Token Daily

RT @Blockstream: We're excited to announce #BlockstreamGreen! As a full redesign & update to our GreenAddress apps, Green provides 2-of-2 multisig security, hardware wallet support, 2-factor authentication, & many more exciting features we know you'll love! 💚📲⚡️🌊 https://t.co/DV9f25H5rA https://t.co/FQLN84araZ

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Marty Bent - @MartyBent

RT @Blockstream: We're excited to announce #BlockstreamGreen! As a full redesign & update to our GreenAddress apps, Green provides 2-of-2 multisig security, hardware wallet support, 2-factor authentication, & many more exciting features we know you'll love! 💚📲⚡️🌊 https://t.co/DV9f25H5rA https://t.co/FQLN84araZ

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Francis Pouliot ⚡️ - @francispouliot_

Now THAT is a UX upgrade. Completely redesigned, looks fantastic, easy to use. SPV over trusted node, advanced features. 👉 Recommend it! Who says cypherpunk can't be sexy #BlockstreamGreen 🙌 @LarryBitcoin https://t.co/wu5kGRyYPt

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Adam Back - @adam3us

RT @BitSchmidty: Blockstream Green is the Bitcoiner's Wallet. Happy for the sleek redesign of the Green mobile apps to go live and for the secure foundation the team has built to innovate from! https://t.co/KIbPo0dpMg

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Matt Odell - @matt_odell

RT @Blockstream: We're excited to announce #BlockstreamGreen! As a full redesign & update to our GreenAddress apps, Green provides 2-of-2 multisig security, hardware wallet support, 2-factor authentication, & many more exciting features we know you'll love! 💚📲⚡️🌊 https://t.co/DV9f25H5rA https://t.co/FQLN84araZ

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acrual - @acrual

RT @nwoodfine: The future is here. https://t.co/qoTebvSgBR

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TheRustyTwit - @rusty_twit

The long-awaited redesign of the UI! Not just for hardcore bitcoiners any more. #beforeitwascool https://t.co/TGb40LbYz2

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Dennis Parker⚡️ - @Xentagz

RT @Blockstream: We're excited to announce #BlockstreamGreen! As a full redesign & update to our GreenAddress apps, Green provides 2-of-2 multisig security, hardware wallet support, 2-factor authentication, & many more exciting features we know you'll love! 💚📲⚡️🌊 https://t.co/DV9f25H5rA https://t.co/FQLN84araZ

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Neil Woodfine 聂尔 - @nwoodfine

The future is here. https://t.co/qoTebvSgBR

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FantasticEchidna4 8 hs ago

where can I find the developer gpg key?

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MaxSan 9 hs ago

Its a great wallet. Been using it a very long time. I recommend. Love to see this new version.

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CONTROLurKEYS 9 hs ago

Is there another company in Bitcoin doing more right now? I don't think so.

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Mr--Robot 9 hs ago

No bech32 support, only P2SH?! WTF Blockstream?
Let's see if at least can send to bech32...
Tried to use the seed from Green into Electrum... not recovering the same generated addresses.

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BitFast 8 hs ago

you can send to bech32, receive support will come later.  We don't advice to reuse the seed across wallets, for security/privacy reasons but also in our specific case because our wallet at the moment is multisig only (2of2, and 2of3 if enabled on the desktop app) so it will generate very different addresses in any case.

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Mr--Robot 8 hs ago

multisig - that means also higher fees right? I want to use a seed on different wallet apps. That GIVES me more redundancy and security. If one app is not working, having errors, I could easily go and open the wallet on another app. If one app is not having specif9ic features, easily can go and use the same wallet on another app that offer those specific features.

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the_bob 8 hs ago

Not sure if that does anything for security. It might be worse actually. Handling your seed (which generates *all* addresses in your wallet) from app to app with copy / paste could leak it, leaving your entire stash of BTC vulnerable.

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the_bob 8 hs ago

You can send to bech32. Receive is coming soon.

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DesignerAccount 9 hs ago

You guys are releasing content at an unbelievable rate... truly mind blowing. Thanks for all the hard work!

I'm a bit perplexed by the choice of 2-out-of-2 multisig, with the other key on your servers. I understand the security aspect, but can I do that on my local machine? I can use my own node, which is great for privacy, can I set up my second key to be on my local machine instead? This would be security and privacy, at the cost of slightly increased tx cost.

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BitFast 8 hs ago

At the moment the only options are 2of2 or 2of3 with the service. We are working on singlesig and generic multisig for future releases.

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dulbrev 8 hs ago

WOW, singlesig plese!

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bitusher 8 hs ago

Has this been tested with the Trezor model T? If not compatible, any plans in the future?

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riplin 8 hs ago

Will you guys add Yubikey support for 2fa?

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bitusher 9 hs ago

Yes! TL;DR of some of the unique features I can see- > Open source https://github.com/Blockstream/green_android > customizable fees and fee bumping with RBF > Connect to your own full node on android > 11 languages by default > Two-Factor thresholds (small amounts can be paid without 2fa) >Real and testnet BTC support in one wallet >Tor and proxy communication >Reminder of best practices >24 seed, split in 4 screens, no screenshots, no encryption >4 words to check for paper backup by clicking out of 4 options >max 6 digit PIN >Email, SMS, call, or google authenticator as #2FA >5 minute auto log out but also adjustable auto log out time >PGP key for secure communication >Watch only mode with username and password login > ledger nano 2 and trezor one support https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkQ_LXEuSVg

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riplin 8 hs ago

Will you guys add Yubikey support for 2fa?

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miigul99 redditor for 3 days 9 hs ago

Awesome news!

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linebackr6363 10 hs ago

Is this iOS / Android only or is there a web wallet like GreenAddress use to have?

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the_bob 9 hs ago

iOS / Android only for the time but there is an updated desktop app coming out soon.

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Cobra-Bitcoin 10 hs ago

Always use hardware wallets to store large amounts.

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bitusher 8 hs ago

Yes, this is what is great about this wallet , easy hardware integration -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkQ_LXEuSVg Generally anything above 1k usd of BTC I would suggest immediately buying a hardware wallet.

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the_bob 9 hs ago

Always use Green multisig when using any amount on a smartphone. :-)

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FantasticEchidna4 8 hs ago

what if a green address rogue employee hacks your phone? hardware is still best option.

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BashCo 9 hs ago

But if 2FA is not enabled, does it act as a normal, non-multisig wallet, ie. the user controls 1-of-1? Because I recall a lot of complaints about the original GreenAddress wallet resulting in a lot of unrecoverable coins due to GreenAddress refusing to sign transactions for some reason. It's been a while so the exact details escape me.

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bitusher 8 hs ago

>resulting in a lot of unrecoverable coins due The era of the fork shitcoins is luckily over , but yes, this was indeed a concern in late 2017

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BitFast 8 hs ago

The only time we ever refused to co-sign was when some users lost all 2FA backups/devices/numbers/emails etc used and that also didn't have the nlocktime recovery enabled or lost access to it. This is because we have no way to know if this is the original user or an impostor.  This was for a security reasons and complexity in adding a safe enough '2FA lost' recovery feature, without 2FA and without KYC/AML of any kind - we can't verify a passport selfy right? we came up with an approach that requires at least one year time lock before you can change the 2FA, + notifies all 2FA currently enabled immediately, + shows a banner in the apps to notify the user of this 2FA change request \_and\_ puts the wallet in lock down mode until the year+ has expired. If multiple people claim the same wallet then all changes are frozen and any change becomes manual.  And if you find the 2FA you can disable the change request and quickly move the funds out (especially if it wasn't you requesting the change).

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Mr--Robot 9 hs ago

not necessary. It's a false idea that hardware are the safest way to keep your bitcoins.

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john_co 9 hs ago

Hardware wallets generally have the highest combination of security, ease of use, and convenience. Change my mind

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Mr--Robot 9 hs ago

Why you have use HW as a spending source of your BTC? If you spread in 3 types of wallets your BTC stash you don't need a HW to spend from. **HODL wallet** (large amounts) - a wallet that you only deposit, never spend from, no need to open/access it. You could use a watch only wallet for that or a simple check on any blockexplorer will show you your "balances". **Medium/buffer** - a wallet for medium amounts, just IN/OUT buy/sell, coin control, CoinJoin, spreading/spliting to different wallets. Example: buy from an exchange, coinjoin it, and split it into HODL, medium, small wallets. **Small/mobile wallets** - day to day use of BTC, not important amounts, normal onchain or LN wallets. even if you lose them or get robbed are not an important lose for you. All these 3 types of wallets could be easily managed without any "hardware wallet" to store your seed/keys/access. The simple seed could be kept safe in many different ways: paper, steel, encrypted file on encrypted USB, **steganography** embedding seed into a picture, hiding in plain sight into a text or story, paintings or whatever any curious way. All these has the same security level as a HW or maybe even better because also can contain the "anti-5bucks-wrench-attack" protection named **plausible deniability**.

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john_co 9 hs ago

Thanks for the well written response. I'll try to address as much as I can. > Why you have use HW as a spending source of your BTC? If you spread in 3 types of wallets your BTC stash you don't need a HW to spend from. I don't have a hardware wallet (yet) but If I ever get one, I won't be telling random internet strangers about it. > HODL wallet (large amounts) - a wallet that you only deposit, never spend from, no need to open/access it. You could use a watch only wallet for that or a simple check on any blockexplorer will show you your "balances". If you mean an air-gapped laptop or something that has never been connected to the internet, with something like electrum on it to generate and sign keys, then yes this is a great idea. You can have a watch only wallet on your regular computer and sign transactions safely offline. Good idea. > Medium/buffer - a wallet for medium amounts, just IN/OUT buy/sell, coin control, CoinJoin, spreading/spliting to different wallets. Example: buy from an exchange, coinjoin it, and split it into HODL, medium, small wallets. I love this idea. Use wasabi wallet on coins fresh from the exchange, coinjoin them, then send to cold storage or a smaller spending wallet. >Small/mobile wallets - day to day use of BTC, not important amounts, normal onchain or LN wallets. even if you lose them or get robbed are not an important lose for you. Yes. Keep some walking around money ($100-$300)on easily accessible (mobile phone) wallets. >All these 3 types of wallets could be easily managed without any "hardware wallet" to store your seed/keys/access. The simple seed could be kept safe in many different ways: paper, steel, encrypted file on encrypted USB, steganography embedding seed into a picture, hiding in plain sight into a text or story, paintings or whatever any curious way. All these has the same security level as a HW or maybe even better because also can contain the "anti-5bucks-wrench-attack" protection named plausible deniability. I don't know if all 3 types could be *easily* managed without a hardware wallet, however you're right it is possible. Also I believe most hardware wallets allow the use of a passphrase, which gives you a decoy for both plausible deniability and the 5 dollar wrench attack.

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Mr--Robot 8 hs ago

Try looking into steganography (hiding secret messages/seed into a picture). https://www.openstego.com/ is working great. [An example here](https://twitter.com/aantonop/status/667365048507957248) Having a picture file containing a seed /parts of it, could be an easy and ingenious way to keep safe a HODL wallet. You can even post that picture online somewhere, in many places for redundant recovery and NOBODY will know about it. You can even memorize you seed for a "buffer" wallet. It's easy to train your brain for that. Example: [use a TailsOS USB with Electrum already installed](https://tails.boum.org/) wallet, just boot up with that USB, on any computer, put your memorized seed and voila, you have access anywhere to your wallet, without need of any HW.

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john_co 8 hs ago

Will do, thanks. That sounds like a pretty cool way of hiding something!

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Mr--Robot 8 hs ago

> pretty cool way of hiding something Just imagine you send an email to your sister/family, with an attached picture of your last holiday travel and that picture file contains 10BTC... NOBODY will know that, only you and the person you told that. Even if they will know, it's almost impossible to "decrypt" that steganography.

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ExcitedHayGuys 9 hs ago

Personally I'd never put more than $100 on a hardware wallet. Hardware wallets are a high-value target for supply chain attacks. Assuming your hardware wallet is not multisig, it only takes one properly executed attack to lose all of your money (e.g. the wallet purposely generates keys using a weak random number generator that is predictable by the attacker but undetectable by anyone else). See also: HARDWARE WALLET THREATS AND VULNERABILITIES - Peter Todd https://youtu.be/r1qBuj_sco4?t=505

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ninja_batman 9 hs ago

You're being unreasonable. Supply chain attacks require someone to specifically target you, and most hardware wallets have at least some protection against this (attestation). Maybe if you have hundreds of bitcoins, but not using hardware wallets for $100?? That's closer to a lower limit to when using hardware wallets is worth the effort.

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ExcitedHayGuys 9 hs ago

They require someone to compromise the hardware wallet manufacturer or anyone in the supply chain (or the firmware signing key), not you specifically. This is completely possible and realistic and you might not know until it was too late.

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Amacfa 9 hs ago

Hardware wallets can be compromised. They have before. I don’t know anyone who can hack my brain, yet. Best option for highly secured coins is an offline wallet created in an air gap computer, with only the seed to remember.

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bitusher 9 hs ago

> I don’t know anyone who can hack my brain Amnesia, concussion, drugs, Dementia, Alzheimers Brain wallets are one of the worst ways to secure your BTC. An airgapped linux computer is fine replacement for hardware wallet though as long as you have secure and private metal backups in addition

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Amacfa 9 hs ago

Knew this was coming - you’re right. But from theft (and not myself) I choose memory, metal engravings (which one or two seeds words are left out, and jumbled), or hiding in paintings.

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the_bob 8 hs ago

There are people actively bruteforcing possible brain wallets in order to steal from them since the human brain is terrible at generating random strings. Just food for thought.

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bitusher 8 hs ago

> (which one or two seeds words are left out, and jumbled), passphrase feature (25th word) is a great option for this on hardware wallets . Simply leaving off 1-2 words is not sufficient because this can easily be brute force attacked. Here are some other options if you need higher security on the backup - 1) SSS 2) Multisig 3) https://saleemrashid.com/2018/01/27/hardware-wallet-electrum-multisig/

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Amacfa 8 hs ago

Thank you!

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btcluvr 9 hs ago

can be, yes. in practice, it involves either access to your hardware and/or person being technically challenged, like using pre-written seed that came with the wallet.  so if you're reasonably knowledgeable person, this one would be hard to pull.

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cs001x 10 hs ago

This is intriguing to me. I'm interested in the community thoughts on storing large amounts of Bitcoin on this, 10+ BTC.

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bitusher 9 hs ago

Over 1k usd of BTC should use a hardware wallet or airgapped linux computer IMHO This only works with hardware wallets(nano s and trezor one) on android at the moment thus if you have an android it would be a great choice https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkQ_LXEuSVg Make sure you use a metal backup- https://medium.com/@lopp/metal-bitcoin-seed-storage-stress-test-21f47cf8e6f5

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Amacfa 9 hs ago

This is probably the best IOS wallet. But I wouldn’t store more than 10k on there

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BashCo 8 hs ago

>This is probably the best IOS wallet. It's been out for less than a day though.

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the_bob 9 hs ago

For large amounts you could use a hardware wallet with Green (for Android).

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exab 10 hs ago

Nice!

Any plan on coin control?

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BitFast 8 hs ago

We want to add it, the code already has all the changes, it's mostly a matter of UX now - I think we'll start on the desktop app where there's more real estate and perhaps is more practical but we should def add it to the mobile apps as well.

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Honest_Banker 10 hs ago

Any plans for n-of-m multisig? Would love to be able to use this for joint accounts.

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BitFast 8 hs ago

in the roadmap!

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mungojelly 3 months ago

fallback_addr: Leave a BTC address in the invoice in the event the LN payment fails. That way the payer can resort to sending you an on-chain transaction at the "fall back" address to complete their payment.

route_hints: The person creating the invoice fetches all available private channels connected to their LN node and leaves them as clues for the payer. This will increase the payer's chances of making a successful payment.

jesus christ

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DisastrousCheesecake 3 months ago

route_hints are not intended to give a full route, but only to provide information about the last hops to the payee. The primary use case for them is that the payee does not necessarily need to announce his node or any of their channels to the network. They might be behind a firewall which can't receive incoming connections. The private channels which they have open with another node is never broadcast, but if that peer's node is publicly accessible, then the payee simply provides that node ID and the SCID of the channel they have open with it, and a payment can be made. This also has the benefit that the payee never needs to reveal their IP address to anybody other than their direct peer, providing some improvement of privacy and making them less vulnerable to DoS attacks. The payee can signal multiple separate routes if they have multiple private channels open.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

it's a rube goldberg that doesn't even come close to working the lies about privary are particularly rich

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

Of all the things I mention, that's what you focus on? Lol.

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DisastrousCheesecake 3 months ago

Can you provide more explanation of AddIndex? This isn't part of the BOLT11 spec. My understanding is that a payment_hash cannot be reused once a payment has been successfully made with it, because the preimage for that payment hash has already been revealed. If any service wants to offer repeated services, they must provide a new payment_hash for every payment, and hence, a new BOLT11 invoice.

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

Yea so these are invoice features within lnd. Not sure if they're available in other implementations. The payment_hash isn't reused. AddIndex just adds a # to the invoice that is trackable. So as more invoices are created, the node looks for the # to catch up.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

the whole situation is just awkward, on the one hand people are patiently explaining how it can't possibly be reliable, while on the other hand the people making it are simultaneously arguing that it's fine and also writing into it how it'll fallback when it doesn't work because it can't possibly

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

Did you not read my explanation? It's in Beta. That's like expecting software to run perfectly the first time you write it.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

it's in alpha no, it's in proof-of-concept and it's never coming out

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

It's already here...

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mungojelly 3 months ago

"it" is a system that can't possible work that's meant to fallback on "BTC," which itself is now designed to get clogged, and there's no backup for the backup, so it's not actually even a fakely working system

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

What do you mean it’s designed to get clogged? I think you should understand and study how it works for yourself instead of propaganda.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

i mean they intentionally manipulated a parameter, MAX_BLOCK_SIZE, to intentionally clog the system, for their personal profit and aggrandizement it is a weird story so i can understand finding it unbelievable, but it did in fact happen, so strange is our this world

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

Who do you mean by “they?” A significant portion of the community didn’t want to increase the blocksize. Those who did forked away. It had nothing to do with crippling anything but making sure anyone could run a full node if they wanted to. It’s sad to hear people are getting brainwashed into that narrative.

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DemonPuke 3 months ago

Holy fuck have some patience, these developers are selflessly devoting their own time and dedication to pave the way for new technology and make it work, it wont happen over night, it will take some time and when it does finally fully release you can damn well know people like myself will be supporting it and using it. How would you like it if you had a bunch of autistic monkeys on your back while you try and design something as crazy and intense as the lightning network? one small mistake and you're messing with people's bitcoin. Give them as much time as they need.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

don't use autistic as an insult also stay away from the lightning network, it will never be finished

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DemonPuke 3 months ago

That is terrible advice, especially when it is working and growing. payments are super quick and reliable and we should be supporting the devs and giving them as much time as they need.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

how long would we have to wait before it would be fair to say that it's failed

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DemonPuke 3 months ago

When there are Zero nodes, Zero Channels, Zero BTC inside the network, No developers contributing/working on it, And Zero people supporting it but for some reason all of those things I listed off continue to grow over time. Please have an open mind when it come's to a project with this magnitude and work before having such a dead set negative outlook on it when things are susceptible to change. And on a side note i consider bitcoin still in some sort of early stage it just recently became Ten years old. We still have a long way to go my friend. !lntip 1000

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ABitcoinAllBot 3 months ago

Here is the link to the original comment thread. Or you can comment here to start a discussion. Author: ecurrencyhodler

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jps_ Yesterday

A long time ago someone thought it would be a good idea if we hired professionals to build and administer the roads, bridges and other infrastructure. They found various places in the economic flow of things to extract a small amount, and called it a "tax".

The administration of the system by which the tax is dispersed for everyone's benefit came to be known as "government". Unfortunately, people being people, this system incentivized clever but lazy individuals to come up with creative ways to grab as much of the tax handout for themselves, while doing as little legitimate work possible, thus requiring additional layers of regulation and oversight to make sure that the administrators of the tax coffers did so diligently and fairly, which further increased the costs and the need for more taxes... which we of course all abhor as "bloated government intervention".

TLDR; "Here we go again."

Are you sure this is a good hill to die on?

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

> A long time ago someone thought it would be a good idea if we hired professionals to build and administer the roads, bridges and other infrastructure. They found various places in the economic flow of things to extract a small amount, and called it a "tax". It's not clear to me what you are talking about or what point you are making. Are you speaking in parable? Are you saying that roads + bridges are bad things? Are you implying that because one system of taxation is flawed, that all taxation is corrupt? > Are you sure this is a good hill to die on? I dont think you're reading ERC 1789 in sections, as it was written. Nor is to clear to me you have read the ERC. From the ERC: > In this ERC, I will break down my argument into four basic sections: > 1. Why ecosystem stewardship is important > 2. Why ecosystem stewardship inflation funding is the right approach > 3. Administration of funds > 4. Tuning of parameters > My goal for this ERC is to establish a strong argument for (1). Stewardship is the most important driver of long-term value creation in the Ethereum space, and open source communities more broadly. Rewarding maintainers of Ethereum is critical. I am willing to die on this hill.

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burrrata 9 hs ago

> Rewarding maintainers of Ethereum is critical. I agree that this is essential. Altruism is not a game theoretically strong strategy. We need sustainable cryptoeconomic mechanisms to support the community :) > I am willing to die on this hill. Just out of curiosity, what would that look like? lol

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jps_ Yesterday

I am speaking in parable, yes. And if you'll allow me to continue, tax hill is littered with corpses.

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huntingisland Yesterday

20% is too high, IMO
Capture of a large stream of mandatory payments is a huge potential governance / organizational capture problem
Ethereum will be criticized for adding a mandatory fee (it will be called a tax)
There is a high likelyhood that the Ethereum community cannot come to consensus on this proposal and if forced through, it would lead to a blockchain split
There are other options that do not require adding a mandatory fee

My preference is to use the power of defaults and social pressure to have a much smaller inflation fee that will go to an infrastructure fund. Stakers will have the option to direct to a different community fund of their choice (including, in the end, their own account). There will be an ERC for ETH 2.x coming with this proposal sometime in April. I like the idea of the default recipient using the Gitcoin fund mechanism and distribution approach.

We also have client infrastructure funding proposal in the works using another default fee which will be a proportion of the gas fee for each transaction. This will also be coming in April. This idea came out of some conversations with Vitalik on how to fund infrastructure.

I believe that a voluntarist approach is far less contentious and far more likely to get community support and approval and avoid forking the community.

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

ONE. 20% fee is at least several hard forks out, if it happens at all. heres the timeline the working group is pursuing https://github.com/gitcoinco/ERC-1789/issues/21 TWO. yep, the working group understands the scale of hte problem and is is on it. FOUR. the working group understands the importance of avoiding a chain split. they're taking it seriously. FIVE. Thanks for the ideas! Want to join the working group telegram group and float some of these ideas? There is one for the inflation funding group, one for the wallet group, and one for the general "how do we fund OSS" group.

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huntingisland Yesterday

Appreciate the answers! Yes, would very much like to join the working group Telegram, thanks for the invite!

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

Cool. And thanks for the direct & tough feedback. Important to make sure all dissent is heard as we design the EIPs.

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huntingisland Yesterday

👍

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burrrata Yesterday

That's a good point that a mandatory fee is likely to be viewed as a tax. Overall are you saying that it's better to set defaults that fund the commons, but give people the choice to opt-out if they want?

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huntingisland Yesterday

> Overall are you saying that it's better to set defaults that fund the commons, but give people the choice to opt-out if they want? Yes.

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burrrata Yesterday

Cool. I agree that's a much stronger approach that fits into the overall ethos of the community :)

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burrrata 1 day ago

Oh no... you're going to die on a hill too? I mean I'm all for inflation funding the commons, but not on a hill. Not in a box or with a fox either. I will not die on a hill. I will not do it /u/owock

Now that that's out of the way... yeah I agree 100%. Inflation funding the commons is a winning strategy. First we need better mechanisms for stakeholders in the ecosystem to signal their preferences and have a say in governance, even if it's rough. As is we can't even change the mods on /r/ethereum or ship planned upgrades in a coordinated fashion. We need better infrastructure to support the community before we can decentralize fund management, but we need funds to build out that infrastructure. Yay life...

Thanks for sharing all those resources though. I had no idea there was a "business models ring." Is there a reason you guys didn't add it as a ring on the ethereum-magicians.org forum? Also, why so many group chats on Telegram rather than Riot or Rocket?

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

Thanks for hte comment. As a 80s kid, I especially appreciate the Dr. Seuss reference. > Inflation funding the commons is a winning strategy It's certainly one option. While the EIP 1789 is somewhat provocative, I'm trying to shift more into a consensus building mode. There are many other good ideas under the sun; Even though the design space of sustainOSS is well trodden, sustainOSS + blockchain is a new design space. > We need better infrastructure to support the community before we can decentralize fund management, but we need funds to build out that infrastructure. Checkout tennagraph. I'm hopeful that it will help us here! > Is there a reason you guys didn't add it as a ring on the ethereum-magicians.org forum? It's on the forum too. But we've found lower engagement on the forum than on telegram.

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burrrata Yesterday

Yeah I've been talking to the Tennagraph team! It's a really cool project :) Where exactly on the forum is it? I don't see a "business models ring" in the [working groups](https://ethereum-magicians.org/c/working-groups)

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

actually it is in the [working groups](https://ethereum-magicians.org/c/working-groups) -- you just have to scroll down.

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burrrata 9 hs ago

I see the posts on that page, but I meant organizing them as a ring so that it shows up in the the drop down filter on the top left. Like "token ring", "signalling ring", "education ring", etc... Then you can see all the posts related to that ring all in one place vs scattered throughout the other posts :)

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

its posted at https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/forming-a-ring-business-models/1450 -- maybe it needs to be moved to 'working groups'?

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burrrata Yesterday

There's [guidelines on how to form a ring](https://github.com/ethereum-magicians/scrolls/wiki/HOWTO-Form-A-Ring) and a [template](https://github.com/ethereum-magicians/scrolls/wiki/Ring-Charter-Template) to make it happen. Having the ring visible on the forum would provide more visibility and make it easier for people to get involved. That way when people hear about the Ethereum Magicians and are looking for ways to contribute, if they're into the cryptoeconomics of sustainable FLOSS they'll see the ring and can check it out :)  Edits: - Going through the magicians forum post, then the GitHub, and all the other forum posts linked to from there. It would be 10X easier to get updated and contribute if all that stuff was tagged and organized in one place. Creating a ring/working group on the Ethereum Magicians forum and putting everything there would really help. - Also, how would you feel about creating a Riot group and bridging it with the Telegram group? Then if people want to use more secure and open source tools they can, but don't have to.

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

totally down to create a riot group and bridge it with telegram. DM me if you want to work together on that. also added the guidelines on how to form a ring to my TODO list

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Wubzen 9 hs ago

Time to make reddit/voat alternative on deep web, I guess.

Would be great for info sharing on european and american honeypots for chinese hackers, hard to discuss it in open web.

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SuperFLEB 9 hs ago

Time to call support, I guess.

"THE WEBSITE IS DOWN!"

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Coldfriction 10 hs ago

Net neutrality would have forbidden this ISP behavior. Too bad the conservative talking heads believed it was too much government oversight in the US. Can't infringe on the ISPs right to censor you know.

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TheWorldisFullofWar 9 hs ago

Then those same conservatives started spewing shit about Twitter and Google censoring them and banning their accounts. You can not get dumber than the average American conservative. Don't even understand the things they are against.

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neglectoflife 10 hs ago

It's honestly really funny watching them hang themselves, I even told them they would be the first on the chopping block.

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estonianman 10 hs ago

Let’s take a moment and laugh at the hypocrites on this thread who claim to support the intentions of net neutrality and censorship in New Zealand

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maosredbrook 11 hs ago

Australia has gone to the dark side. Wish we could rip up every treaty obligation we have with them.

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magnoliasmanor 11 hs ago

The sites refuse to remove a video of someone killing 50 people in cold blood. I mean, we're all for free speech hut maybe we should have standards? Plus 4chan is already back up per the article so it's not like they were blocked for good.

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Kildigs 8 hs ago

> we're all for free speech but You're not for free speech until you drop the "but"

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uiy_b7_s4 cancer spreads from the right Yesterday

Look at that, free market helping the fight against terrorism

Thanks libertarian values!

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RuddyOpposition Yesterday

Isn't it strange, how we can have Muslim terrorist attacks all the time. They are so common they don't even make headlines or the evening news. But there is a terrorist attack against Muslims and there is this massive move to ban guns and censor free speech.

Here is a link to the Wikipedia page that tracks terrorist attacks, for the month of January, 2019. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_January_2019 Why does this attack get so much attention? Because it happened in New Zealand, as opposed to Kenya or Colombia or Afghanistan? Or because it was a terrorist attack against Muslims instead of by Muslims?

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handelelrondolo 11 hs ago

> They are so common they don't even make headlines or the evening news. lol what. The reason is we dont give a shit if its not in the western/first world. Every single muslim terrorist attack that was in the western world was a huge deal, followed by a cleansing of twitter accounts, which the IS and other organizations apparently primarily used to recruit people. Furthermore mosque which are believed to radicalize muslims get closed/inspected quite often as well. So if there was a concentration of radical muslims on the internet, like 4chan apparently is for right extremists, that site would probably be closed as well.

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HelperBot_ Yesterday

Desktop link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_January_2019 *** ^^/r/HelperBot_ ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove. ^^Counter: ^^245546

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RuddyOpposition Yesterday

Thank you, bot!

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jess_albas_twin actual libertarian Yesterday

Can confirm, Telstra and Optus are censoring a bunch of stuff

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DeezNuts1AltAccount Yesterday

I think this is New Zealand freaking out. It seems like American media was this dudes cup of tea. The more the video gets seen the more fringe kids it inspires to do the same.

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Cre8or_1 Yesterday

Telcos is a company though, right? they can ban whatever they want (if the contract with their customers doesn't mention not banning anything)

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cpizzer Yesterday

ha - block the site to avoid giving the shooter a face and name... wait, they gave him a face and name. You go boi!

1

jessamk Yesterday

I’ve just called Vodafone to complain about the block and had my account credited $10 to compensate for the restrictions to my service yesterday and today. I think as many ppl as possible should do this, even if it’s a token amount it’s money they are losing.

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remington_smooth 9 hs ago

So does that mean it was a temporary restriction? If not, you should press them to reduce your monthly bill by $10 since they tacitly admitted that was what access to those services is worth.

1

Staceionaaa Yesterday

Does anyone know if Bestgore was shutdown?

1

Staceionaaa Yesterday

I got into liveleak. Wtf do they think this is going to achieve?

1

Arrogant_facade Yesterday

Access is back now, for those interested.

1

cojoco Yesterday

Also ZeroHedge, which I have heard quoted as a news source on ABC Radio National.

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tookmuhjerb Yesterday

I'm glad our government hasn't gone this far yet. They're still scraping metadata and email but at least I can still go places that I don't tend to go to but still have the option. Fuck fascism.

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missriverstyx Yesterday

Literally nothing but nazis, pedophiles, and really annoying libertarians. Censor them.

1

blackhotel Yesterday

Is the internet becoming more authoritarian? Why i never lol

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ishmal Yesterday

What are the "extreme circumstances?" Will there be another attack in the next few minutes? Or is Aus responding like NZ in a hysterical, childish, and emotional manner to a minor event?

1

eat_deezNUT5 Yesterday

How can they do that? Besides changing the DNS to 1.1.1.1 should be a work around right? And also net neutrality in Australia is non existent right?

2

AssholeEmbargo Yesterday

"Oh but it worked in AUS" has a different meaning now. It also "worked" under Stalin.

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mtndewgood Yesterday

This isn't an answer to any problem

2

twawaytrust Yesterday

https://imgur.com/iqnFxu0

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NeonGKayak Yesterday

4chan isn’t even what it used to be. It was taken over by actual kkk and stormfront users. The maga trolling actually became real. And now they support something they should despise at its very essence. I feel like anyone on the site doesn’t even know what it was from the beginning.

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paganel - @paganel Yesterday

> the blog Zerohedge and video hosting platform Liveleak.

Let's say I get why they'd block 4chan and 8chan, but blocking a blog is just over the top. Liveleak I also half-understand, but I also don't approve of it, for a while it was one of the best online video resources on the atrocities committed by ISIS in Syria and Iraq, just hiding our unwanted images under the rug won't help much.

Later edit: For example videos of the Tikrit massacre [1] are only available on Liveleak (I'm talking of the "mainstream" web), YouTube has nothing on it. It is my very strong opinion that we need these images to remain in the public psyche so that we'll try our best not to make the same mistakes again, and by censoring access to this kind of videos we're not helping with any of that.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Speicher_massacre

Daviey - @Daviey Yesterday

And yet, Facebook was the platform that was used to facilitate the live streaming of the horrendous events we saw in New Zealand.

I am looking forward to Facebook also being banned.

QualityReboot - @QualityReboot Yesterday

Good. Ban them all. Force everyone with an unpopular opinion off the major platforms.

While we're at it, let's ban political debate and fake news. Ban NPR and ban Breitbart. Ban religious debate too. If it offends someone, get it off the platforms.

Let's make it so every controversial content and comment is forced off YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook.

It's the fastest way to end centralization.

throwawaysea - @throwawaysea Yesterday

Deplatforming was always a bad idea that puts fundamental freedoms at risk. Now that it has come to telecoms, something has to be done to denounce this trend and stop it. When large privately-owned platforms (e.g. Twitter) or low-level utilities (telecom companies) take action to censor information, it has the same impact and carries the same risks as a government doing it. It stifles expression, exchange of ideas, and imposes personal morality on a broad set of people.

adamrezich - @adamrezich Yesterday

It's not mentioned in this article but from what I understand (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), "blocking" is happening at the ISP DNS level, and anyone living in these affected areas can simply use a different DNS service to continue using these websites unimpeded.

reuben_scratton - @reuben_scratton Yesterday

Ridiculous. "Hate speech" didn't kill 50 innocent people, a goddamned lunatic with an automatic rifle did.

As Mark Steyn has remarked on this latest moral panic, "Less speech inevitably means more violence - because, if you can't talk about anything, what's left but to shoot up the joint?"

batat - @batat Yesterday

Just found out that Reddit banned /r/watchpeople for the same reason [1]. I believe all these censorship attempts only makes it worse - we're experiencing the Streisand Effect at its best now.

[1] http://fortune.com/2019/03/15/reddit-banned-watch-people-die...

motohagiography - @motohagiography Yesterday

It's hard to get out of ones bubble on this.

From the govts view, they are acting to contain sectarian violence long enough that their society can find a stable equilibrium after a shock.

I don't think appeals to the principle of freedom of speech are meaningful against acts of censorship because it is a tactical response in a perceived crisis and not something that happens under ideal conditions where they can afford to be held to principles.

However, tactical approaches like clumsy censorship signal a deeper weakness that risks exacerbating sectarian resolve in all parties.

Cynically, the solution here may have been to rate limit content they didn't want instead of blocking it outright, which is insidious, but toward the desired outcome of defusing the spread of violence, people who want the content can get it without having to position themselves against the authorities (become outlaws) to do so, while removing it from casual observation. Reddit's quarantines, and Twitter's shadow bans mitigate some of the virality of reactions. Tagging traffic to these sites for slow path processing would have been trivial, and blocking them was an unforced error.

Societies need to respond to events like these by demonstrating unity and strength, which may mean acts of extraordinary tolerance - and not with tactical approaches that make them seem weak and vulnerable to an insurgency.

batat - @batat Yesterday

I'm wondering if it's legal to block sites in Australia simply because "we feel this is the right thing to do"?

calvinqwerty - @calvinqwerty Yesterday

I find the chans interesting. The back and forth between the clans, whoever they represent, mixed with some curious independent posters gives a small picture of what's lurking out there in the darkness. In the private minds. Mostly it's role playing I think.

iooi - @iooi Yesterday

Everyone is okay with restrictions on freedom of speech when it comes to child pornography. But restricting 8chan is suddenly too much?

I'm curious where we draw the line and what the criteria is. It's clear we need a line, since we shouldn't encourage the proliferation of child pornography for example.

But should we tolerate a community that had a "Brent Tratton Appreciation Thread" on the day of the NZ shooting? [1]

[1] http://archive.fo/xmftv

EGreg - @EGreg Yesterday

Ok, I am going to say it.

I am not a free speech absolutist. But with the coming technology, like MaidSAFE and others, it will become possible for people to communicate and say whatever they want, no way to censor. Full stop.

The governments will go back to having moles inside each group they care about, which is more targeted and harder.

For numerous examples of why free speech matters, the other way, look at the latest article on at https://qbix.com/blog

It’s like 3d printed guns, or desktop printers or copiers. Things that governments heavily regulated through gatekeepers now can be produced by anyone.

I will say this... if you add up ALL the mass shootings in the USA they add up to less than 2% of all shootings. And if you add up ALL shootings and killings, including by Boko Haram and so on, we have far less than 100 years ago, 1000 years ago, 5,000 years ago etc.

Steven Pinker was right. We are getting far more peaceful, because of technology. As long as we keep a check on population growth, we may even have enough resources, not too much garbage and sustainable living in every generation.

If anything, Boko Haram (which stands against Western education) is an example of values from hundreds of years ago. They are more violent.

Today’s values are much less violent but they will only survive if we can live sustainably, and that starts with women’s education and having children later.

ryandrake - @ryandrake Yesterday

Called it three days ago [1]. My prediction is the UK is next and the list of sites will be even longer. This horrible event has become a bittersweet gift to politicians who have been waiting for their chance to coerce ISPs into blocking a few more web sites on their "naughty lists".

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19402858

FilterSweep - @FilterSweep Yesterday

Why don’t they remove cloudflare protection on 4/8chan?

ratling - @ratling Yesterday

They and others should permanently block 8chan. TBH if NZ/AUS started DDOSing it I'd be fine with that too but I doubt we're there yet.

The others I don't agree with long term (4chan is 4chan, Zerohedge is moronic but mostly benign, liveleak is concerning but I get why they did it) but 8chan is just cancer.

I get freedom of speech, but there has to be a limit somewhere. Those animals would drop nukes for funsies if they had the opportunity.

Show all comments on Hackernews

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Toyake Crypto God | QC: CC 286 Yesterday

Meanwhile in /r/vzla

https://np.reddit.com/r/vzla/comments/b0gdny/do_venezuelos_realise_that_bitcoin_is_actually/

let me educate you on a little thing called: WE LIVE IN A DICTATORSHIP What are you even talking about? Using crypto would have solved absolutely nothing because:

A- Ports are owned by the state, any influx of anything bigger than a standard box WILL be confiscated (unless you or the courier service you use happen to know the people inside the port and have a way of saving your package from theft). So even if we could purchase things outside, Maduro’s regime will just be like “Kikiriki this shit belongs to me”.

B- People can’t adopt using crypto for common uses because it requires a lot of technical devices that are outside the reach of the majority of people here (yes, your shitty smartphone is better than what people can afford here).

C- it is too volatile, adding that to the already crazy inflation in Venezuela would make things worse.

Also, in case your ass can’t understand Spanish for the news article I linked: Even if you try to mine/use crypto, the Maduro regime will just track you down and put you in jail just because they can, hell even using US Dollars was punishable with jail time, and in here that is a death sentence (think, Cell block 99 from that movie, and that is the nice part of Venezuelan prisons).

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lalalululili Crypto Nerd | QC: CC 68, BUTT 8 Yesterday

pfff those "Venezuelians" have no clue what's good for them (or my bags). Just buy \[mybags\] and problemo solvado!

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Mr--Robot 1 day ago

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/18/on-the-ground-in-venezuela-vs-the-media-spectacle/

1

mrmishmashmix 1 day ago

"At least there is one country in the world where Bitcoin is serving a practical value for ordinary citizens rather than speculators."

How lucky we are to have the impartial bbc to tell us what to think, and charge us for the priveledge.

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waterclocks redditor for 1 week Yesterday

Yep. I mean, people are speculating that Bitcoin will have more and more practical value for ordinary citizens in the future. Sounds like they are getting that speculation correct. The BBC is such a disgusting sham.

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Christopher Wheeler - @Stocktrader

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146 480

Luke Martin - @VentureCoinist

Any crypto investor that wants to learn more or keep up with the best essays about cryptoasset valuations should bookmark this page created by @Ikigai_fund. It reminds me of the Research Library and Perspectives from @CliffordAsness. Excited to see this develop @Travis_Kling! https://t.co/YoFp36CTPm

1 3

Joel John - @joel_john95

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Thomas Lee - @fundstrat

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RT @Travis_Kling: 🚨Announcement!🚨 Recently, we at @Ikigai_fund have been hard at work creating the Valuation Depot Surprisingly, we could not find a single source for the growing body of work on crypto valuation. This is our effort to provide that. Feedback welcome! https://t.co/qyRQ9FDL35

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Dan Held - @Dan-Held

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2 8

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40 96

Crypto Bobby - @crypto_bobby

Travis dropping more great resources with names I can’t properly pronounce 👇 https://t.co/1h1B9rxrAQ

1 4

Hunter Horsley - @HHorsley

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