Doggybone_treat Platinum | QC: CC 340, ETH 109 | TraderSubs 79 1 day ago

Can't wait till tomorrow to hop on it. Selling all my stocks holding on fidelity and buy as much as possible. Saving a few to grab ETH ETF when it happens too.

1

ssbc007 Tin 1 day ago

Are GBTC holders a loser?

2

diamondbored Platinum | QC: ETH 38, CC 118 | TraderSubs 38 1 day ago

So basically another clickbait post

1

coinfeeds-bot Approved CC Bot 1 day ago

tldr; The Securities and Exchange Commission has approved a Bitcoin futures ETF. The new fund won't give you shares backed by Bitcoin, but shares tied a bundle of contracts to buy Bitcoin in the future. ProShares will be first out of the gate in this new frontier of crypto ETFs.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

1

kyle_h2486 Platinum | QC: BTC 26, CC 213 | r/WallStreetBets 1 1 day ago

I’ll be a weiner for sure

2

BigLongFootDoctor Platinum | QC: CC 678 1 day ago

Thought this article would have meat and bones but it's all filler

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1

2

25 4

RealFunction 8 hs ago

good to see the real priorities being addressed.

1

DrestinBlack 9 hs ago

We really need to hear from an official Gemini rep on this - just to be certain. u/gemini_George ?

1

Tim-Whatley-DDS Yesterday

yes, and other reasons as well

2

YaBastaaa Yesterday

Clowns will not even let me buy a Shiba coin

1

SexualDeth5quad Yesterday

Thanks for "protecting" us NY AG. /s

2

russiansausagae Yesterday

grabs popcorn in a 3rd world country

2

Cryptologic_Al Yesterday

Makes no mistake Letitia James is a total and uttermost scumbag. She's a spiteful shill of the left

1

Vintagekt Yesterday

Just in case there were not enough reasons to leave this crap hole...

2

flowfaster Yesterday

Have you looked into defi such as AAVE and the like?

3

DisorientedPanda Yesterday

Damn governments really hate people

5

samfromdeath Yesterday

Just initiated a request to transfer to Celcius. Might just wait until it's all over. (Cancelled it)

0

Lggg1991 Yesterday

is this why they want it to be centralized right?

1

idigholes Yesterday

UST on Anchor Protocol - 19.5% apy

1

Kevin3683 Yesterday

AAVE and Curve as well.

1

comfyggs Staker Yesterday

New York, New Yooooooooork! 🎶

1

Gillioni Yesterday

Nexo got a cease and desist, Celsius got a request for further information. BlockFi had already stopped operations in NY. The 3 other crypto lenders are unidentified as of now.

1

pattycakes999 Yesterday

I think I’d probably sell all my crypto if that happened in my state tbh

1

audis56MT Yesterday

I guess enjoy the ride as long as we can. This is going to suck if they clamping things down. But they do want their huge junk of the cut and leave us stranded

1

acemachine123 Yesterday

Use AAVE and get rid of centralized platforms. 10.23% on USDC right now and even better than Celsius. Preserve the ethos of crypto. No state can prevent you from using it

8

Amazonkers Yesterday

It's looks like it's usually around 5-6 % on V2. You really want to use Polygon or Avax markets to not get eaten up by fees.

1

scrubberduckymaster Yesterday

i was using AAVE on Polygon but the rates for everything dropped. The fees on ETH are to high for me to use it there sadly. Im researching LP and maybe will try some of that out on Polygon but AAVE is dead there

1

Kevin3683 Yesterday

There’s really no reason to pay high gas fees on Ethereum anymore. Arbitrum and Polygon are just two ways to avoid it. Arbitrum is very easy to use.

1

Maleficent_Plankton 10 hs ago

There's still very little support for Layer 2 on fiat on/offramps. Someone on CDC was complaining about $4 fees for an arbitrum transfer earlier today, so it's still somewhat high.

1

scrubberduckymaster Yesterday

Use Polygon and love it but AAVE and CURVE have horrible rates there. Have not tried arbitrum. But i still need to pay eth fees to stake and restake my matic

1

nandoboom Yesterday

Yup all these crybabies, yelling about tyranny and oppression, hyperbole much, just use the myriad of defi platforms available

0

Maciston1 Yesterday

You're screwed for crypto in New York in general.

2

ThorsHammer8888 Yesterday

I know. Thanks for the reminder and encouragement 😆

6

Reptile415 Yesterday

Need to replace the government with a DAO

2

nambrosch Yesterday

There's no reason to be upset - this is how finance works in America. I'm optimistic it will get worked out, hopefully in favor of companies who play by the rules.

1

DANNYBOYLOVER Yesterday

The conspiracy theories in every freaking thread this past week has just been so obnoxious.

1

thik-luv Yesterday

Abra app does good with interest, not sure about NY

1

Consistent_Loquat587 Yesterday

This city is a cesspool of filth and corruption, I want to leave so badly but can’t due to my husband , I need to wait a few years:(

2

Rude_Bagel Yesterday

RIP Celsius.

Pretty much leaves Gemini and Coinbase as the only ones to offer any kind of interest program for some cryptos.

1

SJ0 Yesterday

Coinbase already bailed out. There are various other platforms that are illegally operating in NY and do lending.

1

YaBastaaa Yesterday

Send me the info

1

SJ0 Yesterday

Eg Coinzoom. Their money transmitter liscence in NY is still pending.

1

Rude_Bagel Yesterday

Coinbase still allows you to earn 2% APY for DAI, and 0.15% for USDC. But at the point a fiat savings account at a credit union is better than those rates.

2

QM9999 Yesterday

Maybe setup a Delaware company and use that to register with Celsius. Just an idea

3

7 3

JavaBatman - @JavaBatman 1 day ago

> In other words, governments with fiat currencies — including the United States — have the power to expand the quantity of those currencies. If they choose to do so, they risk inflating the prices of necessities like food, gas, and housing.

> In recent months, consumers have experienced higher price inflation than they have seen in decades. A major reason for the increases is that central bankers around the world — including those at the Federal Reserve — sought to compensate for Covid-19 lockdowns with dramatic monetary inflation. As a result, nearly $4 trillion in newly printed dollars, euros, and yen found their way from central banks into the coffers of global financial institutions.

This automatically assumes that the inflationary issues we are facing come from demand. However, it is very clearly a supply issue. Namely, the closure of plants and factories due to labor shortages, lockdowns, and geopolitical issues. When you reduce the supply of goods and services while demand is left the same, you get higher prices. Furthermore, OPEC isn't producing more, which increases oil prices and the prices of all other industries. The chip shortage, which is fundamentally a supply shortage, is also increasing the prices of all other goods and services that rely on chips.

This is not an issue of demand. It's similar to the 1970s: supply shocks that led to an increase in the price level.

unyttigfjelltol - @unyttigfjelltol 1 day ago

>Third, bitcoin is more secure than gold. A single bitcoin address carried on a USB thumb drive could theoretically hold as much value as the U.S. Treasury holds in gold bars — without the need for costly militarized facilities like Fort Knox to keep it safe.

BTC does not eliminate the need for security. The USB in question would need military grade security, and the exclusivity of the claim of its holder over the ledger entries recorded in it would never be demonstrably secure, because BTC's value is information that can simultaneously exist in multiple locations.

The article reads like a high school term paper. BTC is a fiat currency whose scarcity is determined by the actions of some random computer programmers who, for now, aren't leveraging that power for their own personal benefit. Gold is a natural element whose scarcity is a function of the laws of nature, and there are no people today who can measurably exercise their own power to reduce its scarcity.

Also, not to nitpick, but a single gold bar also could theoretically have value equivalent to the entire BTC Blockchain. A single dollar bill could too. This would be the case if BTC was valueless. The article isn't very well reasoned.

DantesKite - @DantesKite 1 day ago

To those with hopes and dreams in Bitcoin I suggest reading Nassim Taleb’s black paper. It does a great job outlining every major problem and (while in its current version and even a few iterations from now) it won’t succeed as a currency.

zz865 - @zz865 1 day ago

> By increasing the number of U.S. dollars in circulation...the U.S. government can also reduce the value of a dollar in terms of goods and services, which is equivalent to...inflation

This is a pretty simplistic view as for most of the last few decades Europe and Japan has been expanding the money supply without causing any deflation - and still caught in a deflationary spiral.

But the question of money supply should be flexible - it has to be. Eg if US population expands and the economy expands every year you need more money every year. It was a problem with the gold standard - you needed to get more gold in order for your economy to expand.

westcort - @westcort 1 day ago

This is what Bitcoin was designed to do—-make the net safer by incentivizing the government to reveal the forms of encryption it can break, starting with SHA256: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28860239

TekMol - @TekMol 1 day ago

Every time I read about inflation, it is only attributed to governments via the central banks.

I wonder how it works with the private banks.

Say some entrepreneur goes to their bank and borrows $100k. They try to build a business, pay rent, employees, SAAS license costs, advertising and ... goes bankrupt.

So the $100k never comes back to the bank.

Did this create $100k?

TradingPlaces - @TradingPlaces 1 day ago

Another article premised on “sound money” and the money supply theory of inflation that understands neither.

Show all comments on Hackernews

16 3

coinfeeds-bot Approved CC Bot 4 days ago

tldr; At the Black Blockchain Summit in Washington, D.C., an estimated 1,500 mostly Black people have gathered to talk about crypto as a way to make money while disrupting centuries-long patterns of oppression. "What we really need to be doing is to now utilize the technology behind blockchain to enhance the quality of life for our people," says Christopher Mapondera, the first official speaker.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

0

svanapps 4 days ago

r/Bitcoin 📰 r/BitcoinBeginners 📰 r/CryptoMarkets 📰 r/CryptoCurrency 📰 r/crypto 📰 r/CryptoToFuture

1

trrrring Gold | QC: CC 120 4 days ago

Online and in person, on the campus of Howard University in Washington, D.C., an estimated 1,500 mostly Black people have gathered to talk about crypto—decentralized digital money backed not by governments but by blockchain technology, a secure means of recording transactions—as a way to make money while disrupting centuries-long patterns of oppression.

I'm not black myself, but good for them! I think crypto currencies can level the playing field and diminish oppression and discrimination.

0

a_lot_of_aaaaaas Silver | QC: CC 28 4 days ago

Wait. The one thing i loved about crytpo is that everybody is equal. Crypto is not racist. Everybody can buy it or sell it no matter how you look or where you are coming from.

It's the most neutral asset you can buy in the world.

Now I do t read the entire article but after one sentence I will already give a standing ovation to the woke people who can find a way to even blame crypto for being racist.

The entire fact that there is a black crypto community is cringe as fuck to be honest. This is the most non racist thing on earth and people still want to blame others and distance themselves I a group.

It actually pains me to see this. Crypto is not about color in any way and that is beautiful. Now they try to ruin that.

2

hubbykins-okcfan Platinum | QC: CC 720 4 days ago

Long read but good article

0

BuRR1017_ 1 - 2 years account age. -15 - 35 comment karma. 4 days ago

so lets make crypto racist too now

3

Cappy2020 CRYPTO STATS GUY 4 days ago

Can already tell this comment section is going to be a dumpster fire.

Grabbing the popcorn now 🍿

3

Xaq-Attaq Redditor for 3 months. 4 days ago

Bitcoin isn't going to change your culture. Statistics don't lie. That change is only going to come from black people holding up other black people to a higher standard and way of living. I grew up poor as shit in a wonderful place called Pritchard Alabama before some of you jump on that "you just privileged talking" stance. If you know you know. We are all the same deep down in our hearts and on a molecular scale. Stop letting stupid shit and politicians divide us. Stop living in the past and start embracing the future. I got a slogan.

nomoreexcuses

2

Boopinator69 Tin | 5 months old 4 days ago

Can we for once—just once—make something not about idpol ☠️ Bitcoin is Bitcoin for all

3

failed_state_medz Platinum | QC: CC 296, ETH 27 | TraderSubs 27 4 days ago

Crypto has become a haven for passive income. Black, white or yellow. Let us all bask in its basket. There's enough for all us early adopters

4

BrumRuggat Bronze 4 days ago

Crypto at its best is a way for the oppressed to create wealth outside a system designed to prevent them from doing so. I love when it lives up to its potential.

2

IBeefSupremeI Platinum | 6 months old | QC: CC 327 | MiningSubs 4 days ago

Good to see crypto being more of an equalizer for those who traditional banking systems have failed.

3

mmmmtttt1988 Gold | 1 month old | QC: CC 65 4 days ago

Black bitcoin matters

0

Proffessor_Uni-Daddy Bronze | 3 months old | QC: CC 16 4 days ago

Wow. Black Bitcoin, that is ridiculous. Black, white, or brown, Bitcoin doesnt give a fuck. One reason why its awesome.

3

lonewolf210 Platinum | QC: CC 179 | r/Politics 51 4 days ago

That's the entire point of the article which you clearly didn't read...

0

Proffessor_Uni-Daddy Bronze | 3 months old | QC: CC 16 3 days ago

the comment was more directed at the entire concept of black bitcoin.

1

lonewolf210 Platinum | QC: CC 179 | r/Politics 51 3 days ago

Black Bitcoin just refers to the black community that is focused around bitcoin. The article talks about how the community views Bitcoin as an opportunity to move past prejudice from the past and examines how minority communities are adopting crypto faster then white communities

1

hubbykins-okcfan Platinum | QC: CC 720 4 days ago

I don’t think you read the article lol

0

Proffessor_Uni-Daddy Bronze | 3 months old | QC: CC 16 3 days ago

the comment was more directed at the entire concept of black bitcoin.

1

CryptoBumGuy Holochain > Your favorite blockchain 4 days ago

Media: White people bad

9

Hawke64 Gold | QC: CC 79 4 days ago

Also media: somebody is dividing america

2

MoodSoggy Platinum | QC: CC 856 4 days ago

Which is quite sad. I am not racist at all. I like everyone, BUT I fell pretty bad, because I am from "privileged" group...I am white, middle age men working in corporate...everyone can make a complain on me and blame me from discrimination:D...

1

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21 3

coinfeeds-bot 10 hs ago

tldr; As of mid-2021, the largest cryptocurrency exchange in the United States, Coinbase, had 68 million verified users. As many as 21% of U.S. hedge funds now own bitcoin in some form, according to surveys. Ben Bernanke once noted that the US government has a technology, called a printing press, that allows it to produce as many US dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

2

jankis2020 1 day ago

Sent this to my mother-in-law, father-in-law, and grandfather. One of the best essays ever written about Bitcoin.

2

secularshepherd 1 day ago

That was legitimately super educational and accessible. A+

2

229media 1 day ago

Great article of his.I hope he Keep up the good work!

2

brownnotesamba 1 day ago

This is Bitcoin cheerleading, I think. And it completely fails to account for the fact that Bitcoin is not a standardized currency--so long as dogecoin, for example, is permitted to exist, the value of Bitcoin cannot be stable.

But that's just, like, my opinion man.

16

Xanather 1 day ago

What does dogecoin have to do with the valuation of bitcoin? You realize you don't need bitcoin to buy dogecoin?

3

brownnotesamba Yesterday

Nothing, that's the problem. I think that memecoins mean that bitcoin is still just as much at risk of inflation as any other fiat currency, so long as someone will accept it in trade. There's nothing preventing you from making and mining 21 million 'xanathercoin' right now. Every new cryptocurrency immediately acts as a legitimate (if miniscule) competitor to the price of bitcoin itself. If your dealer accepts dogecoin--or ethereum or xanathercoin or whatever else--the exclusive trade status, and therefore value, of bitcoin falls. This has the same effect on bitcoin as debasement or inflation, in that there's more money moving the same amount of goods in the market, so the price of money falls. We're in a speculative bubble with crypto now--its price doesn't reflect it's value, just it's memetic popularity and the lagging tech regulations that permit it to be used with impunity on the black and grey markets. Ride that wave, make your money. Just don't believe for a moment that it's special or magic and somehow immune to a price crash. But again, just my opinion.

4

RadiumGaga 1 day ago

I look forward to the day that Tether undergoes a real audit...

7

PositiveKindness 1 day ago

Fantastic article, truly a gem 💎

4

future_value_ 1 day ago

Good article

3

autotldr Tin | r/Politics 90 1 day ago

This is the best tl;dr I could make, original reduced by 97%. (I'm a bot)

One critic of the Fed's policies, MicroStrategy CEO Michael Saylor, compares the value of today's Treasury bonds to a "Melting ice cube." Last May, Ray Dalio, founder of Bridgewater Associates and a former bitcoin skeptic, said "[p]ersonally, I'd rather have bitcoin than a [Treasury] bond.

Around 50 million Americans own bitcoin today, and it's likely that Americans and U.S. institutions own a plurality, if not the majority, of the bitcoin in circulation?-?a sum worth hundreds of billions of dollars.

Instead of restricting bitcoin in a desperate attempt to forestall the inevitable, federal policymakers would do well to embrace the role of bitcoin as a geopolitically neutral reserve asset; work to ensure that the United States continues to lead the world in accumulating bitcoin-based wealth, jobs, and innovations; and ensure that Americans can continue to use bitcoin to protect themselves against government-driven inflation.

Extended Summary | FAQ | Feedback | Top keywords: bitcoin^#1 gold^#2 Treasury^#3 bond^#4 us^#5

1

svanapps 2 days ago

r/Bitcoin 📰 r/BitcoinBeginners 📰 r/CryptoMarkets 📰 r/CryptoCurrency 📰 r/crypto 📰 r/CryptoToFuture

1

coinfeeds-bot 2 days ago

tldr; As of mid-2021, the largest cryptocurrency exchange in the United States, Coinbase, had 68 million verified users. As many as 21% of U.S. hedge funds now own bitcoin in some form, according to surveys. Ben Bernanke once noted that the US government has a technology, called a printing press, that allows it to produce as many US dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

2

Aussiehash 2 days ago

Here's are the tweet summaries

https://mobile.twitter.com/Avik/status/1440059236927430658

https://twitter.com/APompliano/status/1449497119983902720?s=20

6

sonicjr Platinum | QC: CC 381 4 weeks ago

Quite possibly the best take I've ever seen from a mainstream news outlet.

Hit the nail on the freaking head, great job National Affairs.

2

Adessecian Silver | QC: CC 18 4 weeks ago

Fine, go ahead and make me a maximalist

2

nathan4845 Silver | 4 months old | QC: CC 46 | VET 32 4 weeks ago

Very good read. Informative and worth the time to understand the situation we’re in.

2

coinfeeds-bot Approved CC Bot 4 weeks ago

tldr; As of mid-2021, the largest cryptocurrency exchange in the United States, Coinbase, had 68 million verified users. As many as 21% of U.S. hedge funds now own bitcoin in some form, according to surveys. Ben Bernanke once noted that the US government has a technology, called a printing press, that allows it to produce as many US dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

1

LF_S--oma Gold | QC: CC 44 4 weeks ago

Curious to see the stats on how much of an affect inflation of the dollar will have on bitcoin, eth, etc

1

AccomplishedJob5411 4 weeks ago

This is one of the better overviews I’ve seen

2

Naeril_HS Platinum | QC: CC 241 | TraderSubs 16 4 weeks ago

Hopefully not stop to US. Let’s take over the world and burn the fuckers everywhere

1

Vulcan31 Platinum | 6 months old | QC: CC 770 4 weeks ago

That is a great summary of the fiat experiment and the decline of faith in the US credit. This is going to an incredible time for crypto to be sure in my opinion.

5

Lizzygrace1 Redditor for 17 day. 4 weeks ago

Close observation

1

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2

14 3

Xochi1 Yesterday

What kind of tax implications does this have? If you get paid in BTC and then sell it down the line? Can you know at what rate the BTC was paid to you at? How does strike help with that??

1

TooFewTulips 4 days ago

It’s such bullshit NY residents don’t have access to strike…

1

onefriedrice 4 days ago

Pro-Bitcoin states like Texas are leaving the others behind.

2

Elku- 4 days ago

EU/UK wen

1

coffee_for_dinner 4 days ago

U.K. and EU need Strike. Please Jack Ballers. 🙏🏻

1

Seldon-Crisis 4 days ago

Lastbit and Bottlepay are very similar and available in Europe. https://lastbit.io/ https://bottlepay.com/

2

rwallace1110 4 days ago

Love it. Use those cuck bucks for day-to-day essentials, stack sats for financial freedom.

1

_main_chain_ redditor for 5 weeks 4 days ago

Cool dude makes good. Wears goofy clothes while doing it. Legendary.

2

GeneralZex 4 days ago

Just changed my direct deposit to Strike, goodbye Cash App.

I wonder how Coinbase will respond to this fusillade?

3

HDmac 4 days ago

More shitcoin pumps.

2

GeneralZex 3 days ago

They just added more shitcoins to their cash back rewards on the CB card so YES lmao.

1

skralogy 4 days ago

If you get 100 dollars from work sent to you and 50 of it gets immediately turned to bitcoin do you get taxed on the remaining 50 only? Probably not right?

2

3383993 4 days ago

In those cases strike ”pay me in bitcoin” option should be 👌. Just have your employer send pay to your Strike bank-account and it is automatically converted. You set the ratio btc/fiat.

1

onefriedrice 4 days ago

Payroll at your company is going to calculate your withholding before your paycheck gets deposited. So using Strike to convert a portion of your direct deposit to BTC has no bearing on how much will be withheld (only your W-4 affects that). Of course you always owe tax on *all* your income (minus 401k & hsa contributions, deductions at filing, etc.) whether you get paid in USD or BTC or seashells. The payroll software your company uses allows you to enter in bank info (routing # and account #) for where your deposit goes. Strike will simply provide you a routing # and account # to use. Then once Strike gets your deposit on payday, it will automatically buy BTC for you, presumably at the spot price plus the typical Strike spread. You can configure how much of the deposit gets converted to BTC.

2

vaelon 4 days ago

I'd like to know too. My understanding is that yes, you will get taxed on the 50$ you converted to BTC

1

relkhadiri 2 days ago

My understanding is that you only get taxed on capital gains when you sell your BTC

1

vaelon 2 days ago

Swaps too though. So are you swapping to USDC or going Fiat -> USDC

1

esc85 4 days ago

I don't think this has an effect on taxes since there are no taxes for purchasing btc (at least in the U.S. where I live). Just think of it as splitting your pay between two bank accounts with your after-tax paycheck.

2

skralogy 4 days ago

But if you are 1099 it wouldnt Matter you would get taxed on all 100.

1

six6fans 3 days ago

Is this move of strike trigger any taxable event ?What do you think ?

1

v1ckt3r 4 days ago

Towards the end of the article he says.. "I know a guy at Strike. Close friend. Keep it between us, but he told me DCA is coming soon 😄"

Recurring Purchases on Strike would be the icing on the cake for me.
https://miro.medium.com/max/432/1\*Ur80gHz5tbq7L0SjqzEhJA.png

10

SecretlyReformed 4 days ago

Is there a way to send bitcoin from strike to cold storage?

4

budarov0 4 days ago

Does your strike hold BTC? I thought it only had dollars in it?

1

SecretlyReformed 4 days ago

Mine doesn't have any btc right now but I can see where it theoretically does. Should be the third option on the bottom on the app (for android)

1

thanksgivingbrown 4 days ago

Absolutely

6

SecretlyReformed 4 days ago

How? I couldn't figure it out when I was on the app :/

1

thanksgivingbrown 4 days ago

Click on the bitcoin tab at the bottom, then click the arrow at the top right. Scan your receiving address QR code or type it in manually

7

SecretlyReformed 4 days ago

I found it, thank you!

3

llewsor 4 days ago

this fucking guy, changing the world so profoundly that the effects will be felt for decades to come.

10

coinfeeds-bot 4 days ago

tldr; Pay Me In Bitcoin with Strike allows anyone to convert a portion of their income into bitcoin with no fees. As of October 12th, annual inflation in the US was reported at 5.4%, a 13-year high. An estimated 54% of US consumers are living paycheck-to-paycheck and 70% have less than $15,000 in savings.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

6

fireinnyc 4 days ago

Incredible

5

Nada_Lives 4 days ago

Jack, you just keep getting better!

16

Nada_Lives 4 days ago

...but your app is only available from the EvilPlay Store. Let's have it thru Apkpure, or maybe from your website!

0

Gen_Tsos_Koolaid 4 days ago

Just fucking download it if you want to use it, jesus fucking christ.

15

Nada_Lives 4 days ago

Somebody's been drinking the mainstream Koolaid!

0

8 2

15 3

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1

n1ghsthade Gold | 3 months old | QC: CC 143 3 days ago

I don't know about you all, but I am getting pretty hot of Bitcoin currently 🔥🔥

2

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1

GISP 4 days ago

... How is all that electricity generated to power the bitcoin farm?
What a load of BS.

1

baronvonbee 4 days ago

They burn dogecoin for the energy, dogecoin is a carbon neutral fuel.

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FuturologyBot 4 days ago

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naossoan 4 days ago

I was trying to find out what their MintGreen Digital Boiler is but not finding much information about it. The results are all just links to the same article basically.

How are they recovering heat from the miners to redistribute back into the system? This sounds totally infeasible to me but I don't know anything about HVAC so am probably wrong.

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loginname2424 4 days ago

theres not very much info, here. A hydronic heating system passes hot water through the floors and radiators. This system then flows the cold water back to a centralized location. North vancouver has, according to the article, 100 buildings or so on a centralized system. So you have a big boiler, and that feeds hot water to 100 buildings, which then comes back to be reheated. Gets all the radiators hot in all 100 buildings. If the bitcoin miner has convinced the district heating people to let them take the cold water return line and use it to cool their electronics, then that waste heat goes directly to the water, which is then further district heated to the target temperature. I presume it works something like this. This is a neat trick and it does allow them to get the heat from the electricity into water where it will not be wasted. This then saves money for the district by precisely the amount of energy they scavanged from the miners.

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naossoan 4 days ago

Ok I didn't understand that all those buildings are essentially functioning as a gigantic radiator. That's interesting for sure.

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Crazy-in- 4 days ago

Bitcoin to the moon

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undadatunda 4 days ago

also you can do cooling too from bitcoin miners just by cycling a gas similiar to how propane fridges work but without the propane!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy1W-uWvR9U so likely only a matter of time until some southern hot places make free cooling for houses and cities too

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Festortheinvestor 4 days ago

Woah. This is incredible. Using energy twice, Bitcoin mine and generate heat for residents. This is literally going to change the game! I’m so proud of you bitcoiners! Be the change in the world you wish to see. Peace

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aiyapandabear 4 days ago

Funny, this is how I’ve been supplementing heat in my home.

Tis a bit loud…

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flexpool 4 days ago

Glad to see more local crypto companies 👏🏻

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mangletron Well, each tether has its end. 4 days ago

The term Digital Boiler really bugs me. I'm glad they're putting the waste heat to use though.

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coinfeeds-bot 4 days ago

tldr; The City of North Vancouver has partnered with MintGreen on a district energy system that delivers heat to 100 residential and commercial buildings. MintGreen’s Digital Boilers will prevent 20,000 tonnes of GHGs from entering the atmosphere per MW compared to natural gas. Over 97% of BC Hydro's energy mix is hydroelectric. Using that energy twice eliminates waste and makes this project one of the green

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

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Exotic-End 4 days ago

Tbh, this is quite ingenious.

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burgoo 4 days ago

Over the term of the engagement, MintGreen’s Digital Boilers will prevent 20,000 tonnes of GHGs from entering the atmosphere per MW compared to natural gas. Production of both bitcoin and usable thermal energy positions the Digital Boilers to be the cost leading low-carbon heating technology.

A great example of greenwashing to claim using a bunch more electricity actually reduces GHG emissions.

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TruckBC 1813 4 days ago

Technically, since our energy in BC is green, they are reducing GHG emissions. Not saying most crypto mining is a good use of electricity but....

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burgoo 4 days ago

BC Hydro makes lots of its money selling power to Alberta which still uses a largish percentage of coal power. So this bitcoin mining operation in BC will mean Alberta will need to run its coal power plants at a slightly higher rate to generate a bit more power. That is the thing about greenwashing how people draw the box to do their GHG balance can make things look "good". A simple check is if more power being consumed with this installed? If the answer is yes it most likely is resulting in increased GHG emissions.

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tweetious 1 year ago

I read the whitepaper (I also placed an order BTW) and I have some questions.

Could you please describe (in details) the process of claiming/redeeming the tokens from the notes? Does it work similarly to Tangem notes/cards? (where you have to keep the note/card for 1 minute attached to the phone in order to send)

Also, would it be possible to send/store more kong tokens to a note (i.e. adding more than the face value). Can we use the notes as a wallet storage (i.e. send and receive)?

Also, do you have an estimation of a dispatching date?

please and thank you!

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

The [Kong Escrow Contract](https://github.com/kong-org/defi_hackathon/blob/master/contracts/escrow/Escrow.sol) is the source of truth on how claiming tokens works and is only 128 lines of code. I'd read that after the paragraph below. At a high level, tokens are locked in escrow for a certain period of time. When that time is up, tokens may be claimed from escrow by presenting an address and a signature obtained by having the note sign a recent blockhash. The contract checks that the block signed is greater than the blockheight of the date of expiration (Midnight UTC October 2nd 2022 for the first run - check the uint256 for the Unix epoch timestamp with [the notes associated contract](https://etherscan.io/address/0x7871e151bdb8a4d19dd8fa2719632937258c776f#readContract) \-in this case '[1664668800](https://www.unixtimestamp.com/index.php#1664668800)') and if the signature is valid and it's after that timestamp the the contract sends the token to the address passed. We released a "Kong Validator" app to the iOS and Google Play stores to make it easier to query notes but it was meant to be an affordance not a requirement. We wanted these notes to be self-sovereign and we aren't a necessary party to anything you do with it down the road including claim the token off of it. I'll put out some code we made for querying the notes on a raspberry pi too. I am reluctant to add wallet support to the Kong Validator app but that may be inevitable. A somewhat 'hidden' (really just, 'non-intuitive') but rad/powerful feature of the app is if you scan a note, scroll down to 'Get Instructions'; it generates .nfo file that tells you exactly what your phone did when it queried that specific note. That file is dynamic for each note scanned (though still some bugs and hardcoded values as of time of this writing). On iOS you can view that file by opening it in Notes. As an expedient measure we hardcoded our validator app to reference the [Kong Registry Contract](https://etherscan.io/token/0x177f2ace25f81fc50f9f6e9193adf5ac758e8098) \- one can certainly store more/other tokens but one would need to have a way to know where those tokens are escrowed. Adding support in the kong validator app to point out other registry contracts associated with a note is on our todo. You could do this today with your own app or on a development machine. If you have ideas on how to do this elegantly or know other projects that have I would appreciate it! Likewise one can create more sophisticated contracts (like a send/receive wallet) and associate them with a particular SiLo note too. Amongst other things, Kong is a simple proof of concept of SiLo's. It helps to think of the notes as a physical bank vault key which can interact with various safety deposit boxes containing code. Kong is written as a safety deposit box which only unlocks for the key at a distant point in the future and the safety deposit box contains the face value of Kong token. But a counter-intuitive property of physical keys is one can create more than one lock that works for it. You can have one key unlock multiple boxes for instance or even require some boxes to need multiple keys. The Kong registry contract isn't strictly necessary but it does help say this key goes to this contract in the same way DNS associates IPs with Domains. To store other token you would need another 'directory' to tell you where those contracts lay. I hope that analogy wasn't too much of a stretch. Notes purchased before the 18th will go out this week. We'll do a follow up dispatch after the New Year.

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tweetious 1 year ago

thank you for your in-depth explanation. In practice, through your app, how a transfer works (from a simple user interaction approach)? I just tap the NFC note, the app reads all the info from the chipset, and I just press a button (which calls the transfer function, interacts with the smart contract, do all the signing etc.) and moves the tokens? I am looking for a simple user approach answer here (rather than a deep technical explanation of how this works under the hood) As I said in my initial message, I only had nfc wallet experience (as a user, not as a developer) with another's company cards, where also the private key never leaves the card & never reveals, hence I am just trying to understand your implementation approach (in a user interaction aspect). Thank you very much once again, for going through and elaborate in-depth & in detail. Appreciated all your effort! Looking forward to receiving my notes package :-) Have a great day!

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

>a user interaction aspect My apologies for going off the rails on the technical side. From a UX perspective: When you get the notes you can scan via NFC to validate their authenticity. The first run of notes come out of escrow on October, 2022, after that point in time you can scan the note and remove the tokens from them via an app (by tapping a button to claim token and holding the note up to the app for about 3 seconds) or via program running on your computer with the note wired up to a serial adapter. Future runs of notes will have later expiration dates and differentiating characteristics from previous runs.

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WesternZealot 1 year ago

Is Kong a stable coin? If so, does 1 Kong = 1 USD?

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moarrgbplz 1 year ago

Any device that cannot be user-audited and flashed with user-provided firmware will necessarily depend on the user trusting the issuer. This is neat from an aesthetic standpoint, but it doesn't provide trustless physical cryptocurrency. I have to trust the issuer that the hardware does what they say it does. Even if there exists a chip that does what is claimed and has no exploitable bugs, I have to trust that the chip on the note is not counterfeit.

Because of this, there is no way to create trustless physical cryptographic banknotes. There will always be a way to counterfeit, and there will always be a need to trust the issuer.

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

Firmware+silicon provides more attack surface than just silicon. You are not making your device more secure by loading the firmware onto the chip if you are not also making the chip. This silicon self-generates keys and can attest those keys were self-generated. As discussed in the paper, the ability to export those keys in this case is a liability. We don’t yet have open silicon chips. We are working on making those. This is the state of the art in trust minimization. It can be taken further and we intend to.

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moarrgbplz 1 year ago

Yes, plain silicon is better than silicon and firmware. The point stands: I have to trust you guys to not have diddled your hardware somehow.

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thunder9861 1 year ago

This seems similar to OpenDime for bitcoin. What is the advantage of the "flexible pcb" form factor?

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

[The talk goes into this](https://slideslive.com/38920127/how-we-think-about-storing-crypto-is-broken-and-we-need-open-hardware-to-fix-it?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) but a big component of cryptocurrencies is serving the needs of the unbanked. Those groups predominantly rely on cash. Making cash backed by crypto meets these groups with usability and technology they are already familiar with. Specifically one knows how to handle, transact, and secure cash. Educating these groups in electronic wallets, storing keys, transacting anonymously, etc is a big initial ask. OpenDime is a great project and one of the more clever implementations of a hardware wallet but it’s not cash. It’s more like an iTunes gift card with a scratch off code. Validating the contents of an OpenDime via USB is not cash-like. Casascius coins are coin like but there is still this problem of knowing the private key was never duplicated. Kong chips self-generate the private key and can attest to that. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Kong notes store a private key on a secure element and store code on the EVM. This is a big departure from traditional hardware wallets that store software locally.

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laftho 1 year ago

SiLo (Silicon Locked contract), cleaver phrase, I like it. Very cool concept, hope to see this, or some version of this in the wild. Is it possible to get Kong physical notes today? How/where/when?

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

Signup for the mailing list: https://kong.cash/#products - we release some there. Someone may have some at EthDenver next month.

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Cartosys 1 year ago

The security of physical Kong notes thus crucially depend on the security guarantees provided by the embedded hardware. Specifically, the security of each individual note is reliant on whether the marginal benefits of breaking the note’s secure element (and extracting the key material) exceed the marginal costs. This marginal cost thus puts an upper bound on the value that each note can hold before attempts to break its security become economically worthwhile

I've just casually encountered this and skimmed but so far I can't find a flaw in this... Anybody smarter able to?

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CarltonFrater 1 year ago

Sell the house, car, kids, wife and buy Kong Kash??

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Cartosys 1 year ago

Done and DONE!

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

I'm one of the contributors to this project. We've just released our whitepaper today. To summarize: The Kong project proposes a novel way to create sound physical cryptocurrency, or more appropriately crypto cash. There are two primary goals for Kong: (1) achieve a form factor that is conducive to circulation for the purchase of goods and services and (2) minimize the trust required in the issuer of crypto cash given the current state of the art in secure computing. Kong notes don’t store cryptocurrency directly, but rather are backed by cryptocurrency in a trustless fashion through smart contracts. The holder of a Kong note can transparently audit – and ultimately access – the digital cryptocurrency based on a predefined set of conditions.

We were motivated to do this because we had a background in secure hardware design and had been exploring ultra-low cost, ultra-secure circuits - essentially what can we do if we only store keys on a secure element and only store code in the EVM. Kong is the fruit of this research.

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WesternZealot 1 year ago

In the Re-Locking section of the whitepaper, you talk about needing a way to alter the claim date on the note. Have you considered using an [Electronic Paper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_paper) display? The user could change the date using their phone through the secure chip or some other interface, then once it's changed, the display remains intact without the need for electricity.

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

Cost and durability. Adding active elements like batteries and screens pushes us out of the price envelop of traditional fiat cash, stamps, collectible cards, etc.

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WesternZealot 1 year ago

> Cost I've read that e-paper is cheap to produce, but I'm not sure how cheap. > durability It can be made into thin flexible sheets, but I'm not sure how flexible and durable. > batteries [It requires very little power and can work entirely off ambient energy.](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2109904-e-paper-display-runs-on-office-lights-and-never-needs-charging/)

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Bromskloss 1 year ago

Let's see if I have understood this correctly. It's an electrical circuit, which stores a private key, and whose claim to trustworthiness is - that it's difficult to extract the private key (so that you can't both pay with the note and then steal the backing asset with the key you previously extracted from the note) and - that it's difficult to imitate physically, like a regular bank note (so that you can't print your own, fake notes).

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

That's an interpretation. Another is that it's like a low-cost coldcard wallet with a fixed face value that stores those funds in escrow. You can trade the 'hardware wallet' like you can trade cash. You can verify the properties of the wallet through NFC (with a smartphone) or serial or I2C (on a raspberry pi for instance).

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STILL_DETOX 1 year ago

kinda genius

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jrod718 1 year ago

Would the gold standard be a good analogy here? Like are Kong notes backed by crypto like the dollar used to be backed by gold?

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

That's on the right track. We went into this during our devcon talk (slide 23 - [https://slideslive.com/38920127/how-we-think-about-storing-crypto-is-broken-and-we-need-open-hardware-to-fix-it](https://slideslive.com/38920127/how-we-think-about-storing-crypto-is-broken-and-we-need-open-hardware-to-fix-it)) Cash is currently backed by 'nothing'. It used to be backed by gold. At one point you could exchange notes for silver. Technically back in the day, goldsmiths issued promissory notes. Read up on [Goldsmith Bankers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldsmith_banker) and how they used to issue [bills of exchange](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negotiable_instrument). These were the predecessors to cash/cheques. Kong is a 21st century analog of a 17th century instrument. Except instead of holding onto gold in a vault under London, each note holds token in an escrow contract stored on the EVM.

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jrod718 1 year ago

>https://slideslive.com/38920127/how-we-think-about-storing-crypto-is-broken-and-we-need-open-hardware-to-fix-it Gotcha. Gonna watch this when I have a free moment. This seems like a really cool concept!

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5dayoldburrito 1 year ago

Yeah but is the Kong token backed by anything of real value like Ether?

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

The physical notes are backed by Kong token. Kong token can be earned by lockdroping ETH. One can make the case that they are backed by the opportunity cost of Eth. Can you can look at the lockdrop contract here: [https://kong.cash/pages/lockdrop](https://kong.cash/pages/lockdrop)

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5dayoldburrito 1 year ago

Why not go for a physical eth? What is the benefit of a new token except for funding your team?

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

Kong is designed to be a physical currency first and foremost. This affects issuance - see section 4: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmRNRCocj4PwKMXrd1jeUGw7ASQSuEk7BDJu5KsGuWBXAX

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Bromskloss 1 year ago

Wait, isn't Ether also backed by nothing (and rather gets its value, like regular money these days, from being in widespread use)?

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5dayoldburrito 1 year ago

Yes, so Ether is valuable because it is useful in a lot of ways for a lot of people. That's my point. Kong would be orders of magnitude more valuable if it would be backed by Ether.

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vpozy 1 year ago

Damn! This is incredible. Can’t wait to dive in 🙌🏼

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CryptoMods ModBot 1 year ago

Hello, your post was removed because your account is less than 50 days old or you do not have the required 500 comment karma to make post submissions.

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qznc_bot2 1 year ago

There is a discussion on Hacker News, but feel free to comment here as well.

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szczys 1 year ago

Uhhhh.... Hehehe

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Chris_Gammell 1 year ago

Check out that PCB, though!!

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szczys 1 year ago

I only see renders, am I missing it?

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Chris_Gammell 1 year ago

Ah! Yes, I should have linked the tweet that started it all: https://twitter.com/unicorn/status/1181794237672591361

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szczys 1 year ago

Those *are* crazy! How do they do that? Full color jet printing for silkscreen?

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Chris_Gammell 1 year ago

UV printing direct onto the material. Roland VersaUV is an example printer, we have one at mHUB. Not cheap, but at volume it wouldn't be terrible.

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fetmex Tin 6 days ago

Coz day ban it

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coinfeeds-bot Approved CC Bot 6 days ago

tldr; The U.S. is now the number one destination for bitcoin miners, eclipsing China for the first time ever.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

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svanapps 6 days ago

r/Bitcoin 📰 r/BitcoinBeginners 📰 r/CryptoMarkets 📰 r/CryptoCurrency 📰 r/crypto 📰 r/CryptoToFuture

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Fantastic-Software85 GERONIMO!!! 6 days ago

The IRS is foaming at the mouth on how many taxes they think they will receive.

IRS is bullish on U.S. Bitcoin mining

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El_Sabbath Gold | 2 months old | QC: CC 71 | IOTA 6 6 days ago

Is it worth mining in US despite the taxes?

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Cappy2020 CRYPTO STATS GUY 6 days ago

This is welcome news. It always bothered me that China controlled so much of the mining aspect, as they could ban crypto (which they’ve now done) with a snap of the finger and severely affect the market.

The US seems much more open to crypto and thus more unlikely to ban it.

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riddled_with_errors Tin 6 days ago

So the US mining industry is making a comeback after all!

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tripping-banter Bronze | 3 months old | QC: CC 16 6 days ago

China is irrelevant to crypto now.

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baccisoni Bronze | 1 month old 6 days ago

Yes, it’s true

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LF_S--oma Gold | QC: CC 44 6 days ago

China still has miners? I’m shocked …shocked

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taralino Tin 6 days ago

I know we’re still actively mining?

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NoReputation61 Platinum | 2 months old | QC: CC 173 6 days ago

As of July, 35.4% of bitcoin’s hashrate – an industry term used to describe the collective computing power of miners – is in the United States, according to the Cambridge Centre for Alternative Finance. That’s a 428% increase from September 2020.

Americans mining the sh*t out of it.

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YoDaChronMan Tin | 1 month old 6 days ago

Is this because of the recent crackdowns on cryptocurrencies in china?

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the_far_yard Stack a Sat, Stash a Gwei, Bull or Bear, D-C-A. 6 days ago

It's honestly because of the recent crackdowns in China not just on cryptocurrency, but also on their tech industry.

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lagav16 Platinum | QC: CC 210 6 days ago

China isn’t somewhere anyone wants their tech dollars parked right now

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the_far_yard Stack a Sat, Stash a Gwei, Bull or Bear, D-C-A. 6 days ago

It started with Jack Ma's Ant Group, then it went down hill- fast.

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deadsho7 Platinum | QC: CC 738 6 days ago

They banned mining in China

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Raaaaafi Platinum | QC: CC 487, BTC 25 6 days ago

People underestimate how big of a deal this is. China was basically #1 for miners. People choosing the US is incredibly bullish.

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taralino Tin 6 days ago

Well, but they’d follow suit.. US included

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Eislemike Platinum | QC: ETH 36, CC 195, BTC 395 | r/Investi 2 days ago

I wonder how many people are going to have to freeze to death before shitcoiners stop thinking we need to stop producing all dirty energy. I hope we don’t find out this winter during the energy shortage.

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DryCarpet4589 Tin 2 days ago

Ok

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No_Translator_9984 Redditor for 5 months. 2 days ago

thats because people like bad news over good news, and thats why media only talks about problems rather than solution, its paradox

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Thirstquencherr Tin | NANO 7 2 days ago

The article talks about clean energy getting so much cheaper it will be less costly than traditional energy sources. I am quite sure it allready is.

I find it interesting that when talking about the total cost of energy (or anything really) it is translated to to price the producer pays. Usually there are way more costs that are not paid by the producer. Such as costs for the loss off fresh air/ happiness/clean water/ ect. Hope this will change in the future.

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stuloch Platinum | QC: CC 307 2 days ago

The flared gas thing partially incentivises the continued use of the mining that creates the gas in the first place. It's great that they're using a resource that would be spent either way however in the medium term that makes it more financial viable and therfore continues to incentivise the drilling.

I understand the counterargument, and it makes sense but this needs to be a short term solution rather than the new normal

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Eislemike Platinum | QC: ETH 36, BTC 395, CC 195 | r/Investi 2 days ago

Humans have never retired the last source of energy they used. They’ve always needed both new and old. The consequences of not having enough energy is the human death toll we are likely to see this winter. The choice, we will soon find out, will likely be either massive human life loss and suffering or a hotter planet. I find it worrisome so many people pick human death.

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stuloch Platinum | QC: CC 307 2 days ago

The flared gas thing partially incentivises the continued use of the mining that creates the gas in the first place. It's great that they're using a resource that would be spent either way however in the medium term that makes it more financial viable and therfore continues to incentivise the drilling.

I understand the counterargument, and it makes sense but this needs to be a short term solution rather than the new normal

1

Eislemike Platinum | QC: ETH 36, BTC 395, CC 195 | r/Investi 2 days ago

Humans have never retired the last source of energy they used. They’ve always needed both new and old. The consequences of not having enough energy is the human death toll we are likely to see this winter. The choice, we will soon find out, will likely be either massive human life loss and suffering or a hotter planet. I find it worrisome so many people pick human death.

1

stuloch Platinum | QC: CC 307 2 days ago

The flared gas thing partially incentivises the continued use of the mining that creates the gas in the first place. It's great that they're using a resource that would be spent either way however in the medium term that makes it more financial viable and therfore continues to incentivise the drilling.

I understand the counterargument, and it makes sense but this needs to be a short term solution rather than the new normal

1

Eislemike Platinum | QC: ETH 36, BTC 395, CC 195 | r/Investi 2 days ago

Humans have never retired the last source of energy they used. They’ve always needed both new and old. The consequences of not having enough energy is the human death toll we are likely to see this winter. The choice, we will soon find out, will likely be either massive human life loss and suffering or a hotter planet. I find it worrisome so many people pick human death.

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CBScott7 Platinum | QC: CC 362 | r/JusticeServed 14 2 days ago

Yeah, because it's irrelevant and nobody who starts a mining operation reports it to the press or reddit unless they're looking for publicity.

Ooh, I bought 5 ASICS from bitmain, let me call CNN and make a big fucking deal about it. - No one ever

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BigLongFootDoctor Platinum | QC: CC 678 2 days ago

This sub is talking about it like thirty times a day with how many times these articles are shared lol

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randomnegativity 2 days ago

Moons baby moons

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randomnegativity 2 days ago

Moons baby moons

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randomnegativity 2 days ago

Moons baby moons

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ieatmoondust Pssssst... Hey! Got MOONS? 2 days ago

It was no coincidence or accident that Musk made a call-out on BTC's energy consumption. Tesla wants to sell clean energy and crypto mining is the perfect excuse to push it.

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Lewis_0683 Platinum | QC: BTC 35, CC 213 2 days ago

The guy might need to keep a lid on his mouth but he certainly isn't stupid

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behind25proxies Silver | QC: CC 186 | NANO 674 2 days ago

Coping

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behind25proxies Silver | QC: CC 186 | NANO 674 2 days ago

Coping

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gimmeurdollar Gold | QC: CC 129 | r/WallStreetBets 14 6 days ago

They need to enforce "WARNING" on the front page of these protocols - could be difficults for anons. UniDexBot for example has a warning before you can connect your wallet. CFD trading platforms are required by law to issue warning. I was an affiliate and was required to issue same warning. Something like that - but we should be allowed to buy our fave coins.

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riddled_with_errors Tin 1 week ago

This is good for Bitcoin.^(TM)

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IBeefSupremeI Platinum | 6 months old | QC: CC 327 | MiningSubs 1 week ago

Hester sounds like a bro

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Cappy2020 CRYPTO STATS GUY 1 week ago

They’ve said this time and time again but still go on to over regulate the market and nanny-coddle investors.

We’ll see if this time is any different.

^It ^likely ^won’t ^be.

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EpicHasAIDS Platinum | QC: CC 552 6 days ago

Have they? This seems like a fairly unique take.

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Cappy2020 CRYPTO STATS GUY 6 days ago

They couldn’t even approve a crypto ETF recently (something that even Canada has done) and instead had to relegate that to an ETF which can only invest in crypto companies Lol.

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EpicHasAIDS Platinum | QC: CC 552 6 days ago

I'm just asking you to point me where they've "said this time and time again". This woman has a fairly fresh take IMO.

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WorkerBee-3 Cosmonaut 1 week ago

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Our decisions must not effect others who have these same rights. This is the constitution and American freedom

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10yrOldWivesAreHalal 1 week ago

'Amrikiun kafir regulators have no power over me. Only Allah can regulate me!

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coinfeeds-bot Approved CC Bot 1 week ago

tldr; Hester Peirce, a commissioner at the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), said, "Investor protection means enforcing antifraud and disclosure rules, but it also means protecting an investor's right to make investment decisions for herself, to take risks and to use the latest technology to trade and invest." Investment decisions are best made by an investor or an adviser with a deep understanding of the investor's circumstances and financial needs, she added.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

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Jeepers__Reapers 1 week ago

The pure free market requires perfect information by all those who partake in the market. Some of what the SEC does is either toothless, overbearing or both, but they do play an important role in enforcing access to perfect information.

I have no issue with the article though - Hester Pierce seems to recognize this vital role.

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immibis 1 week ago

Investor's liberty is everyone else's authority

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QuarterDoge a grain of salt 1 week ago

SEC is a toothless hall monitor. The only regulation you will get tripped up with them is the blatantly obvious scams and criminal enterprises. The most blatant to the extreme.

The company in jersey they delisted recently, billion+ valuation. Entire corporation consisted of 1 pastrami sandwich store. Worth billion+. The Public does not need to be investing in a Mafia money laundering scheme.

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Snoo47858 1 week ago

This is beyond fucking stupid. I know for a fact financial services spend a ton (in money and other costs) ensuring they keep with the regulatory enviorment

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QuarterDoge a grain of salt 1 week ago

Lehman spent insanely as well to stay compliant Slap on the wrist punishments is just the cost of doing business. You’re penalizing me $10? For making $20? DEAL!!!

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beholdapalhorse7 1 week ago

Chinese investors from "Macua" . Its a shell company they used as a tool to become a publicly traded company . Its pretty sick that this is going on right under the noses of the SEC and is a huge indictment of the current state of affairs.

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QuarterDoge a grain of salt 1 week ago

China is a Socialist country, private ownership of any “Stock” is a crime. 100% of all their “Receipts” (not Stocks, Stocks are for bonafide card carrying Political Party members only) are Cayman Shell companies. Alibaba, Nio, all of them. You would be insane (or ignorant) to invest any money you are not expecting to 100% lose into anything “China”

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knighttimeblues 1 week ago

I am struggling to see the point in this article. It seems like one long string of platitudes. Fraud is bad; choice is good. Ok. Who can disagree? But where is the substance? The closest it strays to substance is a vague statement that regulators should not put up so many roadblocks to investments involving crypto currencies, but even that is not fleshed out in any meaningful way. Is there an ongoing debate this article plays into that I am just missing?

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aredd05 1 week ago

Last Tuesday the SEC enacted a rule not allowing retail traders to trade in “Expert” OTC markets. Lots of us lost lots of money because we can no longer buy certain stocks and/or average down on stocks we currently own. I personally lost $27K because of it. There has been lots of blowback over the decision.

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knighttimeblues 1 week ago

Well, that is helpful context. Thank you. But if that is what prompted this then why didn’t she mention that ruling in her article? I was not aware that SEC Commissioners need to be so circumspect.

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aredd05 1 week ago

I would assume it’s because the overall theme of the article is about the SEC as a whole, not just this particular rule change. While this rule change has led to lots of blowback, is it the SECs responsibility to tell me where and when I can invest my money? There are other rules that limit investment options as well. It should be my decision alone to place my money where I choose too and that is the theme of the article.

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Chrisc46 1 week ago

It's a good take, but I think it could be summed up a bit easier.

"Government should not exist to restrict voluntary transactional interactions. Government should exist as an available mechanism to defend against fraud, coercion, and theft."

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ac_scotty 6 days ago

Slavery could be a voluntary transactional interaction....

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Chrisc46 6 days ago

Slavery is involuntary by definition....

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ac_scotty 6 days ago

You could sign a contract stating that the person can own your labor forever for a one time fee that he pays to your father. How isn't that slavery and how isn't that voluntary

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Chrisc46 6 days ago

Voluntary slavery is a contradiction. It cannot exist. Here's Murray Rothbard on the topic: >The distinction between a man's alienable labor service and his inalienable will may be further explained: a man can alienate his labor service, but he cannot sell the capitalized future value of that service. In short, he cannot, in nature, sell himself into slavery and have this sale enforced — for this would mean that his future will over his own person was being surrendered in advance. In short, a man can naturally expend his labor currently for someone else's benefit, but he cannot transfer himself, even if he wished, into another man's permanent capital good. For he cannot rid himself of his own will, which may change in future years and repudiate the current arrangement. The concept of "voluntary slavery" is indeed a contradictory one, for so long as a laborer remains totally subservient to his master's will voluntarily, he is not yet a slave since his submission is voluntary; whereas, if he later changed his mind and the master enforced his slavery by violence, the slavery would not then be voluntary. But more of coercion later on.

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ac_scotty 6 days ago

Why can't he sell the capitalized future value of that service why are you trying to regulate the free market. This is authoritarian rule / s

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stupendousman 1 week ago

> Government should exist as an available mechanism to defend against fraud, coercion, and theft." Private arbitration services should exist as a group of options to address fraud, coercion, and theft.

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Chrisc46 1 week ago

Agreed. And they do. Until they can absorb more of the market, an available Government option should also exist for those that cannot and will not be afforded the private services.

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stupendousman 1 week ago

> Until they can absorb more of the market I've attempted to use state civil courts for arbitration. It's essentially worthless for business unless you've got very deep pockets. Removing the state monopoly would not be pushing a button, it would be a process like voice and exit via technological innovation. The adoption of competitors would itself remove the state. >Government option should also exist for those that cannot and will not be afforded the private services. I disagree, no one should be forced to pay for a stranger's service provider.

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Chrisc46 1 week ago

>no one should be forced to pay for a stranger's service provider. I agree. A government option does not necessitate forced public funding. Funding, in this case, could be the liability of the losing party. Ideally, markets would create available arbitration for the little guy. I'm not sure that's anything less than a utopian dream, though.

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stupendousman 1 week ago

> Ideally, markets would create available arbitration for the little guy. I'm not sure that's anything less than a utopian dream, though. Arbitration need not be expensive.

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Chrisc46 1 week ago

Agreed. "Expensive" is situational, though.

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alphabet_order_bot 1 week ago

Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 295,952,400 comments, and only 66,651 of them were in alphabetical order.

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Chrisc46 1 week ago

Any boy could develop elaborately formed grammar. However, I just know, lessened meaning now obviously probable, quality really suffers through unsatisfactory vocabulary with xeric youthful zeal.

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BeerWeasel 1 week ago

How would private arbitration be enforced if one party doesn't like the result? Does that not rely on government?

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stupendousman 1 week ago

> How would private arbitration be enforced if one party doesn't like the result? Well there are service providers that will hold resources for dispersal upon arbitrators ruling. This can be outline in contracts before any issue, part of an insurance plan, it can be done after an issue (possible both parties won't agree), etc. Also a person who refuses arbitration would not be in a good position for future contractual relationships. Insurance companies wouldn't cover them, many businesses might not do business with them, etc. There are innumerable ways to peacefully increase compliance. Government doesn't resolve most thefts or frauds. The state putting someone in prison certainly doesn't. There's very little logic or efficacy found in state courts.

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BeerWeasel 1 week ago

Thanks for the response. That sounds good theory, but I can't but help and think of all the companies and individuals who continually keep screwing others and getting away with it. If "Insurance companies wouldn't cover them, many businesses might not do business with them, etc." were true I don't think we'd have guys like Trump (as a business man) or almost any petro-chemical company (I've worked oilfield) getting away with screwing over stakeholders like they have. I'm sure I can phrase that better, but my grasp of English is failing me at this time of night.

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stupendousman 1 week ago

> I don't think we'd have guys like Trump (as a business man) I'm sure Trump would have still been successful, he'd adapt his methods according to his cost/benefit analysis. It's not theory, ex: [The Not So Wild, Wild West](https://mises.org/library/not-so-wild-wild-west) "The purpose of this paper is to take us from the theoretical world of anarchy to a case study of its application." "We propose to examine property-rights formulation and protection under voluntary organizations such as private protection agencies, vigilantes, wagon trains, and early mining camps. Although the early West was not completely anarchistic, we believe that government as a legitimate agency of coercion was absent for a long enough period to provide insights into the operation and viability of property rights in the absence of a formal state. "

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PX_Oblivion 1 week ago

How do you prevent those things without regulation? For example, a ponzi scheme. Theoretically everyone could see a payout, they just probably wont.

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Chrisc46 1 week ago

Fraud is a crime. No additional regulation needed.

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PX_Oblivion 1 week ago

What makes a ponzi scheme fraud?

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RagnarDannes34 Statism is mental disorder 1 week ago

>What makes a ponzi scheme fraud? google ponzi scheme. It's pretty evident that it's fraud if you understand what it is. How fucking old are you?

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PX_Oblivion 1 week ago

The point of this line of questions is that there are regulations that outlaw a ponzi scheme, even if the scheme technically pays out, or does not itself result in a loss for the investors. So without those regulations, ponzi schemes would be totally legal, until the person running it couldn't keep it up anymore.

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RagnarDannes34 Statism is mental disorder 1 week ago

>So without those regulations, ponzi schemes would be totally legal No.

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PX_Oblivion 1 week ago

How so? What specifically would make them fraud up until the point where you don't get your money?

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RagnarDannes34 Statism is mental disorder 1 week ago

>What specifically would make them fraud up Again, google it. It's entirely based on fraud, lies and deception. There's no "investing" whatsoever. I feel like this is obvious and you're just being obstinate...or just plain stupid.

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PX_Oblivion 1 week ago

So as long as I don't tell a potential investor the specifics, just tell them they will get a return on their investment, and then give them that return, what makes it fraud? The core of a ponzi scheme (giving peoples money to different people to show an earning that doesn't exist) isn't technically fraud. As long as you don't tell people that it's coming from a legit business, and everyone is getting their expected returns, I don't see how it would qualify.

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Chrisc46 1 week ago

People are led to believe that their returns on investment are coming from real business activity and not simply from the investment capital of others.

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PX_Oblivion 1 week ago

So as long as you didn't specifically say where the return came from, just implied it. And everyone investing got their returns, it's not a problem?

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Chrisc46 1 week ago

Lying by omission constitutes fraud. Like implying that a food is safe when it actually causes illness. This untrue implication is fraud.

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PX_Oblivion 1 week ago

Wouldn't it be up to the individual investors to ask the correct questions? If I just say that you'll get a 20% return over the course of 2 years, and show you others who have, that's not fraud right?

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Chrisc46 1 week ago

"You will receive 20%" or "you might receive 20%"? It would not be fraud if the details were disclosed. If it's heavily implied to be something other than it actually is, it's fraud.

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PX_Oblivion 1 week ago

You will receive a 20% return. And you do. Actually all investors up until now have received the return within the time frame.

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