Token Daily

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Highglee 25 mins ago

What does this mean for the South China Morning Post (SCMP)?

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trash-juice 1 h ago

Just killed the city of HK, it’s China who will loose out

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Reptilian_Brain_420 1 h ago

Never saw that coming...

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Tigris_Morte 2 hs ago

Are Pooh Bear's apologists here to tell us about how the law is just like in the US yet?

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PacoJazztorius 2 hs ago

In other words, the Republicans' definition of "freedom!"

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chattejaponaise 3 hs ago

Declare war on China. Arrest Xi Jinping and put him on trial for crimes against humanity.

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frozentomato29 2 hs ago

No one wants to fight in the massive war that would come about because of this. Do you really want WW3 but with hella nukes? Because that’s what you’re asking for. Now I’m not saying something shouldn’t be done but declaring war should be the very last option here.

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chattejaponaise 1 h ago

Only ones asking for WW3 is china. give it to them and put them back in their place. if the whole world shows aggression China might back down.

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frozentomato29 1 h ago

Or you know people can just move business from China, Sanction the fuck out of them to the point of isolation like North Korea and then just let the Chinese populace take care of the CCP. There is no need to start a full scale war with one of the worlds largest super powers that will kill millions.

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chattejaponaise 1 h ago

Im sure that’s what a lot of people said about Nazi Germany and their massive military

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logiclust 3 hs ago

funny how chinese cops have more restrictions than american pigs

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klone_free 4 hs ago

Sounds alot like the earn it act but for less of the pie

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readinreadin 4 hs ago

“ orgs based in Taiwan or oversea“?

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SE_to_NW [SE_NW] 3 hs ago

_According to the new stipulations, the head of the police force may – with the permission of the security chief – ask international political organisations and those based in Taiwan to hand over information, including data on their activities in Hong Kong, personal data, sources of income and expenditure. Any group that does not act in accordance with the demands of the authorities faces a fine of HK$100,000 and six months in jail._

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businessbaked01 4 hs ago

So have the CCP inserted their own people to make these decisions? Or did the Hong Kong government sell out?

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FacelessOnes 5 hs ago

This is so fucked.

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madhattergm 5 hs ago

Are they inching us towards global conflict or are we doing that?

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corpus_hubris 6 hs ago

This is really fucked up.

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dan0man 6 hs ago

Hong Kong is no longer Hong Kong. It is just another chinese city under Emperor Xi.

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lijjili 28 mins ago

Wumano/50 yuan here. FYI - It’s always been a Chinese city, just stolen from China during the opium wars. Finally nice to see fear in the rioters eyes.

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string_1981 59 mins ago

RIP Hong Kong

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Calguy1 6 hs ago

The u.s. government whacks off to this idea every day.

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Ravenchaser210 7 hs ago

alright it's over... rip HK

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Carrera_GT 7 hs ago

Honestly, don't police elsewhere also have these power?

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swordfish1984 1 h ago

Pls note national security in the western world means the true country, but not the ruiling party. I.e. Hong Kong ia hving a CCP (or even Mr. Xi )security law, which the intention is different than nation security in the west.

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jamar030303 5 hs ago

Not to control the internet, no.

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NovusVentus 8 hs ago

All this could have been prevented if the HK protesters had backed down after the extradition bill was withdrawn.

The protests achieved their initial goal but then expanded the goal of the protests to those very stupid five demands and made it unconditional (Five demands not one less).

So there was zero room for negotiation. And then they bet the house on foreign intervention, on Donald Trump, Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Nancy Pelosi. And I know US and some other countries will sanction China but that won't change anything in Hong Kong at least not in the protestors favor.

This maximalist approach when you had less power was just suicidal. And then use violence against mainlanders, vandalism against mainland businesses, yellow economic circle etc.

This meant there was only one thing to do. Although maybe they wanted PLA to intervene. That could have happened too.

Anyway in the end the Laam Chau people got what they wanted. This was always going to happen once you chose your actions and strategy. China couldn't have let the protesters cause chaos for even longer when there was no way to have a negotiation.

Predictable from the start. They didn't want the extradition bill and they set in motion a suicide mission (Laam Chau) with extreme demands which resulted in a bill far far tougher than the original extradition bill.

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aggro-hamtaro 2 hs ago

Good point, I wonder what would have happened if the protests had stopped earlier.

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throwaway123u 5 hs ago

> All this could have been prevented if the HK protesters had backed down after the extradition bill was withdrawn. All this could have *also* been prevented if Carrie Lam had withdrawn the bill when the protesters first asked for it, while the protests were still peaceful. She didn't, she tried to BS the protesters way too many times, the 5 demands in response are entirely reasonable after the crap she pulled.

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NovusVentus 1 h ago

Well it didn't and now NSL is the law. It was in HK protestors interests to take the win after extradition law was withdrawn, enjoy the victory lap. But that did't happen. They changed the main focus on the protests. Made hardline demands that were designed to fail. You can blame anyone but you chose a hardline strategy. Stupid leaders who prefered to hangout in Washinton DC. You destroyed any goodwill with mainlanders. And you can see the consequences of your choices. Although you will not accept this. If you want to go even further back, this could have been prevented if Chan Tong-kai hadn't murdered his girlfriend. No use now anyway. 攬炒

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weneedafuture 7 hs ago

Can you answer two things for me: 1. Whats your version of the time line in regards to when the protests started and when the extradition bill was fully withdrawn? 2. Could you list the five demands and describe each as to why you find it stupid?

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NovusVentus 3 hs ago

>Could you list the five demands and describe each as to why you find it stupid? - Dual universal suffrage, meaning for both the Legislative Council and the Chief Executive This was politically unfeasible and far far beyond the original demand for withdrawal of the extradtion bill. Still it could have been a starting point for negotiation. Maybe expand directly election and reduce Functional Constituencies. or something like that. - Amnesty for arrested protesters This one is both actually and politically wrong. It cannot be a blanket amnesty. Release of some protesters could have been negotiated. The main point is, in the end "not one less" destroyed any leverage the protestors had. That meant no negotiation, no way to come back from the brink. No point of trying to find a middle ground.

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airui 6 hs ago

Don't feed the wumaos

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NovusVentus 2 hs ago

low IQ NPC

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Bison256 8 hs ago

The great firewall is about to get a little bigger...

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wekiva 8 hs ago

Are these laws more restrictive/oppressive than the laws in the rest of China?

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Fallen_Walrus 8 hs ago

Some dudes made a Minecraft library so maybe they can try and use that

https://www.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/hm9hpk/using_minecraft_to_fight_censorship/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

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heels_n_skirt 8 hs ago

Police abuse & brutality will skyrocket. Even walking by them will be a crime.

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HoustonRed2001 1 h ago

Let's hope so, these protesters need to be put down asap!

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triumphant_don 1 h ago

It's not America

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Mentalfloss1 8 hs ago

Trump is so envious!!!

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CharlieXBravo 8 hs ago

"notice to freeze assets if they have “reasonable grounds” to suspect the property is related to an offence endangering national security."

Smart money would of moved their savings into foreign currencies in off shore accounts or assets. Good luck to all whom tries to immigrant out of Hong Kong.

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fat_stig 1 h ago

"Reasonable grounds" cannot be tested in the courts as the NSL is not subject to the judicial scrutiny of Basic Law. China's new Gestapo operating in Hong Kong can do whatever they want. > The Gestapo had the authority to investigate cases of treason, espionage, sabotage and criminal attacks on the Nazi Party and Germany. The basic Gestapo law passed by the government in 1936 gave the Gestapo carte blanche to operate without judicial review—in effect, putting it above the law. The Gestapo was specifically exempted from responsibility to administrative courts, where citizens normally could sue the state to conform to laws. As early as 1935, a Prussian administrative court had ruled that the Gestapo's actions were not subject to judicial review. The SS officer Werner Best, one-time head of legal affairs in the Gestapo, summed up this policy by saying, "As long as the police carries out the will of the leadership, it is acting legally". >The power of the Gestapo included the use of what was called, Schutzhaft—"protective custody", a euphemism for the power to imprison people without judicial proceedings. An oddity of the system was that the prisoner had to sign his own Schutzhaftbefehl, an order declaring that the person had requested imprisonment—presumably out of fear of personal harm. **In addition, thousands of political prisoners throughout Germany—and from 1941, throughout the occupied territories under the Night and Fog Decree—simply disappeared while in Gestapo custody.** [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo)

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Clamjacob 1 h ago

They are anything BUT reasonable!

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CitJournalist 8 hs ago

TANK MAN

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marshallisgr8 41 mins ago

No, haha.

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Jerrnjizzim 1 h ago

When's the junji ito stuff coming?

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tadalwxd 1 h ago

I signed up for the trial and watched Dummy, which I enjoyed, but the 10 minute segment thing was annoying and having to use my phone was also annoying. I tried a couple other things but didn't get far into them because I was done with the format. What is mildly annoying with a show that's mostly just two actors in houses talking is infuriating for an action movie.

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HWK1590 3 hs ago

The format is so annoying when watching most of the content. Like most, I'm stuck at home and even am working from home for the foreseeable future. Having breaks every 10 minutes for all the episodes takes away the flow from the stuff that I've watched which were the more cinematic stuff like The Stranger, The Most Dangerous Game, and When the Streetlights Go On. The latter really needed to be longer too as the story was half-baked as told on Quibi. Would have been much better as a normal series on Hulu, it's original home.

I signed up for the 90-day free trial and won't be signing up past that.

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BaronVonCockmurder 3 hs ago

Making a successful media platform

Step one: Name that people can pronounce without consulting an oracle

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-Captain- 3 hs ago

Have they spend any of that money on marketing, because this is a first time I have heard about it.

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SittingOnStill 4 hs ago

All these celebs that bought into quibi got the easiest paydays of their lives lmao

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Liamggbb 4 hs ago

The ads on every single youtube video I got was what turned me away.

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Whytfbuddy 3 hs ago

But you ain’t see nothing like this tho

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ix0WXOeip4V6 4 hs ago

The investments helped secure a slate of A-list directors and producers for the launch of the app, which was no longer called NewTV. (It turned out — whoops — that there was already a company named NewTV.) The new name was Quibi. Katzenberg had originally wanted to call it Omakase, after the sushi tasting menus he enjoyed at least once a week at Nobu Malibu. “That would have really won over Wisconsin,” a former insider notes. Ultimately, Quibi won the day. “They never asked staff to weigh in on it,” this person says. “People on staff thought it was cringey and would ask, ‘Is it too late to change it?’ Meg loved it.” Though arguably no sillier-sounding than Hulu, Quibi would be roundly mocked by people who thought it sounded like a “quinoa-based doggy snack” or “the cry of an attacking Ewok.”

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violet_kryptonite 4 hs ago

I kinda want Quibi to flop cause Willam is insufferable on Race Chaser and he's supposed to have a show on it at some point.

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RupestrianOwl 5 hs ago

Everyone I know despises Quibi and will never give it a chance, all because of the over-saturation of advertising for it we had to endure. So many companies don’t realize that seeing the same commercial 200 to 300 times is exhausting and we will forever associate the brand name with the frustration we felt each time their commercial came on again.

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yourpalgordo 5 hs ago

Thanks for posting this! Great read!

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illini02 5 hs ago

I think a big part is just the fact that we've been on lockdown since they launched. Whereas I can see this being a good service if you are commuting to work or something, the fact that I can watch so much on my regular TV, which I now have access to all day, makes me wanting to watch something on my phone not appealing

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bahumat42 3 hs ago

Thing is the market their competing with is YouTube (and to a lesser degree social media scrolling). Their always going to struggle against a free (and content rich) competition) corona just accelerated its demise.

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chowdaaah 5 hs ago

I actually tried to watch it but they don’t have an app on AppleTV. Sorry, I don’t watch tv on my phone or laptop...

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twbrn 4 hs ago

You're not permitted to watch on your laptop. Only your phone.

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law_n_disorder 5 hs ago

My god, it’s almost as if the principle of market saturation combined with inferior offerings leads to diminished returns... I for one am shocked, shocked to find failure here.

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Iusethisforporn25 5 hs ago

I didn't realize it had launched already.

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WouldYouKindlyyy 5 hs ago

Y’all better check out Swippi. Scott’s profound new content platform.

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blurplethenurple 5 hs ago

Yeah I love that insane Gary Busey movie where he turns into a Pomeranian to fix his worldly mistakes after an unexpected death.

Oh shit Quibi, not Quigley. Never heard of it to be honest.

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WouldYouKindlyyy 6 hs ago

You just never cross the Pan Man. You don’t do it. Scott the Pan Man will always win. Scott is our Pan. And our Pan don’t bow to the Man.

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elsawah 6 hs ago

I thought it was a great idea at first. The short form is ideal for watching on your commute, waiting for your turn at the doctor’s, for example.

So launching during the pandemic was unfortunate because people are staying at home and have a) more time and b) bigger screens.

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NumberOneDadSeanBach 6 hs ago

https://youtu.be/ihFePUknSIc

Not sure if it's already been posted but here we go

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SoCalThrowAway7 6 hs ago

I watched Reno 911 and unsubscribed before free trial was over. I’ll get it again if more Reno gets put on there. I’ll subscribe to anything that gives me more Reno 911

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the5pacepope 4 hs ago

I was happy to see new Renos, but episodes being only 6 minutes long really sucks

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reinking 1 h ago

I actually liked Reno 911 on Quibi because of that. It was the kind of content I was looking for from the service. Where they lost me is the 30-60 minute episodes broken up into segments that are nothing more than where a normal commercial break would appear in a broadcast. Kind of dumb to have a short from service with long form content.

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SoCalThrowAway7 4 hs ago

It’s never enough

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the5pacepope 4 hs ago

fair point

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jogoso2014 6 hs ago

It has way too many barriers to entry and interest.

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BeetsBy_Schrute 6 hs ago

I’m only reminded of Quibi existing by seeing a post on Reddit every two weeks about how badly it’s failing. I read it, then move on and within five minutes, forget it exists again. Rinse and repeat.

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themps 6 hs ago

Watched most dangerous game... It was frustrating to get working properly on chromecast with the loading issues did not support roku. Most people would have just given up. And the episodes were way too short. They should have just released it as an all together movie. Or a few longer episodes.

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greydoych 8 hs ago

All these stories about which app is the best champion on the user by not handling user data to governments, is a way to deviate from the real privacy hole : METADATA who, when, how often , social graphs, groups... Guess what govs don't need to intimidate CEOs for user data, they just tap into the wires and scoop up the metadata, its there for anyone to grab, they dont care what we say on these apps , they are interested in big data patterns

Telegram can use this for PR marketing

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thingscouldbeworse 9 hs ago

Uhm... as Signal puts it, why was Telegram even sharing data to begin with? And why did they have user data they could turn over?

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LeBB2KK 8 hs ago

Because if you post any pedo / snuff / terrorist shits in public groups / channels, your data ought to be shared with relevant authorities.

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hades316x 16 hs ago

for the record, telegram hosts rape pornography and other illegal porn channels. it's not a good thing that they're refusing to provide user data

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GundamNewType 17 hs ago

Russia did the same thing, telegram CEO refused, got kick out of the country for life.

However, Google, facebook and twitter are hard to say, they sell data all the times.

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karkov 18 hs ago

if telegram was E2EE, this wouldn't be an issue

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LeBB2KK 17 hs ago

This only concern public groups. So E2EE is irrelevant here.

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ITriedLightningTendr 18 hs ago

Temporary refusal for a permanent law

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GradualCrescendo Yesterday

This is Telegram's fault for storing user data in the first place while claiming to be secure.

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01011970 Yesterday

But remember: British colonialism is bad.

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rorykoehler Yesterday

Yes it was/is. CCP and colonialism can be bad at the same time.

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drpacket Yesterday

Dealing with China

The worst is: with all their very questionable motives + evil done and in the making - the World (underneath the usual „moral reservations“) is quite fond of China for making the World-Economy grow. (mostly=US Economy, building all those shiny new tech toys „made in Shenzen“)

Openly condemning China one morning, just to call it the afternoon to see how “business is doing”  - That’s just sad and very, very ineffective.

Also we are coming to a point in US- China relations, where the US need China “just as much - if not more”

That is definitely a bad thing for leverage ...

The U.S. relationship with China is not unlike a long, rather unhappy marriage - held together mostly by the effects of Globalization (And believe it or not: WE ARE THE WIFE).

When Jinping met Sam

We don’t really like much of what our “Great Communist Leader” has to say. We do not like his talks, and most of the time, we feel like we don’t really understand him. Even though he is our husband, I secretly believe he feels the same way

When those silly people in the press say something bad about him, I‘m also angry. Not because of the allegations made, but mostly because people will start to look at us in a different light. Question our Integrity. Hell - even our Morality! We can’t have that, so we tell everybody that we did not know ANY OF IT! We are outraged, and sometimes even say “We will not take it anymore.“

Yet at home at the dinner table, we don’t say a word. We’re both angry the bad news got out. Our Husband says he „will handle it“. I’m somewhat relieved.

Next morning: Everything back to normal. We make a lot of money, and life is good for the moment (for us at least).

We know this isn’t love. He married us mostly for our known American Name. He moved up in daddy’s Company real fast. He’s seems to be involved in EVERY Aspect of the Company. He ALWAYS finds something that interests him.

Sometimes we get strange calls at night, from people in Switzerland, Singapore, Beliz, or Russia. Jinping would just say “Don’t worry, dear. We are in Business with these people. They simply forgot about the time difference!”

Recently we got upset because old real-estate documents went missing. Properties - in family possession for generations! Eventually Jinping found them in just the same room we’d been searching when we started an hour ago.

Then he started smiling and assuringly patting my shoulder: “Patience, Patience my dear. You Americans... It all has to be NOW with you. Work, stay persistent, stay patient ...and you will succeed in the end. Tomorrow, we have tickets for Opera my dear. Special seats”

“Ahh, my Jinping ”. I thought, smiling. It’s impossible to be mad with him for long”

—————————————————————————

I really do hope Telegram stands firm on this matter. And also beware of the less legal ways they could obtain the data.

It might even make sense to become proactive:

Delete all potentially affected chat accounts. Make an option to enable secret chats by default. (Could turn on/off)

Autodelete Feature also for the Chats. They get swiped every morning. Media wanted persistent has to be saved - either by clicking, or an autosave option enable by default for ALL living in a political problem area

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shigama Yesterday

They can't access "private" chats since it's end to end encrypted anyway.

E: private =! Group

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maqp2 Yesterday

None of the Telegram group chats the dissidents created are end-to-end encrypted because Telegram has no end-to-end encrypted group chats. When CCA hacks Telegram's servers in Singapore with a zero-day exploit, they can read every group message of every Hong Kong citizen. Let's not advocate a dangerous app. :)

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rorykoehler Yesterday

How serious can you be if you use Telegram group chats for revolutionary organisation? They wouldn't last 2 seconds against a foe like the CCP with that level of amateur hour.

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maqp2 Yesterday

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-telegram-exclusive/exclusive-messaging-app-telegram-moves-to-protect-identity-of-hong-kong-protesters-idUSKCN1VK2NI](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-hongkong-telegram-exclusive/exclusive-messaging-app-telegram-moves-to-protect-identity-of-hong-kong-protesters-idUSKCN1VK2NI) [https://www.zdnet.com/article/hong-kong-protesters-warn-of-telegram-feature-that-can-disclose-their-identities/](https://www.zdnet.com/article/hong-kong-protesters-warn-of-telegram-feature-that-can-disclose-their-identities/) [https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/08/31/new-telegram-shock-encrypted-app-changes-for-200m-users-to-protect-hk-protesters/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/08/31/new-telegram-shock-encrypted-app-changes-for-200m-users-to-protect-hk-protesters/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/clt25t/any\_englishlanguage\_telegram\_groups\_to\_join\_for/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/clt25t/any_englishlanguage_telegram_groups_to_join_for/) [https://www.dimsumdaily.hk/exclusive-full-list-of-telegram-chat-groups-used-by-organisers-and-protesters-to-co-ordinate-rallies-from-today-till-sunday/](https://www.dimsumdaily.hk/exclusive-full-list-of-telegram-chat-groups-used-by-organisers-and-protesters-to-co-ordinate-rallies-from-today-till-sunday/) You want the rest of the 67M results from my online search? So yeah, there's "a bunch" of people using Telegram and they all think it's the most secure option, or otherwise they'd probably use something else that gets the job done.

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rorykoehler Yesterday

Well then they're monumentally stupid and fucked.

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maqp2 Yesterday

Yup, but kind of shows what damage a crappy company can do. Telegram "fixed the issue" by adding a setting to protect the users, but they didn't actually change anything for the users so majority of the users are still vulnerable. These people are bound to get arrested, sent to "re-education camps" or sold as spare parts. Shows that infosec isn't a fucking game of bullshit you can play from your pent house in Dubai.

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DiptyDoDah Yesterday

Don't give them a plug nickle until they redeem the time they have stolen and ASSURED that fifty years of the Common Law will remain.

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ObservationPoke Yesterday

Signal is a CIA funded operation. Read about it in 20 years and act surprised

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maqp2 Yesterday

Meanwhile: Telegram that by default lacks end-to-end encryption for groups and majority of desktop clients is the work of the hero of the people, Pavel Durov, a man who specialized in information warfare and disinformation while in military service, a man who created the world's third largest commercial spy app (VKontakte), and a man who was "exiled" from Russia for two whole months after which the charges were dropped :D Oh save us, Pavel Durov!

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miami-architecture Yesterday

The CIA and other government agencies can circumvent messaging apps if they compromise your smartphone, they can’t unencrypt texts or audio in a man in the middle attack.

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maqp2 Yesterday

>The CIA and other government agencies can circumvent messaging apps if they compromise your smartphone, Yeah that's a fundamental limitation of a networked TCB. All it can do is ubiquitous E2EE (which Signal does and Telegram doesn't). If you need protection from remote compromise you need split TCB and data diodes. Source: I'm the author of the only implementation currently in existence [https://github.com/maqp/tfc](https://github.com/maqp/tfc) (at lest in public sphere)

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ObservationPoke Yesterday

Conventional knowledge 20 years ago also said your data is safe if you use a world class encryption company. Except for the fact that they owned it [https://thehill.com/regulation/international/482522-cia-used-encryption-company-to-spy-on-other-countries-for-decades](https://thehill.com/regulation/international/482522-cia-used-encryption-company-to-spy-on-other-countries-for-decades) Who really paid for Signal?

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maqp2 Yesterday

So let me see if I got this right. 1. 20 years ago one company sold encryption products with **closed design** that allowed hiding a backdoor into them. 2. Therefore, 20 years later, any encryption product with **open design** must be flawed because the money wasn't hand printed by Keanu Reeves? Do enlighten us, how does the money magically convert reproducible builds of open source project with formally audited open design protocol with best practice primitives, into a backdoored product? tl;dr you're talking out of your butt.

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ObservationPoke Yesterday

Like I said, act surprised in 20 years A security product that everyone has the source code to is an invitation to get frequently visited in the butt open source doesn't mean bug free and you can't outspend them

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maqp2 Yesterday

>open source doesn't mean bug free and you can't outspend them So you're moving the goal posts from "it has a backdoor from funding" to "it can't possibly fix all of its vulnerabilities". A bug-free product is an impossible standard. Signal's following the best practices of the field and that's enough. If you want something more robust you need something like [https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10565-what\_s\_left\_for\_private\_messaging#t=1689](https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10565-what_s_left_for_private_messaging#t=1689)

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ObservationPoke Yesterday

I never said it has a backdoor from funding. It was funded as an open source product with a major known vulnerability that's unlikely to come to light because, like I said, you can't outspend them So when it its found out finally, act surprised. My post will be long gone by then

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DygonZ Yesterday

>a major known vulnerability that's unlikely to come to light because, like I said, you can't outspend them No (built in) vulnerability will come to light because it's open source. Anybody can audit the code and a lot of people have. Of course errors are found but they are swiftly patched. However there are always coding errors and making software open sources is the fastest way to get them out and also make sure no malicious code is built in.

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ObservationPoke Yesterday

Here's how it will play out https://www.computerweekly.com/news/252473363/EU-patches-20-year-old-open-source-vulnerability "Oops"

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DygonZ Yesterday

And if it was closed source, it probably would have never been found. Not to mention that Putty is waaaaaay more complex than Signal.

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maqp2 Yesterday

>It was funded as an open source product with a major known vulnerability that's unlikely to come to light because, like I said, you can't outspend them So was the funding from malicious source? Did someone place the vulnerability in or did it happen by accident? Is the vulnerability known to Signal developers or to the malicious entity? Or both? Who are "they"? How large is their budget?

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ObservationPoke Yesterday

here let me google that for you https://www.google.com/search?q=signal+messaging+app+cia&oq=signal+messaging+app+cia&aqs=chrome..69i57.4216j0j9&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

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maqp2 Yesterday

>Google is not an academic source, or indeed, a source at all. "Google" should never be cited as a source. Rather, Google is a search engine designed to help find materials that are available on the internet. https://libanswers.uwinnipeg.ca/faq/156269 Cite the sources you trust and that you want to discuss.

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miami-architecture Yesterday

this is similar to the time the cia installed cameras in xerox machines that were sold to the u.s.s.r

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birdyroger Yesterday

Now we get to see the Real Chinese Communist Party.

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scaur 國外勢力 Yesterday

Are their database local in HK ?

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GundamNewType 17 hs ago

No

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Stiltzkinn Yesterday

Good, fuck West Taiwan.

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Aristocrafied Yesterday

I thought Telegram boasted about everything being completely secure..

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maqp2 Yesterday

They really do boast, unfortunately Telegram's security is so bad professional cryptographers like Matt Green joke about it [https://twitter.com/matthew\_d\_green/status/1279565826350252032](https://twitter.com/matthew_d_green/status/1279565826350252032)

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wobine8229 Yesterday

Yup it is, as long as telegram don't handover user data i don't think govt can access it, also telegram can access only those data that people share public groups, 'secret' chats are still full encrypted and even telegram themselves can't access the data but i think they can still ban a particular secret chat or group if govt requests it.

22

maqp2 Yesterday

That was really thoughtfully written. The secret chats are unfortunately available for groups or desktop clients so it's highly unlikely you'll be using the secret chats. This is the big issue with Telegram: The end-to-end encryption isn't usable enough for it to be actually used.

6

MerylStreeper Yesterday

Also, it's closed source e2ee, so it's probably low quality.

7

maqp2 Yesterday

The opt-in E2EE implementation is open source but even that has a long list of security issues from expired primitives to flawed semantic security to too small fingerprints. These have been fixed but it shows the developers are amateurs and amateurs have no place in designing cryptographic protocols. The fact they didn't hire a cryptographer to design the protocol feels insane.

7

MerylStreeper 10 hs ago

Exactly. The first rule about crypto is "you don't roll your own crypto".

1

among_bridge_four Yesterday

Don't use Telegram. Use Signal instead.

23

Longsheep Yesterday

We use both in Hong Kong. Telegram secret chat is still next to impossible to intercept/unlock as messages are deleted in seconds after getting read.

4

joker_wcy Yesterday

According to their [terms and privacy policy](https://signal.org/legal/), they may give up your data to the government. >**Information we may share** > >**Other instances where Signal may need to share your data** > >To meet any applicable law, regulation, legal process or enforceable governmental request.

3

OrderlyPanic Yesterday

They can hand over the data but since it uses end to end encryption they can't actually decrypt it to satisfy a court order, so what they hand over would be useless.

4

DygonZ Yesterday

It's end to end encryption and also not saved on their servers, so there's nothing to hand over. I suppose they could hand over the logs of when a message was send, or a conversation took place, but not the actual message.

4

sandsou 6 hs ago

Not even that if the last government request received by Signal could be taken as a reference. >the only information we can produce in response to a request like this is the date and time a user registered with Signal and the last date of a user’s connectivity to the Signal service [https://signal.org/bigbrother/](https://signal.org/bigbrother/)

1

joker_wcy Yesterday

Hope that's true because they do not indicate what data they will hand over.

1

StantonMcBride Yesterday

Signal is open source, idk what these people are talking about saying it’s not secure.

7

Rizzan8 16 hs ago

*Puts on tinfoil* But would it be possible for someone who is responsible for adding/updating the application on iOS store / play store to use a modified source code which could contain a spying logic?

2

StantonMcBride 14 hs ago

Hmmm, normally? Yes. Seems this can often be difficult to verify: https://blogs.kde.org/2013/06/19/really-source-code-software But signal purposely makes their builds reproducible for this exact reason, so I’d say in this case probably not. I guess anything is possible though. https://blogs.kde.org/2013/06/19/really-source-code-software

1

WeAreBRICS Yesterday

Lol Signal made by the same people as the spyware and backdoor infested Whatsapp? No thanks, Telegram is at least secure.

0

TudorSuta Yesterday

Signal is not made by Facebook. What are you on about?

14

betelgeuse_boom_boom Yesterday

Probably the signal cannot go through his tinfoil hat. Whatever is open source can be audited, it does not matter who made it.

6

maqp2 Yesterday

There's a limit. Depends on how well it's written. Signal's code was so beautiful Matt Green said he found himself drooling, I agree, and Telegram's code is so bad I feel sick every time I look at it.

2

WeAreBRICS Yesterday

Signal is made by the same people that made Whatsapp. Facebook didn't make Whatsapp, they bought it. Signal is probably just as compromised as Whatsapp.

0

Elocai Yesterday

You are confusing WhatsApp pre Facebook with WhatsApp after Facebook (the new compromised version)

5

maqp2 Yesterday

And I suppose you're the journalist breaking us the news and evidence on how Post-FB WA's Signal protocol was compromised, by providing us the source code highlights. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proofs. tl;dr You can't say it's backdoored without evidence, you can however say "we must not trust because we can't inspect it".

1

WeAreBRICS Yesterday

It has always been heavily compromised.

0

sandsou Yesterday

They serve different use cases. Signal with ppl you know, Telegram with ppl you don't (and channels).

16

maqp2 Yesterday

I get what you mean, you can join random groups with Telegram but the issue is already that Telegram knows who you are and they know what groups you join, and they can also see all the group messages. If you consider Telegram fully open like IRC it's probably OK, but the problem is people think Telegram is more private which makes them do dangerous thinking they're "untouchable": just because the developers refuse to hand out data doesn't mean the e.g. the Chinese Cyber Army can't just hack the data off their servers. Also, Telegram still by default reveals your username to anyone who adds your phone number to their contact list (you have to opt-out from settings to get protection for that which is really dangerous for protesters). We shouldn't encourage people to use insecure software.

5

sandsou 6 hs ago

I agree. I was simply pointing out that, at least for now, Signal could not functionally replace Telegram. I wish it could and would sometime soon.

1

Longsheep Yesterday

Groups are just for getting info. You use secret chat for anything important, and always give no access to contacts.

1

maqp2 Yesterday

>Groups are just for getting info Oh and where on Telegram's front page is this important piece of [OPSEC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operations_security) everyone needs to know? :D:D Is it somewhere close to >***Telegram*** *messages are heavily encrypted and can self-destruct.* I can't see it.  >You use secret chat for anything important, What if I want to say anything important to many people at once?'  >and always give no access to contacts. Why isn't this the default option? Whose fault is it if users get deanonymized because of bad defaults? Let's just stop being apologists for crappy messaging apps from Russian amateurs?

3

Rumblestillskin Yesterday

If telegram is giving data to governments by request it is not good for any use case.

12

SacredBeard Yesterday

Problem is that there is no secure and trustworthy app which supports channels... Hence there being a use case!

1

Rumblestillskin 14 hs ago

Matrix has secure channels. I'm sure there are others too.

3

SacredBeard 12 hs ago

They are? Will look into it! Thank you!

1

maqp2 Yesterday

Channels aren't anything but blogs when you think about it. You don't need Telegram to share text and pics. For Telegram to offer private channels it should make the user anonymous, but Telegram has your phone number so you're not. Sad trombone.

2

SacredBeard Yesterday

Giving Telegram your real number is as sensible as writing a blog without a VPN...

2

Longsheep Yesterday

Telegram can be registered with virtual numbers... find a free text website and register for a foreign number just to receive the SMS Text from Telegram and you got a new account... The number usually expires soon so there is no way to track you out. Though there is also no way to recover your account afterward.

1

maqp2 Yesterday

Sure, but majority of people do that any way. Luckily Hong Kong doesn't require registering prepaid SIMs, but in China they do and that might spread https://prepaid-data-sim-card.fandom.com/wiki/Registration_Policies_Per_Country

1

SacredBeard 17 hs ago

The majority of people throw so much information of themselves out there that the usage of an alternative like signal becomes naught as well...

0

maqp2 17 hs ago

Gotta start somewhere. For many an avenue for control in one aspect opens up an entire world of open source / private alternatives :)

1

maqp2 Yesterday

The secure messaging app Signal has been rising in the app charts and was at number one on the Android store over the weekend.

Can't but smile.

The world needs more apps like Signal that have no sensitive information whatsoever about the users so that they remain secure even if the CCA hacks the server.

27

Dewey_Booda 13 hs ago

I'd love to switch from Telegram to Signal, but their desktop version is absolutely horrible :(

1

VarkingRunesong Yesterday

Other than phone number*

7

maqp2 Yesterday

Oh yeah, that hashed identifier that ensures they don't have to store my social graph on their servers. Oh and they're already working on usernames. Luckily the government has no way to find out my phone number through any other means, like ask TelCos.

4

jaxles 16 hs ago

What about Riot.im

1

maqp2 16 hs ago

I'll recommend Matrix ecosystem the day the client base is ubiquitously E2EE by default <: AFAIK, so far there's just two safe clients (Riot desktop and RiotX) that do that. Riot Web isn't safe as per [https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/1121.pdf](https://eprint.iacr.org/2018/1121.pdf)

1

Alarming_Salary Yesterday

Usernames need to come sooner.

3

maqp2 18 hs ago

How much have you donated to Signal to make that happen? How many pull requests have you submitted? Be the change you want to see in the world.

0

Alarming_Salary 18 hs ago

$10 a month, you peasant.

2

maqp2 18 hs ago

So give more. It's not me complaining.

0

Alarming_Salary 17 hs ago

Idk, it's a little condescending.

3

VarkingRunesong Yesterday

Your phone number? Yeah. And I’m happy they are working on a system where providing your number isn’t needed.

9

Anonymous3355 Yesterday

temporarily refuse data requests

Telegram has never ever served a data request. As per their FAQ they've so far given out exactly 0 bytes of information.

8

JebusdeMazaret Yesterday

Temporarily

0

Nibleggi Yesterday

You: 👍 Sticker

19

lordofbud Yesterday

Good, anyone complying with the CCP has no honor.

I'm glad to see Telegram holding on to theirs.

23

maschetoquevos 18 hs ago

Google sucks the dick of the CCP, Apple too

8

lordofbud 18 hs ago

Yes they do.

6

lordgallen Yesterday

Just use secret chats, and then telegram has nothing to turn into any government. From what I undertand telegram does not turn over data, unless it can be proven that the account poses an eminent threat, in other words, something really serious. Would like to see a link to the report from telegram, this sounds phony anyhow.

3

Berzel1us Yesterday

You can see it in their official channel here: Transparency Reports https://t.me/Transparency

2

karkov 18 hs ago

is there any way to confirm if that channel is official? transparency report should include the number of requests asked also.

2

Berzel1us 17 hs ago

You can check it out it section 8.3: Law enforcement authorities https://telegram.org/privacy

1

karkov 15 hs ago

thank you

1

ieathairpussy Yesterday

We’re still using telegrams?

0

hugopiovesan Yesterday

Telegram good whatsapp bad

14

Dekubitus Yesterday

Signal good, telegram bad

3

TransgenderHatrack Yesterday

Why

2

maqp2 Yesterday

Signal end-to-end encryption for everything, cross-platform, by default. Telegram **no** end-to-end encryption by default Telegram **no** end-to-end to end encryption for groups Telegram **no** end-to-end to end encryption for Windows/Linux desktop clients Telegram **no** cross-platform end-to-end encryption Signal good, Telegram bad.

1

Jay180 Yesterday

That is totally retarded stop.

8

TuckerMcInnes Yesterday

Use Signal instead of Telegram. It removes having to think about shit like this.

25

359bri 16 hs ago

Remember to use a burner sim when registering signal and do not leave the burner sim in your phone and do not connect your phone to WiFi when registering. Oh and watch out for [The Smurfs](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2015/03/10-spy-programmes-with-silly-codenames-used-by-gchq-and-nsa/)

2

TuckerMcInnes 15 hs ago

Yep and this extra effort will probably trip up a lot of people

1

359bri 15 hs ago

Unfortunately it will do.

1

ijordison Yesterday

Yep, proper strong encryption, run by a company that regularly tells governments to pound sand.

15

C2H4Doublebond Yesterday

reviews are complaining about mandatory uploading your contact list on cloud. Sounds sketchy to me.. any comments about that?

7

ARandomGuy_OnTheWeb 15 hs ago

**"Contacts.** Signal can optionally discover which contacts in your address book are Signal users, using a service designed to protect the privacy of your contacts. Information from the contacts on your device may be cryptographically hashed and transmitted to the server in order to [determine which of your contacts are registered](https://signal.org/blog/contact-discovery/). " [https://www.signal.org/legal/#privacy-policy](https://www.signal.org/legal/#privacy-policy)

2

Young_Goofy_Goblin Yesterday

still more secure & private than telegram

4

TuckerMcInnes Yesterday

Yes, 100% not true. Signal is legit. Open source, and run by Moxie Marlinspike.

0

EumenidesTheKind Yesterday

The main problem with Signal is how the user identifier is a phone number. It perfectly replaces the use case of WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger (real identities communicating securely), but for how Telegram is used in Hong Kong Signal is a bit lacking as a replacement (where you don't want your account to be associated with any of your personal identity at all). For the Telegram use case I would recommend Riot.im as a replacement.

2

Eat_the_Path Yesterday

Really? Because [they're talking about it on the Signal forum](https://community.signalusers.org/t/proper-secure-value-security-pins-are-too-easy-to-brute-force-sgx-is-not-reliable-enough/15096).

2

TuckerMcInnes Yesterday

Aren't you being very dishonest? Point out where Signal have access to your contact list.

0

Eat_the_Path Yesterday

The first line of the post I just linked? The numerous people saying the same thing? The fact that the app asks permissions to access your contacts? You say it's not true but there's a lot of people in the Signal community that believes it is. Why do they believe that?

3

TuckerMcInnes Yesterday

Alright, so you're lying. The link you provided proves Signal do not have access to your contact list. It literally contains a link to Signals blog where they explain in detail what they do: https://signal.org/blog/secure-value-recovery/ Why are you lying?

0

Eat_the_Path Yesterday

Why are you being so needlessly aggressive? You act like I'm attacking your core values, accusing me of lying, by asking why people are posting about something that is "100% not true". A quick Google shows that users are talking about it on the forums, on the App reviews. Again, why people talking about this supposedly non-existent issue? Can you answer that without accusing me dishonesty?

3

TuckerMcInnes 15 hs ago

Dude don't be a hypocrite. Look at your posts and see you're being aggressive and snarky. It doesn't matter what some random people are saying on a forum. Did you read the in-depth article I linked to? It explains everything there

0

just_tech_stuff Yesterday

Look at his post history, he's a teenager.

1

Eat_the_Path Yesterday

Mature comment for mature readers only. I don't make jokes on *my* Reddit account because I'm an *adult*.

0

just_tech_stuff 14 hs ago

> I don't make jokes on my Reddit account because I'm an adult. That's really odd Who am i talking to..

0

6 3

Newmovement69 Tin 8 hs ago

Bullish new for ethereum

1

vvpan 8 hs ago

My first thought was - but how do they limit who is able to receive the coin... And the answer is ERC-1404 as mentioned in the end of the article.

So why would they do it? Or why would investors prefer to use ERC-1404 instead of using ye olde centralized fund shares? It's more risky and the UX is well... we all know what it's like. Feels like the there has got to be more to their plan - cut out the middleman, decrease trading fees, own the trading...?

3

jumnhy 6 hs ago

I imagine it would help with overhead? I'm still reading through their prospectus, and it's not initially clear why one would do this instead of going through a traditional closed end fund. It appears that ArcaLabs' answer to this may that they want to be the first ones in this space offering such a thing; certainly it might make it easier for retail investors to get in on the fun. But I don't know what sort of inefficiencies it addresses on the back-end in terms of fund management. They're gonna be putting the money raised from selling ArCoin into Treasury notes, and they're going to be handling all the regulatory requirements they would be subject to in the traditional markets (regular NAV calculations, account statements, regulatory filings, etc) with the added layer of having a crypto currency. Which, once you create the token, not really much to do there. But it doesn't seem to make the rest of it any easier. I have zero knowledge of financial regulations; certainly the ERC-1404 standard was created and engineered for compliance, but I don't know enough about the regulatory landscape to understand if there's actually any value added over the traditional market vs simply allowing one to be compliant at all, which is what it appears to do. In such a case we'll see the real value adds come later, I guess?

2

decibels42 7 hs ago

A similar concept will be used in stablecoins issued by companies like Visa, imo. Companies like that will either bring certain protocols into their controlled wallets + not let their coins leave, or allow their coins to freely move like USDC/etc., but have “safety” limitations built into the coin to prevent use of it in certain situations or dapps. And this is when the true beauty of ETH-backed algorithmic stablecoins, or the competition amongst the various kinds of stablecoins, will become apparent.

8

iambabyjesus90 9 hs ago

This is fucking massive!!! How doesn’t this have 1000+ upvotes? Wake the fuuuuuck up, people!

1

rocketeer8015 Gold | QC: BTC 57, CC 32 | r/Politics 129 6 hs ago

>ERC-1404 is a more restrictive derivative of the popular ERC-20 interoperability protocol. The main difference is that ERC-1404 restricts where holders can send a token to a collection of whitelisted addresses. That’s a crucial point for regulators wary of letting tokens outside their scope. This is why. It imho undermines the whole point of crypto, they basically control who can own it and whom said person can send it too. 95% of the world will be excluded from this deal.

1

mojindu464 Redditor for 6 months. 4 hs ago

Hopes and dreams like on cardano to remain decentralized asside bitcoin looks like ethereum a traitor hell I liked vechain more anyway

1

BuyETHorDAI Redditor for 5 months. 3 hs ago

Ethereum is agnostic to its uses. It's an open platform. If people want to create whitelisted addresses, then they're free to do so. If Cardano is decentralized and open, then it'll be possible there as well. That's what a general purpose programmable blockchain is meant for.

1

mojindu464 Redditor for 6 months. 2 hs ago

k

1

Midwest_Parrothead Silver 6 hs ago

It'll be interesting to see the process to become whitelisted. IMO, there needs to be a reasonable balance between crypto and regulatory priorities. At the end of the day, a US treasury fund trading on the Ethereum blockchain is definitely a step in the right direction.

1

rocketeer8015 Gold | QC: BTC 57, CC 32 | r/Politics 129 4 hs ago

That’s easy. The process is that it may not be useable to subvert US sanctions. That’s pretty obvious if you pay any attention to international politics.

1

Midwest_Parrothead Silver 4 hs ago

It could be as simple as brokers having a KYC process that whitelists your address which I would definitely participate in. We'll have to wait and see.

1

rocketeer8015 Gold | QC: BTC 57, CC 32 | r/Politics 129 4 hs ago

How do you kyc a ETH address? You can kyc a person, but there is no government friendly way to prove that you control a address. Hell you could just transfer ownership by selling or leaking someone your private key.

1

Midwest_Parrothead Silver 4 hs ago

You could similarly open a US bank account then sell someone else your account info, login credentials, etc. KYC/AML isn't perfect.

1

iambabyjesus90 6 hs ago

It was meant for that option. Without it wouldn’t be approved atm. This is the beginning man. Everything has to start somewhere.

3

rocketeer8015 Gold | QC: BTC 57, CC 32 | r/Politics 129 5 hs ago

That’s not a beginning, that’s the SEC having drawn a line in the sand and gotten their way 100%. Why would they ever allow a ERC-20 token after this? What leverage do we or anyone wanting that have? None of the people in Congress would allow or endorse that, they are way to worried about some people in the Middle East slipping their sanctions and strong arming. What you see here is nothing less than the defense of US soft power. They give that up when they give up the dollar being the worlds reserve currency and their status as superpower.

1

iambabyjesus90 9 hs ago

This is fucking massive! How does it only have 3 upvotes in two hours!! Wtf people.

2

Midwest_Parrothead Silver 11 hs ago

The launch marks the first time the crypto-skeptical SEC has allowed a fund represented by cryptographics tokens to enter the investment markets under the Investment Company Act of 1940. Arca has been pushing for various forms of the ArCoin proposal for nearly 20 months, as shown in regulatory filings.

2

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1

2

14 2

stapler117 Compulsive streaker 6 years ago

::1 is easier, but sadly chrome seems to not realize it is an IPv6 address :(

2

anoncy Mr Rarw 6 years ago

On the other hand, neither does nearly everyone else... Forethought in engineering is good, but let's get interplanetary travel first before we define addresses for intergalactic...

1

StrangeUSB I Have No Idea What I'm Doing 6 years ago

I forgot I had a webserver running. That was a weird experience.

2

anoncy Mr Rarw 6 years ago

My service to the community. Anything good on it?

1

DarkAsMySoul 7 years ago

le reddit a shit XD

1

Fogun 7 years ago

Bungay is over, long live le reddit xd lel

2

anonymous_cat 8 years ago

Seriously guys, the chick on this site looks exactly like my mom! No kidding, it could be her stunt double!!!

2

gwillewyn 13 years ago

Anyone who is running a web server is geeky enough to notice the (127.0.0.1) after the link before even clicking. Those who don't notice won't get the joke anyway.

0

exobyte 13 years ago

There's no place like 127.0.0.1

1

whereverjustice 13 years ago

How did this get to the front page? I just don't understand.

0

[deleted] 13 years ago

Well, you see, there are these little arrows to the left of each story, and if a lot more people click on the arrow pointing up than on the arrow pointing down, the story moves closer to the top of the front page.

17

shabda 13 years ago

Oh really. I thought that happens when I sacrifice a kitten. Oh the poor kittens.

9

[deleted] 13 years ago

Well, it's harder to manipulate scores on reddit [than on Digg](/info/176of/comments). Sacrificing kittens is as effective a tool as we have right now.

6

tittiesgumption 13 years ago

Submitted to the RIAA. You better take that sh!t down, NOW.

15

pornholio21 13 years ago

Hey, who gave you permission to invade my website?

Unless this software is removed I will file a complaint with the FBI

14

adelcambre 13 years ago

Somebody just did something very similar to freedesktop.org Funny stuff.

1

jtra 13 years ago

Ah, nice abuse of reddit.

0

nekoniku 13 years ago

My next doormat:

http://www.thinkgeek.com/homeoffice/gear/6806/

5

okvol 13 years ago

There no place like home...

Dorothy

4

dave 13 years ago

Haha! Sorry, everyone, I couldn't resist.

15

dannyhw 13 years ago

Hey, it's good to check once in a while!

4

turbo-tom 13 years ago

very good m8... nearly clicked it...

0

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XOcytosis Yesterday

All those shithole commie European countries don’t have to “live with it.”

1

annjolly Yesterday

In the US it’s more like “we have to get used to dying of it”

10

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1

farnzz 2 days ago

Problem is ... we aren’t “living” with it.

1

Jisifus 2 days ago

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1

dontdoxmebro2 2 days ago

This is a true statement, don’t know why it’s on this sub. Everyone needs to get it, most of all the young and healthy. And especially before the flu season starts again.

0

Snootump 2 days ago

Dear White House,

Suck my balls.

Sincerely,

Most of America

2

mrthewhite 2 days ago

So the US strategy is to give up and hope the death toll doesn't get TOO high. Some "great nation" you got there.

Edit: on a side note, I'm not at all surprised the guy who hasn't worked hard at a single thing in his life is giving up on something he barely tried to tackle in the first place.

4

NewTubeReview 2 days ago

I'd like to see a timeline of all of the idiotic things they've said about this up til now.

1

Drizzle11M 2 days ago

Science will solve this problem not some asshole politicians, especially the one in the oval orifice.

2

SunDriedHomunculus 2 days ago

President Donald Trump's top advisers plan to argue, the country must figure out how to press forward despite it [covid]. Therapeutic drugs will be showcased as a key component for doing that and the White House will increasingly emphasize the relatively low risk most Americans have of dying from the virus, officials said.

Oh nice, so everyone under financial stress gets another bill to pay. You'd think it'd be the role of government to prevent a national emergency. This is their way of saying "We haven't done shit, and we aren't going to do shit. You are on your own, bitches."

4

OMGimaDONKEY 2 days ago

Translation: shut up and die quietly.

2

misdirected_asshole 2 days ago

They're just going to put the "deal with it" sunglasses on a COVID emoji.

3

OldGreyTroll 2 days ago

A vaccine would make the odds of living ever so much in our favor.

5

danabrey 2 days ago

That day is still pretty far away. Keeping the spread low until that day is the whole point of lockdown, masks, social distancing etc. Alas, apparently those things are also just the big evil in the sky trying to keep people down.

8

NameReservedForYou 2 days ago

And in the meantime, so would leadership on mask wearing and distancing.

3

NameReservedForYou 2 days ago

Tragically, to date, 132,000 people in the US haven't been able to live with it.

Many more won't be able to either, especially now that the"wartime president " has surrendered

Edited to correct the deathtoll, and spelling

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dontdoxmebro2 2 days ago

The majority of whom were past their life expectancy and had factors making them vulnerable. Also 132k out of 350 million is a pretty small amount given the cost.

0

sentient_entropy 2 days ago

> Tragicly *Tragically

2

NameReservedForYou 2 days ago

Yeah, thanks

2

CortexiphanSubject81 2 days ago

Ha, you don't get it! You have to live with them not being able to live with. If people die, it's more for the rest of us and the stock market goes up! You just don't understand freedom.

3

moscow___mitch 2 days ago

That really the number? I thought it broke 100k two weeks ago?

6

buzmeister92 2 days ago

Google puts current US deaths around 132k as of 5 seconds ago

5

SunDriedHomunculus 2 days ago

yea google at 132k, CDC page at 129k. The scary part is, if you superimpose the 'new cases' and 'deaths' graphs on the google page, it looks like we are very quickly approaching another massive spike in deaths. Any minute now.

6

buzmeister92 2 days ago

anyone saying that this is over, or even close to over, or even close to HALFWAY over are all wrong. This thing is going to ravage our society for the coming months, maybe years, until we can get an actual vaccine.

3

SunDriedHomunculus 2 days ago

They still aren't sure they can illicit a proper vaccine response. Last I read, they haven't been able to prove that previous recoveries have developed any immunity. Unless my info is old. I don't think anything will change until the politics change, to be honest. Even if we got a vaccine right now, it would be priced out of relevancy.

2

NameReservedForYou 2 days ago

You're both right, apologies, my number was out of date

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RogerBateley 2 days ago

All these comparisons between the US and other nations. Which is fuckin irresponsible and ignorant. Good job commenters, you're fucking retarded.

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Paula_Polestark 2 days ago

What’s going to happen is we’re going to die with it! Or struggle along afterwards with near-worthless lungs.

1

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El_capitaine 2 days ago

Basically let’s potentially sacrifice friends or family for Wall Street

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agrapeana 2 days ago

~~Life~~, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

1

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spectredirector 2 days ago

This is insidious, it implies that everyone who dies from covid-19 isn't following orders. I mean this is some straight up Salem witch trials level of logic.

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Custom_Destination 2 days ago

Sounds a lot like “get over it “

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Productpusher 2 days ago

The clown house is also changing the narrative to blame everyone for the 120k deaths and not the govt “ look the hydrochloroquine works the Dems and msm didn’t let us use it that’s why people died “

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LeoMarius 2 days ago

The sheer incompetence of this misadministration. They have given up any pretense of fighting the Pandemic.

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-Apocralypse- 2 days ago

Mexico: "maybe we should finish that damn wall to contain this plague?" 🤔

1

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25 7 2

ogrelin 14 hs ago

~~Journalists~~

Activists

FTFY

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illuminatedtiger Yesterday

Can't say much about garden variety journalists but the investigative ones tend to be more thorough as they've got some skin in the game. If they're not thorough enough in their research they're exposing themselves to risk down the line either in the form of lost job opportunities or civil litigation.

That this recording comes from SV says a lot actually. They're the ones operating the platforms enabling it. Fuck them.

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almondmilk696 2 days ago

$1000 says she's gonna go on kara swisher's new nytimes podcast 💅🏻

balaji won't but ben horowitz will call taylor and apologize

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Neustrashimyy 3 days ago

This doesn't seem like 'news' in the grand scheme. I'm sure Rockefeller and J.P. Morgan didn't like journalists and investigative journalism either in their day. New Gilded Age, same old shit.

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JSavageOne 3 days ago

I talk about this with my friends all the time, can I get a news article in Vice too?

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carbunkles__ 3 days ago

Why is this in French?

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PNWboundanddown 3 days ago

They are discussing abuse of power?

How ironic

We’re coming for heads soon

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EmpiricalSneerer Man of Straw 3 days ago

How... how does cryptocurrency work as a model for journalism, exactly?

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birdcontent 3 days ago

There was an attempt made by an outfit called [Civil](https://civil.co/) to figure that out, but their first ICO failed (was not straightforward and required a scan of a government ID to buy, which I thought ran counter to their "journalism accountable to the people" shtick), and they never got CVL off the ground after that. Shut down altogether last month.

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dgerard paid shill for Big Basilisk 2 days ago

also they ripped off their own journalists, and at no point in their existence could anyone understand what the fuck their pitch was

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birdcontent 1 day ago

tbf if someone told me 70% of my salary would be paid in an as-yet-unissued crypto token, I would... perhaps not take that job

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Troll_Random 3 days ago

VCs are entitled trash.

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bralinho 3 days ago

Srinivasan is a little bitch. He complained that Taylor Lorenz plays the woman card but the first thing he does after that is playing the race card

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vsbobclear 3 days ago

Balaji is more annoying than every tech journalist put together, and I'm no fan of tech journalists

And his twitter is pretty mild compared to what it used to be. He used to insult people left and right for simply disagreeing with him.

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sesqwillinear 3 days ago

So, like, what's his actual job? Why do people care what he has to say about things?

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dgerard paid shill for Big Basilisk 3 days ago

Successful startup founder, then he became a bitcoin nut. Even the bitcoiners clown on him.

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vsbobclear 3 days ago

He founded a genomics company that he sold for $300 million, and then he started some crypto company which seems to have done not so well. I have no idea what he does now (other than capitalism and running his mouth like 20 hours a day on twitter).

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analogsquid 3 days ago

If I sold something from $300 million, I would take my money and fuck right off into the sunset. You'd never hear from me again. How miserable of a person do you have to be to have \*\*that much money\*\* and still argue with plebes on Twitter?

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dgerard paid shill for Big Basilisk 2 days ago

to be fair, if I somehow become fuck-you rich, I absolutely assure you I would never stop posting under any circumstances

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analogsquid 1 day ago

> I would never stop posting under any circumstances I will post in sneerclub, and sneerclub only

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orangejake 2 days ago

It's way more common than you'd think. Both Notch and JK Rowling have fallen into essentially the same hole (although with explicitly more hateful views).

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analogsquid 2 days ago

Dear entire internet: if your money doesn't make you happy... give it to me.

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vsbobclear 3 days ago

Really fucking miserable. Ironically, his first message after his major twitter purge (because he wanted to look nice when he was angling for a nomination as FDA head under Trump) was **"Don't argue on twitter. Build the future."**

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DaaaveT 3 days ago

It feels like (extreme?) wealth and success can generate an attitude of "I did this, I'm smarter than you." But maybe that's my lack of wealth talking.

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birdcontent 1 day ago

IMO having one and only one major public success (esp. one that isn't "all" his, since his brother cofounded Counsyl) has led to a ton of barely-concealed insecurity on his part. You can have dumb amounts of money and deep down still suspect that you just happened to luck out with the one thing that hit it big. See also all the chest-puffing he does about being one of the "builders".

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dgerard paid shill for Big Basilisk Yesterday

functionally he's an a16z and Thiel sockpuppet

2

analogsquid 3 days ago

Reasonable. "That will show you, middle school bullies." **shakes fist**

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WinterEquivalent 3 days ago

God, you know you struck a nerve with Brooklyn media types when they start comparing you to The Gamer Thing.

Also laughing hard at the "nobody pays attention to engagement" stuff. Fucking SPARE me. You work for Vice.

Edit: Oh God, that Koebler guy is every stereotype of an insufferable Vice writer brought to horrible life. Check out his Twitter feed. I will happily take the side of Silicon Valley dorks over these bloodless grotesque chattering pricks. That they are less harmful is ONLY due to their being inept at anything besides following Twitter trends and learning the House Style at Vice Media.

And the cheap shot at Scott Alexander made me wonder if that defamation firm that targets these people is hiring. I'd make them coffee.

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hambone_fakenameton 3 days ago

i think taylor is a decent writer who has carved out her own beat and probably covers it better than anyone else, however, i will never forgive her for saying we should ban AC (classic example of gentile privilege)

i agree that there aren't many sympathetic characters here.

2

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1

SneesusChrist 3 days ago

The most interesting part of this article to me is the claim that institutions like the Times are moving away from an ad-based revenue model in favor of "optioning their articles to movie studios" (among other things). Is that for real? What kind of articles get optioned to movie studios for significant sums of money?

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newspaperaddict 3 days ago

This was Propublica and TV but another example is the show Unbelievable

0

newspaperaddict 3 days ago

This was Propublica and TV but another example is the show Unbelievable

0

newspaperaddict 3 days ago

This was Propublica and TV but another example is the show Unbelievable

2

as9934 3 days ago

Trump taxes, Harvey Weinstein, 1619 project and Jungle Prince would probably all make for really compelling TV/movies. And those are just the ones off the top of my head.

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nochehalcon 3 days ago

This is real. Argo is an example from a few years ago, but not the only one. The keyword is option, not necessarily an immediately produced film.

4

newspaperaddict 3 days ago

This was Propublica and TV but another example is the show Unbelievable

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Miathemouse 3 days ago

I could see it for major investigative pieces, which took a lot of man-hours to sort through. For instance, if somebody wrote an in-depth expose on a specific case of embezzlement from a not-for-profit organization, that could be something that people would want to see a movie about; because all of the collection and interpretation of evidence was actually done by journalists, no studio would be able to claim that the idea did not come from the article.

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me-need-more-brain 3 days ago

Holy shit, despite the severity of the subject, I couldn't bring myself to read it til the end, it's just too ridiculous to read about adults behaving like middleschoolers setting up an online bully drama like ten years ago........

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Fauxney_Baloney 3 days ago

When people say "think of the children!' I say no! It's not the children that are the problem here. How about we "think of the adults?" They know not what they do, and they're the ones ruining everything. It's not the kids! They didn't ask for these problems.

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admiral_derpness 3 days ago

yeah it does read like kids

3

cmVkZGl0 3 days ago

I love whoever leaked this. Damn, they got them good.

3

sapatista 3 days ago

This is big

2

bitfriend6 3 days ago

The sentiment isn't wrong but it's not just a journalist issue. If you pay enough money/have enough twatter likes you can become a major pundit. This is how the President got elected, despite being a mediocre b-list businessman. Venture capitalists have tried to harness this energy for profit, and mostly succeeded.

1

yemwez I posted on r/sneerclub and all I got was this fla 3 days ago

The conversation was set off by a series of exhausting, insidery events from the last two weeks. Some in the Silicon Valley set turned their sights on the Times after Scott Alexander, a psychiatrist who ran the philosophy blog SlateStarCodex, deleted the entire blog because he said the Times was going to “dox” him by publishing his real name in an upcoming story. (It is worth noting that Alexander has republished SlateStarCodex blogs in books using his full name.) This event resurfaced an ongoing and tedious discussion among venture capitalist types about journalism ethics, business models, and publishing incentives.

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OwlsParliament 3 days ago

> (It is worth noting that Alexander has republished SlateStarCodex blogs in books using his full name.) Is this bit true? I thought he'd just used it on his LiveJournal a few times prior to making SSC.

15

pherq a dong-ruler for the brain 3 days ago

he republished a column or two under his legal name in some journal about the singularity in 2017

18

Hedy_L 3 days ago

On Twitter, there was a debate whether this was different, because despite having a reputable publisher, the journal probably reaches a much smaller audience than the NYT. However, there is no right to selective anonymity here, I believe.

12

noactuallyitspoptart One Man Brigade 3 days ago

He’s also done fuck all over the years to scrub his name off the internet when you could find it in five minutes on google (google!) long long before he and his fans made a big deal out of his anonymity shtick and Streisand-Effected his real name into the stratosphere The mods at /r/SneerClub obviously maintain our stance that we sympathise with him for the harassment he’s periodically suffered when his real name has come out on social media and maintain our stance against doxxing him But for me personally it is *incredibly fucking frustrating* that other people are expected to do the heavy-lifting on this increasingly ridiculous pseudo-anonymity, and that I have to field messages from angry Scott Alexander fans making various quite mad demands of me, and accusations/insinuations against me and others over this shit

19

giziti 3 days ago

There were posts on Overcoming Bias with his full name in the title, IIRC (if not there, in the first sentence) containing his full name until like 2 days after he deleted his web-log.

6

codemuncher 3 days ago

This is why I’m reluctant to call what might happen to him (still hasn’t happened!) as “doxxing” - he makes no effort to conceal his identity at all! He signs his blog posts with 2/3 of this real name! I personally think your middle name is more sensitive than your last name (and since I have two middle names, I keep one secret from most thing so it’s a way to know if it really is me). So, unfortunate? No comment. Doxxing? No way.

14

IsThisSatireOrNot 3 days ago

It's 100% unfortunate, but this strikes me as an attempt at having his cake and eating it too. This is speculation on my part, but I suspects he wants his thoughtful, surface-level-harmless work (such as his fiction) to be associated with his real name, while not wanting to tie his real name to the smokescreen-justifications for scientific racism.

8

Hedy_L 2 days ago

If you posted nude selfies somewhere on the web, or pictures of yourself smoking pot, and someone found these pictures and shared them with your employer - most people would only be mildly sympathetic. As a grown-up, you are expected to take this risk into account, and to act accordingly. I'm not sure why some people consider this situation fundamentally different.

3

reform_borg boring jock 2 days ago

If someone sent me a naked picture of someone I work with under nearly any set of circumstances short of "they posed for Playboy under their real name last week" I would think "that is a deeply fucked-up thing and I am so sorry that my coworker is dealing with someone like that in their life."

7

Hedy_L 2 days ago

I was obviously not referring to revenge porn or something of the sort here - this is out of the question. I was talking about people who deliberately and in a planned way (not for a few hours while they were drunk!) put personal information publicly on the web, for praise, attention, likes, money or whatever. Edit: [paragraph deleted] Edit: The main reason I posted that was because I was wondering if the people defending Scott Alexander here would react the same way if a black guy lost his job as a janitor after posing with a joint on Twitter and leaving the tweet up for a long time (Edit 2: Personally, I would, in fact, be much more sympathetic with the janitor). Or maybe I'm wrong and people would actually have the same reaction.

2

noactuallyitspoptart One Man Brigade 3 days ago

I also have two middle names! The latter of which is my mother’s family name, which she wanted to keep in the family but also didn’t want to curse me with having a double-barrelled surname (a sure sign in the UK of being overtly and often odiously posh). So it’s kind of hard to avoid hiding it from more dedicated people - which is why I don’t really bother hiding my real identity, and I don’t have much to lose or gain in the first place either way.

8

completely-ineffable The evil which knows itself for evil, and hates th 3 days ago

> The mods at /r/SneerClub obviously maintain our stance that we sympathise with him for the harassment he’s periodically suffered when his real name has come out on social media Indeed, we sympathize with anyone who faces harassment from alt-right racists

14

noactuallyitspoptart One Man Brigade 3 days ago

Exactly

10

SpooksGTFO 3 days ago

I saw this go down on twitter and i was shocked to discover that there is a "venture capitalist stan twitter". Also, the female founders and CEO's believe that they should be able to abuse their staff as much as their male counterparts, otherwise it is sexism.

8

andhelostthem 3 days ago

The twitter feud that spawned from this article gave me frickin headache. It's like these people only talk in buzzwords.

https://twitter.com/balajis/status/1278783278636363776

16

diagramsamm 3 days ago

SEO

6

potent_rodent Sunshine Nihilist // Accelerationist // Compound R 4 days ago

i'm on there trolling them. shhh!

8

AguirreWrathOfG0d 3 days ago

Lemme get an invite.

2

PlayingWitTheBoyz 4 days ago

Unpopular opinion here I guess, but I think she's actually a good writer and reporter. She writes to make internet culture legible to a demographic of people who aren't super online, so of course she rubs against most people in the red scare universe, but she's altogether a solid reporter who's good at describing the business and technology side of the internet, which I'm not plugged into. She's way better than the VC silicon valley ghouls she pissed off.

3

almondmilk696 2 days ago

exactly! the things she's covering are real and very important, and older, more established journalists don't understand or take them seriously. she may be a liberal feminist scold or whatever but when you take a good look at who is attacking her there's no question that they are the bad guys. and of course this all blew up over steph korey, who only has 800 followers because everyone unfollowed her! it wasn't some racist turn of phrase or microaggression that cost her her platform; she was running an exploitative and abusive work environment. it is no coincidence that the same people who want to gloss over and move on from a labor dispute as if it were an emotionally fueled personal attack, who want to condescendingly silence young reporters they don't like, who run the most prestigious VC firm in silicon valley and decide which ideas get investors and which ones don't, all while profiting from the hate-fueled panopticon that is the modern social media and e commerce landscape.

2

anongrrl 4 days ago

Do you have any articles of hers in particular that you'd recommend? Her writing hasn't connected with me yet, but a lot of people I follow seem to enjoy it and I'd like to understand.

1

janesingasong 3 days ago

I had always been suspicious/wary of those brands that essentially rely on the free labor of college kids embarrassing themselves[. Im Shmacked is one such brand and her expose was quite good](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/06/style/arya-toufanian-im-shmacked.html). It's a brand in the same vein as Barstool/Total Frat Move and I guess I had just wanted the confirmation bias of these companies being sus and sketchy and preying on vulnerable college students who just want the validation of Instagram fame and trust the credibility/ubiquity of the brand without looking into the business practices.

1

PlayingWitTheBoyz 3 days ago

It's been a while since I read her (I haven't really followed her since she left The Atlantic), but I remembered being really struck by her piece on the world of sponsored content by smaller influencers. [When a Sponsored Post Doesn't Pay Off](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/12/massive-influencer-management-platform-has-been-stiffing-people-payments/578767/) It's a good breakdown of the business behind influencers and how flimsy the business model of making money on the internet can be if you don't use patreon or get money from ad revenue (or at least it was in 2018, times have probably changed). I don't really interact with mainstream influencer types on instagram, so it was illuminating for me.

4

Barrin92 - @Barrin92 3 days ago

Plenty of things to talk about in that piece. For one the idea of this app seems entirely bizzare. A membership only app on which extremely wealthy people chat?

I had to seriously laugh seeing Horowitz invest millions after his "time to build" piece. We wanted flying cars and we got 140 characters, and now we wanted skyscrapers and spaceships and we get a digital nightclub for nerds.

Secondly I think it shows very clearly how much the superficially liberal, tolerant, woke entrepeneurs of this generation resemble old business tycoons. As soon as journalists shine a light on their behaviour, the masks come off.

I remember a piece I read last year on class dynamics[1]. The author characterises today's class war not as the working class vs the rich, but as the rich against the professional and managerial class. The 0.1% vs the top 10%. I think this was a pretty good observation and it's becoming more and more apparent. Journalists, public representatives, Engineers with a sense of ethics and so on are coming in increasing tension with the actual owners of the companies they work for. It is on display at Facebook but also in this article.

[1]https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2019/11/the-real-class-wa...

zozbot234 - @zozbot234 3 days ago

Some further tidbits in this Quora Q&A: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-July-2020-Twitter-spat-bet...

It looks to me like we might be about to see a pretty big kerfuffle between "tech" and traditional elite journalism, with non-trivial political overtones as well. This is kinda impressive to me since everyone kinda expects them to be politically aligned, but these sorts of alliances can also shift quite suddenly and unexpectedly. Both sides might then try to appeal to their more "grassroots" audiences, claiming that the other party is insincere and lacking in ethics. It won't be an outright call for "canceling", but the subtext will be similar.

throughaweigh - @throughaweigh 4 days ago

The rich and powerful attack those who attack their interests, but now they are more unified.

Notice that there is actually very little concrete criticism of the media, instead you get abstract assertions ("hit piece", "fake news"), ad hominems and so on. When pressed the elites say that the reporting isn't wrong but that they should still be portrayed in a positive light. Obviously journalism can't work if they got their way.

pl0x - @pl0x 3 days ago

Paul Graham, Ben Horowitz, Balaji Srinivasan, and Jason Calacanis have proven to the world how sexist and misogynistic they all are and many others(Naval, Marc Andressen) like them with in Silicon Valley.

untog - @untog 4 days ago

Eye opening but certainly not surprising.

It’s kind of incredible to think of these people, with all the power, fortune and access they have, spending their time attacking journalists. It feels like there’s a limitless number of more productive things to do. But the reality is that their press coverage is one of very few things they don’t have total control over and it drives them nuts.

tpmx - @tpmx 4 days ago

Who cares about what any of these self-important pricks think of themselves? (I'm thinking about both parts of the elite that's a part of this story - both the VCs and the hacks.)

pl0x - @pl0x 4 days ago

Paul Graham, Ben Horowitz, Balaji Srinivasan, and Jason Calacanis have proven to the world how sexist and misogynistic they all are and many others(Naval, Marc Andressen) like them with in Silicon Valley. We will never refer to them any of our portfolio companies.

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