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JoshuaACNewman 0 h ago

By all means, bug your house to make it easier for Amazon to sell you.

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44ster 1 h ago

Capitalism is building our cells on death row around us, brick by drone-delivered brick.

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izumi3682 3 hs ago

Pretty soon i bet they have these things at work too--won't that be lovely? I'm glad I'm almost retired--2 more years! Have fun with the "work ARA" guys. ARA is AI, robotics and automation.

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LeiLaniGranny 2 hs ago

Scary thought

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T0xAvenja 3 hs ago

This actually CREATES privacy: instead of installing cameras, one could install this. Total privacy when you have this INSTEAD of a house full of always working cams.

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slumericansoldier 4 hs ago

This is rad.

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resnet152 2 hs ago

Agreed. I suspect that it's probably a "v1.0" of something that may not work nearly as well as it will in a few years, but it feels like some seriously futuristic shit and I'm glad that companies are innovating like this.

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imakesawdust 4 hs ago

My cat: oooh, a new toy!

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xspectre 4 hs ago

How does one use this with Ring Alarm when the system is armed?

Assuming you want to look around the house and the alarm has not been tripped, this drone will set off the alarm motion sensors!

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T0xAvenja 4 hs ago

One could modify the zone of a detector, physically or virtually. Or, the sensitivity could be modified, that small cam is very different from that 250lb dude.

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xspectre 3 hs ago

Without disabling the motion sensor completely, there’s not really a reliable way to bypass the motion sensor. You could adjust the sensitivity, but if you fly the drone very close to the sensor, it still might trigger. It just seems like this solution wasn’t very well thought out.

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Longjumping-Key-3063 4 hs ago

is this stand alone or do i have to buy an entire ring system?

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mrvandelay 4 hs ago

There's no way this is not eaten by my dog within 6 minutes of purchase.

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Cutanea 4 hs ago

Sure...

It takes forever/is super unreliable for me to connect to my front doorbell on wifi when I'm in the same house but I will be able to access live crystal clear video from a drone while I'm on my cell phone?

Not sure I'm a believer 😔

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crazytr 5 hs ago

I see this hitting a wall and breaking appart and starting a fire.

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dudenell 5 hs ago

Starting a fire seems a bit much lol

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crazytr 5 hs ago

It's possible dropping a battery from a decent height.

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MrBr1an1204 1 h ago

*drops battery* "HONEY, CALL 911!"

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tutukittyfuck 5 hs ago

That's what they spend their time on. Not improving video quality. SMH

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MrBr1an1204 1 h ago

Or adding a glass break to the alarm.

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SteelDirigible98 5 hs ago

*ring drone wants to know your location*

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porkchop_d_clown 5 hs ago

Sure, why not. Why not buy a drone to allow Amazon to surveil the corners of my home it can’t currently see. It’s 2020, after all..

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The-Deviant-One 5 hs ago

Half the pets with think it's something to be killed. The rest will think it's something trying to kill them lol.

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thinkwalker 6 hs ago

Looks cool but this thing would last ~8 minutes before my dog leaps off a couch and devours it.

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User0x00G 6 hs ago

Pretty good, but for outdoor use I'm still a fan of the TF-19 WASP Flame throwing Drone.

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Down_To_My_Last_Fuck 5 hs ago

I got you bro. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBBC-xL\_MTg&ab\_channel=CNN](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBBC-xL_MTg&ab_channel=CNN)

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User0x00G 4 hs ago

That is officially badass. Where can I order a few hundred? LOL

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BidenMobile 4 hs ago

You are a fucking idiot

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User0x00G 2 hs ago

I'm not the one who is silly enough to cross-sub harass someone and put it in writing for the Reddit Admins to find. Lets see whether you will erase this comment or wait and sacrifice your account :)

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leviwhite9 3 hs ago

And you're a week wanna be Russian troll or something? Sad life buddy. Do something important for once.

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rjb4000 6 hs ago

https://i.imgur.com/D9bNDmZ.jpg

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Coronator 6 hs ago

Take. My. MONEY!!!

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LPCLe 7 hs ago

This thing is going to be $600

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09SHO 5 hs ago

r/DidntReadTheArticle

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mtechgroup 6 hs ago

Says $249.

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LPCLe 6 hs ago

That's actually not bad 👀👀

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Novajesus 7 hs ago

I give it less than a day after the first unit is sold before this gets used for nature films over at Pronhub.

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Novajesus 8 hs ago

Amazing. And for them to be the first with this type of thing. Bravo. This is going to spin-off other cool shit. Can't wait for the exterior stuff. Can you imagine.

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desertSunrise 8 hs ago

Did they make any updates to the spotlight cam?

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Aves44 8 hs ago

I hope it's more responsive than the live feed or we're going to have a lot of reports of indoor drone accidents

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TJrick 9 hs ago

Where's my electric flyswatter

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super_retard 9 hs ago

They announced Abode as a partner with including Amazon’s new Guard Plus services free with paid monitoring

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acruns - @acruns 10 hs ago

Remember Ring's partnership with 1300 local police departments?

https://www.wired.com/story/ces-2020-amazon-defends-ring-pol...

Remember Ring's Android app being full of 3rd party trackers?

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/01/ring-doorbell-app-pack...

Remember Ring's implementation of E2EE?

Neither do I.

While I don't really care from the perspective of 'I don't do anything illegal', I don't own any ring / Alexa / Nest / Home automation. Mostly because I don't like the trend towards optimal laziness personally, and it doesn't provide much in the way of value. The video shows this, the guys house is already broken into, is a drone going to stop a burglar from taking your laptop off that kitchen table? I have a better deterent, a dog which is much more effective according to felons (https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/crime/we-asked-86-burglars...)

This is just too creepy to me.

edit:formatting

vmurthy - @vmurthy 3 hs ago

While I can understand why companies need something more than hardware(* see below ) to have better margins, I really hate the trend towards companies gathering more and more data about me to essentially show me ads - so this is a no go for me personally. If the software is hackable and the device customised so that I don't have to associate with my Amazon/Google accounts, this gets really interesting.

Electronic components tend to become commodities which means there's usually a race to the bottom for prices of finished goods - so hardware companies hope to hold on to the data so that a) you don't switch b) they get more revenue out of you by selling your data or selling you ads. In this case though, Amazon might be selling below cost so that they can suck you deeper into the eco-system :) . Interesting times indeed!

rkagerer - @rkagerer Yesterday

Initial reaction to headline: Do not want a police state in my home.

After reading the article: Huh, that could be pretty handy.

It's intended for use when you're away (eg. did I leave the stove on?), the docking station blocks the camera, and it's noisy enough that people would hear it coming.

Of course I'd be a lot more comfortable if the video (and mapping) didn't go through these two companies. If their employee came to your door with a videocamera and said "hi, I want to film intimate interiors of your home" I'm pretty sure you'd tell them to creep off.

llarsson - @llarsson 11 hs ago

"Ring says the drone makes an audible noise when flying so it is obvious when footage is being recorded."

Oh, I bet it does.

Drone technology seemed much cooler to me before I heard them fly. No wonder drone videos always have sound replaced by music.

Great way to tell burglars you are away!

FandangoRanger - @FandangoRanger 9 hs ago

Can’t wait until Amazon and Google and Twitter drones regularly patrol the neighborhood.

NikolaeVarius - @NikolaeVarius Yesterday

I want one just to try and hack it and make it do cool things. Also remove any connection back to its overlords

zucked - @zucked Yesterday

And give Amazon a method to map the interior of my house? Yeah, no. Heck no.

Ecstatify - @Ecstatify Yesterday

Idea is pretty cool, in reality I’m not sure how useful it would be. My house doesn’t get burgled that often to be honest.

AaronNewcomer - @AaronNewcomer Yesterday

I had never really considered anything by ring but this just looks super cool from a techy POV and would potentially make me look into their ecosystem.

type0 - @type0 11 hs ago

Maybe they could sell it to North Korea if it turns out not being popular in american homes

Show all comments on Hackernews

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Antonis Polemitis - @polemitis

RT @danrobinson: A gripping read, especially for anyone who enjoyed our Dark Forest post. @samczsun discovered an exploit that left him in the same position @gakonst and I had been in—but with 1000x as much at stake. A global team worked together to succeed where we'd failed. https://t.co/syfTDSWsrs

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lawson baker : 88发 babafa - @lwsnbaker

Open Finance is cool af https://t.co/7pZFruY5fE

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Ivan Bogatyy - @bogatyy

RT @samczsun: How do you rescue 10 million dollars from a vulnerable smart contract without letting attackers know it’s there? Last Tuesday, @epheph, @sparkpool_eth, @tzhen, @wadealexc, and I found out. https://t.co/WOjO651VIw

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Nick Tomaino - @NTmoney

RT @roxdanila: Breathtaking read! 🙈 You really don't want to be on the receiving end of a message from @samczsun 😅 https://t.co/jz0WCjckSH

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Denis Nazarov - @Iiterature

— Is someone in trouble? — Me and @samczsun are online. — You two are saving the world? The story of recovering a $10M smart contract vulnerability... 🤯 https://t.co/NUUr4Av9ZS

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Noah Ruderman ⚡ - @devilscompiler

Summary: private transaction services mitigate the dark forest problem. https://t.co/P9ZuHRPD8x

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Wong Joon Ian - @joonian

RT @samczsun: How do you rescue 10 million dollars from a vulnerable smart contract without letting attackers know it’s there? Last Tuesday, @epheph, @sparkpool_eth, @tzhen, @wadealexc, and I found out. https://t.co/WOjO651VIw

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Michael Casey - @mikejcasey

RT @samczsun: How do you rescue 10 million dollars from a vulnerable smart contract without letting attackers know it’s there? Last Tuesday, @epheph, @sparkpool_eth, @tzhen, @wadealexc, and I found out. https://t.co/WOjO651VIw

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zooko - @zooko

What an amazing story!! ❤ https://t.co/E0fFrzT3bs

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Reuben Bramanathan - @bramanathan

RT @samczsun: How do you rescue 10 million dollars from a vulnerable smart contract without letting attackers know it’s there? Last Tuesday, @epheph, @sparkpool_eth, @tzhen, @wadealexc, and I found out. https://t.co/WOjO651VIw

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Taylor Monahan - @tayvano_

RT @PhABCD: "I tested SparkPool’s whitehat endpoint with a meaningless transaction, and it worked as expected: the tx was not seen in the mempool, then suddenly appeared as part of a SparkPool block! It was like watching water vapor turn directly into ice without that pesky liquid phase." https://t.co/gnIenHM7m1

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alex van de sande (4 character handle ? me : bot) - @avsa

The post reads like a heist movie, including the long “getting the gang together” part, beautifully written from multiple perspectives. And yes, this is the a message you don’t want to be in the receiving end of.. https://t.co/48En6dKevq https://t.co/asp194djMj

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Tony Sheng - @tonysheng

RT @samczsun: How do you rescue 10 million dollars from a vulnerable smart contract without letting attackers know it’s there? Last Tuesday, @epheph, @sparkpool_eth, @tzhen, @wadealexc, and I found out. https://t.co/WOjO651VIw

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troyboltonislife 4 hs ago

This is really amazing and I respect the people who did this to the highest level. But I am just so shocked after all those agents they interacted with no one just said fuck it and cashed in 10 million. Absolutely amazing and very noble. Glad we have people like this in the space

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Smiguelito 5 hs ago

Thrilling

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raymonddurk 7 hs ago

I never thought about white hat hackers being responsible for taxable income from an event like this. This is probably the greatest example of technology staying ahead of the law.

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btc_clueless 8 hs ago

This is a good read. I have been in this space for what feels like "forever" (2013) but my grasp of certain technical aspects is still rather limited. This was kind of eye opening as for whats happening in the mempool. My questions is: Is this how it was intended? Is this "good for Ethereum"?

As a very general note, I have the feeling that blockchain in general and its value proposition in particular are already very hard to grasp for the general public. But smart contract platforms (not just Ethereum) take it to another level. I have been doing some programming in the past but none of this sort and most of this stuff is way over my head. Clearly this is all in an early stage and the buggy, badly audited smart contracts get weed out quickly (sometimes meaning lots of people lose money), but where is this going in the future, if hardly anyone (any non-programmer) can understand the whole process? Personally, I find DeFi an exciting new application but I am not ready to dump any money into any of those token, no matter what kind of profit other people are making with this. I am more of a conservative crypto guy I suppose, as per Warren: don't invest what you don't understand. I do understand Bitcoin, Ethereum and Doge and I am invested in 2 of those 3.

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gallak87 4 hs ago

I'm not a contract developer nor an expert by any means, but from reading this article and the first dark forest article, I took away that the mempool is no different than any mature market, there are ways to get ahead that end up creating changes. In law enforced markets like stocks, it's a law (or a law lobbied for), in the case of the mempool, it seems like a forcing function for correctness. In the first forest article it was a mistake exploited for bad, in this one it was for good. I can't handle DeFi, it's not for me, but I see it as a stepping stone to maturity. Those fees tho, they definitely are worse for eth than the competition / natural selection going on with the mempool.

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point_breeze69 5 hs ago

That’s smart not to invest in what you don’t understand. That doesn’t mean it won’t see mass adoption. How many people can explain how insurance works or how credit card companies work? Once something is saturated enough in our society and it brings real utility it will gain mass adoption.

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-Aerobrake- 5 hs ago

Blockchain currencies are easily an order of magnitude more complicated than insurance or credit cards.

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ninja_batman 3 hs ago

Have you ever worked at an insurance or credit card company?

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Hizonner 9 hs ago

The fact that they have to do this sort of thing kind of makes you wonder about the point of all this "smart contract" business, no?

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epic_trader 8 hs ago

The fact that some people contract a virus from going on dodgy websites doesn't make you wonder about the whole "internet" business, does it?

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alicenekocat Developer 9 hs ago

It's funny to see how they managed to organize miners to mine the white hat intervention without letting front-runners know.

It'd be more complex to pull that out in PoS.

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1

qznc_bot2 11 hs ago

There is a discussion on Hacker News, but feel free to comment here as well.

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pavlov - @pavlov 11 hs ago

Nice work, but honestly I'm not sure why they bother.

The article states that the purpose of these smart contracts is:

"Stake your tokens with us and you could be the next cryptocurrency millionaire"

That's an obvious scam. Anyone who gave real money to such a cause has already lost it. So why is the author giving away his time to help the scammers?

formerly_proven - @formerly_proven Yesterday

This read like a piece by William Gibson in the Neuromancer universe. I finally understand now why people are attracted by cryptocurrencies.

snake_plissken - @snake_plissken 11 hs ago

I still don't understand what's happening at the core of this and the other dark forest post from a few weeks ago. How exactly are these bots front-running/stealing the ethereums?

My understanding:

   -these bots scan the smart contracts that are waiting to be executed by the miners
   -the bots find vulnerabilities (another grey area in my mind) in the contract
   -the bots adjust the destination address of where the contract is supposed to send the the ethereums
   -then the bots continually execute the vulnerable smart contract code

clay-dreidels - @clay-dreidels 3 hs ago

All this research into smart contracts and crytpocurrency may seem pointless and a waste of time. It is very risky to dabble in, and I don't think assigning value to these "bitcoins," or whatever they may be called, will be the lasting effect of all this research. Perhaps some new programming language, or something we haven't even thought of, could be the result of these people working on the outer edges of current knowledge.

ladberg - @ladberg Yesterday

I love that they're continuing the Dark Forest analogy! Makes me also realize I never want to dip my toe in crypto like that. It's like an amateur going up to an entirely unregulated wall street and expecting to earn some quick cash.

askmike - @askmike 3 hs ago

I quickly want to point out that we've recently seen a surge in uniswap/bancor based "liquidity pools" (all projects copying each other). The main idea here is that you can lock up your crypto in a smart contract - which is considered "secure" as to no one can steal it (audited code by reputable companies and such). If true the risk is very small with things like impermanent loss, which doesn't apply to all pools.

The idea here is that your money is provided liquidity and you'll get paid a portion of the fees as well as some new token which can have a very high value (for a fleeting moment).

This is important to realize when looking at the crazy marketing around these projects, if it's based on uniswap you can reasonably sure your principal won't get stolen - regardless of the scammy and weird marketing.

superkuh - @superkuh 10 hs ago

I guess the take away here is that if you have the right connections then you can bypass the system.

huac - @huac 11 hs ago

interesting read - seems like the solution to the dark forest is equivalent to a dark pool in traditional finance?

the logical conclusion is that within a few months we'll have dark pools run by miners who will process your transactions without broadcasting to mempool, in exchange for an increased gas fee. and, within a year, we'll find out that some dark pools sold order flow to those HFT's anyways, a la UBS https://sites.law.berkeley.edu/thenetwork/2015/01/29/ubs-dar...

gabereiser - @gabereiser Yesterday

When's the movie script due? This was an amazing read mainly for the multiple perspectives and story. Great job!

currymj - @currymj Yesterday

i tried writing some toy Ethereum smart contracts circa 2016. at that time it was immensely difficult to write them in a secure way -- even a simple "hello world" level Solidity contract could easily have exploitable bugs if you don't code in an extremely defensive style.

i'm told things have improved since then -- can anyone who's used Solidity more recently comment on this? is it true?

this, plus the fact that putting information from the real world onto the blockchain unavoidably requires some trust, seemed like the two big problems then, and it seems like they haven't really been fixed.

squeezingswirls - @squeezingswirls Yesterday

Addendum https://zengo.com/generalized-front-running-ethereum-arbitra...

iameli - @iameli 11 hs ago

Love whitehat crypto postmortems like this. They always read like heist movies.

Curious about the use of SparkPool to bypass the mempool and get the transactions minted directly into a block. It looks like anyone can sign up and contribute their hashrate to SparkPool. Is there a risk of malicious miners running workers in their competitors' pools and then frontrunning?

ve55 - @ve55 10 hs ago

Very interesting story, it really does sound like a scifi thriller to me.

It also makes me wonder what type of legal battle would ensue if a blackhat were to have taken all of these funds instead, I'm not sure I've seen any public high-profile cases like that yet.

kevinpet - @kevinpet Yesterday

Makes me think of salvage operations, and then raises the question of how do people get paid? They're providing a valuable service. I think in shipping there are both conventions and an ability to quickly negotiate that allows contracting for a salvage ship to rush to the aid of a grounded or sinking container vessel.

NKosmatos - @NKosmatos 9 hs ago

Nice read! That’s why I respect whitehat hackers, to be tempted by ~10million and then proceed doing the right thing. I wonder if they got a reward/bounty for managing to save all this ETH.

wins32767 - @wins32767 10 hs ago

One of my good friends has a saying, "Humans are really good at optimizing the hell out of the wrong thing." I can't help but think that when reading about any sort of heroics involving blockchain.

vvpan - @vvpan 9 hs ago

If anybody would like more intense blockchain story-telling check out this longish write-up about Justin Sun's takeover of Steem.it from a few weeks back. https://decrypt.co/38050/steem-steemit-tron-justin-sun-crypt...

itronitron - @itronitron Yesterday

seems like a very interesting story however after the third voice change I lost interest and the specialized tech jargon just makes it sound goofy

stackzero - @stackzero 6 hs ago

cryptocurreny != investment scam. It's just another way to transfer and store value.

Interacting with automated contracts is an interesting extension to that system which can make things alot more complex.

The 'dark forest' comes from a kind of man-in-the-middle attack where anyone can see the order book and exploit it, by putting their own slightly better orders in. Hence the need for co-operation with a closed order book (miner) to get the transaction in safely.

johannes1813 - @johannes1813 7 hs ago

I clicked on this really hoping it was related to the Fermi Paradox.

sneak - @sneak 11 hs ago

I offer that anyone who did the work that these researchers did would have also been “rightful owners” of that money.

This is the consequence of programmable money; there’s no getting around it, and, in my opinion, people shouldn’t want to. Rescuing people and brands who don’t put the effort into security from the consequences of their own mistakes isn’t a net benefit.

I'm all for anonymous teams, but look at the hoops this person had to jump through just to get in touch with them to report the bug.

When you're anonymous, all you have is your brand, and theirs should have burned to the ground for this entirely preventable error.

Analemma_ - @Analemma_ Yesterday

This is all very interesting to read about, but in the same way epic battles in Eve Online are interesting to read about but not participate in. I hope the author doesn't think this article is functioning as an enticement to use ETH myself, because it's only confirming for me that I never, ever want any of my money near that shambling wreck.

centimeter - @centimeter 11 hs ago

It seems to me that basically no cryptocurrency outside of Bitcoin has its shit together.

Show all comments on Hackernews

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GreystarTheWizard 1 day ago

What would this mean for cardano and others? Is there a need for them if eth2 is a success?

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pas32 2 days ago

Everyone can't wait for this update to happen.

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Ashtehstampede 2 days ago

Last chance to buy Eth below 1k

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Snckbrt_ 2 days ago

Atleast not until eip 1559

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RommelTJ 2 days ago

Why? The amount of locked ETH is going to barely increase and I feel like this might already be priced in. Coupled with US elections pessimism, I want to understand why you think ETH will skyrocket to $1k.

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maxstandard 2 days ago

Please help me understand when you say "the amount locked ETH will barely increase." What are you comparing this to currently? To the best of my knowledge there is not any real ETH locked for staking purposes. The only ETH that locked is testnet ETH which is why the price of real ETH hasn't moved. Once the deposit contract of Phase 0 goes live real ETH will be locked up and will impact the price by being removed from circulation. Additionally, ETH is still being locked in defi contracts. Both of these make a pretty good argument for a greatly increased ETH price in my opinion.

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plaenar ETH maximalist 2 days ago

One scenario is that mostly people who are already holding ETH long term will stake anyways, so those are not really being removed from circulation. Although there is the possibility of some people deciding to acquire ETH to fund validators.

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pegcity 2 days ago

I think it will reduce miner dumping, they will switch to mass staking, this could be a pipe dream though

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iPeculiarly 2 days ago

Slashing will reduce supply, eip 1559 will reduce supply and provide more fair transactions, staking will lock up ether, defi will lock up more. It's got a lot going for it.

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Louisoneth 2 days ago

Slashing won’t have that big an effect, eip 1559 is still a year off, staking might help but defi doesn’t ‘lock up’. The effect may be underwhelming

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raddlepad 2 days ago

So is eth 2.0 might launch this year?

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foyamoon 2 days ago

Sure looks like it

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logiotek 2 days ago

Who cares Q4'20 or Q1'21? Not many. As long as other developments for Phases 1, 1.5, 2.0 keeps moving regardless.

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Antana18 1 day ago

I was about to disagree until reading the second half of your comment. Indeed phase 0 is relatively unimportant compared to the other two phases and the latter ones need to be introduced ASAP. So, I really hope they are already under full steam in getting phase I out quickly after phase 0.

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logiotek 1 day ago

Phase 0 is perceived as unimportant but it's the foundation. It has to be done right and correct.

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Antana18 1 day ago

Agreed!

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TibbersCrypto 2 days ago

So what will happen to the folks with mining rigs?

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spe59436-bcaoo 2 days ago

Either ETC will get more hash or there'll be a new fork. It will cost less for miners than liquidating all mining assets and closing mining businesses. Some miners will refocus to other PoW chains during ETH2 roll out, but probably not much. Difficulty retargets make mining always a theater packed to the edge Even just with DEXes there'll be a lot of volume trading tokens between PoW/PoS versions of Ethereum, a lot of fees for miners, I'd imagine

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DukeVerde 2 days ago

Why fork what was already forked?

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logiotek 2 days ago

Keep on mining until at least Phase 2. And even after that there will be a need for some compute. Bottom line is in blockchain you can stake, provide liquidity to DeFi liquidity pools, sell compute resources, sell bandwidth and storage space, and probably some other stuff nobody thought of yet. Lots of stuff to do to earn.

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ItsAConspiracy 1 day ago

There's no mining after 1.5. Plenty of opportunity to do all the other stuff, just no use for racks of GPUs.

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logiotek 1 day ago

Phase 1.5 just brings current ETH 1.x mainnet onto its own shard chain. All execution is still done on old ETH 1.x EVM. Phase 1.5 will also allow transfers between ETH1 and ETH2 tokens via smart contract on ETH 1.x shard chain. Need Phase 2 (EVM upgrade) to fully transition and move away from mining. And even then there will be transition period of dApp/user migration where you can keep mining.

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ItsAConspiracy 1 day ago

Yes, it's on the EVM, but the consensus algorithm will be Gasper at that point, not proof of work. There's no plan to somehow graft PoW into ETH2.

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logiotek 1 day ago

Like I wrote above, both ETH1 and ETH2 will coexist *at least* until everyone migrates over to ETH2.

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ItsAConspiracy 1 day ago

Only if the miners decide to keep their own PoW fork running. There's currently a demo of ETH1 running inside a Phase 1 shard, with no PoW in sight. That is the plan, and it happens before Phase 2.

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MemeyCurmudgeon Flippant Flippener 2 days ago

Phase 0 mainnet is coming soon (no “™️” necessary)

They're really sure about this one... dare I believe?

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Ayrianne 2 days ago

Well.. what else are you gonna do?

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eth-addict 2 days ago

Short and oh so very sweet. I love it.

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laylaandlunabear 2 days ago

Seems like we are very, very close. Congrats to the devs and community.

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NSErrorWtf 2 days ago

The suggestion that Eth2.0 phase 0 could cause ETH to fail the SEC's Howey test is a new, and somewhat concerning, one to me.

I would love to hear another opinion on this.

https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/pull/2982

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laylaandlunabear 2 days ago

Under the Howey Test, the investor must expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or a third party. Here, investors are doing the "efforts"/work themselves by running the validator nodes on their own computers or hardware.

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ItsAConspiracy 2 days ago

I'm no lawyer but neither is Greg Colvin. Imho staking clearly does not make ETH fail the Howey test. > Any profit comes from the efforts of a promoter or third party. The profit does not come from the efforts of a third party. It comes from your own efforts, running a staking node. You're the one validating transactions and building a sequence of blocks, and you get paid for that. > It is an investment of money. It's not even an investment of money. You get paid for doing work. The money is there so the protocol can slash you if you misbehave. If I were to do some kind of contract work for you, and deposited money somewhere that I would lose if I didn't hold up my end of the deal, that money would not be an investment for me. The IRS treats mining as work, too. You don't pay capital gains on your mining income. You get paid for your work and owe regular income tax. When people start doing taxes on staking gains, I bet their excess ETH will also count as regular income. If anyone has made an investment it's ETH holders who aren't staking, but just hoping for ETH to go up. But the government has already decided that if ETH ever was a security, it's not anymore, because now it's so decentralized it's really a commodity.

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PurpleHamster 2 days ago

There’s already several PoS networks running so I’m not totally sure why the concern is there.

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NSErrorWtf 2 days ago

Are there any PoS networks running that allow staking without withdraw/exchange?

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Henrywotton19 2 days ago

Good job ppl, lookin forward to staking for years now

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alexiskef 2 days ago

Thank you Danny!!

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FUSCN8A 3 days ago

Until yield farming destroys itself (and possibly Ethereum in the processes), this kind of news won't stop.

Even if we solve yield farming GAS issues, something else will replace the demand (remember Crypto Kitties?).

All hands on deck to fix the GAS problem now!

Let's finally get off ETH 1.0 and start staking or figure out a way to force the proceeds earned by these high-volume, high earning smart contracts to start subsidizing GAS.

Ethereum like Bitcoin, has unfortunately failed as a technology for its intended purpose simply due to popularity.

This is the limits of Proof of Work for Ethereum and to be honest, I'm surprised its lasted as long as it did.

I think one of the worst things we allowed as a community was removing the time-bomb functionality which forced hard forks. This created forced discourse and change which is now lacking.

It's not too late to change. We just need to remove some of these 1 MB Greg types out of the decision making process and learn to take risks and be OK with failure.

Acknowledging the elephant in the room - failure is first needed (like this Blog has done!) which is a great sign. Next is strong leadership and swift action instead of words.

I still have hope we can pull this off.

Having participated in and surviving the DAOsaster - that was a time of rapid change and risk taking along with strong leadership. We need to be OK with failure even when there's money on the line.

Let's go!

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HodlDwon 4 days ago

That sucks. Was really excited for something like this to work.

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alicenekocat 4 days ago

It's sad to see more projects shut down due to Ethereum's problems. Hopefully more diverse applications are once again possible in Ethereum. In my view, I wouldn't want it to become a DeFi only blockchain.

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InquisitiveBoba 5 days ago

if its possible to be shut down then it wasn't decentralized to begin with

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alicenekocat 4 days ago

FYI most current DeFi "dapps" are not that decentralized either. Many have admin / root keys and trusted third parties. Uniswap is a notable exception.

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InquisitiveBoba 4 days ago

So is no better then finance 1.0 In fact its worse because you can be anon and do rug pulls on lots of people because you don't have to deal with regulation. Uniswap isnt the exception anymore with the governance token. The FED could just print some USD and then buy 51% of the UNI supply and then vote in anything they want.

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foyamoon 4 days ago

Ugh..

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capitalol 5 days ago

I wonder if this is a canary in the coalmine. Which other projects are now quietly closing shop... or moving elsewhere?

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alicenekocat 4 days ago

NFTs and gaming have been moving away from Ethereum for some time now. Remember MLB and cryptokitties? check where they are developing now.

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capitalol 4 days ago

I just looked up CK and it looks like they are still on ethereum, no?

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alicenekocat 3 days ago

They are building Flow another blockchain where they can migrate to.

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redditsucks_goruqqus 4 days ago

Anything that is not DeFi will struggle according to the [guy that runs the top crypto VC, Olaf Carlsen](https://old.reddit.com/r/polkadot_market/comments/iw5ium/not_sure_why_this_wasnt_posted_before_olaf/). I'm legitimately sad that one of my favorite projects - Etheroll - is down to [7 players and 12 rolls this week](https://old.reddit.com/r/etheroll/comments/irzq9a/myetherolls_weekly_game_summary_week_37_2020/). I used to explain the potential of smart contracts to people back in 2017 using Etheroll as an example. It was such a simple dapp that most people instantly got the value of smart contracts: there's no permissions needed, no trust needed... just read the code and press roll.

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reuptaken 4 days ago

Social Sets (part of Token Sets) are struggling, most suspended trading, mine included. It can cost several hundreds USD to start a Set rebalancing process (change of asset allocation)

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edmundedgar reality.eth 5 days ago

Really sad to see, it was such a great project. But you have to respect teams that give the money back to investors once they realize their initial plan isn't going to pan out rather than doing endless pivots until they've spent it all.

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OnetimeAugurUser 5 days ago

100% this. If you know the project isn't going to work, shut it down, and give back whatever you can.

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Crypto_Economist42 5 days ago

Wrong assumption #1 always seemed like a problem to me from day 1. Suprised you guys even tried to make it work.

All 'freemium' models where multisig wallets are created for free by the service provider on behalf of the user just won't scale in the long run. How can an SP afford even $1 per signup if its trivial to sybil attack that?

Argent will run into this problem also. It's only a matter of time.

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vvpan 5 days ago

Not sure about Unilogin but at the moment Argent requires you to provide your phone number and the account is tied to it. I am no security expert to claim that it prevents Sybil attacks, but so-far it's been working. But yes - being a business subsidizing transactions ain't easy at the moment. Argent better monetize, cause I really like them (they are also #22 on the Eth Gas Station ETH25 Leaderboard, yay).

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trogdortb001 MyCrypto - Jordan 5 days ago

This is a bummer. This is also a FANTASTIC post and outlines many problems, assumptions, and results, and I recommend everyone read this from top to bottom.

Best of luck to Alex and the rest of the UniLogin team in their future endeavors.

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redditsucks_goruqqus 5 days ago

>This is a bummer. Double bummer when you consider that UniLogin is entirely aware of existing and upcoming L2 solutions but found them lacking.

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alicenekocat 4 days ago

Despite on what many think, L2s lack on many fronts. Complexity increases almost exponentially and lack of composability is a real issue that no L2 deals with. That's why the recommendation is always: "Use it if you just wanna move tokens around". Else, build at your own risk. Developer time is precious and finite, you can't just go and explore a production ready app on L2 just because. The switch to ETH 2 also adds an additional dose of uncertainty to the mix.

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epic_trader 4 days ago

Triple bummer when you consider that avsa loudly encouraged everyone else to stop working on login solutions because his team was working on it and made it sound like everyone else would be wasting their time

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redditsucks_goruqqus 4 days ago

I mean maybe he did them a favor though, so minus one bummer?

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