Token Daily

mungojelly 3 months ago

fallback_addr: Leave a BTC address in the invoice in the event the LN payment fails. That way the payer can resort to sending you an on-chain transaction at the "fall back" address to complete their payment.

route_hints: The person creating the invoice fetches all available private channels connected to their LN node and leaves them as clues for the payer. This will increase the payer's chances of making a successful payment.

jesus christ

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DisastrousCheesecake 3 months ago

route_hints are not intended to give a full route, but only to provide information about the last hops to the payee. The primary use case for them is that the payee does not necessarily need to announce his node or any of their channels to the network. They might be behind a firewall which can't receive incoming connections. The private channels which they have open with another node is never broadcast, but if that peer's node is publicly accessible, then the payee simply provides that node ID and the SCID of the channel they have open with it, and a payment can be made. This also has the benefit that the payee never needs to reveal their IP address to anybody other than their direct peer, providing some improvement of privacy and making them less vulnerable to DoS attacks. The payee can signal multiple separate routes if they have multiple private channels open.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

it's a rube goldberg that doesn't even come close to working the lies about privary are particularly rich

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

Of all the things I mention, that's what you focus on? Lol.

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DisastrousCheesecake 3 months ago

Can you provide more explanation of AddIndex? This isn't part of the BOLT11 spec. My understanding is that a payment_hash cannot be reused once a payment has been successfully made with it, because the preimage for that payment hash has already been revealed. If any service wants to offer repeated services, they must provide a new payment_hash for every payment, and hence, a new BOLT11 invoice.

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

Yea so these are invoice features within lnd. Not sure if they're available in other implementations. The payment_hash isn't reused. AddIndex just adds a # to the invoice that is trackable. So as more invoices are created, the node looks for the # to catch up.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

the whole situation is just awkward, on the one hand people are patiently explaining how it can't possibly be reliable, while on the other hand the people making it are simultaneously arguing that it's fine and also writing into it how it'll fallback when it doesn't work because it can't possibly

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

Did you not read my explanation? It's in Beta. That's like expecting software to run perfectly the first time you write it.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

it's in alpha no, it's in proof-of-concept and it's never coming out

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

It's already here...

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mungojelly 3 months ago

"it" is a system that can't possible work that's meant to fallback on "BTC," which itself is now designed to get clogged, and there's no backup for the backup, so it's not actually even a fakely working system

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

What do you mean it’s designed to get clogged? I think you should understand and study how it works for yourself instead of propaganda.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

i mean they intentionally manipulated a parameter, MAX_BLOCK_SIZE, to intentionally clog the system, for their personal profit and aggrandizement it is a weird story so i can understand finding it unbelievable, but it did in fact happen, so strange is our this world

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ecurrencyhodler 3 months ago

Who do you mean by “they?” A significant portion of the community didn’t want to increase the blocksize. Those who did forked away. It had nothing to do with crippling anything but making sure anyone could run a full node if they wanted to. It’s sad to hear people are getting brainwashed into that narrative.

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DemonPuke 3 months ago

Holy fuck have some patience, these developers are selflessly devoting their own time and dedication to pave the way for new technology and make it work, it wont happen over night, it will take some time and when it does finally fully release you can damn well know people like myself will be supporting it and using it. How would you like it if you had a bunch of autistic monkeys on your back while you try and design something as crazy and intense as the lightning network? one small mistake and you're messing with people's bitcoin. Give them as much time as they need.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

don't use autistic as an insult also stay away from the lightning network, it will never be finished

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DemonPuke 3 months ago

That is terrible advice, especially when it is working and growing. payments are super quick and reliable and we should be supporting the devs and giving them as much time as they need.

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mungojelly 3 months ago

how long would we have to wait before it would be fair to say that it's failed

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DemonPuke 3 months ago

When there are Zero nodes, Zero Channels, Zero BTC inside the network, No developers contributing/working on it, And Zero people supporting it but for some reason all of those things I listed off continue to grow over time. Please have an open mind when it come's to a project with this magnitude and work before having such a dead set negative outlook on it when things are susceptible to change. And on a side note i consider bitcoin still in some sort of early stage it just recently became Ten years old. We still have a long way to go my friend. !lntip 1000

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ABitcoinAllBot 3 months ago

Here is the link to the original comment thread. Or you can comment here to start a discussion. Author: ecurrencyhodler

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jps_ Yesterday

A long time ago someone thought it would be a good idea if we hired professionals to build and administer the roads, bridges and other infrastructure. They found various places in the economic flow of things to extract a small amount, and called it a "tax".

The administration of the system by which the tax is dispersed for everyone's benefit came to be known as "government". Unfortunately, people being people, this system incentivized clever but lazy individuals to come up with creative ways to grab as much of the tax handout for themselves, while doing as little legitimate work possible, thus requiring additional layers of regulation and oversight to make sure that the administrators of the tax coffers did so diligently and fairly, which further increased the costs and the need for more taxes... which we of course all abhor as "bloated government intervention".

TLDR; "Here we go again."

Are you sure this is a good hill to die on?

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

> A long time ago someone thought it would be a good idea if we hired professionals to build and administer the roads, bridges and other infrastructure. They found various places in the economic flow of things to extract a small amount, and called it a "tax". It's not clear to me what you are talking about or what point you are making. Are you speaking in parable? Are you saying that roads + bridges are bad things? Are you implying that because one system of taxation is flawed, that all taxation is corrupt? > Are you sure this is a good hill to die on? I dont think you're reading ERC 1789 in sections, as it was written. Nor is to clear to me you have read the ERC. From the ERC: > In this ERC, I will break down my argument into four basic sections: > 1. Why ecosystem stewardship is important > 2. Why ecosystem stewardship inflation funding is the right approach > 3. Administration of funds > 4. Tuning of parameters > My goal for this ERC is to establish a strong argument for (1). Stewardship is the most important driver of long-term value creation in the Ethereum space, and open source communities more broadly. Rewarding maintainers of Ethereum is critical. I am willing to die on this hill.

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burrrata Yesterday

> Rewarding maintainers of Ethereum is critical. I agree that this is essential. Altruism is not a game theoretically strong strategy. We need sustainable cryptoeconomic mechanisms to support the community :) > I am willing to die on this hill. Just out of curiosity, what would that look like? lol

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jps_ Yesterday

I am speaking in parable, yes. And if you'll allow me to continue, tax hill is littered with corpses.

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huntingisland Yesterday

20% is too high, IMO
Capture of a large stream of mandatory payments is a huge potential governance / organizational capture problem
Ethereum will be criticized for adding a mandatory fee (it will be called a tax)
There is a high likelyhood that the Ethereum community cannot come to consensus on this proposal and if forced through, it would lead to a blockchain split
There are other options that do not require adding a mandatory fee

My preference is to use the power of defaults and social pressure to have a much smaller inflation fee that will go to an infrastructure fund. Stakers will have the option to direct to a different community fund of their choice (including, in the end, their own account). There will be an ERC for ETH 2.x coming with this proposal sometime in April. I like the idea of the default recipient using the Gitcoin fund mechanism and distribution approach.

We also have client infrastructure funding proposal in the works using another default fee which will be a proportion of the gas fee for each transaction. This will also be coming in April. This idea came out of some conversations with Vitalik on how to fund infrastructure.

I believe that a voluntarist approach is far less contentious and far more likely to get community support and approval and avoid forking the community.

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

ONE. 20% fee is at least several hard forks out, if it happens at all. heres the timeline the working group is pursuing https://github.com/gitcoinco/ERC-1789/issues/21 TWO. yep, the working group understands the scale of hte problem and is is on it. FOUR. the working group understands the importance of avoiding a chain split. they're taking it seriously. FIVE. Thanks for the ideas! Want to join the working group telegram group and float some of these ideas? There is one for the inflation funding group, one for the wallet group, and one for the general "how do we fund OSS" group.

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huntingisland Yesterday

Appreciate the answers! Yes, would very much like to join the working group Telegram, thanks for the invite!

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

Cool. And thanks for the direct & tough feedback. Important to make sure all dissent is heard as we design the EIPs.

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huntingisland Yesterday

👍

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burrrata Yesterday

That's a good point that a mandatory fee is likely to be viewed as a tax. Overall are you saying that it's better to set defaults that fund the commons, but give people the choice to opt-out if they want?

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huntingisland Yesterday

> Overall are you saying that it's better to set defaults that fund the commons, but give people the choice to opt-out if they want? Yes.

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burrrata Yesterday

Cool. I agree that's a much stronger approach that fits into the overall ethos of the community :)

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burrrata 1 day ago

Oh no... you're going to die on a hill too? I mean I'm all for inflation funding the commons, but not on a hill. Not in a box or with a fox either. I will not die on a hill. I will not do it /u/owock

Now that that's out of the way... yeah I agree 100%. Inflation funding the commons is a winning strategy. First we need better mechanisms for stakeholders in the ecosystem to signal their preferences and have a say in governance, even if it's rough. As is we can't even change the mods on /r/ethereum or ship planned upgrades in a coordinated fashion. We need better infrastructure to support the community before we can decentralize fund management, but we need funds to build out that infrastructure. Yay life...

Thanks for sharing all those resources though. I had no idea there was a "business models ring." Is there a reason you guys didn't add it as a ring on the ethereum-magicians.org forum? Also, why so many group chats on Telegram rather than Riot or Rocket?

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

Thanks for hte comment. As a 80s kid, I especially appreciate the Dr. Seuss reference. > Inflation funding the commons is a winning strategy It's certainly one option. While the EIP 1789 is somewhat provocative, I'm trying to shift more into a consensus building mode. There are many other good ideas under the sun; Even though the design space of sustainOSS is well trodden, sustainOSS + blockchain is a new design space. > We need better infrastructure to support the community before we can decentralize fund management, but we need funds to build out that infrastructure. Checkout tennagraph. I'm hopeful that it will help us here! > Is there a reason you guys didn't add it as a ring on the ethereum-magicians.org forum? It's on the forum too. But we've found lower engagement on the forum than on telegram.

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burrrata Yesterday

Yeah I've been talking to the Tennagraph team! It's a really cool project :) Where exactly on the forum is it? I don't see a "business models ring" in the [working groups](https://ethereum-magicians.org/c/working-groups)

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

actually it is in the [working groups](https://ethereum-magicians.org/c/working-groups) -- you just have to scroll down.

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burrrata Yesterday

I see the posts on that page, but I meant organizing them as a ring so that it shows up in the the drop down filter on the top left. Like "token ring", "signalling ring", "education ring", etc... Then you can see all the posts related to that ring all in one place vs scattered throughout the other posts :)

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

its posted at https://ethereum-magicians.org/t/forming-a-ring-business-models/1450 -- maybe it needs to be moved to 'working groups'?

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burrrata Yesterday

There's [guidelines on how to form a ring](https://github.com/ethereum-magicians/scrolls/wiki/HOWTO-Form-A-Ring) and a [template](https://github.com/ethereum-magicians/scrolls/wiki/Ring-Charter-Template) to make it happen. Having the ring visible on the forum would provide more visibility and make it easier for people to get involved. That way when people hear about the Ethereum Magicians and are looking for ways to contribute, if they're into the cryptoeconomics of sustainable FLOSS they'll see the ring and can check it out :)  Edits: - Going through the magicians forum post, then the GitHub, and all the other forum posts linked to from there. It would be 10X easier to get updated and contribute if all that stuff was tagged and organized in one place. Creating a ring/working group on the Ethereum Magicians forum and putting everything there would really help. - Also, how would you feel about creating a Riot group and bridging it with the Telegram group? Then if people want to use more secure and open source tools they can, but don't have to.

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owocki Gitcoin (ConsenSys) - Kevin Yesterday

totally down to create a riot group and bridge it with telegram. DM me if you want to work together on that. also added the guidelines on how to form a ring to my TODO list

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DrTushfinger 15 hs ago

What the fuck jannies I am literally shaking...

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Wubzen Yesterday

Time to make reddit/voat alternative on deep web, I guess.

Would be great for info sharing on european and american honeypots for chinese hackers, hard to discuss it in open web.

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SuperFLEB Yesterday

Time to call support, I guess.

"THE WEBSITE IS DOWN!"

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Coldfriction Yesterday

Net neutrality would have forbidden this ISP behavior. Too bad the conservative talking heads believed it was too much government oversight in the US. Can't infringe on the ISPs right to censor you know.

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TheWorldisFullofWar Yesterday

Then those same conservatives started spewing shit about Twitter and Google censoring them and banning their accounts. You can not get dumber than the average American conservative. Don't even understand the things they are against.

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neglectoflife Yesterday

It's honestly really funny watching them hang themselves, I even told them they would be the first on the chopping block.

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estonianman Yesterday

Let’s take a moment and laugh at the hypocrites on this thread who claim to support the intentions of net neutrality and censorship in New Zealand

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maosredbrook Yesterday

Australia has gone to the dark side. Wish we could rip up every treaty obligation we have with them.

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magnoliasmanor Yesterday

The sites refuse to remove a video of someone killing 50 people in cold blood. I mean, we're all for free speech hut maybe we should have standards? Plus 4chan is already back up per the article so it's not like they were blocked for good.

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Kildigs 16 hs ago

> we're all for free speech but You're not for free speech until you drop the "but"

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magnoliasmanor 15 hs ago

Maybe I should have said I'm for free speech as well as a sense of humanity. It's not taking away someone's free speech by telling them not to share the murder of 50 people while they prayed.

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uiy_b7_s4 cancer spreads from the right Yesterday

Look at that, free market helping the fight against terrorism

Thanks libertarian values!

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RuddyOpposition Yesterday

Isn't it strange, how we can have Muslim terrorist attacks all the time. They are so common they don't even make headlines or the evening news. But there is a terrorist attack against Muslims and there is this massive move to ban guns and censor free speech.

Here is a link to the Wikipedia page that tracks terrorist attacks, for the month of January, 2019. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_January_2019 Why does this attack get so much attention? Because it happened in New Zealand, as opposed to Kenya or Colombia or Afghanistan? Or because it was a terrorist attack against Muslims instead of by Muslims?

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handelelrondolo Yesterday

> They are so common they don't even make headlines or the evening news. lol what. The reason is we dont give a shit if its not in the western/first world. Every single muslim terrorist attack that was in the western world was a huge deal, followed by a cleansing of twitter accounts, which the IS and other organizations apparently primarily used to recruit people. Furthermore mosque which are believed to radicalize muslims get closed/inspected quite often as well. So if there was a concentration of radical muslims on the internet, like 4chan apparently is for right extremists, that site would probably be closed as well.

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HelperBot_ Yesterday

Desktop link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_January_2019 *** ^^/r/HelperBot_ ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove. ^^Counter: ^^245546

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RuddyOpposition Yesterday

Thank you, bot!

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jess_albas_twin actual libertarian Yesterday

Can confirm, Telstra and Optus are censoring a bunch of stuff

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DeezNuts1AltAccount Yesterday

I think this is New Zealand freaking out. It seems like American media was this dudes cup of tea. The more the video gets seen the more fringe kids it inspires to do the same.

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Cre8or_1 Yesterday

Telcos is a company though, right? they can ban whatever they want (if the contract with their customers doesn't mention not banning anything)

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cpizzer Yesterday

ha - block the site to avoid giving the shooter a face and name... wait, they gave him a face and name. You go boi!

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jessamk Yesterday

I’ve just called Vodafone to complain about the block and had my account credited $10 to compensate for the restrictions to my service yesterday and today. I think as many ppl as possible should do this, even if it’s a token amount it’s money they are losing.

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remington_smooth Yesterday

So does that mean it was a temporary restriction? If not, you should press them to reduce your monthly bill by $10 since they tacitly admitted that was what access to those services is worth.

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jessamk 10 hs ago

Yes it’s only temporary.

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Staceionaaa Yesterday

Does anyone know if Bestgore was shutdown?

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Staceionaaa Yesterday

I got into liveleak. Wtf do they think this is going to achieve?

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Arrogant_facade Yesterday

Access is back now, for those interested.

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cojoco Yesterday

Also ZeroHedge, which I have heard quoted as a news source on ABC Radio National.

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tookmuhjerb Yesterday

I'm glad our government hasn't gone this far yet. They're still scraping metadata and email but at least I can still go places that I don't tend to go to but still have the option. Fuck fascism.

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missriverstyx Yesterday

Literally nothing but nazis, pedophiles, and really annoying libertarians. Censor them.

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blackhotel Yesterday

Is the internet becoming more authoritarian? Why i never lol

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ishmal Yesterday

What are the "extreme circumstances?" Will there be another attack in the next few minutes? Or is Aus responding like NZ in a hysterical, childish, and emotional manner to a minor event?

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eat_deezNUT5 Yesterday

How can they do that? Besides changing the DNS to 1.1.1.1 should be a work around right? And also net neutrality in Australia is non existent right?

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AssholeEmbargo Yesterday

"Oh but it worked in AUS" has a different meaning now. It also "worked" under Stalin.

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mtndewgood Yesterday

This isn't an answer to any problem

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twawaytrust Yesterday

https://imgur.com/iqnFxu0

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paganel - @paganel Yesterday

> the blog Zerohedge and video hosting platform Liveleak.

Let's say I get why they'd block 4chan and 8chan, but blocking a blog is just over the top. Liveleak I also half-understand, but I also don't approve of it, for a while it was one of the best online video resources on the atrocities committed by ISIS in Syria and Iraq, just hiding our unwanted images under the rug won't help much.

Later edit: For example videos of the Tikrit massacre [1] are only available on Liveleak (I'm talking of the "mainstream" web), YouTube has nothing on it. It is my very strong opinion that we need these images to remain in the public psyche so that we'll try our best not to make the same mistakes again, and by censoring access to this kind of videos we're not helping with any of that.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Speicher_massacre

Daviey - @Daviey Yesterday

And yet, Facebook was the platform that was used to facilitate the live streaming of the horrendous events we saw in New Zealand.

I am looking forward to Facebook also being banned.

QualityReboot - @QualityReboot Yesterday

Good. Ban them all. Force everyone with an unpopular opinion off the major platforms.

While we're at it, let's ban political debate and fake news. Ban NPR and ban Breitbart. Ban religious debate too. If it offends someone, get it off the platforms.

Let's make it so every controversial content and comment is forced off YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook.

It's the fastest way to end centralization.

throwawaysea - @throwawaysea Yesterday

Deplatforming was always a bad idea that puts fundamental freedoms at risk. Now that it has come to telecoms, something has to be done to denounce this trend and stop it. When large privately-owned platforms (e.g. Twitter) or low-level utilities (telecom companies) take action to censor information, it has the same impact and carries the same risks as a government doing it. It stifles expression, exchange of ideas, and imposes personal morality on a broad set of people.

adamrezich - @adamrezich Yesterday

It's not mentioned in this article but from what I understand (and someone please correct me if I'm wrong), "blocking" is happening at the ISP DNS level, and anyone living in these affected areas can simply use a different DNS service to continue using these websites unimpeded.

reuben_scratton - @reuben_scratton Yesterday

Ridiculous. "Hate speech" didn't kill 50 innocent people, a goddamned lunatic with an automatic rifle did.

As Mark Steyn has remarked on this latest moral panic, "Less speech inevitably means more violence - because, if you can't talk about anything, what's left but to shoot up the joint?"

batat - @batat Yesterday

Just found out that Reddit banned /r/watchpeople for the same reason [1]. I believe all these censorship attempts only makes it worse - we're experiencing the Streisand Effect at its best now.

[1] http://fortune.com/2019/03/15/reddit-banned-watch-people-die...

motohagiography - @motohagiography Yesterday

It's hard to get out of ones bubble on this.

From the govts view, they are acting to contain sectarian violence long enough that their society can find a stable equilibrium after a shock.

I don't think appeals to the principle of freedom of speech are meaningful against acts of censorship because it is a tactical response in a perceived crisis and not something that happens under ideal conditions where they can afford to be held to principles.

However, tactical approaches like clumsy censorship signal a deeper weakness that risks exacerbating sectarian resolve in all parties.

Cynically, the solution here may have been to rate limit content they didn't want instead of blocking it outright, which is insidious, but toward the desired outcome of defusing the spread of violence, people who want the content can get it without having to position themselves against the authorities (become outlaws) to do so, while removing it from casual observation. Reddit's quarantines, and Twitter's shadow bans mitigate some of the virality of reactions. Tagging traffic to these sites for slow path processing would have been trivial, and blocking them was an unforced error.

Societies need to respond to events like these by demonstrating unity and strength, which may mean acts of extraordinary tolerance - and not with tactical approaches that make them seem weak and vulnerable to an insurgency.

batat - @batat Yesterday

I'm wondering if it's legal to block sites in Australia simply because "we feel this is the right thing to do"?

calvinqwerty - @calvinqwerty Yesterday

I find the chans interesting. The back and forth between the clans, whoever they represent, mixed with some curious independent posters gives a small picture of what's lurking out there in the darkness. In the private minds. Mostly it's role playing I think.

iooi - @iooi Yesterday

Everyone is okay with restrictions on freedom of speech when it comes to child pornography. But restricting 8chan is suddenly too much?

I'm curious where we draw the line and what the criteria is. It's clear we need a line, since we shouldn't encourage the proliferation of child pornography for example.

But should we tolerate a community that had a "Brent Tratton Appreciation Thread" on the day of the NZ shooting? [1]

[1] http://archive.fo/xmftv

EGreg - @EGreg Yesterday

Ok, I am going to say it.

I am not a free speech absolutist. But with the coming technology, like MaidSAFE and others, it will become possible for people to communicate and say whatever they want, no way to censor. Full stop.

The governments will go back to having moles inside each group they care about, which is more targeted and harder.

For numerous examples of why free speech matters, the other way, look at the latest article on at https://qbix.com/blog

It’s like 3d printed guns, or desktop printers or copiers. Things that governments heavily regulated through gatekeepers now can be produced by anyone.

I will say this... if you add up ALL the mass shootings in the USA they add up to less than 2% of all shootings. And if you add up ALL shootings and killings, including by Boko Haram and so on, we have far less than 100 years ago, 1000 years ago, 5,000 years ago etc.

Steven Pinker was right. We are getting far more peaceful, because of technology. As long as we keep a check on population growth, we may even have enough resources, not too much garbage and sustainable living in every generation.

If anything, Boko Haram (which stands against Western education) is an example of values from hundreds of years ago. They are more violent.

Today’s values are much less violent but they will only survive if we can live sustainably, and that starts with women’s education and having children later.

ryandrake - @ryandrake Yesterday

Called it three days ago [1]. My prediction is the UK is next and the list of sites will be even longer. This horrible event has become a bittersweet gift to politicians who have been waiting for their chance to coerce ISPs into blocking a few more web sites on their "naughty lists".

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19402858

FilterSweep - @FilterSweep Yesterday

Why don’t they remove cloudflare protection on 4/8chan?

ratling - @ratling Yesterday

They and others should permanently block 8chan. TBH if NZ/AUS started DDOSing it I'd be fine with that too but I doubt we're there yet.

The others I don't agree with long term (4chan is 4chan, Zerohedge is moronic but mostly benign, liveleak is concerning but I get why they did it) but 8chan is just cancer.

I get freedom of speech, but there has to be a limit somewhere. Those animals would drop nukes for funsies if they had the opportunity.

Show all comments on Hackernews

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Toyake Crypto God | QC: CC 286 Yesterday

Meanwhile in /r/vzla

https://np.reddit.com/r/vzla/comments/b0gdny/do_venezuelos_realise_that_bitcoin_is_actually/

let me educate you on a little thing called: WE LIVE IN A DICTATORSHIP What are you even talking about? Using crypto would have solved absolutely nothing because:

A- Ports are owned by the state, any influx of anything bigger than a standard box WILL be confiscated (unless you or the courier service you use happen to know the people inside the port and have a way of saving your package from theft). So even if we could purchase things outside, Maduro’s regime will just be like “Kikiriki this shit belongs to me”.

B- People can’t adopt using crypto for common uses because it requires a lot of technical devices that are outside the reach of the majority of people here (yes, your shitty smartphone is better than what people can afford here).

C- it is too volatile, adding that to the already crazy inflation in Venezuela would make things worse.

Also, in case your ass can’t understand Spanish for the news article I linked: Even if you try to mine/use crypto, the Maduro regime will just track you down and put you in jail just because they can, hell even using US Dollars was punishable with jail time, and in here that is a death sentence (think, Cell block 99 from that movie, and that is the nice part of Venezuelan prisons).

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lalalululili Crypto Nerd | QC: CC 68, BUTT 8 Yesterday

pfff those "Venezuelians" have no clue what's good for them (or my bags). Just buy \[mybags\] and problemo solvado!

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Mr--Robot 1 day ago

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/18/on-the-ground-in-venezuela-vs-the-media-spectacle/

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mrmishmashmix 1 day ago

"At least there is one country in the world where Bitcoin is serving a practical value for ordinary citizens rather than speculators."

How lucky we are to have the impartial bbc to tell us what to think, and charge us for the priveledge.

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waterclocks redditor for 1 week Yesterday

Yep. I mean, people are speculating that Bitcoin will have more and more practical value for ordinary citizens in the future. Sounds like they are getting that speculation correct. The BBC is such a disgusting sham.

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Willy Woo - @woonomic

A much needed repository of fundamental research and tools in crypto-asset valuations. Nice work @Ikigai_fund https://t.co/UGB9oQf5gu

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Christopher Wheeler - @Stocktrader

RT @Travis_Kling: 🚨Announcement!🚨 Recently, we at @Ikigai_fund have been hard at work creating the Valuation Depot Surprisingly, we could not find a single source for the growing body of work on crypto valuation. This is our effort to provide that. Feedback welcome! https://t.co/qyRQ9FDL35

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Luke Martin - @VentureCoinist

Any crypto investor that wants to learn more or keep up with the best essays about cryptoasset valuations should bookmark this page created by @Ikigai_fund. It reminds me of the Research Library and Perspectives from @CliffordAsness. Excited to see this develop @Travis_Kling! https://t.co/YoFp36CTPm

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Joel John - @joel_john95

RT @Travis_Kling: 🚨Announcement!🚨 Recently, we at @Ikigai_fund have been hard at work creating the Valuation Depot Surprisingly, we could not find a single source for the growing body of work on crypto valuation. This is our effort to provide that. Feedback welcome! https://t.co/qyRQ9FDL35

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Tuur Demeester - @TuurDemeester

RT @Travis_Kling: 🚨Announcement!🚨 Recently, we at @Ikigai_fund have been hard at work creating the Valuation Depot Surprisingly, we could not find a single source for the growing body of work on crypto valuation. This is our effort to provide that. Feedback welcome! https://t.co/qyRQ9FDL35

107 352

Michelle Varron - @michellevarron

RT @Travis_Kling: 🚨Announcement!🚨 Recently, we at @Ikigai_fund have been hard at work creating the Valuation Depot Surprisingly, we could not find a single source for the growing body of work on crypto valuation. This is our effort to provide that. Feedback welcome! https://t.co/qyRQ9FDL35

99 323

Thomas Lee - @fundstrat

Great idea @Travis_Kling https://t.co/kWoqrvk76X

0 1

Coinigy - @Coinigy

RT @Travis_Kling: 🚨Announcement!🚨 Recently, we at @Ikigai_fund have been hard at work creating the Valuation Depot Surprisingly, we could not find a single source for the growing body of work on crypto valuation. This is our effort to provide that. Feedback welcome! https://t.co/qyRQ9FDL35

54 157

Dan Held - @Dan-Held

Fantastic resource. Travis and the Ikigai team are 🔥 https://t.co/UmSiLO929o

2 8

Pomp - @APompliano

RT @Travis_Kling: 🚨Announcement!🚨 Recently, we at @Ikigai_fund have been hard at work creating the Valuation Depot Surprisingly, we could not find a single source for the growing body of work on crypto valuation. This is our effort to provide that. Feedback welcome! https://t.co/qyRQ9FDL35

40 96

Crypto Bobby - @crypto_bobby

Travis dropping more great resources with names I can’t properly pronounce 👇 https://t.co/1h1B9rxrAQ

1 4

Hunter Horsley - @HHorsley

RT @Travis_Kling: 🚨Announcement!🚨 Recently, we at @Ikigai_fund have been hard at work creating the Valuation Depot Surprisingly, we could not find a single source for the growing body of work on crypto valuation. This is our effort to provide that. Feedback welcome! https://t.co/qyRQ9FDL35

40 102

Joe Kendzicky - @JKendzicky

RT @Travis_Kling: 🚨Announcement!🚨 Recently, we at @Ikigai_fund have been hard at work creating the Valuation Depot Surprisingly, we could not find a single source for the growing body of work on crypto valuation. This is our effort to provide that. Feedback welcome! https://t.co/qyRQ9FDL35

40 101

Marty Bent - @MartyBent

RT @Travis_Kling: 🚨Announcement!🚨 Recently, we at @Ikigai_fund have been hard at work creating the Valuation Depot Surprisingly, we could not find a single source for the growing body of work on crypto valuation. This is our effort to provide that. Feedback welcome! https://t.co/qyRQ9FDL35

40 100

nic carter - @nic__carter

Wow... outstanding stuff. Great repository of resources, articles, and papers https://t.co/nwJydQSPRd

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Robby16 Crypto God | QC: CC 255 Yesterday

Boolish

1

moleccc Yesterday

cool, they use coinify.

but what the hell is this shit?

Was ist der Mindestbetrag, um mit Kryptos zu bezahlen? 200 Franken. Mit diesem Mindestbestellwert werde die Wahrscheinlichkeit einer schnellen Zahlungsbestätigung erhöht, sagt Digitec-Galaxus-Sprecher Alex Hämmerli.

There's a minimum payment amount of 200 SFR (200 USD). Reason? In order to "increase the probability of fast confirmation".

What on earth? Is this a reaction to BTCs high fees? If so this pisses me off and should only be the case for BTC, not the altcoins which don't suffer this problem.

7

pdr77 Yesterday

My average shop at Galaxus is about CHF2'000! And at Digitec, probably more, so this minimum doesn't bother me at all. Free shipping starts at CHF100 anyway. Apart from food (Migros), petrol (Avia) and clothing (Zalando), I buy almost everything from there.

3

moleccc 11 hs ago

> My average shop at Galaxus is about CHF2'000! ok. Seeing they offer a wide variety of stuff I can see how it's not much of a problem in cases where you can batch your shopping.

1

DM2602 Yesterday

Shipping is always free on Digitec, for Galaxus it's starting at 50 CHF. And how often do you order? Once a year, or are you just crazy rich? Because I don't think any normal working person would spend 2'000CHF every other month, what would you buy for so much money? A new TV or PC every other month?

1

__blinks Redditor for less than 60 days Yesterday

>**200 SFR** Probably the expected fee for BTC. 

1

caveden Yesterday

Seriously this is ridiculous.

2

zelex Yesterday

What do we want? Adoption! When do we want it? Last year!

2

ggtheblock Yesterday

This is legit! Who is the payment processor?

1

GeorgAnarchist Yesterday

Minimum value to pay with Crypto is 200 Franken. But with the insane prices in Switzerland this is probably a small value.

5

moleccc Yesterday

And the stated reason for this minimum is "to ensure timely confirmation". What on earth is that about? High BTC fees?

5

tlztlz Yesterday

Correct. I just bought some groceries: Tomato soup 3.80 Lentil salad 4.50 6 eggs organic 5.05 Rootbeet 4.05 1l OJ 3.50 2 can beer 0.5l 3.80 Window soap 2.95 1 cucumber 1.95 Soy drink 1l 3.80 Rice drink 1l 2.95 Cherry tomatoes 350g 4.80 At the end of the money there is so much month leftover...

5

mineum Yesterday

... and who thinks they gonna hodl all these (shit)coins after the transaction?

1

akuukka Crypto God | QC: XMR 134, CC 132, BCH 69 Yesterday

Are small purchases with crypto exempt from capital gains taxes in Switzerland? Can't see this going anywhere if people need to update their Excel sheets every time they buy something.

1

StrangerIsBetter Yesterday

Switzerland does not have capital gains taxes. So even for crypto trading and not just purchases you don't need to keep track of transactions. Just the total worth you hold end of year is important for wealth tax.

3

jpastore Yesterday

So what happens when we have still but mining isn't profitable?

1

YNIQ 1 day ago

Is it really adoption when they don't even touch it? You pay an middle man with your crypto who exchange it to fiat for them.

2

markvertising 2 - 3 years account age. 300 - 1000 comment karma. Yesterday

You can pay with crypto, so it's adoption. And that in a country famous for watches, chocolate and BANKS.

2

eddyramblor Crypto Expert | QC: CC 69, CM 20 1 day ago

Not using Nano?

7

lalalululili Crypto Nerd | QC: CC 68, BUTT 8 1 day ago

The retailer does not accept crypto currencies.

He added a payment processing service that accepts crypto.

There are zero advantages in using crypto this way. Which is not surprising, cause it's the same fucking principle as we already have it, i.e. a centralized entity handling my transactions. Just with bad UX.

It's nothing but a PR stunt, will have very little users, little growth and thus be abandoned in say 1-2 years.

Same story as with all those businesses who accepted crypto before. And then abandoned it again, cause no one uses it.

3

Suuperdad Long term, big picture, drive change Yesterday

This has the potential to be a really embarrassing comment in 2 years.

1

lalalululili Crypto Nerd | QC: CC 68, BUTT 8 Yesterday

This is correct.

1

becks7 New to Crypto Yesterday

So they also don't accept payments with credit cards or some other methods?...because that's all over the same provider Datatrans...

5

lalalululili Crypto Nerd | QC: CC 68, BUTT 8 Yesterday

wtf are you talking? The question is what kind of currency this retailer is accepting. afaik, they only accept CHF (in CH). So, if there is a payment provider, who accepts brainfarts (like yours) and will pay Galaxus with CHF, they don't fucking care.

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Wolf_of_cryptos 1 - 2 year account age. 100 - 200 comment karma. 1 day ago

Check also this new from Finland:

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/b2xd5j/adoption_one_of_the_finlands_biggest_mobile_phone/

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skyn3t007 Redditor for 12 days. 1 day ago

Bullish

1

HurlSly 1 day ago

Yes !!!

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Patrick-J5 1 day ago

Will they also be accepting magic beans?

0

zappadoing 1 day ago

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/b2ux41/switzerlands_biggest_online_retailer_starts/

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mlorenzana12 1 day ago

if i got 1 bitcoin on every time i heard adoption is coming in the last two year, i would hold the same amount of bitcoins as satoshi

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LegendarySpyro 1 day ago

Actually largest e-commerce store in Switzerland with 2.7mm+ products

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Jake123194 Crypto Expert | QC: CC 45, XRP 42, ETH 18 1 day ago

They have products larger than 2.7mm?

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Zouden Crypto Nerd | QC: CC 53 Yesterday

Yeah but nothing smaller. No cous cous.

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LegendarySpyro Yesterday

no but more than 2.7mm individual products

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skuzzadonx Redditor for 4 months. 1 day ago

Hell yeah bro this is sikkkkk dude

1

RoughSavings 1 day ago

well, to be honest it is accepting:

Bitcoin (BTC) Bitcoin Cash (BCH) Bitcoin SV (BSV) Ethereum (ETH) Ripple (XRP) Binance Coin (BNB) Litecoin (LTC) TRON (TRX) OmiseGo (OMG) NEO (NEO)

and all of them through a payment society, so they are still getting paid in swiss francs at the end of the day...

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moleccc Yesterday

> and all of them through a payment society, so they are still getting paid in swiss francs at the end of the day... so? They view crypto as "payment methods", which is totally valid. I see no problem here... we're far away from closed crypto economies of *that* scale. If you pay with crypto, replenish your supply.

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Ant-n 1 day ago

> and all of them through a payment society, so they are still getting paid in swiss francs at the end of the day... No sure why that would be a problem?

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SnowBastardThrowaway Yesterday

It's not a problem, but it's misleading to say they are accepting crypto, when in reality they are just allowing it to be used as an expensive means to pay with fiat.

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moleccc Yesterday

That's not entirely true: the customer gets to enjoy the upsides of using crypto. Example: currently my bank accounts are frozen by tax authorities. No way to pay online using SEPA transfer, my linked credit cards or paypal. Crypto to the rescue.

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SnowBastardThrowaway Yesterday

Nice, so they really get to benefit from that demographic of people who have their bank accounts locked down but also already have crypto. I guess that's... something? Of course, if you didn't already have crypto, you wouldn't be saved by crypto at all. What is really happening here with clickbait articles like this is that a payment service provider like bitpay (in this case Datatrans partnered with Coinify), go in and say "hey, please accept us as a payment service provider." Digitec Galaxus doesn't give two shits about whether that payment service providers accepts crypto or not.

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moleccc Yesterday

> What is really happening here with clickbait articles like this is that a payment service provider like bitpay (in this case Datatrans partnered with Coinify), go in and say "hey, please accept us as a payment service provider." Digitec Galaxus doesn't give two shits about whether that payment service providers accepts crypto or not. true. Still a good thing. > if you didn't already have crypto, you wouldn't be saved by crypto at all. also true. Better be prepared ;-)

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nolo_me Yesterday

It's not. This is what adoption by large retailers looks like: no volatility risk for the merchant. Transactions still get made, people still get to spedn their crypto.

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SnowBastardThrowaway Yesterday

> people still get to spedn their crypto. In most cases, people will be spending their fiat using crypto. Big difference.

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aeroFurious 1 day ago

Full list:

Bitcoin (BTC)
Bitcoin Cash (BCH)
Bitcoin SV (BSV)
Ethereum (ETH)
Ripple (XRP)
Binance Coin (BNB)
Litecoin (LTC)
TRON (TRX)
OmiseGo (OMG)
NEO (NEO)

The article also mentions that the other coins (non-BTC) are so called "altcoins". 🤷‍♂️

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knight222 Yesterday

Yes, no one is accepting BTC only anymore. How does that makes you feel as a member of the Culf of Core?

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Ant-n 1 day ago

> The article also mentions that the other coins (non-BTC) are so called “altcoins”. 🤷‍♂️ crazy /s

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chainxor 1 day ago

Yea..."alt" is the new acronym for "useful".

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moleccc Yesterday

damnit, seems http://alternative.to doesn't exist any more. Was going to look up alternatives to BTC. That site used to be useful for finding products where the market leader has become too expensive or shitty for some reason.

3

todu Yesterday

I liked that site too for the same reasons, so I looked it up on Wikipedia to see why it closed. It hasn't closed and according to Wikipedia the site has this URL and not the one you wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlternativeTo https://alternativeto.net/ Here's the alternatives to BTC according to Alternativeto: https://alternativeto.net/software/bitcoin/

2

moleccc 11 hs ago

cool. pretty good list! some of the "pros and cons" are ridiculous, though: > While Dogecoin is a cryptocurrency like bitcoin, it isn't worth nearly as much lol

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WikiTextBot Yesterday

**AlternativeTo** AlternativeTo is a website which lists alternatives to web-based software, desktop computer software, and mobile apps, and sorts the alternatives by various criteria, including the number of registered users who have clicked the "Like" button for each of them on AlternativeTo.Users can search the site to, for instance, find better alternatives to an application they are using or previously have used, or free alternatives, perhaps choosing a free web application (cloud computing) which does not require any installation and can be accessed from any browser. *** ^[ [^PM](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=kittens_from_space) ^| [^Exclude ^me](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiTextBot&message=Excludeme&subject=Excludeme) ^| [^Exclude ^from ^subreddit](https://np.reddit.com/r/btc/about/banned) ^| [^FAQ ^/ ^Information](https://np.reddit.com/r/WikiTextBot/wiki/index) ^| [^Source](https://github.com/kittenswolf/WikiTextBot) ^] ^Downvote ^to ^remove ^| ^v0.28

1

SnowBastardThrowaway Yesterday

Useful and not being used as much as the non useful one.... interesting....

0

chainxor Yesterday

Not really that interesting. BTC still has the largest network effect stemming from historic head start. It was the first after all. But it also hampered to such a degree that any spike in adoption will choke it (during this bear market the demand for transactions have been way down), and therefore it is INEVITABLE that one or more alts will take over. It will most certainly not be LN, esspecially not in it's current wonky state.

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aeroFurious 1 day ago

I smell salt 🤷‍♂️

0

LovelyDay 1 day ago

check yoself

3

chainxor 1 day ago

Not at all. First off, it is great news for crypto adoption. Second, it is even greater news that "alts" are added as well, since it makes it that more useful and realistic that it will benefit from mass-adoption.

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aeroFurious 1 day ago

I'm fine with altcoins such as BCH being added, I mean BSV was added as well. Doesn't mean that these will get used though. All the "adoption" so far isn't really visible on block sizes. BTW the reason for alts being added is that they are using a multicoin payment processor and not because there was demand for them.

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chainxor 1 day ago

"Doesn't mean that these will get used though. All the "adoption" so far isn't really visible on block sizes." As soon as BTC chokes up again (when it hits 350k-400k tx/day) and fees start to explode the writing will be on the wall. In spades. Just like last time. "BTW the reason for alts being added is that they are using a multicoin payment processor and not because there was demand for them." You don't know that. Might as well be a hedge against the fact that BTC will choke up again.

11

aeroFurious Yesterday

> You don't know that. Wait so you think there was real life demand to pay with BCH, BSV or OMG? 😂

0

chainxor Yesterday

BSV or OMG, propably not. OMG less so. BCH's demand is almost 100% inverse correlated with the congestion of BTC. Past data has shown that in spades. In the months i 2017/2018 where BTC was congested a.f. the number of BCH Bitpay invoices rose significantly. At one point, BitPay even disabled BTC for amounts worth less than $10, whereas BCH kept running smooth. Those are just the facts. Of course lately where ALL crypto usage has gone down and there is less congestion on BTC, the situation is temporarily different. Will it happen again if a new bull cycle comes? Absolutely. Do I believe the bull market will return? I don't know.

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Egon_1 Bitcoin Enthusiast 1 day ago

u/cryptochecker

0

Bagatell_ 1 day ago

Try this one. https://atomiks.github.io/reddit-user-analyser/#aeroFurious

3

Egon_1 Bitcoin Enthusiast 1 day ago

Very nice!! I checked my score.... most used word "cryptochecker" 😆 https://atomiks.github.io/reddit-user-analyser/#egon_1

2

Bagatell_ 1 day ago

also your most downvoted post..

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cryptochecker Redditor for less than 6 months 1 day ago

Of [u/aeroFurious](https://www.reddit.com/u/aeroFurious)'s last **1994** posts (**995** submissions + **999** comments), I found **1887** in cryptocurrency-related subreddits. This user is most active in these subreddits: Subreddit|No. of posts|Total karma|Average|[Sentiment](https://nlpforhackers.io/sentiment-analysis-intro/) :--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:--|:-- r/RaiBlocks|7|22|3.1|**Positive (+37.4%)**| r/Bitcoin|11|95|8.6|Neutral| r/CryptoCurrency|288|4087|14.2|Neutral| r/btc|854|1646|1.9|Neutral| r/Iota|5|16|3.2|Neutral| r/VNL|9|42|4.7|Neutral| r/CryptoCurrencies|359|1424|4.0|Neutral| r/CryptoMarkets|109|1014|9.3|Neutral| r/altcoin|225|887|3.9|Neutral| See [here](https://reddit.com/r/cryptochecker/b2wklf) for more detailed results, including less active cryptocurrency subreddits. *** ^(Bleep, bloop, I'm a bot trying to help inform cryptocurrency discussion on Reddit.) ^| [^Usage](https://www.reddit.com/user/cryptochecker/comments/atbifk/how_to_use_ucryptochecker/) ^| [^FAQs](https://www.reddit.com/user/cryptochecker/comments/ascogw/faq_about_ucryptochecker_2019/) ^| [^Feedback](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=jamcowl&subject=cryptochecker%20bot) ^| [^Tips](https://www.reddit.com/user/cryptochecker/comments/ataajr/tipping_ucryptochecker/)

4

knight222 1 day ago

/u/tippr $0.25

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Egon_1 Bitcoin Enthusiast 1 day ago

✌️✌️✌️

2

tippr 1 day ago

u/Egon_1, you've received `0.00155132 BCH ($0.25 USD)`! *** [^^How to use](https://np.reddit.com/r/tippr/wiki/index) ^^| [^^What is Bitcoin Cash?](https://bitcoincashers.org/) ^^| [^^Who accepts it?](https://acceptbitcoin.cash) ^^| ^^r/tippr ^(Bitcoin Cash is what Bitcoin should be. Ask about it on r/btc)

3

nico8270 Redditor for 5 months. 1 day ago

Definitely nice to have, but they use Coinify for the transactions so you pay a 1.5% service fee. It would be even better if they would use an own wallet.

2

Ab-Al 1 - 2 year account age. 35 - 100 comment karma. 1 day ago

Hahahaha 😂

3

YummaySmoohie 1 day ago

Nano should get added to the list

3

nowTHATScomedy Crypto God | QC: BTC 119, CC 33 Yesterday

Mornin’ shill! How’re ya??

0

YummaySmoohie Yesterday

I see opportunities I shill

3

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moleccc Yesterday

How exactly was "Bitcoin network still up"? Was it usable? How?

1

horsebadlydrawn Yesterday

It's amazing how fragile the world's "money" is... Sweden is probably the scariest situation of all - although I'm not a fan, Richard Heart nailed it.

We should all probably diversify with usable amounts of paper currency, gold/silver, durable goods, and paper crypto wallets.

1

moleccc Yesterday

yes to most stuff you list, but I'm not sure how paper wallets make sense (other than for personal storage): they can't be used as money directly. Not without access to a live blockchain (and with that available a normal wallet is more suitable).

1

horsebadlydrawn Yesterday

Well paper wallets *can* be used as money between trusted parties, perhaps in a zombie apocalypse scenario. Anything can be used as money, the most absurd recent example being [Tide laundry detergent](http://nymag.com/news/features/tide-detergent-drugs-2013-1/).

1

moleccc 11 hs ago

Yes they *can* be used. But actually cigarettes are better, because they're more easy to verify and require less trust.

1

necromax13 Yesterday

Malditos criptoperiqueros de pana creen que las criptos van a salvar las economías de todo el mundo, van a curar el cáncer, llevar a la humanidad a Marte, te llevan hasta tu peso ideal, curan la impotencia, la alopecia, e incluso le enseñan a tu perro a cagar en la poceta, limpiarse, y bajarla.

2

exegg Official Ambassador of the 2021 Guatire's GULAG Yesterday

Epa, ¿cuanto perdiste?

1

necromax13 Yesterday

Cero dollarz, cero cero.

1

west_coast_ghost Yesterday

Stick to writing movies Mr.Coppola lol.

1

Lupibombo 1 day ago

Yo lo que recuerdo es que hay que empezar a hacer la lista de la gente que cobraba verdes por cargar 10 min un celular, o los que vendian bolsas de hielo entre 5 a 8 $. (Valencia)

6

[deleted] Yesterday

[removed]

1

AutoModerator Yesterday

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1

hector_villalobos 1 day ago

Clickbait title. Podemos dejar el hate de un lado. Realmente lo que dice el tweet es que la red Bitcoin siguió funcionando, obviamente no en Venezuela pero si en el resto del mundo.

3

FenixR 1 day ago

La red de tarjetas de credito y debito tambien funcionaba, solo no en Venezuela dah.

0

hector_villalobos 1 day ago

El primer tweet dice que Bitcoin necesita electricidad, también la red de tarjetas de crédito, débito y los bancos, no es un inconveniente solo de Bitcoin.

2

FenixR 1 day ago

Lo lei pero lo que capte de la respuesta fue mas bien algo como "no tu!", acorralado sin nada mejor que decir por decirlo de otra manera o respondiendo solo por querer tener la ultima palabra. Es bastante obvio que problemas de servicio de ambos son similares, sin electricidad/internet/red no funcionan ninguno, que la red Bitcoin siguiera funcionando a pesar del apagón es un logro tan grande como cada respiro que echas cada 5 segundos considerando la situación. Y a la final lo que demostró la situación es lo que todos sabemos, cash es el rey de las transacciones offline y punto.

1

hector_villalobos 1 day ago

El tema es que Bitcoin no nació para ser una alternativa al efectivo, la idea es que sea una alternativa a los bancos, debido a la crisis económica del 2008.

1

FenixR 1 day ago

Y por eso mi comentario, es estúpido recalcar que la red Bitcoin siguió funcionando a pesar del apagón si nadie podía usarlo sin luz ni internet, echo el comentario solo por decir "mírame aquí estoy todavía existo!" o algo así.

1

hector_villalobos 1 day ago

Si, pero el titulo es medio clickbait por que en ninguna parte se dice que el Bitcoin fue la salvación monetaria de Venezuela durante el apagón, solo que bajo ciertos recursos (planta eléctrica y datos móviles) puedes seguir usando Bitcoin.

2

ejacxd Yesterday

This\^ De verdad que parecen carajitos, desde el que dijo que la red bitcoin se mantuvo mientras que la banca caída hasta OP que dijo que nadie usa bitcoin en el país pero que si lo usan como medio de cambio para luego retirarlo en USD o otra moneda lol que contradictorio.

1

unitedstatian 1 day ago

The reason why BCH is far superior to the BTC model is because it supports SPV clients for affordable on-chain tx's, which can be done using an sms or super low bandwidth Internet connection in regions with prolonged low connectivity.

3

Rostacmac Johannes Kaiser 1 day ago

ok, más o menos ?

sólo les faltó decir el petro y tal.

2

SwedishSalsa 1 day ago

Bitcoin could be issued as physical coins redeemable in Bitcoin. And for the first time in history it would be possible for anyone to check the reserves on the Blockchain.

1

moleccc Yesterday

not "redeemable". They'd have to contain the private keys (hidden) and have sufficient authenticity features and a trusted issuer. Like casascius coins, but in lower denominations.

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cinnapear Yesterday

Redeemable where?

1

moleccc Yesterday

on the blockchain by using the private key hidding within. Comes with issues, of course.

1

cinnapear 11 hs ago

So like the Casascius coins?

1

mz3 1 day ago

Lo que resolvió en esos días de infierno comunista fué la moneda símbolo del capitalismo: Los Dolares, cash puro y duro. Quien no lo vió es porque no salió esos días: Supermercados, Hielo, Comida, Agua, Hoteles, Farmacias etc., quien tenía dólares en efectivo fué capaz de abastecerse tranquila y rápidamente de lo que le diera la gana

17

FenixR 1 day ago

Trabajo en un supermercado, can confirm, vaciaron las licorerias esos dias sin luz.... y creo que tambien llevaron comida?

1

Rostacmac Johannes Kaiser 1 day ago

Pagué 20 $ cash por dos paquetes de minalba de 1,5 L (24 botellas), una galleta de soda y una marilú de chocolate en un abasto. No me enteré que el señor del abasto aceptaba satoshis, en cuyo caso tampoco los hubiera usado porque no había luz ni internet...

5

aNewTsk Yesterday

¿Sabes qué es lo arrecho? Que fuera de Venezuela esa mierda no te hubiera costado 10$.

2

Rostacmac Johannes Kaiser Yesterday

Es así. Que loquera...

1

necromax13 Yesterday

Le hubiese costado, en el mundo normal, aproximadamente cinco dólares

2

blaughlin I'm part of the CIA Orchestrated Coup D’État 1 day ago

That comments section was a circlejerk.

Mi experiencia fue completamente diferente, yo no encontré ni supe de ningún negocio que aceptara bitcoins, ni siquiera los supermercados grandes que tenían plantas para correr los puntos de venta, que lo que sí estaban aceptando era dólares en efectivo.

No internet no cryptos.

5

ibaRRaVzLa Saboteador del Guri 1 day ago

Me too, en ningún momento escuché ni vi nada de bitcoins... Solo gente pagando todo en verdes.

3

slashx8 1 day ago

Si, yo recuerdo claramente pagar mis botellones de 20 litro en satoshis.

La realidad es que no había internet ni luz. Es un pequeño fallo que olvidan mencionar, vienen y dicen "bitcoin os salvara de Maduro! arrepentios y convertios pecadores!" pero en la practica te tumban la luz y el internet y estas otra vez buscando golibitas en efectivo para resolver.

5

WeaponizedMath 2 days ago

Not if you were using Lightning Network

5

playfulexistence 1 day ago

If you were using a full Lightning Network node with a UPS inside a faraday cage in an underground bunker with multiple redundant watchtowers then this would not have affected you.

18

f7ddfd505a 1 day ago

Except if the hub you are connected to was down, forcing you to close your channel and losing all your money because the transaction fees on the BTC network were higher than the amount you had locked up in your channel. Truly the money of the future.

7

pecuniology 1 day ago

>Truly the money of the future.  Lightning is the future, and it *always* will be.

3

r2d2_21 Yesterday

Just like flying cars, I see.

4

impossible_try 1 day ago

> Truly the money of the future. Works as intended. Core crooks had a mission to cripple Bitcoin adoption.

6

WeaponizedMath 1 day ago

Don't forget 600 gerbils running in wheels to provide double fault tolerant high availability for the retroturboencapulator!

11

pecuniology 1 day ago

This is where the gerbil and hamster factions go for each others' throats. >Gerbils' tails are too long. They get caught in the wheel and disrupt the spinning. **Hamsters FTW!!!1!**  >Whut?!? Hamsters are fat and they get tired faster than gerbils. **Gerbils FTW!!!1!** 

1

combatopera 1 day ago

LN getting ever closer to /r/VXJunkies

0

spukkin 2 days ago

decentralized micro-grids will make these kinds of problems obsolete.

11

moleccc Yesterday

they've been trying to get critical mass on those mesh-networks for decades now. Hasn't happened yet. Not enough pressure.

1

Kain_niaK 2 days ago

Retarded argument against Bitcoin. You know how quickly ATM's will stop giving you cash notes after the power in your country goes out?

So banknotes and coins need electricity as well. Just in a more indirect way.

Society NEEDS electricity and if your country has to go without it. it's FUCKED.

22

pecuniology 1 day ago

>"Wull, *duhhh...*! I'll just carry around significant amounts of cash in a duffel bag. *hurrrnh... hurrrnh... hurrrnh...* Excuse me, Officer, what? What's in my duffel bag? It's... um... my protection for when the electricity goes out. What? Explain the source of each individual paper note? HEY!!! Where are you taking my duffel bag full of cash?!?" 

2

BTC_StKN 1 day ago

You can find multiple ways to get power for cell phones. P2P works without ATM machines. The major issue would be no Internet/Cell Service.

10

putin_vor Yesterday

Your cell phone is useless without the internet/SMS, both of which need power to operate. You might be able to get some satellite internet powering from a gas generator, but it's not a large-scale solution.

0

BTC_StKN Yesterday

That's what I just said. Perhaps Google or whoever's micro-satellite Internet solution could resolve this.

2

StrawmanGatlingGun 1 day ago

In some countries there are ATM's powered by solar.

2

BTC_StKN Yesterday

Solar and other energy sources are cool. You can even use a hand turned mini-generator to recharge a cell phone if desperate. They have these in hurricane zones for recharging radios to receive emergency broadcast info without need of batteries. Some have USB ports on them for charging devices. The current problem would be Internet Access. Perhaps Google or whoever's micro-satellite Internet solution could resolve this.

3

Zyoman 1 day ago

most of the time but ATM is up but the network is down.

7

horsebadlydrawn Yesterday

Right, ATM can't dispense cash without phoning home and verifying bank credentials. It doesn't store everybody's PIN and account info!

4

thethrowaccount21 Yesterday

Good that people are finally being able to see cryptos superiority versus traditional means of payment now. Before everything just 'worked'. These days, the antifragility of bitcoin is becoming a massive selling point, whether relative to financial control or simple things like 'the power going out'.

1

-arni- 1 day ago

Does cointext work on sat phones?

3

Zyoman 1 day ago

why it would not.

3

ATHSE 1 day ago

ATMs also run out of cash to dispense, that shouldn't be possible on a crypto ATM.

1

bboybz Yesterday

What are you even talking about... Crypto ATM... that doesn't dispense cash. Are you calling your hard wallet an ATM? 🤷‍♂️

1

moleccc Yesterday

Oh my god: crypto is like everyone having an ATM in their pocket... what do we doooo?

1

r2d2_21 Yesterday

Does it, tho? I thought a crypto ATM was more like an automated exchange, where you change bills for bitcoins and vice versa.

1

ATHSE Yesterday

That's my point, it shouldn't run out of crypto to dispense -- unless it never gets any internet connection at which it wouldn't work at all.

1

r2d2_21 Yesterday

But it runs out of bills. You can exchange both ways.

1

ATHSE Yesterday

I guess I was focusing on the fact that crypto ATMs are primarily to fill phones or wallets with something they can then use in personal transactions elsewhere. Sure there may be value in cashing out at times, but that doesn't strike me as the primary need among people using crypto in the first place, especially where the fiat currency is falling.

1

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