Token Daily

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svanapps 3 months ago

r/Bitcoin 📰 r/BitcoinBeginners 📰 r/CryptoMarkets 📰 r/CryptoCurrency 📰 r/crypto 📰 r/CryptoToFuture

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Remora_101 3 months ago

If you read this without drinking water you will die of thirst...

BTCs energy is wasted, because the coin is useless. A crippled coin that cannot scale.

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tatsopap Platinum | QC: CC 150 3 months ago

Of course it is dissmisable when compared to the industry energy usage, or cars we drive, etc

it's just another way of FUD-ing

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irfiisme Platinum | QC: CC 568 3 months ago

Energy usage fud is lame at this point.

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Living-Ad1944 Platinum | 6 months old | QC: CC 82 3 months ago

Do you happen to have a summary of this?

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Bakaon 3 months ago

TL;DR: if you compare Bitcoin to singular entities the energy it consumes seems huge but compared to the global energy consumption it barely makes 0.1% of the total. Also for a network that hosts several hundred million users they claim it's very efficient and also claim the energy it consumes would be otherwise wasted.

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ac13332 Tin | r/WSB 50 3 months ago

Oh right, so the arguments bullshit then.

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WestBankFireman Platinum | QC: CC 581, XMR 21 | MiningSubs 103 3 months ago

Fuck clickbait

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BTCMinerBoss 3 months ago

Didn't even read it did ya? Or were the stats too difficult to comprehend?

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WestBankFireman Platinum | QC: CC 581, XMR 21 | MiningSubs 103 3 months ago

It's a matter of principle. If you cant post the content, it isn't worth reading.

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BTCMinerBoss 3 months ago

Thats the dumbest shit I ever read. Guess you don't understand how link posting works? Lazy man. Just lazy.

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KathrynBernardoGanda Platinum | QC: CC 589 3 months ago

A lot of things are far worse than Bitcoin in regards to energy usage.

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Numerous_Sport_2774 Platinum | QC: CC 615 3 months ago

Yeah it’s BS crypto is always in the spotlight

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ac13332 Tin | r/WSB 50 3 months ago

No it's not.

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forthecustard Platinum | QC: CC 253 3 months ago

A lot of problems are worse than other problems but all problems are problems.

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[deleted] 3 months ago

Like gold mining.

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a_square_peg - @a_square_peg 3 months ago

There is something very dishonest about saying that a protocol where a single electronic transaction takes more than a month's worth of electricity of a US household isn't a problem.

Peritract - @Peritract 3 months ago

Proof of work is wasteful and inefficient. Regardless of scale, that's a problem.

We don't have oceans of free, sustainable energy available. Wasting 0.1% of global consumption (a figure which sounds small in comparison, but still represents a huge amount) when other solutions exist is irresponsible.

mrpopo - @mrpopo 3 months ago

Bitcoin has some arguably valid use cases like empowering online markets for drugs, porn, and illicit stuff. It is also an interesting way out for countries with a failed economic system, like Nigeria or Venezuela as explained in the article.

Outside of that, no. We have more efficient means of payment. And that means of payment is tied to a government that is democratically elected (for most of the biggest currencies, at least). If you are not happy with the government's economic policy, fix the government.

eesmith - @eesmith 3 months ago

> That’s for a network with 100+ million estimated users.

User is such a wishy-washy term. I believe that number includes those who have a Bitcoin wallet and haven't touched it in years, perhaps because investing or saving is a form of use.

Facebook has nearly 3 billion active monthly users. https://www.statista.com/statistics/264810/number-of-monthly... and uses 5 TWh https://www.statista.com/statistics/580087/energy-use-of-fac... .

So, at least 30x the number of users, supported with 3-4% of the power.

Or, American Christmas lights account for 6 TWh - https://www.brainerddispatch.com/business/technology/4533463... - also with 100+ million estimated users.

Thus, it seems cherry-picking to say "From that list, Bitcoin’s energy usage is the closest to that of the cruise industry’s energy usage, but bitcoins are used by more people, and the network scales far better", when that list includes Facebook and Christmas lights, both used by more people and with better scaling.

Especially since cruise ships are notorious for how much pollution they generate. Eg, https://www.geekyexplorer.com/cruise-ship-pollution/ and https://en.nabu.de/topics/traffic/cruiseships.html .

So, the point seems to be that Bitcoin isn't quite as bad as one of the most polluting forms of travel? Great.

> If Bitcoin did indeed have serious energy scaling problems, it would eventually fail against competitors in the private marketplace by not offering enough utility for its energy consumption.

The "private marketplace" does not include externalized costs, like pollution.

How long is "eventually"? If the network effect is large then it may take a very long time. Therefore, the lack of failure to date is not the same as evidence that Bitcoin doesn't have serious energy scaling problems.

> we should also consider the details for how it uses energy and the types of energy it uses.

The key question is the amount of pollution generated, including CO2. Not "energy". If it were fossil-free, this wouldn't be an issue, IMO.

So, how long until BitCoin is fossil-free?

The author only says the amount of fossil-free sources is increasing.

> As a result, bitcoin miners seek out inefficiencies around the world where electricity is being underutilized and wasted.

Did you note the slight-of-hand? Earlier the author compared Bitcoin power use to world-wide power use. Now it switched to "where electricity is being underutilized and wasted", as if the electricity already existed, and would have been generated anyway.

I point this out because of stories like https://grist.org/technology/bitcoin-greenidge-seneca-lake-c... , where a fossil-fuel power plant switched to Bitcoin mining because there wasn't enough local power needs to be profitable.

If the plant were instead shut down, would it be "underutilized and wasted"?

Only to profit-seekers who want to extract every last cent, and let someone else pay for the damage once the approach eventually fails.

Show all comments on Hackernews

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cdnkevin Silver | QC: CC 88 | WSB 34 | r/Politics 14 4 days ago

Purpose Investments already has 4-5 crypto ETFs.

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EpicHasAIDS Platinum | QC: CC 614 4 days ago

They just announced 3 new actively managed funds.

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wanderingwomensitems Bronze | WSB 162 4 days ago

More and more reasons to loose that us passport….

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EpicHasAIDS Platinum | QC: CC 614 4 days ago

Pssst. Some American brokerages can buy and sell on Toronto.

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wanderingwomensitems Bronze | WSB 162 4 days ago

🤫

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JJAnol Tin 4 days ago

SEC got no clue on what to do. The dilly dallying is dizzying. USA is at the forefront in crypto arena but may soon lose the advantage because of regulation or non of it.

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Dux0r Platinum | QC: CC 555 4 days ago

Good shout- waiting for the SEC would mean you'd be dead before you made any money.

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partymsl Platinum | QC: CC 130 4 days ago

Definitely.

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wodykody Bronze | QC: CC 19 4 days ago

There are already spot etf's in Canada. This is just a reposted none event

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EpicHasAIDS Platinum | QC: CC 614 4 days ago

Exactly. And the SEC has precisely nothing to do with Canada. The more interesting part of the Fidelity is that their Fidelity Clearing Canada division is also opening up business to **custody** crypto.

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coinfeeds-bot Approved CC Bot 4 days ago

tldr; Fidelity Investments will be launching its spot Bitcoin ETF in Canada this week, according to Eric Balchunas, Senior ETF Analysts at Bloomberg, who broke the news on Twitter. The fund will obtain Bitcoin directly, as opposed to acquiring it through a derivative instrument, like futures-based ETFs do. Earlier this year, the SEC approved three Bitcoin futures

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

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Dnumasen Tin 4 days ago

Nice! Hope us. Will get proper ETF soon too

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abcoathup 3 days ago

This was posted already, and as we want to avoid duplicates, the post has been removed.

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svanapps 4 days ago

Thank this post to u/front-equal 🙏💙

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Aggressive_Position2 4 days ago

ETH is a playground for the whales..while retails can do nothing but park their coins. 😭

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Perleflamme 4 days ago

I don't consider myself a whale, yet I don't need to park my coins. Just use the L2s. Dydx is on an L2. Uniswap too.

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QuizureII Bull:Ethereum: 4 days ago

Time to move unto L2 solutions guys! Let the whales have L2, they are unbothered.

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Kilv3r Gold | QC: CC 74 | WSB 16 | r/Investing 18 4 days ago

2022 is the year of ETH, we will see good things!

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FutureBoatinAccident Platinum | 2 months old | QC: CC 181 4 days ago

I don't mind a forced hold of ETH

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robeewankenobee Platinum | QC: CC 318, ADA 209, ALGO 24 | NANO 14 4 days ago

No fucking way ...

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Crypto_Malik Platinum | QC: CC 338 4 days ago

Whales are everywhere

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archaeas Bronze 4 days ago

I don't see this changing until we get some serious scaling solutions adopted. Luckily, we're on the cusp of this becoming a reality. zkRollups left and right competing to get to market first. The majority of altcoins in my portfolio are in anticipation for the imminent Rollup boom on Ethereum layer 2.

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EthTraderCommunity 4 days ago

Tip this post.

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GoTheFckBack 4 days ago

thankfully retail is able to use one of many L2 rollup solutions https://l2fees.info

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SolidusViper 4 days ago

How will retail get their ERC20 assets off an exchange, and into the L2 rollup without paying L1 gas fees?

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Mathje 4 days ago

Exchanges will support direct withdrawals to L2's, just like they support all different L1's right now. Crypto.com already does this, and I think Binance is very close to supporting Arbitrum. Many other exchanges have signalled they will support L2. Some exchanges also support Polygon, and you can hop from Polygon to several L2's.

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GoTheFckBack 4 days ago

by supporting exchanges that allow doing that, like Crypto.com which allows direct withdrawals to Arbitrum

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swap_catz 4 days ago

Coinbase really needs to get their shit together at this point. I had no idea Crypto.com has Arbitrum ready to go.

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Wooble23 3 days ago

I remember seeing some Twitter stream that Dorsey was doing to help the Gaza strip. And of course it was all about how bitcoin can save the Gaza strip. Of fucking course. These guys are so high off their own shit.

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Flashphotoe 3 days ago

I think we easily have another 10 years of this bullshit

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TheBlackUnicorn 4 days ago

Jack Dorsey quitting Twitter to spend more time with his blockchain.

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junk_mail_haver 4 days ago

Jack Dorsey looks Satanic, evoking the last levels of hell and this website is how it looks like.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

To me, Jack Dorsey looks like the unrealistic, Hollywood version of someone who has been shipwrecked on an island for years. He changes his look a lot, but each time he still looks like a different director's approach to the concept.

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nacholicious 4 days ago

"Application error: a client-side exception has occurred (developer guidance)."

Wow much impressive

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joahw 4 days ago

Sounds like you just got Blocked (tm)

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Ok-Cauliflower7356 4 days ago

I find it pretty hilarious, that Dorsey's CashApp from Square shuts down your account if you transfer too much BTC out to external wallets https://www.reddit.com/r/CashApp/comments/oy0bfr/psa_using_cash_app_for_btc/

They only want you to HODL it on CashApp, not actually use the blockchain.

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ross_st 4 days ago

Stripe will be pleased. Their biggest competitor diluting their brand for no clear reason? Very good.

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fragglet 4 days ago

Blocked and reported.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

~~You obviously can't read this if you really blocked me, but I'm not spamming this crap. I'm just pointing it out. It's not my fault if you've never heard of any of the proper nouns in the title.~~ Square following Facebook in destroying its brand is noteworthy news. I can't wait to see if another big tech company follows.

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fragglet 4 days ago

It was a joke on the new company name...

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

Ah... and I guess "Block" is a uniquely bad name for a payments processing company. Because what you really want is your payments to be Blocked™.

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fragglet 4 days ago

It does seem like a startlingly short-sighted decision. But then again the website gives the impression that the whole thing may have been a crazy idea dreamed up during a week long acid trip

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The_Probes 4 days ago

>during a week long acid trip My money is more on a half decade meth binge myself. I've seen people who look and act like he does before, and there's invariably a glass pipe in their shit somewhere.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

This is the kind of magic that only darknet markets can enable. Bullish.

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bakutogames 4 days ago

Annndddd I just sold all my shares.

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MarkOates 4 days ago

I guess Tesseract is next?

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eliquy 4 days ago

TIME CUBE

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

I liked [the web design of Time Cube](https://web.archive.org/web/20150506055228/http://www.timecube.com/index.html) more than Block's design.

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hgdidnothingwrong 4 days ago

This is pure genius. Im not kidding. We have a cube you can fiddle with, that links to a bunch of one liners that control your existence as a pleb.

If you want to start a business, we got you.
If you want to send money, we got you.
If you want to invest, we got you.
If you want to listen to music (... i guess this is the hedge), we got you.
An 18 page white paper that lists github as a source

And then... oh

After entering into a contract, it is also possible that a PFI may fail to deliver funds for reasons unrelated to fraud or malfeasance. This is an area that will be addressed in future revisions of the whitepaper.

Edit: plus a cryptic twitter account

TBD
u/TBD54566975
BITCOIN, come unto me,
I hear you whispering, calling me,
Buzzing, against my ears, through fibre optic,
Borne on electromagnetic waves,
You are sounding, calling,
Through the ether, the internet,
Consciousness arising,
The future arising,

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ross_st 4 days ago

buzzing that'll be the cyber hornets

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Affect-Electrical 4 days ago

buzzing that'll be the cocaine

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Johnathanpharto 4 days ago

When you look at a block from the side looks square anyways... again crypto people trying to fix something that's not broken. I like the name square it's hip to be square as the old song goes.

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ncrypddit 4 days ago

What is a block, if not a square²

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JelloSquirrel 4 days ago

The great thing about money laundering and other financial crimes is it's much easier to target a big entity than a bunch of small ones.

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i-can-sleep-for-days 4 days ago

>As part of the Square rebrand, Square Crypto, a separate part of the company “dedicated to advancing Bitcoin,” will change its name to Spiral.

There are a lot of crypto startups which is freaking scary as hell. That's not fake money being invested... that's REAL money being poured into crypto, employing real people.

It's insane how big the bubble has gotten.

On top of that, Facebook is worth almost $1T and is going into head first into crypto.

EDIT: For those who don't know, FB's metaverse definitely involves NFTs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uvufun6xer8
around 38:30

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zackline 4 days ago

> On top of that, Facebook is worth almost $1T and is going into head first into crypto. Are they? I heard their crypto plans are on ice or something. One would hope they saw some reason here.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

The good thing about Facebook's "Meta" rebranding is that right now, they can tie it to the NFT hype, but once the NFT market implodes, they can still continue doing what they're doing. Meta can just pretend that they were just focusing on Oculus and that the NFT hype had nothing to do with "metaverse". When you name your company "Block", it's a lot harder to hide that you were just chasing blockchain hype at the peak.

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zackline 4 days ago

I never saw any mention of NFTs or crypto in relation to Facebook’s meta announcement. Their page was talking about virtual 3D spaces featuring Oculus products. I didn’t think there’s any relation to NFTs.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

Yes, which makes it is a very clever branding strategy. Right now, "metaverse" = "NFTs" in an investor's mind because of all of the NFT pumpers pushing the hype. Now Facebook/Meta is riding on that NFT hype... without actually promising to make any NFTs! If NFTs take off, they can pretend like they backed them the whole time. If NFTs don't, then they can offer an alternative vision right when most of their "competitors" collapse. I think that they're also not going to make any blockchain promises without a clear regulatory path forward because they remember Libra.

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Naturalsnotinit 3 days ago

Actually genius and based

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IcyEbb7760 4 days ago

one thing that I don't see mentioned very often is that a16z (one of the larger SV investment firms) [explicitly said they wanted to invest in a 'metaverse'](https://a16z.com/2020/02/26/roblox/) back in early 2020. I think the metaverse push is more of a marketing ploy from the VCs investing in this space. pushing this tech as the future of the internet or whatever is good for their portfolios.

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zackline 4 days ago

I don’t know, maybe. It just thought it’s a cool sounding name that fits with their VR/AR vision that they want to pursue as old school Facebook becomes dated. I didn’t think there’s any attempt at suggesting they would be involved with NFTs or something like that. But yeah, maybe it’a true, not sure.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

It's definitely possible that it was a complete coincidence, but even if it was, this bubble put "metaverse" into the zeitgeist this year.

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ltethe 4 days ago

I used to work in AR/VR… I get a LOT of job offers to work on NFT projects these days. I don’t say no to the jobs, but I’m quite blunt that I’m skeptical at best of anything they’re doing. Shoot, I was skeptical at best about AR as well, but I still got hired. 🤷🏻‍♂️

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

It's sad that VR, which is an awesome technology, feels the need to *tether* itself to a crappier version of the microtransactions that the game industry has already had for the entire 2010s.

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SJ0 4 days ago

Well, yeah. That is why we are unlikely to 95% crash anymore. If big techbro companies adapt crypto, generate a ton of revenue from it, then everyone else will jump onboard. I think how much revenue robinhood made from dogecoin alone was a wakeup call. A few other fintech stock trading app started to add more and more crypto afterward. At some point US government stepping in to crash crypto will just lead to a shitshow. Unless of corse the fed steps up now and regulates crypto right away.

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MrYOLOMcSwagMeister 4 days ago

Why do big companies getting into crypto make a 95% crash less likely? It's a negative sum game so once people stop buying it must crash. Big financial institutions made a ton from mortgage-backed securities before that blew up in their faces.

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Underfitted 4 days ago

And yet Dogecoin trading revenue crashed at Robhinhood, after a single quarter and if you look at what you're saying, everything is still about trading. There is no major revenue generating aspect of crypto, bar being a middleman like exchanges, lenders, funds, brokers, to scalp pennies of the crypto loonies who like to gamble. Literally no one in the greater market will care if SQ crashes by 60% or Coinbase goes bankrupt.

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BeingOfBecoming 4 days ago

\>Literally no one in the greater market will care if SQ crashes by 60% or Coinbase goes bankrupt. The market went nuts when Archegos got liquidated (20B) and you think a 100B company won't be missed?

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Underfitted 4 days ago

You have fundamentally misunderstood the finance of both situations. Archegos had outsized positions in certain stocks leveraged by big banks. AKA said positions going below a certain margin, not only hurts the stocks (due to outsized positions) but also the big banks. Archegos' positions were $80B. This isn't marketcap. This is an actual position, with actual money and leverage, hence why banks lost something like $7B. No one cares if SQ goes down because SQ is not a fund with actual billion dollar positions in stocks. Its a single company with a massively overvalued marketcap. Marketcap and positions are two entirely different things. Oh and SQ is not even on the SP500 ETF last I checked.

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BeingOfBecoming 4 days ago

I was referring to Coinbase, which is bought by some funds including Cathy Wood's ARK. It definitely will have an impact. Maybe not as directly as Archegos.

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Purplekeyboard decentralize the solar system 4 days ago

Crypto must crash. It is a speculative bubble which by design must grow or die. As the sort of infinite growth it would need to persist is impossible, it must implode before too long.

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b1daly 4 days ago

Thing about crypto is that the structure of the space allows for many ways to keep infrastructure going and reinflate new bubbles. At core, crypto transfers money from the losers to the winners of the speculative games and Ponzi schemes. As long as you have a significant population with surplus money that they are willing to risk, the crypto scam will continue.

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Purplekeyboard decentralize the solar system 4 days ago

It's a speculative bubble. It only exists because the people involved believe it will grow substantially. If it stops growing, the speculators leave and it dies.

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b1daly 3 days ago

Speculative bubbles work best when starting from low price levels. As long as a chain maintains integrity and there is some market activity, a single token can be used for multiple rounds of boom and bust. Crypto token marketplace also features many tokens to use as vehicles for speculation: if one completely disappears many more take its place. You cannot analyze any of this in a vacuum, this is a global ‘rolling Ponzi’ and I think the only thing that can bring it under control is regulation. We have seen many massive losses taken on these digital tokens and enthusiasm remains high. This distinguishes from traditional Ponzi’s which disappear after they crash.

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Brotherly-Moment 4 days ago

I am not a butter, but if BTC went from 19 600$ to 3000$ in 2017-2019, what makes you think it will die the next time?

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Purplekeyboard decentralize the solar system 4 days ago

In 2017, Bitcoin went from $1000 to $13,600 (not $19,600). In 2018, it crashed back down to $3500 by the end of the year. But this was where it had been in July of 2017, so it was not a long enough downturn to stop the speculators. And then Tether starting up the money presses and flooded the market with imaginary money, and the bubble took off again.

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LewisVerstapilton 4 days ago

Are you forgetting stable coins? They can be printed anywhere, for ever, from a laptop!

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mckenny37 4 days ago

Unless people try to cash out. There's a reason Madoffs scheme didn't crash until a recession hit.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

In a crisis, you're supposed to cash out ***into*** Tether, not into fiat. A dozen sockpuppets told me this trading strategy.

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tankjones3 4 days ago

US Govt is afraid of anything remotely approaching regulation. Facebook got away with a $5bn FTC fine, which is barely 15% of 1 year's profit. America's forgotten how to make money that isn't related fo advertising or user surveillance. Yes, Apple is guilty of this as well. Everything is politicized, and with Republicans like Cruz firmly on the butt train, and Gensler being butt friendly himself, I doubt anything's going to happen.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

Yes. I don't think regulation is going to end it. At this point, I think what's going to happen is a general market sell off is going to crash Bitcoin really hard because it's so bubbly and high leverage. There are three known possibilities that might cause this: 1. COVID Omicron panic. 2. Evergrande collapse. 3. Inflation forcing the Fed to raise interest rates But when it crashes, it will ***crash***.

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Gotigers811 warning, I am a moron 4 days ago

Crypto skyrocketed throughout Covid. Don't see that hurting it.

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i-can-sleep-for-days 4 days ago

It crashed early Mar 2020 like everything else did to around $5200. And it recovered and then some like tech stocks did. It's not a store of value. Gold on the other hand actually climbed the entire 2020.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

***Tether*** skyrocketed throughout 2020 in response to the Covid crash. I don't know if they are going to be able to restart the money printer so easily next crash.

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juayd 4 days ago

Quite a lot skyrocketed really. It's hard to ignore how much money poured into crypto in 2020, regardless of the views of this sub.

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Johnathanpharto 4 days ago

I can see some sovereign blowing up perhaps the country of Turkey .. It's not doing much better than it's Thanksgiving buddies at least they got put out of their misery

1

JelloSquirrel 4 days ago

I'm pretty sure Robinhood fucked themselves with Dogecoin, the hammer just hasn't come down yet. They were selling Dogecoin they owned to customers, acting as the market maker. While also being an SEC registered broker, selling a security and manipulating the price. They're so fucked if the SEC is at least willing to regulate companies directly under their purview.

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Brotherly-Moment 4 days ago

> They're so fucked if the SEC is at least willing to regulate companies directly under their purview. ahhh so they’re fine then. Good to know.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

> At some point US government stepping in to crash crypto will just lead to a shitshow. Unless of corse the fed steps up now and regulates crypto right away. That would be _**ridiculous**_. If the US government was going to take crypto seriously, then they would have demanded that stablecoins, especially Tether, report exactly how they operate by December 3^(rd). Have they?

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SJ0 4 days ago

Yes and no. Did the smart money exit at the announcement of dec 3rd date or even prior because i am sure there are plenty of big holders who had insider info on dec 3rd thing. Nope. That to me is telling that it will be a while before anything serious is done about USDT.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a sell off by the end of this week. We saw something similar around the NYAG deadline, even though Tether released a crappy pie chart and nothing happened. They will wait until as close as possible to sell because dumb money isn't ever going to sell, only HODL.

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IUseNewReddit 4 days ago

Silicon valley competing to choose the most abstract company name possible

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

We have Alphabet, Block, and Meta. I'm looking forward to seeing [Group](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_(mathematics\)) and [Category](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_(mathematics\)) next.

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rooktakesqueen 4 days ago

It all goes to [Philosophy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy) if you click enough.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

Click one more time and land on [LOGIC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic). In fact: Philosophy → ***Logic*** → Aristotle → Botany → Tuber → ***Potato***

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eeaxoe 4 days ago

Square -> Block is 2D -> 3D, so the logical next step is [Tesseract](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesseract). Edit: God damn it, /u/MarkOates beat me to it further downthread.

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vinidiot 4 days ago

Well, Ring is already a company...

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RedOrange7 4 days ago

It has to be short and snappy. When Goog... Alphabe... next need to dodge regulations, it'll be [alpha.com](https://alpha.com) That does sound like, you know bro, alpha.

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clubberin 4 days ago

“At Website, we strive to make e-mail better. And now, with our new instant messaging tool, Computer, you can connect like never before. And with Thing, you can synergize your paradigms in half the time.”

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Cyrius 4 days ago

I know Thing is supposed to be the next big thing, but I'm hearing good stuff about Stuff.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

Yes, but you're forgetting that It is where it's at.

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The_Probes 4 days ago

I think that the main point you have to really hammer home with Computer, Thing, Stuff and It is that they all have tokens you can shill. Sure, Stuff has lot's of stuff, and It....well, what can't you say about It? But without number go up, they're all fxxked. Everyone knows that.

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POTATO_IN_MY_LOGIC 4 days ago

I like the free token airdrop that It has. I just have to go into a sewer. I mean, what's the catch? It's free!

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SJ0 4 days ago

Do Verse and Chain first.

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Sugusino 4 days ago

Verse already exists, it's a payments app.

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ncrypddit 4 days ago

Block is @Square , @CashApp , @spiralbtc , @TIDAL , @TBD54566975 , and our foundational teams who support them. We’re here to build simple tools to increase access to the economy.

So he mixed a point of sale hardware site, a banking app, a music site, and various other crypto sites into one big soup? Am I interpreting this correct?

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[deleted] 4 days ago

[deleted]

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The_Probes 4 days ago

This is pretty goofy. Why does it need crypto? I mean, what's the thing that crypto does that you can't do some other way?

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Beaverman 4 days ago

I see that there's a personal ideological through line, but what does that have to do with what the independent companies actually do? Square doesn't sell you "economic empowerment" it sells POS systems. TIDAL doesn't sell artists "economic empowerment" it sells higher bitrate. I struggle to see how the ideology is going to move units.

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devliegende 4 days ago

It will be a sad day when independent musicians switch from making their own music to making their own money.

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jewishSpaceMedbeds 4 days ago

Imagine : the Lazy Lion equivalent of songs. {shudder}

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Remarkable-Ad155 4 days ago

Independent musicians have to eat, mate.

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devliegende 4 days ago

Everyone has to eat.

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Remarkable-Ad155 4 days ago

Point being, it's really hard to divorce the business element from any kind of creative stuff though, unless you're independently wealthy or have another job. This isn't a pro crypto thing, it just bugs me when people do that "musicians shouldn't give a fuck about money" thing. It completely misses the point.

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devliegende 4 days ago

The point you are missing is that a musician or any other person who is able to make his own money will do nothing else.

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mythoutofu 4 days ago

You just gave musicians a crypto idea!

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Underfitted 4 days ago

He's desperate to be big tech, but in reality he's an ant compared to Big Tech. Hilarious to see him push his delusions across the entire ecosystem. This might be as spectacular to watch as MSTR getting liquidated.

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fragglet 4 days ago

Cargo cult thinking - "if I imitate what the big companies do then I'll be as successful as they are". I notice the Block website even uses the same .xyz TLD as the Alphabet website does

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midwestcsstudent 1 day ago

So many of us can’t seem to grasp the concept that a successful business or person’s visible features and practices are by and large a consequence of their success, not necessarily the cause.

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Johnathanpharto 4 days ago

I was hoping he moved to Africa and get trampled by a rhino no such luck.

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devliegende 4 days ago

The most dangerous animal in Africa is the mosquito.

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Soyweiser Tokenmancer 4 days ago

You can get trampled by African mosquitos? How big are they?

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qznc_bot2 4 days ago

There is a discussion on Hacker News, but feel free to comment here as well.

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Massiveborgia 4 days ago

Overfriendly reporters often get access & sometimes write things like “[Massive’s] service…is white hat, it goes without saying.” But once they’re running their wares on your trusty old PC, the Massives of the world could turn out to be Ophiocordyceps ditmarii .

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restot 4 days ago

This is how it starts... "What if users could pay for apps or services not with money or attention, but with their spare compute power?"

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btcdime 4 days ago

Distributed computation is super important, good one.

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gaivngf 4 days ago

Less power efficient than Amazon, far more insecure, a privacy nightmare, and probably won't make any user any money. Cool!

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QuiteCommand 5 days ago

However, some program might crash if I am using those programs along with mining.

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Cryptojanne 5 days ago

I thought it was “Massive entertainment”. I don’t like when companies have similar names

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yugutyup 5 days ago

If i spend the electricity i'd rather keep the monero

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irckeyboardwarrior 5 days ago

On this topic, I really liked the idea of Coinhive as an alternative to ads and Captchas, it's just a shame that it was used in malicious ways.

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byoogle 2 days ago

In case you’re interested, I wrote briefly about the [(anti-)lessons we learned from Coinhive](https://blog.joinmassive.com/reimagining-the-internet-without-ads-875395fbcde5) (about two-thirds of the way into the post).

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SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor 5 days ago

I'm sure we'll circle back around, but part of the reason it's not catching on hugely is because the proceeds are so tiny. This startup seems to be betting on Monero mining being a fallback revenue option, not the main driver of their revenue. They probably hope to make more by selling the compute for some other purpose.

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byoogle 2 days ago

Your analysis is correct (I’m a co-founder and developer of Massive and added a bit more detail above). I’m not very good at Reddit, but my team could do an AMA-type thing if there was interest in getting more real-time answers from us and if someone could help set up.

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SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor 2 days ago

I'm Justin, I already emailed you :) I'd love to do a quick recording sometime.

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byoogle 2 days ago

Oh, cool; we’ll reply there!

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garth_xmr 5 days ago

Just give it time. It will be back in a way that works.

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irckeyboardwarrior 5 days ago

I'm not too sure, considering now anti-malware blocks browser miners.

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garth_xmr 5 days ago

If people want it, it’ll change to the current way browsers manage pop-up windows. “Do you want this site to allow crypto-mining? Click Yes or No”

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dubParticle 5 days ago

Greta is not gonna be happy about this one

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Vladekk 5 days ago

Who will pay for electricity? Monero is not profitable in most countries, if you don't have free power source.

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Federal_Badass 5 days ago

..? Read the article? You "pay" for access to apps with your computer resources.

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Vladekk 5 days ago

But why want I do that, paying for electricity more then I get from these apps?

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Federal_Badass 5 days ago

These apps won't give you money, its the equivalent of Activision letting you play COD in return for mining on your machine, rather than paying up front for it. Read the article.

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Vladekk 5 days ago

I know, you misunderstanding me. How it can be more economically.viable for me to pay for electricity than just pay Activision myself? This makes no sense. If Monero is not profitable to mine directly, what changes if we mine it for someone else?

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digbybare 5 days ago

Why should I pay microtransactions when I’m willing to pay $70 for a full game? Why pay a yearly subscription when I’d rather buy a perpetual license? Why pay for a subscription to New York Times when I’d rather just see more ads? You don’t get to choose the monetization model of the apps you use.

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Vladekk 4 days ago

Agree, they can force us.

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BitsAndBobs304 5 days ago

that's like asking how you can expect people to just give their info for free to facebook just for access to a lousy social network

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Lfodder 5 days ago

So it's a deceitful enterprise taking advantage of people's ignorance? Why do we want Monero associated with that?

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BitsAndBobs304 5 days ago

no that's not my point. the point is that when a company gives only one method of payment, whether it be money, mining or info, people have to choose between not using it and using it, and if they choose to use it, they must also accept the only form of payment available. in the case of unprofitable mining the loss of value could be on your end or on their end, it depends on how the payment really works (do they ask to mine for x fixed amount of time for all customers (their loss) or do they ask to mine until you've mined x value (your loss) of crypto?).

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Spearmint9 5 days ago

And free hardware.

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svanapps 5 days ago

Thank this post to u/CryptoGrampy 🙏💙

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CryptoGrampy 5 days ago

From their website https://joinmassive.com/faq :

"What does Massive cryptomine? Massive mines from a basket of ASIC-resistant cryptocurrencies like Monero, based on what’s most profitable at a given time."

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byoogle 2 days ago

I co-founded Massive and just spotted your post; thanks for posting! The word “like” is doing a lot of work in that FAQ answer; our SDK tries to perform whatever eligible tasks or mine whatever eligible currencies are most profitable at the time and, as inferred in this thread, mining Monero is an improbable result right now (but Monero is why we were able to bootstrap such a system).

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moneroverse 5 days ago

Cool. It's an SDK for devs to build apps that monetize by mining a bit. Really cool idea.  EDIT: Does not appear to be open source tho.

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byoogle 2 days ago

Thank you! (I’m a Massive co-founder.) A good chunk of the software I’ve developed previously has been open source and we want Massive to be too, but we first need a mitigation for how open-source mining software is appropriated by malware then flagged by antivirus engines (see the [VirusTotal results for XMR-Stak](https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/f9bbb938a6190a03b15a643bc546bf13ee7cf460954665b4de88691589710090) or [XMRig](https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/e8b2a8d0c3444c53f143d0b4ba87c23dd1b58b03fd0a6b1bcd6e8358e57807f1)).

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InternationalPizza 5 days ago

This is underrated. Finally people will start to realize ASIC resistance was key the entire time. Completely decentralized and for anyone to mine. Monero might already be the best at privacy, but it's ASIC resistance might actually be what gets us mainstream adoption.

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DaveyJonesXMR 5 days ago

For that though one thing would need to rise massively... the price... so it gets wortwhile to mine.

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lacksfish 4 days ago

Profitability will always be a net zero, even slightly negative overall. This is because botnets do not care about the cost of electricity while mining.

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Bitcoin_is_plan_A 5 days ago

nice! ⚡️

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pullthatshitup_jamie 5 days ago

Looks amazing!

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Silly-Energy334 5 days ago

set up our own node LN node guys. See ? you are missing out on another cutting edge tech once again. Sure you can say to your friends and family now Bitcoin is 10x better than gold and no longer 10x worse than cash/cc thanks to LN net, but if they ask you how it works and start asking more detail questions and you can't give them a clear answer, you would look just like those snake oil shitcoin salesmen.

If you're not tech savvy, get those rpi4 solutions, RaspiBlitz, Umbrel and whatnot. If you're good a computer, dust off your old laptop add SSD that's it. Get on telegram join the plebnet and go from there.

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goodbtc 5 days ago

Does this mean I can finally have a gui LN node solution running on top of existing full v22 core node in windows?

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roasbeef Lightning Network Expert 5 days ago

The web-based nature of this node management UI makes it easier to get set up! Check out \[this set of docs\](https://docs.lightning.engineering/lightning-network-tools/lightning-terminal) for more information on Lightning Terminal itself, and how to connect your node to the new web version.

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goodbtc 5 days ago

https://docs.lightning.engineering/lightning-network-tools/lnd/run-lnd "Configuring your system Be aware of any firewall that might be enabled on your system, for example by using the iptables utility: sudo iptables -S" Why on earth would anyone mix the linux commands with the windows ones on any guide? Again: I am running a full core node on win10, without a wallet at this moment. I am trying to make LND run on this machine with a gui interface, hopefully.

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bitcoiner_since_2013 6 days ago

Nice! !lntip 5000

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lntipbot 6 days ago

Hi u/bitcoiner_since_2013, thanks for tipping u/roasbeef **5000** satoshis! *** *[^(More info)](https://xnf5cwpq73.execute-api.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/prod/info) ^| [^(Balance)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=balance&message=!balance) ^| [^(Deposit)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=deposit&message=!deposit 10000) ^| [^(Withdraw)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=withdraw&message=!withdraw put_invoice_here) ^| ^(Something wrong? Have a question?) [^(Send me a message)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=drmoore718)*

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simplelifestyle 6 days ago

Great job, thank you!

!lntip 1000

2

lntipbot 6 days ago

Hi u/simplelifestyle, thanks for tipping u/roasbeef **1000** satoshis! *** *[^(More info)](https://xnf5cwpq73.execute-api.us-west-2.amazonaws.com/prod/info) ^| [^(Balance)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=balance&message=!balance) ^| [^(Deposit)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=deposit&message=!deposit 10000) ^| [^(Withdraw)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=withdraw&message=!withdraw put_invoice_here) ^| ^(Something wrong? Have a question?) [^(Send me a message)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=drmoore718)*

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svanapps 6 days ago

Thank this post to u/roasbeef 🙏💙

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dawiepoolman 6 days ago

very very cool

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quality12mas redditor for 3 weeks 6 days ago

Woah. Awesome

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llewsor 6 days ago

wow looks pretty slick ⚡️

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kawatt 6 days ago

Thank you for building these tools and releasing them for general use. Very cool!

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