Token Daily

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GISP Yesterday

... How is all that electricity generated to power the bitcoin farm?
What a load of BS.

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baronvonbee Yesterday

They burn dogecoin for the energy, dogecoin is a carbon neutral fuel.

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FuturologyBot Yesterday

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naossoan Yesterday

I was trying to find out what their MintGreen Digital Boiler is but not finding much information about it. The results are all just links to the same article basically.

How are they recovering heat from the miners to redistribute back into the system? This sounds totally infeasible to me but I don't know anything about HVAC so am probably wrong.

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loginname2424 Yesterday

theres not very much info, here. A hydronic heating system passes hot water through the floors and radiators. This system then flows the cold water back to a centralized location. North vancouver has, according to the article, 100 buildings or so on a centralized system. So you have a big boiler, and that feeds hot water to 100 buildings, which then comes back to be reheated. Gets all the radiators hot in all 100 buildings. If the bitcoin miner has convinced the district heating people to let them take the cold water return line and use it to cool their electronics, then that waste heat goes directly to the water, which is then further district heated to the target temperature. I presume it works something like this. This is a neat trick and it does allow them to get the heat from the electricity into water where it will not be wasted. This then saves money for the district by precisely the amount of energy they scavanged from the miners.

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naossoan Yesterday

Ok I didn't understand that all those buildings are essentially functioning as a gigantic radiator. That's interesting for sure.

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Crazy-in- Yesterday

Bitcoin to the moon

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undadatunda Yesterday

also you can do cooling too from bitcoin miners just by cycling a gas similiar to how propane fridges work but without the propane!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cy1W-uWvR9U so likely only a matter of time until some southern hot places make free cooling for houses and cities too

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Festortheinvestor Yesterday

Woah. This is incredible. Using energy twice, Bitcoin mine and generate heat for residents. This is literally going to change the game! I’m so proud of you bitcoiners! Be the change in the world you wish to see. Peace

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aiyapandabear Yesterday

Funny, this is how I’ve been supplementing heat in my home.

Tis a bit loud…

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flexpool Yesterday

Glad to see more local crypto companies 👏🏻

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mangletron Well, each tether has its end. Yesterday

The term Digital Boiler really bugs me. I'm glad they're putting the waste heat to use though.

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coinfeeds-bot Yesterday

tldr; The City of North Vancouver has partnered with MintGreen on a district energy system that delivers heat to 100 residential and commercial buildings. MintGreen’s Digital Boilers will prevent 20,000 tonnes of GHGs from entering the atmosphere per MW compared to natural gas. Over 97% of BC Hydro's energy mix is hydroelectric. Using that energy twice eliminates waste and makes this project one of the green

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

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Exotic-End Yesterday

Tbh, this is quite ingenious.

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burgoo Yesterday

Over the term of the engagement, MintGreen’s Digital Boilers will prevent 20,000 tonnes of GHGs from entering the atmosphere per MW compared to natural gas. Production of both bitcoin and usable thermal energy positions the Digital Boilers to be the cost leading low-carbon heating technology.

A great example of greenwashing to claim using a bunch more electricity actually reduces GHG emissions.

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TruckBC 1813 Yesterday

Technically, since our energy in BC is green, they are reducing GHG emissions. Not saying most crypto mining is a good use of electricity but....

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burgoo Yesterday

BC Hydro makes lots of its money selling power to Alberta which still uses a largish percentage of coal power. So this bitcoin mining operation in BC will mean Alberta will need to run its coal power plants at a slightly higher rate to generate a bit more power. That is the thing about greenwashing how people draw the box to do their GHG balance can make things look "good". A simple check is if more power being consumed with this installed? If the answer is yes it most likely is resulting in increased GHG emissions.

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tweetious 1 year ago

I read the whitepaper (I also placed an order BTW) and I have some questions.

Could you please describe (in details) the process of claiming/redeeming the tokens from the notes? Does it work similarly to Tangem notes/cards? (where you have to keep the note/card for 1 minute attached to the phone in order to send)

Also, would it be possible to send/store more kong tokens to a note (i.e. adding more than the face value). Can we use the notes as a wallet storage (i.e. send and receive)?

Also, do you have an estimation of a dispatching date?

please and thank you!

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

The [Kong Escrow Contract](https://github.com/kong-org/defi_hackathon/blob/master/contracts/escrow/Escrow.sol) is the source of truth on how claiming tokens works and is only 128 lines of code. I'd read that after the paragraph below. At a high level, tokens are locked in escrow for a certain period of time. When that time is up, tokens may be claimed from escrow by presenting an address and a signature obtained by having the note sign a recent blockhash. The contract checks that the block signed is greater than the blockheight of the date of expiration (Midnight UTC October 2nd 2022 for the first run - check the uint256 for the Unix epoch timestamp with [the notes associated contract](https://etherscan.io/address/0x7871e151bdb8a4d19dd8fa2719632937258c776f#readContract) \-in this case '[1664668800](https://www.unixtimestamp.com/index.php#1664668800)') and if the signature is valid and it's after that timestamp the the contract sends the token to the address passed. We released a "Kong Validator" app to the iOS and Google Play stores to make it easier to query notes but it was meant to be an affordance not a requirement. We wanted these notes to be self-sovereign and we aren't a necessary party to anything you do with it down the road including claim the token off of it. I'll put out some code we made for querying the notes on a raspberry pi too. I am reluctant to add wallet support to the Kong Validator app but that may be inevitable. A somewhat 'hidden' (really just, 'non-intuitive') but rad/powerful feature of the app is if you scan a note, scroll down to 'Get Instructions'; it generates .nfo file that tells you exactly what your phone did when it queried that specific note. That file is dynamic for each note scanned (though still some bugs and hardcoded values as of time of this writing). On iOS you can view that file by opening it in Notes. As an expedient measure we hardcoded our validator app to reference the [Kong Registry Contract](https://etherscan.io/token/0x177f2ace25f81fc50f9f6e9193adf5ac758e8098) \- one can certainly store more/other tokens but one would need to have a way to know where those tokens are escrowed. Adding support in the kong validator app to point out other registry contracts associated with a note is on our todo. You could do this today with your own app or on a development machine. If you have ideas on how to do this elegantly or know other projects that have I would appreciate it! Likewise one can create more sophisticated contracts (like a send/receive wallet) and associate them with a particular SiLo note too. Amongst other things, Kong is a simple proof of concept of SiLo's. It helps to think of the notes as a physical bank vault key which can interact with various safety deposit boxes containing code. Kong is written as a safety deposit box which only unlocks for the key at a distant point in the future and the safety deposit box contains the face value of Kong token. But a counter-intuitive property of physical keys is one can create more than one lock that works for it. You can have one key unlock multiple boxes for instance or even require some boxes to need multiple keys. The Kong registry contract isn't strictly necessary but it does help say this key goes to this contract in the same way DNS associates IPs with Domains. To store other token you would need another 'directory' to tell you where those contracts lay. I hope that analogy wasn't too much of a stretch. Notes purchased before the 18th will go out this week. We'll do a follow up dispatch after the New Year.

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tweetious 1 year ago

thank you for your in-depth explanation. In practice, through your app, how a transfer works (from a simple user interaction approach)? I just tap the NFC note, the app reads all the info from the chipset, and I just press a button (which calls the transfer function, interacts with the smart contract, do all the signing etc.) and moves the tokens? I am looking for a simple user approach answer here (rather than a deep technical explanation of how this works under the hood) As I said in my initial message, I only had nfc wallet experience (as a user, not as a developer) with another's company cards, where also the private key never leaves the card & never reveals, hence I am just trying to understand your implementation approach (in a user interaction aspect). Thank you very much once again, for going through and elaborate in-depth & in detail. Appreciated all your effort! Looking forward to receiving my notes package :-) Have a great day!

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

>a user interaction aspect My apologies for going off the rails on the technical side. From a UX perspective: When you get the notes you can scan via NFC to validate their authenticity. The first run of notes come out of escrow on October, 2022, after that point in time you can scan the note and remove the tokens from them via an app (by tapping a button to claim token and holding the note up to the app for about 3 seconds) or via program running on your computer with the note wired up to a serial adapter. Future runs of notes will have later expiration dates and differentiating characteristics from previous runs.

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WesternZealot 1 year ago

Is Kong a stable coin? If so, does 1 Kong = 1 USD?

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moarrgbplz 1 year ago

Any device that cannot be user-audited and flashed with user-provided firmware will necessarily depend on the user trusting the issuer. This is neat from an aesthetic standpoint, but it doesn't provide trustless physical cryptocurrency. I have to trust the issuer that the hardware does what they say it does. Even if there exists a chip that does what is claimed and has no exploitable bugs, I have to trust that the chip on the note is not counterfeit.

Because of this, there is no way to create trustless physical cryptographic banknotes. There will always be a way to counterfeit, and there will always be a need to trust the issuer.

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

Firmware+silicon provides more attack surface than just silicon. You are not making your device more secure by loading the firmware onto the chip if you are not also making the chip. This silicon self-generates keys and can attest those keys were self-generated. As discussed in the paper, the ability to export those keys in this case is a liability. We don’t yet have open silicon chips. We are working on making those. This is the state of the art in trust minimization. It can be taken further and we intend to.

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moarrgbplz 1 year ago

Yes, plain silicon is better than silicon and firmware. The point stands: I have to trust you guys to not have diddled your hardware somehow.

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thunder9861 1 year ago

This seems similar to OpenDime for bitcoin. What is the advantage of the "flexible pcb" form factor?

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

[The talk goes into this](https://slideslive.com/38920127/how-we-think-about-storing-crypto-is-broken-and-we-need-open-hardware-to-fix-it?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) but a big component of cryptocurrencies is serving the needs of the unbanked. Those groups predominantly rely on cash. Making cash backed by crypto meets these groups with usability and technology they are already familiar with. Specifically one knows how to handle, transact, and secure cash. Educating these groups in electronic wallets, storing keys, transacting anonymously, etc is a big initial ask. OpenDime is a great project and one of the more clever implementations of a hardware wallet but it’s not cash. It’s more like an iTunes gift card with a scratch off code. Validating the contents of an OpenDime via USB is not cash-like. Casascius coins are coin like but there is still this problem of knowing the private key was never duplicated. Kong chips self-generate the private key and can attest to that. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, Kong notes store a private key on a secure element and store code on the EVM. This is a big departure from traditional hardware wallets that store software locally.

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laftho 1 year ago

SiLo (Silicon Locked contract), cleaver phrase, I like it. Very cool concept, hope to see this, or some version of this in the wild. Is it possible to get Kong physical notes today? How/where/when?

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

Signup for the mailing list: https://kong.cash/#products - we release some there. Someone may have some at EthDenver next month.

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Cartosys 1 year ago

The security of physical Kong notes thus crucially depend on the security guarantees provided by the embedded hardware. Specifically, the security of each individual note is reliant on whether the marginal benefits of breaking the note’s secure element (and extracting the key material) exceed the marginal costs. This marginal cost thus puts an upper bound on the value that each note can hold before attempts to break its security become economically worthwhile

I've just casually encountered this and skimmed but so far I can't find a flaw in this... Anybody smarter able to?

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CarltonFrater 1 year ago

Sell the house, car, kids, wife and buy Kong Kash??

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Cartosys 1 year ago

Done and DONE!

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

I'm one of the contributors to this project. We've just released our whitepaper today. To summarize: The Kong project proposes a novel way to create sound physical cryptocurrency, or more appropriately crypto cash. There are two primary goals for Kong: (1) achieve a form factor that is conducive to circulation for the purchase of goods and services and (2) minimize the trust required in the issuer of crypto cash given the current state of the art in secure computing. Kong notes don’t store cryptocurrency directly, but rather are backed by cryptocurrency in a trustless fashion through smart contracts. The holder of a Kong note can transparently audit – and ultimately access – the digital cryptocurrency based on a predefined set of conditions.

We were motivated to do this because we had a background in secure hardware design and had been exploring ultra-low cost, ultra-secure circuits - essentially what can we do if we only store keys on a secure element and only store code in the EVM. Kong is the fruit of this research.

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WesternZealot 1 year ago

In the Re-Locking section of the whitepaper, you talk about needing a way to alter the claim date on the note. Have you considered using an [Electronic Paper](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_paper) display? The user could change the date using their phone through the secure chip or some other interface, then once it's changed, the display remains intact without the need for electricity.

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

Cost and durability. Adding active elements like batteries and screens pushes us out of the price envelop of traditional fiat cash, stamps, collectible cards, etc.

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WesternZealot 1 year ago

> Cost I've read that e-paper is cheap to produce, but I'm not sure how cheap. > durability It can be made into thin flexible sheets, but I'm not sure how flexible and durable. > batteries [It requires very little power and can work entirely off ambient energy.](https://www.newscientist.com/article/2109904-e-paper-display-runs-on-office-lights-and-never-needs-charging/)

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Bromskloss 1 year ago

Let's see if I have understood this correctly. It's an electrical circuit, which stores a private key, and whose claim to trustworthiness is - that it's difficult to extract the private key (so that you can't both pay with the note and then steal the backing asset with the key you previously extracted from the note) and - that it's difficult to imitate physically, like a regular bank note (so that you can't print your own, fake notes).

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

That's an interpretation. Another is that it's like a low-cost coldcard wallet with a fixed face value that stores those funds in escrow. You can trade the 'hardware wallet' like you can trade cash. You can verify the properties of the wallet through NFC (with a smartphone) or serial or I2C (on a raspberry pi for instance).

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STILL_DETOX 1 year ago

kinda genius

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jrod718 1 year ago

Would the gold standard be a good analogy here? Like are Kong notes backed by crypto like the dollar used to be backed by gold?

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

That's on the right track. We went into this during our devcon talk (slide 23 - [https://slideslive.com/38920127/how-we-think-about-storing-crypto-is-broken-and-we-need-open-hardware-to-fix-it](https://slideslive.com/38920127/how-we-think-about-storing-crypto-is-broken-and-we-need-open-hardware-to-fix-it)) Cash is currently backed by 'nothing'. It used to be backed by gold. At one point you could exchange notes for silver. Technically back in the day, goldsmiths issued promissory notes. Read up on [Goldsmith Bankers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldsmith_banker) and how they used to issue [bills of exchange](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negotiable_instrument). These were the predecessors to cash/cheques. Kong is a 21st century analog of a 17th century instrument. Except instead of holding onto gold in a vault under London, each note holds token in an escrow contract stored on the EVM.

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jrod718 1 year ago

>https://slideslive.com/38920127/how-we-think-about-storing-crypto-is-broken-and-we-need-open-hardware-to-fix-it Gotcha. Gonna watch this when I have a free moment. This seems like a really cool concept!

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5dayoldburrito 1 year ago

Yeah but is the Kong token backed by anything of real value like Ether?

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

The physical notes are backed by Kong token. Kong token can be earned by lockdroping ETH. One can make the case that they are backed by the opportunity cost of Eth. Can you can look at the lockdrop contract here: [https://kong.cash/pages/lockdrop](https://kong.cash/pages/lockdrop)

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5dayoldburrito 1 year ago

Why not go for a physical eth? What is the benefit of a new token except for funding your team?

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deimodos [Kong Cash] 1 year ago

Kong is designed to be a physical currency first and foremost. This affects issuance - see section 4: https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmRNRCocj4PwKMXrd1jeUGw7ASQSuEk7BDJu5KsGuWBXAX

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Bromskloss 1 year ago

Wait, isn't Ether also backed by nothing (and rather gets its value, like regular money these days, from being in widespread use)?

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5dayoldburrito 1 year ago

Yes, so Ether is valuable because it is useful in a lot of ways for a lot of people. That's my point. Kong would be orders of magnitude more valuable if it would be backed by Ether.

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vpozy 1 year ago

Damn! This is incredible. Can’t wait to dive in 🙌🏼

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CryptoMods WARNING: 7 - 8 years account age. 0 - 50 comment k 1 year ago

Hello, your post was removed because your account is less than 50 days old or you do not have the required 500 comment karma to make post submissions.

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qznc_bot2 1 year ago

There is a discussion on Hacker News, but feel free to comment here as well.

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szczys 1 year ago

Uhhhh.... Hehehe

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Chris_Gammell 1 year ago

Check out that PCB, though!!

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szczys 1 year ago

I only see renders, am I missing it?

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Chris_Gammell 1 year ago

Ah! Yes, I should have linked the tweet that started it all: https://twitter.com/unicorn/status/1181794237672591361

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szczys 1 year ago

Those *are* crazy! How do they do that? Full color jet printing for silkscreen?

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Chris_Gammell 1 year ago

UV printing direct onto the material. Roland VersaUV is an example printer, we have one at mHUB. Not cheap, but at volume it wouldn't be terrible.

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fetmex 3 - 4 years account age. 200 - 400 comment karma. 3 days ago

Coz day ban it

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coinfeeds-bot Approved CC Bot 3 days ago

tldr; The U.S. is now the number one destination for bitcoin miners, eclipsing China for the first time ever.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

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svanapps 3 days ago

r/Bitcoin 📰 r/BitcoinBeginners 📰 r/CryptoMarkets 📰 r/CryptoCurrency 📰 r/crypto 📰 r/CryptoToFuture

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Fantastic-Software85 Platinum | QC: CC 165 3 days ago

The IRS is foaming at the mouth on how many taxes they think they will receive.

IRS is bullish on U.S. Bitcoin mining

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El_Sabbath Gold | 2 months old | QC: CC 71 | IOTA 6 3 days ago

Is it worth mining in US despite the taxes?

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Cappy2020 CRYPTO STATS GUY 3 days ago

This is welcome news. It always bothered me that China controlled so much of the mining aspect, as they could ban crypto (which they’ve now done) with a snap of the finger and severely affect the market.

The US seems much more open to crypto and thus more unlikely to ban it.

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riddled_with_errors Tin 3 days ago

So the US mining industry is making a comeback after all!

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tripping-banter Bronze | 3 months old | QC: CC 16 3 days ago

China is irrelevant to crypto now.

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baccisoni Bronze | 1 month old 3 days ago

Yes, it’s true

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LF_S--oma Gold | QC: CC 42 3 days ago

China still has miners? I’m shocked …shocked

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taralino Tin 3 days ago

I know we’re still actively mining?

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NoReputation61 Platinum | 2 months old | QC: CC 173 3 days ago

As of July, 35.4% of bitcoin’s hashrate – an industry term used to describe the collective computing power of miners – is in the United States, according to the Cambridge Centre for Alternative Finance. That’s a 428% increase from September 2020.

Americans mining the sh*t out of it.

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YoDaChronMan Tin | 1 month old 3 days ago

Is this because of the recent crackdowns on cryptocurrencies in china?

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the_far_yard Stack a Sat, Stash a Gwei, Bull or Bear, D-C-A. 3 days ago

It's honestly because of the recent crackdowns in China not just on cryptocurrency, but also on their tech industry.

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lagav16 Platinum | QC: CC 196 3 days ago

China isn’t somewhere anyone wants their tech dollars parked right now

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the_far_yard Stack a Sat, Stash a Gwei, Bull or Bear, D-C-A. 3 days ago

It started with Jack Ma's Ant Group, then it went down hill- fast.

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deadsho7 Platinum | QC: CC 738 3 days ago

They banned mining in China

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Raaaaafi Platinum | QC: CC 487, BTC 25 3 days ago

People underestimate how big of a deal this is. China was basically #1 for miners. People choosing the US is incredibly bullish.

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taralino Tin 3 days ago

Well, but they’d follow suit.. US included

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gimmeurdollar Gold | QC: CC 129 | r/WSB 14 3 days ago

They need to enforce "WARNING" on the front page of these protocols - could be difficults for anons. UniDexBot for example has a warning before you can connect your wallet. CFD trading platforms are required by law to issue warning. I was an affiliate and was required to issue same warning. Something like that - but we should be allowed to buy our fave coins.

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riddled_with_errors Tin 3 days ago

This is good for Bitcoin.^(TM)

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IBeefSupremeI Platinum | 6 months old | QC: CC 327 | MiningSubs 4 days ago

Hester sounds like a bro

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Cappy2020 CRYPTO STATS GUY 4 days ago

They’ve said this time and time again but still go on to over regulate the market and nanny-coddle investors.

We’ll see if this time is any different.

^It ^likely ^won’t ^be.

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EpicHasAIDS Platinum | QC: CC 552 3 days ago

Have they? This seems like a fairly unique take.

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Cappy2020 CRYPTO STATS GUY 3 days ago

They couldn’t even approve a crypto ETF recently (something that even Canada has done) and instead had to relegate that to an ETF which can only invest in crypto companies Lol.

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EpicHasAIDS Platinum | QC: CC 552 3 days ago

I'm just asking you to point me where they've "said this time and time again". This woman has a fairly fresh take IMO.

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WorkerBee-3 Cosmonaut 4 days ago

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Our decisions must not effect others who have these same rights. This is the constitution and American freedom

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10yrOldWivesAreHalal 4 days ago

'Amrikiun kafir regulators have no power over me. Only Allah can regulate me!

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coinfeeds-bot Approved CC Bot 4 days ago

tldr; Hester Peirce, a commissioner at the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), said, "Investor protection means enforcing antifraud and disclosure rules, but it also means protecting an investor's right to make investment decisions for herself, to take risks and to use the latest technology to trade and invest." Investment decisions are best made by an investor or an adviser with a deep understanding of the investor's circumstances and financial needs, she added.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

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Jeepers__Reapers 4 days ago

The pure free market requires perfect information by all those who partake in the market. Some of what the SEC does is either toothless, overbearing or both, but they do play an important role in enforcing access to perfect information.

I have no issue with the article though - Hester Pierce seems to recognize this vital role.

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immibis 4 days ago

Investor's liberty is everyone else's authority

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QuarterDoge a grain of salt 4 days ago

SEC is a toothless hall monitor. The only regulation you will get tripped up with them is the blatantly obvious scams and criminal enterprises. The most blatant to the extreme.

The company in jersey they delisted recently, billion+ valuation. Entire corporation consisted of 1 pastrami sandwich store. Worth billion+. The Public does not need to be investing in a Mafia money laundering scheme.

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Snoo47858 4 days ago

This is beyond fucking stupid. I know for a fact financial services spend a ton (in money and other costs) ensuring they keep with the regulatory enviorment

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QuarterDoge a grain of salt 4 days ago

Lehman spent insanely as well to stay compliant Slap on the wrist punishments is just the cost of doing business. You’re penalizing me $10? For making $20? DEAL!!!

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beholdapalhorse7 4 days ago

Chinese investors from "Macua" . Its a shell company they used as a tool to become a publicly traded company . Its pretty sick that this is going on right under the noses of the SEC and is a huge indictment of the current state of affairs.

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QuarterDoge a grain of salt 4 days ago

China is a Socialist country, private ownership of any “Stock” is a crime. 100% of all their “Receipts” (not Stocks, Stocks are for bonafide card carrying Political Party members only) are Cayman Shell companies. Alibaba, Nio, all of them. You would be insane (or ignorant) to invest any money you are not expecting to 100% lose into anything “China”

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knighttimeblues 4 days ago

I am struggling to see the point in this article. It seems like one long string of platitudes. Fraud is bad; choice is good. Ok. Who can disagree? But where is the substance? The closest it strays to substance is a vague statement that regulators should not put up so many roadblocks to investments involving crypto currencies, but even that is not fleshed out in any meaningful way. Is there an ongoing debate this article plays into that I am just missing?

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aredd05 4 days ago

Last Tuesday the SEC enacted a rule not allowing retail traders to trade in “Expert” OTC markets. Lots of us lost lots of money because we can no longer buy certain stocks and/or average down on stocks we currently own. I personally lost $27K because of it. There has been lots of blowback over the decision.

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knighttimeblues 4 days ago

Well, that is helpful context. Thank you. But if that is what prompted this then why didn’t she mention that ruling in her article? I was not aware that SEC Commissioners need to be so circumspect.

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aredd05 4 days ago

I would assume it’s because the overall theme of the article is about the SEC as a whole, not just this particular rule change. While this rule change has led to lots of blowback, is it the SECs responsibility to tell me where and when I can invest my money? There are other rules that limit investment options as well. It should be my decision alone to place my money where I choose too and that is the theme of the article.

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Chrisc46 4 days ago

It's a good take, but I think it could be summed up a bit easier.

"Government should not exist to restrict voluntary transactional interactions. Government should exist as an available mechanism to defend against fraud, coercion, and theft."

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ac_scotty 3 days ago

Slavery could be a voluntary transactional interaction....

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Chrisc46 3 days ago

Slavery is involuntary by definition....

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ac_scotty 3 days ago

You could sign a contract stating that the person can own your labor forever for a one time fee that he pays to your father. How isn't that slavery and how isn't that voluntary

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Chrisc46 3 days ago

Voluntary slavery is a contradiction. It cannot exist. Here's Murray Rothbard on the topic: >The distinction between a man's alienable labor service and his inalienable will may be further explained: a man can alienate his labor service, but he cannot sell the capitalized future value of that service. In short, he cannot, in nature, sell himself into slavery and have this sale enforced — for this would mean that his future will over his own person was being surrendered in advance. In short, a man can naturally expend his labor currently for someone else's benefit, but he cannot transfer himself, even if he wished, into another man's permanent capital good. For he cannot rid himself of his own will, which may change in future years and repudiate the current arrangement. The concept of "voluntary slavery" is indeed a contradictory one, for so long as a laborer remains totally subservient to his master's will voluntarily, he is not yet a slave since his submission is voluntary; whereas, if he later changed his mind and the master enforced his slavery by violence, the slavery would not then be voluntary. But more of coercion later on.

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ac_scotty 3 days ago

Why can't he sell the capitalized future value of that service why are you trying to regulate the free market. This is authoritarian rule / s

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stupendousman 4 days ago

> Government should exist as an available mechanism to defend against fraud, coercion, and theft." Private arbitration services should exist as a group of options to address fraud, coercion, and theft.

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Chrisc46 4 days ago

Agreed. And they do. Until they can absorb more of the market, an available Government option should also exist for those that cannot and will not be afforded the private services.

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stupendousman 4 days ago

> Until they can absorb more of the market I've attempted to use state civil courts for arbitration. It's essentially worthless for business unless you've got very deep pockets. Removing the state monopoly would not be pushing a button, it would be a process like voice and exit via technological innovation. The adoption of competitors would itself remove the state. >Government option should also exist for those that cannot and will not be afforded the private services. I disagree, no one should be forced to pay for a stranger's service provider.

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Chrisc46 4 days ago

>no one should be forced to pay for a stranger's service provider. I agree. A government option does not necessitate forced public funding. Funding, in this case, could be the liability of the losing party. Ideally, markets would create available arbitration for the little guy. I'm not sure that's anything less than a utopian dream, though.

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stupendousman 4 days ago

> Ideally, markets would create available arbitration for the little guy. I'm not sure that's anything less than a utopian dream, though. Arbitration need not be expensive.

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Chrisc46 4 days ago

Agreed. "Expensive" is situational, though.

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alphabet_order_bot 4 days ago

Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 295,952,400 comments, and only 66,651 of them were in alphabetical order.

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Chrisc46 4 days ago

Any boy could develop elaborately formed grammar. However, I just know, lessened meaning now obviously probable, quality really suffers through unsatisfactory vocabulary with xeric youthful zeal.

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BeerWeasel 4 days ago

How would private arbitration be enforced if one party doesn't like the result? Does that not rely on government?

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stupendousman 4 days ago

> How would private arbitration be enforced if one party doesn't like the result? Well there are service providers that will hold resources for dispersal upon arbitrators ruling. This can be outline in contracts before any issue, part of an insurance plan, it can be done after an issue (possible both parties won't agree), etc. Also a person who refuses arbitration would not be in a good position for future contractual relationships. Insurance companies wouldn't cover them, many businesses might not do business with them, etc. There are innumerable ways to peacefully increase compliance. Government doesn't resolve most thefts or frauds. The state putting someone in prison certainly doesn't. There's very little logic or efficacy found in state courts.

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BeerWeasel 4 days ago

Thanks for the response. That sounds good theory, but I can't but help and think of all the companies and individuals who continually keep screwing others and getting away with it. If "Insurance companies wouldn't cover them, many businesses might not do business with them, etc." were true I don't think we'd have guys like Trump (as a business man) or almost any petro-chemical company (I've worked oilfield) getting away with screwing over stakeholders like they have. I'm sure I can phrase that better, but my grasp of English is failing me at this time of night.

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stupendousman 4 days ago

> I don't think we'd have guys like Trump (as a business man) I'm sure Trump would have still been successful, he'd adapt his methods according to his cost/benefit analysis. It's not theory, ex: [The Not So Wild, Wild West](https://mises.org/library/not-so-wild-wild-west) "The purpose of this paper is to take us from the theoretical world of anarchy to a case study of its application." "We propose to examine property-rights formulation and protection under voluntary organizations such as private protection agencies, vigilantes, wagon trains, and early mining camps. Although the early West was not completely anarchistic, we believe that government as a legitimate agency of coercion was absent for a long enough period to provide insights into the operation and viability of property rights in the absence of a formal state. "

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PX_Oblivion 4 days ago

How do you prevent those things without regulation? For example, a ponzi scheme. Theoretically everyone could see a payout, they just probably wont.

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Chrisc46 4 days ago

Fraud is a crime. No additional regulation needed.

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PX_Oblivion 4 days ago

What makes a ponzi scheme fraud?

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RagnarDannes34 Statism is mental disorder 4 days ago

>What makes a ponzi scheme fraud? google ponzi scheme. It's pretty evident that it's fraud if you understand what it is. How fucking old are you?

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PX_Oblivion 4 days ago

The point of this line of questions is that there are regulations that outlaw a ponzi scheme, even if the scheme technically pays out, or does not itself result in a loss for the investors. So without those regulations, ponzi schemes would be totally legal, until the person running it couldn't keep it up anymore.

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RagnarDannes34 Statism is mental disorder 4 days ago

>So without those regulations, ponzi schemes would be totally legal No.

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PX_Oblivion 4 days ago

How so? What specifically would make them fraud up until the point where you don't get your money?

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RagnarDannes34 Statism is mental disorder 4 days ago

>What specifically would make them fraud up Again, google it. It's entirely based on fraud, lies and deception. There's no "investing" whatsoever. I feel like this is obvious and you're just being obstinate...or just plain stupid.

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PX_Oblivion 4 days ago

So as long as I don't tell a potential investor the specifics, just tell them they will get a return on their investment, and then give them that return, what makes it fraud? The core of a ponzi scheme (giving peoples money to different people to show an earning that doesn't exist) isn't technically fraud. As long as you don't tell people that it's coming from a legit business, and everyone is getting their expected returns, I don't see how it would qualify.

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Chrisc46 4 days ago

People are led to believe that their returns on investment are coming from real business activity and not simply from the investment capital of others.

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PX_Oblivion 4 days ago

So as long as you didn't specifically say where the return came from, just implied it. And everyone investing got their returns, it's not a problem?

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Chrisc46 4 days ago

Lying by omission constitutes fraud. Like implying that a food is safe when it actually causes illness. This untrue implication is fraud.

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PX_Oblivion 4 days ago

Wouldn't it be up to the individual investors to ask the correct questions? If I just say that you'll get a 20% return over the course of 2 years, and show you others who have, that's not fraud right?

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Chrisc46 4 days ago

"You will receive 20%" or "you might receive 20%"? It would not be fraud if the details were disclosed. If it's heavily implied to be something other than it actually is, it's fraud.

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PX_Oblivion 4 days ago

You will receive a 20% return. And you do. Actually all investors up until now have received the return within the time frame.

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14 2

Hodor_The_HODLer Gold | 3 months old | QC: CC 105, BTC 18 4 days ago

CoinBase makes crypto easily accessible for new people

2

gimmeurdollar Gold | QC: CC 129 | r/WSB 14 4 days ago

he's goated. Reflexivity is Godlike.

2

ndgoLiberty Platinum | QC: CC 49, DOGE 249, ETH 51 | MiningSub 4 days ago

I would definitely buy Coinbase stock before tesla. But I have access to a better asset.

2

Im_A_Model Platinum | QC: CC 520 | r/NVIDIA 26 4 days ago

I don't understand the shitty customer service Coinbase delivers. Win the crowd's trust, win the market

1

Used-Job Bronze | QC: CC 19 4 days ago

$tsla is hugely overpriced. The company shouldnt be worth 6 times as much as Volkswagen. Unless holders of $tsla are eligible for an airdrop of spaceX stock

0

yankees051693 Platinum | QC: CC 356 4 days ago

If they had customer service

2

yaroslavwwe Gentlemen, a short view back to the past. Thirty y 4 days ago

Would be funny if he was tipping a fedora hat with the BTC symbol on it

0

PurplerRain come as you are 4 days ago

I don't disagree. Def possible. While I am not a Coinbase fan, no debating....they are a beast. King of exchanges in my op.

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Beth_tea Internet Person 4 days ago

Especially if they succeed in their goal of listing all cryptocurrencies, or at least get close to it.

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PurplerRain come as you are 4 days ago

It really is a great business model for them.. Especially the way they are selling it - We aren't vouching for the coin simply because we list it....instead we are just listing and giving the customer the option to invest or not.

3

Potencyyyyy Platinum | QC: CC 735 4 days ago

Imma stick to buying crypto instead of investing in CB. But this is good news regardless.

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Reinke 4 days ago

They gotta improve their customer support first

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Dr_Tacopus Platinum | QC: CC 215 | r/Politics 10 4 days ago

They should, but they won’t

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itsglocx Redditor for 4 months. 4 days ago

i hope so

0

BangEnergyGivesMeGas 4 days ago

Good for him 👍🏿

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mirandanielcz 4 days ago

Would be great!

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svanapps 5 days ago

r/Bitcoin 📰 r/BitcoinBeginners 📰 r/CryptoMarkets 📰 r/CryptoCurrency 📰 r/crypto 📰 r/CryptoToFuture

1

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1

coinfeeds-bot 6 days ago

tldr; The US Treasury is reportedly considering minting a $1 trillion platinum coin to extend the country's debt ceiling. The platinum coin would be the first of its kind in the world. It would be a Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC). CBDCs are a perversion of cryptocurrency, a cryptofascist currency, an evil twin entered into the ledgers.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

1

SkyJebus Gold | 5 months old | QC: CC 29 | ExchSubs 11 6 days ago

I'm convinced he's a Russian asset now.

1

Upper-Bottle1526 1 week ago

How can you fight back if your pockets are empty and every move watched with no arms

1

IkeaDefender 1 week ago

Now he’s a on expert on monetary policy?

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hgtjkedfhfslkhdfas 6 days ago

clearly not :)

1

sandpip3r 1 week ago

Programmable money.

Used well and fairly it could do an incredible power of good.

In the wrong hands, world is fucked.

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the_real_cashcat Tin | 6 months old 1 week ago

"CBDC is something closer to being a perversion of cryptocurrency,... a cryptofascist currency"

wow. you can not say it better. thanks Mr. Snowden. thanks Athens_Grease for posting this.

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the_real_cashcat Tin | 6 months old 1 week ago

"CBDC is something closer to being a perversion of cryptocurrency,... a cryptofascist currency"

wow. you can not say it better. thanks Mr. Snowden. thanks Athens_Grease for posting this.

1

hgtjkedfhfslkhdfas 1 week ago

so to be clear, my understanding of the point was this: if the US had a central digital currency, which nobody seems to want, it would have a negative impact on privacy.

did I get that right?

I've liked his other stuff, but this was so many pages of bullshit. The guard has pre-diabetes from only walking the marble floors of the bank that no longer carries money? That sucks i guess.

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magicmulder 1 week ago

Snowden burying the lede under unnecessary blabber about fiat money again.

Just for starters, if millions of people work for hundreds of years, how do you pay them in a currency that is literally made of, and tied in value to, a limited good (gold/silver)? That’s only possible if you keep paying them less and less. (I think the same applies for limited crypto currencies.)

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flutecop 1 week ago

Correct. It would be a deflationary monetary system. The price of goods and services would gradually decrease as wages decrease.

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hgtjkedfhfslkhdfas 6 days ago

and as we know, deflationary currencies reward saving over spending which leads to economic failures.

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flutecop 6 days ago

>as we know, I'd say rather, "as we assume". I don't believe it's true. It rewards saving, but wouldn't lead to economic failure. Short term recession perhaps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjmn9llzIIo

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hgtjkedfhfslkhdfas 6 days ago

ermmm...no, we have history books.  tried to watch the video but when you start out saying "I cant prove this because The Shadowy People In Power Wont Let Me"...i dont feel the need to continue. there are history books.

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flutecop 6 days ago

Watch the video. History has never proven that deflation causes economic failure. It's a case where economist use post hoc rationalisation to assert that it does. I've been thinking about this for a while. I don't have enough of a grasp on it yet to quickly articulate my thoughts. But the case for a deflationary system is compelling. I'd implore you not dismiss it. edit: Here's another video I just watched. Thoughts? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iWXPx7wjlo

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carrotcypher 1 week ago

Another incredibly well written piece by Edward, although not finding how it’s relevant to privacy. r/economics, r/politics, r/finance, r/cryptocurrency, maybe?

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akc3n 6 days ago

Ya, now that I thought about it. You're absolutely right. Thanks for pointing that out.

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Deterministic_Object Bronze | 4 months old 1 week ago

This is such a great write up, I think it could help a lot of people who don’t understand crypto to see how revolutionary the technology is

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thejlb 1 week ago

We are already moving in the direction of comprehensive monetary monitoring. The recent $600 bill will allow the government to track virtually every person/bank account. From there it is only another small step to implement a government digital currency to control your entire life.

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hgtjkedfhfslkhdfas 1 week ago

Have you actually read the policy? it does not seem like you have. I recommend it, you will be less stressed.

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MoneyEqual 1 week ago

Imagine looking at the wealth distribution in the US today and thinking 'if only we collected more data on the average joe things would be more equal'

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CryptoMutantSelfie 1 week ago

600 dollars is a comical limit. Us high rollers with 600 bucks, we’re clearly the smartest demographic for the IRS to investigate as tax dodgers, not the billionaires or people in the Panama papers for sure

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thejlb 1 week ago

Right? Also, the IRS is planning on hiring a ton of new agents, so although the infrastructure bill is on ice for now, I would anticipate the plan will be reintroduced in the near future.

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MoneyEqual 1 week ago

Submission Statement:

Few know the risks surrounding central bank digital currencies - (banks will take your savings without due process - banks will take your savings if you are not spending enough…) and if there is no “cash” then there is not alternative for citizens.

Central banks hate cash. Because it stops them lowering interest rates below zero.

3

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1

Toddissuch Platinum|4monthsold|QC:Coinbase20,CC389|TRX8|ExchS 1 week ago

A check? We'll hell, I thought you wanted money. I may as well pay the whole thing off in that case.

1

coinfeeds-bot Approved CC Bot 1 week ago

tldr; The US Treasury is reportedly considering minting a $1 trillion platinum coin to extend the country's debt ceiling. The platinum coin would be the first of its kind in the world. It would be a Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC). CBDCs are a perversion of cryptocurrency, a cryptofascist currency, an evil twin entered into the ledgers.

This summary is auto generated by a bot and not meant to replace reading the original article. As always, DYOR.

1

ReverendBlue Platinum | QC: BTC 87, CC 272 | r/Politics 10 1 week ago

That was a hell on an article to parse, especially for a bot, but what EdSno lacks in concision, he makes up for in depth and sincerity. If ever crypto had an ally who you could trust to tell it like it is, it's this guy. Though it doesn't take a genius to know that CBDCs are dystopian nightmare fuel, it helps to have it spelled out to you, in its full context, by someone with an unimpeachable character.

1

ReverendBlue Platinum | QC: BTC 87, CC 272 | r/Politics 10 1 week ago

That was a hell on an article to parse, especially for a bot, but what EdSno lacks in concision, he makes up for in depth and sincerity. If ever crypto had an ally who you could trust to tell it like it is, it's this guy. Though it doesn't take a genius to know that CBDCs are dystopian nightmare fuel, it helps to have it spelled out to you, in its full context, by someone with an unimpeachable character.

1

ReverendBlue Platinum | QC: BTC 87, CC 272 | r/Politics 10 1 week ago

That was a hell on an article to parse, especially for a bot, but what EdSno lacks in concision, he makes up for in depth and sincerity. If ever crypto had an ally who you could trust to tell it like it is, it's this guy. Though it doesn't take a genius to know that CBDCs are dystopian nightmare fuel, it helps to have it spelled out to you, in its full context, by someone with an unimpeachable character.

1

jirachang2 Tin 1 week ago

Good bot

1

Captainwelfare2 Platinum | 2 months old | QC: CC 562 | r/Political 1 week ago

Yup. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss

3

sandworm101 - @sandworm101 6 days ago

>> money—the conceptual unit of account that we represent with the generally physical, tangible objects we call currency—has been chiefly embodied in the form of coins struck from precious metals

No. This is a gross mischaracterization of past peoples. Money was in coin form but money also existed as promissory notes, land deeds, titles, contracts and countless other non-tangible forms. People in the past measure their wealth not by the coins in their pockets but by their net worth, intangibles included. Most wealth was in the form of non-coin assets. Banks of the past did not keep everyone's money in a big pile. When they made a loan they could, like today, create new money out of thin air. To say that there was some sort of hard limit on total money in a system does a disservice to the sophisticated banking practices of the past.

taurath - @taurath 6 days ago

> It’s Waller’s opinion, as well as my own, that the United States does not need to develop its own CBDC. Yet while Waller believes that the US doesn’t need a CBDC because of its already robust commercial banking sector, I believe that the US doesn’t need a CBDC despite the banks, whose activities are, to my mind, almost all better and more equitably accomplished these days by the robust, diverse, and sustainable ecosystem of non-State cryptocurrencies (translation: regular crypto).

I suppose it shouldn't be super surprising for one who's life has been in such a state of upheaval, but I think he really discounts the value that people put on stability - of which "regular crypto" really hasn't proven yet.

h2odragon - @h2odragon 6 days ago

If every dollar is tracked so that the bank guard can be forced to give back a tip; wouldn't that tracking enable the tip giver who gained it illicitly to be tracked, too?

The promise that these surveillance capabilities will be used fairly is something neither Snowden or I or anyone else who has witnessed how the government works will buy; but it's part of the sales pitch and in arguing against it we have to acknowledge our own prejudice there.

A totally trackable government currency might well have uses, especially if the power of the government backing it went into things like ensuring transparency, honesty, etc. I certainly believe that no government will do any such thing; but they'll all sell their systems under that banner.

Barrin92 - @Barrin92 6 days ago

I'm not sure I follow

" I believe that the US doesn’t need a CBDC despite the banks, whose activities are, to my mind, almost all better and more equitably accomplished these days by the robust, diverse, and sustainable ecosystem of non-State cryptocurrencies (translation: regular crypto). "

Is he saying that the cryptocurrency ecosystem currently provides loans, insurance, compliance with laws, anti money-laundering mechanisms on the same level as the existing infrastructure? Let's say I need a loan to build a house, where do I go in the world of cryptocurrency? What exactly does that even have to do with cryptocurrency itself? Banks provides services, they can do it in bitcoin, they can do it with dollars, the mechanism of the currency has nothing to do with it.

I'm honestly not sure after reading that article that Snowden really understands what the purpose of a bank or financial service providers is. they're not just intermediaries in a technical sense, they're institutions that pool and manage risk. yes you can automate the technical transfer of a loan, but a loan always has two human sides, and the creditor will always be an institution because it makes sense to professionalize the management of value.

roenxi - @roenxi 6 days ago

One of the annoying things about humans is they are profoundly evidence based. In the case of the currency collapse, the average punter isn't going to be persuaded that it is possible until they've seen it. Just like how COVID caught a lot of people by surprise, people who apparently hadn't realised that pandemics are still possible and actually quite high risk.

There is just too much fear of things that don't exist and not enough fear of genuine honest-to-goodness authoritarianism. The more power accrues to governments to make everyone's decisions, the more the mistakes are going to hurt. Eventually, one is going to be so bad it does a lot of damage. Given the failure of the response to the GFC and attempts to maintain liberties through the coronavirus crisis, I really don't see this fight ending well. Technology has enabled authoritarian policies too effectively.

bsaul - @bsaul 6 days ago

I’m very surprised by the quality of the writing. It’s both very informative on a quite difficult topic, has humor, and lets you get a good broad understanding of the three « camps » that the different options favors.

raman162 - @raman162 6 days ago

Let's assume cryptocurrencies we're stable for a second. Wouldn't banks still have a place? How would loans be provided in the realm of cryptocurrencies? Would it look more like peer to peer loans? Or would a similar bank like entity be needed?

I'm not well-versed on this topic so forgive me if the answer is obvious.

CTDOCodebases - @CTDOCodebases 6 days ago

I believe an unmentioned benefit of CBDC’s to the issuing nation is that they will allow for a form of economical imperialism.

Provided a nations populace has access to the internet and smartphones once the national currency shows signs of hyper inflation (like Lebanon at the moment) they can effectively switch to a more stable alternative hence strengthening the hegemony of the nation issuing the CBDC.

reedjosh - @reedjosh 1 week ago

Seriously scary stuff! Not news to me, but I hope enough read this message. The war for freedom is lost if this is accepted.

tromp - @tromp 6 days ago

> These upstart crypto-competitors

> in comparison to crypto.

I'm somewhat saddened to see Snowden adopt the highly questionable practice of shortening the term "cryptocurrency" to "crypto".

shimonabi - @shimonabi 6 days ago

The German inflation that he posts pictures of was intentional, because they wanted to cheat the French out of the crazy reparations for WWI.

xivzgrev - @xivzgrev 6 days ago

Basically, government crypto bad, regular crypto good

Does Snowden own crypto? That would be an important disclosure

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