Token Daily

sg77 12 hs ago

Some previous discussion related to this company: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/78gkjh/hardware_wallet_vulnerabilities_grid/

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MoonNoon Yesterday

BCH pls. Looks like an expensive wallet.

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lifepo4 Yesterday

I would say this is more like a bank than a wallet because it enables the user to have an essentially limitless number of accounts with different security attributes. Additionally, it provides the user the ability to create permissions and pairings so they can make automatic payments and make payments using any paired device like a laptop or smart phone. This means that is really a hub of commerce as well a a mechanism by which to create cold storage on SafeCards. That being said, the planned MSRP for the device will be ~$300. More coins such as BCH will be added overtime.

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EvanVanNess WeekInEthereum.com Yesterday

fyi i'm removing this as a dupe since there's already a link to the youtube and twitter linking to the post above it.

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bee8e3713e555a27037a redditor for 3 months Yesterday

the wallet and cold storage smart cards look interesting. the electricity payment device doesn't though. what's the use of that?

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lifepo4 Yesterday

The Lattice1 allows permissions and pairings so that the device can be used to make automatic crypto payments. The electricity payment is one use case of automatic real-time payments.

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bee8e3713e555a27037a redditor for 3 months Yesterday

It says the smart cards generate private keys based on data that was programmed into them at the factory: >Physically uncloneable functions (PUFs) convert each chip’s unique electrical fingerprint into digital entropy that cannot be stolen or observed. So that means you have a copy of the private keys doesn't it? The trezor OTOH gets entropy from the PC.

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lifepo4 Yesterday

No one, not even you, has the private key. The key is only manifested physically. PUFs are like electronic snowflakes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_unclonable_function They are made through uncontrollable randomness in the manufacturing process. They cannot be observed or reproduced and each one is unique. The entropy in a PUF is used to create a signature, but the private key is never actually knowable outside of the device. This is the most secure way to store a secret because even nation states are not able to derive a private key from a PUF on a secure microcontroller. For anyone familiar with nuances of security a PUF is the best way to keep a secret. That being said, if a customer does not want to use the PUF, they can store a secret on a smart card that is generated from a BIP39 process similar to trezor. This is less secure from a physical standpoint because an electron microscope could be used to read the secret from the microprocessor, just like it could be read off the trezor. https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~sps32/cardis2016_sem.pdf Additionally, it means that a plaintext copy of the seed likely exists somewhere written on a piece of paper, which not only suffers from durability issues but can also be easily compromised. In terms of backups, hierarchical multi-signature systems would be they way to "backup" PUF based accounts, because the cards themselves are "physically unclonable" so they cannot be individually backed up because they are impossible to read or reproduce.

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btchip Yesterday

> a PUF is the best way to keep a secret I'd say this is pretty close to my personal view and the opinion of other hardware security people I'm interacting with - http://www.securitydocumentworld.com/article-details/i/11275/ Can you be more specific about the PUF you're using ?

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GoodRedd Yesterday

I went from cynic to fan SO FAST reading this. Even though I understood none of it. I'll check the links and see if I can figure it out .

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lifepo4 Yesterday

Let me know if you have any questions. One other thing that may be of interest is that in a multi-sig wallet multiple entropy sources could be used for the different keys. One could be a PUF, the other could be a BIP39 generated on the Lattice1 or elsewhere, and the 3rd could be a backup provider like BitGo. Then the user is really mitigating their risk of flaws in any single tech implementation.

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GixCrypto 5 hs ago

Final Thoughts (TL;DR):

Don't use something just because it sounds cool…only use it if actually solves some problem (To date, cryptocurrency solves problems for few people, at least in the First World).
Most things we think of as problems are not solvable with crypto or any other such technology (crap like "better donation systems" are not something most people are interested in).
If one is involved in dangerous transactions – drugs, birth control information – practice intensive "operational security"….look at how Ross Ulbricht was caught.
Mathematics is not the law
Crypto remains very far from being usable by average people (even technical people)
Be interested in liberty and the freedom to transact and speak to get back to the original motivations.
Don't spend time trying to make government-friendly financial alternatives.
Remember, there are a lot of tyrants out there.
Nothing but scammers, fraudsters, and speculating charlatans.
Hype is real. Too many crypto gurus, conferences and expos; too much sell, no show.
He reads crypto-related Reddit and Twitter BS.

Tim May, the original cypherpunk, has always been skeptical about Bitcoin, though. I wonder whether he reads this sub :)

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Mao_Potato 7 hs ago

LMAO tittle made me laugh and the preview picture fits well.

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EducationalElephant 6 hs ago

What the actual heck is that ICO LOL

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Mindwarp53 9 hs ago

Tbh I mostly posted this because of the title.

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SnoweCat7 7 hs ago

It's interesting reading though: the disillusionment with all the crap that has piled on but still a true believer in anarcho-crypto-capitalism.

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SnapshillBot 9 hs ago

Roar, buttcoin, roar!

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Dr_Vladislav 10 hs ago

ICOs spoil the game of crypto alot out their ether scam or useless

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CommonMisspellingBot 10 hs ago

Hey, Dr\_Vladislav, just a quick heads-up: **alot** is actually spelled **a lot**. You can remember it by **it is one lot, 'a lot'**. Have a nice day! ^^^^The ^^^^parent ^^^^commenter ^^^^can ^^^^reply ^^^^with ^^^^'delete' ^^^^to ^^^^delete ^^^^this ^^^^comment.

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BooCMB 10 hs ago

Hey CommonMisspellingBot, just a quick heads up: Your spelling hints are really shitty because they're all essentially "remember the fucking spelling of the fucking word". You're useless. Have a nice day!

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AutoModerator redditor for +5 years 11 hs ago

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Natanael_L 11 hs ago

This subreddit is about cryptography, not cryptocurrency

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HARDETH 1 day ago

If you think in Fiat and still love fiat, Fiat kills!

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cryptodal 1 day ago

Never tell anyone how much money and where you keep it. Hell look what the banks have been doing to you for years and that's legal. Not trying to be funny, this is a sad story. Don't let it be you.

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i_gotta_say 1 day ago

John McAffee has to post pics on twitter with guns in every picture. Not subtle about it. I'm sure he's pretty far down on the list of robbery targets tho.

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Spartan3123 1 day ago

Annnd this is why I don't use localBitcoins

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Nunoyabiznes 1 day ago

But he saved 15% on capital gains taxes by trading on the street....not worth it. RIP, be safe out there.

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menketsu Yesterday

28% in Norway

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hotmial redditor for 3 months Yesterday

It used to be. No longer so. For 2018 it is 23%. https://www.regjeringen.no/no/tema/okonomi-og-budsjett/skatter-og-avgifter/skattesatser-2018/id2575161/

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BlTGROIN redditor for 6 weeks 1 day ago

Sources of TV 2: The victim exchanged Bitcoin in a big cash sum before he was killed

The knife-killed 24-year-old exchanged Bitcoin in a big cash sum before he was killed. The police are advised that part of the amount was kept in the apartment

Sources in the police say to TV 2 that the tip is that the deceased 24-year-old paid the bill before finding the knife piece in the apartment on Monday morning.

Payout is now one of the tracks in police investigation.

TV 2 is aware that the police have been informed that there should have been money stored in the home. This is something the police are now working to map.

The amount must have been kept in cash in the apartment. Several people in the 24-year-old circuit must be known for the payout, after TV 2 is experiencing.

Currently, the police have no suspects and have not made any arrests in the case. Wednesday night, crime engineers are still on the scene to conduct investigations. Head of Common Unit for Intelligence and Investigations in Oslo Police, Grete Lien Metlid says to TV 2 that they are working to map the most around the victim but that they have nothing more to do with now.

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BlTGROIN redditor for 6 weeks 1 day ago

"We are familiar with a tip about Bitcoin, but at this time we will not provide more information about the investigation," said Metlid. - What motives are appropriate for the police to investigate by now? "We investigate widely in every way. Economic motives are one of the reasons we open, Metlid states. Garbage rooms and common areas in the apartment block are end-facing in search of clues. It is not known if something has been found interesting in the investigation. Wednesday night there are crimes technicians in the scene. Killers investigators have conducted surveys in the neighborhood. The police state that they have made many testimonies, but do not want to go into what has come from these testimonies. The deceased 24-year-old's family has asked for peace and does not want to express themselves in the media. - They are terribly awful Peder Morset is a lawyer for the family, telling them tough. - They are terribly terrible. They have lost a child - the most precious man has, he says to TV 2. He does not want to comment on any motives in the case or if the victim was in conflict with anyone in advance of the murder. Wednesday at 12 o'clock police and updating. "We're going through video and doing surveys in the area. It is still the case that we have no arrests or suspects in the case, says the head of joint unit for intelligence and investigation in Oslo police Grete Lien Metlid. The police are now focusing on mapping movements around the knife-killing 24-year-old. So far, the police will not go into the forensic tracks that are secured or anything about the killing weapon. "For now, we can not say anything about the deadlock. We also can not say anything about a motive for the action, Metlid states. The time when the comrades went to bed on Monday is the last safe observation of the 24-year-old. The comrades in the community in Arbo's gate at Majorstua had a fun Sunday evening. Relatively early everyone walked and left, but what happened after that is still the big question for the police.

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BlTGROIN redditor for 6 weeks 1 day ago

Grete Lien Metlid states that one roommate did not sleep at that night. Two of the boys in the community have explained to the police that they left the apartment around 07.50 Monday morning to attend work and school. The killed 24-year-old should have actually met at work at 09, but never met. The next known observation of the killings is according to police when one of the roommates found him at 12.15. The police are now working on a bomb to find out what happened in the four hours between 07.50 and 12.15. Dozens of knife sticks The roommate notified the health service, who again alerted the police. The 24-year-old was quickly found dead. Sources say to TV 2 that the murder appears to be brutal, and that the deceased was inflicted on many knife stings. The police have received more tips on the matter, but it is still unclear when the 24 year-old was killed and how the perpetrator or perpetrators got into the apartment. On Tuesday afternoon, the police received the preliminary autopsy report and stated that the report confirms that it is a very serious matter.

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YoungScholar89 1 day ago

> The police are now working on a bomb to find out what happened in the four hours I like it. In order to catch the criminal, you have to *think* like the criminal.

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BlTGROIN redditor for 6 weeks 1 day ago

Lol, a more correct translation would be that the police are working very hard. Not on a bomb.

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pg3crypto 1 day ago

Its in Norwegian. :C

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BlTGROIN redditor for 6 weeks 1 day ago

Sorry about that! I gave Google translate a try http://reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/9p2bhy/man_brutally_killed_had_recently_exchanged/e7yhttb

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ABitcoinAllBot 2 days ago

Here is the link to the original comment thread. Or you can comment here to start a discussion. Author: BlTGROIN

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amenhallo 1 year ago

DISCLAIMER: I've read up on their abstract and I think this is a pretty interesting idea, and I've invested $200. This thread is light on info so I'm offering the basics and some musings on the value of the token, but I may be wrong about my facts and/or predictions. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Read the abstract yourselves on their website: https://www.saltlending.com/

The basic idea is this. Say you want to take out a loan of 10k. You'll need to offer your crypto as collateral - so 12k in crypto value. This is signed by both you the lender and the borrower in a smart contract. Then you get 10k in cash and you have to pay back ~850 a month for a year. Once you've paid it all back you get access to your crypto again. You can also pay it all off earlier, with no costs (there's usually a pre-payment fee with traditional lenders, not so here). Any increase in the crypto you have in a cold wallet with SALT is yours. If you've given them 1 BTC as collateral you'll get back 1BTC once your loan is paid back, so any increase is naturally yours. If your crypto depreciates in value they will contact you asking you to a) either allow for a selling off of some of your crypto, or b) pay back more in your next monthly payment.

Three use cases as I see them:

You're a long term holder that wants to make use of some of your crypto holdings without having to sell a lucrative long term investment, and without having to pay the tax associated with capital gains tax.
Think of all the traders who essentially can hold on to their crypto holdings and their potential gains, and still get almost the equivalent in cash to reinvest. I think there's strong demand for this.
If you're liable to pay more than 20% of taxes on your gains you can instead simply take a loan from SALT which you don't pay back - their smart contract will automatically sell off your crypto collateral (this will have no effect on any kind of credit score - no such thing with SALT).

So 1 SALT = 1 years membership, which includes all the fees usually hidden in the loan payment with regular lending. This is to increase transparency of costs - you know what you're going to be paying, up front.

Basic membership is 1 SALT, whereby you can take out 10k in loans. For a premium membership (30 SALT per year) you can take loans of up to 100k (and there's also an enterprise membership tier higher than this for higher loans).

This is why I'm interested in terms of investment in their token (aside from the aforementioned use cases above):

For 1 SALT/year membership you can take out loans of up to 10k. Right now they're selling 1 SALT for $7.50. That's $7.50 to be able to take out a loan of 10k. Do you think that this is a low, high, or correctly valued price for that kind of service? For a premium membership where you can take out loans of up to 100k, you'd be paying 30 SALT/$225 per year for that kind of service. Do you think that's a low, high, or correct evaluation of the service? Consider that people pay $10 per month for Spotify.

I'm thinking that 0.5% of the potential loan is a very reasonable price, which would put the yearly membership fee at $50/1 SALT/year for basic membership and $500/30 SALT/year for the 100k premium membership. That means a ROI of nearly 7x.

As user parallelsinsymbolism states the SALT won't get burned. I reckon this is so that the price doesn't become deflationary and nobody can afford the service. But I'm assuming the token will be tradeable in some way (right now they've sold nearly half of the total amount that will be in circulation - 55M/120M, and there's no reason people are buying up decades of memberships for themselves). So regardless if the token is burned or not, there will be an equilibrium of price reached after a while, representing the value of the service. Again, will this be $7.50 for a year or more/less?

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mnbitcoin 4 - 5 years account age. 500 - 1000 comment karma. 11 months ago

Any idea what kind of interest rates the loan are at?

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MagneticSoup 11 months ago

This is determined by the people putting up the capital. There is very low risk for the lenders considering they will have 120% of their loaned amount locked up in a liquifiable asset. I suspect capitalism will take over and rates start high but move lower as the platform performs well and lenders trust that they will get their money back.

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[deleted] 1 year ago

[deleted]

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amenhallo 1 year ago

Yeah, if you think the price of membership will be higher than the 5 bucks they're trading for now.

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RightwayNZ 1 year ago

Ho do you buy the token. Jave signed up on website and cannot find anywhere to deposit Eth for Salt in return.

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mETHaquaIone Positive | Karma CC: 2471 WTC: 926 1 year ago

How does one benefit from holding SALT tokens ? thanks.

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panzer981 4 - 5 years account age. 125 - 250 comment karma. 9 months ago

salt tokens are "memberships" that can be used to access the lending features. 1 salt = 1 year loans upto 10k 30 salt = 1 year loan upto 100k

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ArethusaF38 1 year ago

Looks interesting. I'll have to research this.

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saintmaurice redditor for 2 months 1 year ago

Lending industry needs to cut out the middle man

If this doesn't succeed another like it will

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decentralizr 1 year ago

Yup got my salt very early. Looking forward to see how it turns out

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GeorgesTurdBlossom 1 year ago

Seems like a great idea. Crypto is the perfect collateral.

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fomodude 6 hs ago

Great for MKR/Dai! What I don't understand is how 60 tx/s for POA is considered scalable. I mean, if the solution is meant to support microtransactions, there are likely to be a lot of them. Or am I missing something here?

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Zarigis 1 h ago

Realistically you can spool up as many sidechains as you need to handle the load, as long as you can transfer Dai between them. 60 tx/s is probably fine for the foreseeable future.

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ebwvibfhwbovchwdshjd 9 hs ago

So does this makes this new blockchain a side chain? Or it's actually a self sustaining chain? Thanks

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stan3666 3 hs ago

So its kinda both, lol. A PoA chain is based off the ethereum virtual machine, the only difference being the consensus mechanism. This means PoA chains can run smart contracts just like ethereum does. In a PoA chain, tokens can be "bridged" from one chain to another meaning that when tokens on the ethereum chain are deposited to a certain contract, a contract on the PoA chain mints "bridged tokens" on the PoA chain to the owner. So in a way, they are their own self sufficient blockchain that can be bridged to the ethereum main chain like a sidechain would. Its actually a really cool project, and when combined with DAI it will serve some really cool use cases. I am not affiliated with either project btw, however I have been using a PoA chain in my project and will be using DAI(and probably xDAI) when the project gets further along.

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throwawayo12345 10 hs ago

What consensus mechanism does this use?

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bitesports 11 hs ago

I’ve been thinking a lot where this is going. I think There will be many blockchain, they will act as regulatory frameworks with different characteristics. I’m sure we’ll see a sidechain with backed in kyc soon.

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ice0nine 12 hs ago

That's a very lean and pragmatic approach to cheap stable coin payments, nice!

I'd love to write an end-2-end walkthrough on how to pay someone with this, but for a real end-2-end ofc. getting DAI is the problem.

So, could this be made available on Kovan or Rinkeby? As I understand the DAI is already on Kovan (https://medium.com/makerdao/the-code-is-ready-2aee2aa62e73), so there is just a bridge Kovan<->POA missing.

Then there could be a walkthrough with the Kovan or Rinkeby faucets, converting to DAI, bridging to xDai, paying and exiting.

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ice0nine 12 hs ago

Just saw [this](https://medium.com/@maratp/how-to-use-poa-network-crosschain-bridge-with-trustwallet-8d67957b5823), that's very similar to what I want to write, just with MetaMask and DAI, as MM as more widely used (though trustwallet looks neat).

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eMixologies Yesterday

Rip xRapid.

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MrNebbiolo Yesterday

:)

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litpath Flippening Yesterday

And with that...EOS has been shoved into irrelevance.

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SilentGaucho Yesterday

Sounds cool. So on xDai, a dapp developer can be sure all transactions are a price in USD? Is that the main benefit?

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rich_at_makerdao Technical Community Manager 5 hs ago

That's one of them. All transaction fees are paid in tiny amounts of Dai.

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5chdn Parity - Afri Yesterday

FOMO getting some xDAI

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Pasttuesday Yesterday

Just make payment channels a thing based on dai and then get merchant adoption.

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throwawayo12345 Ethereum fan Yesterday

They don't work...blockchains do.

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SheikhShake Yesterday

Super news!

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Just_Send_itt 2 months old | Karma CC: 40 Yesterday

It's definitely not the first ever USD-stable blockchain..... People from the MakerDAO community were being advised by people in the Bitshares forum years ago. Their whole goal back then was to put Bitshares MPAs on Ethereum

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MidnightOnMars Yesterday

I've heard that about the relationship between MakerDAO and Bitshares, but I think the distinction is that this sidechain has the stable coin as its base unit whereas Bitshares has BTS with BitUSD and BitCNY on top of that. Please correct me if I'm wrong though, I have a limited understanding of BitShares. I actually just met someone from the core team last night at an Ethereum meetup - we talked about MakerDAO for a while and they sent me a list of links to get familiar with platform.

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Just_Send_itt 2 months old | Karma CC: 40 1 h ago

It's basically a fork of Bitshares for Ethereum. The stablecoin works exactly the same, except the consensus algorithm is different. Bitshares was the first DPOS chain and it's actually been around for about 5 years. It's moving to Eos very soon, and it's already far more scalable than this on its own. I just remember how the developers would be on the forum all the time asking Dan for advice.. If they told you it was the first USD-stable blockchain, I think that might be a little dishonest.. But if it was just a misunderstanding, then you know I actually think it's a cool experiment for Ethereum.

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twigwam Positive | 5 months old | 90404 karma Yesterday

Maker could be Ethereum's next killer app. I think it is already IMO.

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MidnightOnMars Yesterday

I agree that MakerDAO is already is a killer dapp. It took a while for me to get my head around it, but it's brilliant and I think it'll get far more exciting once we see multi-collateral DAI. I'm curious to see what is built on xDAI and I'm excited to see the universe of Ethereum child chains begin to take shape, but since this is a PoA sidechain with only 21 validators I'm much more excited about all the imminently launching implementations of the Plasma spec that will be fully cryptographically secured by the L1 rather than using a bridge mechanism.

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Zarigis Yesterday

I'm trying to understand the value in this. How interopable are POA sidechains with Ethereum main chain? Who are the block producers for this chain?

I feel like this is an odd stopgap, until ERC865 gets in.

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rich_at_makerdao Technical Community Manager Yesterday

The main value I'm interested in is around UX; this brings transparent micropayments to dapps right now. Onboarding people in emerging economies is a non-starter as soon as you have to explain that, at random times in the future, maybe, the network is going to charge you a dollar in fees. Or maybe 2 cents. Or maybe $3.92. Or who knows... And also, it's denominated in a different kind of money called 'Ether', so just pull out your credit card and head to Coinbase... Someone who is making $10 a day, or dealing with runaway inflation, or receiving a remittance, doesn't want to deal with a speculative transaction fee. This parallel chain allows wallet providers or dapp owners to move Dai around for micro pennies without having to charge a second currency.

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ziggy_poa Yesterday

You can try the interoperability part right now. https://dai-bridge.poa.network Navigating to the above link will take you to a DApp which will allow you to transform any Dai tokens from Ethereum mainnet you have to xDai on the xDai Chain. If you want to change your xDai back to Ethereum mainnet Dai, simply change the network to the xDai Chain RPC and repeat the steps above. Resources for connecting: https://poanet.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360010427673-xDai-Chain-resources There are numerous values to this: In this new chain, you have the stability of Dai but also the benefits of faster and cheaper transactions. As noted in the post, 500 transactions in this new chain will cost less than 1 cent. We can also foresee multiple usecases for this, where DApps can make use of the multiple benefits of Ethereum based network without the hindrance of volatile gas prices in USD.

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Zarigis 1 h ago

Can you elaborate a bit on how trusted this bridge is? Are we just trusting the bridge operator to honour the balance on either side or is there some cryptographic guarantee that I'll receive xDai for my Dai and vice versa? Also I'm still curious who the block producers of this chain are and how they were or will be selected? It seems reasonable that they should have some stake in Maker to keep them honest.

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psswrd12345 Yesterday

Awesome, thank you for this. Just transferred 1 dai to xdai for shits and giggles. How would I go about transferring this xdai to a different address on the xdai chain?

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Mr_R_Andom 2 hs ago

So what was the "very boneheaded decision"?

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biglambda special needs investor. Yesterday

Here's a quote from the interview (my emphasis)

I was a Bitcoin believer, I got in very early, but I never traded because I considered trading to be absurd. I watched trading religiously on second monitors trying to understand exactly what was happening. In early 2017, right after the SEC denied the ETF, I decided to do some more research. My position in Bitcoin was “cannot afford to lose this much money.” So, with the SEC concerned about manipulation, and the logic of “I can always buy back in if I feel the SEC is wrong.” I got out completely and started digging more.

I'll just leave this here:

https://imgur.com/a/GE79Qlm

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csasker Yesterday

Immediately Bitcoin prices crashed in response. Interestingly, the prices recovered within a few days despite the fact that the news was very bearish. There was no clear reason why. There was one more crash, and then that’s when prices started bleeding up for no publicly known reason.

Ah the "smart analyst" trying to play the markets again. No one cares about why , this is like top 5 rules for traders but whatever

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briatx Yesterday

Great interview. You are doing gods work, Bitfinexed.

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jpdoctor Yesterday

And somehow Bitfinex'ed managed to not explain how Tether has pulled the wool over the eyes of the CFTC for almost a year now.

Maybe the CFTC is a bunch of noobs who don't know how to enforce a subpoena?

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crypt0troll Yesterday

This guy keeps saying a lot of “I suspect” with no facts. A lot of this is just one angry person’s opinion and not always based on facts. Says he’s out of crypto and doesn’t believe in it but is so into bashing bitfinex and tether. What’s to gain here? Get a life

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rapemyradish Yesterday

The FACT that Tether has never been audited (a procedure that would take less than a week, no problem if everything was above board), in spite of supposedly taking in over 2 billion dollars in investments... that's a pretty strong suspicion. It's also a FACT that the auditors they called in last year to try to do an audit took a look at their books and then ran for the hills.

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albinopotato Yesterday

The FACT is that you have no idea why they have not publicly posted an audit. It's also a FACT that we have no idea why their previous auditors actually left.

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slashfromgunsnroses Yesterday

The explanation so far has been that doing a full audit reveals their banking relations which will close off fiat streams. This also means that the auditor cant do a real audit proving anything and wont put their names up for that. Make of that what you want. Maybe you can explain to me why bitfinex goes though all the trouble of "printing tethers" in open daylight instead of just... you know, putting a couple of zeroes on their USD balance sheets on the exchange and buys all the bitcoin they want instead?

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ForthOfHors Yesterday

>Maybe you can explain to me why bitfinex goes though all the trouble of "printing tethers" in open daylight instead of just... you know, putting a couple of zeroes on their USD balance sheets on the exchange and buys all the bitcoin they want instead? I think it's because if they print tether and buy bitcoin with tether, the tether can be transferred to other exchanges and used on those exchanges to buy other crypto. This collateralises the scam. Whereas if they "print USD" at Bitfinex and buy crypto with it, then they're on their own and will quickly get found out like Mt Gox. Bitfinex'ed gives some answers explaining that tether is very clever for exactly this reason, because if tether goes down, all exchanges that trade tether pairs go down. I \*think\*.

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slashfromgunsnroses Yesterday

That makes no difference. They could just as well buy any other crypto and transfer somewhere else to trade. At the end of the day bitfinex is tether. It doesn't matter if they give their customers non-existing tethers, or give them non-existing USD for their crypto. In case of both scams and the bitfinex guys are busted it won't matter for a second that its only people on the bitfinex exchange who are owed a big bunch of money (though fake USD), or if its a mix of people on bitfinex and elsewhere who are owed a big bunch of money (though fake tether). A court wont for a second go "oh you printed fake tethers, well how smart are you guys". No, they will still owe a fucking lot of money that they don't have. And it won't "collateralize" the scam to other exchanges just because they allow the trading pair there. Its no different that bitconneeeeeect going to 0. It will suck for people holding tether. And it will suck for the exchanges *actually owning* (not just trading) tether, to the extent that they hold tether in reserves, but that still wont "collateralize the scam". The guys behind tether (or the analogous fake usd scam) will be exactly as liable in both cases, for the exact same amount of money.

1

albinopotato Yesterday

This person is a total lunatic. Whether USDT is legit or not, paying any attention to them is doing yourself a huge disservice.

0

galaspark Yesterday

Why's that?

3

ODIMARIAOMASCHERANO Yesterday

Stop giving this mentally ill individual attention

0

Zeryth Yesterday

2 days old account, nice troll.

7

a9b331 Yesterday

FUD FUD FUD.

This 'inteview' is a proof that this Bitfinex'ed person is either a banker with a secret agenda or just a salty no-coiner who's regretting while I'm cruising down the streets in Lambo.

/s

5

hemto Yesterday

I don't understand how things went from BFX tokens to tether to tether being the backbone of all cryptocurrency trading, especially how Bitfinex could come out ahead while trying to maintain the prices of these tokens and how the crypto market could just be fine with all of this for so long.

5

BrettDidNothingWrong Yesterday

Same way GAW miners evolved into PayCoin and then attempted to evolve into an exchange before landing in prison.

3

EemOrtigosa Yesterday

Simple. Short term greed everywhere

4

shockeruh Negative | Karma CC: 534 Yesterday

I have to admit this FUD is very intelligent, "institutional investors aren't coming to pump your coins because omg tether"

0

Crypto_To_The_Core Yesterday

Woah, dynamite. Hats off to you Binfinex'ed.

3

SilverGryphon Yesterday

Don't be so negative and go all in

5

DevastationDaddy 2 - 3 years account age. 25 - 75 comment karma. Yesterday

So many noobs on reddit.

5

HopeFox Yesterday

Huh. I never picked Bitfinex'ed as a recovering butter. I guess it's how he has the interest and patience to analyse exactly how the exchanges are being fraudulent, rather than the "Well, duh, they're crypto exchanges, of course they're fraudulent" attitude that, say, I have.

28

MySabonerRunsOladipo Yesterday

Or a recovering hardcore Libertarian. Love towards the end when the interviewer asks if his views have changed and gets a no then two questions later gets a "well, yeah, maybe we do need more regulation". Not all rules are awful.

19

SpaceDetective Yesterday

He still uses his Ayn Rand tribute username here (AtlasRand1) so he still has some recovering to go.

9

dgerard Yesterday

I bet the early bitcoiners will be *delighted* to hear that Bitcoin turns libertarians statist.

13

SaltyPockets Yesterday

\> Huh. I never picked Bitfinex'ed as a recovering butter. They've been quite open about it on twitter in the past - which of course has butters shouting about it all being lies from someone bitter that they sold before the ATH.

11

BobUltra Yesterday

He/She is probably emotionally attached if he or she is in it long enough.

4

Cthulhooo Yesterday

A disillusioned idealist, they really created themselves a dangerous foe.

18

Crypto_To_The_Core Yesterday

Yep, also a well connected foe.

9

BornoSondors Yesterday

I'm afraid Bitfinexed (and us, too) is a little "boy that cried wolf"

If you shout "it will crash and collapse" every day, people will stop listening.

It will probably crash one day, but it (meaning, Tether/Bitfinex) has surprisingly staying power. They always somehow find a way to get around their latest shit.

8

briatx Yesterday

It's not "crying wolf" if there's smoke. And there's a lot of smoke.

5

Mr_R_Andom 2 hs ago

The wolf is on fire?

1

Ermeter Yesterday

Bitfinex just introduced distributed banking to get around their latest shit.

3

MySabonerRunsOladipo Yesterday

Who's down voting this? It's the entire reason for this sub. Crypto is a giant scam that's yet to collapse and every other Bart we get some knob with a "happy now no coiners" post. You can be right all along but the ignorance during the death spiral is still annoying.

13

thehoesmaketheman Yesterday

I'm not getting the point you two are trying to make? What are we doing wrong?

7

MySabonerRunsOladipo Yesterday

It's not about doing anything wrong, it's just about being patient. Have you even seen a crime thriller where the cops are closing in on the bad guy and just as the kick down the door and the dramatic music builds...he slips away? That's Crypto. It's a 7 layer dip of fraudulance. Tether is 100% funbux, but you're crazy if you don't think Bitfinex isn't going to think up and try increasingly crazy shit to keep themselves propped up. In a regulated market, maybe they'd be done by now, but in Crypto, who the hell knows. We know where it's headed, the only real bitch is that there isn't a way to short it that isn't also part of that fraudulent market.

3

thehoesmaketheman Yesterday

Yea anyone trying to call it is dumb, because you can't call crypto, which is why r/bitcoinmarkets is one giant fucking joke and every person in there is a joke who should have to wear clown makeup for like a year. I haven't noticed it as a problem around here. People got a little too excited when tether hit .87 I'll give you that, but shit, it's been a pretty dry summer for gold with bitcoin just sitting in the 6s. It is a bitch that there is no way to short this stuff. In the US that I know of.

1

PM_PICS_OF_GOOD_BOIS Yesterday

Lots of people make posts about "any day now!" and "it's finally happening!" and what's basically trying to be said is you can be right ultimately in the end but in the mean time people are taking everything to be that it's over and then Binfitx manages to pull something out and hold the market up a little longer. I personally can see them keep it up for a while longer still and wrap it up to butters that "everything is fine we just need time. New tech!!!" They could probably do that forever until a clampdown from the Fed, even

10

thehoesmaketheman Yesterday

Yea anyone trying to call it is dumb, because you can't call crypto, which is why r/bitcoinmarkets is one giant fucking joke and every person in there is a joke who should have to wear clown makeup for like a year. I haven't noticed it as a problem around here. People got a little too excited when tether hit .87 I'll give you that, but shit, it's been a pretty dry summer for gold with bitcoin just sitting in the 6s.

4

SaltyPockets Yesterday

I'm sure BitFinex'ed appreciates the old truism - the market can stay irrational for longer than you can stay solvent.  I don't think it's so much crying wolf, the problem does exist after all, but I agree that people will ignore it after a while. It's not just in this case, happens in politics a lot. If the party or politician in power can just ignore something for long enough, people start to consider it old news and make excuses for them.

25

ChiTownBob Yesterday

>I'm sure BitFinex'ed appreciates the old truism - the market can stay irrational for longer than you can stay solvent. Yup. Bill Ackman learned that the hard way about Herbalife.

3

Bitbaby11111 Redditor for 30 days. Yesterday

What noobs in crypto fail to understand is institutional investors need Bitcoin. Bitcoin doesn't need institutional investors. For some reason this normal market cycle stage makes everyone lose brain cells. Imagine we were racing toward 30k again. Do you think people would be begging for big money to move into crypto or laughing that they aren't?

Don't let the market cycle turn your brain to mush. Bitcoin is huge and growing and will be much much bigger in the future. People will need it...

6

adun-d 6 months old | 81139 karma | Karma CC: 430 BTC: 70 Yesterday

Wait for the inevitable coming global economic crash. 2008 gave us bitcoin, 2020 will be the next major step.

0

Bitbaby11111 Redditor for 30 days. Yesterday

agree. but it might be sooner than 2020 though. i sense next year lots of things are gonna shtf

1

Toyake 10539 karma | Karma CC: 2637 BTC: 1657 Yesterday

Bitcoin needs literally anyone right now. Institutions don't need bitcoin even remotely. There is 0 rush for people to buy bitcoin.

5

Kastelukannu 9 months old | Karma CC: 163 NAV: 437 Yesterday

Why do institutional investors need Bitcoin? Please elaborate! Regarding the market cycle: If the market was pumped by Tethers printed out of thin air as it obviously and unfortunately is the case what do you think will this mean ofr the market cycle?

0

Bitbaby11111 Redditor for 30 days. Yesterday

Use a log chart my love. I can't explain economics to you if you don't actually understand BTC beyond pumping and dumping ur gonna have to read up. The cycle is clear and has been fractal since under a buck. A little tether pump doesn't change anything.

0

Kastelukannu 9 months old | Karma CC: 163 NAV: 437 Yesterday

Your reply is the "easy way" out, sorry. I'd like to hear it from you. Was this also your response to this question: "Why do institutional investors need Bitcoin? Please elaborate!"

2

Bitbaby11111 Redditor for 30 days. Yesterday

wot? I just answered.

0

Kastelukannu 9 months old | Karma CC: 163 NAV: 437 Yesterday

Nope. I had two questions and you didn't reply on them, but instead told me to "read up". It is an "answer" per se, but it would be like asking someone with a watch what time it is and that person replies to look it up yourself somewhere. I'm sure you understand that.

4

Bitbaby11111 Redditor for 30 days. Yesterday

You sound like a college kid dick. but putting that aside.  Can you just state your question without the convoluted ass backwards double negative way you are doing so. Just a simple fucking sentence with a question mark at the end if you could be so nice. Then maybe I'll answer best I can.

0

Kastelukannu 9 months old | Karma CC: 163 NAV: 437 Yesterday

Wow, what a rude attitude! Not really a good basis for discussion, especially since I get the imperssion that you are not interested in a proper discussion. I can repeat the questions I mentioned above again for you: "Why do institutional investors need Bitcoin? Please elaborate! Regarding the market cycle: If the market was pumped by Tethers printed out of thin air as it obviously and unfortunately is the case what do you think will this mean ofr the market cycle?"

3

Bitbaby11111 Redditor for 30 days. Yesterday

ur questions are Bizarre cause I clearly by saying the question its meant to be answered, can u answer it? And also a clear message I don't think they are essential. Why I won't go into deep elaborate answer is cause you need more than a few sentences IF like I said you dont understand bitcoin as the perfect currency and safe haven asset. Look dummy do you think any 'Institutional investor' would invest in Bitcoin for charity? They invest cause they want to make money or safe haven etc. NOOOOOO one will invest in bitcoin to help crypto. Its bizarre people think they need to be courted. They will buy cause they need the safe haven as other assets and markets crumble.  And I said it mean NOTHING fo the market cycle. tether is a pimple on the ass of a mile wide ass. IT IS NOT IMPORTANT. And I said go look at a log chart to see how little even this last rise is in the bigger log picture. Ive answered you already. But you are too educated and dumb to realise it. Don't waste my time...

0

Kastelukannu 9 months old | Karma CC: 163 NAV: 437 Yesterday

Quite a rude answer again, this tells a lot about you.  I agree that I shouldn't waste my time with you, as you apparently still don't fully understand my questions and are not capable of having a discussion without insults. You gotta work on that! ;-) 

3

Kastelukannu 9 months old | Karma CC: 163 NAV: 437 Yesterday

That bitfinex'ed guy is regularly accused of spreading FUD, but it is clear that Tether and Bitfinex are engaged in a large scaled fraud. It also seems clear that last year's price surge was the result of Bitfinex'/Tether's market manipulation. With this standing in the room, do you think that any sane "professional" or "institutional" investor will enter the market (unless they have information that the majority doesn't have)? They might as well wait for the Tether-Bitfinex scam to implode which would bring crypto prices to a new bottom before they enter, if they enter after that falling down at all.

I hope that I'm wrong, but I rather feel, I should have sold everything in December....

2

aesthetik_ Karma CC: 1156 ETH: 722 Yesterday

"It seems clear" is not the same as "there is evidence". Correlation does not equal causality. Regardless, yes you probably should have sold everything in December!

1

Toyake 10539 karma | Karma CC: 2637 BTC: 1657 Yesterday

There is 0 evidence that tether is solvent. That should we worrying.

4

adun-d 6 months old | 81139 karma | Karma CC: 430 BTC: 70 Yesterday

Deposit tether to bitifinex and withdraw fiat. It's working and there is no problem. There is your evidence

1

Toyake 10539 karma | Karma CC: 2637 BTC: 1657 Yesterday

Okay, now do that with 2B+ tether

1

adun-d 6 months old | 81139 karma | Karma CC: 430 BTC: 70 Yesterday

No problem, pocket change

0

Kastelukannu 9 months old | Karma CC: 163 NAV: 437 Yesterday

Funny, I was expecting someone commenting this. Seems to be a commmon tactic to focus on whether one writes "It seems clear...", "Everything indicates that...", "It probably is...", etc instead of commenting on the actual topic.

2

aesthetik_ Karma CC: 1156 ETH: 722 Yesterday

Sorry, didn't mean to attack the language - more point out that the opposite could also be true. Price run up = issuance of tether. I don't have a horse in either race, but I haven't seen an argument for manipulation (in whatever form) that goes beyond "these two things happened at the same time". Solvency is a different question, and probably more important...

0

Kastelukannu 9 months old | Karma CC: 163 NAV: 437 Yesterday

There is [this report](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3195066) with the hypothesis that Tether was used to manipulate bitcoin prices last year. Below an excerpt from the conclusion:  "*By mapping the blockchains of Bitcoin and Tether, we are able to establish that entities associated with the Bitfinex exchange use Tether to purchase Bitcoin when prices are falling.*" \[...\] "Overall, our findings provide substantial support for the view that price manipulation may be behind substantial distortive effects in cryptocurrencies."  One might argue that this is not the famous "smoking gun", but it is a strong indicator that price manipulation has taken place in the Tether-Bitfinex case. Solvency and the promised, but still missing audit of Tether are a different question, but I would see them as a still as part of the whole. The accusation is that Tethers were printed out of thin air and that these Tethers were used to buy BTC. An audit should shed light also on this case. After all everyone needs to make up their mind on his/her own regarding this topic. I would be glad if this accusations were false, but I'm afraid they are not.

3

Wamm3s Yesterday

No way! When prices were falling, BTC was traded for a stable coin? That must be fraud….or is it just good sence to trade a falling asset for a stable coin? And with increasing demand for Tether, more Tether was required to keep supply balanced with demand. Those things are printed out of thin air just like any other currency, fiat or crypto. There is no proof that tether was used to manipulate the price of BTC. There is only FUD, conspiracy and cicumstantial evidence.

0

Kastelukannu 9 months old | Karma CC: 163 NAV: 437 Yesterday

I guess time will tell, probably rather sooner than later.

1