Token Daily

2

1 4

4

4 2

11 2

GreystarTheWizard 17 hs ago

What would this mean for cardano and others? Is there a need for them if eth2 is a success?

1

pas32 Yesterday

Everyone can't wait for this update to happen.

1

Ashtehstampede Yesterday

Last chance to buy Eth below 1k

14

Snckbrt_ Yesterday

Atleast not until eip 1559

4

RommelTJ Yesterday

Why? The amount of locked ETH is going to barely increase and I feel like this might already be priced in. Coupled with US elections pessimism, I want to understand why you think ETH will skyrocket to $1k.

3

maxstandard Yesterday

Please help me understand when you say "the amount locked ETH will barely increase." What are you comparing this to currently? To the best of my knowledge there is not any real ETH locked for staking purposes. The only ETH that locked is testnet ETH which is why the price of real ETH hasn't moved. Once the deposit contract of Phase 0 goes live real ETH will be locked up and will impact the price by being removed from circulation. Additionally, ETH is still being locked in defi contracts. Both of these make a pretty good argument for a greatly increased ETH price in my opinion.

11

plaenar ETH maximalist Yesterday

One scenario is that mostly people who are already holding ETH long term will stake anyways, so those are not really being removed from circulation. Although there is the possibility of some people deciding to acquire ETH to fund validators.

5

pegcity Yesterday

I think it will reduce miner dumping, they will switch to mass staking, this could be a pipe dream though

2

iPeculiarly Yesterday

Slashing will reduce supply, eip 1559 will reduce supply and provide more fair transactions, staking will lock up ether, defi will lock up more. It's got a lot going for it.

6

Louisoneth Yesterday

Slashing won’t have that big an effect, eip 1559 is still a year off, staking might help but defi doesn’t ‘lock up’. The effect may be underwhelming

3

raddlepad Yesterday

So is eth 2.0 might launch this year?

5

foyamoon Yesterday

Sure looks like it

1

logiotek Yesterday

Who cares Q4'20 or Q1'21? Not many. As long as other developments for Phases 1, 1.5, 2.0 keeps moving regardless.

2

Antana18 21 hs ago

I was about to disagree until reading the second half of your comment. Indeed phase 0 is relatively unimportant compared to the other two phases and the latter ones need to be introduced ASAP. So, I really hope they are already under full steam in getting phase I out quickly after phase 0.

1

logiotek 18 hs ago

Phase 0 is perceived as unimportant but it's the foundation. It has to be done right and correct.

1

Antana18 18 hs ago

Agreed!

1

TibbersCrypto Yesterday

So what will happen to the folks with mining rigs?

4

spe59436-bcaoo Yesterday

Either ETC will get more hash or there'll be a new fork. It will cost less for miners than liquidating all mining assets and closing mining businesses. Some miners will refocus to other PoW chains during ETH2 roll out, but probably not much. Difficulty retargets make mining always a theater packed to the edge Even just with DEXes there'll be a lot of volume trading tokens between PoW/PoS versions of Ethereum, a lot of fees for miners, I'd imagine

0

DukeVerde Yesterday

Why fork what was already forked?

0

logiotek Yesterday

Keep on mining until at least Phase 2. And even after that there will be a need for some compute. Bottom line is in blockchain you can stake, provide liquidity to DeFi liquidity pools, sell compute resources, sell bandwidth and storage space, and probably some other stuff nobody thought of yet. Lots of stuff to do to earn.

6

ItsAConspiracy 16 hs ago

There's no mining after 1.5. Plenty of opportunity to do all the other stuff, just no use for racks of GPUs.

2

logiotek 16 hs ago

Phase 1.5 just brings current ETH 1.x mainnet onto its own shard chain. All execution is still done on old ETH 1.x EVM. Phase 1.5 will also allow transfers between ETH1 and ETH2 tokens via smart contract on ETH 1.x shard chain. Need Phase 2 (EVM upgrade) to fully transition and move away from mining. And even then there will be transition period of dApp/user migration where you can keep mining.

0

ItsAConspiracy 16 hs ago

Yes, it's on the EVM, but the consensus algorithm will be Gasper at that point, not proof of work. There's no plan to somehow graft PoW into ETH2.

3

logiotek 16 hs ago

Like I wrote above, both ETH1 and ETH2 will coexist *at least* until everyone migrates over to ETH2.

0

ItsAConspiracy 16 hs ago

Only if the miners decide to keep their own PoW fork running. There's currently a demo of ETH1 running inside a Phase 1 shard, with no PoW in sight. That is the plan, and it happens before Phase 2.

1

MemeyCurmudgeon Flippant Flippener Yesterday

Phase 0 mainnet is coming soon (no “™️” necessary)

They're really sure about this one... dare I believe?

2

Ayrianne Yesterday

Well.. what else are you gonna do?

1

eth-addict Yesterday

Short and oh so very sweet. I love it.

11

laylaandlunabear Yesterday

Seems like we are very, very close. Congrats to the devs and community.

15

NSErrorWtf Yesterday

The suggestion that Eth2.0 phase 0 could cause ETH to fail the SEC's Howey test is a new, and somewhat concerning, one to me.

I would love to hear another opinion on this.

https://github.com/ethereum/EIPs/pull/2982

0

laylaandlunabear Yesterday

Under the Howey Test, the investor must expect profits solely from the efforts of the promoter or a third party. Here, investors are doing the "efforts"/work themselves by running the validator nodes on their own computers or hardware.

6

ItsAConspiracy Yesterday

I'm no lawyer but neither is Greg Colvin. Imho staking clearly does not make ETH fail the Howey test. > Any profit comes from the efforts of a promoter or third party. The profit does not come from the efforts of a third party. It comes from your own efforts, running a staking node. You're the one validating transactions and building a sequence of blocks, and you get paid for that. > It is an investment of money. It's not even an investment of money. You get paid for doing work. The money is there so the protocol can slash you if you misbehave. If I were to do some kind of contract work for you, and deposited money somewhere that I would lose if I didn't hold up my end of the deal, that money would not be an investment for me. The IRS treats mining as work, too. You don't pay capital gains on your mining income. You get paid for your work and owe regular income tax. When people start doing taxes on staking gains, I bet their excess ETH will also count as regular income. If anyone has made an investment it's ETH holders who aren't staking, but just hoping for ETH to go up. But the government has already decided that if ETH ever was a security, it's not anymore, because now it's so decentralized it's really a commodity.

9

PurpleHamster Yesterday

There’s already several PoS networks running so I’m not totally sure why the concern is there.

3

NSErrorWtf Yesterday

Are there any PoS networks running that allow staking without withdraw/exchange?

2

Henrywotton19 Yesterday

Good job ppl, lookin forward to staking for years now

17

alexiskef Yesterday

Thank you Danny!!

18

7

6

2 3

8 7

FUSCN8A 2 days ago

Until yield farming destroys itself (and possibly Ethereum in the processes), this kind of news won't stop.

Even if we solve yield farming GAS issues, something else will replace the demand (remember Crypto Kitties?).

All hands on deck to fix the GAS problem now!

Let's finally get off ETH 1.0 and start staking or figure out a way to force the proceeds earned by these high-volume, high earning smart contracts to start subsidizing GAS.

Ethereum like Bitcoin, has unfortunately failed as a technology for its intended purpose simply due to popularity.

This is the limits of Proof of Work for Ethereum and to be honest, I'm surprised its lasted as long as it did.

I think one of the worst things we allowed as a community was removing the time-bomb functionality which forced hard forks. This created forced discourse and change which is now lacking.

It's not too late to change. We just need to remove some of these 1 MB Greg types out of the decision making process and learn to take risks and be OK with failure.

Acknowledging the elephant in the room - failure is first needed (like this Blog has done!) which is a great sign. Next is strong leadership and swift action instead of words.

I still have hope we can pull this off.

Having participated in and surviving the DAOsaster - that was a time of rapid change and risk taking along with strong leadership. We need to be OK with failure even when there's money on the line.

Let's go!

7

HodlDwon 3 days ago

That sucks. Was really excited for something like this to work.

3

alicenekocat 3 days ago

It's sad to see more projects shut down due to Ethereum's problems. Hopefully more diverse applications are once again possible in Ethereum. In my view, I wouldn't want it to become a DeFi only blockchain.

2

InquisitiveBoba 3 days ago

if its possible to be shut down then it wasn't decentralized to begin with

3

alicenekocat 3 days ago

FYI most current DeFi "dapps" are not that decentralized either. Many have admin / root keys and trusted third parties. Uniswap is a notable exception.

1

InquisitiveBoba 3 days ago

So is no better then finance 1.0 In fact its worse because you can be anon and do rug pulls on lots of people because you don't have to deal with regulation. Uniswap isnt the exception anymore with the governance token. The FED could just print some USD and then buy 51% of the UNI supply and then vote in anything they want.

2

foyamoon 3 days ago

Ugh..

2

capitalol 4 days ago

I wonder if this is a canary in the coalmine. Which other projects are now quietly closing shop... or moving elsewhere?

3

alicenekocat 3 days ago

NFTs and gaming have been moving away from Ethereum for some time now. Remember MLB and cryptokitties? check where they are developing now.

1

capitalol 3 days ago

I just looked up CK and it looks like they are still on ethereum, no?

0

alicenekocat 2 days ago

They are building Flow another blockchain where they can migrate to.

2

redditsucks_goruqqus 3 days ago

Anything that is not DeFi will struggle according to the [guy that runs the top crypto VC, Olaf Carlsen](https://old.reddit.com/r/polkadot_market/comments/iw5ium/not_sure_why_this_wasnt_posted_before_olaf/). I'm legitimately sad that one of my favorite projects - Etheroll - is down to [7 players and 12 rolls this week](https://old.reddit.com/r/etheroll/comments/irzq9a/myetherolls_weekly_game_summary_week_37_2020/). I used to explain the potential of smart contracts to people back in 2017 using Etheroll as an example. It was such a simple dapp that most people instantly got the value of smart contracts: there's no permissions needed, no trust needed... just read the code and press roll.

4

reuptaken 3 days ago

Social Sets (part of Token Sets) are struggling, most suspended trading, mine included. It can cost several hundreds USD to start a Set rebalancing process (change of asset allocation)

3

edmundedgar reality.eth 4 days ago

Really sad to see, it was such a great project. But you have to respect teams that give the money back to investors once they realize their initial plan isn't going to pan out rather than doing endless pivots until they've spent it all.

7

OnetimeAugurUser 4 days ago

100% this. If you know the project isn't going to work, shut it down, and give back whatever you can.

4

Crypto_Economist42 4 days ago

Wrong assumption #1 always seemed like a problem to me from day 1. Suprised you guys even tried to make it work.

All 'freemium' models where multisig wallets are created for free by the service provider on behalf of the user just won't scale in the long run. How can an SP afford even $1 per signup if its trivial to sybil attack that?

Argent will run into this problem also. It's only a matter of time.

7

vvpan 4 days ago

Not sure about Unilogin but at the moment Argent requires you to provide your phone number and the account is tied to it. I am no security expert to claim that it prevents Sybil attacks, but so-far it's been working. But yes - being a business subsidizing transactions ain't easy at the moment. Argent better monetize, cause I really like them (they are also #22 on the Eth Gas Station ETH25 Leaderboard, yay).

5

trogdortb001 MyCrypto - Jordan 4 days ago

This is a bummer. This is also a FANTASTIC post and outlines many problems, assumptions, and results, and I recommend everyone read this from top to bottom.

Best of luck to Alex and the rest of the UniLogin team in their future endeavors.

18

redditsucks_goruqqus 4 days ago

>This is a bummer. Double bummer when you consider that UniLogin is entirely aware of existing and upcoming L2 solutions but found them lacking.

7

alicenekocat 3 days ago

Despite on what many think, L2s lack on many fronts. Complexity increases almost exponentially and lack of composability is a real issue that no L2 deals with. That's why the recommendation is always: "Use it if you just wanna move tokens around". Else, build at your own risk. Developer time is precious and finite, you can't just go and explore a production ready app on L2 just because. The switch to ETH 2 also adds an additional dose of uncertainty to the mix.

2

epic_trader 3 days ago

Triple bummer when you consider that avsa loudly encouraged everyone else to stop working on login solutions because his team was working on it and made it sound like everyone else would be wasting their time

5

redditsucks_goruqqus 3 days ago

I mean maybe he did them a favor though, so minus one bummer?

1

3 2

6 2

8 2

duong1989 6 days ago

Good perspectives to keep thinking about.

2

LucSr 6 days ago

> You can’t escape the fingerprints of thermodynamics

Assume the real term time preference rate 0.5% and the worldwide average price of one kwh at 0.1 USD and the worldwide narrow money plus gold at 4.61E+13 USD, the annual energy budget to establish trust is 8.29E+18 Joules which is 1.42% of the annual worldwide total energy consumption 5.84E+20 Joules. Assume people don't change ratios of energy consumption of each economy sector as economy expands, the 1.42% of trust token maintenance/production sector remains. It means the energy fingerprints is always not an issue if the mining task can be decentralized.

> Lightning ..

People who buy in the Lightning scale solution may prefer staying off chain forever so OP's argument is not justified.

3

Bitcoin_puzzler 6 days ago

Oh no the scalability "problem" is back

2

ride_the_LN 6 days ago

Mining is likely to become more distributed we near hard physical limits on efficiency and mining chips are fully commoditized. Remember that electric space heater that mines?

Nobody's making money on lightning fees either, channels are one-time setup and rarely need to be closed. Seems like it's doing fine... anyone having issues?

4

LightningHosted 6 days ago

Meme

0

Bitcoin_Acolyte 6 days ago

Are we hurtling towards another situation where bitcoiners were promised cheap and free payments only to find out that's not technically feasible but this time with lighting? I think lighting is amazing but the last time this conception and reality diverged it caused the bitcoin community some major growing pains.

2

TheGreatMuffin 6 days ago

Despite the controversial title, I encourage anyone to give it a read, there are some good thoughts in it.

The TL;DR of the biggest point is: [large scale] mining is impossible to pull off without a thermodynamic fingerprint. This could create a systemic risk because miners are subject to their jurisdiction's laws/KYC obligations.

4

bitusher 6 days ago

This also means there are some benefits to small scale mining over large industrial mining. If large industrial miners are targeted by regulators , thieves , or terrorists this simply is an added inefficiency they take on to counter the efficiency of scale encouraging more decentralized mining that cannot easily be tracked and regulated. There are also some overlooked things in this article as far as other ways lightning is scaling leading to more efficient use of onchain capacity like splicing or the fact that larger onchain fees can amortize across millions of lightning txs.

2

Gaspa79 6 days ago

Yeah, that's a good TL;DR. Some points are just... moot? Like the crushed expectations part. The author is plain wrong about something: it talks about the flood and loot attack on LN, and how things like that motivated the bcash split for bigger blocks due to unreasonable expectations. That's simply not true: having an 8mb block will not solve any of those "crushed expectations". Those things had nothing to do with the split. Also, if you think the attack the author linked is possible with a 2-4mb (segwitted) blocksize but it's not with an 8mb blocksize you're dreaming. Furthermore, the core idea of comparing the lightning network attack to the blocksize is wrong: For the attack to happen there should be a lightning 'backlog' of transactions that are much, **MUCH** bigger than what an 8 megabyte block would be able to handle. So what's the point here? "Lightning doesn't scale that much, and look at this attack. Oh, things like these motivated the split... but not even a 10mb block would solve this volume, so the split was useless to address this." What's wrong with this part of the article is that the author seems to know what he's talking about, but he is just combining his/her scattered knowledge of btc stuff into a bunch of nonsense.

8

TheGreatMuffin 6 days ago

> The author is plain wrong about something: it talks about the flood and loot attack on LN, and how things like that motivated the bcash split for bigger blocks due to unreasonable expectations. That's simply not true: having an 8mb block will not solve any of those "crushed expectations". Those things had nothing to do with the split. Hm, I don't think he is talking about block size. I also don't think he means that a split will have anything to do with a block size itself, he is just giving an example of the previous split off caused by the block size controversy (some people's expectations of cheap tx's/large blocks got "crushed"). And makes an analogy that in Lightning people expect cheap and micropayments to work out infinitely, which might not be the case in the future and lead to disappointment of those people. It doesn't seem to me he is talking about specific Lightning attacks, but about the consequences on the "social layer" (disappointment by overpromises/hype/misunderstanding) and lots of infrastructure being broken because it relied heavily on micropayments being viable. Anyway, what is your opinion on the mining part?

3

bittenbycoin 6 days ago

Does bitcoin need 150 ExaHash to survive?

1

TheGreatMuffin 6 days ago

This isn't a "yes or no" question. The answer depends on how much energy and hardware investments those 150 exahash represent and how easy it is to acquire those. The number is relative and doesn't give much absolute information about the security level of the network. The more important question is: how easy is it for a malicious party to reach the majority (or a significant portion) of the hashrate? Also, hardware efficiency improves over time, so even if 150 exahash sounds massive today, it probably won't sound so massive anymore in a few years time.

1

soontobesilenced redditor for 3 months 1 week ago

When you're powerless to help, all you can do is complain.

1

23 2

Hooftly 5 days ago

Thanks for sharing here.

1

exoticparticle observant 1 week ago

I'd like to be a fly on Brian Armstrong's wall as he reads this.

12

Epidemic_Fancy 1 week ago

Ditto; was thinking along similar lines after reading this.

3

Paouky 1 week ago

Thanks for sharing, interesting read.

They left out an important privacy attribute of grin (pre-broadcast aggregation) but they would have reached the same conclusion nonetheless.

2

jesuispero 1 week ago

Don't lose the forest for the trees. Did anyone even read the paper?
Most of their suggestions, regarding Monero, if implemented by exchanges and payment service providers would mean a nightmare for everyone in this community except for those select few that are already well connected, have fancy lawyers and "optimal" legal structures.

We as a community shouldn't condone or incentivize this type of discourse, even if it means financial "gains" in the short term. Most of their suggestions if put in practice would be a direct attack on Monero users, and yet here we are, celebrating. As /u/geonic_correctly pointed out this paper feels like a missed opportunity more than anything else.

We as a community need to remain vigilant and not fall for the same traps that have plagued some other projects in this space, code can change, communities consensus can change, be mindful of playing the state apparatus game and hoping that somehow you'll "win" by playing by their rules. You'll lose, badly.

Even if some people would be financially better off in the short term. That was never Monero's goal, keep that in mind.

12

ErCiccione Monero Ecosystem 1 week ago

> playing the state apparatus game and hoping that somehow you'll "win" by playing by their rules. You'll lose, badly. Get a moral gold medal. I'm happy to see there are still people in this community who refuse this kind of regulatory bullshit. I hate to see many acting like Monero will survive only if it will fit state regulations. Too many seem to see Monero as simply a product that needs to fit as many regulations as possible to become mainstream. I don't care of Monero becoming mainstream and worth 1 bajillion a coin. People who actually need Monero will never go through KYC or other regulatory bullshit. They will use an half-broken smartphone found in the streets of a city in Rwanda to send money to the rebels who are trying to overthrow the dictatorship.

6

Alex058 1 week ago

How did this whitepaper change the community from cypherpunk to regulatory bootlickers? The tech hasnt changed, the people neither: chill man! EDIT: ErCiccione pointed out to me he didnt write anything like this, I must have read it elsewhere. Anyhow, my apologies to him EDIT2: I see I mixed up two replies, but that doesnt change the fact I was wrong 😅

1

ErCiccione Monero Ecosystem 1 week ago

> How did this whitepaper change the community from cypherpunk to regulatory bootlickers? I never said any of that. You should probably reread my comments.

2

Alex058 1 week ago

Hi, I would have sworn I had read that exact words in one of your replies. But cant find it now, so I must have been mistaking, hence my well meant apalogies! I will edit my reply immediately

3

jesuispero 1 week ago

Also it's worth keeping in mind that loose community agreements shift, new people join the community, etc BTC community was mostly cypherpunk at some point, it's far from it these days, sometimes those things change fast.

4

Alex058 1 week ago

Agreed. Good thing is, if this community would change for the bad, a new one would arise

3

tempMonero123 1 week ago

Monero can still be used outside of regulatory requirements, just like physical cash can. If Monero was made only to fit in such requirements (become neutered to the point it's basically Bitcoin), then I would have a problem with it.

3

jesuispero 1 week ago

> I'm happy to see there are still people in this community who refuse this kind of regulatory bullshit. I hate to see many acting like Monero will survive only if it will fit state regulations. Too many seem to see Monero as simply a product that needs to fit as many regulations as possible to become mainstream. I don't care of Monero becoming mainstream and worth 1 bajillion a coin. I think we can close this thread now :)

1

rbrunner7 XMR Contributor 1 week ago

> They will use an half-broken smartphone found in the streets of a city in Rwanda to send money to the rebels who are trying to overthrow the dictatorship. Woah, you lean pretty far out of the window here :) But yeah, has something.

3

ErCiccione Monero Ecosystem 1 week ago

I could have made a softer example about rural asian communities receiving fundings for their farm in XMR directly to their phone from a random guy in australia, but the rwanda rebels thing was a more powerful example :P

3

MoneroArbo 1 week ago

Do you have any specific concerns?

3

jesuispero 1 week ago

On another note, another high-level concern I have is that we as a community will change our culture and start focusing on these "compliance questions" too much, foregoing possible protocol improvements/research because that would potentially mean "delisting". Being not compliant with policies as draconian as the FAFT or AMLD5, would in other periods in this community, not that long ago, been seen as a badge of honor. Or that we'll become gradually more like the Bitcoin community, more and more focused on "number go up", "institutional investors" and similar crap like that.

7

ErCiccione Monero Ecosystem 1 week ago

This is probably my biggest fear. Luckily that's not the case yet, but i cannot hide that seeing so many in the community being so focused about compliance (not talking about the average guy who only wants to see numbers going up, talking about actual contributors) worries me. Luckily i don't see key developers like moneromooo becoming regulatory bootlickers, so as long as things stay as they are, we are good. On a personal note, i wouldn't really want to be part of a project focused on pleasing institutions and regulations. That's not the reason i'm here.

7

jesuispero 1 week ago

"To target and lessen the anonymity-related risks of privacy coins, appropriate enhanced due diligence would likely include measures to prove a customer’s source of funds, place of residence, and profession. Other measures may include a requirement that customers describe in detail their purpose for transacting privacy coins (e.g., the holder is a cryptocurrency trader or operates a business in which cryptocurrency is accepted as payment), along with anticipated privacy coin transaction volumes and anticipated privacy coin transaction counterparties." "Although it would be a blunter instrument for risk mitigation than per-customer analysis, a VASP could reasonably and effectively lessen the overall AML risk of a privacy coin offering by categorically prohibiting customers who are in higher risk categories or geographies from accessing the privacy coin offering" " a VASP could require supplemental information from a customer before processing a privacy coin transaction (e.g., details regarding the purpose of a transaction, the name and address of the recipient, and contact information for the recipient)." "Users can reveal an XMR transaction’s details that are specific to their account via key-based functionality that is built into the Monero protocol. Specific view keys can be shared with any third party to grant insight into the account associated with the view keys. This enables users and VASPs to disclose certain transaction details associated with a given account to a third party without publicly disclosing that user’s transactional information. In addition, VASPs can require up-front disclosures as part of their registration process and on an ongoing basis to meet their obligations." Imagine if all (or a combination of the above) becomes the standard of the industry, is this (as a community) what we are really rooting/lobbying for?

11

tempMonero123 1 week ago

Yes, those are concerns, and I'd rather not have those requirements. However it doesn't stop Monero from being a useful tool. This would prevent people from *not* 'being their own bank'. People can still use Monero to transact and secure their wealth and pay for things without going through a bank or other financial institution. I don't like discrimination, and this could prevent someone like a cam performer from getting a crypto bank account (even though their services are legal, places like PayPal already refuse to have them as customers). This hypothetical cam performer may not be able to get a traditional mortgage, but they could still rent-to-own. I'm sure other products/services would pop up in the future that would allow for people to more safely 'be their own bank'.

1

tododiamesmacoisa 1 week ago

> Imagine if all (or a combination of the above) becomes the standard of the industry, is this (as a community) what we are really rooting/lobbying for? Eh, maybe. I mean, even if that becomes the industry standard... This community would develop alternatives, as some of them already exist. The goal of the paper was to prove that Monero can be completely aligned with KYC/AML practices and there's no need to ban it, which would be a lot, really a lot worse than just forcing KYC in the standard exchanges.

4

jesuispero 1 week ago

"Standard" exchanges that want to list Monero already do without (almost) none of the above measures. Coinbase doesn't list Monero because they don't want to, period.

2

tododiamesmacoisa 1 week ago

Cool. So I don't get your point. This whole whitepaper is literally just ammunition for when people or other entities come around spewing bullshit that they need to ban monero or something like that because it's impossible to apply the existing regulations to it. I prefer to have this ammunition than to not have it.

4

jesuispero 1 week ago

That the suggestions they make, if they were to become standard across the industry, would be a disaster for monero users.

2

Alex058 1 week ago

I disagree. This is allready standard practice with normal banks/fiat, as it is with buying crypto from VASPS’s with a bit higher volumes. I’d rather have XMR then USD, being sure there’s no unlimited printing AND I can buy stuff without companies knowing what and where I buy my groceries

2

jesuispero 1 week ago

Great that normal banks/fiat is the standard we hold ourselves up to these days. Regarding the rest, if your grocery store were to be using a payment processor they would potentially fall under some of this regulations, were they to follow some of this recommendations it's not necessarily true that "companies wouldn't know where you buy your groceries". Also, this paper clearly incentivizes entities to discriminate against "privacy coin" (blergh!) users to a degree of scrutiny that "other coin" users are not subject. That in of itself is concerning, it could also be used by current market participants (that deal with monero with no issues) to change their compliance policies to incorporate some of these suggestions. All in all, it's nothing to write home about, let alone celebrate.

3

TrasherDK 1 week ago

Cool. Been waiting for this one forever.

2

endogenic XMR Contributor 1 week ago

Great effort on this.

I did notice the following references to auditing Monero exist in the paper...

Specific view keys can be shared with any third party to grant insight into the account associated with the view keys.

...

The confidential transactions feature is a cryptographic tool that allows for verification that no additional XMR has been created or destroyed as part of a given transaction, without revealing the exact transaction amount. ^(42)

...

Unlike the Bitcoin protocol, Monero users have two sets of private keys and public keys (four keys total). The pair of public keys make up the wallet address of a Monero user, whereas the two private keys (the view key and spend key) allow an individual to determine whether an output is addressed to them (view key) and enables the individual to send XMR and determine whether it has been spent (spend key).^(43) To verify transfers of XMR, a third-party observer must know that the XMR is owned by the individual using it. To enable this verification, the individual using the XMR signs the previously received XMR with the one-time address used, thereby proving that the individual knows the private keys and therefore rightfully controls the XMR that the individual is using. The private view key may be given to others to grant transparency into certain details of particular transactions associated with the address or addresses. Monero also contains an optional text field called “tx_extra” that can store arbitrary data in encrypted format. While this text field can be used for a variety of compliance purposes, this use has not been widely recommended by researchers and developers.^(44)

… which are great!

But I personally would like to have seen a small section to show (via the Monero command-line system or a symbolic representation) some techniques, specific tools, and processes of exactly how legally liable entities or operators can, in PC's confidence, sufficiently comply, maybe with some basic examples for different entity types.

How awesome that PC did this!

5

fluffyponyza XMR Core Team 1 week ago

> How awesome that PC did this! Just want to point out that they didn't do this of their own volition. Tari Labs commissioned it, and paid for it (with the help of some others).

7

endogenic XMR Contributor 1 week ago

Yes, I remember working on an original high level technical description of how Monero works during the MRL workshop which MyMonero and Tari sponsored and Naveen and I put on. We called it a one-sheet and it was requested for this 'regulatory writeup' work. Its on the MRL workshop minutes from back then, sarang, surae and I wrote it in Nashville, but was years before we saw what we became of it so I'm glad to see the post..

4

pcre 1 week ago

Can I violate the money laundering law as a private person? Suppose I sell Monero on localmonero.co for cash. I cannot check whether the money comes from illegal transactions. I have to assume the innocence of the other person. The money laundering law turns this around. You have to prove your innocence.

4

_o__0_ 1 week ago

With regard to the “ease of crossing borders” factor, privacy coins and other cryptocurrencies present a higher inherent AML risk than cash, which is physically bulky and therefore more difficult to transport across borders, because large amounts of cash would require sufficient physical transportation and passing government border security. But privacy coins and other cryptocurrencies arguably pose a lower risk, in this respect, than cash, card, or paper payment instruments, which can cross borders with no transfer record at all (i.e., not even a publicly broadcast blockchain transaction

.

Where on-chain surveillance tools cannot be used, a VASP would still have ample controls to address AML risks of privacy coin transactions.

2

soccersousa 1 week ago

When Coinbase

4

Febos 1 week ago

Coinbase can afford to hire their own lawyers to write them this opinion. This is meant for smaller companies.

4

TrasherDK 1 week ago

When big daddy tells them they can, or they grow some balls. Whichever comes first :)

4

terrim_arque Redditor for 5 months. 1 week ago

Thank you for sharing this. Perkins Coie is very much of the "old generation". It's good to see they're writing about crypto at all.

5

onestrokeimdone Redditor for 4 months. 1 week ago

They aren't as "old generation" as you may think. They represented Brave/BAT at ICO which is one of the first and more legitimate operations.

3

Febos Opensource Maximalist 1 week ago

They also represented Amazon Amazon in its IPO in 1997.

1

ff14store 1 week ago

Safety compliance is important!

1

d_goddard 1 week ago

Thank you team Tari

6

subarun7 1 week ago

Good opinion, but we need a little more practical effort. I hope this report would be helps to convince the US Congress or crush their irrational regulations in court.

2

endorxmr 1 week ago

Those regulations are very rational. Deeply malicious, but rational.

3

Kukri4321 Observer 1 week ago

This is a huge feather in Monero's cap, or indeed any of the coins following in their footsteps.

9

johnfoss68 1 week ago

Great work, and well done to all those involved in making it happen.

6

aminok Platinum | BTC 1321, ETH 1101, CC 422 | TraderSubs 1 week ago

It's very encouraging to see this kind of high-level support for privacy, but I think it needs to be forcefully argued that "anti-money-laundering" laws themselves are a grievance assault on privacy rights.

The term 'anti-money-laundering' is an Orwellian euphemism for warrantless mass-surveillance of private financial interactions, and the existence and steady accumulation of these warrantless mass-surveillance laws is a fundamental affront to a free society.

15

tempMonero123 Platinum | QC: XMR 1070, CC 1014, CM 25 | TraderSu 1 week ago

It's important to note that Monero can still be used outside of regulatory oversight just like physical cash can.

3

slevemcdiachel Silver | QC: CC 89 | NANO 56 1 week ago

Regardless of your views on privacy, you are correct that this means nothing in practice. The only reason that the current regulations are enough in their eyes, is that XMR (or crypto users as a whole) have to convert to FIAT at some point or another to make their crypto holding valuable and at that point there's KYC all around. So for their perspective there's no need for extra regulations because there's already KYC in one end of the spectrum that applies for (virtually) everyone.

3

cesastorson 1 week ago

as a huuuuge lover of monero, I strongly disagree. Money laundering is the mechanism that allows criminals to do crime. Its what makes crime profitiable in the first place. Its why one of the first rules for investigating crime (and investigative reporting for that matter) is "follow the money". Anti-money-laundering laws allow law enforment to follow the money. If buisnesses did not have to follow anti money laundering laws, it would be practicly impossible for law enforment to meaningfully follow the money. I agree they can go to far, especially when it comes to live government monitering of financial transactions, *especially* if such monitering is done without a warrent. But the current regulatory regime is not like that at all. the US only *requuires* buisness to know their custimer, and keep good records (which any good buisness should be doing *anyways*).

1

aminok Platinum | BTC 1321, ETH 1101, CC 422 | TraderSubs 1 week ago

> Anti-money-laundering laws allow law enforment to follow the money. If buisnesses did not have to follow anti money laundering laws, it would be practicly impossible for law enforment to meaningfully follow the money. Warrantless wiretapping of all electronic communications would also allow investigators to "follow the conversation", and discover what people are saying and to who, to uncover and solve crimes, but it would give enormous powers to the state over the individuals, and allow for nearly unlimited abuse and concentration of power in the organs of the state. Just as warrantless mass-surveillance of private communication is wrong, so is warrantless mass-surveillance of private financial interactions. Anti-money-laundering laws institute warrantless mass-surveillance. The dangers of totalitarian surveillance far outweigh the dangers of law enforcement not being able to use it to uncover crime. At its worst, the former allows for institutionalized tyranny, as we see in the dystopia that the Chinese Communist Party is creating in Xinxiang. Even milder varieties of mass-surveillance lead to extreme concentrations of power as they create significant information asymmetries between the general public and those who are privy to the information collected by the surveillance agencies. Yes, investigators wouldn't be able to "follow the money" without these totalitarian laws, but that is the price you pay to have a free society where people are secure in their most basic of rights. Money has utility to the extent that it is fungible, and to the extent that it is fungible, then criminals will be able to make use of money they generate from illicit activity. You don't eliminate fungibility in the name of preventing crime, just as you don't ban encrypted communication in the name of preventing crime. If the problem is organized crime generating hundreds of millions of dollars in illicit revenue, then you go after the source, in the activity that is generating the revenue. You don't try to "trace the money" after the fact, once they have already acquired it. The kinds of organizations that produce these huge revenue windfalls leave plenty of evidence trails, in the physical merchandise they move, the people they employ and the victims they create, that can allow any competent law enforcement agency to begin and prosecute an investigation against them. The investigative toolkit available to law enforcement in a society that respects privacy/due-process-rights is still significant. It includes the ability to plant under-cover agents in criminal organizations, to pay and pressure insiders to turn confidential informants, to get a warrant to conduct targetted surveillance, etc etc. And the state can use these tools to focus on the meaningful crime, instead of the "money laundering" that happens after the fact. For example, if it is targeting drug cartels, it can focus on the movement and trade of the drugs themselves, and not a second-order effect of the trade, which is the movement of the money that is generated from the drug sales. It is much easier to detect, trade and prosecute people for the trade of highly restricted Schedule I substances like fentanyl, which is a physical substance, than to stop the flow of cash that is derived from such activity, which will never be highly restricted, and can be done digitally and through innumerable channels. The state should be focusing on the prior, not the latter. By the time the criminal organizations are doing the latter, it is already too late anyway. In other words, if the state cannot stop a criminal organization from trading highly restricted Schedule I substances like fentanyl, to acquire hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue, with all of the legitimate tools at its disposal, it is not going to be able to stop these organizations from moving the money they receive from that trade, regardless of what surveillance powers it is given. The argument that the state needs all this control, to monitor everyone's private financial interactions, is just a cop-out to avoid doing the real work of policing and prosecuting real crime, to exert more government control over the law-abiding majority, and to create more positions in the private banking sector and government bureaucracies, for highly paid "AML experts" and "consultants".

3

geonic_ 1 week ago

While I applaud the effort, it's disappointing that they decided to amplify the "privacy coin" meme. "Privacy-preserving" or "privacy-enabling cryptocurrencies" should've been used throughout. I would've also liked to see a section on "privacy-eroding cryptocurrencies", starting with Bitcoin, and how that affects the individual user.

This was an opportunity to change the narrative around this technology and to underline how Bitcoin's radical transparency is the niche, not Monero's privacy-preserving technology. To explain to regulators and others that Bitcoin is unlike *any product* currently available in the financial world. Does any bank offer a transparent account that anyone can peer into? Why not?

The paper also misses some of the more important benefits of fungible money. Guilt by association is a thing with Bitcoin. You need to not only be sure of the person you receive your Bitcoin from, but also be careful who you spend it with, since that person might commit a crime and you are the source of his funds. Bitcoin erodes freedoms on so many levels it is preposterous.

26

MoneroFanboy 1 week ago

All the points you make are valid but it also seems you are ignoring what a good thing this is. Yes, it’s not perfect. But yesterday there wasn’t a specific legal axiom for exchanges in the USA to support Monero alongside KYC/AML and today there is. Let’s celebrate that Geonic.

12

geonic_ 1 week ago

Cheers! I'll open a beer to that achievement. If it’s enough to get Paul Grewal and Noah Perlman over the hump, I’ll uncork the Barolo.

8

HoboHaxor 1 week ago

Does it really matter? Cryptologists, mathematicians, scholars, security experts, all have testified before congress/senate stating the backdooring crypto just won't work. Yet the keep writing new bills and will until the anti encryption passes.

10

SamsungGalaxyPlayer Karma CC: 3278 XMR: 9323 1 week ago

Tons of greats quotes in this one, including some where PC suggests privacy coins are lower risk in practice than Bitcoin, but the conclusion perhaps put it most simply:

"Allowing VASPs to support privacy tokens under current, tested AML regulations strikes the appropriate policy balance between preventing money laundering and allowing beneficial, privacy-preserving technology to develop"

17

ethereumflow Redditor for 4 months. 1 week ago

This sounds like rather good news for Monero. For once it’s not “stop privacy”.

11

unjack 1 week ago

I still don't see how it helps.

5

TrasherDK 1 week ago

Wrong reply.

3

Febos 1 week ago

1. It will help random new guy that heard of Monero and then heard FUD how not complaint Monero is with regulations and how will be delisted from all exchanges. 2. It will help small exchanges or small merchants or any service that plan to use or use Monero and was uncertain because of the FUD. Now will normally continue doing what they were doing or start doing it with Monero. And they will point to the paper when people will ask about it. 3. It will help you and me to explain to people, that FUD how Monero dont have future and how only surveillance coins will exist, is false.

18

aaj094 1 week ago

Well, for a while it has been a view that exchanges are hesitant to list monero because of regulatory concerns. This paper seems to allay fears that privacy coins are inherently incompatible with current regulatory regimes.

8

dEBRUYNE_1 Moderator 1 week ago

In sum:

We conclude that privacy coins protect legitimate individual and commercial privacy interests and that existing financial regulations sufficiently address the AML issues that privacy coins present.

And:

Not only do privacy coins provide public benefits that substantially outweigh their risks, existing AML regulations properly and sufficiently cover those risks, providing a proven framework for combatting money laundering and related crimes.

65

PhillyFan1977 1 week ago

Exactly 100% agree. There is no need for any further regulations

2

Epidemic_Fancy 1 week ago

Thank you; (and) yes this is a moment we all need to seriously appreciate and remember. We are here in a place of important historical remembrance where we prove our freedom is justifiably interwoven with truth and privacy as well as anti criminal pursuits. Beautifully written and now “peer” reviewed. Thank you to all who have made our wonderful and abstract journey possible. Have a beautiful day.

5

CaptainPatent 1 week ago

Glad the attorneys at Perkins Coie have their heads on straight. Hopefully regulators agree.

28

geonic_ 1 week ago

Lawyers think whatever you pay them to think. I wouldn't take what they've written as a personally held opinion. Otherwise they would've written it without being commissioned by Tari Labs & Co (and it would've taken them less time, but, you know... they charge by the hour). Does anyone really think Perkins Coie would refuse to argue FOR the government (or any other institution) and AGAINST privacy-preserving cryptocurrencies, if they had approached them first? Because they believe in the technology? Please.

17

CaptainPatent 1 week ago

> Lawyers think whatever you pay them to think. "No we don't" -The attorneys of Perkins Coie. *This message has been paid for by a grant from the reddit antagonists fund*

10

geonic_ 1 week ago

🤣 Exactly.

3

SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor 1 week ago

They still stand by their word. Perkins Coie is a well-known, prestigious law firm with their reputation on the line. ***They*** said everything in this whitepaper, not anyone else.

21

geonic_ 1 week ago

Not arguing that. I'm saying that I can't judge their moral character by their professional output. >Does anyone really think Perkins Coie would refuse to argue FOR the government (or any other institution) and AGAINST privacy-preserving cryptocurrencies, if they had approached them first? Because they believe in the technology? What do you think about this part?

7

SamsungGalaxyPlayer XMR Contributor 1 week ago

I simply don't understand how that question is relevant.

4

geonic_ 1 week ago

I was replying to someone who had said that the lawyers "have their head on straight". That implies a moral judgment. If they had refused to argue for the other side or had done the work pro bono, because they believe in the cause, I might be inclined to agree.

9

Tallest-man 1 week ago

At long last!! Thanks Perkins!

7

Kukri4321 1 week ago

Woo! Been waiting for this!

8

25 12 10

Brooke ⚡️ - @bitcoinmom

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

261 1563

Miko Matsumura ㋡ - @mikojava

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

261 1562

Ryan Selkis - @twobitidiot

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

218 1365

Michael Casey - @mikejcasey

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

121 806

Barry Silbert - @barrysilbert

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

121 802

Marco Santori - @msantoriESQ

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

66 441

Pierre Rochard - @pierre_rochard

RT @jespow: You can't make this stuff up. This timeline is beyond twisted. Certainly didn't see a banking license in the cards when we set out on this mission 9 years ago. We have come full circle, crypto. Looking forward to banking you all and banning the accounts of sketchy fiat peddlers. https://t.co/qCGXvUbsSd https://t.co/9JDJTNg9Fg

148 1224

Preston Byrne - @prestonjbyrne

RT @KPTlaw: This is fairly significant. Kraken charts a path for other crypto exchanges to become full service banks. Big banks better quickly get on board or they’ll lose assets slowly, then suddenly. https://t.co/2jNBUeIzMb

240 1469

Justin - @MindsFiction

This is the cycle where crypto flips Wall Street. https://t.co/70TdFmtCMJ

1 2

John Lilic - @JohnLilic

RT @pete_rizzo_: #Bitcoin 🤝 banking. "Kraken will operate an online and mobile-first banking model. We want to make it as easy as possible for people to access and manage their money via a single-portal client experience." https://t.co/NVV1ISTQk1

8 20

AutoModerator 3 days ago

Welcome to r/patient_hackernews! Remember that in this subreddit, commenting requires a special process:

Declare your intention of commenting by posting a pre-comment containing only the single letter R. (This pre-comment will not be visible to others.)
Wait 24 hours or more (you will receive a reminder).
You can then post a new comment with your actual reply in the same location.

Comments that don't abide by the 24h delay will be automatically removed.

NOTE: since step 3 is not mandatory, pre-comments can also be left as a way to set up a reminder to check up on the discussion in 24h.

More information on how this forum works.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

qznc_bot2 3 days ago

There is a discussion on Hacker News, but feel free to comment here as well.

1

T-888 6 days ago

When can I open an account? I am ready!

1

kraken-walter Kraken Support - official 4 days ago

Hello [T-888](https://np.reddit.com/user/T-888/), We are unable to share a specific date at the moment. Consider subscribing to our [**blog**](https://blog.kraken.com) for any announcements. Stay tuned! Walter from Kraken

2

ispynlie 6 days ago

Congrats guys! That hard work paying off

2

vedran_ Future staker 6 days ago

Tweetstorm is way more epic!

1

Yourkeysyourbitcoin 6 days ago

Not your keys, not your Bitcoin

0

Cryptolution 1 week ago

Kraken Financial, as a bank, is required by Wyoming law to maintain 100% reserves of its deposits of fiat currency at all times. If every client were to demand withdrawals of their fiat at the same moment, Kraken Financial would be able to fulfill each withdrawal immediately without regard to how many loans we had outstanding.

How are people not commenting on this? This post has been up for 13 hours and not a single mention of it.

This is fucking fantastic news guys. Things are being done right.

3

RedPill43 redditor for 5 weeks 6 days ago

*say one thing* and do another

1

AllBlackCrypto 1 week ago

so im like here waiting for bankera to let me receive swift transfers from the us to get payed directly to an exchange without needing to convert to euro and kraken goes and buys a us bank. what will happen first. kraken allowing non us persons to open bank accounts to receive an ach which I believe will cost me zero or bankera having a way to receive swift transfers? i cant wait to be able to remove my current bank (dukascopy) from the equation of receiving my freelance payments (in my country there is currency control and the goverment forces you to convert your payments at a very very bad rate)

1

joshuawakefield 1 week ago

This is the just another beautiful step on our eah to $10,000.

4

KoreanJesusFTW Ξ Cryptonian 6 days ago

Been saying this and will keep on at it: IF ETH DOESN'T REACH 10K ON IT'S 10TH YEAR AS BTC DID WHEN IT TURNED 10, I AM CALLING IT A FAILURE. I mean come on. ETH has a far more solid set of offerings, features, utility (it's a platform FFS!) so fundamentals are there. That whole advantage on the being first crypto will matter less over time. 10k is a walk in a park if anything.

1

TrueNorth49th redditor for 7 weeks 1 week ago

Very interesting!! Adoption zone here!!!

2

randomnomber 1 week ago

Kraken needs to go easy on the email spam. I don't need an update on this every day.

1

UnknownEssence 1 week ago

You can turn off those notifications

2

SamsungGalaxyPlayer Karma CC: 3278 XMR: 9323 1 week ago

Removed as duplicate https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/itwlie/kraken_just_won_approval_to_create_americas_first/

1

iguanarchist 1 week ago

So, when will I be able to deposit my paycheck to Kraken for DAI?

4

AllBlackCrypto 6 days ago

i too want the answer to this

1

Spartan3123 1 week ago

This is good for bitcoin

3

Banana_Salsa 6 days ago

Do you think it's good for ripple as well?

0

italianjob16 1 week ago

This is non-news they were already a bank in europe

0

Snwmn88 1 week ago

No they weren't

8

AnselmoTheHunter 1 week ago

I would love to invest in Kraken. Is there a way to do that?

1

steviecrypto redditor for 4 days 1 week ago

This is enormous news for the crypto community. Salute to all you who HODL!

4

CaptainCaveSam 1 week ago

Wyoming is the real hero here with its 13 blockchain laws.

8

cryptolicious501 Silver | QC: KIN 189, CC 176, ETH 42 | VET 51 | Tr 1 week ago

“We would expect to offer a host of new products as we get established,” Kinitsky said. “Those will range from things like qualified custody for institutions, digital-asset debit cards and savings accounts all the way to new types of asset classes. We can engage with securities and commodities and things like that as a bank. So a lot more TBD there.”

Look for JP Morgan to follow suit within a year.

IM assuming as a resident of Texas I wouldn't have access to Krakens services from Wyoming then again it seems as if services they are offering are the same as what JP Morgan would offer? Am I correct in this? IM trying to find out how much of this is a win for crypto.

6

Kraken-Marcus Redditor for 4 months. 6 days ago

Hello [cryptolicious501](https://np.reddit.com/user/cryptolicious501/) At this time we do not have any more specifics to share regarding Kraken Financial. Please consider subscribing to our blog for more details and announcements. [https://blog.kraken.com/](https://blog.kraken.com/) [https://blog.kraken.com/post/6241/kraken-wyoming-first-digital-asset-bank/](https://blog.kraken.com/post/6241/kraken-wyoming-first-digital-asset-bank/)  Best, Marcus from Kraken.

2

cryptolicious501 Silver | QC: KIN 189, CC 176, ETH 42 | VET 51 | Tr 2 days ago

Marcus, Would Kraken be able to offer staking services for ETH Phase 0 before January 2021? Any word on this?

1

Kraken-Marcus Redditor for 4 months. 11 hs ago

Hello,  No word to share at this time. When/if this is to happen it will be announced on our [blog.kraken.com](https://blog.kraken.com)  Best, Marcus from Kraken.

1

cryptolicious501 Silver | QC: KIN 189, CC 176, ETH 42 | VET 51 | Tr 6 days ago

Thanks Marcus

1

ARoundForEveryone Gold | QC: CC 81, XRP 46 1 week ago

I don't know for sure, but Kraken says they will be open to US customers only at first. I don't know if that means any state or more like "we'll take anyone in the US, but individual states may forbid it".

1

taprots Redditor for 4 months. 1 week ago

Very interesting, looking forward to them expanding to europe.

3

lostweaponryu Redditor for 6 months. 1 week ago

This is a nice first step. Just goes to show how early we are in this space. It's gonna be a different landscape in another 10 years for sure.

5

Sfdao91 Redditor for 54 years. 1 week ago

Looking forward when dexes can onramp from fiat.

8

Tuned3f Smokin ETH Everyday 1 week ago

The on-ramp would be skipped in this context.

2

FUSCN8A 1 week ago

Looking forward to the day we don't need fiat.

7

idiotsecant 1 week ago

how would that even work?

3

CodeInTheMatrix 1 week ago

Basically CDBCs I think. Many countries are already onboarding a crypto version of their own currency. There are some challenges mostly to do with the economics. Some countries like to control the printing process aka Tether. So basically a eUSD that is likely distributed by the government itself. This is all in theory

1

phantom-warlord 1 week ago

This, is HUGE. An extremely underrated event.

I just got some questions;

Can you please expedite the process of expansion of kraken financial services into more countries? Expanding to new countries as a bank is alot easier than as a crypto exchange. Is this a priority or not?

Having a bank that accepts fiat and crypto while issuing debit cards, bank statements and is recognised as a bank is a huuuuge plus.

it is very important that you start offering staking services and high yield deposited. Most crypto exchanges offer 5% or more on deposits of stable coins. Offering this on your exchange based wing will be easier than your bank based wing since you dont need to keep 100% reserve, do you plan on offering this in the future?

2

kraken-sam Kraken Support - official 1 week ago

Hello [u/phantom-warlord](https://np.reddit.com/user/phantom-warlord/), Thank you for reaching out to us! Unfortunately, I can't answer your first question since such announcements can only be made officially via email and [blog.kraken.com](https://blog.kraken.com). We do currently offer off-chain staking services for Bitcoin (XBT), USD, and EUR to clients located in eligible countries. For more information on our off-chain staking program, please visit [Overview of Off-chain staking on Kraken](https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/360044886311-Overview-of-Off-chain-staking-on-Kraken). Please also visit [Off-chain staking eligibility and availability](https://support.kraken.com/hc/en-us/articles/360044886531) to check for availability. We certainly anticipate expansion of products and services to be announced in the near future, so please stay tuned to our [blog](https://blog.kraken.com) and your email inbox. Best, Sam from Kraken

2

phantom-warlord 1 week ago

Hello. Thank you for your reply. That is great to hear, am looking forward for expansion. Exciting times ahead!

2

clevariant 1 week ago

What new services will this allow for?

5

simplelifestyle 1 week ago

Kraken hopes to offer: > > -Digital asset custody > -Checking and savings accounts > -Wire transfers > -Trust accounts > -Online and mobile banking UIs > -Debit cards > -Account management services > -Little chained-up pens > -Deposit verifications https://twitter.com/msantoriESQ/status/1306247215162241024

7

ebliever 1 week ago

This is awesome and will make life easier for a lot of us dealing in both fiat and crypto. Now, since they are chartered in Wyoming, I just need them to open a brick-and-mortar location in Casper. :-)

3

bitsteiner 1 week ago

Finally a debit card that will work.

7

whitslack 1 week ago

Yes, seriously! No more of this "load fiat onto your prepaid debit card first by selling your bitcoins through our mobile app" bullshit.

5

clevariant 1 week ago

Nice.

3

igadjeed 1 week ago

> Digital asset custody But no digital asset withdrawal Yawn!

0

ebliever 1 week ago

They already have that, silly.

5

IDoThingsOnWhims 1 week ago

These are a list of new things. They obviously allow withdrawal, and actually the support page explicitly states that they are an exchange and not a wallet service.

4

bitsteiner 1 week ago

I assume custody implies deposit and withdrawal.

5

Stalslagga 1 week ago

Sounds big if true

14

coingun 1 week ago

It’s def true! “We are thrilled to announce that the State of Wyoming has approved Kraken’s application to form the world’s first Special Purpose Depository Institution (SPDI), and has granted a charter to Wyoming's newest state-chartered bank, tentatively called "Kraken Financial." Headquartered in Cheyenne, Wyoming, Kraken Financial will enable Kraken clients in the U.S. to bank seamlessly between digital assets and national currencies. From paying bills and receiving salaries in cryptocurrency to incorporating digital assets into investment and trading portfolios, Kraken Financial will be the first regulated, U.S. bank to provide comprehensive deposit-taking, custody and fiduciary services for digital assets. This new institution will be regulated in largely the same manner as other U.S. banks.”

27

idiotsecant 1 week ago

> receiving salaries in cryptocurrency finally, a non-shady way to do this. >paying bills in cryptocurrency sounds like a good way to have a 9000 page tax return.

7

SwagtimusPrime Daddy Swag 1 week ago

>From paying bills and receiving salaries in cryptocurrency to incorporating digital assets into investment and trading portfolios, Kraken Financial will be the first regulated, U.S. bank to provide comprehensive deposit-taking, custody and fiduciary services for digital assets. This is beyond exciting.

15

optimalsolver - @optimalsolver 2 days ago

I thought the whole point of crypto was to break with centralized financial services?

rahimnathwani - @rahimnathwani 3 days ago

More information about Wyoming's SPDI regulations here: http://wyomingbankingdivision.wyo.gov/home/areas-of-regulati...

Banks usually borrow short-term from depositors, lend/invest long-term, and make money due to (i) the upward sloping yield curve, and (ii) profitability pricing credit risk.

If that's how you understand what banks are, then SPDIs seems less like banks (which borrow from depositors) than to safe deposit box operators (which provide a place where depositors can keep valuables they don't want disturbed).

So what is Kraken getting from the SPDI designation? Access to bank payment networks like ACH etc.?

jeremyrwelch - @jeremyrwelch 3 days ago

VP Product at Kraken here. Have questions on the Kraken SPDI? Add them to this thread and I'll answer over the next few days.

If you want to build the SPDI with us -- we're actively hiring for Engineering, Product, Design and more.

hd4 - @hd4 3 days ago

It may help to amend the title to point out that Kraken is essentially a cryptocurrency exchange/trading platform.

adrr - @adrr 3 days ago

So no FDIC insurance on the accounts? That seems like a non starter. I don’t understand why Kraken didn’t just use brokered accounts like every other FI that doesn’t have a bank charter?

jakuboboza - @jakuboboza 2 days ago

I guess Wyoming did release the kraken ;).

historyremade - @historyremade 2 days ago

Don't dance. Don't dance yet. The Federal Reverse not gonna to give you guys a reverse account and without that you would only have licence without any functionality.

hrudham - @hrudham 3 days ago

Not related the article, but I cannot get off of Kraken's mailing list, and they won't stop spamming me. Clicking on the unsubscribe link in any of their emails has this quote in it: "Please note that this process will take 30 days to implement across our system". They they simply don't honour this, despite the 30 days in itself being ridiculous.

companyhen - @companyhen 3 days ago

Majority of HN hates to hear it, but crypto is the future. Onwards!

giantg2 - @giantg2 3 days ago

This makes me want Kraken rum.

mudlus - @mudlus 3 days ago

Funny this was like the day before this article about how banks have corrupted the governance of the world came out: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24535241

I thought banks were the enemy of Bitcoin? Guess it's market cap is high enough that it too must be corrupted by the powers at be.

Yizahi - @Yizahi 2 days ago

Wasn't Kraken one of the exchanges involved in the laundering of USDT tokens, created by Bitfinex out of thin air? I wouldn't trust anyone involved with USDT with keeping safe cut paper, let alone money or securities.

Show all comments on Hackernews

16 8

mngigi 2 days ago

So they spent $30 million of the $4 billion ICO money to buy a web domain. Smart move lol.

1

TommyofLeeds 4 days ago

"There are 3500 publicly traded companies and there’s $5 trillion in their treasuries and it’s all melting and at some point, you have a fiduciary obligation to not lose the money.” The next 12 months are going to be very interesting.

1

amhaas22 1 week ago

‘Wow this social media site is really innovative, nothing else like it today. I should buy bitcoin’

1

Dumptruckpancakes 1 week ago

MSTR stock up 10% today 👐

1

sylsau 1 week ago

A bold decision that everyone will remember in the future as a stroke of genius.

The first to take the step, but certainly not the last.

1

Romu_HS 1 week ago

voice is dead

3

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 week ago

Coming from someone who isn’t on Voice or who has friends that will invite them onto the platform lol Voice is the future of social media.

4

Romu_HS 1 week ago

Can't be the future if NOBODY IS FUCKING USING IT? WHERE ARE THE FIGURES?

4

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 week ago

Nobody, meaning you?? Lol Voice has a 70,000 person waitlist because you know, it’s in closed beta. And if you were on Voice, you would see that it is growing by the day and be ranked as the most used blockchain for social. Source: https://twitter.com/moore_chaney/status/1297172015976251392?s=21

1

Romu_HS 1 week ago

It’s the only blockchain for social what does it compare to main stream products?

0

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 week ago

Are you serious?? Lol Ok, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, etc. have a huge fake accounts/bots issue that cost them billions of dollars, users do not get paid for their content nor do they get compensated for sharing/curating, and anonymous trolls who hide behind a keyboard are forced to be accountable for their words and actions. Voice solves this.

1

Romu_HS 1 week ago

The most lied post of all time on VOICE has 243 likes. IVe received 10x more than that from shit posting on a shitty World of Warcraft server check my postage. Pathetic numbers Money can’t buy adoption and even if it could scaling voice to the size of Facebook would cost 2 billion in account creation.

1

Memec0in 1 week ago

>Voice has a 70,000 person waitlist because you know, it’s in closed beta. Some random guy on twitter is your source?

0

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 week ago

That “random guy on Twitter” is a moderator of this subreddit, a reporter/writer for EOSWriter, and literally just had an interview with Dan Larimer, a person who doesn’t give interviews to anybody. I trust him way more than your half-baked opinion, Memecoin Lol

1

Memec0in 6 days ago

>I trust him way more than your half-baked opinion, Memecoin Lol I sold my EOS stack in February (because of how shit Voice turned out to be, and I'm still on that list with two emails btw). Not a bad move in hindsight. Sometimes it pays to consider the opinions of people who aren't financially incentivized to lie. I don't believe the 70k figure for a second.

1

etmetm 1 week ago

It's great to have an excess of $500 million in cash to park.

Here's the thing: A lot of funds (pensions, insurance, hedge, universities and so forth) have the same "issue" of huge liquidity reserves. Many are willing to pay interest to hold government bonds - i.e. negative interest rates, when in fact they are meant to achieve a return on funds invested.

If some of them were allowed to invest just a portion of their funds into Bitcoin there's no worry about the missing demand side point of view in the S2F model.

3

stickypi 1 week ago

Selling voice.com domain name for $30M to EOS creator but buying BTC only, that speaks volume about all the alt coins

5

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 week ago

Yes it does, because Bitcoin will be wrapped on the EOS mainnet to finally achieve Satoshi’s vision of crypto cash.

0

slious 1 week ago

hahahahahahahahaha... hahahahahahahaha voice cant even run on mainnet....

0

ETHfan234 (But also EOSfan) 1 week ago

Voice will run on the mainnet in conjunction with several other eosio chains. Currently, voice isn’t because it’s in closed beta to correct bugs before it’s launched early next year.

1

Slapbox 1 week ago

Or, it only says anything about the person/people that sold the domain.

1

LinkifyBot 1 week ago

**I found links in your comment that were not hyperlinked:** * [voice.com](https://voice.com) *I did the honors for you.* *** ^[delete](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fu%2FLinkifyBot&subject=delete%20g5h16ep&message=Click%20the%20send%20button%20to%20delete%20the%20false%20positive.) ^| ^[information](https://np.reddit.com/u/LinkifyBot/comments/gkkf7p) ^| ^<3

1

Krieger_Clone_46 1 week ago

Cool. Maybe it could inspire a 175m investment into EOS next.

7

amhaas22 1 week ago

No shit!

0

btceacc 1 week ago

This is a huge bet for a publicly listed company. I'm actually quite surprised that the shareholders would let him go all in like that. There is still lots of risk holding Bitcoin - theft of keys, severe bug, drop in price, etc. This could end up in triumph or tragedy.

2

varikonniemi 1 week ago

You need more than 10 years of flawless operation and gain on investment to convince you?

2

btceacc 1 week ago

Software is never flawless and Bitcoin hasn't been an exception. The life of Bitcoin has been far from trouble-free but it is true that it's a feat it has come so far. Software development never ends though. If they ever decide to fix the obvious block-size problem or change the cipher to protect against quantum attacks, there will be major uncertainty and of course bugs. You can't say what will happen as a result of this and that is why I would always diversify.

0

varikonniemi 6 days ago

similarly as the bank's computer systems might crash and backups be corrupted, and suddenly all your money is gone.

0

btceacc 6 days ago

If you worked for a bank you'd know they have multiple redundancies and plan for various disasters. If they do lose your account details it would be as a result of a catastrophic event where money will be the least of your concerns.

1

varikonniemi 6 days ago

same is with bitcoin

1

btceacc 6 days ago

My original comment referred to quantum attacks and transactional limitations. Banks don't have these issues.

1

varikonniemi 6 days ago

neither does bitcoin. One on-chain tx can represent a million lightning transactions. And bitcoin is not vulnerable to quantum. > We find that in the near-term the impact of quantum computers appear to be rather smallfor all three directions. The impact of quantum computers would require considerably larger number of qubits and breakthroughs in quantum algorithms to reverse existing hash functions. Most of the internet needs to be rewritten before bitcoin needs to care. And even then the change of cryptographic primitive is quite trivial to do, without much danger as it only affects new transactions that opt-in. As is block size increase. Banks etc. have much harder times ahead to make themselves quantum proof once the technology might emerge after 50 years.

1

btceacc 6 days ago

Point 1 has already been disproved during periods of high transactional activity. No one is obliged to use Lightning and this naturally causes fees to rise and confirmations to become sluggish. Shoe me a bank that thinks that's acceptable.

1

varikonniemi 6 days ago

there are no sluggish confirmations, only underpaying cheap users. The whole point with bitcoin is that tx fees pay for the hashing security once block rewards drop. So the fees should rise, it means it is working as intended.

1

parakite 1 week ago

"stacking sats", he said in a press release.

3

sexyama 1 week ago

memes are powerful

3

sexyama 1 week ago

Taylor found himself reading up on bitcoin. He learned as much about crypto as fast as he could. Saylor said he pored over essays by “bitcoin luminaries,” listened to Nathaniel Whittemore’s and Anthony Pompliano’s crypto podcasts, scoured the internet for Peter Schiff’s bitcoin debates

LOL

14

varikonniemi 1 week ago

if you listen to his desperate arguments you are bound to become bullish

5

BlandTomato redditor for 2 months 1 week ago

“We just had the awful realization that we were sitting on top of a $500 million ice cube that’s melting,” Saylor said. MicroStrategy has settled on bitcoin as the treasury alternative.

“This is not a speculation, nor is it a hedge,” said Saylor. “This was a deliberate corporate strategy to adopt a bitcoin standard.”

Super bullish

81

Euphoric-Threads 1 week ago

Damn!

3

5liveR 1 week ago

I like the 'cube melting' metaphor Gonna try to use it next time I get into a discussion with my normie nevercoiners friends

20

Miffers 1 week ago

The most I ever bet was $100 on the Superbowl for the Chargers

6

AllinTeslaCalls redditor for 4 weeks 1 week ago

That could make him the richest man in the world in 10 years

35

Miffers 1 week ago

Is it his money or the investors?

1

user_name_checks_out 1 week ago

The company owns the bitcoin, and the shareholders own the company.

7

cryptening 1 week ago

blackrock owns 15% and 10% is owned by vanguard It's pretty much completely institutionally owned which makes this news even more bullish.

5

jcliff_btc 1 week ago

presumably as founder and CEO he has a large amount of shares of the stock

5

akajmj 1 week ago

He owns 70% of the company, directly and indirectly through his 100% ownership of Alcantara LLC.

2

simplelifestyle 1 week ago

4th richest, after Satoshi and the Winklevii

25

NervousGuidance 1 week ago

> Winklevii Have they merged?

11

BigGaynk 1 week ago

You are ot authorized to know.

3

tofuspider 1 week ago

only if you put on your 3d glasses

22

TurongaFry3000 redditor for 2 months 1 week ago

It's Bitcoin. Duh.

8

6 7

stake_pool Redditor for 3 months 1 week ago

Well look here, announced today, https://blog.kraken.com/post/6241/kraken-wyoming-first-digital-asset-bank/

Things are changing (moon)bois...

5

ZmasterFlash69 Redditor for 5 months 1 week ago

The new Prime Minister of Japan chose a Ripple Board Member as his Economic Advisor 🤑 https://u.today/japans-new-prime-minister-chooses-ripple-board-member-as-his-economic-advisor

8

stake_pool Redditor for 3 months 1 week ago

Oh yeah, now this is FIRE!!! Coming years are gonna be great! Great catch, thanks for the link!

4

ZmasterFlash69 Redditor for 5 months 1 week ago

The first draft said (in the second bullet point), “This will streamline compliance, making it easy for state-licenses money transmitters like RIPPLE and Coinbase to work across multiple states...” they took Ripple out 🤑

This is what we need to see for XRP adoption!!!

26

Jake2three 1 ~ 2 years account age. 80 - 150 comment karma. 6 days ago

Excellent find! This is why I reddit

1

ZmasterFlash69 Redditor for 5 months 1 week ago

Can’t say for sure why they removed Ripple? Christine LaGarde mentioned “the Ripple instrument” (XRP)... https://twitter.com/xrp_hodl_/status/1276434874086428673?s=21

4

seppadai 9 ~ 10 years account age. 300 - 400 comment karma. 1 week ago

She said "repo instrument".

1

ZmasterFlash69 Redditor for 5 months 1 week ago

Repo instrument makes no sense in the context of her talk. Get a q-Tip and listen again 😂

1

Ceenoh 1 week ago

I don’t hear ripple either 😕 for me it sounds also like repo

0

ZmasterFlash69 Redditor for 5 months 6 days ago

It’s okay, if you listen to the entire video clip, it’s clear it’s about Ripple and cross border payments and has nothing to do with overnight trading (Repo) between banks for liquidity

0

KryptoQuasar 2 ~ 3 years account age. 150 - 250 comment karma. 1 week ago

>https://twitter.com/xrp\_hodl\_/status/1276434874086428673?s=21 It's the accent that deceives. But for sure, she said Ripple.

6

Chazzer9 1 week ago

I noticed they revised it as well xD. Don't want the herd to jump in too soon.

6

Tek_Analyst 6 days ago

Is there a legitimate reason behind why

1

Druddenjemad 1 week ago

lol they removed Ripple? Why?

1

j8jweb 1 week ago

Perhaps because of ongoing / as-yet-undecided claims against Ripple.

0

onetimeonly11elf 1 week ago

bias  " Paddy Baker is a London-based cryptocurrency reporter. He was previously senior journalist at Crypto Briefing. Paddy holds positions in BTC and ETH, as well as smaller amounts of LTC, ZIL, NEO, BNB and BSV. "

7

BitcoinIsSimple 1 week ago

Good for strike?

2

nice2yz 1 week ago

Strike?

1

BitcoinIsSimple 1 week ago

An different kind of bitcoin app that is pretty cool but not available everywhere yet due to navigating regulation

1

areddituser46 Platinum | QC: CC 149 | MiningSubs 15 1 week ago

Compliance and regulation, in my opinion, will be essential in bolstering future adoption as it makes people less cared of crypto.

4

BoyScout22 Silver | QC: ETH 20 | TraderSubs 15 1 week ago

>Compliance and regulation, in my opinion, will be essential in bolstering future adoption as it makes people less cared of crypto. if you're the type of person that obeys the state at every turn, you probably shouldn't be in crypto.

1

Satora12 1 week ago

Wow, this is great news. They talk about releasing news on Thursday (so today?), any ideas when this might take place?

4

xrp_reddit_guy Tin 1 week ago

Tuesday *

4

Satora12 1 week ago

Sorry, you are right.

1

Antana18 Silver | QC: CC 116, ETH 40, XRP 16 | NEO 202 | Tr 1 week ago

The framework will include 48 US states, further information to be released today.

8

thats_so_over Silver | QC: CC 138 | NANO 43 | r/Politics 318 1 week ago

Cool. When it happens someone link it to me in a reply please:) I promise to upvote!

6

1 4

Kraken-Christian Kraken Support - official 1 week ago

We’re pleased to announce Jeremy Welch, co-founder of the popular Casa wallet service, is joining Kraken as our newest VP of Product.

In addition to his expertise as a cryptocurrency entrepreneur, Jeremy brings to Kraken a decade of experience leading product development at both startups and tech giants like Google. In his new role, he will be tasked with making it easier than ever for clients to buy and sell crypto assets with Kraken.

This will include launching strategic improvements across Kraken’s product suite and leading the charge on new features to improve our existing user experience.

Jeremy will also continue to serve as an advisor to Casa as it seeks to grow its non-custodial wallet offering, praised by users for enabling them to safely and securely store Bitcoin without the need for a custodian or exchange.

To mark the occasion, we sat down with Jeremy to learn about his new position and to get his perspective on the industry’s past, present and future.

Kraken: Welcome to the team Jeremy! What makes you most excited about leading the product experience here at Kraken?

Jeremy: I’m most excited about building a better future with such a talented team. It’s an incredible honor to learn from and work with Jesse and the other Krakenites around the globe.

Kraken is the quiet juggernaut in the cryptocurrency world. We have a strong security stance and a culture focused on solving real problems for our large global customer base (we’re not just reinventing Wall Street on the blockchain).

Despite already being a customer, it was honestly a surprise to see the breadth of initiatives Kraken is quietly building globally.

There are very few teams that understand the real implications of Bitcoin and other new decentralized technologies. There are even fewer teams out there that have both the resources and the courage to invest in the big technology breakthroughs that are now starting to emerge. I feel very lucky to be working with a team that is aggressively pushing this world forward.

Your prior position was as a co-founder at Casa, a non-custodial wallet service. Why make the jump to a leading global exchange?

I spent almost four years building Casa before stepping away in January to focus on a family health issue. It was an incredibly tough decision to make, but I knew that my family needed my focused attention, and that I wouldn’t be an effective CEO while that was the case.
After several months off, I started thinking about what would come next. It wasn’t just a question of the type of product or industry.

My search for a new role was guided by three priorities: 1) Working with great people 2) Finding a culture focused on building a better future and 3) Flexibility to focus on family.
Those seem like straightforward requirements – but most companies out there offer a mixed bag when it comes to work impact, culture, location, etc. You might get to work on something important and new, but location flexibility or pay might be low.

Kraken is a rare company – investing heavily in its teams, working on some of the most impactful technologies in the world and also enabling teams to work anywhere and anytime.
Working at an exchange is extremely fast-paced, and we are still in the early stages of the cryptocurrency revolution. There’s so much to build. But within Kraken’s great team culture and work environment, I’ve found the pace of work to be strongly sustainable.

The Kraken team has made it very easy for me to get things done while also finding time for family. This company is just phenomenal and I feel very fortunate to work here.

Tell us a bit about your experiences as a cryptocurrency user. What challenges did you encounter and how will this inform your strategy for your new role?

Using cryptocurrencies, and more broadly any kind of encryption or decentralized computing technology, is still too complicated. When we started Casa, it was out of a personal need and also out of concern for friends and family. I knew people who were attacked, who lost funds, and I saw centralized services fail directly.We made it easy for anyone to manage their funds directly with the best possible security using a carefully designed multi-signature personal key system. Today, it’s super easy-to-setup and easy-to-use with simple apps and 24/7 client service.

At Kraken, I plan to use the same approach to improve overall user experience, but at an even larger scale. Exchanges are getting more complicated, not less. Increased scale, new security risks, new fintech experiences, new regulatory frameworks and new layer 1 and layer 2 technology improvements are all converging at the same time.

If that wasn’t enough, something tells me that we’re about to see a whole new wave of customers coming into the market. For this group especially, I want to make their first experience a lasting one.

Given your past experience, what do you see as the role for cryptocurrency exchanges in the customer journey? What trends do you think will most shape the sector in the next decade?

Cryptocurrency is no longer a niche industry. More than just wider awareness by the financial industry and by consumers, the bigger sign is the new technologies like Microsoft’s ION project and Facebook’s Libra project. The future of fintech, consumer apps, and much much more will all be built on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies.

And timing is fitting. The Internet needs a new business model. The Internet also needs an updated and more resilient architecture. I think Bitcoin could be foundational for both of those, and I think the exchange plays a fundamental role in that foundation.

Money isn’t just about taking and paying debt. It’s an information system. With cryptocurrencies we will see many more unexpected use cases emerge.

For all these use cases to work, exchanges must work flawlessly and at massive scale. It’s both an exciting and a daunting future we are heading towards.

What do you hope to achieve in your new role?

Right now, we’re focused on making many improvements to the core exchange experience, but there are also many new product areas we are investing in that I think will completely take people by surprise. I’m excited to be contributing to both, and to continue to build a great team.

Kraken started as one of the first exchanges, and its strong security stance has now enabled it to scale into one of the largest globally. But we are still just getting started. We are working to bring better financial and data access to billions globally.

Please reach out if you want to help us build a better future! You can review our jobs page. We are hiring across Product Management, Engineering Design, Product Marketing, Growth, support and much more.

Can’t wait to share more of what we’re working on soon!

Once again, welcome Jeremy!
– The Kraken Team

6

7 5

bitdoggy 1 week ago

If we can't fix the peg, someone else will.

2

Khrimz000 1 week ago

Im in shock at how its blown up so big....and out of nowhere.

2

Savage_X 1 week ago

How do they prevent the system from being under collateralized and perform liquidations? How is the peg maintained? Do they have a way to unwind the system if it becomes under collateralized? It's a very interesting project, bit I feel like there are major things that have not been explained yet

5

HodlDwon 1 week ago

This is a misunderstanding of the credit system. It is not hard-pegged to any value, but should in theory be stable-ish. If it scales to a billion or two, it will become more stable as liquidity increases and psychological value from thousands of actors choose to make it stable. Lastly there don't really need to be liquidations as you just get a sort of impermanent loss on your collateral as the price between you collateral and the virtual token move in the AMM pool. It's like a soft and/or continuous-liquidation (from my understanding).

3

capitalol 1 week ago

> but should in theory be stable-ish This is the crucial point. If it's volatility for X% is unacceptable then Maker still has a significant advantage and this reduced volatility could serve as maker's moat.

2

Savage_X 1 week ago

If there is no liquidation, then the system can become under collateralized. Stable coin would no longer be worth $1 and faith would be lost in the system.

3

HodlDwon 1 week ago

No... you just can't exit with as much as you started with... The article states you will have sUSD+StableCredit if the price moves against you. I am not clear yet if they rely on the chainlink price feed or the AMM to naturally arbitrage to figure that out.

2

jernejml 1 week ago

If WHOLE crypto market drops quickly?

2

Savage_X 1 week ago

If you take credit against your deposit, then you have to have some system to make sure the collateral is still good.

1

lessfear 1 week ago

Would love to open a discussion for MKR holders on Andre Cronje's new StableCredit protocol. It seems to be a direct competitor to CDP's and Maker's Dai.

More layman explanations:

DC Investors explanation

Lisa Tan's explanation

7

bitking74 1 week ago

What's preventing Aave to release a stable token

1

Jiecut 1 week ago

It's a bit closer to synthetix than Maker. It's synthetix exchange + sUSD minting with any collateral type not just SNX.

6

mariouy1986 1 week ago

It has yet to be battle tested. Innovation is great but they are different concepts, one has risk analysis, oracle implementations, smart contracts domain teams and is looking into RWA to scale up and bring solutions to real world problems and the other one leaves that up to code and seems to be focused on absorbing any crypto assets regardless of the risk based upon incentives. One you have direct access to your locked collateral while in the other one you may likely have but you may not (as per DC comments) One is integrated in dex and cex and the other one seems to be traded within the system. I haven’t analyzed it deeply though, we will see how it integrates to the defi ecosystem, anyhow yearn & andre are doing an incredible job which lifts all the defi ecosystem, liquidity is welcome.

4

jbonzerous 1 week ago

I have been a long time mkr holder. It seems like these other protocols are eating our lunch. Stable credit will make YFI scale infinitely so it’s no longer capital capped. It’s in the works that it will be able to deploy anything on uniswap as collateral. MKR is starting to seem like maybe not the best long term bet here. Anything that I’m missing on our roadmap that would suggest otherwise. I just don’t see how YFI and the stable credit doesn’t turn out to be an absolute monster swallowing these other protocols whole. Link below to the Bankless description with Andre himself. https://youtu.be/SkTuMVBLBNQ

13

HodlDwon 1 week ago

I sold all my MKR (at my peak I had over 2000 MKR) and I very sparingly hold Dai nowadays. Rune and the Foundation lost the plot years ago... I didn't want it to go down like this, but the writing has been on the wall for a while, MakerDAO has no moat. They had first mover and have squandered it. I used to recommend MKR as a buy, I now recommend people that hold it to sell.

3

mariouy1986 1 week ago

Hi, have you seen the developments being performed within maker? To name just a few: - We are close to actually delivering real world value solutions - Dai has 4x in 2020 - MCD has now 11 different collaterals I welcome you to check out the forum, specially since you’ve been from the beginning it could give a valuable insight

7

HodlDwon 1 week ago

I gave all my insights long ago and was ignored every single time. It's no longer worth my effort or time. I just occasionally see things from here in my reddit feed every now and then. Stable Credit and YFI will move fast and *experiment*, something MakerDAO has never seemed to be capable of. MakerDAO is gonna get its lunch eaten and I never would have wished for that and still don't, but it's already lost. It's so bad now, I don't even see a pivot it could even make to come back from the brink.

5

HodlDwon 1 week ago

And I should add, MakerDAO is suffering from "brain drain" now. Which is to say, the people or opinions you needed to change Maker from the inside have left the Maker-nation and moved to other projects/dApps/Communities. What you are left with is people that all agree that you're on the right path, even as you walk into a maw of irrelevance.

3

fofinsky 1 week ago

"Maw of irrelevance". How poetic.

2

mariouy1986 1 week ago

We can agree to disagree, however if you change your mind drop by the forum, some interesting conversations are going on. Particularly I’m looking forward for real world assets & yield farming assets that can drive minting up while significant revenue is collected to expand the different domain teams

2

jbonzerous 1 week ago

I need to stop by the mkr chat it’s been awhile. What are they doing with real world assets and yield farming? I would say this...crypto is a flavor of the month thing a lot of times. Just a few days ago Twitter was clamoring over the tri force of ETH MKR and YFI. I do have concerns though that Maker is getting out paced and seems to be standing on the sideline.

3

mariouy1986 1 week ago

Real world assets are getting traction from the community (check [signal request to determine if RWA should be considered a priority](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/signal-request-should-real-world-asset-collateral-onboarding-be-prioritised-in-the-short-term/4075)), there are already collateral applications from trade finance to royalties passing through real state (just two days ago there was an application for consignment inventory finance) it does not have the same mechanisms in order to onboard therefore the analysis is far deeper. There are biweekly collateral calls presented from different collateral applications, the next one involves real world assets, click [here](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/agenda-discussion-collateral-onboarding-call-8-wednesday-september-16-17-00-utc/4062)). As per yield tokens last week primoz did an extensive analysis [here](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/research-ctokens-as-collateral/3979) and you see the applications for collateral pending [here](https://forum.makerdao.com/t/collateral-status-index/2231).

4

ambidextrous12 1 week ago

What does this mean for Maker? Would it become obsolete?

1

TaxExempt 1 week ago

Maker should remain the gold standard for a secure fully decentralized stable coin.

1

bitking74 1 week ago

Hope their oracles won't fail

1

ironmagnesiumzinc 1 week ago

Can someone eli5?

1

economicsdesign 1 week ago

ELI5 from this comment on r/makerdao > https://www.reddit.com/r/MakerDAO/comments/irh5g8/thoughts_on_yearns_stablecredit_protocol/g4ycbuy/ Copy-pasting the comment here: Would love to open a discussion for MKR holders on Andre Cronje's new StableCredit protocol. It seems to be a direct competitor to CDP's and Maker's Dai. More layman explanations: [DC Investors explanation](https://www.reddit.com/r/ethfinance/comments/ipxtn2/daily_general_discussion_september_10_2020/g4qgqsu/?context=3&utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=MakerDAO&utm_content=t1_g4ycbuy) [Lisa Tan's explanation](https://twitter.com/lisajytan/status/1304584889237270528)

2

ethiossaga 1 week ago

in short: multi collateral dai + uniswap It will let you collateralize any(?) token and create StableCredit which can be used in a uniswap like amm to borrow any other token

3

pr0nh0li0 1 week ago

You can provide any asset and create tokenized credit called StableCredit USD (can also support EUR, JPY, etc).

Excited about this aspect. Not enough stable assets pegged to assets beyond USD yet. What are the Oracles being used here? Chainlink?

Also how about StableCredits for XAU/precious metals? Or are they not stable enough for StableCredit?

The AMM defines the premiums at which you borrow/repay assets.

Any models yet that define how those premiums are distributed? Presumably lion share to LPs, small share to the Treasury?

7

pr0nh0li0 1 week ago

Just to add, it occurs to me that bootstrapping liquidity/scaling for this might be one of the first good reasons to mint a new limited supply of YFI. Given current prices emission could still be quite low to bring in a lot of new hype behind this product.

3

CryptoOGkauai mod 1 week ago

Minting more YFI probably isn’t going to happen. All of the early YIP proposals and suggestions related to this was shut down, and one of them was about minting 30K over the course of 10 years IIRC. When we were at about $10K - the time I first bought in - There was also a suggestion that never really gained traction that we’d mint more if YFI exceeded BTC unit costs for 12 days. That didn’t happen either. It could happen in the future, but it doesn’t seem likely anytime soon. It could

2

pr0nh0li0 1 week ago

>All of the early YIP proposals and suggestions related to this was shut down YIP-30 very nearly passed though. It wasnt until [Andrew Kang rallied against it](https://twitter.com/Rewkang/status/1289688600729096192?s=19) that the momentum really flipped (with just 3 hours remaining). It definitely had a fair bit of traction until that point. You could be right and maybe the meme of 30k has gotten too strong to be broken by the community. But if the right stakeholders made a compelling argument for it again to build liquidity for this or other new products, I could definitely see happening. Maybe even soon given how fast the team moves. I think circumstance will matter more than timing.

2

CryptoOGkauai mod 1 week ago

Good points, but then again, late rallies are also a part of any democracy in action. That or evidence of whales rallying together if we're being honest. Times change. One could argue it wasn't fully a Fair Launch because what about the next generation? Just because they weren't born, should we forget about them and take all the value for ourselves? Even BTC has a distribution schedule that mints BTC for future generations. I wouldn't rule out such a change as a possibility. A YIP, with enough support, could change the supply amount in the near or distant future (should the project ultimately succeed).

2

Over-analyser 1 week ago

Why mint more YFI? I thought you could deposit anything as collateral. If we need to add some liquidity we could use other methods that avoid dilution.

3

pr0nh0li0 1 week ago

One of the big criticisms of Maker DAO (and other decentralized stable coin designs) is that it can't scale. I'd be interested in seeing this model push that to the test, and one way we can drive liquidity to try and do that quickly is mint a small amount of YFI for LPs. Just a thought--certainly might not be neccessary. But with other lending and stablecoin protocols providing incentives for liquidity I do also wonder why users would be interested in using this over other options. Maker's APR is very very low and Compound's is actually negative after COMP farming. How does this model compete with that at launch?

2

Over-analyser 1 week ago

I honestly don't know . My mental map is AMMs like uniswap need liquidity providers who can suffer impermanent losses where they withdraw a different ratio of pool tokens compared to what they deposited. On the other hand Comp and Aave the liquidity providers deposit to a pool and get the same token back (just slightly more of it). I think that this protocol will allow you to deposit anything (possibly white listed tokens with oracle's?) And borrow anything or mint the stable coins. If deposits attract sufficient yield I don't think we will see a lack of liquidity. After all the yETH vault attracted lots of liquidity when the "only thing" it did was automate protocols in place. But I'll. Need to see what others make it the implemented code because I don't think I fully understand it yet.

2

8 2 4

orders1-65 3 weeks ago

Seems like a very good idea. Their primary arguments are "it isn't technically well defined" (bills don't often specify hundreds of functional and non functional tech requirements, "doctors aren't sure if it's okay to go out if you're not sick" (the best argument but that's far more general a problem) and "poor people don't have smartphones" (I'm not sure about the stats on this, but children in sub saharan Africa have smartphones).

1

ruizscar 3 weeks ago

My primary argument is "this is dystopian bullshit which will lead to more and more reasons why certain people cannot access certain spaces, not to mention a drive towards microchips that don't run out of battery"

2

LordBrandon 4 weeks ago

For a second I thought I was in r/technology

0

the_river_nihil 4 weeks ago

Good god, on top of everything else (and there’s a lot of “everything else”) we can’t even be sure that the presence of currently known antibodies guarantees that a person is no longer contagious. No matter how convenient (which it isn’t), or legal (which it isn’t), or well-executed & strictly enforced this is (which it won’t be) the data is simply not reliable enough to make this assertion at this time.

16

fr0ntsight 4 weeks ago

Jesus Christ. California is out of control

0

BashfulDaschund 4 weeks ago

You get what you vote for. Good luck with that dystopian mess.

0

ConcussionsOfAParot 4 weeks ago

Right? Just have a look at how terrible the entire country is as well. We screwed up by keeping the working people out of politics

5

beef-o-lipso 4 weeks ago

Sniff, sniff. I bet there's a money trail that leads to sponsors or sponsors files that are into speculative tech stocks relying on finding a purpose for blockchain.

Stupidist thing I've heard on a while. Well, Stupidist thing today. OK, the last hour because I just stopped reading the national news.

20

marathon2422 4 weeks ago

You need phones that do not track you. -: Rob Braxman :- on YouTube and LBRY

0

usernamechexin 4 weeks ago

So what is the solution? Pray do tell

0

ValorPhoenix 4 weeks ago

Keeping up epidemic measures. Wear a mask and don't gather people indoors for long periods of time. The weakest link of this is the testing part. With a school that is taking attendance, they would have to test everyone weekly to have some measure of confidence that there aren't asymptomatic spreaders present. This bill is just a privacy nightmare that does nothing useful other than as a thought exercise on how to not do it in a stupid way.

19

ben7337 4 weeks ago

So wear masks indefinitely even after a vaccine comes out and keep all indoor activities and dining closed on that same indefinite timeline? No thank you

0

420everytime 4 weeks ago

Of course you need to wear a mask after the vaccine comes out. It’s not like everyone is going to get vaccinated the day it comes out

1

ben7337 4 weeks ago

When is enough people being vaccinated to remove masks and open indoor dining? Why can't someone who was vaccinated count the vaccine as equivalent to a mask and be reducing their risk of spreading the disease that way?

1

420everytime 4 weeks ago

We don’t know how many people is enough for herd immunity. That biological question is super hard to answer. Yes you still need to wear a mask after getting the vaccine because the vaccine won’t be 100% effective, just effective enough. The FDA has a minimum effectiveness requirement of the vaccine at 50%, so even after getting it, it’s basically a coin flip if you are actually immune from getting/spreading covid

1

ben7337 4 weeks ago

So we wear masks for the rest of our lives?

1

420everytime 4 weeks ago

No, but realistically until the end of 2021

1

xevizero 4 weeks ago

No, wear masks until a vaccine comes out, then back to normal, hopefully without forgetting how we got out of this mess for next time

5

ben7337 4 weeks ago

Oh I thought that's what immunity passports were, you'd show it to prove you were immunized and don't need a mask and such. Clearly I misunderstood and it's just about people who tested clean recently? That idea sounds dumb af.

0

xevizero 4 weeks ago

Yeah but it wouldn't have worked like you thought anyway. We don't have any proof that people who were sick can't get the virus anymore, in fact we have proof of one guy who 100% had it and 100% has been infected again, 4 months later. An immunity passport would give 0 guarantees, because herd immunity seems impossible with this virus. Our only hope is a vaccine, and then probably a new vaccine every year for years or decades until it's totally eradicated (it will take more time if people don't get vaccinated).

3

teh_maxh 4 weeks ago

> Our only hope is a vaccine If reinfection is possible, why do we think a vaccine will work?

1

xevizero 3 weeks ago

A) we'll need a new vaccine every year for different strands of the virus (this could have been avoided if the spread had been contained in the first place, but due to the huge spread now the virus has mutated and it'll probably become endemic for a few years) B) vaccines not always just contained an inactivated version of the virus..sometimes they are made to trigger longer term responses that are slightly different from the immunity obtained from simply catching the flu yourself. I'd like to be corrected on this one, I'm no medic, but this is what I understood from reading around on the issue..it's complicated stuff and I guess we just need to trust experts on this one. Still, getting vaccinated every 6 months would still be better than living in panic and in a few years it would make the disease completely disappear.

1

3 3

SantiagoCK redditor for a day 2 weeks ago

If anyone was wondering why there were mempool problems in 2017 that seemed like this, similar attacks popular around that time.

4

DesignerAccount 2 weeks ago

2017 were spam attacks. There was a group of people who stood to profit humongously from bitcoin struggling too much, possibly to the point of breaking, and pushing big blocks fork as the "real bitcoin". One way to achieve that was to fill the mempool with transactions in an attempt to slow down legit ones. It was a sustained attack for quite some time, and around mid November 2017 it was further helped with bitcoin dumping and hash power attack. As they say, the rest is history. I'm personally VERY happy the attackers got savagely rekt, one by one, at tremendous financial cost. They had no reputation to begin with, and never cared about anything but profits. So huge losses was the perfect way to hurt them.

5

RedditTooAddictive 1 week ago

I'll just add that in the meantime this group, which had a significant mining % of the network, was mining empty blocks in addition, which reinforced the spam effect since many blocks weren't clearing the mempool. Also, it was about pushing for big blocks, but also about avoiding segwit at all cost, which would see them lose their Antbleed mining advantage IIRC

3

atrueretard 2 weeks ago

The vulnerability was discovered on Friday, June 22nd, 2018

price didn't really move during these dates. how nice of them not to dump and then tell the public.

7

pinhead26 2 weeks ago

That's not how "responsible disclosure" works :-) We are security engineers who are dedicated to Bitcoin, not villains.

36

n8dahwgg 2 weeks ago

You guys are saints. Thank you for what you do

6

pinhead26 2 weeks ago

Coindesk report: https://www.coindesk.com/high-severity-bug-in-bitcoin-software-revealed-2-years-after-fix

Summary: an attacker sends an INV message to a victim node with 49,999 hashes of transactions that don't exist. The victim node stores all those hashes in memory and waits for the TXs to arrive (they never do). The process can be repeated quickly until the victim node is out of memory.

For those who don't know, bcoin is an alternative implementation of Bitcoin for nodejs. It's not altcoin, it's a bitcoin fullnode, SPV node, and bip44 wallet library written in JavaScript.

16

BubblegumTitanium 1 week ago

I’d like to add that bcoin is used in many wallets (including my personal favorite BlueWallet). So it’s not some random library that nobody cares about or takes care of.

2

4 2

TimbukNine 11 months ago

An outstanding article providing deep insight into the upcoming market conditions and the likely fate of the Ethereum killers. Definitely worth your time to read.

One obvious conclusion, if Ethereum 2.0 is successful then the Ethereum killers are in for a very bad time. There are many others to discover in the article.

4

Ethical-trade Hawaii 2027 11 months ago

>One obvious conclusion, if Ethereum 2.0 is successful then the Ethereum killers are in for a very bad time. Also means that we should keep our eyes open for attempts at sabotaging the project

4

[deleted] 11 months ago

Yeah I think if Ethereum ends up dominating, other projects would do well to connect to Ethereum in some way or another. Instead of the entire Ethereum Killer narrative. Overall, agreed this was an outstanding article.

4

yesono 11 months ago

TL;DR

“ In the coming quarters, a high density of “Ethereum Killers” (EKs) plan to launch their mainnets, and in so doing, release their assets to the public crypto markets. The transition of price discovery from the private to public markets will be an important one to watch and understand, especially considering many EKs carry billion-dollar anticipated launch values.

To begin, I expect most of the EKs to face extreme downward pressure from their attempted listing prices. Two recent bellwethers for this pattern have been Algorand’s ALGO and Hashgraph’s HBAR (click the links to see price action). I write this with zero schadenfreude as the ramifications impact Placeholder and many of our entrepreneur and investor friends in the industry.”

3

sdmikecfc 11 months ago

Large unlocks with no one buying except a few speculators and market makers. News and hype are gone in this market. Most blockchains spend the first year building manuals, resources and middle-ware just to get it functioning at the level of it's market competitors. They may land a big client or two who will purchase coins.... once... which will hold them over for all of the development phase and all of the initial dapp launch phase. They won't bring buying pressure... that won't come for years.

1

aesthetik_ 11 months ago

Great article, thanks.

2

MemeyCurmudgeon Flippant Flippener 11 months ago

I wish I could upvote this twice. Berry Goob.

2

3 10

Michael Goldstein - @bitstein

RT @stephanlivera: @pierre_rochard @josephskewes "Odunjo makes two or three transfers a month of around 0.5-0.7 bitcoin ($5,900-$8,300) each, to suppliers in Shanghai and Zhangzhou." https://t.co/by94i0qJQX?

2 9

Andrea O'Sullivan - @anjiecast

RT @ReutersBiz: WATCH: In Nigeria, small #cryptocurrency transfers totaled up to $56 million in June, nearly 50% more than a year before. Read more https://t.co/hsYPd34shp via @alexisak https://t.co/eJNrbUGzVp

45 93

Leigh Cuen - @La__Cuen

RT @soonaorlater: Though saying practical usage of bitcoin has failed elsewhere is inaccurate, great to see Reuters covering the quiet bitcoin boom in Africa. https://t.co/44VMtsgfuw

3 22

Paul Sztorc - @Truthcoin

RT @jp_koning: On Nigerian bitcoin usage: https://t.co/7VlMvqMPeu Key quote: “I don’t need anyone in the banks, I don’t need a person to use the back door to get dollars.” Foreign exchange is rationed in Nigeria. (42 items are banned from accessing forex!) Bitcoin offers importers a way out. https://t.co/ZGtTXBXAM6

10 11

Wong Joon Ian - @joonian

RT @Reuters: How #bitcoin met the real world in Africa: Crypto transfers have soared over the last year on the continent, according to U.S. blockchain research firm Chainalysis, @alexisak has more https://t.co/RbgAPprbla https://t.co/RpVX55L80r

32 61

Soona - @soonaorlater

Though saying practical usage of bitcoin has failed elsewhere is inaccurate, great to see Reuters covering the quiet bitcoin boom in Africa. https://t.co/44VMtsgfuw

0 3

Erik Voorhees - @ErikVoorhees

RT @ReutersBiz: In Africa, bitcoin - the original and biggest cryptocurrency - is finding the practical use that it has largely failed to elsewhere https://t.co/EywE8Jqjll by @alexisak @tomwilson1983 https://t.co/9U2Eeh1Sfl

28 72

Neeraj K. Agrawal - @NeerajKA

RT @alexisak: Why a boom in Africa? Young, tech-savvy populations that have adapted quickly to bitcoin, weaker local currencies that make it harder to get dollars for global trade, and a desire to cut the fees/bureacracy required for money transfers. https://t.co/W7bSU2A9EH

3 14

Aaron van Wirdum - @AaronvanW

RT @alexisak: Why a boom in Africa? Young, tech-savvy populations that have adapted quickly to bitcoin, weaker local currencies that make it harder to get dollars for global trade, and a desire to cut the fees/bureacracy required for money transfers. https://t.co/W7bSU2A9EH

3 13

Barry Silbert - @barrysilbert

RT @Reuters: A quiet bitcoin boom in Africa is being driven by payments from small businesses as well as remittances sent home from migrant workers https://t.co/fncEu7wiUr by @alexisak @tomwilson1983 https://t.co/dzpov6nvWh

29 65

1 8

25 4

HateIsAnArt 1 week ago

I love when people on this website explain to me how America is the most capitalist country to ever exist. What a load of bullshit.

1

squeakybeak 1 week ago

That sounds a bit socialist.

2

Spacesider 1 week ago

I cannot see anything possibly going wrong with this

1

faran_shahid 1 week ago

I think it's not a question of whether the fed has it in control or not. The difference lies in the attitude towards financial markets of Jay Powell and Janet Yellem. Though its true that Jay Powell is faced with a unique circumstance of the pandemic but they are trying too hard to prevent a crises or prevent recession rather than allowing the economic cycle to run its course and taper it. There is a difference in tapering and prevention. Historically, preventive measures have led to an exacerbation of a crises in the long run. The economic cycle is supposed to run its natural course.

3

NC4Life078 2 weeks ago

Huh... glad I’m getting granite countertops in the next two weeks

1

QuantumSpecter 2 weeks ago

Could someone ELI5? What are the consequences of the fed owning US mortgages? Does it act like a loan? Is whats happening similar to the mortgage debt crisis? Thank you

2

RuffianGhostHorse OurBeatingHeart 2 weeks ago

I'd have thought it'd be more towards forty.

B A S T A R D S.

2

FarrisAT 2 weeks ago

We are becoming more and more Chinese state capitalist by the day.

4

Flower_Overwhelming 2 weeks ago

Yup. This is in line with State Capitalism as the financial institutions profiting financially from this arrangement get to decide where to re-invest rather than the State; such as in State Socialism.

1

Clownshow_rebirthed 2 weeks ago

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

socialize those losses baby, yes american capitalism. definitely a free market problem.

1

Mycateatsmoney 2 weeks ago

The federal reserve is a private entity despite the name and despite how they control the economy.
The idea of the fed was fought long and hard by true patriots of our country until eventually the right votes and politicians were purchased and the fed was created in 1913.
The fed influences the US dollar and US monetary system by providing a centralized command center for banks that unilaterally have huge impact on the overall economy, eg. Interest rates, purchase or offering of bonds, etc.
The feds influence on the US economy has grown over the decades and the power it has continues to grow as stock investors say “dont fight the fed”, etc.

Google a little bit to get to know the federal reserve, despite what you are told or led to believe. Eg. Is a governmental part of the system, owned by noone, answers to noone, has no influence in the market, is here to help people not banks, etc. is a good google, trust me.

6

wmrossphoto 2 weeks ago

Yup, and we had US Treasury dollars for a hot second in the early 60’s before Kennedy was assassinated and then the US had to go back to being tied to the Federal Reserve.

2

Goosehasthreelegs 2 weeks ago

You’ll be shocked at the number of school loans then!

The US runs only to make money off of its citizens.

That’s Capitalism, baby. finger guns

2

DVORAK1979 2 weeks ago

they have to make up for tax cuts somehow

1

CustomAlpha 2 weeks ago

Socialized housing program! Less likely to collapse economies this way.

1

Mycateatsmoney 2 weeks ago

I smell a mortgage crash coming soon to a real estate market near you.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

1

thedebtreliefco 2 weeks ago

This is beyond crazy! Imagine how different the Great Recession would have been if the FED acted with the same velocity back then as they are now. Would have been a completely different ballgame.

6

dannyboy1901 2 weeks ago

Just bring interest rates to negative and the have nots will benefit, but the haves will never allow that

1

AutoModerator 2 weeks ago

Your submission The Fed Now Owns Nearly One Third of All US Mortgages was automatically removed because thestreet.com is not on our approved domains list. r/politics has a number of conditions that domains must adhere to in order to be approved as an acceptable source. Domains must:

Be notable, as defined by our domain notability guidelines. Notable domains will consist of news organizations, research organizations, political advocacy groups, governmental agencies / bodies, and political parties.
Contain articles, videos or sound-clips relevant to current US politics
Contain original content that has not been stolen or rehosted from another source.
Be accessible at least once without paying for a subscription or completing a survey.

If you believe that you have a domain that is eligible for our approved domains list, please use the link at the end of this message to submit it to us. However please note that if you submit spam or rule breaking content to us via the form, we will match the domain against this submission and may take action against your account. If you submit a spam domain via the form, your account may be reported to the site administrators. To submit a domain for approval use this form and follow the instructions provided

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1

xanadumuse 2 weeks ago

BlackRock to the rescue /s.

1

whydoihavetojoin 2 weeks ago

The next housing bubble, which isn’t that far, will bring down fed.

0

alwaysZenryoku 2 weeks ago

Perfectly normal for the government to interfere with markets, that’s capitalism... /s

4

krusbarVinbar 2 weeks ago

What is the point of banks these days when it is all the FED? Banks are just a user interface for borrowing money for the FED. How about abolishing banks and just allowing direct lending from the FED.

19

jucestain 1 week ago

Ive asked myself this a lot too. And basically, I think the way things are going is essentially a transition to a nationalized banking system, with all money being basically lent from the fed, whether its digitally printed or not, but basically the amount of lending will be proportional to the amount of inflation (the key here is how inflation is measured, but thats a different story). The problem with the FED is they don't have the capacity to determine who is "credit worthy" or not, and cannot issue loans on an individual basis, so they rely on banks to issue loans. The obvious problem here is that banks no longer have any risk, so they are basically just lending to everyone at this point IMO and it's becoming a game of just how much $$ can you get. But the true reason for banks has always been to finance commerce. They served as a safe haven to store wealth (vestigial at this point) and as a means to channel wealth from the idle rich to the industrious poor (ascent of money). And they did this efficiently because defaults on loans ran the risk of a bank run or going out of business. But now the risk has vanished so I can only imagine the amount of $$ being misappropriated right now.

3

eleven8ster 1 week ago

I would guess UBI would look like a savior to the free market in this context? Credit worthiness assessment flies out the window and acts as a money spout to the people and becomes a tool in the toolbox to manage inflation? If ubi becomes too much a part of a person's income and they stop working their employer could raise pay and prices accordingly. You could also determine creditworthiness on a blockchain smart contract via decentralized identity if you were the fed. That would work. I'm just kind of thinking out loud here.

1

Coldfriction 1 week ago

Dude, this is an economics forum. Get out of here with that talk. We have been trained to worship the banking industry. It is necessary for our salvation.

0

point_of_privilege 1 week ago

That's how mortgages typically work. The bank where the mortgage is issued is just a loan originator. These loans are then sold on a secondary market to aggregators who securitize them and sell them as bonds to investors. The originating bank doesn't hold onto a loan for very long even in normal circumstances.

1

Effective-Mustard-12 2 weeks ago

Exactly. Why the fuck do banks exist. I don't interact with them AT ALL and honestly I have very little need to. They are more of a hindrance than anything.

4

l8_apex 2 weeks ago

Usury is the answer you're seeking.

6

Effective-Mustard-12 1 week ago

For sure.

2

yalogin 2 weeks ago

We are politically in a situation where the government cannot say, fuck it, we are not going to eat up the risk of the private corporations.

11

yaosio 1 week ago

Sure they can, and if the ruling class demands it then that's what the state will do.

2

DeepSlicedBacon 2 weeks ago

The great reset will happen once all the mortgages are on their books.

3

pmtiggobitties 2 weeks ago

Again?

1

oep4 2 weeks ago

I’ll just leave this here:

https://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/smccf.htm

6

DevlinTrades 2 weeks ago

I had to read this a few times over and research some terms to be able to understand it. It makes sense now why The Fed own so much of the mortgages, thank you for the resource. Now what does this mean for the future? It doesn't seem inherently bad, wouldn't this be a safe way for The Fed to generate a return from this pandemic (assuming the economy recovers and the companies they own bonds with are able to pay their debts)? Am I missing something?

1

4fingertakedown 1 week ago

It’s not terrible but we really won’t have an answer to your question about the future until... the future. I don’t think the fed is trying to generate a return in as much provide liquidity. They’re giving you cash so you can buy oil for your car so it doesn’t blow up on the highway.

1

oep4 2 weeks ago

The question to ask is what effect this policy has on the wellbeing of society. That’s the question I ask. And I can’t see any upside.

1

vagrantist 2 weeks ago

So quasi-socialism owns mortgages.

2

TotalBrownout 1 week ago

They dont own the mortgages... they own MBS, which means if the underlying mortgages default, whatever banks hold the actual deeds end up with the property and owe the money to whomever holds the MBS... instead of AIG providing insurance which caused them to go bankrupt, this time the FED/taxpayers will be left holding the bag. It will probably be a very empty bag.

1

golddot78 2 weeks ago

Fed Reserve is not government.

2

ChiefaCheng 2 weeks ago

You must not understand that the Federal Reserve is private, not government

2

vagrantist 2 weeks ago

And it pays its revenue to the us government. “The federal government sets the salaries of the board's seven governors, and it receives all the system's annual profits, after dividends on member banks' capital investments are paid, and an account surplus is maintained. In 2015, the Federal Reserve earned a net income of $100.2 billion and transferred $97.7 billion to the U.S. Treasury” “Although an instrument of the US Government, the Federal Reserve System considers itself "an independent central bank because its monetary policy decisions do not have to be approved by the President or anyone else in the executive or legislative branches of government, it does not receive funding appropriated by Congress, and the terms of the members of the board of governors span multiple presidential and congressional terms." Looks like a duck. Walks like a duck. Calls itself a turtle.

1

oblivion95 2 weeks ago

The FOMC consists of the 7 governors from the Board of Governors and the 12 Reserve Bank presidents. The President+Senate selects the 7, and private banks select the 12. So it's 37% government, from that point of view. And beyond FOMC, the Fed is governed solely by the Board of Governors, which is 100% government.

4

ChiefaCheng 2 weeks ago

Yes. Banks are private, board is gov

2

capstan_hook 2 weeks ago

"Socialism is when the government does stuff"

2

vagrantist 2 weeks ago

If you vote for a person and then pay them to make decisions about institutions that you pay for and they turn around and pay each other money you gave them. Its sure looks like socialism.

0

capstan_hook 2 weeks ago

>Its sure looks like socialism. "The more stuff the government does, the more socialister it is." —Karl Marx probably

2

vagrantist 2 weeks ago

oops my bust, Democratic Socialism.

1

yaosio 2 weeks ago

No, not that either, it's capitalism. Elections and government owned businesses existed when Karl Marx was alive, not once did he refer to those things as socialism. They are part of the capitalist system. Elections in a capitalist system are where we determine who will oppress us. I don't get how you don't know this. You talk about socialism like youl know everything about it, yet you don't know what one of the most famous socialists had to say about government, democracy, and government owned bussiness in capitalism. It would be like knowing everything there is to know about physics yet somehow not knowing what Einstein had to say about it.

2

vagrantist 2 weeks ago

Capitalism that has the government bailing out banks, supporting banks from failure (and risk) with the FDIC, installing those who adjust interest rates, subsidies for industries like corn and oil, is in no way capitalism.

0

vagrantist 2 weeks ago

nope.

1

3 2

bitcentral 2 weeks ago

Congrats to the ENS team! ENS domains are a great fit for naming oracle contracts

ENS is receiving a grant to:

Create the capability to generate immutable, censorship-resistant, and human-readable domain names for Chainlink oracle contract addresses, increasing the security of how Chainlink network addresses are accessed and displayed.

5

PseudonymousChomsky 2 weeks ago

I was just thinking about the high cost of ENS on Ethereum and what the roadmap looks like. Then BAM, I open up Reddit and see this post!!

Great work ENS team!

6

fuck_____________1 2 weeks ago

You realize that Chainlink has announced hundreds of "integrations" and "partnerships" in the last 4 years. How many actually made it to production? 2. (And they both were bribed) If you want to look into how Chainlink fraudulently announces fake partnerships to pump their token price, there's plenty of literature. [https://zeus-capital.com/news/chainlink-integrations](https://zeus-capital.com/news/chainlink-integrations) [https://zeus-capital.com/news/callisto-network-chainlink-fake-partnership](https://zeus-capital.com/news/callisto-network-chainlink-fake-partnership) [https://peakd.com/hive-126009/@vlemon/is-chainlink-an-overhyped-crypto-project-or-will-they-actually-deliver](https://peakd.com/hive-126009/@vlemon/is-chainlink-an-overhyped-crypto-project-or-will-they-actually-deliver)

6

erguamen 2 weeks ago

Actually believing Zeus FUD. The absolute state of Plebbit.

1

erguamen 2 weeks ago

You realise that you were supposed to stop fudding Chainlink when mainnet came out right?

1

brantlymillegan 2 weeks ago

ENS is receiving a grant to:

- Create the capability to generate immutable, censorship-resistant, and human-readable domain names for Chainlink oracle contract addresses, increasing the security of how Chainlink network addresses are accessed and displayed.

- Build a Layer 2 Rollup based solution for verifying DNSSEC proofs for ENS domain names on Ethereum without having to do the computation on-chain.

2

Stay up to date on all things crypto and blockchain

Select

© 2020 Token Daily

Stay up to date on all things crypto and blockchain

Select

© 2020 Token Daily

🙌 Login to Token Daily