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bitusher 3 hs ago

Drivechains are an interesting idea as long as they don't lock up much BTC in them or if mining becomes much more decentralized due to the inherent risks of trusting a cartel of miners . Looks like this needs a lot more work as well.

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_jstanley 4 hs ago

More info on how this works at http://www.drivechain.info/

It sounds like it's closer to working than sidechains were when I last researched them. The previous best idea I heard was "federated peg" - where some federation of trusted parties control the keys for spending the sidechained coins. To deposit coins to the sidechain, you give them to the federation, and to withdraw from the sidechain, you ask the federation to give you your coins.

Drivechain's idea basically makes Bitcoin miners into the federation, and comes with some consensus rules on what is required in order for a withdrawal to happen: it can only happen a few times per year, and a super-majority of hashrate must agree.

Making the miners the "federation" means that any group of people who are in a position to cheat with sidechain funds are also in a position to do massive double spends or reorgs. That they don't do double spends or reorgs in practice implies that they also won't cheat with the sidechain funds.

EDIT: The downside here is that since there might be very poor liquidity between the sidechain and the mainchain, a non-unity exchange rate might arise. That's not that big a deal though, and the periodic transfers between mainchain and sidechain should counteract it quite a bit.

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TipToeThruCrypto 5 hs ago

https://archive.is/ppfEB

http://archivecaslytosk.onion/ppfEB

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ABitcoinAllBot 7 hs ago

Here is the link to the original comment thread. Or you can comment here to start a discussion. Author: kolinHall

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Light_of_Lucifer 17373 karma 7 hs ago

A proposal to radically expand the capabilities of bitcoin such that it would be able to add vast new features to its limited supply of cryptocurrency has arrived on testnet.

... a test version of the code is to be announced Tuesday, a development that comes nearly three years after the idea was first conceived in November 2015. Since then, momentum has built for the proposal, now hailed as perhaps the best way to implement sidechains on bitcoin.

"If this 'multi-network coin' idea is found to be viable, it has profound implications for the crypto's most salient problems. Bitcoin would be able to copy, without controversy, any technology, including: larger blocks, Turing-completeness, and ring signatures."

Massive

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Legitinternetguy Redditor for 5 months. 8 hs ago

The possibilites of fully working decentralised drivechains is really cool, you could pretty much create any kind of blockchain but still rely on the security of the bitcoin network.

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PapaDock820 2 months old | Karma CC: 595 7 hs ago

> the security of the bitcoin network. That's not very reassuring

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jamesmrk3l 31 mins ago

Apart from the output index i , the stealth address generation formula P = Hs(rA||i)*G + B described on the blog post is exactly like the one on CryptoNote's white paper. Is the process of creating stealth addresses still the same, but with THROW_WALLET_EXCEPTION_IF?

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dnale0r XMR Contributor 2 hs ago

We already knew about this stuff... It's not really a bug imho.

Seriously, exchanges should just be more responsible and check stuff like this as well. Don't just trust the default wallet implementation, do stress tests before you add a coin!

Anyway... I guess if this "bug" has been exploited, the damage will be minimal for the exchanges: an attacker can only burn the full hot wallet until an exchange notices something is wrong.

If an exchange did not check for duplicated one time output keys, they'll need to buy the monero on the market to replace the burnt coins. So well... bullish? LOL

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Vespco 4 hs ago

At what point was it realize that this was possible and an act bug? I am curious because I may have helped in some very minor way. Didn't have the idea, nor the fix, but I did this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9gtr10/would_this_attack_work/

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FlailingBorg 5 hs ago

Now that we have been through this twice, I would argue that in any similar situation (e.g. exchanges suddenly taking down their wallets, some claiming to have been contacted by the devs) any would-be attacker will assume that there is a bug or vulnerability. Considering this, making an announcement that something is up probably would do no additional harm and might reduce confusion among the community.

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physalisx 6 hs ago

What I'm wondering is: how does the patch resolve the issue? Does it make the previously "burned" outputs spendable again, i.e. is it now possible to send multiple tx to the same stealth address and spend them again?

If so then I don't think this vulnerability is even that critical, no money could have been permanently lost, except for the attacker who'd have to pay a lot of fees to do the attack.

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rbrunner7 XMR Contributor 5 hs ago

On the contrary, "unburn" those unspendable transactions would be completely wrong. They don't represent any valid XMR coins at all. You could say the sender sent the same 1 XMR coin 1000 times, counting on the receiver not becoming aware about that immediately, credit 1000 XMR and allow the sender to do something with them, e.g. exchanging them into BTC.

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physalisx 5 hs ago

Pretty sure you got that wrong. The attacker is not sending the same coin 1000 times. He is sending 1000 XMR, 1 coin at a time. The bug is that the receiver can only spend 1 XMR of that.

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TTEEVV 5 hs ago

A way for a large business to attack a small competitor?

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rbrunner7 XMR Contributor 5 hs ago

Quote from the post-mortem article: > Therefore, a determined attacker could burn the funds of an organization's wallet whilst merely losing network transaction fees. For me that directly contradicts your assumption that you have to send 1000 genuine XMR coins, with a loss for you of XMR 1000 plus fees, to cause a damage at the exchange of 999 XMR.

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physalisx 4 hs ago

The attack is this: \- attacker sends 1000 XMR in 1 XMR steps to the exchange \- the exchange credits him 1000 XMR (not knowing that they can only **use** 1 XMR of that) \- the attacker withdraws 1000 XMR again or exchanges them to another crypto \- that means the attacker only loses the transaction fees (+ withdrawal fees)

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xmrhaelan Monero Outreach Organizer 6 hs ago

“Lastly, I'd like to emphasize that, for any organization present in the Monero ecosystem, it's imperative to be subscribed to the public mailing list.”

Can you please provide a link to said public mailing list?

Great response to a challenging issue. Good work guys!

Edit: found it... https://lists.getmonero.org/postorius/lists/monero-announce.lists.getmonero.org/ You might consider including this in the blog post.

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therealbricky 7 hs ago

This is the bug that everyone's been denying exists I guess?

(the reason why many exchanges have their wallets offline)

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newbe567890 7 hs ago

is monero wownero and aeon safe from this bug.....right now.......

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s_c_m_l 14 mins ago

Yes seems to be like it. Im sure the developers would have notified other CN based cryptocurrencies [https://github.com/wownero/wownero/pull/92](https://github.com/wownero/wownero/pull/92) [https://github.com/aeonix/aeon/pull/60](https://github.com/aeonix/aeon/pull/60) [https://github.com/masari-project/masari/pull/103](https://github.com/masari-project/masari/pull/103)

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SmoothTriminal 8 hs ago

Reading some of the responses in this thread, you’d almost think that there’s a magical world where bug-free software exists, alongside the faeries and dragons 🐉

Bugs happen. More will be discovered and mitigated. It’s an endless battle. Bug bounties definitely help. Luckily, the integrity of the blockchain was unaffected and a fork isn’t required.

Exchanges will likely implement mitigation strategies (at least the sensible ones will) to combat this sort of issue in the future. If you think an issue of this nature can’t affect other cryptocurrencies, go ahead and google “cryptocurrency bugs”.

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OsrsNeedsF2P 8 hs ago

Good stuff!

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Critical386 8 hs ago

Is this the reason Dream Market no longer accepts Monero?

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johnfoss68 2 hs ago

They claimed to have been affected by a previous multiple counting bug

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smooth_xmr XMR Core Team 7 hs ago

You will have to ask them.

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tempMonero123 7 hs ago

They haven't accepted XMR for a long time as far as I know.

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Critical386 7 hs ago

Right. Because they said there was a bug in Monero in which hackers were able to withdraw funds from their wallet.

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physalisx 7 hs ago

This bug wouldn't do that.

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tempMonero123 6 hs ago

They haven't been accepting XMR since at least before the previous (exchange) wallet bug. Personally, I think it's unrelated to any bugs.

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spirtdica 8 hs ago

This same problem could occur by chance right? Such a small chance that it's cryptographically impossible, but non-zero nonetheless. Seems like it would be feasible to have some sort of check for accidental key image reuse, but probably wouldn't be worth the computational overhead. Still, if I was going to move a huge amount of XMR I'd be paranoid, would love to double-check the availability of a generated key image.

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TNSepta 2 hs ago

No, the chance is as small as generating a new wallet and finding someone else's wallet, i.e. nonzero but in reality impossible.

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spirtdica 2 hs ago

If you were moving a million bucks, wouldn't you want to check anyway? Whenever I make a new wallet, I scan for transactions through the whole blockchain, just to see if it's already in use. Like I said, I know the chance is vanishingly small, but exists nonetheless. Maybe I'm just paranoid

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TNSepta 2 hs ago

If you are that paranoid, then you should not be using cryptography, since there is technically a nonzero chance of someone guessing your private key. You need to learn the magnitudes of these probabilities instead of claiming they are nonzero.

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spirtdica 2 hs ago

I know the chance of a collision is about the same as a snowball's chance in Hell; that doesn't make me wrong when I say the chance is non-zero. You're assuming that each possibility has an equal probability here; my concern has more to do with pseudo-random number generation. Checking for duplicate key images can be viewed as protection against RNG weakness, for example. Still, I'm willing to concede that the low probability isn't worth the computational effort; I can't imagine a way to implement such a check without scanning the whole blockchain.

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CryptoShark44 8 hs ago

I switched from Monero to Cloak for this reason. Cloak was actually audited by NASDAQs cyber security firm with no bugs. Plus 3x less circulation.

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s_c_m_l 10 hs ago

Thank you for the disclosure. Happy that I did contribute something to the cryptocurrency that I believe in.

And extremely sorry for posting it in reddit rather than asking on the monero dev group. That was irresponsible of me. Didn’t think much of it when posting.

No shame Edit : If you think i deserve some XMR feel free to donate

8AC4U2zCE2QM9WPSRmNtzd1THmgsfZTbL8tLeEEg4woxTzX6qQwRk5UWgxb4eWm8Wb8QW8LQJTFhKVTnbXE865oKFdFcHS8

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OsrsNeedsF2P 7 hs ago

You were just doing some smart brainstorming :) never apologize for that. For all we knew, there could already have been some code preventing that.

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arul20 10 hs ago

Let core developers know of the bug
Wait 30 days and release information on the vulnerability and exploit vectors if any.

This gives the developers a headstart to fixing it but ensures full disclosures. It also de-incentivises developers from sitting on security bugs and hoping no-one else will find them. They have to fix them before the 30 day window runs out.

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smooth_xmr XMR Core Team 7 hs ago

This is the ideal case when someone discovers a vulnerability and reports it in a responsible manner. That's not what happened here. Instead the vulnerability was to some extent already public. This is a messy situation and definitely not ideal but it is something that can happen and may well happen again.

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arul20 7 hs ago

I'm suggesting the future SOP vulnerability disclosures.

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smooth_xmr XMR Core Team 7 hs ago

That already exists https://hackerone.com/monero

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arul20 1 h ago

It's a good link, however it's from XMR's point of view. My post above is from the point of view of security researchers and community - though we have similar ideas. My main concern is how the researcher goes about responsibly disclosing the vulnerability - informing you *and the general public*.

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M5M400 10 hs ago

can we haz timeline?

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truther10 10 hs ago

It is very unfortunate that such a bug existed, although one could argue that it is the frustrating nature of the software development.

I think this was the right way to handle the situation, i.e. send the patch to exchanges first, because they - among other XMR accepting businesses - could have suffered the most from this vulnerability. Then publish the disclosure.

Regarding how situation like this could be prevented from happening in the future, more reviewers of the code are deeply needed, like it was said on the disclosure. To me this emphasizes the need to support our talented community members both verbally and economically to attend blockchain, cybersecurity and cryptocurrency related conferences and events to speak about the great aspects of Monero. This will help to get people from those huge talent pools involved in the Monero community, which will improve the whole ecosystem. How, you say? Well, some of the usual visitors in those events are researchers, students, developers, reporters and investors. To me this seems like a group that could bring some great benefits to Monero.

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antanst XMR Contributor 10 hs ago

When someone reads this announcement, he has a rather important unanswered question at the end: How can I fix my node? Are there any binaries out? Have I missed something?

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smooth_xmr XMR Core Team 7 hs ago

If you are waiting for binaries you should disable receiving payments until they are available for download. If you can install from source then the patches are available already.

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antanst XMR Contributor 6 hs ago

Thanks, I've already updated. I was trying to make a point that announcing an important vulnerability should have mitigation or workaround details at the very least. The announcement was good at explaining the issue, but think about how it goes: 1. Someone reads the announcement 2. Damn this is serious! I should update! Goes to releases page 3. Vulnerability important but updated release nowhere to be found ??? Let me check the announcement again... 4. No release and no mitigation steps ??? What am I supposed to do? (dEBRUYNE\_1 said one in this thread: churn any output that is received. You also said to disable receiving payments; both could be mentioned there) Maybe it would help to adopt a more standardized vulnerability announcement template? I'm willing to help on this. FreeBSD comes to mind as an example: r/[https://www.freebsd.org/security/advisories/FreeBSD-SA-18:12.elf.asc](https://www.freebsd.org/security/advisories/FreeBSD-SA-18:12.elf.asc) 

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FlailingBorg 5 hs ago

Having actionable steps right on the disclosure page would certainly be helpful.

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dEBRUYNE_1 Moderator 4 hs ago

I made a personal note for the next post mortem (which hopefully won't be anytime soon :-P).

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dEBRUYNE_1 Moderator 10 hs ago

Please see the twitter thread: https://twitter.com/monero/status/1044585858030923776 There *should* be v0.13.0.0-RC1 binaries soon as well. A basic check that can be used by the user (even if using older versions) is to churn any output that is received. A transaction with a burnt output will be rejected by the network. Thus, a successful churn verifies that the output has not been burnt.

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fort3hlulz 10 hs ago

Definitely thankful for the post, but I *do* think that a simple disclosure would be helpful in the future.

I.e. a bug is reported and found to be real. Monero devs make a post that there *is* a bug, that it is being worked on, but without details on what/exploit details.

That way the community can be informed that there is something going on and that it is being fixed, without giving attackers details on how to exploit it.

What are y'alls thoughts?

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binaryFate XMR Core Team 2 hs ago

In general I would personally agree with you but the challenge in that case was that the bug had been posted on reddit so by saying "there is a bug" it was easy to connect the dots.

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crcondes 5 hs ago

That seems pretty reasonable. If they don't disclose any details, it might encourage malicious entities to search harder for a vulnerability, but other than that what's the downside?

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hapticpilot 10 hs ago

I'd appreciate that. A trusted member of the community could say: "I know of the existence of a vulnerability. I can't reveal the details yet because it could assist an attack with an attack. My recommendation is to avoid doing <X> while you wait for the mitigations to be deployed. Further information will be forthcoming.'

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fluffyponyza XMR Core Team 7 hs ago

If there is some suspicion as to the nature of the attack then that leads to it being exploited before anyone can patch. Disclosure is hard, and has to be handled on a case-by-case basis. There is no perfect path that protects Monero and also ensures Monero clones / CN forks aren’t attacked.

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m8tion 3 hs ago

Close observers of the community knew there was a bug (well, I was pretty sure of it) : most of the exchanges´ wallets on maintenance + xmr.to closed + no dev answers to the dozens of reddit posts about this situation were all huge hints. Next time it occurs, there will be no surprise. 9 days to resolve the situation and a critical bug after a simple question on reddit is a success and congrats to the devs who probably spent tons of hours on this. But I think 2 critical bugs per year are too much and the same questioning about the code review / tests / merging processes the bitcoin community is facing right now has to occur in the monero community. Well, my two tacoshis but one additional person in the MRL team closer to the code may help for this ? The question asked on reddit should have been asked internally. EDIT: I wrote ¨internally¨, this looks so centralized...

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fluffyponyza XMR Core Team 3 hs ago

"Internally" within the VRP team is not a centralised term, so that's totally fine in this context. I don't think an additional MRL person would help, this is code and not research related.

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hapticpilot 7 hs ago

> If there is some suspicion as to the nature of the attack then that leads to it being exploited before anyone can patch. I'd say it's more accurate to say that giving advanced warning to users *could* lead to the vulnerability being found and exploited by attackers; not that it *will* lead to that. Like you said: it "has to be handled on a case-by-case basis". I think in many cases you could advise users on specific actions they should **not** do and keep the advise general enough that attackers would not be tipped off on exactly what the exploit is or where to look for it. > There is no perfect path that protects Monero and also ensures Monero clones / CN forks aren’t attacked. Indeed.

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Priest_of_Satoshi 10 hs ago

Who is a trusted member of the community?

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hapticpilot 10 hs ago

Who do you trust? *right back at ya*

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Priest_of_Satoshi 9 hs ago

I definitely trust /u/fluffyponyza. [https://bitsonline.com/fluffypony-speaks-troll-monero-market/](https://bitsonline.com/fluffypony-speaks-troll-monero-market/)  anyways, what I'm trying to say is this is a *really* challenging problem. Ultimately, the only path I see to solving it would be some sort of bounty system where players are incentivized to report and patch bugs instead of abuse them.

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binaryFate XMR Core Team 2 hs ago

> some sort of bounty system where players are incentivized to report Like this? :) "This Vulnerability Response Process and subsequent *bounty reward* apply to the following..." https://github.com/monero-project/meta/blob/master/VULNERABILITY_RESPONSE_PROCESS.md

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Priest_of_Satoshi 1 h ago

Hmmm.. Hadn't seen that. Yes. Like that only hopefully becoming more decentralized as time goes on. (So we dont have to worry about one of these guys being corrupted.) Not sure how to design these incentives though.

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midipoet 9 hs ago

> Ultimately, the only path I see to solving it would be some sort of bounty system where players are incentivized to report and patch bugs instead of abuse them. The two recent bugs would have been very difficult to maintain risk reward parity with, due to their severity. From my understanding anyway.

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hapticpilot 9 hs ago

Report to who though? If they report to the public, then it creates a window of opportunity for malicious people to attack the innocent. We are then in an emergency mode where developers need to rush to prepare a fix as fast as possible to minimize the damage done. Responsible disclosure principles have been established over time and they seem quite reasonable. Part of responsible disclosure is that you first disclose to the people who are empowered to fix the vulnerability and who will likely do so, because you believe they are good. So when the vulnerability gets reported, the right thing to do (I think) is to report it to the likes of moneromooo and fluffy (not everyone). This means the "good guys" get a head start on the "bad guys". If moneromooo and fluffy both then announce that we "should **not** do <X> for the time being because there may be a serious issue", I think most users will stop doing <X> and will be happy to wait for the creation and publishing of a well tested fix.

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Scissorhand78 10 hs ago

I could see how confirmation of a bug without resolution would lead to market upheaval and alert an adversary to look for the exploit.

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fort3hlulz 9 hs ago

Yeah its tough, as you need to find a good balance between transparency and security.

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needmoney90 Moderator 11 hs ago

Zero-day vulnerability disclosure in a decentralized network is difficult, and the moderators were torn on the best course of action to take with regards to informing the community. For this particular issue, we decided to wait until a release candidate with a patch was out, before revealing the existence of the bug (and how to exploit it).

We would like to have a serious discussion with the community about how best to disclose future vulnerabilities like the burn bug, and will be creating a thread for that purpose soon.

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xmr_pony 11 hs ago

b-b-but devs said there is no bug :\^)

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TNSepta 10 hs ago

b-b-but /u/xmr_pony said that Monero is going to require a hard fork to fix this bug :\^) https://snew.github.io/user/xmr_pony/overview

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selsta 11 hs ago

Read through the logs again. They did not say anything :P

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midipoet 11 hs ago

The poster is talking about the Reddit threads yesterday about Monero being delisted.

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xmr_pony 10 hs ago

exactly, i got downvoted \~ 100 times when I said there is a critical bug :))))))  alto guys idk to what should I jerk off to now? that I exploited this on Kraken and hurt em plenty and left em w a lot of unspendable XMR or to the deluded Morons lurking this sub ? can u help me out /u/fluffyponyza ? :)

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physalisx 7 hs ago

Yeah and we'll continue to downvote you since you're just as full of shit today as you were yesterday

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selsta 10 hs ago

`16:17 <dEBRUYNE> Kraken was one of the first exchanges to receive a patch afaik` Kraken patched it days ago.

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xmr_pony 10 hs ago

i cant actually believe how deep you are inside fluffyponzis ass to believe anything these people say, especially after they told to their community there is NO bug, then few hours later release a "post mortem of the bug".  and the best part is, this bug was found by a random guy reading how monero works and then posted it on reddit. a **\_\_\_\_random guy\_\_\_\_** whats even more mindblowing is that theres 1500 XMR in the vulnerability disclosure. and all of the monero code is written by 1 guy, which already fucked up twice, now consider what a proper blockchain protocol security researcher could find about his spaghetti. at this point im just waiting for it to happen =)

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obit33 10 hs ago

please stop, do you really think anything you say will be taken seriously... you admitted yourself you were totally trolling and now you want to be mr. serious? [https://np.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9ikid6/there\_is\_no\_known\_bug\_in\_monero\_that\_is\_impacting/e6ln4sp](https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9ikid6/there_is_no_known_bug_in_monero_that_is_impacting/e6ln4sp) This is what you said: >i was waiting for pizza so i trolled, what else lol so yes, I'd much rather believe a long proven community-member who more then earned his stripes than a random admitted troll spreading total lies and bullshit...Do you really want to keep wasting time on this? 

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midipoet 10 hs ago

While the poster is baiting, let's get real here. Yesterday questions were asked about a bug. The existence of one was flatly denied on various channels, and then today a post mortem is released. Yes, it's a precarious situation, but all and sundry can see why one might lost faith in the development team, when lying is seen as the answer to tough questions.

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selsta 10 hs ago

Where did they deny the existence of a bug? Where did they lie? I’ve only seen people on Reddit speculating.

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midipoet 9 hs ago

I stand corrected. I read over the portion of the log that was posted yesterday, and indeed when probed, the default behaviour was silence from the Core team. The question was directly answered by someone that is perhaps not a Core member. I apologise for the accusations.

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obit33 10 hs ago

I can certainly understand how you feel about this, it is a rather 'difficult' situation for which there is no set out path to a solution... These are things that happen, and they confront us with the limits of 'decentralisation'. I wouldn't consider 'being silent' about something the same as 'lying'. Since there's no fixed path on how issues like these should be 'solved', I can see how it seems that approaching it the way that was done would cause the least damage. The majority of people here questioning about 'a bug' have on thing on mind: "is my money safe"... I totally understand this reflex, but one could agree that for an exchange/busness, there's much more at stake. It's not only about 'their money', it's about 'all their users money'...So it's a hard decision to take, but (since there's not an agreed upon approach) it's the right one imho... Coming in here now and proclaiming that the devs were 'lying' is imho a bit selfish. To me, it seems that, at any moment they had the best interests of this community (which is more then only its users like you and me, it's also businesses, exchanges etc.) in mind... It's too bad that 'someone' still has to take decisions like this, but it is what it is at this moment, it's a decision, not a lie... I'm pretty sure noone was keen on taking that decision, but someone/some people did to the best of their conscience. Calling them liars now is maybe a bit 'ungrateful'? best regards,

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midipoet 9 hs ago

I accept that I read the logs incorrectly, and that it seems silence was the modus operandi for the tough questions, not flat out denial. I apologise for calling anybody a liar that did not lie, but merely turned the other way to deflect having to answer. If that the modus operandi, so be it. But yes, i will choose to lose a bit of faith.

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xmr_pony 10 hs ago

was deff a troll m8, cant u see there is NO exploit, its even upvoted 160 times on this sub and devs confirmed it!!  can u imagine the "oh shit" moment moron-moo had when he read that question from a completely random guy and figured, "oh shit, this is actually possible, some random guy just learning about Monero knows more about protocol design than me who wrote 90% of Monero scam code and I got funded by community for over 2k XMR"

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obit33 10 hs ago

Almost can't read what you're writing, but I think I got the gist of it...here you go: [https://www.coindesk.com/the-latest-bitcoin-bug-was-so-bad-developers-kept-its-full-details-a-secret/](https://www.coindesk.com/the-latest-bitcoin-bug-was-so-bad-developers-kept-its-full-details-a-secret/) maybe start with your moral crusade there, after all btc is still the polebearer of the whole cryptoverse. I'm sure if you can convinve them to handle things differently, xmr will be able to learn from it. I'm sure if you call the tons of devs working on btc morons, it will help a lot! good luck!

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xmr_pony 9 hs ago

altho the situation w BTC is kind of the same, XMR one is much more severe since somehow a guy that gets >FUNDED < by community fucked up twice already, and somehow 1500 XMR community funded for vulnerability research is pointless since somehow a random guy learning about monero finds a bug that can put million/billion dollars worth of software out of business. there are companies that do audits of C++ code as well as companies that do audits of blockchain/network protocols, maybe we should fund that instead of waiting for some whiteknight exploit researcher who will receive somewhere from 1-1500 XMR for his bug (lets face it, anyone would turn down their moral shit if they found a critical bug they can exploit for monetary gain on a 2.6 billion dollar software)

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KwukDuck 10 hs ago

>there is a critical bug in the core network protocol, thats as much as i can say now, its very serious and most likely there wont be Monero next week. This is what you said... Which is misleading, at best... There is no bug in the core network protocol, there's a bug in the wallet software.

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obit33 10 hs ago

b-b-but you said you were cashing out: [https://np.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9ifmwi/monero\_delisting/e6jcczu](https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9ifmwi/monero_delisting/e6jcczu) s-s-so you're actually full of shit and totally unhelpful

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obit33 11 hs ago

well written and properly handled... It's a double edged sword I guess:

being more communicative: putting businesses at risk
being silent: community speculation and possible FUD

Not sure if there's a golden solution...

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Dixnorkel 9 hs ago

Don't forget, people are probably less likely to trust public announcements after this. I saw dozens of questions about the exchange wallets all being down.

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smooth_xmr XMR Core Team 7 hs ago

What public announcements were made that you wouldn't trust? As far as I know there was no public announcement prior to the above blog post and release of patches.

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Dixnorkel 7 hs ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9ikid6/there_is_no_known_bug_in_monero_that_is_impacting/ Really I just meant any positive responses will be met with more skepticism, I saw so many people accurately speculate about this bug that they'll probably just trust their gut next time instead of the official narrative. edit - Just realized it was you smooth, hope you've been well :)

7

crcondes 5 hs ago

That wasn't posted by a core dev though, right? I've read through that post a couple of times and as far as I can tell, that's just a community member reading through irc logs and deciding to post what they believe to be true, with a very emphatic title that turned out to be completely false. I'm with you in spirit - if that were one of the devs knowingly and fully lying to the public, that would be pretty bad, but I think it's also important to distinguish between an official statement and a very enthusiastic non-official statement

5

Dixnorkel 5 hs ago

You're right, and I agree, I should have emphasized that I meant it would make people more receptive to rumors, not that it discredited anyone on the team.

1

crcondes 4 hs ago

You're right too! I guess no matter who says it, having lots of speculation and then one person saying "look absolutely no bugs" then the developers say "oh hey there actually was a bug" isn't good for overall trust amongst the community. It's a tough situation no matter how you look at it.

2

Dixnorkel 3 hs ago

I appreciate that, and I think that this thread goes a long way in reestablishing what little credibility was lost. Any miscommunication or lack of communication really just requires recognition and assessment of what should happen next time to smooth over, so we're already on the way to fixing it. My feelings about it have been discussed, so at the very least I'm happy with the situation and ready to move on.

1

FlailingBorg 5 hs ago

You could say the fluffypony lines quoted in that post are an announcement and since the IRC channel is public that would make it a public announcement. I would say that's reaching.

1

crcondes 4 hs ago

You could say that. I think it's worth noting that in the quoted fluffypony lines he didn't outright say "there is no bug" but sort of sidestepped the question. Is that a form of dishonesty? Sure. Is it on par with telling blatant lies? Personally I don't think so, and (just from the lines quoted in that post anyway) I don't have a problem with how fluffy handled that conversation, but I'm curious what other people think.

3

WorldsMostDad 9 hs ago

Don't downvote this guy, he makes a valid point.

5

Dixnorkel 7 hs ago

I appreciate this, really glad that xmr is still one of the only crypto subs where zealotry isn't common. Always have great discussions around here despite my concerns about delisting of privacy coins, and you guys are helpful and informed too, that's equally hard to find in crypto.

3

xmr_pony 9 hs ago

b-but it doesnt matter that our decentralized project is ran behind the curtains by few people that keep everything important from their community, we can just use em as sheeps to fund our scams on FFS and then tell them after we > LIED < to them

0

WorldsMostDad 8 hs ago

You on the other hand I will gladly downvote.

3

obit33 9 hs ago

Look, I tried to reason with you... I actually think your idea for an independent code-audit isn't bad and community might fund it if you word it well and stop this ridiculous act of yours... I think you've been tollerated long enough now. It's up to you, do something positive with whatever (anger, frustration, sadness, ...) that's bothering you or leave. Keeping up this act of yours will make a ban well deserved imho...

14

xmr_pony 8 hs ago

lol, id rather see my kids die at birth than contribute in any way to this shitcoin scam. as for a ban, considering i have over 10k bruteforced reddit accounts and can upvote my self as much needed, i couldnt care less about one of em dying. its been obvs to me that /r/Monero community is borderline retarded screaming "PRIVACY" but this takes the cake, in a proper community that represents freedom, decentralization and privacy people who lied, caused bugs/exploits and got funded would be hanged and left in plain sight to rot. however on /r/Monero they are heroes! MOON!!!!

0

5HourSynergy 8 hs ago

“Considering I have over 10k bruteforced reddit accounts and can upvote myself as much needed.” Look at this bad ass. Never in my reddit career have I seen someone boast about how they have multiple accounts.

6

xmr_pony 8 hs ago

boast? i was merely implying the insignificance of banning me. 10k accounts are nothing, most people use simple passwords.

0

All_Work_All_Play 7 hs ago

Unless you have the salted tables off line, lockout attempts are going make your hit rate pretty low. But go ahead, substantiate your claim. Upvote either one of us to 1k.

6

xmr_pony 7 hs ago

yeah not like u can rent 10k proxies for $15, you really need to learn about how internet works instead of circlejerking on this sub.

0

Flenst 8 hs ago

Don't ban him, easier to identify :)

11

obit33 8 hs ago

yaya, just like your cartel raking in profitz... i get it, you're insane bye

6

TNSepta 10 hs ago

I'm pretty sure that the correct handling of such an issue is to disclose after everything's properly patched. This is industry standard for CVEs.

19

obit33 10 hs ago

I agree, but then we accept it's a (very) centralised process... 'Who' decides 'who' gets informed, 'when' is everything's patched, ...

8

fluffyponyza XMR Core Team 7 hs ago

The VRP workgroup does. Anyone can setup their own vulnerability response workgroup, of course, and handle reports they receive as they desire. That is how it is decentralised, not by exposing economically sensitive operators to attack for the sake of decentralisation.

12

obit33 7 hs ago

I certainly agree, just weighing pro's and cons... But am I misinterpreting or was there also doubt 'in the team' about how to handle this: aka, is there a 'fixed procedure' on how to proceed when things like this occur? I understand that it's certainly not always black or white off course....

2

fluffyponyza XMR Core Team 4 hs ago

No there wasn't doubt, more like frustration that things weren't as quick as possible. There is a fixed, documented procedure that is (more or less) followed, but that also gives lots of room for modifying and changing the process for a particular situation: r/https://github.com/monero-project/meta/blob/master/VULNERABILITY_RESPONSE_PROCESS.md

8

obit33 3 hs ago

Well, can't really ask for more... I think this was handled as good as it could, so kudos to the coreteam and big thank you for fixing this!

2

5HourSynergy 8 hs ago

Take another decentralized platform and apply the same reasoning. Human logic has to derive from somewhere; is it inevitable that some parts of crypto have to be centralized?

3

needmoney90 Moderator 11 hs ago

See the stickied post. We were extremely conflicted as to how to proceed in this situation, and will be having a serious discussion with the community about how to handle this kind of stuff in the future. Decentralized consensus is hard.

14

john_alan XMR Contributor 10 hs ago

Well handled in my opinion. Do we know if there was any exploitation?

12

needmoney90 Moderator 6 hs ago

None that we are aware of.

2

manicminer5 3 hs ago

I wrote a bit of code to scan for incidents (repeating public keys across different transactions, up to height 1669326) and this is what I came up with: Public key e9caab16ca3b489914ecc5f9b079de5eae75fb808cb2de6a2e897514ea413240 duplicated at: Height: 529417, tx hash: 9378214f9ebc5dcb97541cb70b1a0c89f507fe728547c97eee1f3c5d1a60d5c6 Height: 549619, tx hash: c275926a1d205bae8cf52f23333363649d231ef3fdf085a7dcb105470fec4a7f Public key e74631000c1091ff6c1fffff72d507ffa9c221fe17f9e7ff21e989016c52bcff duplicated at: Height: 1648005, tx hash: c5a0ae8b6fac123d875a678e3f544e4ebf51e842f0d4ebe72f46025aa0317086 Height: 1648028, tx hash: e7b33fddd00a3656454069e4e744771b42b7ebc211eaf0f65c2df51e215737c9 Public key 5c200fcbf22f7eb165b8be4d564521035ad5dccfdd41d82c7e3b1db8f28c4f7e duplicated at: Height: 1628234, tx hash: 3d20c5116d8d44f67d35dd7bbeb79fcec568108c3f9091f762ded56457ed20de Height: 1633269, tx hash: 0d9271976f0575f0376d22806131d8653e64e0a3a0e2b4212d2ec5d6e48a878f Public key 0ae30d475838c0d6c859a07db515d1335aab07210de691b33ed1409792031b85 duplicated at: Height: 977694, tx hash: 3a8c751f20f2ca6e3956dcf4c3bbb303f0e2d51e35dcf8d6b6eb7d8f35fa434f Height: 977739, tx hash: cacef2bcdbb115be01df933134ab7f7b85053dbe28d23ed8bc76fdf5fa0da27d Height: 977739, tx hash: 449ed2a1c3dfc9c50df817b7fd013519b0b5c58b1b7a6bc063a63cd80b7d09d3 Height: 978025, tx hash: 58f759773add099667ee91094b900e73d511ccbfbe58a1277540cd493cdbdb84 Height: 978113, tx hash: 0de44cb1680da996d681e942c6c6dd9f115eadc4c261cbec3638f13993f9a7df Height: 978116, tx hash: 3ab1d445deedde2b70bae011c54031bf05971177a43b1488ff2fd26812578c5a Height: 978281, tx hash: 75e7be2114012042a6559fb5e159d1ab01bdfa63443049f5e9575d98bfbdb4d6 Height: 980763, tx hash: 89edcf93864a7e4dc59f1e7517719705ac2a7e0df92eba919d6a9e1b7bab81cf Height: 980876, tx hash: 56223e6f5bc38f5f26478bebdbe13c636a89df527b9057bc32f2f3ef4a61a5c4 Height: 981001, tx hash: 3efc5dc937c9a243a24d303746220be1382c61889d050bfe3aa315929bc2d1e6 Height: 981001, tx hash: cd2da37ada166b17df726acbb30e25b36f0766dc12434d984f1fff3d7dc351b6 Height: 981002, tx hash: fa012ad526b5c42ad50041c97d2bea77ba22ff82bc5f92f1a31fa03617a61909 Height: 981002, tx hash: 65f5b4306036bfde0fb3857e5b75c5ad1073f369c0cbfa3f689ae5d001fc6a0c Height: 983393, tx hash: fb2ebb8b7a068cf3bafb6464a8ea3d4cbfa97c353203212e0a082c78eb9adbd6 Height: 983398, tx hash: de82314e1c959f29e2f65a41325399a05fc67eadd67ee5d5bbbd48cfcc894446 Height: 983398, tx hash: 8401960bba614aba88637d1775725e8ddd5973031ec63b3edf7f7f463c934932 Public key f8793e76085bf2deb2ddc5f2713c8e4a6f3b954c5113f554f0b32b2f79ad626d duplicated at: Height: 863532, tx hash: d9cdfa2129332907777b9645dc1b2a0f91d515addc237d8ecf910bb8db63d0eb Height: 863633, tx hash: c2f83bd4284d407459ae09d2428120a51433e4f0476e2b5f3391666900753efd

4

dnale0r XMR Contributor 2 hs ago

so only these are recent and potential "high value" attacks on exchanges: > e74631000c1091ff6c1fffff72d507ffa9c221fe17f9e7ff21e989016c52bcff > 5c200fcbf22f7eb165b8be4d564521035ad5dccfdd41d82c7e3b1db8f28c4f7e 2 instances. Maybe the attacked exchanges will come forward.

2

tuots 11 hs ago

Well written and detailed explanation. Thank you!

One detail that might add clarity: Linking is only possible for the reciever of such transactions. (At least I'm pretty sure that's the case.)

Edit: Whoups, never mind. Since P is identical it'll show up as exactly the same thing on the chain.

4

dEBRUYNE_1 Moderator 10 hs ago

>Linking is only possible for the reciever of such transactions. (At least I'm pretty sure that's the case.) A blockchain observer can scan for duplicate stealth addresses and thereafter match the transactions.

6

tuots 10 hs ago

You are, of course, absolutely right.

2

25 10

truantxoxo 56 mins ago

Strap in boys, we're going to Jupiter.

1

asso 3 hs ago

Hope this will be a good thing for the market to make a reversal in this long bear market

1

profittttt redditor for 6 weeks 3 hs ago

This is good for MU

1

reph 4 hs ago

You will have a hard time convincing me that there is absolutely no cynical market manipulation behind this.

Bitcoin too high, 70 year old super-rich get nervous? We ban ad now.

Bitcoin drop 70%? Ok we buy quietly then let ad again.

5

LumpyDiz 4 hs ago

Here comes Google-Coin

3

hodltaco 4 hs ago

Back in the day (2017) this news would instantly add $700-$1k tonthe price. Ah the good old days.

2

newforker 3 hs ago

Yup..a "dip" was -3%/24 hours..I member!

1

pr9i1 1 h ago

The mark moves on its own accord.. The news just pretends to be relevant

1

DrSilkyDelicious 4 hs ago

Bring in the Ted Mosby impersonator!!!

Crypto currency genius reveals next Tilray!

1

locotxwork 4 hs ago

"....and in other news Google has decide to start their own cryptocurrency!"

12

OminousNamazu 2 hs ago

Google was just buying the dip

1

danllo 5 hs ago

I knew this wouldn’t last long.

2

mikeishoots 5 hs ago

BULLLLLLLL RUNNNNNNNNNN

1

Incocknito23 5 hs ago

Everything is being prepared for another end of the year bullrun!

6

pr9i1 1 h ago

Yep

1

horatino 4 hs ago

IncOcknITO

1

The-Physicist 5 hs ago

Good news 😯

2

trance929 5 hs ago

This is definitely good news.
No, the price will most definitely not explode 'cause of this.
When the next bull run does come, Google enabling crypto ads will for sure help the price/eco-system as a whole.

25

Swigswoog7 redditor for 5 weeks 5 hs ago

This is bad. Only enables the scamming of the old or ignorant

1

Tinseltopia 5 hs ago

That's what fuelled the last run, it's why ETH blew up to $1400. All the ERC-20 scam coins

3

Swigswoog7 redditor for 5 weeks 2 hs ago

Well this is just wrong but even if it was true, is that really what you want to happen?

1

Tinseltopia 2 hs ago

Of course not, but why is it wrong? Why did ETH blow up to crazy levels?

1

Explodicle 2 hs ago

We saw a demonstration of how Bitcoin governance works. At the time, there was a common misconception that _consensus rules_ (not just tx/block order) were decided by whoever had the most proof of work. We're betting, not voting. The price doesn't go up that much because of ICO scams. It's because a lot of people saw what Bitcoin really is.

1

Scarface_74 6 hs ago

Google trends will go up again = price will follow = end of bear.

Not saying this is good (crypto-educated people enter) or bad (crypto-uneducated masses enter) but it is bullish news for the price.

0

Lv16 6 hs ago

Guess I should start clearing out room in the garage. We're going to the top!

2

dereckt 6 hs ago

Google has seen the light.

1

ettleboy 6 hs ago

Buckle up kids

3

artery_dissection 6 hs ago

sign of a bull run, HODL!

8

HarmonicOG 3 hs ago

FINALLY!!!!

1

BigJim05 6 hs ago

I remember when the Google ad ban was first news and everyone was blaming the bear market on it.

So... where's the bull market now that the ban is over?

Or maybe it didn't make a difference back then either.

9

pr9i1 1 h ago

Said adds start again in October..

1

Ooomar 6 hs ago

The new policy goes live next month, and will require some time to go into effect as advertisers must certify themselves with Google.

5

CRFlixxx 6 hs ago

Or they banned ads so the price would go down, bought lots of Bitcoin to HODL, and now with ads back they're waiting for the top to sell?

8

allthatwastedtime 3 hs ago

I’ll grab my tinfoil hat.

1

emreddit 7 hs ago

but I did not end google ban :)

31

GET_OUT_OF_MY_HEAD 4 hs ago

DuckDuckGo FTW Shame there isn't an equivalent YouTube alternative... (Nor a good Android alternative. \*sigh*)

11

ethanialw 3 hs ago

Librem 5 when

1

RedRage04 4 hs ago

Bitchute has potential, but there's a long road ahead. We definitely need some fresh blood in the smartphone game.

1

sleepyokapi 4 hs ago

What about maps? I can't stand Google map anymore

1

talgatsby 7 hs ago

Good

1

SpontaneousDream 8 hs ago

Who are these people dumb enough to actually buy some random crypto after seeing an ad on Google? Teenagers? Senile old people?

111

bit584 13 mins ago

*teenager buys shitcoin* *Changes Facebook occupation to investor*

1

_3Jasmine3_ redditor for 3 months 22 mins ago

Partial lifting of ban

1

aaaaaaaarrrrrgh 34 mins ago

Clueless people who don't really understand the technology, but do "understand" the "look at these people who got filthy rich by investing a few bucks into Bitcoin" articles their "news" sources are feeding them. Add some ads that specifically target this sort of people, and you have the reason why the SEC is regulating stock sales to individuals...

1

flaghacker_ 1 h ago

Honestly who are these people dumb enough to see an ad and then proceed to not 100% ignore it? I simply cannot wrap my head around the fact that those generic ads you see everywhere online work at all.

1

SpontaneousDream 1 h ago

totally agree. Seems like common sense to me, but common sense apparently isn't very common.

1

zomgitsduke 1 h ago

People who have severe FOMO and jealousy issues, combined with a lack of knowledge and an ego that would tell them otherwise. People aren't buying the crypto, they're buying the dream.

1

spooklordpoo 1 h ago

Even Nigerian prince e-mail scammers have success.

1

pr9i1 1 h ago

Advertising actually works

1

CurrentCredit redditor for 3 months 2 hs ago

Probably a ton of people in here who thought it was a way to get rich quick.

1

comp21 3 hs ago

This was a ban on _anything_ crypto... I teach online, can't advertise it... I specialize in helping older investors learn how crypto works and, more importantly (to me anyway), how to store it themselves safely... Can't advertise that either ... Helped a client get their BTC back that they sent to a BCH address... Can't advertise that either... It destroyed my business.

1

facetiousjesus 3 hs ago

Some of the adverts they were running were incredibly well played scams. For instance Mobius had an impersonator that had a website nearly identical as theirs except they were accepting only ETH. Someone that didn't know better than to click the Ad versus the actual Mobius website would've been fooled. I contacted Google and the team at Mobius and they were aware. Google still wouldn't remove the ad. They dgaf as long as they are making money.

1

HelpNickTheBaller redditor for 3 months 3 hs ago

I work at an entry level job $12.50 and hour, people think bitcoin is either a scam or have no idea what it's about. It's sad becuase I truly think this is just one way people who are poor or stuck in poverty can get out. Part of the problem is poor people are afraid of investing, or at least in my experience in talking to people. Investing and researching opportunities are rarely taught in state school.

1

Jyontaitaa 45 mins ago

Yes so because of fear of scams they don’t save there money and instead squander it on meaningless junk produced in the third world, lovely

1

facetiousjesus 3 hs ago

Too bad they missed the boat. KYC/AML and institutional investor laws have now made it nearly impossible for the little man to get in on the ground floor of a project. Granted a lot of ICOs were bullshit. I think the VC firms lobbied hard for this. If it weren't for ICO disrupting the VC model I doubt the SEC would've given a shit about crypto for another couple years. They would've continued the hurr Durr it's a scam narrative.

1

L0ckeandDemosthenes 4 hs ago

Thanks just bought 100k

2

liquefire81 redditor for 3 months 4 hs ago

People are still falling for the nigerian prince scam so....

2

anthonyrjwood 4 hs ago

I’m still waiting for my 8 million

2

albaniax 2 hs ago

Finaly I found you, where where you my prince? You're email don't arrive. I was looking everywere. You money is ready, only pay the confirmation fee of 400$ to me with Western Union, then you can take your thrown again. Please response PM sir /u/anthonyrjwood king

1

anthonyrjwood 2 hs ago

BRB, currently forking out cash to a much needed Doctor who’s stranded in Uganda and doesn’t have access to their 12 million inheritance.

1

PresidentEstimator 5 hs ago

It explicitly states in their [Update to financial products and services policy](https://support.google.com/adspolicy/answer/9142422?hl=en&ref_topic=29265) that they will allow regulated cryptocurrency exchanges to advertise in Japan and the United States. So, I'm thinking Coinbase here.

3

braichy 6 hs ago

You will be surprised

1

tommygunz007 6 hs ago

I am going to Bitcoin.com to sign up today to buy some Ripple or Zcash.

1

MarkBittner redditor for 3 months 7 hs ago

Don't underestimate the power of Adwords. That little ad section below everyone's search bar represents [70.9%](https://www.statista.com/statistics/266249/advertising-revenue-of-google/) of Google's revenues.

18

CryptoZenIsBitcoin redditor for 3 months 2 hs ago

If it was really valuable they'd probably have a token we could buy and sell with each other that represents it's value...

1

Ooomar 2 hs ago

Yeah, their stock.

1

dmar198 6 hs ago

Google's ads are also displayed on a bunch of other sites, and in a bunch of apps, so the revenue doesn't all come from the stuff under the search bar. But yeah.

8

elo_thc 8 hs ago

I've bought electroneum in ico after i saw an ad on facebook and a little of research. I made over 10x profit. So i guess i was lucky ,)

3

OvrWtchAccnt 8 hs ago

Howd it turn out?

1

elo_thc 7 hs ago

I've sold it around $0.12. So i was pretty happy

2

Ooomar 7 hs ago

ICO price was $0.01. It went as high as $0.18 (18x). Now it's hovering a little above ICO price at $0.012. Also has a huge supply at 8 billion coins.

2

OvrWtchAccnt 7 hs ago

Not bad

1

Richard__Grayson 8 hs ago

I believe senile old teenagers were the target market.

138

ysirwolf 4 hs ago

Old post-teenager here, can confirm

1

SolidFaiz 7 hs ago

Thanks to you I know have to clean my screen from the coffee I spit while laughing after which everyone in the office is looking at me

2

Foreisman 6 hs ago

What did you tell them made you laugh?

1

SolidFaiz 6 hs ago

I told them marketeers discovered a new demographic that can be identified as “senile old teenagers” Nobody laughed...

1

Foreisman 6 hs ago

You must work somewhere were they understand nothing of marketing and the easily marketed too lol.

1

SolidFaiz 5 hs ago

Finance department not a marketeers best friend

1

Foreisman 7 hs ago

Yup, the prime fomo demographic that will flood in without doing any research. They're probably all the bagholders of BCH Roger Ver tricked into believing it's the real bitcoin. I remember when I first got in I was sketched out as hell as to where I would buy, and where I would store my nest egg; looked into the biggest most secure exchange to make sure I was getting real BTC and not paying for some shitcoin, or even worse, some fakecoin with my hard earned shitty fiat currency. To be fair though, I had a hint that I must dive deep ever since I cashed out some ad credit from those apps that put ads on your phone in exchange for giftcards, cash, and/or crypto. Had around 20 dollars I cashed out into bitcoin that would be worth 2000 dollars today if it were real. Quickly realized when I couldn't withdraw the crypto into another wallet that I had been scammed, shortly after the app went defunct all together confirming my fears. Should've just cashed out the 20 in cash and put it into bitcoin myself instead of trusting them to do it for me. Took almost 8 months of putting up with ads on my lockscreen just to get those 20 dollars of credit I foolishly trusted them to exchanged for their fake bitcoin. But on the bright side, it taught me a valuable lesson on researching exchanges and wallets when I was finally ready to start selling my hard earned cash for my precious coins.

7

AquilaK 5 hs ago

Strange how your account was almost never used before today...

0

Foreisman 5 hs ago

What you tryna say Willis? That I aged this account for 9 months just to shit on Roger Ver? Can't a long time lurker just eventually decide to dip his toes in the water without being accused of something? This is why lurkers stay lurkers.

12

ZornBear 1 h ago

LUKR! 

1

AquilaK 4 hs ago

Go back to lurking then.

0

AgentLead_TTV redditor for 7 weeks 4 hs ago

way to go, dick. what is the problem? you mad or something? i dont get the hostility.

1

AquilaK 3 hs ago

Wasn't trying to be hostile, was just pointing it out.

1

p2pcurrency 2 hs ago

It came off pretty hostile tbh. I only bother to tell you this because I think the crypto community has a pretty big problem when it comes to inclusiveness. You don't need to look any further than how women are treated in this space to see this issue. Keep supporting crypto, but don't forget that for this whole thing to succeed we need everyone on board.

1

Foreisman 4 hs ago

Ohh, did I hit a nerve there with my Roger Ver line? Sad that this subreddit doesn't care for your shitty fake Bitcoin Cash/BCH? Edit: *Holy shit, I was right.[ Guy is a BCH hodler](https://old.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7i6y8y/diversifying_portfolio/). Guess I did strike a nerve with that line.*

7

mickhick95 3 hs ago

Dood, i think you are on the same side as the people you are arguing with.

1

[deleted] 3 hs ago

[deleted]

1

mickhick95 3 hs ago

Bye

1

AquilaK 3 hs ago

I think he might be a bit slow... I don't know though. I saw large wall of text and I looked at the account post history and saw nothing for a long time. I didn't even get past a few lines of his text either.

1

Foreisman 1 h ago

You sound like an excellent detective. Doesn't read, just looks through an account to see what their history is. I'm trying to advocate for people to do their own research with my own personal experience & I'm the one who's slow guys. Meanwhile you come off attacking me because I haven't posted much. Which is funny, because the reason I don't post or comment much is because of assholes like you who attack someone at their first attempt. You'll definitely drive people deciding to interact with the community to be more active with that approach.

1

v0xb0x_ 8 months old | 11642 karma | Karma CC: 1858 VEN: 8 8 hs ago

Time to pump shitcoins!

1

UnknownPurpose Positive | 5 months old 8 hs ago

So when moon?

2

twigwam Positive | 5 months old | 90404 karma 8 hs ago

tonight. after the sun

2

10 16 3

EternityForest 12 mins ago

That's so cool! I'm not the biggest scuttlebutt fan because it doesn't let you delete/edit old entries, but this looks like one of the first mobile decentralized social network out there, and decentralized isn't going anywhere if it doesn't work on mobile too.

1

Demian1980 3 hs ago

Must be a good app because my phone won't allow me to install it...

1

Nomikos 3 hs ago

Any chance of a release that runs on regular desktops? for us old guys that like our keyboards and large screens.. o.o

Edit: ah, Horizon 4, next year. That works!

2

ahdinosaur 3 hs ago

hi Nomikos, yes there are many other desktop [apps that run on the same Scuttlebutt protocol](https://www.scuttlebutt.nz/applications), the most popular of which is [Patchwork](https://www.scuttlebutt.nz/applications#patchwork). Manyverse is only the latest app in the ecosystem. :)

2

Nomikos 3 hs ago

Thank you, ahdinosaur, this is really interesting. I had looked at tent.io and diaspora and a few others and even considered coding something from scratch.. but here it is. Here's hoping for mass adoption!

2

hexydes 6 hs ago

How does this actually work? It vaguely says that it can sync via wifi (which makes sense) or the Internet (which needs explaining). If I have a friend that lives in another state, how do we sync each other's content so we can see updates without being on the same physical local network?

3

ahdinosaur 5 hs ago

hi hexydes, you can sync over wifi using either [pubs](https://www.scuttlebutt.nz/concepts/pub) (peers who are always online and have a public ip address) or Manyverse added [direct p2p connections using a DHT](https://github.com/mafintosh/discovery-swarm). in both cases, either the pub or one DHT peer creates an invite code, sends it through some external channel to the other peer, who consumes the invite code. hope that helps! if not, happy to answer more questions. `=^.^=`

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hexydes 4 hs ago

Thank you! So the pubs are sort of like perpetual instances that both clients can connect through?

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ahdinosaur 4 hs ago

the pubs are normal peers, so as with any peer you replicate the latest gossip from mutual friends. we're keen to evolve them to be more like another device (%Gwqklkj0b2CBT5tPiz5170NWsPp3xiuLbOImEaG/e+4=.sha256) that the pub owner controls and use them to bootstrap direct peer-to-peer connections (%iqXoP//+WnBt3UhTKK2uKjlV4EojMn8IjY5/rSLKdPY=.sha256).

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jarymut 6 hs ago

They have so many NOs on their website, I hoped I could find it on F-droid.

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ahdinosaur 5 hs ago

hi jarymut, an F-droid release is planned: https://twitter.com/manyver_se/status/1044569401595514880

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jarymut 4 hs ago

Oh, I did not realise this app is so new. Thanks!

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ahdinosaur 7 hs ago

hi, if anyone wants to start with a public social network (instead of building one with your existing friends), here's an invite: 🎁

many.butt.nz:8008:@o3OcykTU7zdsm+WKoGl74XAoyDI/SWlVbIeyHHinQXQ=.ed25519~Se1dEm/vb/9c/pKs9eqGY7514p0b7KdR5/+myMIKCKo=

welcome to the 'verse! ☀️⛵️🌈

4

qznc_bot 8 hs ago

There is a discussion on Hacker News, but feel free to comment here as well.

1

random_dent 9 hs ago

Sounds like diaspora, except if it runs on your phone instead of needing to set up your own server node it may be a lot easier to build a network.

4

preslavrachev 6 hs ago

Yes, and this fact alone makes it so interesting. Think of the all the people who’d simply download the app and start a node, instead of having to set things up.

3

Geir568 11 hs ago

Should automatically suggest hubs. They way it is now I think it's to complicated for users not familiar with SSB.

4

spaceboypurp 57 mins ago

Yeah, if you're like me and don't have any friends, it just looks like there's no content and no hope of being any.

1

apefist 11 hs ago

Interesting.

1

ndarilek - @ndarilek 9 hs ago

Does SSB still make it impossible to share a single identity across multiple devices? (I.e. I'd like to log into my identity from my laptop but see that same identity's feed on my phone.)

I want to participate, but periodically I check https://www.scuttlebutt.nz/faq/applications/multiple-devices... and it hasn't changed, and for me, having a single device to which the entirety of my identity is tied is a non-starter. Even so, the tech seems interesting, and I hope that limitation goes away one day.

superkuh - @superkuh 9 hs ago

This actually sounds like a pretty great idea. Self hosting content is the only reliable way to prevent the perverse incentives and costs of centralization. But only having mobile apps for it makes it useless.

b2ccb2 - @b2ccb2 10 hs ago

To anyone using a degoogled Android phone: A F-Droid release IS planned [1].

[1] https://twitter.com/manyver_se/status/1044569401595514880

Grumbledour - @Grumbledour 10 hs ago

I really do like SSB in concept, but I am kinda sad that it seems to fit mainly for social networks. I would like to see something more discussion/topic focused than user centric, but of course with the whole peer to peer and offline aspects.

kickscondor - @kickscondor 10 hs ago

One of my issues with Secure Scuttlebutt is that it is difficult to participate unless you already know other people there. I joined and began messaging other users and commenting on the community hashtags - only to discover that no one was going to get my messages until they subscribed to me. This means that I either need to message those users outside of the network - or I need to run into them irl.

Is this a feature of SSB or a bug? I mean once I'm in the network and well-entrenched, I could see it being a feature. But how do I even get to that point? (Oh and does Manyverse address this at all? Sorry I don't have Android.)

travisluis - @travisluis 10 hs ago

Can anybody explain the important differences between this and Briar/Bramble[1]?

[1] https://dymaxion.org/essays/briarvision.html previously discussed at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18027949

eximius - @eximius 8 hs ago

Hm, if the author happens to be on here: I can't seem to email bug reports.

"Unfortunately, your email to GitLab could not be processed. We couldn't find the project. Please check if there's any typo."

Also, are issues turned off on the repo?

crypt0x - @crypt0x 10 hs ago

podcastphile people new to the concept of ssb might find this episode interesting: https://stealthisshow.com/s04e04/

personjerry - @personjerry 7 hs ago

As a normal user, I have seen 0 reasons to switch off of Facebook here that I care about, and I don't even understand how it works.

sne11ius - @sne11ius 8 hs ago

I like the concept and installed the android app. Unfortunately, I wouldn't call it a beta version. I would say alpha since it seems to ... lack a lot. I was even unable to report a bug via the in-app mail link. Got a response that there is no such project on gitlab ;)

ron0c - @ron0c 9 hs ago

But what if your friends are boring?

TACIXAT - @TACIXAT 10 hs ago

I've installed this, if anyone wants a friend, email me an invite thing or I can email you one. Email in bio.

ahdinosaur - @ahdinosaur 7 hs ago

hi, if anyone wants to start with a public social network (instead of building one with your existing friends), here's an invite:

many.butt.nz:8008:@o3OcykTU7zdsm+WKoGl74XAoyDI/SWlVbIeyHHinQXQ=.ed25519~Se1dEm/vb/9c/pKs9eqGY7514p0b7KdR5/+myMIKCKo=

welcome to the 'verse! ️️

fareesh - @fareesh 9 hs ago

What are some solutions to posting something that you later regret? Pretty much nothing is my guess since it's like sending an email and regretting it later.

Does the sync allow for deletion too?

camdenlock - @camdenlock 6 hs ago

“Off the grid”... but only offering an app for the Google person-tracking platform (Android)...?

Jahak - @Jahak 8 hs ago

the source code of the server is closed?

Show all comments on Hackernews

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AdamSC1 Mod /r/CryptoCurrency & /r/EthTrader 8 hs ago

Removed. This news story has no confirmation from Coinbase.

1

kbrown84 Redditor for 29 days. 13 hs ago

Seems very complicated. I can't imagine taking all my trades for altcoins and keeping all that data to report to the IRS. Seems absurd lol

2

martinkarolev 7 months old | Karma CC: 299 XVG: 450 13 hs ago

I start liking Coinbase.

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sandiegoog Karma CC: 296 BTC: 379 13 hs ago

"Pro traders" are going to be using bakkt not coinbase LOL

9

malakame 3 - 4 years account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. 10 hs ago

what is bakkt? why should I trust bakkt more than coinbase ? lol

1

sandiegoog Karma CC: 296 BTC: 379 2 hs ago

Intercontinental Exchange is opening bakkt which also operates the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE)... you shouldnt trust anyone except yourself but bakkt offers a way for people to have access to bitcoin with insurance. if coinbase gets hacked your bitocin are gone, the 250k FDIC is to your USD wallet on coinbase not your bitcoin.

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fuckermaster3000 Negative | 4 months old | Karma CC: 2140 11 hs ago

This looks like the classic partnerships in crypto. One side (usually the shit startup) confirms partnerships with a giant. However Coinbase is nowhere to be seen here, no press release from them. Lol.

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TheBullishGuy 2 months old | Karma CC: 432 BTC: 2585 12 hs ago

Agree

1

Historical_Cockroach 14 hs ago

I'm a pro trader, where do I sign.

3

harmonic101 Positive | Karma CC: 240 ETH: 2950 10 hs ago

With GVT ;-)

4

unhornted 7 months old | 16536 karma | New to crypto 13 hs ago

Give me some pro trader tip

4

CarInABoxx Karma CC: 59 13 hs ago

Buy the DIP....

1

Clowd81 Karma CC: 809 13 hs ago

Don't listen to tips that people from Reddit give you

1

SpaaceMILK 48275 karma | Karma CC: 1271 NANO: 340 11 hs ago

But if I listened to that tip i'd be listening to tips from people on reddit but if I didn't and continue to listen to tips from reddit I would technically not conciously listen to tips from reddit? So listen to and don't listen at the same time?

1

Articulat3 10 hs ago

mind=blown

1

AwayGriffin 13 hs ago

Don't listen to tips that people from Reddit give you What you do now.

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bookoftheforest 13 hs ago

Buy low sell high

7

odin021 3 months old 14 hs ago

Great news to the project they team up with, i would like to get coinbase on my side

10

Gabem_29 14 hs ago

Who wouldn't?

2

girlj321 New to crypto 14 hs ago

I guess that old people, animals, people how drive Prius, Jofri from Game of Thrones, Smeagol and Macfee

9

dracorev 14 hs ago

Macfee was a nice touch

1

helenxxx New to crypto 14 hs ago

Coinbase is like the Ironbank

1

CarInABoxx Karma CC: 59 13 hs ago

Brian Armstrong = Theon greyjoi CZ = Jon Snow 🗡

1

dfksone 14 hs ago

So a broker like platform, I've seen few but they were trash.

4

wikidemic CC: 19 karma Yesterday

Wow, Caspian launched 2 weeks ago! Untarnished rep!

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7 8

We are excited to launch our new reactions feature that allows you to display how you feel about a product update - using an emoji 👍 - in our feed.

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#DeFi Summit is a community event that will be comprised of developer workshops and intimate discussions centered around Decentralized Finance. #DeFi Summit aims to be a unique gathering in that we're ditching the typical presentation-and-panel-style, instead focusing on participatory breakout sessions and technica..

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almondicecream 1 h ago

Here is some news that supports how crucial this deal is. Look who's on the panel: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/24/lawmakers-venture-capitalists-and-crypto-companies-descend-on-on-capitol-hill-to-debate-regulation.html

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ebwvibfhwbovchwdshjd 15 hs ago

What I don't get out this is what doe A16Z get? The coin itself is meant to accrue value (reflected in price) (talking about MKR here)?

Because I was under the impression MKR is a liquidation mechanism. But I might be off by miles.

Thanks.

And congrats.

1

pear_to_pear 10 hs ago

MKR is a governance token. It should appreciate in value through good governance (MKR burned as fees), and depreciate through bad governance (more MKR minted to pay off bad debt if the value of the debt isn't enough to cover it). So on a simplistic level they're hoping MKR appreciates in value and will do what they can to achieve that

1

richyboycaldo Yesterday

To make it sound like he actually bought MKR. He did not buy any.

0

tophertroniic 2 - 3 years account age. 300 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

“a16z crypto has purchased 6% of the total MKR token supply“ ???

3

psswrd12345 Yesterday

Great job, Maker team! A16z will be a perfect partner for what you [we] are trying to accomplish. Very nicely done.

2

billybumbag Yesterday

How would this affect the price of the maker token, directly or indirectly?

0

diegocerdan 15 hs ago

It will clearly rise: 1. MakerDAO gets $15MM of funding 2. a16z invest in MakerDAO, buying up to 6% 3. a16z supports MakerDAO as a partnership Already up 5% since the announcement.

1

crypt0troll Lambo Yesterday

Maker sell out. Forget this coin

0

blockheadcrypto Redditor for 5 months. Yesterday

Something bullish for Rchain too - maker is being ported to that platform as well.

0

Recovery1980 Yesterday

Link?

1

blockheadcrypto Redditor for 5 months. Yesterday

https://www.reddit.com/r/RChain/comments/9fih2c/daos_on_rchain/?st=JMGUPOWN&sh=b54fba87

1

Link-Help-Bot Redditor for 15 days. Yesterday

[Here you go.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

0

almondicecream Lover Yesterday

Damn. Look at Katy Haus bio

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/kathryn-haun

7

LamboshiNakaghini Redditor for 9 months. Yesterday

She's on the board of directors of coinbase. Forget about it boys we are going to the moon.

4

All_Work_All_Play I <3 Variance Yesterday

Those are all buzzwords. I got three buzzword bingos from that page alone.

2

almondicecream Lover Yesterday

When you're a stanford professor and clerk a supreme court judge you earn the right to use whatever words you want.

4

kwadrax Redditor for 9 months. Yesterday

With an exciting fall full of announcements, MakerDAO is making its mark as a vanguard of blockchain technology. The team looks forward to continued product excellence and rapid Dai adoption in the coming months.

Lots more to come ...

9

LamboshiNakaghini Redditor for 9 months. Yesterday

I figure a new tab full of DAI pairs on binance would cost a few million at least...

1

silkblueberry Yesterday

1,000,000 MKR Supply * 6% = 60,000 MKR tokens to a16z

$15,000,000 / 60,000 = $250 per MKR token

Current market price is about $450 per MKR

That's almost 50% off. Sweet deal for the big boys.

That said, it's very bullish that a16z sees MKR as a good investment and will be supporting it. MKR is an awesome project that has proved it's value.

27

kingofcairo 1 - 2 years account age. 200 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

Exactly. This is fucked up. I like Maker, but homeboy discounts and the difficulty of obtaining maker currently prevent me from investing

0

tophertroniic 2 - 3 years account age. 300 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

And you see no relationship between your difficulty of obtaining MKR and their discount on a block trade? As I posted above, this $15 mil exchange was greater than the entire MKR volume of the last 30 days. By 30%.

1

Mirzaak Redditor for 8 months. Yesterday

This. Everyone on heire should know the full story. Instead of buying like everybody else from open market, big boys already made profit by cutting a deal with the team and getting a 50% discount to a coin thats already trading. He sells now he made almost 15 mln. Bullsht

14

tophertroniic 2 - 3 years account age. 300 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

Oy. MKR holders have governance over the MakerDAO. By taking a material number of tokens, AH is bringing their expertise to the project, and has real world votes to influence the execution of the project, and skin in the game. They didn’t go through this deal to flip the tokens and market sell. Additionally, AH has “been investing in crypto assets for 5+ years. We’ve never sold any of those investments, and don’t plan to any time soon.” Does anyone here offer “full operational support from the 80+ person Andreessen Horrowitz a16z team?” No? Maybe bring something to the table and then you might be able to negotiate a private deal. It’s a god damn $15 million exchange and MKR is very thinly traded. **CoinMarketCap shows $11.4 million of volume total for the last 30 days!** It would be **expected** to be sold at a discount in such an illiquid market.

2

Owdy ... Yesterday

There's nowhere near enough liquidity for that. They'd make at most 500k profit if they traded at market price.

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tophertroniic 2 - 3 years account age. 300 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

Great point - And the Maker team would have an equally hard time raising $15 mil cash without this deal. They would have to sell and tank the price.

3

JohnCryptoRambo Yesterday

I’m so sick of this shit. Every big player buys out the back door and waits on us little guys to buy and pump the price for them. The story keeps repeating when you dig deep enough about all the partnerships and hedge funds “getting in.” There are two prices for things and we need the big guys to buy on the market but they never do.

0

ngin-x Miner Yesterday

Agreed. If all the big players just buy OTC from the team, then what are we little guys holding on to these tokens for? We take all the risk buying early and once the product has proven itself, a big shark comes along and gets a big chunk of the pie at half the market price at zero risk. This is why we can't have nice things.

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Owdy ... Yesterday

Big players are taking big risks.

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ngin-x Miner Yesterday

What big risk? The little guys who invested in this project back in 2015 when there was nothing more than a whitepaper are the ones who took all the risk. Maker is now more or less a proven product and team just has to upscale their operations. Investing big money at this stage is hardly a risk. There is no justification for selling 50% below market price. They should been told to buy off our hands from the open market.

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Owdy ... 8 hs ago

There was risk in 2015 at a low price and there's risk now at a higher price in a low liquidity asset. Maybe you can tell us how it's a low risk after you buy 30x the daily volume of a certain asset. They were never gonna buy at market price. Them buying OTC doesn't pump the price, but the founders selling doesn't crash it either. Transactions are between two parties.

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monkey_in_the_bushes Redditor for 10 months. Yesterday

It totally is dude, but at least they're buying the same MKR we are and not some bullshit accredited-investor-only shares. It's progress.

9

krollAY Yesterday

It kinda sucks on a short time frame, but a16z is a pretty well known and well respected VC that has a reputation to maintain and an already good track record from what I’ve read. This isn’t a pump and dump where they got a discount and then they sell. We don’t know the full terms of the agreement, but they should be contributing quite a bit via governance and risk proposals and connecting talent to the Maker ecosystem. I’m pretty excited myself.

1

Nathaniel_Higgers Yesterday

It would not look good if the team was dumping tokens on the open market. This seems more like a strategic partnership.

3

Robin_Hood_Jr Maker fan Yesterday

VCs aren't in the business of making 2x returns. That would be considered a failure. VC shoot for the moon to make 1000x and invest uniquely in things that have that potential. 9 out of 10 (and probably more than that) will go to 0, but they make their returns off of the 1 that does succeed.

12

ngin-x Miner Yesterday

From what I have seen this year, VCs have been buying ICO allocations and reselling them to pools at 1.5x to 2x their acquisition price. So it seems they are perfectly fine with 2x returns. VCs are not stupid. They know that 2x is still a lot of money when investment size is $100m.

1

Owdy ... Yesterday

Nice story but multipliers only make sense if you look at the timeframe and risk.

0

kwadrax Redditor for 9 months. Yesterday

Most of their tokens are locked for 1-3 years and they will be a big part in the succeeding of this project because of the people and connections they can add to it. Sure they will profit but that's what every investor wants no? So maybe you shouldn't comment "the full story" if you don't know it yourself.

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ngin-x Miner Yesterday

> Sure they will profit but that's what every investor wants no? Profit shouldn't be guaranteed like this though. The team should have told them to buy at market price and then earn that profit like everyone else by holding on. By selling 50% below market price and that too at these bottom barrel prices, they have essentially taken all risk out of the investment. This is not the right way to attract investment IMO.

2

plaenar ETH maximalist Yesterday

Are any of their newly acquired 60,000 MKR tokens time locked though?

2

kwadrax Redditor for 9 months. Yesterday

> so they have 10k MKR that is free, 20k MKR that has a lockup of 1 year, and 40k MKR that has a lockup of 3 years, as far as I'm aware > there's definitely no other stablecoin they are engaged with at the same level. There's a difference between just being an investment and then being a part of the core portfolio From [Maker chat](https://chat.makerdao.com/channel/general?msg=kLgbE3rhLZ4GMueWx) by /u/rune4444

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QryptoQid 1 - 2 years account age. 200 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

They're balls deep in Basis and Trust Token which is backing TrueUSD

1

lazerswimmer 3 - 4 years account age. 50 - 100 comment karma. Yesterday

>there's definitely no other stablecoin they are engaged with at the same level. There's a difference between just being an investment and then being a part of the core portfolio is that panthera capital or A16?

2

QryptoQid 1 - 2 years account age. 200 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

a16z is definitely involved with both. Pantera is in Basis... I don't know if they're in Trust, but I don't see them on https://www.trusttoken.com/ nor do I see TrustToken on Pantera's site.

1

Theft_Via_Taxation Yesterday

And EOS lmao

6

directdirt Yesterday

a16zcrypto hasn't publicly disclosed any investment in EOS. What's your point?

3

postscapes Yesterday

Besides regulatory help from Katie Haun, any talks with them about getting Dai integrated into their other crypto portfolio projects?

4

Lifeofahero Yesterday

You mean DFINITY? That’ll probably get solved by Cosmos or Polkadot when necessary.

3

lolisakirisame Yesterday

> As a first mover and innovator in stablecoins

Dao is great, but definitely not a first mover. There is also no need to frame ourselves as first movers - a lot of first mover dont make it - PARC, AOL, Yahoo, etc

4

Lifeofahero Yesterday

>a lot of first mover dont make it - PARC, AOL, Yahoo, etc The focus is really on executing MCD to ensure that Dai is the dominant stablecoin. I wouldn't nitpick these little things, the team has the right long term approach.

1

tarpmaster Yesterday

Definitely IS a first mover. First to launch a decentralized stablecoin. By the way, there is a whole credit system associated with it.

4

lolisakirisame Yesterday

bitcny/nubit is both 3 yrs old. the latter one fail though, but it is way earlier then dai. mcd is new, but that I count as innovation.

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o1d0r 1 - 2 year account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. Yesterday

...loading up my bags! MKR & DAI The most useful application in the space to further use cases for crypto. love makerdao. Watch your cdp's boys

28

[deleted] Yesterday

[deleted]

6

sysaddict WARNING: 6 - 7 years account age. 0 - 22 comment k Yesterday

DAI will stay at 1 USD

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o1d0r 1 - 2 year account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. Yesterday

Can't wait for multi collateral dai.

3

cyounessi Yesterday

Ah my bad I misread your original comment.

5

classic_katapult Yesterday

At what price did Andreessen Horowitz buy in? Also $250 like Az16z?

1

BankerWhoLeavesAt420 Yesterday

at a 25% market price discount, apparently

2

Farfooz 5 - 6 years account age. 300 - 600 comment karma. Yesterday

A16z is the same as Andreessen Horowitz, they aren’t two different VCs

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classic_katapult Yesterday

Thx

3

ckd001 Yesterday

Actually paying $250 when the market price is $450 is a scandal. I would have turned it around on them and sold the 30k to them at market (similar cash in) then paid them with MKR at market prices for specific legal, regulatory, and political lobbying services provided - tied to concrete milestones and all that. you could easily have hired top lawyers, marketers and lobbyists for far less than $15m. Anyway, don’t want to rain on your parade - but i hope you have contractual commitments to these services, and clawbacks in case they don’t deliver

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almondicecream 2 hs ago

You don't get how important the source of funding is or how big a deal a16z is. Lawyers, marketers, lobbyists aren't enough on their own and the best ones are also selective about what work they take on. You also don't get who Katie Haun is. Look at her CV https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/kathryn-haun Effectively, she's one the top crypto lobbyists in the USA.

1

u123454321 15 hs ago

Not sure I agree that the discount is a scandal but would be nice to see a quantified high level overview of what we receive in return for the discount.

1

Rune4444 Yesterday

\>you could easily have hired top lawyers, marketers and lobbyists We are also hiring top talent, in conjunction with this deal and others like it. What's great about deals like these is that the resources come as a full package, so they don't take significant onboarding overhead and can be done in parallel with our internal buildout. It's about firing on all cylinders and being able to strike with full force at the critical moment when multi collateral dai is done and our first mover advantage as an ethereum based decentralized stablecoin is at it highest. We'll only really get one chance to either make it or break it, and if we succeed in reaching critical mass our position will be much more secure in the future. You have to consider that regulation is one of the most important areas we need to focus on in order for the project to succeed. With that in mind, we felt it was important to work with someone who deeply understands both the regulatory landscape and also the nuance and innovation that makes projects like Maker fundamentally new and unique. Katie's background is a perfect fit. She was on the federal government's crypto task force and has since been entrenched in private innovation in the space for years. After getting to know her and the team we concluded they'd make the best partners to help us ensure our compliance efforts are on the right track. To me it is clear that given this is our biggest challenge and threat, and given that we have such a strong leadership position in all other fields but regulation, there is no reason to compromise.

25

rektisme Yesterday

I admire the sense of urgency and the laser-like focus displayed here. I just hope those vultures (Polychain and Az16) don't take you out for a ride. Basis, Maker, Reserve, TrustToken, etc. they all look the same to them... just a means to an end. They will throw anybody under the bus in favor of the next new shiny thing that makes their pocketbooks happy.

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Lifeofahero Yesterday

Those “vultures” you’re talking about are: 1. Katie Haun 2. Jesse Walden 3. Olaf Carlson-Wee 4. Chris Dixon 5. Nick Tomaino Have you watched any videos on these people? They seem like good people to me. As far as shiny things go, well duh. They’re investors with excess capital and they’ll invest in similar projects like Basis, however, even Joey Krug said Maker is farther ahead then anyone else at the moment on crypto trader. IMO Maker is best positioned to win the stablecoin market. Let’s see what happens.

1

SilentGaucho Yesterday

A well thought out and rational explanation. She is indeed one of the top names for regulatory expertise in the space. Maker proves it is top notch once again. Hopefully this provides all the runway the foundation needs to get MCD to main net. Good luck, and thanks for the time explaining your actions!

0

Parapas Yesterday

Do the fondation will add an freeze asset function in the dai smart contract if regulators ask for it? I hope not...

4

classic_katapult Yesterday

Power = laughably easy to get wealthy. But we're not here to change that structure, are we?

6

lazyj2020 Yesterday

the hits just keep coming for MKR!!!

Also, join us in /r/MakerDAO and on https://chat.makerdao.com to learn more and get involved, its a great community and a great project!

36

ngin-x Miner Yesterday

Does the team have any plans to get Dai onto Binance and Bittrex to facilitate trading pairs against Dai as opposed to USDT? I am uncomfortable holding USDT because there is always an air of bad news surrounding it and I get the feeling it can go belly up at any time. But at the moment there is no other option if you are an active trader. Holding Dai would help me sleep better at night.

5

Killit_Witfya Flippening Yesterday

i've seen it mentioned that they are waiting for multi collateral DAI before trying to expand into larger volume exchanges/markets

3

lazerswimmer 3 - 4 years account age. 50 - 100 comment karma. Yesterday

They have mentioned that MCD is not a roadblock for exchange listing I believe. I believe they just haven't been listed yet.

1

drr30 Developer Yesterday

I'm not an MKR holder but as a holder of DAI during the dump I say thanks to the team and community for building such an awesome and reliable system!

13

Goldman- Yesterday

I'd really like to see discord channel for makerdao, lot more accessible.

10

ngin-x Miner Yesterday

Screw discord. Please keep all discussions to the Reddit sub instead. Most people don't even understand how valuable discussions on Reddit are as it's a public platform visible to the world and indexed by Google. Discord and Telegram are closed platforms where only members can discuss among each other and outsiders have no clue what is going on. Important discussions are also lost because the chat interface doesn't provide any means of archiving or spotlighting important information. Most importantly, since nothing is indexed by Google, newbies who would like to learn about the project miss out on a lot of critical information. This is why I tell all new projects to have a Reddit sub and build the community here. Telegram/discord communities are useless, full of spam and small talk.

13

3x3q 3 - 4 years account age. 400 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

I'd also love to see a Discord channel for MakerDAO.

7

reterical Gentleman, Scholar Yesterday

Second this. I've been a fan (and investor) for about two years now. They consistently deliver.

10

5dayoldburrito Yesterday

Do you know why MKR should be valued highly? I did a lot of due diligence but fail to see why MKR should be worth a lot more than it is now, for DAI to succeed.

3

TaxExempt Hodler 9 hs ago

CDP interest is paid in MKR by burning it. Constant supply reduction and increased demand will drive up the price.

1

Cryptossi Redditor for 9 months. Yesterday

I haven't heard of MakerDAO or Andreessen Horowitz before, but I'm definitely going to spend the next couple of hours looking into them, that is massive news!

13

almondicecream Lover Yesterday

AH is one of the most respected and prestigious vc funds. Top tier. VC firms do more than give cash. They give connections. Look at the cv of the person who signed them: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/kathryn-haun

3

sreaka Yesterday

Marc Andreessen is a big name in the silicon valley. Founded Mosaic (basically the first web browser) and Netscape. He's been very successful in the VC world and his investments are heavily vetted and typically disruptive.

17

Cryptossi Redditor for 9 months. Yesterday

Awesome think I might need to start following him and definitely take a closer look at MakerDao.

5

robot_on_acid 3 - 4 years account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. Yesterday

They have a really good podcast titled a16z too. It’s all things VC, but they regularly talk crypto. I found out about Ethereum through their podcast towards the end of 2015

3

Goldman- Yesterday

MakerDao and Dai really is the sleeping beauty of Eth. It's hard to grasp at once, just like blockchain and eth as a technology but once you do and start to think further, you are ready to put down 15 millions too, if you'd have as much to invest.  Now with multi collateral on its way ( already on testnet ) and this investment, we will begin to see the big wheels turning and everyone will know what Dai is.  

17

sandalguy89 4 - 5 years account age. 63 - 125 comment karma. Yesterday

Follow Ben Evans newsletter. Ben-evans.com

2

alkalinegs Yesterday

how can you know if „that is massive news“ if you never heard about maker or horowitz?

25

Cryptossi Redditor for 9 months. Yesterday

Well a $15m investment in a relatively lesser know Blockchain project normally catches your eye!

5

zaphod42 Developer Yesterday

MakerDAO is really interesting. Multi collateral DAI is coming soon!

18

Rune4444 Yesterday

With Katie Hauns insight from her time as a federal prosecutor focused on cryptocurrencies, we have crafted a very strong plan for getting full clarity about our legal status in the US with the federal agencies that are relevant for the kind of financial activity Maker enables. Getting our house in order from a US regulatory standpoint is a crucial step that will open up major partnerships with established American enterprises.

Additionally there's also the added benefit of A16Zs marketing and business development teams that we can leverage as a force multiplier for our inhouse marketing and BD teams, however we consider this to be secondary to the value of having Katie Haun as an advocate for the project.

It's because of this major intangible value add that we were willing to sell such a large stake, and give a significant rebate from the market price at the time of the deal.

29

almondicecream 2 hs ago

Fucking huzzah! Go gettum!

1

crandallberries Yesterday

This is definitely very exciting! I am not complaining about any 'lack of transparency' because it's not like the mkr holders are well organized enough to strike deals at this point anyways, plus the foundation is doing a fantastic job... but it would be nice to have a more clear definition of what the foundation's role is. I know the foundation proposal set some direction, but I think a list of some of the direct intentions of the foundation could be nice, along with which functions and intended to be passed to mkr holders first on the 'gradual decentralization' timeline. I'm loving watching Maker mature.

4

crandallberries Yesterday

It's an interesting dilemma - mkr holders are supposed to be in charge - but the foundation are really the only people in the position to make a deal like this - I honestly don't know how a distributed group of mkr holders could ever perform these kinds of functions - maybe there needs to be some sort of vote that says 'we the mkr holders give the foundation authority to make business deals and distribute up to X amount of mkr' as well as outline other actions mkr holders give the foundation 'permission' to do

6

CMDRTrickster4 Yesterday

I am sure, as soon as there is an easy to use interface to stake/vote more of those decisions will be made by the token holders. For now there was 1 Vote by MKR holders, and it was done by a chosen few of "technicaly able" holders.

2

directdirt Yesterday

There was another vote already which was open to everyone. The governance dashboard is live at https://vote.makerdao.com

3

CMDRTrickster4 9 hs ago

Man I am out of touch :D Dashboard looks great, simple and functional! Cant wait for the next vote !

1

lazerswimmer Yesterday

>It's an interesting dilemma - mkr holders are supposed to be in charge - but the foundation are really the only people in the position to make a deal like this - I honestly don't know how a distributed group of mkr holders could ever perform these kinds of functions - maybe there needs to be some sort of vote that says 'we the mkr holders give the foundation authority to make business deals and distribute up to X amount of mkr' as well as outline other actions mkr holders give the foundation 'permission' to do we are so early on in the project that we have to trust the mkr team and the foundation

5

crandallberries Yesterday

Totally agree, I just think it would be helpful to have the relationship between the foundation and mkr holders more clearly defined

6

Rune4444 Yesterday

The foundation proposal was an attempt to start the dialogue about the foundations role in the short run and in the long run. Our focus is on shipping MCD, but once it's out we will revisit the role of community governance and the foundation. In general the community is only meant to be responsible for the long run risk governance of the system. As you're pointing out yourself, it is simply not possible for a decentralized community to bootstrap a fintech product from scratch with the flexibility required to compete in the marketplace. However as we grow bigger, it will gradually be possible to let the community use Maker governance to support the foundation in various development and adoption roles, and eventually the foundation will be eclipsed by companies and individuals in the community that are incentivized to sell dai-enabled products that indirectly result in dai adoption.

12

crandallberries Yesterday

Thanks Rune! It's exciting to see the progress you are making, and obviously MCD has been consuming a lot of resources! I am not in the camp of people that think just because they own .23 mkr they should have been texted about each business deal... I do think it would be helpful to have a blog post defining the roles so that mkr holders are better informed of what their role is in the system in order for mkr to be optimally beneficial. I think formalizing the relationship between mkr holders and the foundation is the next step after setting the philosophical direction of the foundation in the last vote.

1

catfoodlover Yesterday

This is really great news Rune! And the rebate was not even that high - USD 250 per MKR is totally reasonable considering what a16z can bring to the table. Also good news for the whole of crypto - big players are still interested! Next challenge will be on the team: how to sensible spend that much money (plus the swimmingpool you already had) in a sensible way? Major congrats + hugs for the whole team!

10

TheBuddha777 12310 karma | Karma CC: 1105 Yesterday

Nice. That's a pretty big deal.

4

OrangeLambo Yesterday

They got a good deal!

4

happyyellowball Gentleman Yesterday

HUGE!

34

JakubH Yesterday

he paid 60 cents on dollar agree, huge win for him already

15

krollAY Yesterday

Adreessen Horowitz started out as two partners, but they’re really a VC firm with 10+ full time staff. They actually have a great track record, being early investors in Skype, Twitter, and Coinbase among many others, some that made it some that didn’t or haven’t yet. Great potential though to be attracting this much interest from top VCs.

2

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