Token Daily

We are excited to launch our new reactions feature that allows you to display how you feel about a product update - using an emoji 👍 - in our feed.

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#DeFi Summit is a community event that will be comprised of developer workshops and intimate discussions centered around Decentralized Finance. #DeFi Summit aims to be a unique gathering in that we're ditching the typical presentation-and-panel-style, instead focusing on participatory breakout sessions and technica..

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richyboycaldo 3 hs ago

To make it sound like he actually bought MKR. He did not buy any.

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tophertroniic 2 - 3 years account age. 300 - 1000 comment karma. 2 hs ago

“a16z crypto has purchased 6% of the total MKR token supply“ ???

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psswrd12345 4 hs ago

Great job, Maker team! A16z will be a perfect partner for what you [we] are trying to accomplish. Very nicely done.

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billybumbag 4 hs ago

How would this affect the price of the maker token, directly or indirectly?

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crypt0troll Lambo 7 hs ago

Maker sell out. Forget this coin

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blockheadcrypto Redditor for 5 months. 8 hs ago

Something bullish for Rchain too - maker is being ported to that platform as well.

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Recovery1980 6 hs ago

Link?

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blockheadcrypto Redditor for 5 months. 5 hs ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/RChain/comments/9fih2c/daos_on_rchain/?st=JMGUPOWN&sh=b54fba87

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Link-Help-Bot Redditor for 15 days. 6 hs ago

[Here you go.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)

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almondicecream Lover 10 hs ago

Damn. Look at Katy Haus bio

https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/kathryn-haun

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LamboshiNakaghini Redditor for 9 months. 3 hs ago

She's on the board of directors of coinbase. Forget about it boys we are going to the moon.

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All_Work_All_Play I <3 Variance 6 hs ago

Those are all buzzwords. I got three buzzword bingos from that page alone.

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almondicecream Lover 6 hs ago

When you're a stanford professor and clerk a supreme court judge you earn the right to use whatever words you want.

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kwadrax Redditor for 9 months. 10 hs ago

With an exciting fall full of announcements, MakerDAO is making its mark as a vanguard of blockchain technology. The team looks forward to continued product excellence and rapid Dai adoption in the coming months.

Lots more to come ...

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silkblueberry 10 hs ago

1,000,000 MKR Supply * 6% = 60,000 MKR tokens to a16z

$15,000,000 / 60,000 = $250 per MKR token

Current market price is about $450 per MKR

That's almost 50% off. Sweet deal for the big boys.

That said, it's very bullish that a16z sees MKR as a good investment and will be supporting it. MKR is an awesome project that has proved it's value.

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kingofcairo 1 - 2 years account age. 200 - 1000 comment karma. 7 hs ago

Exactly. This is fucked up. I like Maker, but homeboy discounts and the difficulty of obtaining maker currently prevent me from investing

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tophertroniic 2 - 3 years account age. 300 - 1000 comment karma. 1 h ago

And you see no relationship between your difficulty of obtaining MKR and their discount on a block trade? As I posted above, this $15 mil exchange was greater than the entire MKR volume of the last 30 days. By 30%.

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Mirzaak Redditor for 8 months. 9 hs ago

This. Everyone on heire should know the full story. Instead of buying like everybody else from open market, big boys already made profit by cutting a deal with the team and getting a 50% discount to a coin thats already trading. He sells now he made almost 15 mln. Bullsht

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tophertroniic 2 - 3 years account age. 300 - 1000 comment karma. 1 h ago

Oy. MKR holders have governance over the MakerDAO. By taking a material number of tokens, AH is bringing their expertise to the project, and has real world votes to influence the execution of the project, and skin in the game. They didn’t go through this deal to flip the tokens and market sell. Additionally, AH has “been investing in crypto assets for 5+ years. We’ve never sold any of those investments, and don’t plan to any time soon.” Does anyone here offer “full operational support from the 80+ person Andreessen Horrowitz a16z team?” No? Maybe bring something to the table and then you might be able to negotiate a private deal. It’s a god damn $15 million exchange and MKR is very thinly traded. **CoinMarketCap shows $11.4 million of volume total for the last 30 days!** It would be **expected** to be sold at a discount in such an illiquid market.

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Owdy ... 2 hs ago

There's nowhere near enough liquidity for that. They'd make at most 500k profit if they traded at market price.

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tophertroniic 2 - 3 years account age. 300 - 1000 comment karma. 1 h ago

Great point - And the Maker team would have an equally hard time raising $15 mil cash without this deal. They would have to sell and tank the price.

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JohnCryptoRambo 3 hs ago

I’m so sick of this shit. Every big player buys out the back door and waits on us little guys to buy and pump the price for them. The story keeps repeating when you dig deep enough about all the partnerships and hedge funds “getting in.” There are two prices for things and we need the big guys to buy on the market but they never do.

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Owdy ... 2 hs ago

Big players are taking big risks.

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monkey_in_the_bushes Redditor for 10 months. 5 hs ago

It totally is dude, but at least they're buying the same MKR we are and not some bullshit accredited-investor-only shares. It's progress.

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Nathaniel_Higgers 5 hs ago

It would not look good if the team was dumping tokens on the open market. This seems more like a strategic partnership.

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Robin_Hood_Jr Maker fan 9 hs ago

VCs aren't in the business of making 2x returns. That would be considered a failure. VC shoot for the moon to make 1000x and invest uniquely in things that have that potential. 9 out of 10 (and probably more than that) will go to 0, but they make their returns off of the 1 that does succeed.

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Owdy ... 2 hs ago

Nice story but multipliers only make sense if you look at the timeframe and risk.

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kwadrax Redditor for 9 months. 9 hs ago

Most of their tokens are locked for 1-3 years and they will be a big part in the succeeding of this project because of the people and connections they can add to it. Sure they will profit but that's what every investor wants no? So maybe you shouldn't comment "the full story" if you don't know it yourself.

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plaenar ETH maximalist 8 hs ago

Are any of their newly acquired 60,000 MKR tokens time locked though?

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kwadrax Redditor for 9 months. 7 hs ago

> so they have 10k MKR that is free, 20k MKR that has a lockup of 1 year, and 40k MKR that has a lockup of 3 years, as far as I'm aware > there's definitely no other stablecoin they are engaged with at the same level. There's a difference between just being an investment and then being a part of the core portfolio From [Maker chat](https://chat.makerdao.com/channel/general?msg=kLgbE3rhLZ4GMueWx) by /u/rune4444

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QryptoQid 1 - 2 years account age. 200 - 1000 comment karma. 2 hs ago

They're balls deep in Basis and Trust Token which is backing TrueUSD

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Theft_Via_Taxation 11 hs ago

And EOS lmao

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directdirt 5 hs ago

a16zcrypto hasn't publicly disclosed any investment in EOS. What's your point?

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postscapes 11 hs ago

Besides regulatory help from Katie Haun, any talks with them about getting Dai integrated into their other crypto portfolio projects?

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Lifeofahero 2 hs ago

You mean DFINITY? That’ll probably get solved by Cosmos or Polkadot when necessary.

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lolisakirisame 12 hs ago

> As a first mover and innovator in stablecoins

Dao is great, but definitely not a first mover. There is also no need to frame ourselves as first movers - a lot of first mover dont make it - PARC, AOL, Yahoo, etc

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Lifeofahero 8 hs ago

>a lot of first mover dont make it - PARC, AOL, Yahoo, etc The focus is really on executing MCD to ensure that Dai is the dominant stablecoin. I wouldn't nitpick these little things, the team has the right long term approach.

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tarpmaster 8 hs ago

Definitely IS a first mover. First to launch a decentralized stablecoin. By the way, there is a whole credit system associated with it.

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lolisakirisame 4 hs ago

bitcny/nubit is both 3 yrs old. the latter one fail though, but it is way earlier then dai. mcd is new, but that I count as innovation.

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o1d0r 1 - 2 year account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. 12 hs ago

...loading up my bags! MKR & DAI The most useful application in the space to further use cases for crypto. love makerdao. Watch your cdp's boys

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[deleted] 12 hs ago

[deleted]

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sysaddict WARNING: 6 - 7 years account age. 0 - 22 comment k 12 hs ago

DAI will stay at 1 USD

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o1d0r 1 - 2 year account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. 12 hs ago

Can't wait for multi collateral dai.

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cyounessi 12 hs ago

Ah my bad I misread your original comment.

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classic_katapult 12 hs ago

At what price did Andreessen Horowitz buy in? Also $250 like Az16z?

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BankerWhoLeavesAt420 11 hs ago

at a 25% market price discount, apparently

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Farfooz 5 - 6 years account age. 300 - 600 comment karma. 11 hs ago

A16z is the same as Andreessen Horowitz, they aren’t two different VCs

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classic_katapult 9 hs ago

Thx

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ckd001 13 hs ago

Actually paying $250 when the market price is $450 is a scandal. I would have turned it around on them and sold the 30k to them at market (similar cash in) then paid them with MKR at market prices for specific legal, regulatory, and political lobbying services provided - tied to concrete milestones and all that. you could easily have hired top lawyers, marketers and lobbyists for far less than $15m. Anyway, don’t want to rain on your parade - but i hope you have contractual commitments to these services, and clawbacks in case they don’t deliver

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Rune4444 12 hs ago

\>you could easily have hired top lawyers, marketers and lobbyists We are also hiring top talent, in conjunction with this deal and others like it. What's great about deals like these is that the resources come as a full package, so they don't take significant onboarding overhead and can be done in parallel with our internal buildout. It's about firing on all cylinders and being able to strike with full force at the critical moment when multi collateral dai is done and our first mover advantage as an ethereum based decentralized stablecoin is at it highest. We'll only really get one chance to either make it or break it, and if we succeed in reaching critical mass our position will be much more secure in the future. You also have to consider that regulation is both the biggest threat and biggest opportunity we're facing, that will open all doors for us if we navigate it right, or destroy our potential to disrupt enterprise if handled wrong. With that in mind it's a simple question: do you want to pay the price it costs to get the absolute best, or not? Lets be clear, there is no other person in the world that is better positioned to facilitate the regulatory dialogue for crypto projects - Katie Haun was the head of the federal governments first crypto task force, among many other things. There is just no one else with a similar profile. We've thoroughly researched this, and our conclusion is that she's the best. To me it is clear that given this is our biggest challenge and threat, and given that we have such a strong leadership position in all other fields but regulation, there is no reason to compromise.

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rektisme 4 hs ago

I admire the sense of urgency and the laser-like focus displayed here. I just hope those vultures (Polychain and Az16) don't take you out for a ride. Basis, Maker, Reserve, TrustToken, etc. they all look the same to them... just a means to an end. They will throw anybody under the bus in favor of the next new shiny thing that makes their pocketbooks happy.

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Lifeofahero 2 hs ago

Those “vultures” you’re talking about are: 1. Katie Haun 2. Jesse Walden 3. Olaf Carlson-Wee 4. Chris Dixon 5. Nick Tomaino Have you watched any videos on these people? They seem like good people to me. As far as shiny things go, well duh. They’re investors with excess capital and they’ll invest in similar projects like Basis, however, even Joey Krug said Maker is farther ahead then anyone else at the moment on crypto trader. IMO Maker is best positioned to win the stablecoin market. Let’s see what happens.

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SilentGaucho 7 hs ago

A well thought out and rational explanation. She is indeed one of the top names for regulatory expertise in the space. Maker proves it is top notch once again. Hopefully this provides all the runway the foundation needs to get MCD to main net. Good luck, and thanks for the time explaining your actions!

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Parapas 11 hs ago

Do the fondation will add an freeze asset function in the dai smart contract if regulators ask for it? I hope not...

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classic_katapult 12 hs ago

Power = laughably easy to get wealthy. But we're not here to change that structure, are we?

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lazyj2020 13 hs ago

the hits just keep coming for MKR!!!

Also, join us in /r/MakerDAO and on https://chat.makerdao.com to learn more and get involved, its a great community and a great project!

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drr30 Developer 8 hs ago

I'm not an MKR holder but as a holder of DAI during the dump I say thanks to the team and community for building such an awesome and reliable system!

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Goldman- 10 hs ago

I'd really like to see discord channel for makerdao, lot more accessible.

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3x3q 3 - 4 years account age. 400 - 1000 comment karma. 9 hs ago

I'd also love to see a Discord channel for MakerDAO.

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reterical Gentleman, Scholar 13 hs ago

Second this. I've been a fan (and investor) for about two years now. They consistently deliver.

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Cryptossi Redditor for 8 months. 13 hs ago

I haven't heard of MakerDAO or Andreessen Horowitz before, but I'm definitely going to spend the next couple of hours looking into them, that is massive news!

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almondicecream Lover 9 hs ago

AH is one of the most respected and prestigious vc funds. Top tier. VC firms do more than give cash. They give connections. Look at the cv of the person who signed them: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/faculty/kathryn-haun

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sreaka 13 hs ago

Marc Andreessen is a big name in the silicon valley. Founded Mosaic (basically the first web browser) and Netscape. He's been very successful in the VC world and his investments are heavily vetted and typically disruptive.

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Cryptossi Redditor for 8 months. 12 hs ago

Awesome think I might need to start following him and definitely take a closer look at MakerDao.

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robot_on_acid 3 - 4 years account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. 9 hs ago

They have a really good podcast titled a16z too. It’s all things VC, but they regularly talk crypto. I found out about Ethereum through their podcast towards the end of 2015

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Goldman- 10 hs ago

MakerDao and Dai really is the sleeping beauty of Eth. It's hard to grasp at once, just like blockchain and eth as a technology but once you do and start to think further, you are ready to put down 15 millions too, if you'd have as much to invest.  Now with multi collateral on its way ( already on testnet ) and this investment, we will begin to see the big wheels turning and everyone will know what Dai is.  

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sandalguy89 4 - 5 years account age. 63 - 125 comment karma. 10 hs ago

Follow Ben Evans newsletter. Ben-evans.com

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alkalinegs 13 hs ago

how can you know if „that is massive news“ if you never heard about maker or horowitz?

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Cryptossi Redditor for 8 months. 13 hs ago

Well a $15m investment in a relatively lesser know Blockchain project normally catches your eye!

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zaphod42 Developer 13 hs ago

MakerDAO is really interesting. Multi collateral DAI is coming soon!

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Rune4444 13 hs ago

This is a really big deal for us because it gives us the best possible tools for tackling the main problem we're facing: Regulation. With Katie Hauns insight from her time as a federal prosecutor focused on cryptocurrencies, we have crafted a very strong plan for getting full clarity about our legal status in the US with the federal agencies that are relevant for the kind of financial activity Maker enables. Getting our house in order from a US regulatory standpoint is a crucial step that will open up major partnerships with established American enterprises.

Additionally there's also the added benefit of A16Zs marketing and business development teams that we can leverage as a force multiplier for our inhouse marketing and BD teams, however we consider this to be secondary to the value of having Katie Haun as an advocate for the project, because she is the best when it comes to dealing with regulatory agencies relevant to cryptocurrencies.

It's because of this major intangible value add that we were willing to sell such a large stake, and give a significant rebate from the market price at the time of the deal.

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crandallberries 13 hs ago

This is definitely very exciting! I am not complaining about any 'lack of transparency' because it's not like the mkr holders are well organized enough to strike deals at this point anyways, plus the foundation is doing a fantastic job... but it would be nice to have a more clear definition of what the foundation's role is. I know the foundation proposal set some direction, but I think a list of some of the direct intentions of the foundation could be nice, along with which functions and intended to be passed to mkr holders first on the 'gradual decentralization' timeline. I'm loving watching Maker mature.

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crandallberries 13 hs ago

It's an interesting dilemma - mkr holders are supposed to be in charge - but the foundation are really the only people in the position to make a deal like this - I honestly don't know how a distributed group of mkr holders could ever perform these kinds of functions - maybe there needs to be some sort of vote that says 'we the mkr holders give the foundation authority to make business deals and distribute up to X amount of mkr' as well as outline other actions mkr holders give the foundation 'permission' to do

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CMDRTrickster4 10 hs ago

I am sure, as soon as there is an easy to use interface to stake/vote more of those decisions will be made by the token holders. For now there was 1 Vote by MKR holders, and it was done by a chosen few of "technicaly able" holders.

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directdirt 7 hs ago

There was another vote already which was open to everyone. The governance dashboard is live at https://vote.makerdao.com

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lazerswimmer 12 hs ago

>It's an interesting dilemma - mkr holders are supposed to be in charge - but the foundation are really the only people in the position to make a deal like this - I honestly don't know how a distributed group of mkr holders could ever perform these kinds of functions - maybe there needs to be some sort of vote that says 'we the mkr holders give the foundation authority to make business deals and distribute up to X amount of mkr' as well as outline other actions mkr holders give the foundation 'permission' to do we are so early on in the project that we have to trust the mkr team and the foundation

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crandallberries 12 hs ago

Totally agree, I just think it would be helpful to have the relationship between the foundation and mkr holders more clearly defined

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Rune4444 11 hs ago

The foundation proposal was an attempt to start the dialogue about the foundations role in the short run and in the long run. Our focus is on shipping MCD, but once it's out we will revisit the role of community governance and the foundation. In general the community is only meant to be responsible for the long run risk governance of the system. As you're pointing out yourself, it is simply not possible for a decentralized community to bootstrap a fintech product from scratch with the flexibility required to compete in the marketplace. However as we grow bigger, it will gradually be possible to let the community use Maker governance to support the foundation in various development and adoption roles, and eventually the foundation will be eclipsed by companies and individuals in the community that are incentivized to sell dai-enabled products that indirectly result in dai adoption.

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crandallberries 11 hs ago

Thanks Rune! It's exciting to see the progress you are making, and obviously MCD has been consuming a lot of resources! I am not in the camp of people that think just because they own .23 mkr they should have been texted about each business deal... I do think it would be helpful to have a blog post defining the roles so that mkr holders are better informed of what their role is in the system in order for mkr to be optimally beneficial. I think formalizing the relationship between mkr holders and the foundation is the next step after setting the philosophical direction of the foundation in the last vote.

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catfoodlover 13 hs ago

This is really great news Rune! And the rebate was not even that high - USD 250 per MKR is totally reasonable considering what a16z can bring to the table. Also good news for the whole of crypto - big players are still interested! Next challenge will be on the team: how to sensible spend that much money (plus the swimmingpool you already had) in a sensible way? Major congrats + hugs for the whole team!

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TheBuddha777 12310 karma | Karma CC: 1105 14 hs ago

Nice. That's a pretty big deal.

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OrangeLambo 14 hs ago

They got a good deal!

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happyyellowball Gentleman 14 hs ago

HUGE!

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JakubH 8 hs ago

he paid 60 cents on dollar agree, huge win for him already

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Here's why Loom Network has been hyper-focused on blockchain games...

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spucci 5 hs ago

Agreed. :)

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bret_0 1 - 2 year account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. 7 hs ago

2 reasons I’m bullish ,

I have some eth
I want it to increase in value because lambos

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oldskool47 DigixGlobal fan 8 hs ago

Well written, Lane!

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live_the_search Redditor for 5 months. 12 hs ago

I enjoyed the article. Thanks for sharing.

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datysdal 13 hs ago

A few more reasons in this Response:

@VitalikButerin/missed-a-few-that-im-proud-of-bc37226dffdf">https://medium.com/@VitalikButerin/missed-a-few-that-im-proud-of-bc37226dffdf

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oldskool47 DigixGlobal fan 8 hs ago

Excellent. Upvote this

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MilkDudDandy Redditor for 10 months. 13 hs ago

This went very well with my coffee. Many thanks.

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WendyWilson05 Redditor for 8 months. 14 hs ago

Common ethereum!

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JohnnyLingoMusic Believer 15 hs ago

hellz yea, always best to get perspective people in the thick of it

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spacedv Flippening 17 hs ago

What are those 'Ethereum killers' launching in the following months?

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JaleDarvis Redditor for 4 months. 31 mins ago

Hashgraph

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BuckfutterB 4 hs ago

I don't see any 'Ethereum killers'. The roadmap will keep ETH competitive in the future. I don't see any other platform growing beyond the success of something like NEO, which despite having a an actual "economy" of tokens and projects, is still smaller than Cardano and scamcoin er umm EOS.

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kwadrax Redditor for 9 months. 7 hs ago

Not an Ethereum killer but interesting and mainnet in Q1 2019 is www.RChain.coop

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Jackieknows 10 hs ago

SingularDTV will launch its Content Distribution Platform, for example

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skYY7 $10,000 per ETH 2020 16 hs ago

Check Cardano, they even have a whitepaper! /s

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spacedv Flippening 16 hs ago

I think Cardano is one of the smart contract blockchains with the most potential, along with Dfinity. But by the time it's really production ready, Ethereum will probably be way too far ahead. Dfinity on the other hand is so experimental, complex and largely unproven that developers will probably be hesitant to move to it soon. Meanwhile, Ethereum is rapidly improving on all fronts too. Nevertheless buying a little bit of both as a hedge might be a good idea. But I was wondering are there some others the author was talking about? (Tezos isn't even worth mentioning I think.)

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JohnnyLingoMusic Believer 15 hs ago

I call Cardano the Academic Coin. Went through their website and it just sounds like a bunch of college professors creating a blockchain for educational purposes but there's no real world buzz

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okaybody Redditor for 9 months. 13 hs ago

The internet was first introduced for military and academic purposes. Looks what happened to it.

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monero_rs Developer $IPL 15 hs ago

Cardano is a shitcoin.

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spacedv Flippening 12 hs ago

Monero is a shitcoin.

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algar32 11 hs ago

aaaand there goes your credibility

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spacedv Flippening 11 hs ago

So be it. But I don't think there are any standards by which to call something a shitcoin. People just call whatever they don't hold shitcoins. I just chose monero because the dude seemed like a monero shill. That said, Monero has a fundamental problem with scalability resulting from its architecture, and therefore won't be able to establish a network effect. I don't think it will be able to get rid of its volatility well enough either to be a useful currency.

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algar32 11 hs ago

Scalability is a huge issue for XMR. Not different than most other blockchain projects though imo Just in general, you shouldn't call the only digital cash a shitcoin (despite its limitations). I think someday it'll be replaced by something better, but for now it's king

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spacedv Flippening 10 hs ago

I agree really. It's definitely a valuable project, nothing wrong with it. Calling anything a shitcoin should be avoided in general, because it carries absolutely zero information. That's what I should have replied to the monero guy but got tired and annoyed.

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algar32 10 hs ago

Fair enough, I do agree with you. Calling something a shitcoin generally doesn't end in a productive conversation. I guess it's unavoidable on reddit though

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fiah84 17 hs ago

Great article, a nice summary of all the great things happening right now

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chescos 17 hs ago

-5%

im also bullish today

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arsch_loch Redditor for 11 months. 13 hs ago

And we're also attached to BTC again: https://enroyd.com/ETH_Correlations/ :-(

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Randokaz 5 - 6 years account age. 600 - 1000 comment karma. 19 hs ago

Ethereum will always be the first :)

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reterical Gentleman, Scholar Yesterday

Great article.

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jredsama 19 hs ago

Seconded

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izzatmeng Redditor for 6 months. Yesterday

Is there a chance that it will go 13?

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oldskool47 DigixGlobal fan 8 hs ago

Vitalik responded with several more!

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Pontus Lindblom - @ponli137

RT @slushcz: This is huge step for #bitcoin mining and bitcoin security. Finally, your miners will be 💯% under your control and without a risk of vendor lock-in. Congrats to @braiins_systems hardware division! https://t.co/v61wBgq86Y

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Pedro Anderson - @pedro_r_a

RT @slushcz: This is huge step for #bitcoin mining and bitcoin security. Finally, your miners will be 💯% under your control and without a risk of vendor lock-in. Congrats to @braiins_systems hardware division! https://t.co/v61wBgq86Y

101 332

Ragnar Lifthrasir ⚑ - @Ragnarly

RT @slushcz: This is huge step for #bitcoin mining and bitcoin security. Finally, your miners will be 💯% under your control and without a risk of vendor lock-in. Congrats to @braiins_systems hardware division! https://t.co/v61wBgq86Y

93 301

Dan Hedl ⚡️ - @danheld

RT @slushcz: This is huge step for #bitcoin mining and bitcoin security. Finally, your miners will be 💯% under your control and without a risk of vendor lock-in. Congrats to @braiins_systems hardware division! https://t.co/v61wBgq86Y

89 293

Bobby Belev - @bbelev

RT @slushcz: This is huge step for #bitcoin mining and bitcoin security. Finally, your miners will be 💯% under your control and without a risk of vendor lock-in. Congrats to @braiins_systems hardware division! https://t.co/v61wBgq86Y

83 265

Matt Corallo - @TheBlueMatt

RT @slushcz: This is huge step for #bitcoin mining and bitcoin security. Finally, your miners will be 💯% under your control and without a risk of vendor lock-in. Congrats to @braiins_systems hardware division! https://t.co/v61wBgq86Y

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Dennis Parker⚡️ - @Xentagz

RT @braiins_systems: We are proud to announce https://t.co/T6yDfIgraT, the very first #opensource OS for miners ⛏️ which was finally finished during #bh2018! And what's in your #miner? https://t.co/Um2kFie6Fm

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Marty Bent - @MartyBent

RT @braiins_systems: We are proud to announce https://t.co/T6yDfIgraT, the very first #opensource OS for miners ⛏️ which was finally finished during #bh2018! And what's in your #miner? https://t.co/Um2kFie6Fm

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Adam Back - @adam3us

RT @braiins_systems: We are proud to announce https://t.co/T6yDfIgraT, the very first #opensource OS for miners ⛏️ which was finally finished during #bh2018! And what's in your #miner? https://t.co/Um2kFie6Fm

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1

btc-forextrader redditor for 3 months 2 days ago

IMO, this situation and how it was so calmly handled by devs, miners and supporters alike is what makes Bitcoin so special.

1

88Fangtastic 5 months old | Karma CC: 53 2 days ago

Its a shit post period. How does this post help any newbies ? Regardless of what we all think its still a rookie space for the rest. Help rather than spreading horseshit.

0

TemporaryPudding 3 months old | New to crypto 2 days ago

If we want to help newbs we'd shut this useless shithole sub down.

1

MagniGames 12809 karma | Karma CC: 3058 2 days ago

Yes, all bad news is horseshit and fud and we should only talk about good things.. This sub is like the fox news of crypto.. Do you not realize that, had this been exploited, your entire investment could be worth $0? Does that AT ALL bother you??? Christ almighty, you people and your whatabouting will be the downfall of these systems. This would be UNACCEPTABLE had it happened to the thing everyone touts as outdated (visa) yet with bitcoin it's just fud and let's just all pretend nothing bad ever happened.. Are you suggesting we should suppress negative info to try and trick newbies into buying?? No wonder Bitcoin didn't get the damn ETF...

2

88Fangtastic 5 months old | Karma CC: 53 2 days ago

Actually i suggest you learn how to move forward than cry like a bitch on reddit. Make some positive and be happy. Try to enjoy the weekend.

0

higher-plane Negative | 5 months old | Karma CC: 125 BTC: 786 2 days ago

Thanks to the Bitcoin Cash developer who found and discretely disclosed this bug.

Edit: why an I being downvoted for thanking the person who found and responsibly disclosed the bug? Crazy.

17

TechCynical Karma CC: 1223 2 days ago

Cause brigade.

1

MagniGames 12809 karma | Karma CC: 3058 2 days ago

You're being downvoted because this sub is garbage. People only fucking care about bull runs and Lambos anymore, nobody gives a shit about the technology apparently... I really hope there are supporters out there (not on reddit) that don't fall prey to this tribal bullshit...

11

btceacc 11 months old | CC: 1173 karma MIOTA: 2057 karma 2 days ago

Exactly what isn't tribal about your accusatory title?

3

MagniGames 12809 karma | Karma CC: 3058 2 days ago

Now, I know we're all excited for the upcoming bull run, but be careful with downvoting posts like this, This is not "FUD", it's a real, serious problem. There was a network-breaking bug out there for OVER A YEAR that GOT WORSE over time, and developers decided to keep it a secret while they attempted to fix it.. That's SERIOUS..

Not only that, but projects that forked off Bitcoin in that time may also still have this vulnerability..

Luckily nobody discovered it or used it (as far as we know), but to everyone out there yelling "Bitcoin's never had a bug!!!", well, this doesn't look to great does it...

0

Robby16 5 months old | Karma CC: 1841 BTC: 568 2 days ago

Get a clue lol. No, that's standard practise in the security industry for disclosing vulnerabilities. Literally every single company in the world will not disclose discovered vulnerabilities until after they are fixed. Doing otherwise is suicide. Absolutely nothing remotely unprofessional with how they handled it

3

MagniGames 12809 karma | Karma CC: 3058 2 days ago

Funny you tell me to get a clue, so.. why are you using cryptocurrencies then? If you want some private company privately fixing bugs on their private network, then use Visa. We aren't using a product designed by a company, and for that exact reason your response makes no sense.. Bitcoin is owned and operated by it's users, and as such, should be maintained by its users. You want a big group of a few devs making decisions and modifying the whole network? That's what EOS does. Yet this sub shits all over EOS for essentially doing exactly what Btc did here...

0

grumpyfrench 10875 karma | Karma CC: 801 NANO: 367 Yesterday

Agree

1

XavierFartboner Karma CC: 189 2 days ago

lol "bitcoin core". I'm no bitcoin fan either, but come on man. It's just bitcoin.

1

TechCynical Karma CC: 1223 2 days ago

Dumbass it affected bitcoin core and I believe bitcoin ABC.

0

higher-plane Negative | 5 months old | Karma CC: 125 BTC: 786 2 days ago

It was quite literally a "Bitcoin Core" bug. https://bitcoincore.org/en/2018/09/20/notice/

2

[deleted] 2 days ago

>There was a network-breaking bug out there for OVER A YEAR that GOT WORSE over time, and developers decided to keep it a secret while they attempted to fix it.. That's SERIOUS.. The fact that you think developers should have made this exploit public makes me seriously doubt your intelligence.

15

MagniGames 12809 karma | Karma CC: 3058 2 days ago

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't realize that a central entity controlled bitcoin. Oh wait, they don't, it's public, and we all develop it.. This fucking sub is a joke...

0

[deleted] 2 days ago

>we all develop it you must have a very loose definition of "develop". if your name isn't on a repo or two, you aren't a BTC/crypto developer. you are a BTC/crypto user. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with a few developers discovering an exploit that is unknown to the public and quietly fixing it instead of making a big federal case about it.

5

btc-reddit 2 days ago

This report should be updated to clearly state who found this bug (awemany of BU) and that he quickly and responsibly disclosed it and properly to acknowledge that.

0

cheezbeans redditor for 7 weeks 2 days ago

This is actually scary, there needs to be ways to protect and reassurevpeople they’re not going to lose everything. What if theres another serious bug they havent found yet and a malicious hacker finds it first?

0

ISNT_A_ROBOT 2 days ago

You can say the same thing about every major financial institution in the world.

0

[deleted] 2 days ago

This is never going to change. Get comfortable with it.

5

Bitcoin_21 redditor for 3 months 2 days ago

the bug finder was anonymous and no affiliation with either BTC or BCH cited, it was also independently found by a dev called earlz.

0

[deleted] 2 days ago

We know that it was awemany of BU. Why can’t that be positively acknowledged ? earlz found it later according to the published timeline, and probably because the first DOS element lead directly to the inflation issue.

2

imbalancewoo 2 days ago

"According to Theymos: "Even if the bug had been exploited to its full extent, the theoretical damage to stored funds would have been rolled back."

Rolling back the chain like DAO? Oh, it's okay when bitcoin does it, right? :)

0

shit_frak_a_rando 2 days ago

DAO had an error in private contact code, which is what made it controversial, while this is a bug in Bitcoin itself.

2

Jay27 2 days ago

No, rolled back because the longest chain is the valid one. The invalid, inflated chain, would not have been kept after the fix. The DAO happened due to a malicious dev making perfectly valid and legal use of Eth's scripting language.

4

po00on 2 days ago

How would the chain be 'rolled back', in this circumstance ?

2

theymos 2 days ago

The most important difference is that the DAO situation was a bailout of a private organization and a deviation from expected system behavior, whereas in this case an unexpected bug in the system would be uncontroversially undone. Nobody on Earth is going to seriously suggest that because of this bug, Bitcoin should now allow anyone to print as much BTC as they want. Similarly, if a bug in Script was found which allowed you to spend anyone's BTC, and this was exploited, then it would be totally justified to undo all of those theft transactions. You want to minimize this sort of manual intervention, firstly because it's just very disruptive, and secondly because in large part the point of Bitcoin is to remove fallible humans from this stuff. But economics/money is an inherently human thing, and furthermore nobody knows how to make bug-free software yet, so from time to time these sorts of manual adjustments have been and will continue to be necessary. The ability to make manual changes is what allows us to say that Bitcoin isn't ruled by miners. If "the code was king", then miners could softfork in anything they wanted (including certain types of evil denial-of-service+sidechain schemes which could be viewed as subsidy increases), and Bitcoin absolutely would be ruled by miners. This *isn't* the case only because we can hardfork to a different PoW in the event of such an attack by miners. --- A less philosophically-important but more practically-important difference between this and the DAO incident is that this was a softfork, so: * It has very clear precedent in the value overflow incident, which was a similar bug resolved in a similar softfork, though in that case some blocks were *actually* deleted / rolled back. * Only a majority of miners and/or an economic supermajority need to upgrade in order for everyone to be protected. You don't need *literally everyone* to upgrade. * In the aftermath of an attack, the end result would look like a long reorg, which is within the realm of expected system behavior. Risk is related to number of confirmations, in the end you get a consistent block chain with consistent transaction chains, etc.

14

alsomahler 2 days ago

The Ethereum controversy wasn't created by rolling back the chain. That was a fork to a new state and it left history intact. I think Theymos here really means rollback of history.

2

AdvancedExpert8 2 days ago

It sure is.

0

PurplePineapple12 redditor for 7 weeks 3 days ago

I wish it was exploited i want the price to crash so i can accumulate

0

invisibleblackcoat redditor for 2 days 3 days ago

Why don’t u give us ur Bitcoin?

2

Raiforst 3 days ago

Did you stop for a second to think how stupid your comment is?

5

artificintel 3 days ago

Did you stop for a second to think how unnecessarily aggressive your comment to his comment is?

0

Raiforst 3 days ago

Yeah, I feel bad, sorry.

3

artificintel 2 days ago

Sorry.

1

dito67 redditor for 3 weeks 3 days ago

Let see how long will it take for this post to get censored since r/bitcoin made a reputation of being the most censored place in all history

0

suchClouds 2 days ago

If there was a list of the [50 most heavily moderated subreddits](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/9huvwc/oc_the_top_50_subreddits_in_july_2018_with_the/) made by sampling the data, and this one wasn't on it; would that convince you otherwise?

2

dito67 redditor for 3 weeks 2 days ago

Yea yea good try, no one cares(and i mean sane people) about ur shitty list

1

suchClouds 2 days ago

Cool. Is there any other objective data you'd like to disagree with?

0

dito67 redditor for 3 weeks 2 days ago

Yes i m baffled how fake this thing is, trying to show everyone there is no censorship and core devs and blockstream r the best and divine beings in all existence

2

trentinparadise 2 days ago

>the most censored place in all history That is the most ridiculous statement I have seen for a long time 

9

dito67 redditor for 3 weeks 2 days ago

Because it is dumbass

0

typtyphus 2 days ago

it's still up. And so is the Cringe Cruise debate.

1

dito67 redditor for 3 weeks 2 days ago

Yea its very sad it is not censored even now

0

S_Lowry 3 days ago

Not as censored as the other sub though.

1

dito67 redditor for 3 weeks 2 days ago

Yea r/bitcoin should learn something from shitty country like china a thing about censorship

2

DesignerAccount 3 days ago

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not, but the censorship you refer to I call moderation, and I'm very glad mods to enforce it strictly. (Not strict enough, sometimes, imo.) Makes the conversations around here much more pleasant and, mostly, about Bitcoin. shitcoins are not welcome here, and neither are their shills. Btw, keep talking about censorship... it's a great way to get banned. After a while, it just gets annoying, having to explain moderation is not censorship.

5

dito67 redditor for 3 weeks 3 days ago

sadly that what happens when u put brainless incompetent mods in charge since they r too dumb to even show their vileness

0

AdvancedExpert8 2 days ago

Thats the sad thing about bcashers, you just come in here to talk about censorship and not the actual problem. You're equivalent to saying Thanks Obama whenever something bad happens.

5

dito67 redditor for 3 weeks 2 days ago

r u even capable of talking about the actual problem mr fake advancedexpert a tiny typical troll

1

Kalin101 2 days ago

Are you even capable of typing?

3

dito67 redditor for 3 weeks 2 days ago

Not so sure, what about u another obvious troll

1

Kalin101 2 days ago

Get a life dude.

3

typtyphus 2 days ago

that's because technical subjects are foreign language to them.

1

Mr_Vitriol redditor for 6 weeks 3 days ago

Keep your wrongthink out of here!

0

dito67 redditor for 3 weeks 3 days ago

Oh still not censored, wish i could see the concept of vile censorship in all history of this world a little bit

0

AdvancedExpert8 2 days ago

Should check out China they'll show you true censorship.

1

dito67 redditor for 3 weeks 2 days ago

Saddly r/bitcoin can't even learn from that shitty country on how to do proper censorship

1

diamondcuts17765 redditor for 3 months 3 days ago

Damn. Thankfully this was caught by one of the good guys

13

ABitcoinAllBot 3 days ago

Here is the link to the original comment thread. Or you can comment here to start a discussion. Author: LongHash

1

15 2

abc2jb 19 hs ago

VeChain is already doing batched transactions (MMP) at 500 tx/s on their mainnet.

1

ethereumfrenzy 1 - 2 years account age. 200 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

Can somebody summarize what it says ? I understand transactions could be batched together more efficiently. Can this work with transactions going to many different adressed, or just if those go ti the same contract / address ?

1

domukas Yesterday

is there an estimation date for casper?

1

sebastienlavalliere 1 - 2 year account age. 35 - 100 comment karma. Yesterday

2019, but no date confirmed.

1

IllegalAlien333 2 days ago

500tx/sec...really that's it? That's the "potential" geez, bummer.

0

Galveira 2 days ago

One layer 2 solution is to have subchains that handle their own transactions. So no, the entire ethereum network isn't going to be limited to 500 tx/sec.

5

IllegalAlien333 2 days ago

so what is the potential with subchains that max out at 500tx/sec?

0

Galveira 2 days ago

subchains aren't limited in the same way the ethereum network is. Centralized chains are possible and preferable in certain situations, as long as the initial assets are created on the mainnet first.

2

IllegalAlien333 2 days ago

So in essence a linnked centralized chain built on ETH can handle the transactions needed for a popular dapp?

0

Galveira 2 days ago

That's one solution, yes.

2

Theft_Via_Taxation 2 days ago

If people were to use this option, their transactions would be anonymous correct? That would be awesome if anonymity was the default

15

symeof Developer 2 days ago

No, they would still not be anonymous as the original signature itself is not anonymous. But the system could potentially be evolved to be anonymous, but that would require a lot more work than this.

1

vbuterin Ethereum - Vitalik Buterin 2 days ago

No, they would not. SNARKs are used here for scalability, not privacy. Unfortunately adding strong privacy into this scheme would likely reduce gas efficiency by ~8x. Though that may be not that bad, given that strong privacy has efficiency tradeoffs around that level no matter what you do.

33

lambeingsarcastic 2 days ago

I'm sorry if this is a dumb question but is that because you would need to add more to the blockchain to implement strong privacy and gas usage is proportional to the size of the data written to the blockchain?

5

vbuterin Ethereum - Vitalik Buterin 2 days ago

> I'm sorry if this is a dumb question but is that because you would need to add more to the blockchain to implement strong privacy and gas usage is proportional to the size of the data written to the blockchain? It's because for strong privacy, the indices and transaction amounts would need to be "encrypted", and an encrypted value would need to be 32 bytes. Though maybe it's possible to make it be 32 bytes for the entire data, in which case the complexity would be pushed into the SNARK proof computation.

15

ericdevice 2 days ago

I wonder if the gov would not like this

1

iamtheballoonman 1 - 2 year account age. 35 - 100 comment karma. 2 days ago

I’d anticipate they wouldn’t, but... oh well. I do ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

6

BGoodej 2 days ago

It would be fantastic if this could be done while waiting for casper.

16

symeof Developer 2 days ago

This only applies for transactions to the same contract. So unless you have some dominant smart contract(s), this provides little benefits in total gas savings overall.

1

Heringsalat100 Redditor for 10 months. 2 days ago

It is only meant for simple asset transfers like tokens. Nevertheless it is very exciting!

20

kwadrax Redditor for 9 months. 2 days ago

Aren't these like the (vast) majority?

8

Heringsalat100 Redditor for 10 months. 2 days ago

At the current time I would say yes. Only as an additional information because of the title of the post ;).

1

lazyj2020 2 days ago

yes

5

saddit42 2 days ago

Nice in theory, but is it really expected to happen before Shasper?

10

miker397 2 days ago

So what are the downsides to this as a stop gap before Casper+Sharding arrive?

5

LarsPensjo 2 days ago

>Also, this is not a pivot, it's a layer 2 along with all the other layer 2's. If so, this is orthogonal to Casper and Sharding.

7

MilkDudDandy 2 days ago

or·thog·o·nal ôrˈTHäɡənl/Submit adjective 1. of or involving right angles; at right angles. 2. **STATISTICS (of variates) statistically independent.**

2

nootropicat 2 days ago

It's a very old idea, iirc older than bitcoin (only theoretical then). The main problem was always proving performance and trusted setup. Public data arguably makes multiparty trusted setup not a big issue. All currently practical solutions are also not quantum secure.

It also makes sharding pointless, as all scaling problems reduce to relatively trivial decentralized storage with many existing solutions. I hope this doesn't become yet another pivot (like beacon chain from hybrid PoS)...

30

vbuterin Just some guy 2 days ago

I would argue proving performance is not a big deal in the long run; there have been large gains recently now that SNARK/STARKs are The Big New Thing, and if there's usage we can outsource proof generation to the mining industry and their GPU farms. And it's not true that it "reduces to decentralized storage"; it reduces to _scalable validation of data availability_, which is still a hard problem and requires some kind of "sharded" setup to solve. Also, this is not a pivot, it's a layer 2 along with all the other layer 2's.

63

nootropicat 2 days ago

>I would argue proving performance is not a big deal in the long run Do you know how fast recursive zk-snark validation is now, on the bls12 curve (the one zcash switches to)? Is it reasonably practical now? >And it's not true that it "reduces to decentralized storage"; it reduces to scalable validation of data availability, which is still a hard problem Zk-snarks allow every shard validator to prove that he indeed does have the entire required state. Then the security assumption becomes that for some n, n validators aren't going to cooperate and hide the data from the public. Validators can be shuffled. What's the hard problem in this design? Zk-snarks also allow using rateless erasure codes for much better transmission, as every part can be proven to be correct. Unless it's in the multiple TB I don't see a reason for sharding at all.

12

vbuterin Just some guy 2 days ago

> Unless it's in the multiple TB I don't see a reason for sharding at all. Currently the ethereum blockchain's data rate is ~25 kb per 15 sec, or ~50 GB per year. If we want to increase capacity by a factor of 1000, that becomes 50 TB per year. With the optimizations described here, that could go down to ~5 TB, but then if we have that much scalability we may as well include strong privacy support, which would push the numbers back up to ~50 TB. So yes, we are interested in literally scaling the blockchain to multiple terabytes.

16

Hefhsdhbfhsf Yesterday

At what point in the Ethereum roadmap would there be an implementation of "rent"? I know you discussed this as another strategy to mitigate the scaling effects on decentralization.

1

nootropicat 2 days ago

Fair enough. I would consider 2TB per validator to be the cutoff between high end pc and servers, as 2TB appears to be the maximum size of consumer versions of NVMe SSDs.

7

vbuterin Just some guy 2 days ago

> Then the security assumption becomes that for some n, n validators aren't going to cooperate and hide the data from the public. Validators can be shuffled. What's the hard problem in this design? This requires every validator to actually have all the data. The design you *could* have is to require randomly sampled subsets of validators to prove ownership of different subsets of data, but then that *is* sharding.

26

FreeFactoid 2 days ago

Woohoo! Thank you VB🙏

5

MilkDudDandy Redditor for 10 months. 2 days ago

Starin' up straight in the face!!

6

phatalerror Bull 2 days ago

open your mouth, close your eyes!

2

seb400_8 2 days ago

Holy shit. Finaly!

0

CommonMisspellingBot 2 days ago

Hey, seb400\_8, just a quick heads-up: **finaly** is actually spelled **finally**. You can remember it by **two ls**. Have a nice day! ^^^^The ^^^^parent ^^^^commenter ^^^^can ^^^^reply ^^^^with ^^^^'delete' ^^^^to ^^^^delete ^^^^this ^^^^comment.

9

seb400_8 2 days ago

Keyboard warrior! 🙃

0

happyyellowball Gentleman 2 days ago

sounds like a game changer until casper imo... i am not that technically inclined though

35

blackout24 2 days ago

Does Vitalik even sleep or go on vacation from time to time? By the time I finished reading one of his posts there is already another one.

55

CrystalETH_ 2 days ago

He has his long vacation on planet earth