Token Daily

exoendo 3 days ago

Reeeeeee i can’t handle a site that doesn’t censor opinions I don’t like reeee

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Sewblon 3 days ago

Given that social media is practically a public utility, I think it is worth considering more aggressive strategies, including government subsidies. The government already subsidizes energy exploration, agriculture and other economic activities that the country considers to be a priority, and it is not crazy to imagine that civically responsible social media may be essential to the future of the country. The subsidies might come in the form of research funding, capital for startups, tax breaks and the like.

Pretty much any economist will tell you that subsidizing agriculture is stupid. U.S. agriculture subsidies are what destroyed Somalia's agriculture sector.
Internet companies all ready pay less in taxes than companies in fields like retail outlets and mining. So they are the last people we should subsidize.

If I consider Google, Amazon and Facebook purely in investment terms, I cannot help but be impressed by the brilliant way they have executed their business plans. The problem is unintended consequences, which are more numerous and severe than we can afford. Google and Facebook are artificially profitable because they do not pay for the damage they cause.

That is an argument for taxing social media, not subsidizing it.

If you subsidize something, you get more of it. You don't identify something as the problem, then demand more of it, unless you are a very silly person.

Democracy depends on shared facts and values. It depends on deliberation and the rule of law. It depends on having a free press and other countervailing forces to hold the powerful accountable. Facebook (along with Google and Twitter) has undercut the free press from two directions: it has eroded the economics of journalism and then overwhelmed it with disinformation. On Facebook, information and disinformation look the same; the only difference is that disinformation generates more revenue, so it gets better treatment. To Facebook, facts are not an absolute; they are a choice to be left initially to users and their friends but then magnified by algorithms to promote engagement. In the same vein, Facebook’s algorithms promote extreme messages over neutral ones, which can elevate disinformation over information, conspiracy theories over facts. Like-minded people can share their views, but they can also block out any fact or perspective with which they disagree.

Democracy doesn't actually rely on shared facts and values. Most people just take their political opinions from the leadership of whatever group they are a part of. "Democracy for Realists." by Christopher Atchins.

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icheezy 3 days ago

Oof that was a hard read for me. How long are we expected to ignore this willful-ignorance-I-am-really-a-good-person BS? The writing was ALWAYS on the wall Robert, and you missed it because you are greedy too

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Khashoggis-Thumbs 3 days ago

> My criticism of the company is a matter of principle, and owning shares is a good way to make that point. Selling them is a better way, Robert.

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mdcd4u2c 3 days ago

He actually has a point. For a major shareholder to be writing something like this raises more eyebrows because it's from within the ranks. If it was just some other venture capital guy, no one would pay attention. He has been talking about this in various interviews over the past few years, even before the election I believe.

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e40 3 days ago

So many words to say Mark Zuckerberg is a greedy asshole that only cares about amassing a fortune at the expense of anyone or anything. I mean, we know people have died. If that wasn't enough to force him into action then nothing will.

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MrSparks4 3 days ago

There's no way to vote him out of his position of causing harm. The world has to suffer with hundred of millions if not billions of people affected by literally one person's greed. I can't believe it's legal for him to be so destructive in the world and there's no real reppercussions we can do to him in the US

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mctoasterson 3 days ago

You can vote with your wallet and divest from his shitty platform and related products. Several million Americans deleting their Facebook accounts will hurt him and decrease his net worth.

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lollygagme 2 days ago

+ instagram I'd say about half of my peer group (early 30's, professionals, urban) have deleted facebook in the past 2 years which is GREAT!... except that everyone went to instagram instead. I'm not sure if people still don't realize they're the same or if they're in denial about it.

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mayhym 3 days ago

Activist investors.

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potatoyogurt 3 days ago

That's basically impossible in Facebook's case. >If you're hopeful that Facebook's shareholders will rise up and force change in the way the social media company manages itself, or even force change in management, forget about it. >Founder Mark Zuckerberg has assured that won't happen. >That's because Zuckerberg owns the majority of the voting rights to the company. Facebook's Class B shares, controlled by Zuckerberg and a small group of insiders, has about 18 percent of the shares. But their Class B shares have 10 votes per share while the Class A shares that trade have only one vote per share. >The net effect: Zuckerberg and a small group of insiders control almost 70 percent of the voting shares in Facebook. Zuckerberg himself controls nearly 60 percent of the stock. Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/20/shareholders-wont-force-zuckerbergs-hand-in-facebook-management.html

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Foxtrot56 3 days ago

Activist investors rarely try to change things to be more ethical, it's all about money.

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mayhym 3 days ago

Agreed but pressure on advertisers will cause Facebook to censor more which will cause backlash from users and an exodus which reduces profits which will cause movement from the company.

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SomethingWitty2222 3 days ago

Isn't that what America is all about? If you put any sort of roadblock in from of amassing a fortune at the expense of anything else, half the country will immediately erupt.

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tachyonburst 4 days ago

Democracy depends on shared facts and values. It depends on deliberation and the rule of law. It depends on having a free press and other countervailing forces to hold the powerful accountable. Facebook (along with Google and Twitter) has undercut the free press from two directions: it has eroded the economics of journalism and then overwhelmed it with disinformation.

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reach4thelaser5 5 days ago

Remind me never to hire this guy as a mentor. Doesn’t matter what’s happening at Facebook. If someone hires you as a mentor then it’s a personal and confidential relationship. You keep your mouth shut.

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rws8w4 6 days ago

TLDR: Evangelist makes excuses for Mark Z.

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VRMilk DK1; 3Sensors; OpenXR info- https://youtu.be/U-CpA 6 days ago

tldr summary? Doesn't appear to have any mentions of VR.

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TheGreatLostCharactr Vive/PSVR/Odyssey+/Pimax 5k KS 6 days ago

It’s a long article. I’m not through it yet. But it’s pretty disturbing.

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VRMilk DK1; 3Sensors; OpenXR info- https://youtu.be/U-CpA 6 days ago

Specifically for VR (given this is a VR sub), what makes you say that cf. Valve, Microsoft, or Alphabet?

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TheGreatLostCharactr Vive/PSVR/Odyssey+/Pimax 5k KS 6 days ago

They don't own Facebook, a company designed from the ground up to manipulate you into helping them manipulate you better. > From late 2012 to 2017, Facebook perfected a new idea–growth hacking–where it experimented constantly with algorithms, new data types and small changes in design, measuring everything. Growth hacking enabled Facebook to monetize its oceans of data so effectively that growth-hacking metrics blocked out all other considerations. In the world of growth hacking, users are a metric, not people. Every action a user took gave Facebook a better understanding of that user–and of that user’s friends–enabling the company to make tiny “improvements” in the user experience every day, which is to say it got better at manipulating the attention of users. Any advertiser could buy access to that attention. The Russians took full advantage. If civic responsibility ever came up in Facebook’s internal conversations, I can see no evidence of it. It's next level fucked up is what it is.

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VRMilk DK1; 3Sensors; OpenXR info- https://youtu.be/U-CpA 6 days ago

That's definitely a bit messed up, but it's not like Valve and other don't have psychologists on staff to help manipulate users too. For example, the data I last recall reading about Steam (the sole source of steamVR, which is the requirement for Vive and mainstay for WMR) was all about monthly etc active users, and IIRC they were quite focused on social media aspects of their platform. I guess I'm trying to say people should maybe be looking towards DRM-free and open-source options, rather than Valve, Microsoft, or Facebook.

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evangellydonut 6 days ago

Yahoo tried to be both a media company and a technology company and look what happened to them. Facebook tried to stay true to being a technology company and now getting the short end of the stick. I'm not defending Zuck, just my 2c on how things got to where it is today. I was peeved when FB took away the option to sort news feed by date rather than by their algorithm, but I put up with it only because at least I had the option to turn off all data-sharing with 3rd party apps. Been off of FB for 3 years now and don't regret it.

Without a full understanding of what the problem is and how to fix it, with the entire board in agreement, a new CEO will not fix the problem (just like Yahoo). Eventually, more likely than not, Zuck will come back years later and face the same problems again without a solution. Starbucks and Apple's returning founder were able to fully execute their vision upon return with board support.

A tangent: When Google's founders took control, became more profit driven and lost much of its mission, it hasn't been the same company. There is no free lunch.

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_the_golden_rule_ 6 days ago

An interesting article, but he's giving Facebook a little too much credit. People want to be polarized, and though I believe that social media does amplify this, it would be mistaken to think that Facebook is the cause of it. If no echo chambers exist, people will find or build them.

Still, Facebook is definitely a piece of shit company (like Google), that is an assault on privacy and identity.

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dekanger 6 days ago

Before long, Facebook was spying on everyone, including people who do not use Facebook. Unfortunately for users, Facebook failed to safeguard that data. Facebook sometimes traded the data to get better business deals.

So let's see here - people who never even used Facebook and never entered into a user agreement had their data stolen and then resold by Facebook.

So why aren't these execs behind bars right now?

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gordokc 5 days ago

Yes and FB did it by preloaded apps on smartphones and tablets whether or not you actually used the app and some phones and tablets won't allow the average non technical person to remove the app.

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tomonline 6 days ago

If you're an insider and it takes you until 2018 to realize there is something wrong then you don't have what I would call 'morals'

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superm8n 6 days ago

From the article:

• The people at Facebook live in their own bubble. Zuck has always believed that connecting everyone on earth was a mission so important that it justified any action necessary to accomplish it. Convinced of the nobility of their mission, Zuck and his employees seem to listen to criticism without changing their behavior.

• They respond to nearly every problem with the same approach that created the problem in the first place: more AI, more code, more short-term fixes.

• They do not do this because they are bad people. They do this because success has warped their perception of reality.

Science shows the richer a person gets, the less attention they pay to other people:

http://qz.com/816188/science-shows-the-richer-you-get-the-less-you-pay-attention-to-other-people/

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MacNulty 6 days ago

> Zuck has always believed that connecting everyone on earth was a mission so important that it justified any action necessary to accomplish it. "*What's good for the world isn't necessarily what's good for Facebook.*" Zuckerberg

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chuck__noblet 6 days ago

Even at this writing, I still own shares in Facebook. My criticism of the company is a matter of principle, and owning shares is a good way to make that point. I became an activist because I was among the first to see a catastrophe unfolding, and my history with the company made me a credible voice.

If the author's "history with the company made me a credible voice" then his claim about "owning shares is a good way to make that point" falls apart. Sell the shares. Be the good guy. Have some honor. Otherwise he is making money off the thing he claims to hate.

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TheLoiyd 6 days ago

Somebody attached a silencer to him lol

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judylinn 6 days ago

Facebook needs to have large fines. It needs regulations.

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qznc_bot 6 days ago

There is a discussion on Hacker News, but feel free to comment here as well.

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JuanSnow420 6 days ago

I feel like I’m the only person on the planet who knew what I was getting into when I signed up for Facebook.

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digitalmarley :flag-il: Illinois 6 days ago

and I feel like I'm the only person on the planet who knew what I was getting into when I **NEVER** signed up for Facebook

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JuanSnow420 6 days ago

Haven’t been on it in years, but knew the day I hit “accept terms of agreement” that they would take the information I voluntarily provide and sell it. It’s just common sense, blows my mind that people had no clue.

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putin_my_ass 6 days ago

You would think that Facebook’s users would be outraged by the way the platform has been used to undermine democracy, human rights, privacy, public health and innovation. Some are, but nearly 1.5 billion people use Facebook every day. They use it to stay in touch with distant relatives and friends. They like to share their photos and their thoughts. They do not want to believe that the same platform that has become a powerful habit is also responsible for so much harm.

This is why you all have a responsibility to delete your Facebook.

They use you as a metric for success, and the more of you stay on the platform the more they point to the numbers of users as justification for not changing.

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Starlifter3 6 days ago

Interesting, but the equivalent of screaming on a Palo Alto street corner while waving your arms.

Suppose, just for fun, that Congress or the alphabet agencies decide they really want to crack down on FB, Google and Amazon. It doesn't take long, just over a couple of drinks, for a lobbyist to explain to members and senior staff, that their client has everything they, their families, their friends, their enemies, and their pets have ever done online.

Everything.

It just takes one or two to be absolutely, irrevocably ruined by leaks of information.

I fear for the republic.

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ShalmaneserIII 6 days ago

Does Facebook (or anyone else, for that matter) have any obligation to preserve democracy?

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gom99 6 days ago

People just like to use hyperbole. Misinformation was easier to push before the internet :/. The term propaganda isn't a new term, but it's easier than ever to disprove propaganda than it ever has been in the history of the world. It's easier than ever to get multiple points of view on any given topic. Not that I agree with Zuck or support Facebook as a platform, but they have no obligation to control what their users can and can't see or what they decide to share. This guy talking about regulations on social media and even making it a public service just strike a fundamentally wrong chord with me.

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AnewHeroEmerges 6 days ago

Damn, what a roast. Good. Zuckerberg has gone full fucking evil. This guys ideas are great too. A public infrastructure or a nationalized Facebook would be a great investment.

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rws8w4 6 days ago

That way US government can do what Russia did and control the populous to vote one way or another. Maybe we get stuck with one party forever on forward. I cannot imagine any worst dystopia than changing from one that is bad to one that is equally as bad. The problem is the infrastructure, it is a weaponized platform used for manufacturing opinion.

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MacNulty 6 days ago

A nationalised Facebook would be most likely disaster on the international front. Also any centralised architecture will always be ripe for abuse. The only way out is a decentralised protocol. Sort of like e-mail but better.

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AnewHeroEmerges 6 days ago

I'd be ok with a decentralized system as long as it was properly maintained by a state entity selected by the people and NOT an entity motivated by profit.

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MacNulty 6 days ago

I think you are confused. Decentralised system is composed of smaller interdependent parts. There is no central authority maintaining a decentralised system hence the name.

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AnewHeroEmerges 6 days ago

You can unify a system of process though. Edit: I meant like how the DNS servers are run are non profit or whatever.

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rws8w4 6 days ago

"system of process" means nothing. Are you referring to the architecture? Old people terminology: It could be an application where you own your own data that you'd share with friends or family like a fancy text message with multiple people that you can add or remove from the text with a whole bunch of options. If you do not friend someone they don't see you accept for your name. You can have a getting to know me friend chat and bring them through certain stages allowing what information that each person sees and doesn't see. You could also limit what your friends see. If you decide to change what someone sees, it will delete it from their saved app data on their phone.

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Smartsville 6 days ago

LOL people still use facebook? Get a clue people! They're farming your life for profit. Fuck facebook! Fuck Fuckerburg!

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Puzzleheaded_Baby 6 days ago

So you do bad things and it does not make you bad people. What has the world become nowadays.

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louzhirr 6 days ago

Mark Zuckerberg is emblematic of all billionaires. No matter how benevolent you think they might be, they are the enemies of a free and open society.

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smacktoward - @smacktoward 6 days ago

> Zuck has always believed that connecting everyone on earth was a mission so important that it justified any action necessary to accomplish it.

Anytime someone starts telling you that their end is so noble it justifies any means, you should run away from them as fast as you possibly can.

tripnine - @tripnine 6 days ago

If you ever find yourself in a situation where you have to explain to a relative or acquaintance why FB is bad and they just don't get it, point to this article, it'll save a bunch of time. Great articulation that sums up their issues and potential solutions. Sometimes things bear repeating they are so important.

simmanian - @simmanian 6 days ago

Is it feasible to create a corporate structure that would encourage it to act with the public interest in mind? Are there any known patterns, research, or tries? My very ill-informed mind is thinking of a parent-child structure where the parent gets to veto and only veto decisions made by its children that may be harmful for the general public.

crsmithdev - @crsmithdev 6 days ago

A heavily-recycled story that's been making the rounds since at least 2017. No matter, have to keep the outrage machine going to drive traffic!

smsm42 - @smsm42 6 days ago

I'm reading all the time about how fake news on Facebook supposedly influenced the elections, but I haven't heard of any factual confirmation of that. Did it really happen? Did somebody research that? How much influence did they find? I have seen research that says convincing people campaigning is pretty much hopeless - they'd nod to ads they agree with and ignore ones they disagree with, but won't change their minds : https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3042867

Maybe this research is wrong - but I'd like to see any research if Facebook fake news did really have any influence at all.

swamy_g - @swamy_g 6 days ago

I first thought it was because FB thought his last name was made up.

hvs - @hvs 6 days ago

    I got involved with the company more than a decade ago and have taken great pride and joy in the company’s success … until the past few months.

few months? Then you haven't been paying attention or are just as bad as them.

rock_hard - @rock_hard 6 days ago

Is there a official confirmation that he really mentored him?

All I saw once is a statement that he knows him

BillSaysThis - @BillSaysThis 6 days ago

Cry me a river. He still owns FB stock and AFAIK has not donated prior profits to charity.

tivert - @tivert 6 days ago

The post title was changed from the article title, it should be: "I Mentored Mark Zuckerberg. I Loved Facebook. But I Can't Stay Silent About What's Happening."

ilovecaching - @ilovecaching 6 days ago

I think the right steps are already being taken. Breaking up Facebook would just decentralize the problem up and make it impossible to solve. At least with Facebook everything is in one place, and they have the money and resources to fix things.

renholder - @renholder 6 days ago

Anyone have a GDPR-friendly link? Wayback[0] won't save the site[1], for some reason. =[

[0] - https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://time.com/5505441/mark-z...

[1] - https://web.archive.org/web/20190117191830/http://time.com/5...

ihateyoutime - @ihateyoutime 6 days ago

The piece of sh#t bloatware that is time.com just crashed my phone while loading all the resources to read a text-based article. Go figure.

draw_down - @draw_down 6 days ago

Disingenuous to claim the problems started in "the past few months", IMO.

Show all comments on Hackernews

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tntmod54321 7 hs ago

Why?

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Pelt0n 2 hs ago

The social credit system can dock you social credit points if you interact with people deemed unsavory

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Bot_Metric 8 hs ago

500.0 yards ≈ 457.2 metres ^(1 yard ≈ 0.92m)

^(I'm a bot. Downvote to remove.)

^| ^Info ^| ^PM ^| ^Stats ^| ^Opt-out ^| ^v.4.4.7 ^|

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Nopesorrylol Yesterday

jesus christ

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ColonelFitzGITRDUN Yesterday

This is madness

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BuffetRaider Yesterday

And this, folks, is how you create a self-perpetuating dystopia.

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desolategrunt Yesterday

sallie mae and those other debt keepers would love to bring this to america

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WE_Coyote73 Yesterday

Fuck Sallie Mae, that dirty bitch can get rectal warts from a Brazilian gigolo for all I care.

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Ducal Yesterday

This shit is why the world is doomed if China becomes the sole super power

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illgiveu25shmeckles Yesterday

If they did this America even more people would be getting shot in the streets.

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adam3k3 Yesterday

Communist China -Alex Jones voice.

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poor-toy-soul-doll Yesterday

I had a very negative reaction to this at first like "okay China, you're dumb, we get it" ... but then I remembered how it works in the US.

The Constitution's 13th Amendment didn't exactly outlaw slavery, it only says you can't be held as a slave unless you're guilty of a crime.
Being poor is basically illegal (where ya gonna poop? where ya gonna sleep? nowhere legal, that's where) everywhere in the US.

This planet makes me very sad and angry.

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frackoffm8 Yesterday

1984 was not a guide

FFS

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NewClayburn Yesterday

How about an app that reports lavish spending by Party officials which could go toward paying off debts of working class people instead?

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MosTheBoss Yesterday

God damn I love me some "Communism with Chinese characteristics"

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Oxideist Yesterday

Guy: buys coffee

Me: "Aw hell no, this dude totally has 20k in student loan debt. IF YOU CAN AFFORD COFFEE YOU CAN PAY BACK THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS REEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!"

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alsomdude2 Yesterday

Damn China saw black mirror and said hold my fucking beer.

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Angdrambor Yesterday

Thank you, china, for being a real life example of how horrifying it can get.

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__asamara__ Yesterday

The logical conclusion to this app is that everyone lives without debt. And if that happens, then modern capitalistic economy cannot work. There are very few places in the world where you can buy a house for cash amount. Meaning it's affordable. You almost invariably have to take mortgage. Wanna to buy a car? Get a loan. Want to get an education? Loan. Want to travel? Loan. Want to buy a TV? Loan? And those very loans keeps the economy afloat and millions and billions of people employee in various category. China is doing a lot of things (if this news story is also true) that will come back to bite them back in few decades.

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Pizzacrusher Yesterday

haha, that thing would go completely crazy in the US....

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zypofaeser Yesterday

Orwell is spinning in his grave.

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sanguine_sea Yesterday

This is probably not true because Daily Mail.

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One_Laowai Yesterday

oh dailymail, so probably fake or overblown..

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ipv6-dns Yesterday

the U.S. banks are quiet and watch over the experiment with interest... ;)

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Ivalia Yesterday

These articles are really misleading. People already discussed it in another post: https://reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/aiqpni/_/eeq12u5/?context=1

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TypecastHero Yesterday

The world is becoming a scarier place to live each and every day.

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AdorableLime Yesterday

All these hackers everywhere but not a single one to fuck all that shit up already?

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cr0ft 6 hs ago

This is fine.

Cryptocurrencies shouldn't strive to become part of the old, diseased system. They should disrupt.

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enginvest 1 - 2 years account age. 200 - 1000 comment karma. 7 hs ago

bullish

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753UDKM Crypto God | QC: BTC 43, CC 39 8 hs ago

Good. If you want to invest in Bitcoin, buy Bitcoin.

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crypto_kang Crypto God | QC: CC 98, BTC 46, ETH 31 9 hs ago

Grayscale already has a product anyway

Plus ETF is the opposite of Bitcoin

This was always a non starter and a non factor

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sgtslaughterTV CryptoNewsSiteSkeptic Yesterday

Real news, even bad news on a bitcoin ETF, and this results in little to no market movement? I guess this means we hit the bottom.

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Megalorye Redditor for 2 months. Yesterday

Ha ha, no it means that a very select few control the market, no matter what the news is.

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sgtslaughterTV CryptoNewsSiteSkeptic 11 hs ago

Yeah but I remember over the summer just announcing a "delay" brought the price down by like 1000 dollars (8k range to 7k range)

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Megalorye Redditor for 2 months. 11 hs ago

That's because there was still real people in at that point, now it's just whales and their bots.

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beaupain Crypto Nerd Yesterday

Et alors?

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ebaley Crypto God | QC: BTC 64 Yesterday

Not so. The deadline is February 27th.

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Libertymark Crypto God | QC: ETH 69, CC 27 Yesterday

pretty sure bears are about to get their asses handed to them any day now

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Fly115 Crypto God | QC: BTC 264, CC 96, BCH 63 Yesterday

This is probably a smart move by the CBOE. The current government shutdowns would make a denial much more likely, as they are running on limited staff and would be extra cautious.

The application is only withdrawn temporarily.

“We were engaged in discussions with the SEC about the bitcoin-related issues, custody, market manipulation, prices, and that had to stop. And so, instead of trying to slip through or something, we just had the application pulled and we will re-file when the SEC gets going again,” van Eck told the network.

Source

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LegendzEnt 1 - 2 year account age. 35 - 100 comment karma. Yesterday

Ask yourself what would Satoshi do ? He would give no fux

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mejuwi1 9 hs ago

Haha satoshi was smart, he mined millions of btc and bid goodbye while dumping on the market ever since

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ElRo123 Yesterday

Nobody needed this anyways, yet I'm surprised it only tickled the bitcoin price. That's a good sign to me.

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Kpenney Crypto God | QC: CC 321 Yesterday

A year ago this would have had more impact. Now people all over the world are wondering what's going to become of the US. So if the US economy goes out the window, then why wouldn't you come to btc or crypto? Its about a trustless economy anyways, and I'm certainly having personal trust issues with the direction the federal government of the states is taking, I dont think it's very wise for them to prolong a government shutdown, but here we are. The longest one in US history with no plausible end in sight.

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Angel_Madison 7 hs ago

USA news has all been drama and lunacy and infighting as far as we outside of it get fed by the media, punctuated by celebrity gossip and mass shootings most weeks.

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Steven81 Crypto God | QC: BTC 71, CC 54 Yesterday

Nobody is wondering that. All technology of importance with global reach is made there. It is the defacto world leader, now more than ever. No amount of orange ... shenanigans can change that. Things will only change when factors like the "next" Amazon, Facebook and even Bitcoin is not made by Americans. As long as Americans (almost exclusively) basically invent the world they would be world leaders. Almost impossible to change.

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Kpenney Crypto God | QC: CC 321 11 hs ago

All I'm getting at is that we're witnessing some pretty horrible and very probable long term damage being done to something that was supposed to represent trust, and its market in part leads a good chunk of western countries whether they like it or not, its not like last recession the entire western world didn't feel it in some way. Crypto was born out of the fires of that recession and here we are again on the cusp of something new, I have no clue what will happen. For all I know I'm betting the wrong way but something deep in me is telling me to hodl on, because government doesnt actually way much on the value of something that is technologically innovative in todays age and yet isnt really attached to one government or another. It's about trust in the blockchains themselves that really will drive this thing anyways.

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Steven81 Crypto God | QC: BTC 71, CC 54 11 hs ago

You are right, you have no clue (of) what is going to happen. 2000s was the last recessionary period. We never get 2 such periods back to back in 140 years. Especially fewer reasons to happen now: http://www.multpl.com/inflation-adjusted-s-p-500

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stardawg777 Crypto God | QC: ETH 298, CC 77 Yesterday

According to this ^^ guy, there are no other countries besides the USA.

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Steven81 Crypto God | QC: BTC 71, CC 54 11 hs ago

Not my fault that the rest of the world refuses to innovate. Tell me one overriding tech with global reach from the 21st CE that is not American. The rest of the world is increasingly left behind. It is sad actually.

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hurrdurrCS Crypto Nerd 1 h ago

The rest of the world is increasingly left behind? You guys use still checks and do your taxes psychically with paperwork. Or should I say, most of the things are still done by paperwork in USA, where most of advanced countries have left paperwork long long behind (Looking at you Estonia, France, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Japan, Finland). Your iPhones and other "innovations" you call out here, are mostly manufactured and made in China. I think it was really short time ago, when you guys in US still used to vote non-digital? So stop calling others behind, when USA Is not even near to advanced technology compared to Japan or Scandinavian, where whole infrastructure on government level is digitalised... Sorry, but seriously what the fuck are you on mate. There was even some public research, where 20 millions Americans thought that chocolate milk comes from Brown / dark cows, nevertheless feel that you are one of them and I feel sorry for u. If you need examples, which worldwide technology solutiouns have other countries provided the world, you can name tons, (ex: Skype, TransferWise are the first which comes to my mind) To edit - Most of those worldwide "technological sensations" are just some big companies acquisition over small companies and start ups, but you probably dont know what acquisition means. and FUCK YES IM ANGRY, cus you are so fucking stupid and cant even open ur eyes and realize how close-minded u are

1

Sanguinius Crypto Nerd | QC: XRP 66, CC 19 11 hs ago

The Australian Government science branch (CSIRO) invented WiFi for one.

3

Steven81 Crypto God | QC: BTC 71, CC 54 10 hs ago

Oh wow. And nokia research invented the embedded antenna. Now tell me who popularized those , especially with the advent of mobile phones. It is shoking how less and less the rest of the world is a factor. American products and influence everywhere. China can/could affect the world however they chose to look inwards which of course will kill them in a few short decades. All communist regimes are dead stupid when it comes to long term planning. Isolationist dufuses.

0

Sanguinius Crypto Nerd | QC: XRP 66, CC 19 10 hs ago

Agree with you on China however!

1

Sanguinius Crypto Nerd | QC: XRP 66, CC 19 10 hs ago

The answer to your question is Asia, whose population dwarfs North America. Grow up mate. The world does not revolve around the US. You aren't even my country's main trading partner anymore. Not even in the top 5 actually. The US is a powerhouse, to be sure. But it is losing relevance. Look at Davos, the rest of the world is balls deep in talks to remove the USD as the reserve currency. Your relevance will continue to wane while you persist with making actors and reality TV stars your President, for one...

5

Steven81 Crypto God | QC: BTC 71, CC 54 9 hs ago

And you typed this on an American software written on a programming language invented by Americans which run on a computer whose basic component is an american invention and transmitted over a network whose backbone is in US. You can meet and mingle all you want in your little circles, it changes nothing. The world is built by Americans actors and everybody else basically free rides ... Oh and it has the *gall* to be anti American ... Despite the fact that they do not work outside (most of them anyway) in a precarious jobs is mostly american inventions. Talking about biting the hand that feeds you... BTW I am not american. I am just stating facts. An orange baboon in the white house changes nothing. Everybody waits to see when would Tesla achieve mass numbers in batteries and cars, what the next Apple/Google release would be, how Amazon would deliver their products faster all the while watching movies in Netflix and riding Ubers... Goddamn. This is the most americanized world I have ever been to. US was never as *defacto* powerful as now.

0

Kpenney Crypto God | QC: CC 321 6 hs ago

except your components of your current hardware made in China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Singapore, etc etc, as well as software departments with programmers in other parts of the world independent from the tech company in question country of origin. As much as you wish to believe all these things are possible because of the US, they simply were in the right place set up at the right time to have such innovative companies stay whiten house after they started. People go where the money is anyways, and just because the US did some great stuff in tech between 1930 - 2015 doesn't mean companies still in the US are going to continue to grow themselves withen the US.  At one point the sun never set on the English empire, would you still bet on them as the powerhouse in the modern world? Same with Rome. Things come and go, and no one currently globally is looking with confidence at the United States of America.

1

Steven81 Crypto God | QC: BTC 71, CC 54 6 hs ago

I am not saying that US is forever. I am saying that empires typically last more than 70 years. British Empire was 300 years, Rome was 500 years, etc. US is not even a solid century. Give her another or two and then call for its sunset. Rome had Nero and Caligula in the midst of it all. *Still* lived another 3 centuries. All those things are made in Asia, but not invented there. Thus far Asia shows an incredible inability to actually create new industries. They all free ride on industries that Americans made. Now the world prepares to start riding the electric car wave. Another American thing... Simple facts... **edit** but given my downvotes peops can't handle the truth...

1

localname1 1 - 2 year account age. 35 - 100 comment karma. Yesterday

CBOE bailed too

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-23/cboe-bitcoin-etf-application-pulled-after-repeated-sec-delays?srnd=cryptocurrencies

2

ALBORCA WARNING: 4 - 5 years account age. 0 - 32 comment k Yesterday

It's the same van is cboe

4

localname1 1 - 2 year account age. 35 - 100 comment karma. Yesterday

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufxIk\_yyQFA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufxIk_yyQFA) thanks. didnt get past the first couple paragraphs. btw the guy behind the van group was just on cnbc (business tv in the US) talking about btc and etfs.

1

localname1 1 - 2 year account age. 35 - 100 comment karma. Yesterday

Watch tZero. Larger trend attempting to subvert traditional markets, as opposed to working within them. What do you guys think?

0

mejuwi1 Yesterday

What are they doing to subvert the market?

1

localname1 1 - 2 year account age. 35 - 100 comment karma. Yesterday

look it up. it is a blockchain based market. the way i understand it, it is like a nyse, but built with blockchain.  set to launch this week, many years in the making. 100M invested in dev up to this point. fully in compliance with regulation. no other exchanges can claim that.

0

m4tbu 1 - 2 years account age. 200 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

Domp eet

7

RememberSLDL Crypto God | QC: CC 168, XRP 52, ADA 16 Yesterday

I enjoy a bit of pounding before I cry myself to sleep.

10

MrD3flor Crypto God | BTC: 74 QC | XRP: 41 QC Yesterday

That's what she said

8

tranceology3 Crypto God | QC: Tronix 143, CC 82, BTC 28 Yesterday

She is the one doing the pegging now.

2

dreampsi Hodl My Beer! 10 hs ago

. o O

1

kits_ Crypto Expert | QC: CC 92 Yesterday

Just 8 or so weeks ago this news would have caused a 10 percent dump but the bears are struggling to keep it at -1%. Market is more mature now. People truly think bitcoin is cheap

4

mezase Crypto God | QC: CC 116, BTC 55 Yesterday

"More mature" until a bunch of whales decide to short and market sell 20,000 BTC each.

5

fattybrah Crypto God | QC: BTC 198, CC 127, ETH 31 Yesterday

>Market is more mature now. lol

11

tranceology3 Crypto God | QC: Tronix 143, CC 82, BTC 28 Yesterday

Um maybe that big dump we already had from $6k was because insiders knew this would happen. They are accumulating now.

0

mejuwi1 Yesterday

lol that was the BCH scam dump

0

Kotaibaw Crypto God | QC: CC 70, BTC 21 Yesterday

Pump it

5

MrD3flor Crypto God | BTC: 74 QC | XRP: 41 QC Yesterday

LOUDER

3

yellowshack Crypto Expert | QC: CC 105 Yesterday

POMP EET!!!

5

MrD3flor Crypto God | BTC: 74 QC | XRP: 41 QC Yesterday

LOUDER!!

6

SilverHoard Crypto God | QC: CC 205 2 hs ago

Naaah. Nah nah naaaaah.

1

MrD3flor Crypto God | BTC: 74 QC | XRP: 41 QC 2 hs ago

ApplediapfromthephilipinesliveanddirectrockingyourscenebreakingondownforthebboysandbgirlsSOMETHINGSOMETHINGthing

1

droid187 Yesterday

There was never a chance of a Bitcoin ETF ever being approved anyway with tether being such a huge part of this Market. tether would have to totally crash and burn and disappear from this Market or totally open up their books and have a real audit done and prove their legitimacy

0

chiefbaboon Crypto Expert | QC: CC 128, XRP 40 Yesterday

It's the lizard men behind this, I just know it.

16

V-M-P Yesterday

Haha, we are getting trolled.

40

ThouHaveNotSeen 10 hs ago

Someone wanna tl;dr to me why this even mattered to people I mean wasn't bitcoin supposed to be like a currency at one point if you're just hoping people will buy bitcoin, and it isn't even what it was meant to be, aren't you kind of just hoping people will give you more money than you paid for something completely worthless?

5

Opeth4Lyfe Crypto Expert | CC: 85 QC 4 hs ago

Yeah your right. I honestly highly doubt it will become a stable currency to trade with like the US dollar or JPY or the Euro/GBP. It’s too volatile. How can people expect to pay for something or receive payment for something when that asset can potentially lose 5-10 maybe 20% of its value in a day every day. As for it being a legitimate asset to trade....yeah it’s tradable...but it’s pure speculation and it’s a perfect example of the greater fool theory. Buying it in hopes of selling it to the next person for more. BTC itself isnt a company...it doesn’t have shares to buy that give you a return on your investment...it’s just a digital token that you buy and hold and it’s worth X amount of dollars for some reason. Blockchain is a legitimate technology though, it will find a few real niche uses now and in the future, but as far as BTC or Ethereum becoming a world base currency....we (as in you and me) will be long dead before that ever happens imo. If you want instant payment from one person to another try Zelle...I use it through Chase and it can send 500$ a day instantly to anyone with a checking account. Took my roommate all of 4 seconds to send me 500$ that I can go to the bank and withdraw immediately. I mean that’s good enough for me. I say this all as someone who fell for hype and is begrudgingly holding BTC until it’s back above my avg price to sell off and be done with it. Just my 2c

1

litpath Decentraliser 3 hs ago

> BTC itself isnt a company Sir! Blockstream will show you out!

1

zantho Crypto God | QC: ETH 173, CC 36 4 hs ago

The greater fool theory, when applied to crypto, always fails to take into account the core value propositions. 1) cannot be artificially inflated by any entity 2) cannot be frozen or garnished by any entity 3) is able to be transferred physically via secret key ... As well as being fungible, relatively liquid and accepted in more physical location for good and services (or exchanges). Nothing else mankind has ever devised has all of these properties. As for volatility, that will settle as market cap grows.

3

ronnie_s Analyst 3 hs ago

>cannot be artificially inflated by any entity There are 1000's of artificially created cryptos with artificial supply caps, many created "out of thin air". Literally anyone can make them >cannot be frozen or garnished by any entity True, but it coincidentally makes them excellent vehicles for evading sanctions or fraud >As well as being fungible, relatively liquid and accepted in more physical location for good and services (or exchanges) Very low acceptance as payment. I live in a major European city, I've never seen a single place that accepts BTC as payment, why would they? as Amazon and other outlets have pointed out, it's pointless to pay with something so volatile. Perhaps stable-coins, but fixed supply assets don't have a chance >As for volatility, that will settle as market cap grows. It may decrease, but it won't settle. Something like BTC has inflexible supply, it' can't respond to changes in demand, which is why it's value can increase or decrease 10% in an hour. The public/business/industry aren't going to use something that volatile as a currency (over something relatively stable) BTC is not much more than a speculative digital trading token. That's 99.99% of it's use right there. Same with most cryptos.

1

Opeth4Lyfe Crypto Expert | CC: 85 QC 3 hs ago

1.) your right...it can’t be artificially inflated I’ll give you that. 2.) if crypto were to ever be used as a world currency like most crypto believers want and are trying for...it will HAVE to be regulated like any other currency. Tax man WILL come knocking, You won’t have a choice in that. Period. As long as there is a government, they will want a piece of it...and if they can get a piece of it, they can and will find ways to get all of it if they need to. To be a currency there will have to be a governance over it by the powers that be. Again, you won’t have a choice in that. It will have to be somewhat centralized, to what degree idk, like I said I think I’ll be long dead before this happens so I’m not going to worry about it. 3.) I mean I can transfer my dollars physically or digitally anywhere too and it’s the most liquid currency on the planet and currently it’s what BTCs value is based off of. Also raising a market cap doesn’t mean less volatility....it’s still volatile in the fact that it can go up 10% in a week and then drop 20% the next, then up 15% the next week and then down 7% again the following week......market cap doesn’t really matter at that point. And the ENTIRE crypto space touched what 850billion at its highest? That’s the market cap of just one SP 500 company.... and people expect BTC or ETH to become a world currency in the next decade or so? I mean...come on let’s be real and think logically about that for a second.

1

ThouHaveNotSeen 4 hs ago

I agree with you on blockchain being a legitimate technology. I don't find an interest in currency coins, but I'm impressed on the solutions I've seen from public projects like VeChain or Ripple (that don't involve everyone using a scarce, volatile currency with multiple barriers), as well as IBM/Sony (despite these being private chain solutions)

1

BitconnectHodl 9 hs ago

The people still holding it believe it will become a currency once again, the only thing stopping it are technical limitations so far. Not that I hold any.

2

Magikalmonkey Crypto God | QC: CC 203 11 hs ago

Exit scammmm

2

chutiyabehenchod Crypto Nerd Yesterday

I already saw this coming. I was expecting a rejection. When it didn't go up back to 6k so close to deadline. It had it coming.

4

NikhilRao1334 Yesterday

Bhen ki lauda madarchod

0

wolfonallstreetz 1 - 2 years account age. 200 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

I really don’t give a shit at this point... the ETF wasn’t going to break us from a bear market.

75

Jimbobkos Crypto Expert | QC: NEO 18, CC 18 4 hs ago

Do you even know what an ETF is and it could help the BTC market?

0

CoKBrian 1 - 2 year account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. Yesterday

that sentiment is shared by a lot of people and probably explains why there wasn't a big pullback because of this news. a big fat MEH

14

Steven81 Crypto God | QC: BTC 71, CC 54 Yesterday

It most probably would though. You are in denial. These news means extension of the bear market until the US government resumes and a new application is made. It basically takes us at least 1 year away from the next bull... Crypto enthusiasts always in denial.

0

cr0ft 6 hs ago

The real way forward for cryptos isn't to try to suck on Wall Street's teat, it is to get back to the original idea of it - rebellion against all that shit. Adoption is the only thing. Which is why it's so damned infuriating that the flagship coin has been taken over by Bankster stooges who torpedoed that, tons of places that used to accept Bitcoin have since stopped because it's too slow and expensive.

5

Steven81 Crypto God | QC: BTC 71, CC 54 6 hs ago

No revolution ever survived. The only revolutions that ever mattered were made by insiders and basically the prior masters who decided to change ways. Show me a historical example of an outsider changing the world and I will concede. What happens however is that the outsider becomes insider and then changes the world. Adoption would only happen if Wall Str and Banks start pushing for it... It won't be organic. It never is organic.

0

devilldog 11 hs ago

Just more time to accumulate...

0

realvlad06 7 hs ago

Exactly. We should be happy with these prices, from next year we may never see them again.

2

YouPoro Crypto Nerd | QC: CC 39 Yesterday

it definitely would have

0

Libertymark Crypto God | QC: ETH 69, CC 27 Yesterday

less ilegal shorting to me is bullish

9

Light_of_Lucifer There is no justice, only conquest 6 hs ago

"illegal naked short selling" - libertyMark probably

2

shewmai Crypto Expert | QC: CC 23, BTC 17 11 hs ago

Would that be a result of an ETF? Genuinely curious, not trying to be a dick. I haven’t heard this argument before but it sounds nice haha *If* that’s the case, I hope it happens solely because we currently have shorts on CBOE. May as well even things out and let the real crypto heads trade real coins on other exchanges

2

Libertymark Crypto God | QC: ETH 69, CC 27 10 hs ago

Physical backed etfs are more bullish then cash and synthetic

2

Libertymark Crypto God | QC: ETH 69, CC 27 10 hs ago

Etf would bring potential of more parabolic Buying and quick money But more shorting too Good and bad Rather have people learn like we all did Peer to peer money Etc

4

Fernseherr Crypto God | QC: CC 85, NANO 80 Yesterday

Because you're in for the tech, right?

10

leostiw Crypto God | QC: ETH 168, CC 42 4 hs ago

This is all what is left at this point

3

rhorse Yesterday

surprise! (not)

1

Robby16 Crypto God | QC: CC 257 Yesterday

Price already factored in.