Token Daily

CryptoMods Bronze 12 hs ago

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KX9lol 12 hs ago

Does Bitcoin have decentralized mixing, or are these just centralized services? Bitcoin is a pretty terrible coin to use for privacy reasons.

I know Zcoin protocol implements decentralized mixing and other privacy coins copy the idea. There is also XMR which is becoming the de facto privacy coin.

No clue how the government will even attempt to regulate the real privacy coins.

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KarstaaMauka Yesterday

First? Didn't Ross get 20 years added to his sentence for running a bitcoin mixer?

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SugarAdamAli Yesterday

Can someone explain what a bitcoin mixer is?

1

chipfox 17 hs ago

First you deposit your butts into a dodgy website, even by buttcoin standards, then you receive less butts that can be directly tracked back to a dark net pedo ring. And that's it, clean butts.

2

cactusgenie Yesterday

This is big! Can't wait to see the ripple effects of this rock Bitcoin to it's core!!

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SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor Yesterday

Relevant Hacker News thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24829158

Essential reading on why Monero devs are not conducting money transmission by releasing software: https://www.fincen.gov/sites/default/files/2019-05/FinCEN%20Guidance%20CVC%20FINAL%20508.pdf

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SPAWNBUG Yesterday

What are the implications for Wasabi and samouri?

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lacksfish 3 hs ago

>What are the implications for Wasabi and samouri? gg well played. Honestly though, they should stop while they can, or move to Thailand.

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john_r365 Yesterday

And to zero in on a specific section from the Fincen document, see Section 4.5.1(b) Quote: “An anonymizing software provider is not a money transmitter. FinCEN regulations exempt from the definition of money transmitter those persons providing “the delivery, communication, or network access services used by a money transmitter to support money transmission services.” This is because suppliers of tools (communications, hardware, or software) that may be utilized in money transmission, like anonymizing software, are engaged in trade and not money transmission. By contrast, a person that utilizes the software to anonymize the person’s own transactions will be either a user or a money transmitter, depending on the purpose of each transaction. For example, a user would employ the software when paying for goods or services on its own behalf, while a money transmitter would use it to engage as a business in the acceptance and transmission of value as a transmittor’s or intermediary’s financial institution.”

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jonas_h Author of 'Why cryptocurrencies' Yesterday

Decentralized mixing schemes or on-chain obfuscation aren't included in the money transmitter laws so Monero isn't affected.

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happyscrappy IT Specialist Yesterday

Who could have thought that a service explicitly not designed for money laundering but completely perfect for it because it is designed to hide the origins of funds would end up being against anti-money laundering laws?

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1

qznc_bot2 Yesterday

There is a discussion on Hacker News, but feel free to comment here as well.

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propter_hoc Yesterday

This is a $60 million civil penalty and finding of fact from FinCEN, the money laundering & terrorist financing authority. Harmon appears to still be facing up to 17.5 years of prison on federal criminal charges as well.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2020/02/13/bitcoin-larry-dean-harmon-indicted-cryptocurrency-money-laundering-scheme/4746978002/

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SnapshillBot Yesterday

Ooh lala, good job on bashing Bitcoin. How to disrespect a great innovation.

Snapshots:

First Bitcoin “Mixer” Penalized by ... - archive.org, archive.today*

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PanneKopp 11 hs ago

sorry, I still do not get why I should ty up some funds in LN just to receive a payment - this is completely the opposite of what Bitcoin was meant to be

0

VillaCaruso New Redditor 12 hs ago

LN is bank 3.0, stop shilling this crap pls.

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Danny1878 17 hs ago

Would this work for merchants too who want to accept lightning payments? If channels are just opened up on the fly as required, it should work right? Or is there a limit on the amount of channels etc?

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king-only 17 hs ago

It works in POS mode as well...

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Leithm 18 hs ago

There is nothing wrong with lightning in principle. There is plenty wrong with a 1mb block size cap.

I think there is about 1,000 times as much crypto locked into the defi network if I am not mistaken?

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3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 15 hs ago

> There is nothing wrong with lightning in principle. um what? - Can't send money to someone who's offline like Bitcoin can. That's a regression in features. - Isn't backed by Bitcoin's record hashrate. That's why they're working on 3rd party watchtower services to watch over your money. So you're sacrificing security for low fees. - Has send limits based on your peers send capacity. /u/N0tMyRealAcct just found out the service he's shilling is capped to $450 - Merchants need to continously topoff their side of the channel... just to be able to keep receiving payments. Does that sound how you use money today? If not it's a regression. the list goes on. Lightning is literally a regression to Bitcoin's feature in every way AND you sacrifice onchain security for low fees. What a joke.

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N0tMyRealAcct 15 hs ago

u/leithm, beware of this user. He is intentionally trolling I believe and ruining any productive discussions in here with aggressive statements. Not interested in discussions at all. Only suppressing.

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3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 15 hs ago

no one falls for your lies. Here's /u/N0tMyRealAcct getting caught lying twice in the same claim then dropping the conversation when caught lying: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/jbh8yf/bitcoin_cash_as_the_world_currency_what_it_takes/g9cwkac/ Did anyone in this thread fall for your lies?

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N0tMyRealAcct 15 hs ago

I dropped the discussion because you are nasty and are intentionally trying to misunderstand. Note to others, I’m willing to continue the discussion with you in the thread he linked to. I’m just avoiding this guy from now on.

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3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 15 hs ago

> I dropped the discussion because you are nasty and are intentionally trying to misunderstand. that's a lie: /u/N0tMyRealAcct summary of lies so far: - Bitcoin average blocksize is 1.2MB NOT 2.1MB - Channel factories might save anywhere between 55% - 90% in blocksize, NOT your claimed 96%. And to get a 90% channel savings you'd literally need to open hundreds of LN channels at once, which is NOT what the typical LN user does.

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OverlordQ 20 hs ago

When Bob wants to receive a payment but lacks inbound capacity, his Breez app recognizes the lack and issues two invoices using the same preimage: one to Alice requesting payment and a second to the Breez LSP.

Instead of limiting a single channel to 1M sats, Breez now limits the sum of all a user’s local balances to 4M sats.

So a whole lot of complexity and involving middlemen to only be able to send $450.

And you're trying to sell this as a good thing?

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N0tMyRealAcct 17 hs ago

> So a whole lot of complexity and involving middlemen to only be able to send $450. That is an arbitrary constant. But even if it wasn’t, Lightning allows for a lot of new use cases. There are trade offs but there are many more possibilities. Lightning is intended for you to buy chewing gum. It works well for that.

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3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 15 hs ago

wow $450 send limit. Why would anyone want to use LN when it's not even backed by Bitcoin's record hashrate AND be capped to such joke limits.

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N0tMyRealAcct 15 hs ago

If you want a bigger transaction the wallet can fall back onto an on-chain transaction. No issues here. It is backed by Bitcoins hash rate. As a protocol the Lightning protocol is cryptographically as strong as Bitcoin. Much unlike 0-conf which isn’t backed by hash rate at all. But that is as far as I will let you troll me away from the topic at hand.

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3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 15 hs ago

> If you want a bigger transaction the wallet can fall back onto an on-chain transaction. No issues here. And pay high fees again? why? > As a protocol the Lightning protocol is cryptographically as strong as Bitcoin. Yeah that's why in Bitcoin you don't check in on your money because hashrate secures it, while in Lightning you do check in on your money because no hashrate secures it. Care to tell me why watchtowers are a thing if hashrate secures it? just yesterday /u/N0tMyRealAcct was caught pushing lies and twisting numbers and dropped the conversation after 2 lies: https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/jbh8yf/bitcoin_cash_as_the_world_currency_what_it_takes/g9cwkac/

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N0tMyRealAcct 15 hs ago

Beware all, this user is I believe intentionally trying to poison any productive discussions.

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3andahalfacres Redditor for less than 30 days 15 hs ago

You got caught pushing lies yesterday. You claimed blocks are 2.1MB when they're actually 1.2Mb and claim in the future schnorr and channel factories will produce 96% saving, when it's closer to 50% rofl https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/jbh8yf/bitcoin_cash_as_the_world_currency_what_it_takes/g9cwkac/ your own words /u/N0tMyRealAcct

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alturigo Yesterday

“Inbound liquidity remains an issue, but it is now an issue for engineers and developers to worry about, not users.”

These guys get it.

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Danny1878 Yesterday

Amazing stuff.

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hungdoge Yesterday

How do I download this and play with it? Can't find it

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king-only Yesterday

Android: https://play.google.com/apps/testing/com.breez.client iOS: https://testflight.apple.com/join/wPju2Du7

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bitusher Yesterday

Excellent.

This is what it is like using breez all day long -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOmUpp3J9Ck

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almkglor Yesterday

Zero-reserve makes theft attempts costless. It is fine if Breez server is demanding 0 reserve but the client is allowed to demand non-zero reserve, but if Breez does require the client to demand 0 reserve, it allows Breez to steal funds.

Though as noted in their zero-conf channels, Breez is already in a position to potentially steal funds from users when the user receives via a zero-conf channel that has not deeply confirmed yet. This is fine if e.g. the user is buying Bitcoins using a fiat ramp with Breez directly (the fiat part is always tr*st-requiring anyway), but not so much for general payments. Though as noted as well this is time-bound, once the channel is deeply confirmed it won't matter. Zero-reserve is more concerning, unless Breez allows clients to demand non-zero reserve while demanding zero-reserve itself.

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king-only Yesterday

Breez has 1% channel reserve, the risk is entirely on the Breez end.

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almkglor Yesterday

Okay, thanks for clarifying, the article does not inform this.

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king-only Yesterday

np. You were right to comment. Since we already reduced the channel reserve (only on the client end) to a near-dust value before this update, I didn't see a need to explain it, but maybe I should add it.

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almkglor Yesterday

Yes. To those who stumble on this thread: note that removing the reserve on the client side only makes theft attempts *costless*, but not necessarily *successful*. Breez presumably can afford to run their nodes 24/7 with near 100% uptime and presumably has some kind of watchtower setup, so even if clients could theoretically drain their channel to 0 and then attempt to rewind time to when their channel had more at no risk to themselves, they would still not succeed in practice often enough to hurt Breez. So this is an acceptable policy for Breez to follow, assuming they have good redundancy and so on.

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infernalr00t Yesterday

Right now LN wallets are doing all the boring work so we can move stuff in a few years.

Congrats.

5

3andahalfacres Yesterday

Can I send money to someone who's offline like Bitcoin Cash can?

Am I capped to certain send limits or uncapped like Bitcoin Cash?

Is Lightning backed by Bitcoin's hashrate or must I periodically sign in to prevent theft or eventually hire a 3rd party watchtower service?

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fresheneesz Yesterday

I love Breez. Such an easy app. The main thing I want it to do tho is run an android service that listens for attempted direct payments so I can pay someone directly without requiring them to take out their phone. Then it would truly be a replacement for venmo.

I have a couple questions:

A. What fees does Breez pay to open channels for its users? Like, how is it calculated and what are the average costs it takes on?

B. Why not splice in new balance into the same channel rather than creating new channels? Wouldn't that reduce channel complexity as well as giving more optimal avenues for adding funds to a channel?

1

king-only Yesterday

Thank you! We have the Lightning Rod to implement for offline payments: https://medium.com/breez-technology/introducing-lightning-rod-2e0a40d3e44a Splicing isn't yet implemented. There are advantages to working with multiple channels like not being dependent on a specific peer. We are going to add 3rd party LSPs into Breez, so multi channel is important. Now that we have MPP, it's much less complicated to manage.

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fresheneesz Yesterday

> Lightning Rod I see that article is from a year ago. However I couldn't find any way to pay someone while their app wasn't open in March or April. When was that incorporated into the app? How do I use it? > We are going to add 3rd party LSPs into Breez, so multi channel is important. > not being dependent on a specific peer ... add 3rd party LSPs into Breez Gotcha, very cool!

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king-only Yesterday

We didn't yet implement it... Soon I hope...

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Bitcoin_to_da_Moon Yesterday

after having routed hundreds of thousands of transactions over thousands of channels

that gives a hint at how many transactions are happening in the whole LN space - ALOT! and nothing is recorded, nothing has to touch the mainchain and we all get solid privacy.

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zv099 redditor for 3 weeks Yesterday

When do you think we Breez will be out of beta mode and we can just download it from the app store?

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king-only Yesterday

Let's see how the RC goes... EOY hopefully...

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zv099 redditor for 3 weeks Yesterday

Jesus, this really is amazing! I was a Lightning skeptic in the past but this is a LOT of work and is exactly what's needed to make it work seamlessly.

Anyone still doubting Lightning in good faith should look at all the work like this. Most people won't so it's an uphill battle for a while but it's clearly working and will win out.

LSP...does that stand for lightning service provider?

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king-only Yesterday

Thank you ❤️ And yes: https://medium.com/breez-technology/introducing-lightning-service-providers-fe9fb1665d5f

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Immediate-Host Yesterday

this is what we need to get lightning mainstream, awesome work and article, I liked it a lot.

!lntip 5000

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king-only Yesterday

Thank you ❤️

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lntipbot Yesterday

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trynewideas - @trynewideas 2 days ago

> Another example is business productivity apps architected as web services. Early products like Salesforce were easier to access and cheaper to maintain than their on-premise counterparts. Modern productivity apps like Google Docs, Figma, and Slack focus on things you simply couldn’t do before, like real-time collaboration and deep integrations with other apps.

I'm not sure I'd consider any of these brand new things, even in the context of cloud nativity. CSCW works in particular go back to the mid-80s! They aren't new things, but iterations on old things -- the iterative gap is so large that they _feel_ new, but the changes they provided improved accessibility to existing functionality, not innovative new functionality.

- Networked CRMs were preceded by so, so many database frontends.

- Google Docs was bought-not-made, and its components were also preceded by peer-to-peer collaborative editing tools outside of the web browser (SubEthaEdit, but also Instant Update, Aspects, and other early 90s/00s groupware suites).

- Collaborative drawing and design software go all the way back to Xerox PARC projects like Videodraw.

- Slack wasn't even first of its breed!

GCA10 - @GCA10 2 days ago

Presumably DOTB and DBNT should be pitched to investors -- and funded -- in very different ways.

Doing old things better is very amenable to metrics, lifetime value of customer, market-adoption forecasts, cost of customer acquisition, etc. This is the land of venture money with milestones and ever-growing rounds as success unfolds. (Or asphyxiation if success doesn't happen.)

Doing brand new things probably is far more likely to start via bootstrapping, passion projects, university research and other areas where open-ended curious inquiry is tolerated better. Dixon (OP) loosely acknowledges this when he writes that entrepreneurs "usually spend many years deeply immersed in the underlying technology before they have their key insights."

Eventually the path forward will be clear enough that the VC/metrics folks can show up for later financing rounds and do their thing. But I'll argue that venture's metrics-driven feed-or-starve system is more likely to mess up this early exploration than to help it.

Even though VCs will insist that they are equally good at both.

rossdavidh - @rossdavidh 2 days ago

"The most common mistake people make when evaluating new technologies is to focus too much on the “doing old things better” category."

While I get what they're driving at, I think there are good reasons to focus on this; you have some plausible chance of getting it right. The track record of people, even really smart people who work in technology, being able to predict the 'brand new things' that technology will be used for, is awful. Plus, if you want to get the technology up and running, it needs to get used for something old (better) first. If the early moviemakers hadn't made play-like movies first, they might never have learned enough about film to make movies that weren't like that.

Just because the early uses of a technology are doing old things better, but the later brand new things turn out to be a bigger deal, doesn't mean the 'old things better' phase was a mistake. It is probably necessary.

shahbaby - @shahbaby 2 days ago

I used to wonder why there's always a constant flood of new new technologies, frameworks, products, etc. instead of improvements over existing solutions.

Now I believe I know why; it's about growth for the business, at all levels. New technology may give the business a competitive edge but more importantly it will give the developers who created it as well as those who learn it, a career boast.

This is why we get things like software updates for a UI that no one asked for.

In the end, the core idea is that "good enough" is never enough. Because improvements, not maintenance, drive careers forward.

altacc - @altacc 2 days ago

Also known as sustaining innovation vs disruptive innovation.

When you’re embedded in a technology or business it’s harder to come up with something totally new, your perspective is often limited by your situation (everything is a nail when you have a hammer). As something brand new can also be damaging to the current business model, it feels uncomfortable.

Often you need somebody with the right mix of experience and independence (plus enough capital) to create something truly disruptive.

megameter - @megameter 2 days ago

You can market your end results as an old thing, but if it's ever the case that you aren't introducing a thing new to that market, you have a speculative hot potato, not a good business. If the neighborhood already has five boba shops, the sixth one that opens is facing a lot of competition.

Which in some respects doesn't mean you have to be innovative at any point, just well timed and positioned. Underserved niches often love "more of the old stuff" if it brings back something they thought was lost. And bringing back the old stuff can be a gamble just as much as doing a groundbreaking thing; in that case, having a way of doing it better is a great derisk.

ksec - @ksec 1 day ago

How do we define new things though?

Search Engine, Smartphone, Digital Cameras, PCs what else? All of the leader in those categories were Doing Old Things Better.

It wasn't about Doing Old or New. It was simply about the timing and Roadmap. Apple Newton had all the right idea, but the technology was far from ready and 15 years ahead of its time.

Netflix? Remember there was a War between Windows Media, MPEG and RealVideo before the days of Flash Video Streaming?

To me, doing new things is Invention. Doing old things better is innovation. At the end of the day, all it matter if there is enough Value creation, it seems to me DOTB or DBNT is the wrong question to ask.

aabhay - @aabhay 2 days ago

What are some examples in the DBNT category that created unicorn startups? I know lots of DBNT that happened inside of large companies (e.g. Bell Labs). What are some examples of cases where the companies were able to create massive market share from scratch?

Common examples of DBNT were really just DOTB:

Google -> not the first search engine

Apple -> not the first computer/music player/touch phone

Spotify -> not the first music streaming platform

Nvidia -> not the first GPU

maverickJ - @maverickJ 2 days ago

Sometimes you just have to copy what worked for someone else in their venture and apply it to your own venture. I know that the world tells us that we need to be original; that we need to come up with new ideas to apply to our lives, careers and businesses; that we are special. However, I believe that sometimes, we can achieve tremendous success not by trying to come up with new ideas but by leveraging ideas that have already been tested by someone else.

The article https://leveragethoughts.substack.com/p/originality-is-not-t... provides a case study.

rvr_ - @rvr_ 1 day ago

I don't believe in 100% original work. Everything is build upon the past. Doing new things will always be some form of doing old things better.

ryanSrich - @ryanSrich 2 days ago

Find products with low NPS and high fragmentation. No need for an entirely novel idea. Even the best products we use everyday were very likely not brand new ideas.

colordrops - @colordrops 2 days ago

Then there's doing old things better by doing brand new things, e.g. tesla and SpaceX.

innagadadavida - @innagadadavida 2 days ago

This all depends on where you draw the lines.

One could argue that nothing really new has happened since digital audio, video, computing and communication - all technologies that are 50years old.

All that has happened is that they got cheaper, faster, smaller. Most certainly, a16z has invested mostly in startups that just fall into this category and very little in building fundamental tech.

mrmonkeyman - @mrmonkeyman 1 day ago

If you think Salesforce is just same old, but online, you don't know Salesforce.

Google docs, Figma and especially Slack rehash old ideas. Hardly any new ideas there. Wrong examples.

Show all comments on Hackernews

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IGRIVKO 2 days ago

https://youtu.be/wZr_KRwZfhY и видео с акценти от нейното изявление, с леки препратки към крипто валутите и #bitcoin от автора на материала.

1

FuzzyApartment 3 days ago

Beginning of the end of the USD as the world reserve currency is what came to mind when I read this nonsense.

1

spe59436-bcaoo 3 days ago

Original Bretton Woods moment: https://wtfhappenedin1971.com. Absolute scum

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SatoshisVisionTM Yesterday

That was nixon's decision to take the dollar off of the gold standard. Bretton woods was in the forties post-ww2, and tethered the USD to most other currencies.

1

neo_mkl 3 days ago

The IMF is the bitch to the Bank of International Settlements in Basel.

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structee 3 days ago

Can someone explain what this will mean? I always understood Bretton woods was a huge deal.

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fremeer 3 days ago

Bretton woods was basically everyone in developed world deciding to go on a gold standard. It last officially something like 25 years. But realistically it lasted much less because banks had started to circumvent it in the 60s. The reason it was important was because they didn't use one countries currency as the reserve. One issue with a reserve currency is that when it becomes the dominant form of credit currency because of trade you end up needing that country to provide liquidity assistance to the whole world. I'm not sure how it would work because a lot of the current issue is the central banks as a whole are run by neoclassical people. They dont really model for credit and that's the dominant form of monetary creation.

4

Internetguy9998 2 days ago

Are you being serious right now? Dude, seriously... Bernankes work was literally based on credit markets and their impact of financial crisis, this was why he extended credit to other central banks too.

1

fremeer 2 days ago

The dsge modelling commonly used by banks doesn't involve credit as an input. Hell the idea of indebted demand etc in a neoclassical model is something that only started to be talked post financial crisis. Bernanke never really worried about the accumulation of private debt at all. He worried about seizing up of credit markets.

1

lolomfgkthxbai 2 days ago

> The reason it was important was because they didn’t use one countries currency as the reserve. In practice it was a way to make the US dollar the reserve currency with an extra step since the US held most of the gold in the world.

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johnturtle 3 days ago

This is good for bitcoin (tm)

During Brenton Woods, the dollar was pegged to gold, isn't this a good sign for bitcoin? This could lead to governments buying bitcoin and pegging their currency to bitcoin.

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TheGreatMuffin 3 days ago

> During Brenton Woods, the dollar was pegged to gold I am not an expert at all, but I'm pretty sure the peg of USD to gold was far before that. Bretton Woods pegged other countries' currencies to USD though, from what I understand, as a way to ensure USD's status as a world reserve currency.

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SatoshisVisionTM Yesterday

Correct. And when Nixon in 1971 decided to move the dollar away from the fixed peg with gold, he basically shanked the entire world.

1

BigRocksFirst redditor for 5 weeks 3 days ago

There were gold standards before Bretton Woods. The US (and others) had gone off it. I can't remember if US was back on it before Bretton Woods, but I'm thinking no - the cost of the war was likely too high. As such, I'm thinking Bretton Woods was an attempt to get main world economies back on gold standard, but there was a problem. There wasn't enough gold for all countries to be on the gold standard, but there was enough gold for USD to be backed by gold. So, USD was backed by gold and all other nations in the agreement pegged their currency to USD. That allowed all countries to be "pegged to gold", even if indirectly. That fell apart when USD could also not be backed by gold anymore.

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maxcoiner 3 days ago

Too early for that. Not until all governments already have stockpiles of Bitcoin (And the price would easily be above $10m per BTC then) would they ever consider it. Otherwise the limits on the money supply are way too constrictive. Gold's supply is too constrictive too for that matter. There's only $12 trillion or so worth of Gold in existence. There really isn't anything to back all of today's debt and currencies with.

1

Rusure111111 Bronze 3 days ago

nothing like a little fear mongering by the media to force 100mm new people into poverty, debt, and decreased value of their savings and only let them out when they agree to a new financial system based on carbon credits, continued expansion of fed balance sheets, and more debt.

These people definitely care about you.

1

quigleydude redditor for 2 weeks 3 days ago

I just finished watching a video by Simon Dixon on the subject. Give it a look.

1

ComedyTragedy01 3 days ago

Should make a tldr

0

Logical_Espresso redditor for 3 months 3 days ago

Someone call Ethan Hunt

1

stablecoin-org 3 days ago

I am encouraged by G20 discussions on a Common framework for Sovereign Debt Resolution as well as on our call for improving the architecture for sovereign debt resolution, including private sector participation.

Can someone translate this ?

5

EnricoDandoloThaDOV 3 days ago

In looking at that paragraph in full, I suspect the author is referencing Europe's recent experience with rising debt-servicing costs as a result of a sudden increase in public sector deficits. Unlike the US Treasury or the BOJ, whose debt servicing burden doesn't really increase in line with its outstanding obligations, European governments are vulnerable to perceptions of their repayment ability when they run deficits for some extended period of time. Good examples of this are cases like Ireland, where the government attempted to assume the debts of its heavily indebted financial sector only to default on its own external obligations. Really since 2010 European governments have struggled with the interaction between having a multi-national banking system where governments create debts a la carte, and financial markets assessing their credit risk on a case by case basis. What's being said there is that not everyone can simply issue new debts to support economic activity and that its good to see some discussion on how to better handle resolving heavily indebted sovereigns who end up caught between rising debt servicing costs and lackluster economic performance that doesn't generate the revenues to allow for repayment or borrowing on more agreeable terms.

1

ontrack 3 days ago

Not completely knowledgeable about this, but didn't Draghi make the problem of sovereign debt go away permanently with his guarantee that the ECB will do whatever it takes to keep nations solvent? Italy is borrowing at essentially zero percent these days; the market no longer matters.

1

EnricoDandoloThaDOV 2 days ago

The ECB's broad commitment more pushed embattled sovereigns like Italy and Spain back from the precipice, but the overarching concerns about how those Governments (*and really anyone not France or Germany*) will handle their debt servicing problems has persisted into the present financial crises developing in the wake of COVID.

1

BigRocksFirst 3 days ago

I may be way off base, but here is my thinking... First, necessary background... The data looks to me like much of the world is near the end of the long-term debt cycle. It's not the first time, but it happens infrequently enough that you have to study history instead of relying on experience from your own lifetime. When the end of the long-term debt cycle arrives, the debt level (whether public debt - which means sovereign/govt debt, or whether private debt - which means debt held/owed by individuals, businesses and non-govt institutions) becomes literally unsustainable. There are only 2 known ways to deal with such unsustainable debt levels. Default on the debt, or high enough inflation that the debt can become affordable to pay back with cheaper inflated dollars. A combination of the 2 can also be used. There can also be partial defaults, commonly called "debt restructuring", where things happen such as partial forgiveness of debt, lowering the interest rate, lengthening payback terms, etc. Restructuring tends to happen when the alternative would be nothing gets payed back and there is no asset to foreclose to cover the loan, so the lender would otherwise lose everything they had lended. There is also some ability to transfer private debt to public debt (the fed buys corporate bonds, mortgaged-backed securities, etc - the govt forgives student loans, etc). Defaulting on the debt causes economic destruction, lowering net worth, and also making it even harder for anyone to pay off remaining debt as the economy collapses. Inflating it away causes inflation, loss of buying power for those with meaningful networth, but makes it easier for remaining debt to payed off. Done "wrong" it is a very hard landing. Done perfectly it is a comparably "softer" landing, but nothing near pain-free. Done perfectly, it minimizes the pain to the working class that doesn't have much net-worth to inflate away, and results in inflation that hopefully causes an increase in working class wages that roughly matches increases in prices. Now for the translation. The IMF is acknowledging that the situation discussed in the "background" section above is now the reality. The acknowledgement includes: the problem exists at the sovereign (govt debt) level, that "resolution" is unavoidable (that means accepting their will be defaults if nothing is done, so let's start discussing sovereign "debt restructuring" and debt defaults and coordinated money-printing early while we still have a bit of time to think it through rather than only being able to react), and it implicitly acknowledges that a coordinated effort from many developed countries (the G20) has a profoundly higher chance of delivering a "softer" landing than an uncoordinated approach. In addition, it acknowledges that it might provide more national and world stability if "private sector" can participate in any "debt resolution". 2nd level translation: it might be a more dangerous time to lend any money or take any loan, unless you know what you are doing. The issues with debt resolution won't appear tomorrow. It will take longer. But if I needed to get a loan right now (e.g.,.a mortgage), I would definitely want the govt to be the lender, so that the opportunity to "restructure" it would be higher if economic destruction happens. And, if I had govt backed student loans and other loans, and was making extra payments, I would direct the extra payments to the non-govt loans, where the opportunity for debt restructuring or debt-forgiveness is lower. I would be leary of making any unsecured loans (buying govt bonds), or any loans not 100% collateralized (corporate bonds). If making a loan, I would want the collateral to be MORE than sufficient (e.g., owner-financing on sale of house), in case asset values drop, which is what would likely be happening if I had to foreclose due to default on the loan due to a global end-of-debt cycle issue.

15

senjutsuka 2 days ago

Jubilee is back in style! No but seriously, this had better be acted out with laser precision or we're going to see a french revolution like reaction. There is already so much inequality and worse its completely laid bare. Add in all the various global efforts at dis and mis information and you have a recipe for serious social trust damage.

1

BigRocksFirst 2 days ago

Agreed that it's a real possibility, and agree with your view about how difficult the current situation is. The rise of "nationalist platforms" across multiple countries is one of the key "canaries in the mine", that the level of debt and level of inequality is at a level it won't be tolerated. Our society is now showing key signs of that danger point. Statistics show that a change to form of govt often happens. The end of the long term debt level produces the maximum inequality. Opposition gets polarized because the problem is real and there is a lot at stake for both the haves and have-nots. Both polarized sides refuse to compromise, no action is taken, the problem gets worse, then upheaval happens (someone claims emergency powers, etc, and democracy is lost - worse, some changed regimes then use war to try to obtain resources to get out of the economic problem). There is much more research available, and what I wrote is oversimplified, but the historical data is not encouraging. The fact that the IMF is trying to get significant global cooperation now, though, I hope reduces that type of disruption. It's why the reference to Bretton Woods is relevant. Instead of a "call to arms", she's making a similar "call to cooperation" that helped provide more global economic stability since WW2 than existed before it, that presumably reduced war since WW2. I get that the standard way to fix the problem without regime change is to fix the problem with the same type of thinking that created the problem, and thus continue the cycle anew, but I still think that's better than becoming an authoritarian country. History shows that authoritarian regime is worse than economic destruction (such as a depression) followed by inflation. The authoritarian regime doesn't stop the economic problems, but it adds the loss of freedom problems. Not making any predictions, just being honest about what history shows. A lot depends on what type of person gets elected into positions of leadership, and whether those leaders can cooperate with leaders in other nations and within their own nation to more "softly" crash the plane. I don't want the plane crashed directly into democracy.

1

funke75 3 days ago

Wonderful breakdown of the situation. I would only contend that I believe things are going to happen at a much quicker pace than many would think. I am very interesting in seeing what the announcement will be on Monday morning

3

thisispoopoopeepee 3 days ago

there is a third option; paying it off over a few decades or more.

0

BigRocksFirst 3 days ago

Although that is an option for a single debt in general, once the amount of debt becomes unsustainable, that option won't work. If only the payback period is extended without a partial default on the principal or an implicit partial default by lowering the interest rate, then extending the payback period only works if the borrower has enough income to still actually afford the interest payment plus some reduced piece of the principal each payment (reduced because the payback term was extended). Once the total (even reduced) payment by itself exceeds the total ability to pay out of current cash flow, the situation reduces to just the other 2 situations. At a macro level, if my understanding of the current analysis is correct, the US will be at that point of no return no later than 2023, if not there already. And, the issue is not limited to the US. From my memory, the statistics are that only 1 time out of 50 has the above 2 options not happened once a nation's debt reached a certain "unsustainable" level, and we are already at that unsustainable level or forecasted to be there within 2 years tops. We were headed there without covid, but covid accelerated it. So, based on the past (and based on my memory to have not mixed up pieces of research), there is a 98% chance that we are facing those other 2 outcomes, and the IMF is acknowledging it is a global problem.

5

Not-your-dog303 3 days ago

Correct me if Im wrong, is this not the reason the gold bugs and the bitcoiners want to "Store value" in something that is not a national currency? I mean you could technically buy art or fine wine over sticking with currencies, that need to unwind a bunch of debt Most wealth in the west is stored in housing and stocks, so if the actual currencies lose value through inflationary measures AND you have no bank wanting to lend on homes that could decline in value during this period, you've got a real pickle there.

1

BigRocksFirst 3 days ago

I believe you are correct. That does seem to be the significant driver for current accumulation of gold and bitcoin. Gold as a "proven" store of value, and bitcoin as an "aspirational" store of value. From what I can gather, the unwinding of long term debt cycles has tended to have economic destruction first, then inflation second. My interpretation is that the Fed is committed to do whatever it takes to avoid the economic destruction phase this time through its monetary policy, but has basically said recently that it cannot achieve that goal without the government implementing coordinated fiscal policy. Nor is it clear that coordinated monetary and fiscal policy will actually be achieved (there are substantial "political will"/divisiveness issues in this country right now - the end of the long term debt cycle is also correlated to changes in form of govt (e.g., democracy becomes authoritarian) when the conflicting parties can't cooperate to solve a problem that by definition will have many losers - that's how several 1930s authoritarian leaders came to power - there is traditionally more political divisiveness near the end of the long term debt cycle). If cooperation IS achieved, it is not clear that the GOAL of that cooperation would actually be achieved. Because current monetary policy has already driven interest rates to basically zero and will stay there for quite a while, the entire 60/40 portfolio idea is out of the window for quite a while. People are all individually trying to figure out what to do in the face of possibly negative real rate of return for the next decade on interest bearing instruments - interest rate received actually below inflation. Because of that (the There Is No Alternative scenario), equities are currently already over inflating significantly to 2023/2025 levels, because there's not a good alternative place to put the money that people currently have. Real estate will presumably go up during the inflationary period if it happens. Presumably both real estate and most equities will go down during an economic destruction period, especially some rental real estate, and especially commercial real estate. Some equities would do well. The issue with lending is even worse than you mention. Banks don't want to lend on property that might go down in value (unless they believe the govt will bail them out), but as of this week, banks are tightening lending due to the risk of the borrower (rather than the risk of the securing asset). During an economic downturn, lots of people lose the ability to pay back loans. Yes, it is already a real pickle for anyone taking a forward looking view at portfolio asset allocation. More and more people are looking at alternative assets. Most people have neither the capital nor knowledge for fine art or wine investing. And those would do well in the inflationary period but my assumption is they would lose tremendous value during economic destruction period. Good luck and wisdom to everyone trying to navigate the next several years financially. I'm not claiming the sky is falling, just elaborating on all the backdrop of why someone at the IMF would be "encouraged" about 20 globally leading economies talking about "sovereign debt resolution, with opportunity for private participation." They are encouraged because they recognize the problem will not go away. The best they can do is have some influence on a controlled crash landing. Like you see in the movies when the landing gear won't come down from the airplane with 300 passengers on board. The plane is not going to survive the landing, but you try to save as many lives as possible.

6

BigRocksFirst 2 days ago

P.S. I am definitely NOT claiming to have it figured out. It is just something that I have been doing a deep dive on because it is clear to me that it is unsafe for me to presume previous asset allocations or sources of income would still be safe going forward. I am voraciously trying to figure out good decisions for myself in light of what appears to be the emerging macroeconomic situation. The best thinking out there seems to be that the closest corollary to our current situation is the US in the early/mid 1940s, on the heals of the 1930s. There seem to now be very thoughtful people sharing that perspective rather than it just being "sky is falling" folks like it was for the previous 30 years. Rather than feeling helpless, I decided I could deepen my education and try to reach better decisions based on that deeper education. Any thoughts I shared in this thread should be seen as a reflection of my current incomplete journey in getting that education. That's led me through a lot of history including long-term debt cycles, statistical analysis of them, what are the points of no return, rise of both left-wing and right-wing populous movements when the economy no longer works for substantial chunks of citizens near the end of the long term debt cycle, how those populous movements tend to end, Bretton Woods agreement to try to build a stable economic structure after world war II, all the alternative asset classes that often only make sense except near the end of the long-term debt cycle. And don't forget that history will never repeat, it only rhymes. It's a pickle.

3

no_crying 2 days ago

I spend sometime thinking this, since most large wealth holders are aware of the inflationary play governments around the world is doing, then they would leverage themselves or do something to get ahead further in the game. the longer the period to land the aircraft, the risky it is that aircraft will crash harder. still thinking if inflation is a zero sum gain and if game theory applies here.

1

thisispoopoopeepee 3 days ago

allow mild inflation (slightly above average) on top of paying it back... also.... stop using government funds for things that have low ROI.....might help.....

1

[deleted] 3 days ago

[deleted]

2

BigRocksFirst 3 days ago

I won't argue, and it is now the Fed's stated goal. To have higher than normal inflation for as long as it takes. They phrased it as being as long as it takes for the average inflation to get back to the target, which is a hand waving way of telling the public "don't be alarmed at this uncomfortable level of inflation, it's just to get the average back to a comfortable 2%!". They have also said that despite the economic costs of the money printing and inflation, now is absolutely not the time to worry about that because of the problem that will happen if it's not done. Their view seems to be that they would rather take that than the economic destruction of tons of people being out of work. They explicitly said they are willing for the stock market to inflate crazily if that's what it takes to protect from that economic destruction. The best metaphor I can come up with at this point, is that there may be no way to land this plane with the plane surviving, but they are trying to keep the passengers alive during the "softer" landing. Yes, if the plane survives that's a bonus. There are a few jobs I am glad I do not have right now, and they are being a school teacher, principal or superintendent, and being responsible for monetary or fiscal policy. Right now, if they do their job right, they piss off a lot of people and are misnderstood by almost everyone. There is no way I could land the plane without crashing it.

2

SteveFoerster 3 days ago

Thievery Corporation's song about the IMF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1FZwsGjVsg

The lyrics are fire:

When the bank man comes to your door
Better know you'll always be poor
Bank loans and policies
They can't make our people free

You live on the blood of my people
Everyone knows you've come to steal
You come like the thieves in the night
The whole world is ready to fight

If you go to Lagos, what you find, vampires
If you go to Kinshasa, what you find, vampires
If you go to Darfur, what you find, vampires
If you go to Malabo, what you find, vampires

Lies and theft
Guns and Debt
Life and Death
IMF

8

foreverwantrepreneur 3 days ago

There shouldn’t be an IMF.

4

TheMischievousBadger 3 days ago

Buy gold and silver right now

0

infernalr00t 3 days ago

Unless you are buying gold bullion you only own an IOU. Instead buy Bitcoin.

0

EMPERORTRUMPTER 3 days ago

and own nothing

6

TheMadPyro 3 days ago

Nothing like taking financial advice from unpaid internet strangers

2

BismuthMoon 3 days ago

Now you know why duuurrr cobid. The reset. You need a scamdemic

0

fresheneesz 3 days ago

> scamdemic You're a fucking moron with your head in the sand (or more likely far up trump's ass)

0

BismuthMoon 3 days ago

Another sad sufferer of TDS. Best of wishes.

0

hash_me_harder redditor for 2 weeks 3 days ago

henceforth, I hereby call for A Middle Finger Moment.

MFM, if you will.

3

bundleogrundle 3 days ago

This is a just a marketing release with buzz words to make the general public think this is good for them.

“ Our unprecedented action was only possible thanks to our members’ generous support. The doubling of the New Arrangements to Borrow and a new round of bilateral borrowing arrangements preserves this financial firepower. Members have also stepped up with essential contributions to our Catastrophe Containment – and Relief and Poverty Reduction and Growth—Trusts.

This has allowed us to support our low-income members with debt relief and to triple our concessional lending. We are engaging with members to further boost our concessional lending capacity adapt our lending toolkit and increase support for capacity development.”

What a load of bull shit. What low income group are they helping?

11

Ferdo306 3 days ago

It's bullshit. They are talking about sustainable finance and large growth like they are interconnected and not opposites

5

AmazingSuperPupils 3 days ago

The only Breton I want is Breton water crackers! I love snacks!

1

xboox 3 days ago

A shit ton of pretty words from our slave-drivers.
They'll do whatever it takes to remain in charge.

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free-speech-1 3 days ago

This

2

oldskoolr 3 days ago

A video of the speech can be watched here

https://youtu.be/uTmfwklFM-M

1

SuspiciousSociety1 3 days ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enmHW4gCkAY

live now

1

BubblegumTitanium 3 days ago

IMF ICO with a 90% premine and a dev tax all based on chaumian ecash - fuckk this

7

Btcmaan 3 days ago

IMF is a scam.

24

Fiach_Dubh 3 days ago

There was a recent panel with the deputy governor of the bank of Canada of Canada on this very topic. Related video: https://youtu.be/vRgq9UN8KQ0

3

cipher-zer0 3 days ago

Recommended reading: The Creature From Jekyll Island

19

3

25 1 3

jaimewarlock 2 days ago

I got in a big argument with Brian over a business deal that went bad. While he was probably legally in the right, I told him that he was morally wrong.

He could have just totally ignored me after that, there really wasn't anything I could have done about the situation. However, later upon reflection, he agreed with me and gave me 10 bitcoins compensation.

Sure, I am just one person, but ever since that event, I will always consider him to have a very high level of integrity.

1

harrynyce 1 day ago

I'm not questioning his integrity in his personal life, I'm sure he's a decent guy (even though he screwed you, by your own admission) who thinks he makes moral choices, but money has a tendency to corrupt people... and being in [bed with JPMorgan](https://decrypt.co/29832/jp-morgans-ceo-held-secret-meetings-with-the-coinbase-ceo) tends to force a person's hand, especially when said person wants their business to attain banking services and attain a seat at the big boy table and not fear running afoul of regulatory agencies. If he'll bend you over for <six figures, imagine what he's capable of now that he's in Jamie Dimon's pocket and deals are worth 10 - 100x more. He sold you out, then bought you off, but i very much respect you sharing your perspective and have no reason to doubt your sincerity. Mind if i inquire how long was the length of time between when the deal went bad and when he attempted (or did) make things right with you? Somehow i doubt Mr. Armstrong woke up the next day and immediately went to correct his error, i have a sneaking suspicion by the time he did it, 10 BTC was rather insignificant to his bottom line. It's not like he dropped a briefcase of cash on your doorstep, it was barely an inconvenience to his world. But now I'm just speculating a ton. I'd love to be wrong, but i think we both know he's spineless. There's plenty of decent human beings without the capacity or courage to stand up to Wall Street or Uncle Sam (not that there's much of a difference). Heck, I'd sell out every user on Reddit for the ability to be the first crypto IPO in the USofA. Someone has to take those secret meetings, at least we always knew the Gemini twins were corporate whores, i held out hope and made excuses for Brian (and Cbase) because there were so few other options when trying to assist neophyte crypto users. Oh well, not the first time I've been a poor judge of character. Nor the last. Stupid hippie hopefulness always making me want to give folks the benefit of the doubt. Regardless of my unhinged rant, i do genuinely appreciate you taking the time to share this anecdotal tale. Please stay safe, sir.

1

jaimewarlock Yesterday

>Mind if i inquire how long was the length of time between when the deal went bad and when he attempted (or did) make things right with you? A few months. And thinking back, I realize that one of his programmers probably had more to do with the situation than he did. He was involved in a lot of projects at the time. I prefer to think that once he had a clear picture of what transpired, he made things right for me.

1

Bitcoin_to_da_Moon 3 days ago

Read the Whitepaper. It´s political.

6

harrynyce 3 days ago

💯

2

soontobesilenced redditor for 3 months 3 days ago

the same can be said about any ceo, since you can't be a ceo without bowing to your govt masters.

what have you done for bitcoin? because coinbase has certainly done lots for bitcoin.

1

tk11811 3 days ago

Remember when Coinbase was against Bitcoin when they supported Segwit2x?

1

scotty321 3 days ago

Brian Armstrong is 100% correct, and we would live in a much better world if more CEOs had the courage to follow in his footsteps.

A corporation is not a campaign rally, and a corporation is certainly not a front for the terrorist Marxist organization known as Black Lives Matter, which is a fundraising initiative for the Democratic Socialist Communist Party. A corporation should never bow down to the mob.

Some educational material for you:

https://www.redstate.com/brandon_morse/2020/06/23/black-lives-matter-marxists/

https://fee.org/articles/is-black-lives-matter-marxist-no-and-yes/

https://www.bitchute.com/video/lRcEb3zwec4t/

0

jeremyisreal1 redditor for 3 months 3 days ago

Call him what you want, he's a huge reason why BTC is as popular as it is today. Every other website is impossible to use without intense study.

Coinbase is a necessary evil until a better company comes along, and I define better by convincing the largest portion of a group to use it.

2

BitcoinIsSimple 3 days ago

I didn't read the article but how else can you runs bitcoin exchnage. Are you supposed to do what arthur from bitmex supposedly did, and then get arrested or would you really rather there be no centralised exchanges at all

1

harrynyce 3 days ago

You can run an exchange without censoring the thoughts of your employees. DeFi would be great, but we're not there yet. We're still working on basic adoption for the masses while the technology (hopefully) scales.

2

W944 3 days ago

>without censoring the thoughts of your employees. Yet it's okay for employees to coerce their management to follow their political groupthink? The CEO guy is allowed to not give a fuck about blm. He's just the only one open about it. No corporation gives a fuck about blm. They all put out their cucky statements to appease the mob for a few weeks and you guys eat it all up and take the pitchforks to the next village. Get over it.

1

BitcoinIsSimple 3 days ago

I'm talking about centralised exchanges because that's what's here for the most part

1

BitcoinXio Moderator - Bitcoin is Freedom 3 days ago

Downvoted for the title. With that said, I can’t imagine the struggle it is to run a giant company that is a leader in the crypto space, but basically telling all staff they can’t talk about certain topics or get fired is really the wrong way to go about things. Especially since crypto is rooted in controversy and going against mainstream ideas and regulations, it just seems whacky to push this sort of agenda at a crypto company.

4

harrynyce 3 days ago

Thank you for the thoughtful (and correct) analysis on a very complex and nuanced topic. I should have considered my title more carefully, trying to convey a certain level of emphasis without being quite so vulgar.

0

5boros 3 days ago

Oh no, a major mainstream financial institution's CEO is complying with the government, and as a result excelling at earning his investors millions. What has this world come to?

10

somedaysitsdark 3 days ago

I didn't see anything outrageous in the article.

9

NilacTheGrim 3 days ago

Yeah I agree with you. TBH discussing politics at work can be very toxic and destructive. I can see why a company would have such a policy. It's like discussing religion at work too -- you're just going to end up taking a side and it will get in the way of productivity. Do it on your own time. I see nothing wrong with this at all. Corporations are totalitarian systems.. you should realize that going in to one. They are under no obligation to pay you to waste their time. If you want maximal freedom don't work for a corporation. I see nothing wrong with what they are doing.

15

dbvbtm 3 days ago

I still don't understand all the heat. Coinbase is a private company, it doesn't have to pay you to organize and participate in political events, that's not your job there. Armstrong was nice enough to offer severance pay to these workers.

This is a non-issue. People need to learn their place.

2

harrynyce 3 days ago

Yes, please shut up and sit down. Don't bother thinking for yourself, Daddy Armstrong will tell you exactly how to handle things. After all, he's nice.

0

dbvbtm 3 days ago

You are free to do what you want in your spare time. Don't disrupt the workplace with politics. When has this ever been okay?

3

smoothID redditor for 3 months 3 days ago

Damn, my manager is censoring my GTA5 gaming sessions at work. Saying it's a "distraction." WTF

1

AmazingSuperPupils 3 days ago

This guy makes authoritarian workplace bitcoiners cum their shorts everyone this gets brought up.

3

HauntingCorpse 3 days ago

F**k sjw morons

1

AmazingSuperPupils 3 days ago

Yeah fuck justice and social issues. Fuck anti fascists. Me and my homies love fascism.

0

HauntingCorpse 3 days ago

I absolutely love the brainwashed nerds who use the word ‘fascism’ every chance they get.

2

harrynyce 3 days ago

You mean, Fox News attempting to terrify their susceptible viewer base with constant cries of "Antifa is coming, antifa is coming!" You love licking boots, eh?

0

HauntingCorpse 3 days ago

Lol. Are you one of the antifa bois that wears fishnets under his skinny jeans?

1

xboox 3 days ago

WTF did I just read?
Report this low quality garbage

0

xboox 3 days ago

If someone's paying you to work -- shut your month & work dummy! :)
Simple.

1

tk11811 3 days ago

Kim jong un would love it if you worked for him.

1

AmazingSuperPupils 3 days ago

The way you value labor and time is so fucked

1

harrynyce 3 days ago

More like, _"Open your mouth & work dummy!"_ Now... on your knees! /s What, you don't do **everything** that is asked of you while at the workplace? Tsk tsk, you terrible worker drone, stop trying to think for yourself. Now get back in line.

0

tamerlane888 3 days ago

Business is business!

1

tk11811 3 days ago

Looks like some people love this guy more than Bitcoin.

1

harrynyce 3 days ago

Amazed the number of folk around here lining up to lick his boots. Color me surprised. Did I accidentally get stuck with the BCH fools, or something?

1

DJBunnies 3 days ago

Low effort garbage.

1

time_wasted504 3 days ago

OR: hes trying to run a business and really doesnt want to take a political side?

govt cuck v fence sitter? Which is which?

8

sammyb67 3 days ago

Exactly!! These pussys that say this stupid shit clearly have never run a business and by the way, try opposing Uncle Sam and see what happens to your business! Ask google, Apple, etc.

1

time_wasted504 3 days ago

The real money gives to both parties and keeps their mouth shut. Its a win/win for them

3

harrynyce 3 days ago

Except he got into the wrong business, crypto is inherently political. It directly challenges there most powerful institutions on the planet. I guess I forget just how many are just here for, __moon when? Lambo! __ and could give a shit about anything else. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

0

time_wasted504 3 days ago

>crypto is inherently political. no, its not. Crypto is inherently maths. It is not left/right/up/down or any political persuasion

3

harrynyce 3 days ago

You're talking about specifically the technologies, while forgetting the use-cases -- it's political. You don't have to agree, it's not up for debate. Fact.

1

Phrygian1221 3 days ago

Maybe its political to you? That would explain it! I use bitcoin as a store of value and a means of payment/money transfer. Bitcoin isn't political to me.

0

harrynyce 2 days ago

You have chosen to ignore the political aspects and focus on your specific use-case, but i assure you, read the whitepaper: https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf It is definitely political. I suspect you (and your government) would almost certainly agree that it's political once you have triggered enough taxable events, but choosing to ignore it and treat crypto in the same way you might a precious metal, sure it's easy to avoid the politics... but don't try to exchange that for anything, that might become political. Again, you don't have to agree with me, but you're wrong. Also, if Cbase were to hand your information over to your government, i think that could become political pretty quickly: https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/81458/coinbase-transparency-report-2020

1

sammyb67 3 days ago

Exactly

1

1nv1s1blek1d 3 days ago

It's like people have never worked at a corporation before. Financial services monitor almost everything you do. This is nothing new. I wouldn't be surprised if they monitored the conversations on Slack. If your employee's job could theoretically influence the market, you would want to know about it. You are working in their ecosystem under their terms. There is no trust when it comes to the money game. I am pretty sure BlackRock, Fidelity, and Goldman Sachs do the same thing.

2

newthrowawayfor2017 3 days ago

Money and politics shouldn't mix anyway.

3

rasaxar Redditor for 3 months. 4 days ago

Coinbase man bad.

5

Think-notlikedasheep Redditor for 1 months. 4 days ago

So if a company is totally NOT obsessed with politics, and actually wants to do what its business is about, that's eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil. /sarc

Whackjobs say this.

4

ManyArtichoke Gold | QC: BTC 39, CC 37 | TraderSubs 10 4 days ago

Did you read the article?

1

HauntingCorpse Redditor for 5 months. 4 days ago

Telling SJW idiots to piss off isn’t censorship, it’s the best course of action

18

ManyArtichoke Gold | QC: BTC 39, CC 37 | TraderSubs 10 4 days ago

It's a pretty clear example of censorship in the workplace. Just because you happen to agree with the motivation for censoring employees doesn't negate the fact that it's censorship.

0

HauntingCorpse Redditor for 5 months. 4 days ago

Not every business has to be in the business of putting up with psychos.

2

ManyArtichoke Gold | QC: BTC 39, CC 37 | TraderSubs 10 4 days ago

Coinbase has the *right* to censor their employees, but that doesn't mean it isn't censorship. Asking someone to delete political posts they previously made is just about the clearest example of censorship I can think of.

0

HauntingCorpse Redditor for 5 months. 4 days ago

Nutjobs trying to shut down businesses that don’t support Burn Loot Murder is a better example.

0

ManyArtichoke Gold | QC: BTC 39, CC 37 | TraderSubs 10 4 days ago

The US has a violent, militarized police force that is literally killing citizens in the street and you have the gall to defend them. You're either on the side of the people or the side of the violent police state. I know what side I'm on.

2

HauntingCorpse Redditor for 5 months. 4 days ago

Just go be a normal person and see who kills you first, a cop, or a gangbanger.

0

[deleted] 4 days ago

[deleted]

0

ManyArtichoke Gold | QC: BTC 39, CC 37 | TraderSubs 10 4 days ago

Coinbase has the *right* to censor their employees. I'm not arguing against that. However, it's still censorship. Asking someone to delete previous posts and comments they made is just about the clearest example of censorship I can think of.

1

[deleted] 4 days ago

[deleted]

0

ManyArtichoke Gold | QC: BTC 39, CC 37 | TraderSubs 10 4 days ago

Being given the choice to leave doesn't negate the fact that it's censorship. It's the equivalent of saying "If you don't want the goverment to censor you then you can leave the country." Censorship does not need to employ brute force, you just made that definition up.

1

[deleted] 4 days ago

[deleted]

0

ManyArtichoke Gold | QC: BTC 39, CC 37 | TraderSubs 10 4 days ago

You just made up another definition. Find me a single definition of censorship that specifies brute force or prior freedom of speech. I guess people in China can't be censored because they never had freedom of speech to begin with. The posts in question were on Slack, an internal messaging app. It doesn't affect their reputation in any way. Also since when are goverments required to uphold freedom of speech laws? That would be news to a lot of goverments around the world.

1

DetroitMotorShow Redditor for 2 months. 4 days ago

https://www.hrexaminer.com/is-there-free-speech-at-work/ You have rather weak understanding of what companies are. Private businesses are not street corners to stage protests where freedom of speech laws apply. You cant cry censorship over company's policy - its absurd and laughable. Employees are free to find a job that comes with free speech. > The posts in question were on Slack, an internal messaging app. It doesn't affect their reputation in any way. Certainly does. If the news gets out that CB employees are doing woke things using official business/company communication platform, it would hurt CB's reputation. > I guess people in China can't be censored because they never had freedom of speech to begin with. Again, false equivalence. Governments are meant to uphold free speech. The fact that CCP doesnt allow free speech doesnt take away the premise that freedom of speech is something that a government offers its citizens. Private companies dont offer employees freedom of speech - they arent a charity.

1

Thc420Vato 4 days ago

I hate Coinbase, but i sure as hell love when SJW's get their asses handed to them.

6

ManyArtichoke Gold | QC: BTC 39, CC 37 | TraderSubs 10 4 days ago

You would prefer to work somewhere that censors private communicate channels and asks you to remove previous posts that you made?

2

Thc420Vato 4 days ago

I ain't woke enough to answer on your question.

1

1 3

4 12

Jon Matonis - @jonmatonis

RT @jerrybrito: 1/ Glad to see Coinbase publishing a transparency report, joining companies like Kraken. Hopefully this becomes an industry standard. https://t.co/vQNrBj4YEH

21 119

Nick Szabo⚡️ - @NickSzabo4

RT @coinbase: As part of our commitment to being the most trusted venue to interact with cryptocurrency, we are releasing our first Transparency Report. The report summarizes government requests that we received for customer account info during the first half of 2020. https://t.co/GCjueNlzZy

180 594

Ryan Selkis - @twobitidiot

RT @jerrybrito: 1/ Glad to see Coinbase publishing a transparency report, joining companies like Kraken. Hopefully this becomes an industry standard. https://t.co/vQNrBj4YEH

13 95

Erik Voorhees - @ErikVoorhees

This is a really good practice. Note that zero companies outside of the crypto industry do this. https://t.co/YUebBP01ym

2 29

Peter Van Valkenburgh - @valkenburgh

RT @jerrybrito: 1/ Glad to see Coinbase publishing a transparency report, joining companies like Kraken. Hopefully this becomes an industry standard. https://t.co/vQNrBj4YEH

2 14

Neeraj K. Agrawal - @NeerajKA

RT @jerrybrito: 1/ Glad to see Coinbase publishing a transparency report, joining companies like Kraken. Hopefully this becomes an industry standard. https://t.co/vQNrBj4YEH

1 9

Jerry Brito - @jerrybrito

1/ Glad to see Coinbase publishing a transparency report, joining companies like Kraken. Hopefully this becomes an industry standard. https://t.co/vQNrBj4YEH

1 9

Reuben Bramanathan - @bramanathan

RT @iampaulgrewal: I’m pleased to share news of Coinbase’s first transparency report. It’s critical that our community and the public at large understand the scope of government requests for information and our efforts to respond. https://t.co/TQ6LjfrU3x

5 23

Matt Odell - @matt_odell

RT @nobsbitcoin: Transparency at Coinbase > today we’re releasing a Transparency Report that shares insights into how we handle legitimate government requests for some customer data https://t.co/BWSFHYSQW7 archive: https://t.co/4NJLxMkxGy https://t.co/jswGw44Nfn

2 3

Andrea O'Sullivan - @anjiecast

RT @coinbase: As part of our commitment to being the most trusted venue to interact with cryptocurrency, we are releasing our first Transparency Report. The report summarizes government requests that we received for customer account info during the first half of 2020. https://t.co/GCjueNlzZy

92 279

Pierre Rochard - @pierre_rochard

RT @brian_armstrong: Hopefully this gives more transparency into the kind of data requests we get from government. We'll continue to push back where we see requests that are overly broad or inappropriate. https://t.co/4wpQdQxVyx

27 103

Brian Armstrong - @brian_armstrong

Hopefully this gives more transparency into the kind of data requests we get from government. We'll continue to push back where we see requests that are overly broad or inappropriate. https://t.co/4wpQdQxVyx

27 103

SocialSuicideSquad 3 days ago

FDA whaaaaaaa

Also USPIS has way more than I would have expected.

IRS are the only ones that feel legitimate to me.

1

karoman25 Redditor for 2 months. 3 days ago

Was surprised that so many came from Germany 🇩🇪

1

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1

Oh_its_that_asshole Antrim 4 days ago

No shit? People weren't using Coinbase to buy their bitcoins for darknet drugs were they?

2

cprxrk 4 days ago

You’d be surprised lol

1

Internet-Fair 4 days ago

It doesn’t surprise me that bitcoin is used for drug purchases. It surprises me that the UK police dwarf all other countries.

2

Oh_its_that_asshole Antrim 4 days ago

UK is up there with China in terms of how much it routinely uses surveillance on its own citizens.

1

4 2

9 4

Think-notlikedasheep Redditor for 1 months. 4 days ago

"Not your keys, not your crypto" posted by someone in 8...7...6...

1

Cryptodragonnz 4 days ago

With ordinary banks you don't even need this. Withdraw 20% of deposited funds and the bank will have no available funds left.

0

sudospectral 3 days ago

They'll use their assets to borrow money from up the chain to the discount window in order to satisfy those withdrawals. That bank isn't even balance sheet insolvent and the FDIC doesn't need to get involved. They just won't be able to loan money unless they get more deposits. All you've done is discover liquid and illiquid assets.

2

dgerard 4 days ago

wow, that would really suck if banks weren't insured against this specific thing

6

Cryptodragonnz 4 days ago

They literally aren't. They only hold a small percentage in assets of the actual deposit balances. For example, in Cypress a banking crisis resulted in the banks having to slash the balances of account holders so they could remain open.

0

Suishou 4 days ago

People here aren’t willing to dig into the dirty details behind the FDIC “guarantees”...the data is all there that shows it won’t insure people for the stated 250k when there is a major event.

0

happyscrappy IT Specialist 3 days ago

The "Full Faith and Credit" of the US Government is behind the FDIC. It is explicitly stated. https://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/4000-2660.html It essentially cannot fail. In the worst case the US would just print money to give to you. The existence of this backing basically means that they may never have to pay out because selling a bank to another bank at a discount requires less capital (up to and including none) than repaying lost money.

4

Cryptodragonnz 3 days ago

Why do people think I was only talking about US banks?

1

happyscrappy IT Specialist 3 days ago

I wasn't responding to you. I was responding to Suishou. And he said FDIC and impugned their guarantees. So my response was appropriate.

2

dgerard 4 days ago

>Cypress

14

devliegende 4 days ago

First prize for posting the most ignorant comment of the day.

6

azoundria2 4 days ago

It works just fine as it always has. You just need to wait for Roosevelt to increase the currency supply a bit.

1

aShittierShitTier4u 4 days ago

I just had to wonder, who will be the Terry Childs of the crypto world? Most would bet on Craig Wright, but I think he would crumble under pressure in a cell.

Childs sat in jail for years, refusing to divulge his password to a San Francisco government computer. He had related charges, but his refusal enhanced his sentence. I always thought I would gladly give the password up to get out of jail. Maybe Childs really took Henry Thoreau to heart.

1

james_pic 4 days ago

It's OK, the key holder has merely been arrested. I'm sure they'll get out eventually. It's not like they've died suddenly in India. It's a perfectly reasonable business continuity plan that if a single individual in your organisation is incapacitated, you just wait for them to return.

14

azoundria2 4 days ago

It might be OK, but is it OKEx?

1

0101111000101010 4 days ago

I mean it's not normal for people at banks to ever get arrested

4

meowmeow26 4 days ago

It's perfectly normal in Hong Kong for people to get arrested for no good reason. Not so normal elsewhere.

6

SnapshillBot 4 days ago

My business teacher laughed at me today for mentioning bitcoin :(

Snapshots:

this is perfectly normal, it happen... - archive.org, archive.today*

I am just a simple bot, not a moderator of this subreddit | bot subreddit | contact the maintainers

8

thchax Tin 4 days ago

Annndd this is the reason why no one should keep their crypto on exchanges.

1

SocialSuicideSquad 4 days ago

Ho boy.

1

nice2yz Bronze 4 days ago

Yup, this may get messy.

1

7 2

Think-notlikedasheep Redditor for 1 months. 5 days ago

Negative yielding debt always is more money for cronies.

1

walloon5 5 days ago

You sure you don't want to buy some negative yield debt?

They guarantee they won't go down in value as fast as other things

This is their new "number go down" strategy lol. Good "investment"!! /s

4

Kpenney 5 days ago

Oh yeah negative interest rate bonds are so sexy, I like to fill swimming pools up with them and dive in like scrooge mcduck and feel the paper cuts of the world debt all over my body as that's the only thing their really good for in any term./s

2

zaxbyc1A 5 days ago

that’s a picture...!

1

DetroitMotorShow Redditor for 2 months. 5 days ago

It has to be seen how long this manipulated cycle of negative rates can continue. The central banks have already destroyed most economies, and they have very perfectly goat a scapegoat in the form of COVID19 on which they will blame all their problems. The fact is most economies were in deep mess even before COVID19

3

Mark_Bear 5 days ago

To me, nothing shouts BROKEN FINANCIAL SYSTEM: ABANDON SHIP. ABANDON SHIP! more than negative interest rates.

10

whitslack 4 days ago

I can't understand why commodity money (gold, silver, bitcoin) hasn't mooned in the face of negative interest rates. I get that no one wants to sit on a pile of physical cash due to the logistics of that, but then why do they buy negative-yielding bonds and hold those when they could be buying and holding commodities that *aren't guaranteed* to lose value over time? The only thing I can figure is that they prefer a guaranteed loss that they can count on over a variable return that might be a gain or might be a loss.

3

Mark_Bear 4 days ago

Some institutional traders (retirement fund managers) are required to invest in bullshit. I mean, when the laws were created they made sense, but things have clearly changed. Also, some people believe that the negative rates will go even lower, driving the price of their bond up. If this is not mania, I don't know what is. Plus, what you said, known vs unknown loss.

2

whitslack 3 days ago

>Also, some people believe that the negative rates will go even lower, driving the price of their bond up. That's an interesting bet to make. Will the capital appreciation of your bonds outpace the interest you're paying on them? That bet gets harder and harder to win as interest rates go further and further negative, as winning the bet requires the prevailing interest rates on new bonds to continue falling at ever faster rates. I actually wonder whether the bond pricing mechanic even still works in a negative interest rate regime. Does the value of a bond that slowly loses you money go up when the only new bonds available for purchase would lose you money at a faster rate? I don't understand why a bond that loses you money has a positive price at all. Seems like you'd want to pay someone to take that garbage off your hands so you can stop bleeding out.

2

BigGaynk 5 days ago

i disagree, for them its working as intended, of course for us little people the consequences are very serious.

3

ArtigoQ 5 days ago

It was never intended to work in the long run. Either they never extrapolated out past the first decade or they knew EVENTUALLY, the debt would come due, but it would be someone else's problem by then.

5

Ovv_Topik 5 days ago

But what effect will significant (if not hyper) inflation of the US$ have on Bitcoins price?
I find it hard to get my head around this math.

0

UnorthodoxAlchemy Bronze 5 days ago

Take a look at the BTC charts in currencies that have already experienced hyper inflation like the Turkish lira. BTC is at an all time high vs the lira, so something like this on a smaller scale would be my guess.

1

kalashnikovkitty9420 Platinum | QC: BTC 112, CC 87 | BCH critic | ExchS 5 days ago

lol just means getting to 1million usd per bitcoins comes faster

1

Fxck Tin 5 days ago

They print more money, I buy more crypto

4

Robby16 Platinum | QC: CC 364, BTC 32 5 days ago

Btc* Crypto as in alts are gambling

0

AutoModerator 5 days ago

Bitcoin(BTC) Basic Info: Website - r/Bitcoin - Abstract - History - Exchanges - Wallets

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1

14 2

worldlyalien 1 ~ 2 years account age. 80 - 150 comment karma. 4 days ago

" • Attract and retain inventors and innovators"

"• Rapidly field inventions and innovations"

"• Reduce burdensome regulations, policies, and bureaucratic processes that inhibit innovation and industry growth"

yeah, right... I will believe it when I see it.

5

bookworm010101 Redditor for 6 months 5 days ago

yawn and he will lose

0

deekfu 5 days ago

Grumpy,old white men looking very serious.

2

ZmasterFlash69 Redditor for 6 months 4 days ago

Deekfu is clearly a racist! Old white men? Like George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Socrates, Aristotle, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Graham Bell, Colonel Sanders? Why even mention their race? Get over your racism sir!

1

HashMoose Tin 5 days ago

Too bad he won't listen to them :(

1

mooiboy534 5 days ago

Why do they always have to look so angry, they’re allowed to smile a bit you know

1

Not_a_salesman_ Redditor for 2 months. 5 days ago

Great news from the Trump administration!

1

addictiverat Gold | QC: BTC 20 5 days ago

Dare i say its the greatest news?

2

ReadItAlreadyReddit 5 days ago

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/National-Strategy-for-CET.pdf

This gives a more in depth look. I read the whole thing, but the bullet points are sufficient.

10

BritishTexan512 4 days ago

Thank you.

2

Snidrogen 5 days ago

It seems there could be a lot of use cases where blockchain alternatives become inherently lower bidders compared to existing contractors/solutions.

2

LateToTheCryptoParty Redditor for 2 months. 5 days ago

Any candidate talking about the benefits of crypto has my vote lol

2

Nonredneck Bronze 5 days ago

That’s not bad

4

meanathradon 5 days ago

The military will fight wars using XRP

14

skagg25 Redditor for 5 months 5 days ago

But that's only when and if gets to 10,000 per coin which I'm hoping for

2

PM_ME_UR_ROOM_VIEW Platinum | QC: BCH 110, CC 90 | NANO 11 | r/Androi 5 days ago

Chinese government is moving fast to piggyback on Blockchain tech. Other govs will be left behind if they don't adapt.

2

addictiverat Gold | QC: BTC 20 5 days ago

They already are left behind china has a working product and its already in use

3

penguinneinparis 5 days ago

We have working products too. Thank god none are government coins, I wouldn‘t touch that. Btw, did you know there are super strict currency controls in China and you‘re not allowed to exchange money freely. This digital yuan is a paper tiger. It‘s not going to be on any free exchanges, otherwise they‘d have to shut it down. It‘s apparently "live" but where can you trade it? I‘ve lived in China, happy to have gotten my money out when it was still easy.

2

pale_blue_dots Platinum | QC: CC 225, XLM 41 | IOTA 5 | r/Politic 5 days ago

Possibly the only rational thing I've heard from the Trump administration.

5

GloriousGibbons Gold | QC: CC 73, ADA 29 5 days ago

He'll probably still manage to mess it up

7

Wulkingdead Platinum | QC: ETH 106, CC 102, ICX 61 | TraderSub 5 days ago

Damn some of those guys look like they need a walking stick lol

4

CRCLLC 5 days ago

Need it removed.

1

bronkula Tin 5 days ago

I would imagine some of them do.

3

4 3 2

25 9

John Pfeffer - @jlppfeffer

RT @coinbase: Coinbase is beginning our search for at least two Bitcoin development grant recipients starting today. If you'd like to apply or nominate a Bitcoin core developer to be sponsored, read more here and fill out the form. https://t.co/2oGhfA9v6z

320 1489

Reuben Bramanathan - @bramanathan

RT @brian_armstrong: Excited to be supporting more Bitcoin protocol development. This is a great start, but hopefully we can expand this program over time. Thank you to @PeterMcCormack for the push on his podcast to get this over the line 🙏 https://t.co/T87b3bhEJn

35 416

Arjun Balaji - @arjunblj

RT @brian_armstrong: Excited to be supporting more Bitcoin protocol development. This is a great start, but hopefully we can expand this program over time. Thank you to @PeterMcCormack for the push on his podcast to get this over the line 🙏 https://t.co/T87b3bhEJn

19 234

Brian Armstrong - @brian_armstrong

Excited to be supporting more Bitcoin protocol development. This is a great start, but hopefully we can expand this program over time. Thank you to @PeterMcCormack for the push on his podcast to get this over the line 🙏 https://t.co/T87b3bhEJn

22 241

Eric Scrivner - @etscrivner

RT @coinbase: Coinbase is beginning our search for at least two Bitcoin development grant recipients starting today. If you'd like to apply or nominate a Bitcoin core developer to be sponsored, read more here and fill out the form. https://t.co/2oGhfA9v6z

163 791

Pierre Rochard - @pierre_rochard

RT @coinbase: Coinbase is beginning our search for at least two Bitcoin development grant recipients starting today. If you'd like to apply or nominate a Bitcoin core developer to be sponsored, read more here and fill out the form. https://t.co/2oGhfA9v6z

7 102

Steve Lee - @moneyball

RT @jack: This is great https://t.co/pYZFFGCI7a

0 7

Eric Meltzer - @wheatpond

Nice https://t.co/XAbUbsxklS

0 4

nic carter - @nic__carter

RT @coinbase: Coinbase is beginning our search for at least two Bitcoin development grant recipients starting today. If you'd like to apply or nominate a Bitcoin core developer to be sponsored, read more here and fill out the form. https://t.co/2oGhfA9v6z

45 234

brianddk 4 days ago

Bad

Bad people doing good things doesn't make those good thing bad.

This is great news. Free software is expensive to make, even if everyone volunteers. VPS instances for MAT testing. Web hosting for documentation. Certificate purchases for OS install binaries. Apple hardware to legally test or produce anything on that platform.

Would be great if an r/Electrum sponsorship would happen. I know lots of people would like to have an official release of the iPhone KIVY port. I'd imagine the Apple developer's license and need for Apple hardware are two limiting factors. Though they may just dislike Apple as well.

1

rustyBootstraps 4 days ago

no2x delete coinbase

1

sylsau 4 days ago

This is a good initiative on the part of Coinbase.

It's a little late, but as they say: better late than never.

0

Bitcoin_to_da_Moon 4 days ago

i pick LukeDashjr, that would be hilarious.

2

Lancer37 Gold | QC: DOGE 86 4 days ago

Funny how the best performing crypto had no ICO funding- though i suppose early mining helped raise funds for any devs that participated.

I hope coinbase is at least somewhat unbias... kinda doubtful but their support shouldn't be negative.

1

RonTurkey 4 days ago

Bout fucking time

0

bell2366 4 days ago

Although I recognise that core developers need an income stream, I'm very uncomfortable with the likes of Andreessen wielding influence with them via salaries/grants whatever they call it.

1

Cab000se 4 days ago

FIRST?!?

LOLOLOL

2

randbtcacct 5 days ago

https://blog.coinbase.com/what-happened-at-the-satoshi-roundtable-6c11a10d8cdf#.qaggpgms9

Few years ago they were quite content replacing all the bitcoin core devs

13

zv099 redditor for 3 weeks 5 days ago

I don't think the people picking on Coinbase realize just how large the group is/was that wanted to slightly raise the block size. I was one of them. I'm still not convinced the direction that happened was correct. I don't think super large blocks are correct either but with government crackdowns and all the attempts to suppress speech going on including ip bans, etc. perhaps it was best to keep blocks smaller. I don't know. I'd like to see more on this sub promoting Lightning and helping vendors set up Lightning.

All this to say, perhaps, like a lot of us, Coinbase is starting to come around and this is an admission/olive branch of sorts.

It is possible to glue a community back together so perhaps it should be viewed that way. Coinbase absolutely needs to start offering something with Lightning. That would be huge. There's nothing wrong with being wrong, even stubbornly wrong but you shouldn't try to take the legs off your opponent when it comes to things like this. Give Lightning a fair chance.

As far as surveillance/irs stuff goes, there isn't a single American bitcoin company that isn't doing it. You can't be connected to a US bank and not be forced to do what they tell you to do.

The only reason that these companies haven't been shut down is because the central bankers are criminals and they too need an escape plan when fiat collapses.

0

Supersecretsauceboss 5 days ago

Hate on coin base all you want but they’ve paved a road.

0

ZPM1 5 days ago

Might be good news, just as likely if the programmers all become captured, i.e. salaried employees, the projects might be more like, "well we only have funds to employ you one more year but just as a hypothetical see about how we could add a small value added tax to each transaction on the blockchain. We can use this 0.2% tax to fund all of your salaries and the tax rate will never ever change, really." Or, "I want you to look for ways to 'harmonize' BTC with Fedcoin and all the other Central bank coins. It is terribly important we program in a way to tie Bitcoins value directly to Fedcoin, at least until we have fully transitioned away from the outdated BTC."

2

cryptening 4 days ago

they can pay people to code whatever they want. It doesn't mean it will ever get merged.

1

mbrochh 5 days ago

Oh boy.. now we need to codereview twice as hard when these implants submit patches...

Fuck Armstrong.

3

MrRGnome 5 days ago

About time. This is the first step in a long journey to repair the relationship Coinbase has with the bitcoin community. Don't let it be the last.

4

B_ILL 5 days ago

Until they stop working with the IRS to track Bitcoins fuck them. https://www.coindesk.com/irs-enlists-coinbase-in-latest-crypto-tracing-deal

0

Lemons81 5 days ago

Reminds me of Microsoft funding SuSe Linux, now looks like crap and memory hogging distro.

5

cointastical 5 days ago

#DELETECOINBASE

Are you using a U2F device on your coinbase account?

No? Hmm... did you know you that starting right this very moment, and completed before you are done reading this comment reply, a hacker could do a SIM porting attack, and steal all your funds from Coinbase (yes, even your USD ... by buying bitcoin with it and withdrawing the BTC)?

https://blog.coinbase.com/safeguarding-against-phone-porting-9ac102d3a455

You would only know about it because the next time you go to use your phone you'll notice it has stopped working.

Yes, ... it's that easy for the thieves.

And that's not the only risk for your BTC even if Coinbase is an honest, competent exchange.

6

cointastical 5 days ago

Coinbase is not a friend to bitcoin:

https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1261779484203720706

10

ManyArtichoke 5 days ago

Definitely a PR move. Reminder that Coinbase is developing blockchain surveillance tools for the IRS and DEA

14

IVIurkyVVaters 5 days ago

Wait, I thought they were not going to take any political stances? Bitcoin at its core is political.

(HALF JOKE)

1

Satoshiman256 5 days ago

Right, in theory their development decisions could be influenced

1

onetimeonly1zwo3 Gold | QC: XRP 36, CC 31 4 days ago

Or even worse the team could actually make significant progress.

1

Satoshiman256 4 days ago

Relax

1

onetimeonly1zwo3 Gold | QC: XRP 36, CC 31 4 days ago

?

1

Satoshiman256 4 days ago

I'm just replying to his comment. I think its a good thing. Just saying that if they invest a lot of money into it they might want things done "their way"

1

onetimeonly1zwo3 Gold | QC: XRP 36, CC 31 4 days ago

But even when it is 'their way' it is 'more way' than 'no way' , amiright?

1

Satoshiman256 4 days ago

Haha, I suppose.

1

MoreTransliteration Tin 5 days ago

Excellent

2

elendir1 5 days ago

Not a good news. Newcomers don't know that Coinbase is the arch enemy of bitcoin. Remember the drama of 2017.

10

monoslim 5 days ago

Why are they the arch enemy?

2

cryptening 4 days ago

it's a shit coin casino and their business model is based on making people think they need to buy the new new shitcoin of the month, every month. people hodling bitcoin does not make them fees.

1

cointastical 5 days ago

Coinbase is not a friend to bitcoin: - https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1261779484203720706

7

monoslim 5 days ago

I see. Well they are an exchange after so they only make money on trades/transfers like all the rest.

2

ManyArtichoke 5 days ago

They're developing blockchain surveillance tools for the IRS and DEA.

7

monoslim 5 days ago

Isn't it auditable by design? These are probably tools that anyone can build for that purpose as well.

2

TacticalWolves 5 days ago

Isn’t this a good thing for Bitcoin future. If there is such a surveillance system then they cannot blame that Bitcoin is only used for illegal transactions etc etc

4

Jps300 5 days ago

Bitcoin will always be used for illegal transactions, just as the USD is and always has been.

4

NinjaDK 5 days ago

Coinbase hating Bitcoin maximalists right now
Jokes aside, really good news, and great to see Bitcoin developers being incentiviced to make significant contributions, unlike BCH which hardforks again because they aren't getting any funding, lol.

4

CollinEnstad Platinum | QC: BCH 177 | TraderSubs 12 5 days ago

Yeah that's just ABC that's leaving BCH cause they want money

1

uikhgfzdd 5 days ago

Great. So the what bitcoin did Podcast was a success!

15

warrchaser 5 days ago

I saw that episode! It was awesome

7

renepickhardt Lightning Network Expert 5 days ago

This a great step. Let's see when they will do lightning grants

27

Bitcoin_to_da_Moon 4 days ago

> Let's see when they will do lightning grants in 11 years?

2

Fxck Tin 5 days ago

This is really exciting!

2

5 5 7

Ash Egan - @AshAEgan

+https://t.co/Ee74rwWS9X ++https://t.co/Xc2OLkZEWS +https://t.co/WfWPEoxBtN +https://t.co/ubDdOlXvef +https://t.co/Zgtg8NqaVi

0 1

Vitalik "Not giving away ETH" Buterin - @VitalikButerin

RT @juanbenet: 🚀 Huge milestone for the thousands of people who built @Filecoin together - thank you! ❤️ I am extremely proud of the Filecoin community, the many teams of builders, miners, and users across the globe, persevering in their vision for a better internet. #FilecoinLiftoff https://t.co/RTJSUib5Ez

76 478

Chris Burniske - @cburniske

RT @juanbenet: 🚀 Huge milestone for the thousands of people who built @Filecoin together - thank you! ❤️ I am extremely proud of the Filecoin community, the many teams of builders, miners, and users across the globe, persevering in their vision for a better internet. #FilecoinLiftoff https://t.co/RTJSUib5Ez

44 247

Wong Joon Ian - @joonian

RT @juanbenet: 🚀 Huge milestone for the thousands of people who built @Filecoin together - thank you! ❤️ I am extremely proud of the Filecoin community, the many teams of builders, miners, and users across the globe, persevering in their vision for a better internet. #FilecoinLiftoff https://t.co/RTJSUib5Ez

40 186

Hunter Horsley - @HHorsley

RT @Filecoin: The Filecoin Network has passed epoch 148,888 🎉 — the rocket has lifted off 🚀 So far, the network is stable and community members are reporting successful operations #FilecoinLiftoff https://t.co/zxzc28D8ia

57 193

Laura Shin - @laurashin

RT @Filecoin: The Filecoin Network has passed epoch 148,888 🎉 — the rocket has lifted off 🚀 So far, the network is stable and community members are reporting successful operations #FilecoinLiftoff https://t.co/zxzc28D8ia

36 115

Tyler Winklevoss - @tylerwinklevoss

RT @Filecoin: The Filecoin Network has passed epoch 148,888 🎉 — the rocket has lifted off 🚀 So far, the network is stable and community members are reporting successful operations #FilecoinLiftoff https://t.co/zxzc28D8ia

35 115

vlmutolo - @vlmutolo 5 days ago

I think this is pretty cool. The basic idea is that Filecoin builds on top of the existing IPFS storage layer to add an incentive to provide storage to the global network.

If you're someone who follows cryptocurrencies, the first question you're probably asking is "what's their consensus algorithm?". The answer is "proof of storage". Assuming they've figured out the technical details (I haven't read their paper thoroughly yet), this seems like a decent idea. It avoids the massive power requirements of proof of work, and there's lots of unused storage out there in the world for people to offer for a price, and they can offer it at a very low power usage. Persistent storage doesn't actively require power.

As a back-of-the-envelope calculation, if you total up the storage capacity of every iPhone in the world, you'll probably reach something like 64000 petabytes [1] [2]. Backblaze, a fairly large cloud storage provider, has a total network size of around 500 petabytes [3]. Maybe S3 is a hundred times larger? Maybe? Still, it's good that the combined storage capacity of all the iPhones in the world alone can compete with the big storage providers. That gives me hope that there's at least the theoretical potential for actual decentralization, as opposed to with proof of work, which tends to favor a minority of people with large compute rigs. Normal people don't want to max out the chips in their phones and laptops 24/7, but maybe they wouldn't mind using some passive storage.

I'm not sure about how consistently people in Filecoin need to be connected to the network, but that could prove to be an issue.

Another thing to look at would be whether there's any way for a third party to see what data you're holding. This is an issue because you probably don't want to let random other people store whatever they want on your machine. Lots of that content could be illegal, and (IANAL) I'll bet the law can hold you accountable just for storing it.

[1]: https://kommandotech.com/statistics/how-many-iphones-have-be...

[2]: https://www.counterpointresearch.com/average-storage-capacit...

[3]: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/500-petabytes-and-counting/

CharlesDodgson - @CharlesDodgson 5 days ago

oh look, an unnecessarily complex and inefficient way to store data :(

coolspot - @coolspot 5 days ago

Has anyone calculated approximate annual storage price per GB?

RichardHeart - @RichardHeart 5 days ago

As blockchains are slow and inefficient databases, it's only reasonable to employ them where censorship resistance is required. If no one is trying to censor what you are doing, avoid blockchains. I believe torrents have shown their censorship resistance.

So if it's not for discovery or censorship resistance, what could it be for? Efficiency? Vertical integration of hard drives into the highest density 4u space is already open source. For instance 60 drives in 4u: https://www.backblaze.com/blog/open-source-data-storage-serv...

Backblaze and others also use vertical integration to get better prices from all vendors for the drives, connectivity, and they even use fancy parity systems to get redundancy across machines with minimal overhead. Distributed (horizontal) scaling loses to vertical integration.

So what are you left with? Yet another token, with a proof of storage instead of proof of hashing or proof of memory hard hashing, or proof of time locking (caveat, I founded a cryptocurrency based on that last one, for inflation only, consensus is still vanilla POW.) At least one or two "usuable" things came out of the billions wasted of 2017 ICO money... I guess.

teslaberry - @teslaberry 5 days ago

filecoin will be a useful protcol for independent warehouses of data, all in an effort to consolidate in a pool against the biggest players. it will NOT be for the 'masses' of people, except to the extent they enjoy donating a few dollars of their electricity every month to someone's file storeage for shits and giggles.

Show all comments on Hackernews

25 6

cryptolipto Redditor for 4 months. 5 days ago

Bitcoin has its use. And it’s gonna be gobbled up by companies as a hedge against inflation. Ethereum is what will lead to true industry disruption. Buy and hold both

1

JeremyLinForever stack sats, not debt 5 days ago

Bitcoin has basically solidified itself as a long term store of value that’s not going away any time soon. It’ll be the base layer of cryptocurrency, and ETH bending backwards to make wrapped BTC in time lock contracts proves just that.

As for Ethereum, it’s an open protocol that is used to make all types of altcoins. You just have to think of Bitcoin as money itself, and Ethereum is the equivalent of an exchange that lets people create other digital currencies on their protocol (stocks).

So you’re essentially at odds when you debate one over the other. On one hand, Bitcoin is hard capped at 21 million, and will never produce more. On the other hand, Ethereum doesn’t have a hard supply cap and will continually keep increasing as altcoins full the eco space. Do you choose to put your money on growing tech and hope that the supply increase of ETH will catch up with the demand? Or will people rather store their money in BTC that is deflationary and believe that it will only cause more scarcity and demand like other hard assets such as fine art, prime real estate, and the like?

2

frank__costello Platinum | QC: CC 109, ETH 16 5 days ago

> Ethereum doesn’t have a hard supply cap and will continually keep increasing as altcoins full the eco space Many Ethereans (myself included) think ETH will become more scarce than Bitcoin once EIP-1559 is implemented. Ethereum could potentially reach negative issuance. Of course, this is a big _if_. As of today, Bitcoin certainly has a stronger monetary policy.

0

JeremyLinForever stack sats, not debt 5 days ago

How does it reach negative issuance? Who will burn their tokens? I do think there is a place for Ethereum in the future. However, I do believe that the token is intended to be cheap so that it can run the vast networks of alts that use Ethereum as the base layer.

1

frank__costello Platinum | QC: CC 109, ETH 16 5 days ago

> How does it reach negative issuance? Who will burn their tokens? Transaction fees will be burned instead of paid to miners https://insights.deribit.com/market-research/analysis-of-eip-1559/ Filecoin (which launched today) has already implemented EIP-1559, so it will be an interesting case study.

0

haroldfonda Tin 5 days ago

He is right. Eth is btc on speed.

0

treemull93 Redditor for 4 months. 5 days ago

As much as ethereum has done for the space, I am ready for blockchain 3.0 (Polkadot/Cardano/etc). Upon these releases we will really see the crypto world propel forward.

1

The90sWereRad Bronze 5 days ago

I wonder when people will stop comparing these two juggernauts. They both serve different purposes.

2

robis87 5 days ago

welcome to the new reality old timer!

0

sentokoo Silver | QC: CC 27 5 days ago

Aww yiss the instant messaging of crypto

1

hottogo Gold | QC: CC 62 5 days ago

Very cool, imagine seeing this in 2015? The chairman of the CFTC is a fan of Ethereum!

1

Zerpling Bronze 5 days ago

Wait till he hears about BitConnect

4

SwapzoneIO Gold | QC: BTC 46, CC 19 5 days ago

He says, "If Bitcoin is Email then Ethereum is Internet!" He seems to be an ETH fan boy 👦

2

Skfandtfan1 Platinum | QC: CC 169 5 days ago

Yet all the articles and new are that institutions main bet is on btc.

Stack 1 BTC and 32 ETH and hope they both do another 100X.

3

monkeyhold99 Platinum | QC: BTC 150, CC 23 | TraderSubs 99 5 days ago

Lmao people are missing the point. Email is still around today. Everyone uses email. Bitcoin has already succeeded and will continue to be used. It’s found it’s niche, whereas Ethereum still has a LOT to prove

6

BoyScout22 Gold | QC: ETH 21 | TraderSubs 15 5 days ago

>Lmao people are missing the point. Email is still around today. Everyone uses email. Bitcoin has already succeeded and will continue to be used. but ethereum is already starting to swallow bitcoin. once eth 2.0 is battled-tested and secure, there is no reason for the bitcoin blockchain to exist due to its enormous power consumption and environmental impact.

0

monkeyhold99 Platinum | QC: BTC 150, CC 23 | TraderSubs 99 5 days ago

Lol so funny seeing people worry about “environmental impact” all of a sudden when literally everything you use in life has an environmental impact. When will people understand that energy these days is cheap and efficient? 😆

1

-TimeAndTide- Redditor for 2 months. 5 days ago

Bitcoin or ethereum, it will only matter if mass adoption by people occur.

1

sfultong Gold | QC: BTC 34, CC 29 | TraderSubs 34 5 days ago

How has Bitcoin succeeded?

0

mikkeller Gold | QC: ETH 60 | TraderSubs 53 5 days ago

A lot to prove, means a lot of room for growth, more than Bitcoin.

1

monkeyhold99 Platinum | QC: BTC 150, CC 23 | TraderSubs 99 5 days ago

That makes no sense at all

1

Skfandtfan1 Platinum | QC: CC 169 5 days ago

This non answer makes no fucking sense. I own both but Eth doesn't even have a hard cap yet and eth 2.0 when?

0

frank__costello Platinum | QC: CC 109, ETH 16 5 days ago

ETH has no hard cap because it prioritizes security. We'll see how Bitcoin does as it's security subsidies dry up. And gold has no hard cap either, hasn't stopped it from being valuable.

3

hyperedge Platinum | QC: BTC 114, CC 65 | ETH critic | Trade 5 days ago

>ETH has no hard cap because it prioritizes security. WAT?

1

Skfandtfan1 Platinum | QC: CC 169 5 days ago

All these posts smell like I'm super fucking bitter I missed out on bitcoin, Eth is still affordable I hope it goes 10k. I love the honesty even if I have to read between the lines. I want eth to do another 100X as well but at least lets be honest we are here for the money not the tech.

1

ethrevolution Platinum | QC: ETH 256, CC 120 | TraderSubs 241 5 days ago

Add to this that there's a very real possibility that the net issuance of ETH goes negative in the not-too-distant future and we have a perfect storm brewing. Curious to see what the 'no fixed supply' people will say when it does (go net negative)!

3

onlyonecoin 5 days ago

Could you explain the difference between the FED and ETH? One certainty, both can change the supply at will. The FED is at least honest about what they are doing.

3

frank__costello Platinum | QC: CC 109, ETH 16 5 days ago

FED: prints money whenever the chairman want ETH & BTC: prints money according to a socially-agreed-upon monetary policy BTC social contract: Issuance will decrease to 0 ETH social contract: Issuance will never increase

1

hyperedge Platinum | QC: BTC 114, CC 65 | ETH critic | Trade 5 days ago

Do you have any idea how many times the max amount of ETH has changed over the years? Bitcoins monetary policy has been set in stone since inception. Ethereum "monetary policy" if you can even call it that has been all over the board constantly changing.

2

ethrevolution Platinum | QC: ETH 256, CC 120 | TraderSubs 241 5 days ago

BTC miners could “change the supply at will” just as much as Ethereum miners can. Stop spreading misinformation please. Having a different monetary policy (minimal viable issuance vs. hard cap and diminishing block subsidy) isn’t a white/black comparison, it’s just ... different.

1

hodlmax 5 days ago

The miners could try. The rules are not respected here: [https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/cbxekm/bitmain\_lost\_150000\_due\_to\_invalid\_block/](https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/cbxekm/bitmain_lost_150000_due_to_invalid_block/) You are decentralized, or you are not. When you are decentralized the miners have no say. The is the difference between BTC and ETH. BTC is decentralized. ETH is not, e.g.: EIP-1559, the leader decides and they follow.

2

ethrevolution Platinum | QC: ETH 256, CC 120 | TraderSubs 241 5 days ago

You’re so wrong it hurts. The rules are dictated by majority hashpower, so if most miners agree to a rule change, it *will* pass. This is the same for Ethereum but because the majority believes in the progress set forth by the devs, it is “voted in”. Once PoS goes live, it’s even more interesting: a failed attempt of takeover will slash your stake, this is akin to the miner hardware burning down, thus being unable to try again. In Bitcoin, a failed attempt costs “only” the missed miner income and a malicious actor can keep trying.

3

hyperedge Platinum | QC: BTC 114, CC 65 | ETH critic | Trade 5 days ago

>You’re so wrong it hurts. The rules are dictated by majority hashpower, so if most miners agree to a rule change, it > >will pass. I've explained this to you already in another post but you refuse to educate yourself. Nodes control Bitcoin not miners. Yes miners and hashpower have the vote but they don't have all the control. If miners want to make a change that the nodes don't want they can simply ignore any blocks from those miners and not propagate them. By doing this the miners could lose out on their block rewards. This is what happened in 2017 when the miners tried to take over the network. Nodes threatened to blacklist miners and they gave up.

4

hodlmax 5 days ago

You never took the time to look at the past. You should try to understand how the incentives of the Bitcoin white paper operate. This is real decentralization, the miners have no say. The full nodes verify and discard invalid blocks: [https://twitter.com/pierre\_rochard/status/952585351775875073](https://twitter.com/pierre_rochard/status/952585351775875073) >Until your altcoin successfully defeats a coordinated attack like NYA/S2X, with 90% of the hashrate and major businesses trying to force a hard fork, its immutability is untested and its monetary policy is suspect. > >Bitcoin has earned its keep, its immutability is beyond question  This was tested with the DAO on Ethereum, we all know how it ends. PoS is incompatible with decentralization: [https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf](https://download.wpsoftware.net/bitcoin/pos.pdf)

3

Buttoshi Gold | QC: BTC 75, CC 41 | r/Buttcoin 6 5 days ago

If bitcoin is internet, ethereum is aol.

6

ebaley Platinum | QC: BTC 774 | BCH critic 5 days ago

Jackass.

2

lomosaur Platinum | QC: CC 73, XLM 37 5 days ago

that'd be some slow email

5

Cryptoguruboss Gold | QC: BTC 357 | BCH critic 5 days ago

The only problem is bitcoin is the internet of blockchain..

1

Jake123194 Platinum | QC: CC 216, XRP 117, ETH 60 | TraderSub 5 days ago

Using a dial up connection.

0

Cryptoguruboss Gold | QC: BTC 357 | BCH critic 5 days ago

Yes till it transitions to fibreoptic in 30 years same as internet

6

ethrevolution Platinum | QC: ETH 256, CC 120 | TraderSubs 241 5 days ago

internet has always been a work-in-progress, whereas Bitcoin has somehow stalled innovation and just remains at the status quo.

0

Cryptoguruboss Gold | QC: BTC 357 | BCH critic 5 days ago

Lol. Still no 1. Fundamentals are bitches my friend. Hit me up when someone flippens it and I will eat my words. Year 27171735181816 may be

4

FluffyGlass Tin 5 days ago

..another clueless Rube Goldberg machines’ connoisseur.

0

Odbdb 6 days ago

Hellooo! The reason CFTC likes ether is because it had a single point of control. Gas prices.

0

cryptening 5 days ago

it also has people in charge for easy coercion.

3

drunkshihtzu2 6 days ago

Eth is growing. Bitcoin is not keeping up

8

ebaley Platinum | QC: BTC 774 | BCH critic 5 days ago

The gas fees are certainly up.

0

ethrevolution Platinum | QC: ETH 256, CC 120 | TraderSubs 241 5 days ago

Would you still think this is a negative after a few more halving, when the block subsidy runs *really* thin and Bitcoin's security will be dependant on Tx fees? I prefer a network that's working towards security being independent of the fees paid, way less things that can go wrong. But you do you!

0

Jake123194 Platinum | QC: CC 216, XRP 117, ETH 60 | TraderSub 5 days ago

At least developers are actively working on fixing that.

2

ebaley Platinum | QC: BTC 774 | BCH critic 5 days ago

By scrapping Ethereum as it is.

4

Jake123194 Platinum | QC: CC 216, XRP 117, ETH 60 | TraderSub 5 days ago

Its called improvements, stagnating is not the way forward otherwise we'd all still use horses and carts to get around.

4

ebaley Platinum | QC: BTC 774 | BCH critic 5 days ago

It's 5 years old. It can't be obsolete already. TCP/IP is decades old.

6

Jake123194 Platinum | QC: CC 216, XRP 117, ETH 60 | TraderSub 5 days ago

So innovation has to move at a set pace? Who defines what the pace should be? If we look back at technological advancement you can see that it has sped up.

1

ebaley Platinum | QC: BTC 774 | BCH critic 5 days ago

This is money. There has to be some stability. You can't keep screwing around with the protocol.

4

Jake123194 Platinum | QC: CC 216, XRP 117, ETH 60 | TraderSub 5 days ago

So you just stick with your first attempt then? Guess we should have stuck with bartering.

2

ebaley Platinum | QC: BTC 774 | BCH critic 5 days ago

Obviously they fucked up with the first Ethereum.

1

wmagicstream 5 days ago

1,000,000 developers merging whatever they want on the base layer. This sound great!

6

BankBailout Tin 6 days ago

Welcome to the future baby, you joined fashionably late, but early enough.

8

taquitoxz86 Bronze 6 days ago

bitcoin is dead and will get smashed by powerful eth, all in eth now!!

0

ebaley Platinum | QC: BTC 774 | BCH critic 5 days ago

Prepare to get rekt.

11

salil19 Tin 6 days ago

"If bitcoin is email ethereum is telephonic service"

0

Chyeadeed Gold 6 days ago

People are finally figuring it out.

26

d_goddard XMR & XRP 6 days ago

Two guesses, would be pleased to be proved wrong:

He hasn't seen how poorly it scales
He's never written a "Hello, World" contract in Solidity

0

Chyeadeed Gold 6 days ago

1. Multiple layer 2 implementations are scaling. 2. Why would someone have to know how to program to be impressed by something? That is a pointless criticism.

6

TheGreatCryptopo H0DL 4 LYFE 6 days ago

This guy gets it, he goes top of the enthusiasm class.

2

Taykeshi Gold | QC: CC 87 | BCH critic 5 days ago

you mean ethtusiasm?

2

3 3

7 3

PM_BITCOIN_AND_BOOBS 11 months ago

Sounds like Ripple for China.

1

mnbuckeye87 Redditor for more than 1 year 11 months ago

How would the technicals work on this if vechain is being used in any way? They stated that this is a centralized, private blockhain, I just can't see them trusting their national currency with anyone but themselves.

8

Mellowde Redditor for more than 1 year 11 months ago

This will not be on VeChain, VeChain will almost certainly be integrated in some way though. VET is key infrastructure which will tie into the DCEP.

14

cryptofest 11 months ago

Important warning from the article: “Mere hours after DCEP has been announced, various (potentially scam) Chinese exchanges have listed IOUs or knock-offs clones of DCEP. It’s important to know that DCEP is currently only distributed to banks working with the PBoC and will not be available for the public. If you want to find out what are reputable exchanges, check out our top cryptocurrency exchanges guide. It is strongly recommended NOT to trade DCEP until it is officially released as there is no guarantee exchanges have access to the digital currency.”

Be vigilant!

2

combatdev 11 months ago

Not trusting this.

2

gubertinus Redditor for more than 1 year 11 months ago

Holy.... the next big thing for Vechain is a stable or settlement coin. If the rumors are true, fasten your seatbelts..

3

burn__the__witch Redditor for more than 1 year 11 months ago

Genuinely interested in where you’ve seen this rumor? Can’t find it anywhere.

4

gubertinus Redditor for more than 1 year 11 months ago

Ok just saw it now but the people already answered. Thanks everyone for the quick response.

3

Smocking_Gun Redditor for more than 1 year 11 months ago

It was stated in the live ama. It's over 6 hours of video so I don't feel like parsing through it to send you an exact timestamp. People reacted to it on twitter as well. Here is such an example: https://twitter.com/bsc44_x/status/1145266498891472896?lang=en

11

FantasticFourSkin Redditor for more than 1 year 11 months ago

I forget if it was a tweet or at a live event, but Sunny stated this

3

JkUncovered Redditor for more than 1 year 11 months ago

[Settlement coin will be the next big thing for VeChain.](https://medium.com/@vechainofficial/top-10-most-asked-topics-during-the-vechain-ama-marathon-45a4bc9c2a46)

12

burn__the__witch Redditor for more than 1 year 11 months ago

There it is!

4

Casartelli Redditor for more than 1 year 11 months ago

Wait. Where is Vechain ;)

13

sevletor Redditor for more than 1 year 11 months ago

Powering DCEP. Where did u think it was? 😉

2

rBitcoinMod 11 months ago

Your submission has been flagged for removal because it is considered off topic for the Bitcoin subreddit.

^^I ^^am ^^a ^^bot ^^and ^^cannot ^^respond. ^^Please ^^contact ^^/r/Bitcoin ^^moderators ^^directly ^^via ^^mod ^^mail ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^questions.

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sos755 Platinum | QC: BTC 493, BCH 185, CC 116 | MiningSu 6 days ago

What many people don't realize is that over the last several years, there are people that have been generating billions of private keys from movies, literature, music, and quotations, etc. so that if anyone ever happens to use one of them, these people can immediately take the funds.

1

thearmthearm 1 week ago

This article is really sneaky. It doesn't fully explain what a brain wallet is and so it seems as if they are talking about cracking the 12 or 24 seed words plus your passphrase which you took from your favourite book.

2

_o__0_ Platinum | QC: CC 982 | VET 5 1 week ago

What a great experiment!
Thanks for posting.
It reminds of the guy whos key was posted accidentally in some files, and a tx happened seconds after the upload.
Imo, its evidence of some bad shit on the adoption-horizon. Gonna be a bumpy road with bots this nasty patrolling.

2

Tidus17 Tin 1 week ago

It's not an issue unique to crypto: there are a lot of people using very easily hackable passwords. Not to even mention social engineering...

0

BankBailout Tin 1 week ago

There are tons of bots continually doing this. Even if you use a brain-wallet with the hash of one recent block it WILL get swept away.

2

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1

smoothID redditor for 3 months 1 week ago

I had a few brainwallets that held ridiculous amounts at today's price level. Nothing was taken. But I also didn't create them using dumb methods. Brainwallets still work fine. Though I wouldn't recommend it for most users.

5

zappadoing 6 days ago

I created a bunch of brainwallet honeypots for science-fun and most of them are still not taken yet. none of the keys are taken out of books or existing text, but the keys are hidden in plain sight. one got taken after 3 years - the key was published in plain text as html-title of a webage - an other was plain text in the bitcoin-blockchain. took also 2years to be taken.

1

KalEll66 1 week ago

This article is deceiving. 12 random seed words are enough. A passphrase added is significantly more.

3

never_safe_for_life 1 week ago

a more secure way of storing coins could be to email yourself an encrypted backup of your private key

So where do you store the key to this encryption? Encypt it and email it to yourself?

I suppose at this level you could use a "brainwallet" e.g. easily memorized seed phrase. To serve as the encryption key for your totally random wallet address.

5

zomgitsduke 1 week ago

Write a script that checks the wallet for funds every second. Sweep keys once amount > 0.

Honestly, could be a pretty low powered device just sitting there trying to check wallet balances over and over again. Could probably run that script on a desktop fr 2010 and just leave it plugged in forever haha.

1

pegg7 redditor for 3 months 1 week ago

works better on a modern device, when you got a large list

1

chepas_moi redditor for 4 weeks 6 days ago

The size of the list doesn't matter when you're using the right data structures. Lists are are your friends for set inclusion operations ;)

0

fresheneesz 1 week ago

Brain wallets are well known to be a badg idea for many many many reasons including that it encourages non random pass phrases and human memories suck. Unless you're trying to get passed Kim Jong Un's blood riders, you probably don't need to even consider using a brain wallet. Get a hardware wallet and securely store your backup seed in a safe. More info

3

operationco redditor for 2 weeks 1 week ago

> Brain wallets are well known to be a bag idea For all the bagholders?

1

Bitcoin_to_da_Moon 1 week ago

The network is robust in its unstructured simplicity

this is poetry

4

pegg7 redditor for 3 months 1 week ago

I love it!
When is the next round of this game? Larger amounts please.
EDIT: if someone has a good list of phrases - PM me for some brainstorming. Got the bot already.

2

nyaaaa 1 week ago

Next? Its running.. > Around a year ago, I conducted a similar experiment, where funds were sent to addresses generated by a reasonably obvious pattern deep inside some of the world’s best selling novels. These funds are still sitting in the blockchain today and have not been stolen.

3

pegg7 redditor for 3 months 1 week ago

Not in my list :( That's why I need to collaborate with someone on the list.

2

xboox 1 week ago

Where to convert text to private key?
For testing...

1

operationco redditor for 2 weeks 1 week ago

https://bitaddress.org was (one of) the first and most trusted, I think. Save it and run it offline, of course.

1

fijiMath 1 week ago

[https://brainwalletx.github.io/](https://brainwalletx.github.io/)  [https://brainwallet.io/](https://brainwallet.io/)

3

Thrgd456 1 week ago

Any way to gauge how profitable a sweeping operation would be?

3

badasimo 1 week ago

I may be missing something, but it may be possible to pre-generate a list of common phrases and then just monitor the blockchain for their hashes. That's how the 0.67 seconds one probably worked. So not very expensive, just have to run a node and send each address to a script which will check the list.

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satoshi_yoshi 1 week ago

>That's how the 0.67 seconds one probably worked. That's how they all worked. It's not like they could look at a Bitcoin address and then try to work backwards from there. It's just that there are many people out there doing this, some move faster than others to sweep the funds, and they all have different prepared lists of public addresses that they have the ability to spend.

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[deleted] 1 week ago

[deleted]

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pegg7 redditor for 3 months 1 week ago

Right, coding the bot (got this done) + amassing the list (tbd).

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ProbablyFullOfShit 1 week ago

I think the most expensive part would be that your node needs to be faster than everyone else that's doing the same thing.

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igadjeed 1 week ago

The literature quotes are all first words from novels. The Satoshi quote is from the conclusion chapter of the white paper, near the end, which is why it took longer to snipe

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100xer 1 week ago

That's the wrong method. Pick any phrase for a password, add a salt (another unrelated word), and hash it one trillion times.

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MarkPapermaster 1 week ago

Just use normal trusted Bitcoin software to generate (on a offline computer) a 12 word seed. Copy paste some of the addresses to a thumb drive and then memorize the 12 words. (Now wipe the offline PC) Not using enough entropy for a bitcoin privkey (by coming up with something yourself) means the funds will eventually get lost no matter how clever you think you are. This method is the only safe way of getting a brainwallet.

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tituspus redditor for 1 week 1 week ago

Better than using "trusted" bitcoin software to generate the seed is to rely solely on general random number generator, you can write your own seed generator on top of general RNG (which everything including https, ssl, ssh depends on) in an hour and don't need to trust some rando software. That is, using an existing general RNG, but it's better to write the glue code to make a valid seed is yourself - it's less time consuming than auditing existing implementations. And yeah do all this on an offline computer, you want probably an older one without wife and run linux/*bsd to be safe.

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satoshi_yoshi 1 week ago

Why would anybody do all this versus just rolling some dice a bunch of times to generate a 12 word seed phrase? There are so many hassles and so many different things that can go wrong.

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tituspus redditor for 1 week 6 days ago

It's not as much hassle as it sounds, take an old laptop boot live linux and run one script (to generate valid seed phrase on top of RNG is few lines of code).

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MarkPapermaster 6 days ago

Diceware wordlist and HD wallet wordlist are not the same. If you create 12 diceward words your HD wallet won't accept it when you import it.

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operationco redditor for 2 weeks 1 week ago

> you want probably an older one without wife Without wife I'd probably want a younger one.

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spe59436-bcaoo 1 week ago

> Pick any phrase for a password, add a salt Use the seed phrase, remember it using memory palace, and let the wallet deal with salt

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fresheneesz 1 week ago

Security by obscurity dude. Just don't use a brain wallet. Non random seeds are incredibly insecure.

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exab 6 days ago

That's not security by obscurity. Hashing a password a lot of times is effectively a Password Based Key Derivation Function (PBKDF) and should be secure if the hash function is secure. Admittedly, a well vetted dedicated PBKDF would be more secure, but that solution should work, too.

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fresheneesz 6 days ago

> Hashing a password a lot of times is effectively a Password Based Key Derivation Function (PBKDF) Yes indeed. But a KDF doesn't make a non-random password secure. What is security by obscurity about it is that the KDF would be non-standard. If it is standard, then it can only make a secure password more secure. If the funds were stolen in 0.67 seconds, they might last a few minutes instead.

1

100xer 1 week ago

A brain wallet is not for everyday bitcoin storage.

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fresheneesz 1 week ago

I agree. It can be useful if you need to access bitcoin after going through draconian searches by authoritarian governments. Trying to keep it in memory for any length of time tho is so risky its probably not worth it for anyone.

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IKnowWhoYouAreGuy 1 week ago

Anagram a phrase and swap out letters for numbers or special characters, then reverse it and add capitalization to indicate your favorite prime in binary * IknowWhoYouAreGuy * IKWYAG * 1kwY46 * 64Ykw1 ... * ^4ykW1! but, you know, with more words in the phrase

0

Youwinredditand redditor for 2 weeks 6 days ago

The thing to remember about these approaches is the method becomes a part of your password. And while using tricks like this may seem clever, they're less secure and more difficult to remember than other methods. Generally speaking a hardware wallet is going to be the most secure approach. But if you insist on using a brain wallet keep the following in mind: 1. Hashes are your friend and you don't necessarily need to keep the hashing count a secret. With a high enough rehash count you'll slow down attempts to brute force your password. 2. Some aspect of your password should be information you've never shared and not inspired by anything you've seen in the world. It doesn't have to be substantial but you can't ever share this information or enter it into a compromised system. 3. Combined with the concepts above you can add in phrases or information that someone might guess. This information should be substantial but also easy to remember. Again, using a seed you come up with is generally a bad idea but you're less likely to forget it or get it stolen if you keep the above rules in mind.

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dealbuddy 1 week ago

I was going to use “this is a test of the emergency broadcast system” until I read this a few years ago

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