Token Daily

The 69-page document, finished in 2016, provided a step by step list of priorities – which were then ignored by the administration.

Every time some mouth-breathing, MAGA-hatted neanderthal talks about the Fatass' leadership, bring this up.

All you The_Donald rejects that are foaming at the mouth REEEEading this right now: I know how much this wounds you. I know how much you want to hit that downvote button just ONE MORE TIME.

And it makes me smile.

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Schlitter_bahn Yesterday

It didn't work for Barry' Swine Flu epidemic... obviously #FAKE Make Work Project by the

Coup-conspirators in the NSC

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CatalyticDragon Yesterday

Yeaah, the right-wing is more likely to burn books than follow them.

1

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1

happycynicalchick Yesterday

Trump's team fails to follow any "book."

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Sooooosickofthisshit Yesterday

I’m sure they burned it with all of the other scientific data and literature the day they defunded they office.

2

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1

HWGA_Gallifrey 1 day ago

Ignoring common sense is kinda his thing. A lot of innocent Americans are gonna die needlessly.

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SCO_1 Yesterday

You're only innocent if you're a child or were prevent from or voted against this fascist worm party.

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Synthwoven 1 day ago

And now people are dying as a result. I feel like we deserve the consequences of electing him.

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SCO_1 Yesterday

More like deserve the consequences of the republican party 'existing' after Gulf War - daddy complex - 2.

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rufusjonz 1 day ago

Same with the Governors & Mayors of New York and most every state.

They issued reports after H1N1 10 years ago that New York needed more ventilators and beds for the next pandemic.

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ctguy54 1 day ago

They did it for a good reason, tump couldn’t read it. Too many words over two syllables.

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KamikazeSkylark 1 day ago

Is it weird that I don’t blame trump? I mean, the guys a snake of stupidity. Snakes bite. I blame the person who stepped on it ie the American people

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UltraMegaMegaMan Wake up and... smell the ashes. 1 day ago

I blame both, but yeah I see what you're saying. I've used the whole "bitch, you knew I was a snake" thing in regard to Trump many times. Consequences exist.

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gillette_man 1 day ago

They elected a man who sits on a golden toilet to shit out KFC at his place in NYC.

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bobwyates 1 day ago

Updated playbook based on newer information instead of relying on old information.

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ccktail999 Pessimist 1 day ago

Not enough pictures. Maybe if it said “You are a big, strong man” every two sentences he would have read it.

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IntnsRed 1 day ago

And now the US leads the world in the number of virus cases (source) -- all thanks to our impeached president!

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IntnsRed 1 day ago

And now the US leads the world in the number of virus cases (source) -- all thanks to our impeached president!

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rufusjonz 1 day ago

Yes it is all thanks to the Orange King, definitely not China. He wants to kill everyone's Grandma. He wants to put a Nazi Flag on the White House. If only there had been analysis after Swine Flu 10 years ago that told the Governors and Mayors of this country what they needed to stock to get their state prepared for the next pandemic.

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strip_sack 1 day ago

donald has a difficult time with a 3 page coloring book.

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DeadlyKitt4 1 day ago

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TheMank 1 day ago

”“While each emerging infectious disease threat will present itself in a unique way, a consistent, capabilities-based approach to addressing these threats will allow for faster decisions with more targeted expert subject matter input from federal departments and agencies,” the playbook reads.

The playbook lays out different strategies for policymakers based on the severity of the crisis and shares lessons gleaned from past outbreaks. For instance, one section is devoted to addressing 34 “key questions” and 21 “key decisions” as soon as there is a “credible threat” — which in the case of coronavirus would have been early-to-mid January, as it raged in China and as the first U.S. case was detected on Jan. 20 — and calls on officials to move quickly.”

...”In a subsequent section, the playbook details steps to take if there’s evidence that the virus is spreading among humans, which the World Health Organization concluded by Jan. 22, or the U.S. government declared a public health emergency, which HHS Secretary Alex Azar did on Jan. 31.

Under that timeline, the federal government by late January should have been taking a lead role in “coordination of workforce protection activities including… [personal protective equipment] determination, procurement and deployment.” Those efforts are only now getting underway, health workers and doctors say.”

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DeatheTongue 1 day ago

He says it every time he has a chance. They threw out the old process and started from scratch. Same as every other so called Obama era policy/document/law/directive. It didn't really matter if the existing process was good, bad, or sufficient... it came from Obama.

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MaxsPandaBalls 1 day ago

Of course they did. It was written above a third grade reading level.

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narlystrategery Yesterday

Airborne

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lalalalalalalala333 Yesterday

And trump is not doing national lock down. Like locking everything down.

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cowhides Yesterday

why in gods name would this group of 60 people gather during a global pandemic, on March 10th? everyone knew the risks by then. stupid is as stupid does, god help us.

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hyperforce Yesterday

March 10 was before everything went down so maybe give them some slack.

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FurfyFurtyFur Yesterday

The CDC and WHO both came out on March 9th to say that shelter in place was the best policy, especially for areas that have active cases. I had a ticket for a Tool show on March 11; the concert was not cancelled but I chose to not go because of this advice.

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crafty_teacher Yesterday

I disagree...the governor closed schools in three counties on the 11th (Skagit Valley is in one of those counties) and the schools in the rest of the state on the 13th. We knew.

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CinderSnowFox Yesterday

He closed schools in King, Snohomish, and Pierce counties on the 12th. Skagit Valley is in Skagit County. Most of us knew what was coming but there was only one confirmed case in Skagit County on the 10th, so it's understandable why some people might have felt alright about going out at that time.

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Bkinkade Yesterday

For anyone confused by the term: chorale means choir.

This was a choir practice. Bellowing loudly in close proximity to other people whom are also breathing heavily.

Perhaps the worst thing to do when infected with a contagious virus that likes living in airways.

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BatSoupLab-4 1 day ago

showed up for cholera and got coronavirus instead

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CentrOfConchAndCoral 1 day ago

45 of 60 all in one meeting that sounds extremely contagious unless there were more than one infected.

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outrider567 Yesterday

Well, the cult in Korea had a huge amount of infections also, just from that one super-spreader, plus Washington State is cold all the time, in the 40's perfect temperature for transmission

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K_t_ice 1 day ago

Yes it does, but they were very forcefully breathing on each other. Probably had an infected person in the back coating all the front rows in spittle.

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WaywardWriter 1 day ago

> The group gathered in rows facing a piano and a choir director. They were all in individual chairs and had space to keep separated. Ms. Backlund had made sure there were extra soap dispensers in the bathrooms for people to wash their hands. >“Nobody was sick. Nobody touched anybody. Nobody shook hands. Nobody hugged everybody like you might do in a group. There was none of that,” Ms. Backlund said. Sounds like they were simply in the same room for hours, and even a degree of separation didn't help. Sounds like there also might have been a few carriers who weren't displaying symptoms.

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thesynod Yesterday

They were also singing. Forcefully pushing as much air out of your lungs as possible.

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TurkeyturtleYUMYUM Yesterday

I don't think I'll ever be as fascinated as I am now with everyone's lack of understanding regarding droplet transmission. It's been mainstream news for months now. Everyone keeps going back to touching, you're literally breathing out the virus with every breath.

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Massive_Issue Yesterday

I know, and then they think that as long as youre 6 feet apart it's like a magic forcefield.

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CentrOfConchAndCoral 1 day ago

True i wonder what the normal flu would do?

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crusoe 1 day ago

They'd be sick but very unlikely even 1 of them would die.

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HeartOfSky 1 day ago

The flu would have incapacitated the person and they'd not have gone to practice. It seems that the flu is contagious up to one day BEFORE symptoms show, whereas COVID doesn't have that burdensome limitation.

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WaywardWriter 1 day ago

Before social distancing requirements were in place in Washington State earlier this month, members of a choir group took their own coronavirus precautions. They told singers not to attend practice if they had even a hint of illness.

Yet the virus has devastated the Skagit Valley Chorale, based in the rural valley north of Seattle that is famous for its tulip production. Of the 60 people who attended a March 10 practice, 45 have developed symptoms and 27 so far have tested positive, officials said. One of the group’s members has died, another has been hospitalized and others have struggled to overcome their illness.

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sewermermaid85 Yesterday

This defies the odds that 50% of cases are asymptomatic.

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WaywardWriter Yesterday

One or more of them might have been in the incubation period before symptoms actually set in?

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HeartOfSky 1 day ago

What sucks is that the person who brought the virus into the group likely had no symptoms.

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WaywardWriter 1 day ago

Yeah, they note in the article that "nobody seemed sick." But considering the virus can have such a long incubation period, there might have been numerous people there carrying it.

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HeartOfSky 1 day ago

Really is the worse mix, isn't it? Watched a virus documentary from 2009, last night. A guy mentioned how the flu is impossible to stop, but isn't terribly deadly. SARS is really deadly, but was so easy to stop. If there were a version of SARS that could be contagious before symptoms showed... it would be worse than the flu. Here we are, a decade later, having that exact scenario play out.

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Bkinkade Yesterday

Hindsights a real fucker. I think this is why many try the ‘ignorance is bliss’ strategy. That doesn’t work well either.

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2013AE 1 day ago

Guess their god didn't care much about them after all...

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DMC5H8rRolePlay 1 day ago

I'd rather you go than them honestly.

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CentrOfConchAndCoral 1 day ago

Someone died dont be a dick also this has nothing to do with their religion.

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missmaudieisahottie 1 day ago

Secular chorale, turns out. Also, RUDE!

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2013AE 1 day ago

wouldn't know your shit is paywalled also; lmao

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HoneyBunchesOfOhtani Atlanta Braves :atl3: 1 day ago

Serious thought: one of the few positive news stories throughout all of this is the redirection of focus, labor, materials, and capabilities towards providing essential items at a time like this.

Not so serious thought: “Coming soon to a Lids Locker Room near you: team-branded masks! Cover your mouth and show your team spirit all at once!”

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jestice69 1 h ago

Anyone able to get the source code?

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Jezekilj 2 hs ago

Cross contamination?

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dan-kolis 3 hs ago

Various but mostly about the GM ( General Motors) build attempt over the next 40 days...

First an article about the politics as much as the act, I guess that's reality for you. Names the manufacturer working with GM, they may have been sourcing parts for a little while anyway for this quick requirement:

https://www.axios.com/us-ventilator-shortage-gms-coronavirus-d8ce8fd6-093c-4fc5-9018-f5b9f7f4cdbf.html

PDF about the basic unit and accessories ...
https://www.venteclife.com/assets/media/1064/vocsn_tech-specs_current.pdf

Implies as few as 10K a month. World pull is maybe up to 800K of them if each is reused 7 times.... Of course lots of rest of world will make ones of all different designs. Still 5K / day would be handy.

The chems may zoom in and scoop the process quicky however. and this thing has a nebulizer so its good at that. Invasive and non-invasive for face / throat stuff too...

Of course all the hoses... plumbing and so on can't be reused, so the MFG has a minority versus majority output requirement too.

Here is Toronto the allocation of ventilators is keeping up really well, less then 100 in use at any given moment. And people who know how to configure the thing,

It's strange there is no provision for remote control at all. Nothing. Has a 24 VDC backup power port... Finds O2 in air using a Zeolite rock in there... Thats energy intensive. If the power fails, there back to regular 20% air a while really.

When I was king of a mfg process making thing *very much* like this, when we started we had trouble making 30 a day in one shift with about 60 guys. 3 shifts etc would be only 2000 a month or something.... And we never ran out of parts, etc. We didn't abandon units that failed tests, we fixed em as we went. Im sure for GM they will have a very, very comptent accountant who fixes that with the best technology of invoicing Uncle Sam available. Just write 'NFG at test" on the thing and charge for it, set it aside, to be forgotten after awhile.... the debugging code, "NFG" is a gobal identifier, your ISO 900X shop may find a different 'code'.. So the heap of alomost passed and failed ones at GM is justifiably going to be pretty huge for weeks... probably

Running out of space in formal settings means the portable nature of this thing is useful, its odd they didn't decide to add a port for remote control. Of course, buried inside it... there is one for automated testing and calibration. That can be brought out for this crisis. Doesn't help unless the sw does new stuff for this need, hopefully they didn't lay off the programmer who actually knows the code when it appeared to work enough to sell.... Or rather, lost track of him/her.

I started a remote control program generic for a thing like this, thinking "big world" much more then USA specific, for instance. I think I will decide shortly whether to make it pretty usable, ( as much as possible w/o hardware, the hardware is going to come along, huh ? ) Cloud GC backed up, etc.

Anybody have an opinion if that's worth doing ?

Do I grok this correctly ? There 4K people who can read this, and three that contributed at all ? what about the dozen or so moderators ? I always avoided reddit as a talk only shop for know it alls. Not that I'm NOT one myself you understand... This situation is the rare condition where both knowledge and imagination are roughly equally weighted for utility...

Is that wo to interpret this:
" Healthcare providers are quickly running low on needed supplies of simple plastic items, many of which are their only protection against infection. Are you an engineer? A 3D CAD designer? A healthcare admin or provider? Do you run a makerspace? Have a company with resources to spare? Whoever you are, if you feel that you can help, you're invited to assist.

4.6k Members

53 Online

And any Opinions ? News info ?

You know the professionals handed this Ventec/ GM box will really, really hate it. Even a mere simulator for configuring it might be helpful, so they can be eased into a consumer product sorta thing in a crisis. Dunno...

I guess there is no baseline plan for this or anything else in this situation... Thats how emergencies work ? No wonder people avoid them...

Final thought is the remote control, self logging Google cloud etc notion might help it be far easier to decide if the thing is no longer needed by the casuality and can be reused after its cleaned up. There either going to recover or are dead. Dead's easy, but scenerios I read of using it are super triage moderated. This is, there left on the thing far beyond a real minimum, as after you invest X hours, its a 'don't turn back after 1/2 way' policy. With more r/t data I would think perhaps its clear the patient is not in need of the ventilator so badly, it can be used by another. You should I hope immediately realize ! If the elapsed time to get to to dead or recovering is halfed its like doubling the number of boxes and reusing the attention span of the people in attendance too..

Very useful to be able to blame a program if they die after there taken off the thing....

The PDF is 17 pages if printed as above. Interesting to read in the context of this need...

Regards,

Dan - March 28, 2020 16:52 UTC, fl: nblp41

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Theost520 12 hs ago

I hope this is widely adopted, cause NY is requesting twice our total stockpile of ventilators. They want 30k and the Feds only have ~16k for all the states.

The crisis will be gone before Ford or any company can ramp production in a meaningful way. Such innovation is our only answer to saving lives.

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GrumpyPenguin Yesterday

I don't know that much about ventilators (or anything medical, really), but I do know that with most pumps and motors, hooking them up to a "load" that's bigger than they were designed for can cause them to run hot and shorten their life. I hope we won't see widespread use of Y-shaped pipe joiners* cause burnout of the working ventilators we do have.

^(*Sorry, "VESper™ Ventilator Expansion Devices".)

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lettuce_chubbies 9 hs ago

Gotta have a chuckle. "Working collaboratively to develop specifications for the device" It's a Y junction.

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GFYS2025 Yesterday

life support machine

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thetathunberg Yesterday

So what exactly do I do with it once I print it out?

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AVD712 Yesterday

Aren't the patients hooked up to it have to be more or less in the same condition as far as their respiratory system is concerned? Or am i just stupid. I mean the vent would be on the same settings for all for patients. I mean if you make a mistake and put a patient with a fragile condition then it could totally tear up their lungs.

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saltyjeep Yesterday

Thats what it states in the article. Patients have to have the same needs for O2 concentration, pressures, etc. Sounds like it would really have to be a dire situation.

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myusernameisgood99 Yesterday

Mario and Luigi could hook you up with one these

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rosajson Yesterday

Sorry, but there is a consensus statement from The Society of Critical Care Medicine (SCCM), American Association for Respiratory Care (AARC), American Society of Anesthesiologists (ASA), Anesthesia Patient Safety Foundation (APSF), American Association of Critical‐Care Nurses (AACN), and American College of Chest Physicians (CHEST) against shared ventilators, for good reason.

"Finally, there are ethical issues. If the ventilator can be lifesaving for a single individual, using it on more than one patient at a time risks life‐threatening treatment failure for all of them"

https://www.asahq.org/about-asa/newsroom/news-releases/2020/03/joint-statement-on-multiple-patients-per-ventilator

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pinchinggata Yesterday

As beings made of Stardust we shine brightest in the dark

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HypheeSomme Yesterday

Share this everywhere

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dan-kolis Yesterday

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/327357941_Patient-ventilator_interaction_with_conventional_and_automated_management_of_pressure_support_during_difficult_weaning_from_mechanical_ventilation

This is like some bad joke really. The right notion, but time frame off by about 100 to 1. "Every hour" ever hour?

Instead of fixing the software they just invent careful terminology to measure how bad it is....

And trying a mildy adaptive program to decide if an adaptive program is worth having DIFFERS DEPENDING ON WHAT THE PROGRAM DOES !

Its exactly like the Monty Pythin skit where the doctor says: "Bring me the machine that goes PING !"

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frogmicky Yesterday

Now people should 3D print it for EVERYONE!!!!!!

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88castronaut Yesterday

Fuck FDA aproval if no one will have insurance cover the treatment

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DrinkThatRedKoolAid Yesterday

One guy turned 1 into 10.

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DrinkThatRedKoolAid Yesterday

Couldnt it be done with an air compressor and a regulator?

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stoicbabel Yesterday

❤️

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Triumphguy675 Yesterday

Fuck trump let the people make this and save the country

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MrWhytie Yesterday

I'm not so sure this is the best of ideas. The letter below was just released yesterday and there is a valid argument against ventilating multiple patients with a single machine. I get it if we are in dire straights but this has to be the last ditch option.

https://www.asahq.org/about-asa/newsroom/news-releases/2020/03/joint-statement-on-multiple-patients-per-ventilator

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wawa_springwater Yesterday

“Invented a device” - went to Home Depot for some PVC fittings

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Masterduppy Yesterday

shudders in GE

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TacTurtle Yesterday

How do they isolate and sterilize?

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Queasy_Chef Yesterday

This isn’t a new idea. The first to present it was a Respiratory Therapist, years ago. It was shot down. Now that doctors are presenting it people think it’s a great idea. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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Sakanutai Yesterday

It was shot down because it has it risks with sharing a vent with another sick person. Now in a time of crisis where you want to treat people as fast as you can this option sounds really enticing for a lot of people.

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rraattbbooyy Yesterday

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

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Jenneraged Yesterday

As a progressive RN (step down ICU) being quickly trained on vents and with the ideal being taking stable vents.... this shit scares me. Does not appear that stable vents and COVID go together....

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jazzmangz Yesterday

Y piece (TM)

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GreyBoyTigger Yesterday

I’m dubious of how this can be effective. Put one ARDS, one with COPD, one barotrauma, and one who can’t be sedated and fights the vent on the same circuit. How is this proper care?

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rraattbbooyy Yesterday

It’s not proper care. But so what? Better to give 4 people a chance to survive than to sacrifice 3 to save 1.

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GreyBoyTigger Yesterday

So what? It’s below even the lowest standard of care for this virus. It’s not a matter of “breathing for them” it’s a matter of not harming these poor patients by using Mickey Mouse techniques. It should infuriate everyone that we would even consider using this option. It would cause harm

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rraattbbooyy Yesterday

Perhaps you should write them a strongly worded letter.

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GreyBoyTigger Yesterday

Since you have no idea what you’re talking about, I’ll leave it be

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rraattbbooyy Yesterday

No, I get it. You’re butthurt because medical experts are trying methods of saving lives that you don’t approve of. Good luck with that.

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GreyBoyTigger Yesterday

No, medical experts aren’t agreeing with this at all. I would love to meet a single healthcare professional (MD, ID docs, RT, any ER doc) who thinks this is even remotely a good idea. It’s a horrible idea that actively harms all patients hooked to it, were they Covid patients.

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rraattbbooyy Yesterday

Yeah. It’s a horrible idea and everyone should hate it because it will kill people. I guess that’s why the FDA approved it.

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GreyBoyTigger Yesterday

Something that hasn’t been tested and has gotten approval when nothing else is available. Sounds like a ringing endorsement. Look if this works I’ll be happy to be wrong. Having worked with ventilators for years, this is a horrible idea and I hope it doesn’t ever come to this

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rraattbbooyy Yesterday

Your big complaint seems to be that 4 people with very different breathing issues cannot share one machine. Maybe you didn’t read the article, and only overreacted to the headline. “Multiple combinations of the VESper™ device can be configured to allow a single machine to be used for up to four patients. It is important to match the clinical characteristics of the patients connected to a single machine as the machine will deliver the same settings such as oxygen concentration, amount of air in each breath and the pressure of the air delivered.”

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Prof__Professional Yesterday

Unless it kills all 4 when you could have saved 1.

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rraattbbooyy Yesterday

That’s less likely, or they wouldn’t be doing this.

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Prof__Professional Yesterday

They have no idea if it's less likely. At this point, they are throwing things at the wall and hoping it helps. I hope that we don't need to get to that point, and if we do, that it does work. I just don't believe it will based on my current understanding of ventilator technology. I should also point out I am a BMET, so I'm not just a random idiot on the internet.

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rraattbbooyy Yesterday

I’m pretty sure it will work.

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writer404 1 week ago

Put in all my current symptoms that have been chalked up to an acute respirtatory infection with ear infection, and it told me to call my local hotline, isolate, and get tested. If only I could.

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Justiceforallhobos 1 week ago

Ran through it multiple times; unless you endorse essentially every physiological/somatic feature and have multiple comorbid vulnerabilities, it seems to spit out "don't test yet"...

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H_is_for_Human 1 week ago

I got reasonable recommendations running through a few scenarios: 60+ with fever, cough +/- muscle aches, with known exposure --> isolate and test 40+ with fever, cough, fatigue, without known exposure, with HTN / DM --> isolate and test if there is testing capacity

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Justiceforallhobos 1 week ago

Makes you wonder then what the crucial variable is in the algorithm; essentially what is being weighted most heavily in deriving the 2 x 2 outcome: isolate +/-, test +/-

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H_is_for_Human 1 week ago

Not sure - didn't make it, just sharing it. They say they partnered with CDC to develop this, so it's probably trustworthy.

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Justiceforallhobos 1 week ago

oh no, I know- I appreciate you sharing it. I'm always just leery of algorithm-type diagnostics when there are questions concerning how they weight various factors that go into the outcome. It's still something and it shares a lot of resources to the examinee.

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stocksorcerer 1 day ago

This is a dead cat bounce at best, we haven’t even come remotely close to the worst of things. There will “absolutely” be another huge drop in the market in the near future when corona becomes much worse in our county. Don’t buy in long term thinking you’re getting a steal, if you don’t sell soon you’ll be left holding for quite something time. Market trend won’t last, but enjoy it while you can

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justafreesheep 2 days ago

People aren't afraid of this anymore, we have all been inundated with it every day since it started, it's just becoming normal now in our minds. People are starting to realize the world won't end, and the panic sellers are getting back in again. That and the fed's money machine got the print switch taped down, and it's spewing its tendies directly into the market every time there is any type of bad news. This is classic bandwagoning, make the market go up, people FOMO, and wallah.

1

poopecon 1 day ago

You think a 30% drop represented the world ending? I definitely think there's FOMO going on, also the algo trading, Investment banks just got free money to fuck around with, etc.

1

anon4357 [Autism Intensifies] 2 days ago

More like no one knows what this is, and by it I mean the whole situation.

1

Alwaysmadd89 2 days ago

the dow is going to 60,000. a loaf of bread is also going to cost $25.

13

TheTangoFox 2 days ago

Party like its 1929

5

ms_choksondick 2 days ago

WSJs next piece: Why this is the perfect time to invest your whole portfolio in small cap oil.

8

SillyfkiNGo0se 2 days ago

Biggest pump and dump in history does not mean bull market retard

12

SDBcop 2 days ago

Haha yeah we’ll See about that

!remindme 2 weeks

5

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1

btoned 2 days ago

Only in this country can you have headlines about millions being unemployed but also about emerging in a bull market.

👌

36

poopecon 1 day ago

Just saw this on CNBC: Headline 1: OVER ONE THOUSAND DEAD IN AMERICA Headline 2: MCDONALDS STOPS ALL DAY BREAKFAST

1

LerneZuCode 2 days ago

'Merica

3

awptakesnoskill 2 days ago

bull shit

3

analcuck 2 days ago

GameStop just best earnings too. Bull market. Ber fuk

8

theworstofus14 2 days ago

never bet against reggie

8

analcuck 2 days ago

I like you

2

xtsv 2 days ago

Deceased feline bounce

10

liquiddandruff 2 days ago

ok

2

Usonvaslurmimin 2 days ago

Lmfao. Yeah, okay. Unemployment is going to explode, people are going to die because of improper public health planning, and stonks only go up? Yeah, I buy it buddy.

Edit: Can my fellow 🌈🐻’s upvote this for visibility? I want to see this in a month.

183

Cooberts 1 day ago

Death and Unemployment in the millions is allll priced in, 1000 year bull market began on tuesday retard

2

poisonfilledmind 2 days ago

I do not understand how there can be so much bad news, and clearly much worse news on the horizon, and stonks still go up...for now. Shit has not become real for a lot of people yet in America, still.

12

btoned 2 days ago

Especially with half the country being under mandatary orders. Blows my mind.

4

ORANGEFANGLAD 1 day ago

Buddy take something into consideration. 90% of stocks are owned by people who are in a biological weapons bunker called their house. You know the rich people who own everything, they have more than enough money to buy an hold (for generations until the end of time). You think these people give a shit that the populations thinning. People are very easy to make.

1

asuryan331 2 days ago

The math shows it's better for the economy for people to die apparently.

28

xXPinkGrenadeXx 2 days ago

if that's the case the math is really wrong lmao

6

LerneZuCode 2 days ago

The math was wrong. The epidemiologist behind the coronavirus model, which everyone is citing, revised his initial estimate. He now says that it's not as bad, projecting 20K deaths - possibly lower still - in the UK, down from 500K, a 96% decrease in projected deaths. 20K may still be a lot, but in the context of every day illnesses it's quite small. [https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/)

0

poopecon 1 day ago

[https://twitter.com/neil\_ferguson/status/1243294815200124928](https://twitter.com/neil_ferguson/status/1243294815200124928)

1

btoned 2 days ago

Good thing the UK and the USA have similar population counts.

4

xXPinkGrenadeXx 2 days ago

good thing this was always about the death count rather then a halt on all business lol

2

foggedupglasses 2 days ago

Fuk

2

The_Abyss_Blinked 2 days ago

Can anyone explain this? Is it hopeful optimism? Because a lot of info isn’t really justifying this. I guess maybe they liked public officials outing themselves as sociopaths, but that’s all I can think of.

8

s0kuba 1 day ago

I've finally realized that we don't have anywhere close to a free market in terms of the debt and equity markets. As long as the Fed is willing to step in, you have to assume there is a giant safety net underneath certain asset classes and prices regardless of the underlying fundamentals.

4

DasKapitalist 2 days ago

On the demand side, gratuitous govt spending boosts demand in the short term. On the supply side, it's a game of chicken between boomers and working age adults. The market trending upward indicates an expectation that going back to work is more likely than welding workers in houses to save grandpa. Which is better? *Shrugs*

1

GhastlyParadox 1 day ago

to save the health system is more like it.

1

1X3oZCfhKej34h 2 days ago

It's just ~~volativity~~ volatility Edit: werds R hard

6

bskilly 2 days ago

Can someone explain this to a layman? I know that unemployment was expected and baked in to the market, and that the stimulus bill is giving hope to investors, but the rise over these past two days still seems incredibly unwarranted. Am I missing something?

7

mechtech 1 day ago

In my opinion, it's a result of a reduction in uncertainty. Additionally, the fiscal bill is nearly guaranteed to pass on Friday, which might have precipitated a short squeeze near the end of the day. Overall though, it's important to remember that assigning narratives to price movements is a futile human behavior. It's mostly a random walk. It's also worth noting that the market overall is down over the past month, massively. Anecdotally, I've been 23/7 trading the market since it went into "parabolic dotcom mode" a few months ago, and was incredibly bearish on the jobs numbers yesterday. I live in a state that has a shutdown mandate, and some of the estimates of 1 million filing for unemployment were just ludicrously low. I may have even made some ranting posts on other sites about how out of touch with working America Wall Street is, and how damage being done via cut hours, people working side gigs, etc is vastly understated. None the less, I opened a short VIX position and grabbed some short dated calls on corona exposed stocks, fully expecting nasty job numbers (which we got). Going long into today was sort of a base level contrarian move, which is a position traders spend more time in than out of. So I'm not sure you're missing anything, and I'm not sure I'm adding much, but generally, being contrarian can get you ahead of the curve and in times of spiked volatility that can generate outsized returns. In high volatility times like this, market behavior like "profit taking" or "entering beaten down bargain positions" can register on the tape for a long time. When there is 10x the amount of unrealized gains on open short positions, any sort of momentum/fear-of-missing-out in regards to them taking profit/closing positions can take a while to play out, to the extent where its tradable on a human scale and is not just a blip that trades with an HFT bot or feeds a darkpool. Liquidity on the market is often very low currently. If you look on the lvl 2, especially in the options market, the bots are running high spreads and sometimes just "nope" out of an equity entirely for a period of time if bids/asks are thin or vol spikes. Usually, spreads are impressively tight and market makers are happy to delta hedge any position you want and gamma scalp for a few slivers of a percent. Not now - they won't play unless it's clearly in their favor, due to people (and presumably high frequency bots) coming in and slamming stocks up and down on a regular basis. This can be a result of big institutional positions unrolling, margin calls on big accounts, or ultra smart quant strategies raiding an unsuspecting bid/ask in a microsecond (presumably the smart smart money is making insane profit currently). As a result, everyone is defensive. There is money to be made simple waiting for people to aggressively enter positions and/or dump positions out of panic or necessity, so why close the spreads. Finally, in regards to the "rise of the past two days"... are you referring to an index? Within the index, there are companies +30% due to benefiting from the Fed expanding its collateral scope, and other companies bleeding a few percent every day due to corona exposure. The value of an index price doesn't have much value right now outside of the (admittedly massive) ETF market. Well, the index price does have some value, but it needs to be evaluated alongside capital flows, forex rates, bonds, and macro factors, since so much money is flowing through world markets currently. Within the index is where the actual story is taking place. At the end of this story, there will likely be a new regime that values equities on different criteria than before. Maybe some forgotten value stocks will be "hot", maybe some tech momentum stocks that were big will bleed half of their market cap and lose investor interest within the next year. Gotta drill down a bit more instead of simply looking at SP500 percentage up or down. Lots to think about, and this is a strange time to trade! It's a very "human" market compared to the low-vol, optimized, momentum environment we just exited.

1

ccjunkiemonkey 2 days ago

Dow is still down like 25% from high a month ago, this is just a bounce. It'll go down more.

7

zaparans 2 days ago

08 had similar huge upswings and downswings as the market tries to sort this out. There was an unbelievable sell off. Some think it may have been too much and were seeing a rally. It’s been expected that these numbers would be horrible. It could go as high as 40 million by the end of April. Decisions are being made with that in mind. In times of great uncertainty you tend to see large fluctuations.

8

testspecimen85 2 days ago

What worries me is that if the prospect of losing 40,000,000 US jobs has the futures outlooks being so optimistic, what does that mean for the future of work in the US?

3

Toastedmanmeat Yesterday

Probably means the rich investors realized they dont need peasants anymore

1

testspecimen85 Yesterday

I know, right?

2

Toastedmanmeat Yesterday

Kinda scary. I mean this is the perfect set up for a corporate take over. All the plebs sold off their stock so the rich own even more of the market, people are under house arrest unless essential. Public gatherings are illegal and unemplyment is so sky high workers dare not act out.

1

testspecimen85 Yesterday

They took over before you were born, bud.

1

Toastedmanmeat Yesterday

True but they kind of needed workers before to like, do all the work. So at least we had that going for us.

1

testspecimen85 Yesterday

They have robots waiting in the wings. I don’t know who they think they’re going to sell all those iPhones too, but we’ll see how it works out.

1

DasKapitalist 2 days ago

Equity markets are realistic about the future. Most countries have two high level options: 1) Keep everything shutdown until mask production becomes adequate for businesses to reopen or a vaccine is developed. This keeps sickly boomers from dying in droves. Also it craters the economy and working age people die in droves from not being able to afford food/shelter/etc because you cant live on good intentions. And no, arbitrarily large amounts of inflation driven govt checks aren't food/shelter/etc. 2) Businesses reopen and return to producing goods and services. Boomers die in droves from WuFlu. However, since very few of them were working, their deaths dont impact the production of goods and services that much and returns aggregate demand to normal levels (their heirs just buy avocado toast instead of dentures). Now it may be grim, but which option do you think Western nations are going to *de facto* pick? Starving their workers or their retirees dying of plague? If you think it Door #1, then equity markets should still be in free fall. If you think it's Door #2, then markets should be stabilizing or rebounding. Some non-Western countries (e.g. South Korea) are picking Door #1. Some Western nations (like Italy) went hard into Door #2 and are frantically trying to backpedal.

1

vvvvfl Yesterday

It really is like reddit has a master plan of just making me fall in topics were people keep repeating "gee, government is printing money, here comes inflation". When that is absolutely not a given. I Think Reddit is playing a prank on me. Seriously, the explanation being simple is not a proof that the theory is true.

2

GhostofJulesBonnot 1 day ago

> Also it craters the economy and working age people die in droves from not being able to afford food/shelter/etc because you cant live on good intentions. And no, arbitrarily large amounts of inflation driven govt checks aren't food/shelter/etc. Yeah, you don't know what you're talking about.

2

DasKapitalist 1 day ago

Not an argument.

0

GhostofJulesBonnot 1 day ago

Of course not, it's a statement. What made you think it was supposed to be an argument?

3

testspecimen85 1 day ago

What if states like IL, CA, and NY are forced (or at least feel forced) to select door #1 because of their population densities, and most of the rest of the country selects door #2? The reason I ask is because while Trump claims he shut down the country, but he didn’t. Governors did. While Trump may make a speech and declare us open for business, there’s no guarantee those three states I mentioned follow suit on his timeline. What then?

3

DasKapitalist 1 day ago

You're correct, shutdowns were absolutely driven by state governors not the US's president. This is important because those three de facto Wuflu leper colonies are hostile to Trump to say the least. Ergo if Trump suggests Door #2...there's almost no chance those three states will follow suit. It'd be political suicide for their governors to be seen as "siding" with him. Honestly I suspect that if he pushed for Door #1 instead, they'd fall over themselves to reopen businesses ASAP. US politics are that polarized. The macro impact of this is that NYC, California, and Washington's governors are likely to want stay shut down for an extended period with massive impacts to their economies...but the rest of the US will try to reopen. Which is going to influence a lot of workers from those leper colonies to leave to states that are open. Which will either lead to shifting economic production away from those three states in the long term or turn the other 47 states into Italy 2.0. It's a really weird situation to watch, and likely one with multi-decade consequences.

1

Hells88 2 days ago

The deficit will go to infinity with central banks expanding their balance sheet to infinity. Sanders will be president and introduce UBI

6

zaparans 2 days ago

I’m no stock market expert or prophet but I suspect these sentiments will swing back and forth for a bit.

4

avocaddo122 2 days ago

Is the dow a good indicator of economic stability and development ?

Cause stocks have dropped over foolish sentences before the spike in job loss

15

DasKapitalist 2 days ago

This is indicative of *inflation* not economic development. Congress helicoptering trillions of debt-based cash into a dual sided supply and demand shock will push equities up because more cash chasing fewer goods will lead people to buy equities as their dollars lose value. Functionality it's no different than if Weimar Germany doubled its currency in circulation and acted all surprised that the nominal value of domestic equities doubled. It isnt growth, it's why X = 100 and 2X = 200 are the same number.

1

helmetsmusic 2 days ago

> Is the dow a good indicator of economic stability and development ? A big dropoff is expected, it could be when certain statistics come out, or it could be tomorrow (a lot less likely), but it's gonna happen. Look at the 2008 chart, it's full of bounces: https://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years

8

Cheap_Rhetoric 2 days ago

Lots of people tend to value the S&P 500 more as an indicator [due to the differences in how the two are weighted](https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/difference-between-dow-jones-industrial-average-and-sp-500/), but that’s not to say the Dow is a bad gauge.

14

keeags 2 days ago

S&P still up around the same amount. 4.8% as of now

4

2 7

Marty Bent - @MartyBent

"It is not just a collective act of civil disobedience; it is an individual recognition of the need to act in self-preservation." We're lucky to have @parkeralewis writing so eloquently about bitcoin. Peep his latest edition of Gradually, Then Suddenly. https://t.co/U3DLrJfO5U

1 2

Pontus Lindblom - @ponli137

RT @parkeralewis: Gradually, Then Suddenly (#13): Bitcoin is a Rally Cry As the Fed responds to instability in the financial system with armageddon QE, bitcoin will increasingly become the rally cry for all those that see the train wreck coming and refuse to sit idly by. https://t.co/tgSjZpFizL

106 301

Matt Odell - @matt_odell

RT @MTanguma: “So to all Americans in the world, stay humble, stack sats, and hold the damn line. Whatever it takes” h/t @parkeralewis @matt_odell https://t.co/W9AAmzOxpF https://t.co/eVhRe3GJRX

1 10

Christopher Wheeler - @Stocktrader

Bitcoin is a Rally Cry - Unchained Capital https://t.co/WlqiK6q3y5

0 1

Pierre Rochard - @pierre_rochard

RT @parkeralewis: Gradually, Then Suddenly (#13): Bitcoin is a Rally Cry As the Fed responds to instability in the financial system with armageddon QE, bitcoin will increasingly become the rally cry for all those that see the train wreck coming and refuse to sit idly by. https://t.co/tgSjZpFizL

1 6

Michael Goldstein - @bitstein

RT @parkeralewis: Gradually, Then Suddenly (#13): Bitcoin is a Rally Cry As the Fed responds to instability in the financial system with armageddon QE, bitcoin will increasingly become the rally cry for all those that see the train wreck coming and refuse to sit idly by. https://t.co/tgSjZpFizL

50 119

Dennis Parker⚡️ - @Xentagz

RT @parkeralewis: Gradually, Then Suddenly (#13): Bitcoin is a Rally Cry As the Fed responds to instability in the financial system with armageddon QE, bitcoin will increasingly become the rally cry for all those that see the train wreck coming and refuse to sit idly by. https://t.co/tgSjZpFizL

10 24

25 3

DjPersh :flag-ky: Kentucky Yesterday

You get the sense that Trump envisions every piece of paper he signs his name to will be some Gettysburg esque document that history will revel to understand and honor some day. He’s a fucking joke, and so is this document, but just based on wording I still get that sense.

3

Hairydone :flag-us: America Yesterday

“Trump said officials are gathering testing data that will suggest guidelines categorizing counties as "high risk, medium risk or low risk" for the virus. The data will drive "the next phase" of the response, he said.”

Which means that if you don’t have enough tests you can’t show a high rate of infection, which would be Trump’s justification for claiming it’s safe to go back out.

9

Archer-Saurus Yesterday

Surprise surprise, Arizona just said to limit testing. I'd understand if our health system was swamped like WA or NYC. But this is bogus Trump/Doucey bullshit to keep numbers artificially low. AZ may very well be fucked in two weeks.

2

wwarnout Yesterday

Even if there were enough test to identify the risk level in each county, how would he prevent people from a high-risk county from going into a low-risk county, with the inevitable consequence of increased infection turning the low-risk county into a high-risk county?

1

Tufkidd Yesterday

You can't. Trump continues to live in deluded narcissistic fantasy land and he will be responsible for the deaths of thousands

2

TheonsPrideinaBox Yesterday

Just like Trump's daily presser, this letter is only intended to get Trump more press. He's literally angry with rage that a virus is getting more press than him so he will do what it takes to regain the headline lead.

9

Lullaby37 Yesterday

There's an excellent chance trump damn well knows he can't do anything by Easter, but it's controversial and getting him non-stop headlines. He has to control the news cycle. Floating pardons wasn't doing it, so he came up with a way to dominate the press again. Instead of articles about preparing for the pandemic, we get endless articles about trump's every thought, every tweet. He's an attention vampire, and the press just lets him keep sucking up millions of dollars of attention.

2

RetroRedo Yesterday

Bottom line: "my Administration is working on establishing new guidelines . . ." In other words, no guidance and worthless bloviating.

23

sandwooder :flag-ny: New York Yesterday

They are always working on something, but the only thing they are every working on are notices they are working on something.

5

HonkeyDonkey3000 Yesterday

I wouldn't really call it a letter--more like a picture book with lots of images of Stormy Daniel, Hillary Clinton, and Jeffrey Epstein.

3

itzmonsterz Yesterday

“Trump has indicated that he wants to adjust his 15-day social distancing guidelines so that more parts of the stalled U.S. economy can reopen by April 12. The 15th day of the original guidelines is Monday.”

I hope hospital workers are literal Kings and queens after this. If these orders are followed by governors, we will have a hard time keeping up with the bodies.

8

cohuttaska :flag-ga: Georgia Yesterday

One paragraph of content. Surrounded by superlatives

9

CaptNemo131 :flag-oh: Ohio Yesterday

I just read the letter.

Trump didn't write a single word of it.

39

Koutou Yesterday

He wrote 1 word. You can see his terrible signature on the bottom.

1

St_Andrews_Lodge Yesterday

Exactly what I was thinking. He might not have even read it.

8

burlybuhda :flag-md: Maryland Yesterday

Right? Remember the personal letter he sent round to Turkey? There's no resemblance in sentence structure or voice.

10

Mayor_Minderbinder Yesterday

Whatever, tough guy! Call you later.

4

burlybuhda :flag-md: Maryland Yesterday

No thanks :)

2

diatomicsoda Yesterday

That reads like a ten year old’s English homework

3

Ikari_No_Kyojin Yesterday

Which sadly means that you know it was actually one of his more qualified staffers who wrote it.

11

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1

vwjieskl 1 day ago

not, doesnt matter

1

plasticfriendship 1 day ago

This is the South Korean approach. Testing with tracking and isolating high risk areas. Let's hope it works as well here as it did there!

0

Arminius_92 1 day ago

We must stay on top !!!

1

mystyphy 1 day ago

Ok, I’m tired of winning.

1

trooper_x 1 day ago

He used "vanquish" in the press conference an hour ago. I guess this letter is where he learned that word. I knew he didn't have that in his vocabulary before.

1

durmduke 1 day ago

Two spaces after periods/punctuation. What a maniac

11

nicnakcrakalak 1 day ago

No way those are his words

1

angryrickrolled 1 day ago

Let him hold rallies

6

cptn_sugarbiscuits 1 day ago

So, the federal govt wants to designate low risk areas? No thanks. I've heard that one before.

6

atimmyman 1 day ago

Tired of hearing “is there waste in the 2 trillion...” when we don’t even know what stage we are in. I keep using the analogy of putting out a fire and complaining about the burden on the water system before the flames are 1/3 of the way out.

3

ac22rush 1 day ago

No way Trump wrote that. There are words in the letter with more than two syllables.

13

calm_chowder 1 day ago

Oh no doubt. He doesn't even write his own speeches (but still manages to turn them into senile babbling). But it's pretty normal for a president to simply sign off on documents like that as if it were from them.

4

poetinmyheart 1 day ago

I feel like he's just saying this to try to keep the stock market gaining. He can't really expect this to happen .. right??

17

calm_chowder 1 day ago

I agree. Either way it's going to be getting really bad all over the country by Easter, and leaders who have been ignoring or downplaying the virus will have to take notice as their own hospitals fail and people they know start dying. Whatever Trump is saying about reopening now won't be in any way relevant come Easter. I think you're right he's just saying this to try to stop stocks getting dumped and taking the DOW. He's such an idiot he doesn't realize he can't hold this shit off until after the election. America is going to be completely different in 3 weeks.

14

KaitRaven 1 day ago

I don't think Trump had one bit of input in writing this letter.

1

Cactus_Interactus 1 day ago

Just the part where he wants business open sooner.

2

PewPews 1 day ago

Wow.... just wow.... please governor Newsom, ban travel outside of states and order a state lockdown. We can survive for a while with our farming and tech industry. Trump will see a second and third wave of infections before election time and will see himself out.

38

MARTiN_23_KiNGS 1 day ago

That is actually a good idea

4

Strenue 1 day ago

It might actually happen

3

MARTiN_23_KiNGS 1 day ago

If it does happen we clearly have the resources to sustain it for awhile. And if we drop the spread we could get back quicker. We would just have to keep the borders closed from everyone.

3

packersrule2000 1 day ago

Trump credibility is almost zero, I don't see why any governor would follow any of Trump's guidelines. Trump hasn't followed any medical or science-based advice.

56

justhrowmeawaydamnit 1 day ago

I just saw him speak, I am 100% positive he is clueless on what to do in this situation. It seemed like he went on a tangent every 2 minutes about something completely unrelated. God help us.

8

HauntingJackfruit 1 day ago

Governor's think, if I don't give Don what he wants, Feds don't give me needed medical supplies. NO QUID PRO QUO though. Got it?

5

SkylerBleu 1 day ago

...*almost*?

1

Cactus_Interactus 1 day ago

Well he has a lot in some quarters. There was that guy who drank fish tank cleaner.

3

Skallywag815 1 day ago

Bro, it's something those in charge. Did you see the guy who said you can kill the virus by blowing hot air from a hair dryer into your nose? I want to say he was from Florida.

19

GearsPoweredFool 1 day ago

I had a security guard tell people they saw it on YouTube. Some herbal remedy that has to be inhaled with a hair dryer. Fucking Floridians man

2

Zenov 1 day ago

Of course it's someone from Florida that decides what Americans need is more hot air in their skulls.

5

wo_lo_lo 1 day ago

Oh, you mean Florida Man?

10

shensrealgothgf 1 day ago

Can confirm. He was from Florida.