals and suggestions related to this was shut down, and one of them was about minting 30K over the course of 10 years IIRC. When we were at about $10K - the time I first bought in - There was also a suggestion that never really gained traction that we’d mint more if YFI exceeded BTC unit costs for 12 days. That didn’t happen either. It could happen in the future, but it doesn’t seem likely anytime soon. It could

2

pr0nh0li0 1 week ago

>All of the early YIP proposals and suggestions related to this was shut down YIP-30 very nearly passed though. It wasnt until [Andrew Kang rallied against it](https://twitter.com/Rewkang/status/1289688600729096192?s=19) that the momentum really flipped (with just 3 hours remaining). It definitely had a fair bit of traction until that point. You could be right and maybe the meme of 30k has gotten too strong to be broken by the community. But if the right stakeholders made a compelling argument for it again to build liquidity for this or other new products, I could definitely see happening. Maybe even soon given how fast the team moves. I think circumstance will matter more than timing.

2

CryptoOGkauai mod 1 week ago

Good points, but then again, late rallies are also a part of any democracy in action. That or evidence of whales rallying together if we're being honest. Times change. One could argue it wasn't fully a Fair Launch because what about the next generation? Just because they weren't born, should we forget about them and take all the value for ourselves? Even BTC has a distribution schedule that mints BTC for future generations. I wouldn't rule out such a change as a possibility. A YIP, with enough support, could change the supply amount in the near or distant future (should the project ultimately succeed).

2

Over-analyser 1 week ago

Why mint more YFI? I thought you could deposit anything as collateral. If we need to add some liquidity we could use other methods that avoid dilution.

3

pr0nh0li0 1 week ago

One of the big criticisms of Maker DAO (and other decentralized stable coin designs) is that it can't scale. I'd be interested in seeing this model push that to the test, and one way we can drive liquidity to try and do that quickly is mint a small amount of YFI for LPs. Just a thought--certainly might not be neccessary. But with other lending and stablecoin protocols providing incentives for liquidity I do also wonder why users would be interested in using this over other options. Maker's APR is very very low and Compound's is actually negative after COMP farming. How does this model compete with that at launch?

2

Over-analyser 1 week ago

I honestly don't know . My mental map is AMMs like uniswap need liquidity providers who can suffer impermanent losses where they withdraw a different ratio of pool tokens compared to what they deposited. On the other hand Comp and Aave the liquidity providers deposit to a pool and get the same token back (just slightly more of it). I think that this protocol will allow you to deposit anything (possibly white listed tokens with oracle's?) And borrow anything or mint the stable coins. If deposits attract sufficient yield I don't think we will see a lack of liquidity. After all the yETH vault attracted lots of liquidity when the "only thing" it did was automate protocols in place. But I'll. Need to see what others make it the implemented code because I don't think I fully understand it yet.

2

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orders1-65 2 weeks ago

Seems like a very good idea. Their primary arguments are "it isn't technically well defined" (bills don't often specify hundreds of functional and non functional tech requirements, "doctors aren't sure if it's okay to go out if you're not sick" (the best argument but that's far more general a problem) and "poor people don't have smartphones" (I'm not sure about the stats on this, but children in sub saharan Africa have smartphones).

1

ruizscar 2 weeks ago

My primary argument is "this is dystopian bullshit which will lead to more and more reasons why certain people cannot access certain spaces, not to mention a drive towards microchips that don't run out of battery"

2

LordBrandon 3 weeks ago

For a second I thought I was in r/technology

0

the_river_nihil 3 weeks ago

Good god, on top of everything else (and there’s a lot of “everything else”) we can’t even be sure that the presence of currently known antibodies guarantees that a person is no longer contagious. No matter how convenient (which it isn’t), or legal (which it isn’t), or well-executed & strictly enforced this is (which it won’t be) the data is simply not reliable enough to make this assertion at this time.

16

fr0ntsight 3 weeks ago

Jesus Christ. California is out of control

0

BashfulDaschund 3 weeks ago

You get what you vote for. Good luck with that dystopian mess.

0

ConcussionsOfAParot 3 weeks ago

Right? Just have a look at how terrible the entire country is as well. We screwed up by keeping the working people out of politics

5

beef-o-lipso 3 weeks ago

Sniff, sniff. I bet there's a money trail that leads to sponsors or sponsors files that are into speculative tech stocks relying on finding a purpose for blockchain.

Stupidist thing I've heard on a while. Well, Stupidist thing today. OK, the last hour because I just stopped reading the national news.

20

marathon2422 3 weeks ago

You need phones that do not track you. -: Rob Braxman :- on YouTube and LBRY

0

usernamechexin 3 weeks ago

So what is the solution? Pray do tell

0

ValorPhoenix 3 weeks ago

Keeping up epidemic measures. Wear a mask and don't gather people indoors for long periods of time. The weakest link of this is the testing part. With a school that is taking attendance, they would have to test everyone weekly to have some measure of confidence that there aren't asymptomatic spreaders present. This bill is just a privacy nightmare that does nothing useful other than as a thought exercise on how to not do it in a stupid way.

19

ben7337 3 weeks ago

So wear masks indefinitely even after a vaccine comes out and keep all indoor activities and dining closed on that same indefinite timeline? No thank you

0

420everytime 3 weeks ago

Of course you need to wear a mask after the vaccine comes out. It’s not like everyone is going to get vaccinated the day it comes out

1

ben7337 3 weeks ago

When is enough people being vaccinated to remove masks and open indoor dining? Why can't someone who was vaccinated count the vaccine as equivalent to a mask and be reducing their risk of spreading the disease that way?

1

420everytime 3 weeks ago

We don’t know how many people is enough for herd immunity. That biological question is super hard to answer. Yes you still need to wear a mask after getting the vaccine because the vaccine won’t be 100% effective, just effective enough. The FDA has a minimum effectiveness requirement of the vaccine at 50%, so even after getting it, it’s basically a coin flip if you are actually immune from getting/spreading covid

1

ben7337 3 weeks ago

So we wear masks for the rest of our lives?

1

420everytime 3 weeks ago

No, but realistically until the end of 2021

1

xevizero 3 weeks ago

No, wear masks until a vaccine comes out, then back to normal, hopefully without forgetting how we got out of this mess for next time

5

ben7337 3 weeks ago

Oh I thought that's what immunity passports were, you'd show it to prove you were immunized and don't need a mask and such. Clearly I misunderstood and it's just about people who tested clean recently? That idea sounds dumb af.

0

xevizero 3 weeks ago

Yeah but it wouldn't have worked like you thought anyway. We don't have any proof that people who were sick can't get the virus anymore, in fact we have proof of one guy who 100% had it and 100% has been infected again, 4 months later. An immunity passport would give 0 guarantees, because herd immunity seems impossible with this virus. Our only hope is a vaccine, and then probably a new vaccine every year for years or decades until it's totally eradicated (it will take more time if people don't get vaccinated).

3

teh_maxh 3 weeks ago

> Our only hope is a vaccine If reinfection is possible, why do we think a vaccine will work?

1

xevizero 3 weeks ago

A) we'll need a new vaccine every year for different strands of the virus (this could have been avoided if the spread had been contained in the first place, but due to the huge spread now the virus has mutated and it'll probably become endemic for a few years) B) vaccines not always just contained an inactivated version of the virus..sometimes they are made to trigger longer term responses that are slightly different from the immunity obtained from simply catching the flu yourself. I'd like to be corrected on this one, I'm no medic, but this is what I understood from reading around on the issue..it's complicated stuff and I guess we just need to trust experts on this one. Still, getting vaccinated every 6 months would still be better than living in panic and in a few years it would make the disease completely disappear.

1

3 3

SantiagoCK redditor for a day 1 week ago

If anyone was wondering why there were mempool problems in 2017 that seemed like this, similar attacks popular around that time.

4

DesignerAccount 1 week ago

2017 were spam attacks. There was a group of people who stood to profit humongously from bitcoin struggling too much, possibly to the point of breaking, and pushing big blocks fork as the "real bitcoin". One way to achieve that was to fill the mempool with transactions in an attempt to slow down legit ones. It was a sustained attack for quite some time, and around mid November 2017 it was further helped with bitcoin dumping and hash power attack. As they say, the rest is history. I'm personally VERY happy the attackers got savagely rekt, one by one, at tremendous financial cost. They had no reputation to begin with, and never cared about anything but profits. So huge losses was the perfect way to hurt them.

5

RedditTooAddictive 1 week ago

I'll just add that in the meantime this group, which had a significant mining % of the network, was mining empty blocks in addition, which reinforced the spam effect since many blocks weren't clearing the mempool. Also, it was about pushing for big blocks, but also about avoiding segwit at all cost, which would see them lose their Antbleed mining advantage IIRC

3

atrueretard 1 week ago

The vulnerability was discovered on Friday, June 22nd, 2018

price didn't really move during these dates. how nice of them not to dump and then tell the public.

7

pinhead26 1 week ago

That's not how "responsible disclosure" works :-) We are security engineers who are dedicated to Bitcoin, not villains.

36

n8dahwgg 1 week ago

You guys are saints. Thank you for what you do

6

pinhead26 1 week ago

Coindesk report: https://www.coindesk.com/high-severity-bug-in-bitcoin-software-revealed-2-years-after-fix

Summary: an attacker sends an INV message to a victim node with 49,999 hashes of transactions that don't exist. The victim node stores all those hashes in memory and waits for the TXs to arrive (they never do). The process can be repeated quickly until the victim node is out of memory.

For those who don't know, bcoin is an alternative implementation of Bitcoin for nodejs. It's not altcoin, it's a bitcoin fullnode, SPV node, and bip44 wallet library written in JavaScript.

16

BubblegumTitanium 1 week ago

I’d like to add that bcoin is used in many wallets (including my personal favorite BlueWallet). So it’s not some random library that nobody cares about or takes care of.

2

4 2

TimbukNine 10 months ago

An outstanding article providing deep insight into the upcoming market conditions and the likely fate of the Ethereum killers. Definitely worth your time to read.

One obvious conclusion, if Ethereum 2.0 is successful then the Ethereum killers are in for a very bad time. There are many others to discover in the article.

4

Ethical-trade Hawaii 2027 10 months ago

>One obvious conclusion, if Ethereum 2.0 is successful then the Ethereum killers are in for a very bad time. Also means that we should keep our eyes open for attempts at sabotaging the project

4

[deleted] 10 months ago

Yeah I think if Ethereum ends up dominating, other projects would do well to connect to Ethereum in some way or another. Instead of the entire Ethereum Killer narrative. Overall, agreed this was an outstanding article.

4

yesono 10 months ago

TL;DR

“ In the coming quarters, a high density of “Ethereum Killers” (EKs) plan to launch their mainnets, and in so doing, release their assets to the public crypto markets. The transition of price discovery from the private to public markets will be an important one to watch and understand, especially considering many EKs carry billion-dollar anticipated launch values.

To begin, I expect most of the EKs to face extreme downward pressure from their attempted listing prices. Two recent bellwethers for this pattern have been Algorand’s ALGO and Hashgraph’s HBAR (click the links to see price action). I write this with zero schadenfreude as the ramifications impact Placeholder and many of our entrepreneur and investor friends in the industry.”

3

sdmikecfc 10 months ago

Large unlocks with no one buying except a few speculators and market makers. News and hype are gone in this market. Most blockchains spend the first year building manuals, resources and middle-ware just to get it functioning at the level of it's market competitors. They may land a big client or two who will purchase coins.... once... which will hold them over for all of the development phase and all of the initial dapp launch phase. They won't bring buying pressure... that won't come for years.

1

aesthetik_ 10 months ago

Great article, thanks.

2

MemeyCurmudgeon Flippant Flippener 10 months ago

I wish I could upvote this twice. Berry Goob.

2

3 10

Michael Goldstein - @bitstein

RT @stephanlivera: @pierre_rochard @josephskewes "Odunjo makes two or three transfers a month of around 0.5-0.7 bitcoin ($5,900-$8,300) each, to suppliers in Shanghai and Zhangzhou." https://t.co/by94i0qJQX?

2 9

Andrea O'Sullivan - @anjiecast

RT @ReutersBiz: WATCH: In Nigeria, small #cryptocurrency transfers totaled up to $56 million in June, nearly 50% more than a year before. Read more https://t.co/hsYPd34shp via @alexisak https://t.co/eJNrbUGzVp

45 93

Leigh Cuen - @La__Cuen

RT @soonaorlater: Though saying practical usage of bitcoin has failed elsewhere is inaccurate, great to see Reuters covering the quiet bitcoin boom in Africa. https://t.co/44VMtsgfuw

3 22

Paul Sztorc - @Truthcoin

RT @jp_koning: On Nigerian bitcoin usage: https://t.co/7VlMvqMPeu Key quote: “I don’t need anyone in the banks, I don’t need a person to use the back door to get dollars.” Foreign exchange is rationed in Nigeria. (42 items are banned from accessing forex!) Bitcoin offers importers a way out. https://t.co/ZGtTXBXAM6

10 11

Wong Joon Ian - @joonian

RT @Reuters: How #bitcoin met the real world in Africa: Crypto transfers have soared over the last year on the continent, according to U.S. blockchain research firm Chainalysis, @alexisak has more https://t.co/RbgAPprbla https://t.co/RpVX55L80r

32 61

Soona - @soonaorlater

Though saying practical usage of bitcoin has failed elsewhere is inaccurate, great to see Reuters covering the quiet bitcoin boom in Africa. https://t.co/44VMtsgfuw

0 3

Erik Voorhees - @ErikVoorhees

RT @ReutersBiz: In Africa, bitcoin - the original and biggest cryptocurrency - is finding the practical use that it has largely failed to elsewhere https://t.co/EywE8Jqjll by @alexisak @tomwilson1983 https://t.co/9U2Eeh1Sfl

28 72

Neeraj K. Agrawal - @NeerajKA

RT @alexisak: Why a boom in Africa? Young, tech-savvy populations that have adapted quickly to bitcoin, weaker local currencies that make it harder to get dollars for global trade, and a desire to cut the fees/bureacracy required for money transfers. https://t.co/W7bSU2A9EH

3 14

Aaron van Wirdum - @AaronvanW

RT @alexisak: Why a boom in Africa? Young, tech-savvy populations that have adapted quickly to bitcoin, weaker local currencies that make it harder to get dollars for global trade, and a desire to cut the fees/bureacracy required for money transfers. https://t.co/W7bSU2A9EH

3 13

Barry Silbert - @barrysilbert

RT @Reuters: A quiet bitcoin boom in Africa is being driven by payments from small businesses as well as remittances sent home from migrant workers https://t.co/fncEu7wiUr by @alexisak @tomwilson1983 https://t.co/dzpov6nvWh

29 65

1 7

25 4

HateIsAnArt 1 week ago

I love when people on this website explain to me how America is the most capitalist country to ever exist. What a load of bullshit.

1

squeakybeak 1 week ago

That sounds a bit socialist.

2

Spacesider 1 week ago

I cannot see anything possibly going wrong with this

1

faran_shahid 1 week ago

I think it's not a question of whether the fed has it in control or not. The difference lies in the attitude towards financial markets of Jay Powell and Janet Yellem. Though its true that Jay Powell is faced with a unique circumstance of the pandemic but they are trying too hard to prevent a crises or prevent recession rather than allowing the economic cycle to run its course and taper it. There is a difference in tapering and prevention. Historically, preventive measures have led to an exacerbation of a crises in the long run. The economic cycle is supposed to run its natural course.

3

NC4Life078 1 week ago

Huh... glad I’m getting granite countertops in the next two weeks

1

QuantumSpecter 1 week ago

Could someone ELI5? What are the consequences of the fed owning US mortgages? Does it act like a loan? Is whats happening similar to the mortgage debt crisis? Thank you

2

RuffianGhostHorse OurBeatingHeart 1 week ago

I'd have thought it'd be more towards forty.

B A S T A R D S.

2

FarrisAT 1 week ago

We are becoming more and more Chinese state capitalist by the day.

4

Flower_Overwhelming 1 week ago

Yup. This is in line with State Capitalism as the financial institutions profiting financially from this arrangement get to decide where to re-invest rather than the State; such as in State Socialism.

1

Clownshow_rebirthed 1 week ago

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

socialize those losses baby, yes american capitalism. definitely a free market problem.

1

Mycateatsmoney 1 week ago

The federal reserve is a private entity despite the name and despite how they control the economy.
The idea of the fed was fought long and hard by true patriots of our country until eventually the right votes and politicians were purchased and the fed was created in 1913.
The fed influences the US dollar and US monetary system by providing a centralized command center for banks that unilaterally have huge impact on the overall economy, eg. Interest rates, purchase or offering of bonds, etc.
The feds influence on the US economy has grown over the decades and the power it has continues to grow as stock investors say “dont fight the fed”, etc.

Google a little bit to get to know the federal reserve, despite what you are told or led to believe. Eg. Is a governmental part of the system, owned by noone, answers to noone, has no influence in the market, is here to help people not banks, etc. is a good google, trust me.

6

wmrossphoto 1 week ago

Yup, and we had US Treasury dollars for a hot second in the early 60’s before Kennedy was assassinated and then the US had to go back to being tied to the Federal Reserve.

2

Goosehasthreelegs 1 week ago

You’ll be shocked at the number of school loans then!

The US runs only to make money off of its citizens.

That’s Capitalism, baby. finger guns

2

DVORAK1979 1 week ago

they have to make up for tax cuts somehow

1

CustomAlpha 1 week ago

Socialized housing program! Less likely to collapse economies this way.

1

Mycateatsmoney 1 week ago

I smell a mortgage crash coming soon to a real estate market near you.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

1

thedebtreliefco 1 week ago

This is beyond crazy! Imagine how different the Great Recession would have been if the FED acted with the same velocity back then as they are now. Would have been a completely different ballgame.

6

dannyboy1901 1 week ago

Just bring interest rates to negative and the have nots will benefit, but the haves will never allow that

1

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1

xanadumuse 1 week ago

BlackRock to the rescue /s.

1

whydoihavetojoin 1 week ago

The next housing bubble, which isn’t that far, will bring down fed.

0

alwaysZenryoku 1 week ago

Perfectly normal for the government to interfere with markets, that’s capitalism... /s

4

krusbarVinbar 1 week ago

What is the point of banks these days when it is all the FED? Banks are just a user interface for borrowing money for the FED. How about abolishing banks and just allowing direct lending from the FED.

18

jucestain 1 week ago

Ive asked myself this a lot too. And basically, I think the way things are going is essentially a transition to a nationalized banking system, with all money being basically lent from the fed, whether its digitally printed or not, but basically the amount of lending will be proportional to the amount of inflation (the key here is how inflation is measured, but thats a different story). The problem with the FED is they don't have the capacity to determine who is "credit worthy" or not, and cannot issue loans on an individual basis, so they rely on banks to issue loans. The obvious problem here is that banks no longer have any risk, so they are basically just lending to everyone at this point IMO and it's becoming a game of just how much $$ can you get. But the true reason for banks has always been to finance commerce. They served as a safe haven to store wealth (vestigial at this point) and as a means to channel wealth from the idle rich to the industrious poor (ascent of money). And they did this efficiently because defaults on loans ran the risk of a bank run or going out of business. But now the risk has vanished so I can only imagine the amount of $$ being misappropriated right now.

3

eleven8ster 1 week ago

I would guess UBI would look like a savior to the free market in this context? Credit worthiness assessment flies out the window and acts as a money spout to the people and becomes a tool in the toolbox to manage inflation? If ubi becomes too much a part of a person's income and they stop working their employer could raise pay and prices accordingly. You could also determine creditworthiness on a blockchain smart contract via decentralized identity if you were the fed. That would work. I'm just kind of thinking out loud here.

1

Coldfriction 1 week ago

Dude, this is an economics forum. Get out of here with that talk. We have been trained to worship the banking industry. It is necessary for our salvation.

0

point_of_privilege 1 week ago

That's how mortgages typically work. The bank where the mortgage is issued is just a loan originator. These loans are then sold on a secondary market to aggregators who securitize them and sell them as bonds to investors. The originating bank doesn't hold onto a loan for very long even in normal circumstances.

1

Effective-Mustard-12 1 week ago

Exactly. Why the fuck do banks exist. I don't interact with them AT ALL and honestly I have very little need to. They are more of a hindrance than anything.

5

l8_apex 1 week ago

Usury is the answer you're seeking.

6

Effective-Mustard-12 1 week ago

For sure.

2

yalogin 1 week ago

We are politically in a situation where the government cannot say, fuck it, we are not going to eat up the risk of the private corporations.

11

yaosio 1 week ago

Sure they can, and if the ruling class demands it then that's what the state will do.

2

DeepSlicedBacon 1 week ago

The great reset will happen once all the mortgages are on their books.

3

pmtiggobitties 1 week ago

Again?

1

oep4 1 week ago

I’ll just leave this here:

https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/smccf.htm

5

DevlinTrades 1 week ago

I had to read this a few times over and research some terms to be able to understand it. It makes sense now why The Fed own so much of the mortgages, thank you for the resource. Now what does this mean for the future? It doesn't seem inherently bad, wouldn't this be a safe way for The Fed to generate a return from this pandemic (assuming the economy recovers and the companies they own bonds with are able to pay their debts)? Am I missing something?

1

4fingertakedown 1 week ago

It’s not terrible but we really won’t have an answer to your question about the future until... the future. I don’t think the fed is trying to generate a return in as much provide liquidity. They’re giving you cash so you can buy oil for your car so it doesn’t blow up on the highway.

1

oep4 1 week ago

The question to ask is what effect this policy has on the wellbeing of society. That’s the question I ask. And I can’t see any upside.

1

vagrantist 1 week ago

So quasi-socialism owns mortgages.

1

TotalBrownout 1 week ago

They dont own the mortgages... they own MBS, which means if the underlying mortgages default, whatever banks hold the actual deeds end up with the property and owe the money to whomever holds the MBS... instead of AIG providing insurance which caused them to go bankrupt, this time the FED/taxpayers will be left holding the bag. It will probably be a very empty bag.

1

golddot78 1 week ago

Fed Reserve is not government.

3

ChiefaCheng 1 week ago

You must not understand that the Federal Reserve is private, not government

5

vagrantist 1 week ago

And it pays its revenue to the us government. “The federal government sets the salaries of the board's seven governors, and it receives all the system's annual profits, after dividends on member banks' capital investments are paid, and an account surplus is maintained. In 2015, the Federal Reserve earned a net income of $100.2 billion and transferred $97.7 billion to the U.S. Treasury” “Although an instrument of the US Government, the Federal Reserve System considers itself "an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by Congress, and the terms of the members of the board of governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms." Looks like a duck. Walks like a duck. Calls itself a turtle.

1

oblivion95 1 week ago

The FOMC consists of the 7 governors from the Board of Governors and the 12 Reserve Bank presidents. The President+Senate selects the 7, and private banks select the 12. So it's 37% government, from that point of view. And beyond FOMC, the Fed is governed solely by the Board of Governors, which is 100% government.

3

ChiefaCheng 1 week ago

Yes. Banks are private, board is gov

2

capstan_hook 1 week ago

"Socialism is when the government does stuff"

2

vagrantist 1 week ago

If you vote for a person and then pay them to make decisions about institutions that you pay for and they turn around and pay each other money you gave them. Its sure looks like socialism.

0

capstan_hook 1 week ago

>Its sure looks like socialism. "The more stuff the government does, the more socialister it is." —Karl Marx probably

2

vagrantist 1 week ago

oops my bust, Democratic Socialism.

1

yaosio 1 week ago

No, not that either, it's capitalism. Elections and government owned businesses existed when Karl Marx was alive, not once did he refer to those things as socialism. They are part of the capitalist system. Elections in a capitalist system are where we determine who will oppress us. I don't get how you don't know this. You talk about socialism like youl know everything about it, yet you don't know what one of the most famous socialists had to say about government, democracy, and government owned bussiness in capitalism. It would be like knowing everything there is to know about physics yet somehow not knowing what Einstein had to say about it.

2

vagrantist 1 week ago

Capitalism that has the government bailing out banks, supporting banks from failure (and risk) with the FDIC, installing those who adjust interest rates, subsidies for industries like corn and oil, is in no way capitalism.

0

vagrantist 1 week ago

nope.

1

3 2

bitcentral 1 week ago

Congrats to the ENS team! ENS domains are a great fit for naming oracle contracts

ENS is receiving a grant to:

Create the capability to generate immutable, censorship-resistant, and human-readable domain names for Chainlink oracle contract addresses, increasing the security of how Chainlink network addresses are accessed and displayed.

5

PseudonymousChomsky 1 week ago

I was just thinking about the high cost of ENS on Ethereum and what the roadmap looks like. Then BAM, I open up Reddit and see this post!!

Great work ENS team!

6

fuck_____________1 1 week ago

You realize that Chainlink has announced hundreds of "integrations" and "partnerships" in the last 4 years. How many actually made it to production? 2. (And they both were bribed) If you want to look into how Chainlink fraudulently announces fake partnerships to pump their token price, there's plenty of literature. [https://zeus-capital.com/news/chainlink-integrations](https://zeus-capital.com/news/chainlink-integrations) [https://zeus-capital.com/news/callisto-network-chainlink-fake-partnership](https://zeus-capital.com/news/callisto-network-chainlink-fake-partnership) [https://peakd.com/hive-126009/@vlemon/is-chainlink-an-overhyped-crypto-project-or-will-they-actually-deliver](https://peakd.com/hive-126009/@vlemon/is-chainlink-an-overhyped-crypto-project-or-will-they-actually-deliver)

6

erguamen 1 week ago

Actually believing Zeus FUD. The absolute state of Plebbit.

1

erguamen 1 week ago

You realise that you were supposed to stop fudding Chainlink when mainnet came out right?

1

brantlymillegan 1 week ago

ENS is receiving a grant to:

- Create the capability to generate immutable, censorship-resistant, and human-readable domain names for Chainlink oracle contract addresses, increasing the security of how Chainlink network addresses are accessed and displayed.

- Build a Layer 2 Rollup based solution for verifying DNSSEC proofs for ENS domain names on Ethereum without having to do the computation on-chain.

2

25 2

whoyoufoo101 1 week ago

If you sold out at $480 earlier this week, you should be planning to rebuy at these lower levels.

Switzerland is considered very stable relative to other sovereign govts.

2

fleixx 1 week ago

If you elect sb like Bolsonaro it's not fun to pay taxes, I get it. But in states with working governments most people are fine with paying taxes. It's not theft, it's sharing. If everything is buildt voluntarly only the wealthy will profit from this "public goods".

1

SwapzoneIO 2 weeks ago

Good step for adoption. Another use for bitcoin holders in Switzerland!

1

mezolithico 2 weeks ago

What a great scam to get rid of your anonymity. Once they link the address to your name they know all you’re transaction related to that address.

0

BUIDL000 2 weeks ago

Tax , currency, reserve currency status aside, IMO, All countries should diversify their holding in their financial department unless that country has no intent to participate in global trade.

1

etabeta1 2 weeks ago

I think this is very good: if taxes were collected entirely with cryptocurrency, you can know exactly where tax money go.

1

maninahattt 2 weeks ago

For a sec I thought they meant ETH Zurich, the uni, until I read the sub name

1

sarah_Hanson redditor for 2 days 2 weeks ago

Get lost

1

Grid-01 2 weeks ago

Gotta love the Swiss -- at least they are open to exploring this types of payments

1

official-mitchell 2 weeks ago

From the article

"A pilot of the tax scheme is set to be trialed in the coming weeks, ahead of the planned February 2021 launch."

Is this Swiss government responsible for creating the pilot? Are they working with vendors in the ecosystem?

1

altcoin_whale redditor for 7 weeks 2 weeks ago

Buy something people don’t want so you can sell it to them when they do want it! Invest in $PCN Peepcoin 👀 - privacy is a right not a privilege.

1

snarfi 2 weeks ago

I was at an event yesterday where finance minister of Switzerland, Bundesrat Ueli Maurer said "you shluld not should close your eyes from blockchain and cryprocurrencies".

1

Downtown-Deposit 2 weeks ago

Only thing left is utility bills and rent. With a crypto card you’ll soon be able to go completely cashless.

1

Saxi 2 weeks ago

I wonder if this is more to get your wallet addresses.

1

andreyttt 2 weeks ago

“Swiss” sounds cool but it’s not a country. Our country is named Switzerland and the Swiss live here. Swiss is an adjective, not a noun.

10

CraftyMuthafucka 2 weeks ago

I know hyping stuff seems like you're helping the cause, but posts like this are the reason why skeptics continue to roll their eyes at crypto.

This is clickbait garbage. You're hurting the cause.

1

Spl00ky 2 weeks ago

Let's get a poll to see who will use bitcoin to pay their taxes

1

TheCurious0ne 2 weeks ago

Paying taxes is for the people that don't use crypto though.

0

Spl00ky 2 weeks ago

So for tax dodgers

1

WarrenMuppet007 redditor for 6 weeks 2 weeks ago

I am willing to pay. I already pay for various stuff using crypto , why not taxes too.

1

zappadoing 2 weeks ago

\+1

1

CryptoMods Bronze 2 weeks ago

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1

FidelHimself 2 weeks ago

...from my cold dead hands!

jk, pay your taxes people. it's not theft when other people vote for it. there is just no way we could figure out how to build a road without coercive force.

7

decentralizedgames 2 weeks ago

Paying taxes should be a noble thing if your respect your country. It’s the important fact of having it all visible on a public blockchain so say you know your 7 cents, out of your taxes paid to the treasury, along with others portions, goes to a road somewhere, etc. This leaves open discussion for military funding, which would have to be delegated a certain amount and encrypted. Military has always been the siphoning scheme for corruption laundering... sickening. We need to prevent such things.

4

FidelHimself 1 week ago

>Paying taxes should be a noble thing if your respect your country. I respect the country, not the politicians. Our tax dollars are used to commit all kinds of atrocities so don't shame me with that patriotic bullshit

0

decentralizedgames 1 week ago

Did you even read it in totality? Or fucking instantly sooking about one portion of it? I clearly state it's evident military and the likes have been utilised to masquerade corruption etc. Settle the fuck down, nobody is shaming anyone by saying the word patriot. Clearly you're searching for a cause, patriotism isn't a bad choice, if done right.

2

Alexchii 1 week ago

Can someone explain why this was downvoted?

4

decentralizedgames 1 week ago

Nobody can explain why my stuff gets downvoted, I'm a conspiracy nutter & a right winger in the eyes of the masses. It's too easy to agitate people nowadays so they'll follow you to the ends of the earth.

2

germantree 1 week ago

Nothing from your comment makes you look like either a conspiracy nutter or a right winger. At least in my opinion...

2

hrqmonteiro 2 weeks ago

Isn't one of the purpose of cryptocoins to make yourself free of taxes?

0

frank__costello 1 week ago

How does owning cryptocurrencies fund roads and schools?

1

hrqmonteiro 1 week ago

Man you have a SERIOUS problem of statism. You need years of reading and cleansing before you stop believing in this murderous and coercitive institution. And quit with the "MUH ROADS" argument.

0

frank__costello 1 week ago

Thanks for not answering. Let me rephrase: how does a tax-less, cryptocurrency society fund public goods?

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hrqmonteiro 1 week ago

There's no such thing as public goods. "Public" goods are personal goods that were stolen from people, via taxation. The public goods theory is a fallacy (read some Gustave de Molinari) On society you have two kinds of antagonizing classes: The voluntary-producers (market, working class) and the coercitive-non producers (takers), which are the government and all the bureaucrat apparatus. Every worker produces something, and every bureaucrat takes something, and has to produce nothing. Then he goes on with the very thing he took, fund something and says: SEE, THIS WOULDN'T EXIST IF IT WEREN'T BY ME. Then you people applaud and believe this crap. Your notion is based on a opinion in which society only thrives with state. And i get is, is not your fault, i've been there too. The state triumphed on the public opinion, it won his cause, cause it is, for 5000 years, putting on people's minds that it's very existence is necessary and all things can only exist with it. And i know, your next step would ask "but name a society that existed without state thou xDDDD", again, there's another victory of state in your mind, cause brainwashed you to think all things in society only are possible cause of States. If you really put your neurocells to work for a bit you were clearly came to a conclusion that people wouldn't stop paying for roads and schools to exist if some centralized institution ceased to exist. Like, the institution ceases then people start to give up on having these things? Come on, you are better than that. Coercion is immoral, period. Every sytem based on it is evil. The same way people pay for roads and schools now (via taxes, coercitively), people can do voluntarily. And do it better than goverment (like all things on earth, everything that is done outside the state outdoes the state version). The state was a monopoly on many things for centuries, like manufacturing, laws, army, post, mail, banks, paper money emission and so on. And everyday government loses monopoly on some activity and the activity keeps thriving on another way. Private armies are larger than public armies today, almost all mail on world is private, the same with banks, papermoney emission and a lot of bureaucratic activities that once was made just by government. Same thing goes with funding schools and roads. Just stop thinking "but HOW COULD A SOCIETY HAVE ROADS WITHOUT GOVERNMENT" cause that's just lame logic. Also, PS: I literally can't understand why someone is using cryptocurrency if your interest is not on be free from FIAT currency and the things the government impose on you. Like, what the hell? you got all upside down.

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hrqmonteiro 1 week ago

I live in a shitty country with a currency that worths nothing, even less if compared to US Dollars. Every day my central bank injects millions of paper money on the country and artificially changes the Interest Rates. The inflation is going on and on forever. Abouth 7 months of my salary on the year, is the equivallent of how many in taxes i have to pay to my government (is serious, search the taxes in Brazil and you will see). I pay over 80% on taxes-over-products, over 60% on importation goods, about 25% on income tax. And some more than a thousand (!) fees on other stuff. Also, in here, there are some nonsense stuff, like, tax you have to pay for having a house (is like a rent, even though you are the estate owner, the tax is called IPVA, you can look through), or a tax you have to pay every year just for having a car, this one is called IPVU. And, as i said, my currency is decreasing in buying-power every hour, cause of the inflation. My public school system literally sucks, so i have to pay for private schools. Same thing with the public healthcare. So, do the maths, i finance a public school which doesn't work and a public healthcare in which people die on the lines waiting for response (again, serious: search these stuff in Brazil). So why i have to fund all things in double? Like, i have to fund a public school AND a private school (since the public school i am obliged to, coercively, via taxes). And same thing to the healthcare. Taxes. Are. Not. Moral. Things. In a tax-less system i could perfecly use just the money i would pay in taxes to fund, just once, the best system for me. Then everyone would do just the same. Actually here in Brazil, there's a calculation. The amount of taxes a very poor family pays on public school is, approximately, 3 times more than the money they would pay on a private school (who works way better). So what's the point here? And the same thing goes with public health, in which the taxes could perfectly fund a private system that would prevent poor people from dying on the lines of the hospital waiting for care. I get that if you live in US, or Europe, you may still have this mentality of "paying taxes is a noble thing, you fund things to people who doesn't have nothing". All right then, if it is a noble thing, then people will keep doing that voluntarily??? What stops you (and them) of doing it? If the system would go tax-less starting TODAY, let's say, what would prevent you of being a noble person and helping people voluntarily? Just do it, then.

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fleixx 1 week ago

You can't argue against taxes just because your country fucked it up. Not taxes are immoral, your govrnment is bad, apparently. I'm sorry for your situation but this is an entirely different problrem.

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hrqmonteiro 1 week ago

No, no taxes are justified. Come and justify coercion with moral and ethics values. I am waiting.

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fleixx 1 week ago

Very easy. The wealthy pay more taxes and therefore help the people in need. Of course you have to set this uo right, without corruption and loopholes. The wealthy remain wealthy, the poorest have a bit more. Then security. If you have no state, everybody is responsible for it's one security. This is an expensive chaos, where only the wealthy are secure, if at all. We all come from there. Then is it moral to take taxes from workers. The thing is, there is no industry without state. Industry needs stability and this is only possible with longterm security. So, first there was a state. And then productive industries evolved. Who is the state? It's everybidy. So who pays the state? Everybody. But again, of course, you can missmanage a government. Absolutely.

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hrqmonteiro 1 week ago

First, wealthy already pay more taxes, it has ever been like this since the genesis of the modern state. Since taxes are progressive. Second, the "more taxes to the wealthy" has been debunked economically many, many times. The more you tax the job creators (employees), less jobs you are creating, cause, since everyone is moved by profit, it they have to pay more to operate, they will cut costs doing layoffs, this is basic principle. So you create a loop. You tax more the wealthy to supposedly "give more to the poor", but poor people also depend on jobs, since they don't have the knowledge about savings and investments. So you screw them a little more by creating disemployment. Also, your solution to poor people is paying taxes? Like, seriously? You think "taxing more the wealthy" will make the poorest have a bit more? I didn't knew the taxes went to poor people, i thought it went to government, that dissolves the money in more than a thousand ways, and just some of them are actually going to welfare. You think poor people are better paying taxes and paying fees on products than if they kept one hundred percent of their paychecks and spend them on what they really needed? What a bold statement. And last, about the security: you don't have security WITH the state, it simply failed, and the problem when you monopolize this is that you don't have another option. Like, you live in a bad neighborhood that suffers from robbery, murders and stuff. And you call the police everytime and it doesn't help at all? So what do you do? Fuck you, right? Are you a black person who suffers discrimination and see all your friends being murdered by police brutality? Fuck you, right? You have just the state option. And you are condoning it? You like it this way, a monopoly? I don't get how people think all monopolies are bad but when you talk about the state monopolies they go like "heeey, whait a minute, that's actually the only way". Same way with courts, and so on. Government is not necessary for the fulfillment of things. There are plenty options. The thing is, when you compare a coercive force (state) vs a voluntary force, the coercitive one has an advantage for its own, is that it can force people to accept it. So from the dawn of modern states, the states are forcing you to accept it. So we have centuries of people "learning" how to accept "how the state is the only option ever", even though we really are not capable of trying other means, because what? Exactly, cause if you try it, the state comes with it's monopoly of force and destroys you.

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fleixx 1 week ago

If you elect sb like Bolsonaro it's not fun to pay taxes, I get it. But in states with working governments most people are fine with paying taxes. It's not theft, it's sharing. If everything is buildt voluntarly only the wealthy will profit from this "public goods".

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decentralizedgames 2 weeks ago

All those living in Peurto Rico are likely only there because the US Fed doesn’t disclose tax expense revenue spending, post-collection, it’s a fucking fraud. Paying taxes should be a noble thing if your respect your country. It’s the important fact of having it all visible on a public blockchain so say you know your 7 cents, out of your taxes paid to the treasury, along with others portions, goes to a road somewhere, etc. This leaves open discussion for military funding, which would have to be delegated a certain amount and encrypted. Military has always been the siphoning scheme for the corruption laundering... sickening. We need to prevent such things.

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hrqmonteiro 2 weeks ago

This is actually a joke, right? Coercion is immoral, inefﬁcient, and unnecessary for human life and fulﬁllment. Taxation is theft. All of the things that are build with coercive money could (and would) be created with voluntary money.

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zappadoing 2 weeks ago

the main point here was to force the cantonal banks to accept payments from crypto companies. They would refuse a payment from Bity or BTCS to your own account, but can not refuse a payment to the state's account. And honestly I find it really a good way to force adoption.

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winkerback 2 weeks ago

Even though its a clickbait title, is there a reason why most new Bitcoin developments and degrees of acceptance seem to be in Europe?

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RichKille 2 weeks ago

Because powers that be want to keep control.

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TheCurious0ne 2 weeks ago

Because US is going down the drain.

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MaxStrength_Capsule 2 weeks ago

Waste of screen time

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EconomyIntroduction 2 weeks ago

https://1ml.com/

This is where one can check lightning stats. We were sitting at 1000 BTC for months and now are sitting at 1056. Honestly guys, nothing to brag about. Keep pushing companies to adopt lightning.

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EllipticSeed 2 weeks ago

Here is some more data: https://bitcoinvisuals.com/ln-capacity

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crazypostman21 2 weeks ago

I'm really enjoying lightning I'm glad it exists! It's much easier these days then it was at the beginning. The apps for phones just make it so usable even for novices now. I wish the US would figure out this tax situation. IRS came out and said even microtransactions and used the example of less than a dollar are still required to be reported on taxes! What a pain in the azz!!!!

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SnowBastardThrowaway 2 weeks ago

$12.4m? And it is almost 2021?

Embarrassing TBH

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Bitcoin_to_da_Moon 2 weeks ago

-> These stats only count public channels. So it's a subset of the total capacity!

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tommygunz007 2 weeks ago

I saw 'Rally' and checked the price. Still under 20k :-(

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otisdekoning 2 weeks ago

Lmao $12.4 million while defi TVL hit $9.5 billion last night. Just putting things in perspective here

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Eislemike 2 weeks ago

If ln was a shitcoin that used its pump taking advantage of noobs to reward people to make unneeded transactions so it could tout lots of transactions to noobs to pump coin price to reward more people to make unneeded Transactions etc, then that would be a good comparison. But LN isn’t Ponziesque/ponzi adjacent.

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cardboardcoffins 2 weeks ago

You can't really compare those two volumes. Defi is going through a speculative bubble at the moment. The transactions going through Defi are mostly investments. And I would guess that a small number of whales are responsible for most of that volume. The transactions going through lighting are mostly small payments (as intended), not investments. So naturally their value is much lower.

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poisonpeppers 2 weeks ago

Anyone know where I can find a basic- intermediate explination of blockchain forks and what they mean/ main ones and differences. I gotta say I’m pretty confused

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almkglor 2 weeks ago

Lightning Network is not a blockchain fork, it is built *on top of* Bitcoin.

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poisonpeppers 2 weeks ago

Oh so what does that actually mean is it like an add on

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cardboardcoffins 2 weeks ago

It's more than just an add on. It's another layer of technology, in the sense that it *depends* on the lower layer, but *obfuscates* it at the same time. A similar example would be the Web, which is a layer on top of the Internet, which is a layer on top of the phone network.

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poisonpeppers 2 weeks ago

Good explanation thank you!

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Friendly_Crab 2 weeks ago

No think about the different transportation layers that make up the internet. Each one sits on top of each other, with the most basic being tcpIP

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almkglor 2 weeks ago

The most basic is IP. TCP/IP means "TCP on top of IP".

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EllipticSeed 2 weeks ago

IP is already the third layer of the internet.

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saladfingers6 2 weeks ago

If I'm not mistaken all the new capital locked up from mobile wallets in private channels aren't counted in this statistics as it's hidden

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bitbug42 2 weeks ago

Exactly. These stats only count public channels. So it's a subset of the total capacity.

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sdgsgsdfgdfgsdfg 2 weeks ago

How do I use lightning on my Iphone?

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BubblegumTitanium 2 weeks ago

I used BlueWallet if you have a Mac as well then let me know I have a cool set of apps I think you might like. !lntip 1024

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lntipbot 2 weeks ago

Hi u/BubblegumTitanium, thanks for tipping u/sdgsgsdfgdfgsdfg **1024** satoshis! *** *[^(More info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/lntipbot/wiki/index) ^| [^(Balance)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=balance&message=!balance) ^| [^(Deposit)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=deposit&message=!deposit 10000) ^| [^(Withdraw)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=withdraw&message=!withdraw put_invoice_here) ^| ^(Something wrong? Have a question?) [^(Send me a message)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=drmoore718)*

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Bambie231 2 weeks ago

How do I use lighting on MY phone?

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Funyug 2 weeks ago

Can use eclair wallet by acinq

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SnowWhiteMemorial 2 weeks ago

Bluewallet or Breeze are good apps., then you can cashout this. !lntip 1000

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xsanchez21 2 weeks ago

Muun and Phoenix are good wallets as well

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highdra 2 weeks ago

People used to recommend Eclair. Is that one still any good? Seems to work well to me but I haven't seen it recommended in a while.

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xsanchez21 2 weeks ago

Eclair is good, but Phoenix is their new wallet that is 100% in LN. I used Eclair and ended deleting it. I like more the UX of Phoenix and Muun.

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rodmandirect 2 weeks ago

I just downloaded the Muun app on my iPhone, which looks super simple and easy. Can anyone tell me why this one in particular is a bad idea?

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TulipTrading 2 weeks ago

Muun is actually a Bitcoin wallet that can send to lightning invoices. Unless it was updated already there is no way to receive on lightning. (i think they are working on it though)

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xsanchez21 2 weeks ago

Bad idea? What do you mean?

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rodmandirect 2 weeks ago

Bad idea, like putting bitcoin on it could result in it all getting taken from me in an edit scam.

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xsanchez21 2 weeks ago

I don't think so, Muun is one of the most secure Bitcoin wallets out there, and you own your private key. Even if Muun goes out of business, you still have access to your bitcoin. Just make sure to backup your private key and don't share it or save it online.

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lntipbot 2 weeks ago

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mrmishmashmix 2 weeks ago

Glad my 0.03btc pushed it to a new high.

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[deleted] 2 weeks ago

[deleted]

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mrmishmashmix 2 weeks ago

Hehehehe. Sure, if it helps you feel better. Sure you do.

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senfmeister 2 weeks ago

Congrats. On Lightning?

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scoobysi Platinum | QC: CC 416, XRP 337 2 weeks ago

$12mn is what a maxi would normally call a shit coin

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That-Wrap 2 weeks ago

America baby, You Gotta Pay To Play!!

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Dogstar35 2 weeks ago

I know fighting the good fight has been one of Ted’s objectives but I hope it is not getting too emotional and commercial decisions are correctly made for the project - those who try to change history first are not always rewarded kindly....

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umoop 2 weeks ago

Well if his Cooley lawyers thinks they can absolutely win this case, what would you do...?

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Dogstar35 2 weeks ago

Do as little financial damage to the project as possible as well as getting to a result that allows Kin to continue unencumbered. Lawyers always back themselves and the longer you engage with them the higher their fees mount to....I personally would also think about people who invested in Kin and think about their best interests too....

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umoop 2 weeks ago

Fair points, I agree with you.

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Circle1001 2 weeks ago

" those who try to change history first are not always rewarded kindly " so correct.

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cblukraine86 2 weeks ago

Well if Ted/ KIK Interactive had to settle now, they arguably have the money for it (thanks to the SOL they are getting). A settlement wouldn't be as much of a win...but I would still be happy just to put all this behind us for good.

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ideaDash 2 weeks ago

What's "SOL", as you say?

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ideaDash 2 weeks ago

Nevermind, I see, the token for Solana.

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rd2go 2 weeks ago

Interesting ending, for now. Tezos still not marked as security. It seams like the general sentiment is it’s ok to pay SEC fine as long as it gets the project out of crosshairs for the time being. Even though there is exactly no more clarity.

It almost feels like crypto projects have to pay the local school bully for existing, and deal with the shakedown.

Interesting to see what this, if any, plays into our case.

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lordofthekin 2 weeks ago

Surely, if it’s it’s about ‘protecting investors’ either you held an illegal ICO or you didn’t? It’s definitely paying the bully. Good on Ted. It’s a long wait but standing up is important. Annoying but necessary.

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issahodl 2 weeks ago

Indeed. David (Kik) 🤾 v. Goliath (SEC) 👹

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lordofthekin 2 weeks ago

🤜👃💥

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lakerz690 Platinum | QC: DGB 93, ETH 42, CC 34 | TraderSubs 2 weeks ago

I never understood why ppl hyped Tezos so much during the ICO. There's literally nothing to be excited about, where's the innovation... oh wait let me stake my Tezos so I can let it sit like a bank account so I can collect a measly APR.

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5ix7y73n 2 weeks ago

Astroturfing + crypto = $$$

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