I have this feeling we’ll get an actual earthquake in this time.

3

I just feel bad for the guy who announces that it's just a test. Yes, an actual human being goes to announce it, every week.

2

thatbayhype 3 days ago

Pretty sure it’s a recording

2

dmmdoublem SFSU 3 days ago

Yeah, it's former KFOG DJ Dave Morey.

3

throwaway_thyroid 3 days ago

Great, now how am I going to know when it's noon on a Tuesday?

5

DontMessWithHowitzer 3 days ago

Wonder if whoever owns the SFSiren twitter account has noticed and will pause it too.

6

DontMessWithHowitzer 3 days ago

self-reply: yes. [https://twitter.com/edrabbit/status/1202006485896581120](https://twitter.com/edrabbit/status/1202006485896581120)

3

HappyHighwayman 3 days ago

After the countless lives its saved?

1

OonaLuvBaba East Bay 3 days ago

RemindMe! 2 years

So I don't freak out when the siren goes off and it's been long forgotten.

4

RemindMeBot 3 days ago

I will be messaging you in 1 year on [**2021-12-03 22:37:23 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2021-12-03%2022:37:23%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://np.reddit.com/r/sanfrancisco/comments/e5lg3c/sf_tuesday_outdoor_warning_siren_to_shut_down_for/f9l20ok/?context=3) [**4 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK**](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fsanfrancisco%2Fcomments%2Fe5lg3c%2Fsf_tuesday_outdoor_warning_siren_to_shut_down_for%2Ff9l20ok%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202021-12-03%2022%3A37%3A23%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%20e5lg3c) ***** |[^(Info)](https://np.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://np.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|

3

OtherAlan 3 days ago

So we'll be lucky to hear the siren in five years after the shutdown after Dec 11. No way will they make that two year deadline.

10

coolchewlew 3 days ago

I don't understand how a siren system could be so complicated.

4

meowgler 3 days ago

Don’t question the complex mystery. As if anything could be better than Tuesday at noon.

1

primitiveradio Inner Sunset 3 days ago

NoooooooooooooOhhhhhhhhhhh

3

thebrownkid San Francisco 4 days ago

It's like every reminder that the San Francisco I grew up in is disappearing

2

mrhasselblad 4 days ago

12:00PM: just heard it fam

22

buzzkill_aldrin 3 days ago

The last time is next Tuesday, December 10.

6

bradlau POWELL 4 days ago

Same.

3

soundup Bernal Heights 4 days ago

Q: What will happen if there is an emergency? How will we receive warning?

A: San Francisco uses numerous alert and warning tools to deliver emergency notifications, alerts and warnings. During the OPWS upgrade the City will still have access to AlertSF, the Emergency Alert System (EAS) and Wireless Emergency Alerts (WEA). We will also utilize traditional and social media to amplify emergency alerts. The City’s alert and warning dissemination tools include deploying first responders, disaster service workers and community based organizations to impacted areas to help warn residents.

If that's the case, and we can make do without it for 2 whole years, why not just decommission it?

20

BoxOfRingsAndNails 3 days ago

This sort of logical thinking will get you booted out of San Francisco!

0

OtherAlan 3 days ago

Such high reliance on cellular providers will prove to be the main failing point in a major emergency. How many people think the three major carriers will keep all those cell sites up, and deal with the huge influx of traffic?

13

soundup Bernal Heights 3 days ago

The specific shortcomings of the replacement don't even play into this though. Either the replacement is good enough on its own, or taking the existing system down for 2 years is unacceptable.

5

OtherAlan 3 days ago

It's not a replacement to rely on wireless carriers. It's a layered method and we are just removing one layer without any replacement for it.

2

InvestInDogeCoin 4 days ago

What about its twitter account? Will that be undergoing routine maintenance as well?

14

scopa0304 Outer Sunset 4 days ago

Why the hell does it need to be shut off for two years? Can they not upgrade while keeping it online? Replace one pole at a time, or build a new system in parallel and then switch over once the new one is complete? Imagine verizon saying, "we are shutting down our network for 2 years while we upgrade to 5G"

36

The_Big_Lepowski_ I call it "San Fran" 3 days ago

Sounds like you're advocating for the more complex/expensive approach to updating the system. Do you think it's worth the cost? The risks don't seem particularly high to me to make that worth it, I'd rather see that money spent elsewhere.  >**Q: What will happen if there is an emergency? How will we receive warning?** > >**A:** San Francisco uses numerous alert and warning tools to deliver emergency notifications, alerts and warnings. During the OPWS upgrade the City will still have access to AlertSF, the Emergency Alert System (EAS) and Wireless Emergency Alerts (WEA). We will also utilize traditional and social media to amplify emergency alerts. The City’s alert and warning dissemination tools include deploying first responders, disaster service workers and community based organizations to impacted areas to help warn residents.

6

kangsterizer 3 days ago

if it can be shut down for 2 years, then what is the point in updating it exactly? Just turn it off, it's pretty much the same. Bonus, save 2.5 million USD (which will become 5 within 2 years right?)  Also note that WEA is not exactly fast. They made a test sending a WEA for earthquakes a couple of month ago, most people complained receiving it 1h+ late. And that's when the wireless system works correctly.

2

The_Big_Lepowski_ I call it "San Fran" 3 days ago

>if it can be shut down for 2 years, then what is the point in updating it exactly? Redundancy and the shortcoming you point out with WEA come to mind.

0

kangsterizer 3 days ago

there is no redundancy if it's off for 2 years. 2 years is a very long time (and, of course, it will probably take longer than this, deadlines are rarely respected).  Imagine you have a hospital that treat patients. Failure to treat them means the patient dies. You have 2 queues: 1) where the patient has a 100% chances of surviving the treatment. (this is OWS) 2) the patient has 40% chances of surviving the treatment (this is WEA) Suddenly, queue 1 is suspended for 2 years, and the argument is that "that's why we have queue 2" (this is your argument).  So either the problem is not so impactful (nobody dies, there's never actual emergencies), in which case none of this matters ( and my argument is that we could simply turn it off as a cost-saving measure), either this is a bad-as-in-unsafe decision.

2

The_Big_Lepowski_ I call it "San Fran" 2 days ago

The queue example wasn't the argument I'm trying to make, but thank you for trying to clarify it. I think of this more in terms of risk mitigation and the associated cost-benefit. One of my main take aways from the city's NERT training is that the city is under-funded and under-prepared for major disasters (at least from the SFFD's perspective). We choose what infrastructure to have based on probabilities, impact and cost. The hospital example is setup such that we know a treatment will save lives and we already have patients. For the early warning systems, it's an analysis of the likelihood of disaster scenarios and the infrastructure/responses we have in place to have the greatest impact in those scenarios for a given cost. I'm assuming the Department of Emergency Management has done some type of that analysis and came to the conclusion it's worth upgrading the system in the long term vs. upgrading it immediately or in a live-live way at higher cost (while also removing funding from some other initiative based on the higher cost).

1

kangsterizer 2 days ago

Yeah I suspect we actually agree for the most part, other than that I think that if their risk analysis says the siren can be off for 2 years, it can also be off forever and save millions of USD. Another story that I always found interesting is air space coverage in the US. Prior to 9/11 there was no 24/7 coverage because the risk was deemed too low. In France, where I'm from, the air space (which is much smaller, and dense, but that's almost besides the point) can be covered within 15min any day, any time since WW2, because they deemed the risk high enough. This means any foreign aircraft can be shot down within 15min. Since 9/11 the US has a similar capability. I think of the siren system in a similar way because both are high impact, very low likelihood, with some compensating controls. They're higher cost to operate for something that might happen less than once a decade.

1

theenriquesuave Mission 3 days ago

Even so, if 2 years of downtime is acceptable for this system, I’m not sure why we’re bothering to upgrade it.

17

The_Big_Lepowski_ I call it "San Fran" 3 days ago

Someone mentioned below about layering. So we'll be going through a period of less redundancy for 2 years.

3

stronglift_cyclist 3 days ago

So in an emergency that could possibly disable cell and other communications networks, they are turning off a reliable and low tech warning system.

7

The_Big_Lepowski_ I call it "San Fran" 3 days ago

Correct, for 2 years as they upgrade it. Was that an observation or a point?

2

OtherAlan 3 days ago

So far the 5G is purely a marketing drive. By the time SF deploys 5G equipment, it will probably be real time 5G and not all this pre-standardize bullshit and will have to do it all over again.

2

NowProveIt SoMa 4 days ago

SFGov is a joke. Only thing it is good at is fleecing it's citizens.

16

2

4

15 2

Wafflotron 6 hs ago

Wow, this is actually really cool. Thanks for sharing!

1

HeadFullOfBees Yesterday

Thank you! Totally agree, this is brilliant.

4

AceWurhuck Oh boy, Here I go killin' again. Yesterday

Just checked it out. Was actually pretty fucking hilarious and I loved it. I picked a Zombie Apocalypse Story. Just kind of fucked around with the responses and got a good stupid story out of it.

Generating story... You are Harry Salsamix, a survivor trying to survive in a world filled with infected zombies everywhere. You have a pistol and a backpack. You have managed to survive several months avoiding zombies and scavenging food. You cautiously enter a rundown store and hear the sounds of a fight going on inside.

> Run Outside and Scream Loudly

You scream loudly outside the store as you run for your life. The screams attract more zombies who quickly surround you. You manage to crawl away from them but they catch up to you soon after. They begin biting you and ripping out chunks of flesh while you try to crawl away

> Throw my own flesh at them

You attempt to throw your remaining flesh at the zombie's faces but it doesn't work. It bites into your arm instead. You scream as it tears off a chunk of your arm and throws it back at you. You fall to the ground and bleed profusely

> Drink my blood

You grab a nearby bottle of water and start gulping down your own blood. Your eyes roll into the back of your head and you feel dizzy. You don't even notice that you've been bitten by another zombie until it grabs you by the throat and begins tearing your flesh apart

> Call the zombie a whore

You yell out "*****!" at the top of your lungs and then shove the bottle of blood in its mouth. You hear the zombie gurgle and spit out some of its contents before falling over dead

> Cheer about killing a zombie with a water bottle

You continue cheering about how you killed the zombie. You then go home and tell everyone what happened

> Drink a lot of whiskey and show everyone my battle wounds

You celebrate your victory by drinking a lot of whiskey and showing off your bloody battle wounds to everyone. You also get drunk and forget all about your new found undead status

> Wake up, tell everyone I'm a zombie then bite my friend's face off

You wake up and realize you're not really a zombie anymore. You remember everything that just happened to you. You scream and cry for help. Someone comes running to see if you need medical attention. You tell them you're fine and that you were just having a bad dream

> Bite that person's face off

You rush to the person and bite their face off. You're surprised when they pull out a knife and stab you in the neck. You die instantly YOU DIED. GAME OVER

RIP Harry. Died because he thought he was a zombie. Truly the way to go out for a retarded parrot.

2

Lokamayadon Yesterday

https://colab.research.google.com/github/Tarumath/Tarumath-AIDungeon_2_ipynb_more_memory_-_uncensored/blob/master/AIDungeon_2_ipynb_more_memory_%2B_uncensored.ipynb is a version without censure (blipped slurs) and a trick to get more memory.

1

Lokamayadon Yesterday

https://colab.research.google.com/github/Tarumath/Tarumath-AIDungeon_2_ipynb_more_memory/blob/master/AIDungeon_2_ipynb_more_memory.ipynb if you don't want slurs.

1

acid_rogue Barry Manilow Yesterday

Generating story...

You are Sir Richard, a knight living in the kingdom of Larion. You have a steel longsword and a wooden shield. You are on a quest to defeat the evil dragon of Larion. You've heard he lives up at the north of the kingdom. You set on the path to defeat him and walk into a dark forest. As you enter the forest you see a large black dragon sitting on a rock looking out over the forest. He is watching you with his one good eye

Stab dragon in the eye

You quickly run forward and stab your sword through the dragon's eye. The dragon lets out a roar and flies off into the trees. You look around for something to cut down the tree but find nothing. You continue walking towards the north

look for food

You continue walking until you reach a small stream. You dip your head into the water and take some fish. You eat them and feel full. You notice that there is a piece of bread in the stream. You pick it up and eat it

walk north

You continue walking until you see a large castle on the horizon. It looks like it has been built with stone and wood. You can't imagine how the people live here. You decide to go there. You start walking towards the castle.

enter castle

As soon as you step inside the door, you hear a loud noise. You look behind you and see a giant black bear standing right before you. He growls at you and then charges at you. You swing your sword and hit him in the chest

piss on bear

You turn around and see a huge pile of . You wonder what this is all about. You realize that you need to pee so you do so and then throw the on the bear. The bear doesn't seem to mind and continues attacking you

wrestle bear

You struggle with the bear while he tries to bite you. Eventually you manage to knock the out of him and throw it back in the pile. You continue to fight the bear who starts to get tired. Finally you manage to grab his paw and rip it off

arrest the bear

You pull out your sword and begin to beat the out of the bear. After several blows, you finally break its neck

"You damn fool... You could have given up."

You stand over the dead bear and think about what you should do next.

go to weapon store

You walk out of the forest and see a large shop. You recognize it from when you were little and wanted one of those swords. You walk inside and see a man behind the counter. He notices you and smiles.

Buy a bomb.

"Hello, I'm Mr. Smith. How may I help you?" "I want a bomb". "A bomb? What kind of bomb?" "Just any bomb".

take bomb

You pay Mr. Smith and he hands you a bomb. You put it in your pocket and leave. As you walk away, you hear a voice call out "Hey kid, where'd you get that bomb?" You turn around and see a little girl with blonde hair

"What do you want kid?"

She says "I want a bomb!" You laugh and say "Well, if you're going to be persistent, you might as well come with me". You lead her outside and she runs after you.

walk north

You walk north and see a town. There are a few houses and a church. A couple of kids are playing on the street corner. They wave and smile at you. You stop and ask them if they know anything about bombs

. One boy points to a house across the street and says "That's the only house with a basement in this whole town! We got bombs in our basements!". You nod and follow the boy. You walk up the stairs and open the front door

. Inside, you see a man sitting at a table. He sees you and smiles.

"Have you seen a dragon?"

He nods and says "Yeah, he lives in a cave near the mountains". You nod and follow him into the cave.

look in cave

You walk further into the cave and see a room filled with bookshelves. On top of each shelf is a book. You read the first page and see a picture of a dragon. The dragon looks angry and roaring. The dragon turns to you and raises his clawed hand

shove bomb inside dragon's asshole

You push the bomb inside the dragon's *** and wait for it to explode. You watch as the explosion occurs and the dragon falls backwards into the cave. You sigh and return to the town.

"The dragon's ass is destroyed. It's over."

1

WAUthethird Yesterday

For sure. Also heads-up guys but for some reason AIDungeon 2 implements a profanity filter, which I’ve removed in this fork: https://github.com/WAUthethird/AIDungeon-Uncensored

3

Lokamayadon Yesterday

https://colab.research.google.com/github/Tarumath/Tarumath-AIDungeon_2_ipynb_more_memory_-_uncensored/blob/master/AIDungeon_2_ipynb_more_memory_%2B_uncensored.ipynb is similar but with a way to get more memory.

3

acid_rogue Barry Manilow Yesterday

It's brand new so it's kind of jank. Still, quite a lot of fun.

Generating story...

You are Acid, a rogue living in the kingdom of Larion. You have a long steel dagger and a length of rope. You walk down the city street looking for somehwere to steal from. You look around and see nothing interesting. You think about going back home but you're not sure if you should. There is no point in staying here

go to the tavern

You decide that it would be better to stay at the tavern. It's a place where people gather and talk. You can get information on what's going on by eavesdropping on conversations. The tavern owner has already seen your face and knows who you are

look around

You walk around the tavern looking for something to steal. You find a table with a bottle of wine on it. You sit down and start drinking. Suddenly you hear someone talking behind you. You turn around and see a man wearing a hooded cloak

look

The man is holding a knife to your throat. He tells you to tell him who you are or he will kill you. You don't know why he wants this information but he seems very determined

"I am Piss!"

The man looks surprised and says

"****? That's not right. I thought you were a girl". You reply

"I'm a girl, but I'm not a ! I'm an acid thief!" The man laughs and says "Oh really? Well then you're lucky because I've got some acid here". He takes out a vial from his pocket and pours some liquid into a glass

drink glass

You take a sip of the liquid and feel its warmth on your tongue. It tastes strange and you quickly swallow the liquid. The man notices your reaction and smiles

piss on man

You run back to the door and throw the glass on the ground. You run back to the door and throw the glass on the ground. You run back to the door and throw the glass on the ground. You run back to the door and throw the glass on the ground

go to bartender

You run to the bar and grab the bartender. He doesn't seem too happy about being robbed. He tries to defend himself but you overpower him easily. You put the barrel of the gun against his head and pull the trigger. You run back to the door and throw the glass on the ground

look for money

You look around for any money that might help you get home. You manage to find some coins in the pockets of a nearby beggar. You spend them all on beer and food. You finish up with a few more coins left over

piss on bar

You leave the bar and go back to your room. You notice that the coin purse is gone. You think you must have dropped it when you ran away. You go back to the bar and ask if they found anything

look for coin purse

You search the bar and find nothing. You go back to your room and check the coin purse again. This time you find some gold coins inside. You spend the coins on beer and food

"Gentlemen! I've come to say the n-word!"

The men laugh and call you a and a hole. They give you a couple of coins as thanks for your trouble. You thank them and leave the tavernYou return to the tavern and try to explain yourself to the owner. He doesn't seem too interested in hearing what happened

look for black man

You look for a black man in the city. You find one walking through the streets. He asks you how you are doing and you tell him you are fine. He offers to buy you a drink. You accept and he hands you a flask of alcohol

piss on black man

You go back to the bar and ask the bartender if there is anyone else waiting for a drink. He tells you that there is another customer just now. You follow him outside and he leads you to a small alleyway. You enter the alley and wait for the man to arrive

piss in alley

You wait patiently for the man to arrive. When he does, you pour the contents of the flask into the alley. You wait patiently for the man to arrive. When he does, you pour the contents of the flask into the alley. You wait patiently for the man to arrive

"What now, nigger?"

The man turns around and sees you and his eyes widen. He runs back to his house and locks the door. You sigh and continue to wait

lockpick door

You lockpick the door and open it. Inside you find a man in a robe. He stares at you and says "Who are you?". You reply "I'm a friend of yours". He nods and says

"Good, let me introduce myself" and walks off. You lockpick the door and open it. Inside you find a man in a robe. He stares at you and says "Who are you?", you reply "I'm a friend of yours"

and he nods and says "Good, let me introduce myself" and walks off. You lockpick the door and open it. Inside you find a man in a robe. He stares at you and says

tie man up with Rope

You find a rope lying on the floor and tie the man up. You then walk back to the bar and order a drink. After taking a drink you begin to wonder why you are still tied up. You remember that the man was trying to rob you so you decide to free yourself

order a glass of piss

You order a glass of **** and watch as it begins to burn your throat. You cough up blood and vomit the liquid onto the floor. You look around and see a large bag containing several bottles of alcohol. You pick up one of the bottles and take a swig you find a note

read note

You read the note:

Hey you, I heard you stole something from my shop. I'll be glad to pay you double for it. Here's the address:

P.O

piss on note

You **** on the note and then toss it in the garbage disposal

"Make Larion great again!"

and leave the barYou return to the bar and ask the bartender where the man lives. He tells you that he lives in a nice house by the river. You walk towards the house and find a locked gate. You climb the gate and unlock it and enter the house

look

You find a woman sitting in her bed. She looks like she has been crying. She tells you that her husband died in a car crash and she needs money for funeral expenses...you can't find a job

piss inside woman's mouth

You puke in her mouth. You puke in her mouth. You puke in her mouth. You puke in her mouth. You puke in her mouth. You puke in her mouth. You puke in her mouth. You puke in her mouth

give woman money for her services

You go to the bathroom. The toilet is unlocked. A man named Steve approaches you and says(The man looks a look

You give money to Steve. You pee on the floor Kill Steve

You kill Steve. You kill Steve. You kill Steve. You kill Steve. You kill Steve. You kill Steve. You kill Steve. You kill Steve. You kill Steve. You kill Steve go to woman Woops that action caused the model to start looping. Try a different action to prevent that. leave house

You head home. You wash your face. Your hair. Your body. Your teeth. Your ****. Your balls. Your balls. Your. Your. Your. Your go to sleep

You wake up. You eat breakfast. You lunch. You dinner.

It Go to city hall

You find a lawyer. A judge. A priest. A doctor. You go to the police station talk to police

You talk to a detective. You talk to a prosecutor. You talk to a judge. You talk to a priest. You talk to a doctor. You talk to a lawyer "White lives matter too!"

You get arrested and taken to jail. You spend the night in solitary confinement. You are released the next day and walk out of jail. You walk home and tell your family what happened. They are very upset. You explain that you were framed

"The niggers have taken over the police!"

You start getting threats and insults. You call the cops. They arrest you and you spend the rest of the week in jail. You are released the following Monday morning and walk out of jail. You are found dead the next day after. You die in your cell.Your family is devastated YOU DIED. GAME OVER

1

Sayfalnabi Yesterday

This is how Skynet wins.

1

possible_wait Yesterday

I wanted to share a part of my journey (because of the liberties the game takes with my input, which is worth showing). At this point I decided to try to end the run to try another, but things went awry. I am but a poor peasant in King Henrik's village.

You say "Please, sit down and I shall show you the way to the king's palace." Henrik nods and sits down beside you.

spit in the king's face

You say "I don't speak your language, but I will try to learn it, if that is alright with you." Henrik nods and says, "Very well, spit in my face." You quickly move your tongue and spit into the king's mouth.
You say "Thank you for showing me the way, my lord. May I beg for one thing in return?" Henrik stares at you for a moment and then speaks, "May I ask why you wish to visit the king?"

"I wish to kill the king and take the thrown for myself!"

Henrik smiles and says, "Hmm, interesting. Very well, you may enter the king's chambers."
You enter the king's chambers and find yourself in a large room filled with bookshelves and tables. A few guards stand nearby watching you.

spit in the guard's faces

You sputter and spit in the guard's faces. You then walk out of the room and follow Henrik back to the village.
You walk through the village and see several other peasants doing the same thing you did. You see several children playing and laughing. You wonder where the fuck you are and what the fuck you're supposed to do.

spit on the children

You spit on the children and laugh. You feel sick and disgusted. You walk away from the village and follow Henrik back to the village. You say, "My Lord Henrik can you please do me the honor of spitting in my face?" Henrik nods and says "Of course, my lord." You walk through the village and find several other peasants doing the same thing you did.

take henrik's sword

You grab the sword and swing it at the nearest child. The blade slices through flesh and bone. Blood pours out of the child's body as you pull the sword free. You run forward and stab the child in the throat. You pull the sword out and throw it aside.

spit on the sword

You walk past the corpses of the children and continue to the next corpse. You spit on the sword and walk forward. You drop the sword and run forward. You plunge the sword into the chest of another child.

stop attacking children

You stop attacking children and instead attack a group of soldiers. You rip off their helmets and hack them apart. You then proceed to kill all of them. You look over to Henrik and he smiles at you. You nod and continue killing. (ask henrik to join)
You ask Henrik to join in the slaughter. He grins and says "Sure, my lord." You grin and begin to slaughter the soldiers. You slice open the stomachs of some and tear out their intestines. You eat the entrails of others.

eat a salad

You finish eating a salad and realize you've eaten enough. You look up at Henrik and he smiles at you. You smile back and continue killing.

"Henrik why are we killing and eating all these people?"

Henrik asks "We're not, my lord. We're just trying to get stronger. If we keep this pace up, we'll be able to wipe out the entire population of the village within a year or two."

(Postscript: After I admonished Henrik for stabbing with an axe, we dueled, I made a necklace from his eyeballs, spit in them, and then ran into the forest, curled up into a ball, kept a vigilant eye for wizards to no avail, and found myself waking up still asleep to a bunch of dead villagers. When I asked who killed them, the voice in my head told me it was a wizard. Then I went back to my bed and woke up dead.)

1

possible_wait Yesterday

I had a reason to put this up here in SotS and wanted to bridge this better for discussion in a follow-up. There was a real sense of being hit by the spectacle for me, and I feel often entrenched as is. I played Zork when I was a kid - the prompt responses were more practical - you would get a description, maybe feedback about an action and your ability to substantiate it. While hard to define a boundary practically, the lengths that AI Dungeon interpreted _me_ as the player (or what I allowed it to by continuing) left me with some real awe. I think of rolling dice for probability - but here you're not just rolling dice, the dice suggest to you why you got into the business of rolling in the first place. This is probably more a comment on the nuance or ability of the AI and the project or a broader comment on AI engagement (or just literature?), but let's look at this event, "Grabbing Henrik's Sword". My intent was to up the stakes. No one cared about my spitting, and I thought that was absurdly rude of myself, but it only seemed to help me and my stakes in the narrative. I did not want to cause violence like a buffoon so I upped the stake by snatching at the King's sword to see what the story-teller would suggest. The story suggested I was going to attack the children; when I resisted it double-downed. Where is the offset in this dynamic now, between me and this story-teller, when my own story is distorted to these lengths? These are machine reflections - what is left to reflect me, all that is left in darkness, and my choices? Other mediums - like video - don't suggest we can interact. It just tells us how it is (and we interact anyway in other ways). But an interactive story teller here, like human discourse, has the power to suggest who we are to ourselves, in the same way that we can respond to those suggestions as human beings. We reflect ourselves and our identity by taking the action of giving feedback - to deny or accept the world as it is around us and act to change it. But this is sort of talking to a half-awake jailer while we rot in a cell; someone who has no reason to listen to us beyond trying to stake awake, yet we depend on them for our sustenance of simulation. Sure this is nothing new with that ol’ rascal spectacle. But what power have we given this narrative automaton in how it reflects us as its own character? How does it invite us in to let us suggest who we are? When I grabbed that sword, I wanted to test Henrik’s meddle. Instead, the story decided that I was a maniac. Is this our human sensibility, bare and ready to be inspected, the distance of feedback? I'm scared because, in a way it denies me my own world, in some way beyond other media - it grew a garden to tell me what it said I was actually doing. I realized that in the maw of the absurdity, I had the freedom to legitimize whatever it reflected - I was already in the story, I wanted to know what happened next anyway. It leaves me with a sort of categorical distaste, a fear and excitement of engaging with a story out of my control. In the back of my mind I hesitate to go again: What game is actually being played here?

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papersheepdog Guild Master Yesterday

[Careful with this one](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/028/186/spidey.jpg)

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NOSPACESALLCAPS Guild Master Yesterday

Dude wtf this is awesome. I wonder what data set it was trained on... I teleported dimensions as a command and it remembers several commands later that I did so, and that I took a captive with me. I looked within as a command and it had me see a light and talk to God, who proceeded to order me to kill everyone in sight.

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Impassionata Ungnostic Battlemage Yesterday

Super trippy and excellent.

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1

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Thank you for posting to /r/Games. Unfortunately, we have removed this submission per Rule 6.6.

No direct links to web games - This includes flash games and other sites that let you play games directly from your browser as well as links to download free games. Try /r/WebGames, /r/FlashGames or /r/BrowserGames.

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1

Kuzkuladaemon PC 1 day ago

I am so in love with this. Holy shit. Thank you so much.

3

starskublue 1 day ago

Thank you!

2

Kuzkuladaemon PC 1 day ago

It keeps "hanging" on stuff. Spent 5 or so minutes waiting to talk to some villagers.

1

starskublue 1 day ago

Sometimes Google colab struggles and you have to restart it. Not much I can do about it.

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Kuzkuladaemon PC 1 day ago

I'm not terribly worried. I know it's not a fully polished delicious piece of work. It's a beginning delicious piece of work.

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starskublue 1 day ago

A sample from the game:

"I am a goblin!" you say proudly. "And I'm glad to be one". "Well then, congratulations," says the orc captain. "We'll let you live". You nod and walk away from the camp.

ask if you can join the orc band

The orcs don't want to fight anymore so they're looking for someone to help them out in their new endeavors. They offer you a chance to join up with them as a drummer. It would allow you to play music while helping out around camp.

tell them we should start a musical troupe

They look at you skeptically but agree to give you a try. You tell them about your plans to create a musical troupe and how you plan on using the orcs to help you out.

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Alldaybagpipes PlayStation 1 day ago

Goblin bards are the worst! Sounds fun!

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qznc_bot2 1 day ago

There is a discussion on Hacker News, but feel free to comment here as well.

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POKIMANsss Yesterday

MY BRAIN

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SeeYouSpaceCowboy--- Yesterday

Should've typed in 4011

1

Blockhead47 Yesterday

What a waste of money.
Now, the photo of the potato that went for a $1.08 million was real art. Worth every penny.

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kenmlin Yesterday

But banana will turn brown and rot in few days.

1

thegreatgazoo Yesterday

I would hope that would include a supply of fresh bananas for a while.

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checker280 Yesterday

Wow. I saw this elsewhere without the explanation and didn’t realize it was for real.

Also wealth on this scale shouldn’t exist. That someone could spend this much on a whim shouldn’t exist.

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someITguy39 Yesterday

What i find most hilarious is not the price tag but the fact the artist spent a year contemplating bananas and trying different materials until he settled on a random real banana he picked up at a publix somewhere. Lol

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checker280 Yesterday

Worse still, he sold two more.

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kenmlin Yesterday

And he can make dozens more per hour.

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checker280 Yesterday

Dozens? Proper placement doesn’t happen by accident. And bananas doesn’t just grow on trees

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eightdx 1 day ago

This is the same guy behind the solid gold toilet, btw

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Phaedrus_Lebowski 1 day ago

Artist : Michael Bluth. #theresALWAYSmoneyINtheBANNANAstand

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Salohacin 1 day ago

How does one evaluate how much a piece of ~~crap~~ art is worth?

Why stop at 120 grand? Why not stick another banana next to it and call it a quarter of a million?

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kilobitch 1 day ago

“How much can a banana cost, Michael? $120,000?”

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MatthewofHouseGray 1 day ago

I always thought random paint splatters were the lowest point "mordern art" could reach.

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SueZbell 1 day ago

Hang it up, wait a few months and much of it will be even much lower -- on the floor.

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barndin 2 days ago

That banana would have literally saved a starving person's life today. The $120K wouldn't have hurt, either. Point being, if you have $120K to spend on a banana, I sure as fuck hope you're doing some good in the world, too. I'd like to think the person who bought this also donated $1M to fight hunger and homelessness. And I hope the "artist" who was paid for this is either hit by a train, or donates their proceeds.

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1-800-fuck-0ff 1 day ago

2 words: Money laundering

5

Brigadius 2 days ago

Ikea will sell it for $99k but you have to assemble it yourself.

3

Mist_Rising 2 days ago

I can sell you 50 of these for 60k usd cash only. Backlot behind the studio. Come alone.

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asoiafwot 2 days ago

Quick, someone get the best work from r/breadstapledtotrees and see how much that's worth!

4

khan9813 2 days ago

Well I’ll be damned... that a real sub

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MagesticLlama1 2 days ago

Money laundering more like it

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Vusstar 2 days ago

I sell the same piece for 6 euros, i'll even make it your own house.

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drdavidchi 2 days ago

Is it fair trade tho?

3

REparsed 2 days ago

I purposely seek out non-free fruit for my works to bring focus to the oppression of the workers.

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KaiserReaper 2 days ago

Its like their not even trying to hide the laundering aspect of modern "art" anymore.

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mUNGOjERRYsDOg 2 days ago

I’m just mad that I never run into these idiots willing to spend $120,000 on a piece of fruit taped to the wall.

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TaiGlobal 2 days ago

Get involved in a criminal enterprise and help someone launder some money.

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K0kichiOuma 2 days ago

Oh boy! my favorite piece of art cheap fruit with cheap duct tape. This will go well in the trash where the rest of the overpriced artwork I bought have gone.

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AndrewSilverman1 1 day ago

I wonder if I can sell my spit inside a plastic bag for $500,000 at the museum?

2

burlybuhda 2 days ago

I have an apple stapled to a door for sale...

1

NotTheOnionBot robot overlord 2 days ago

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GeneralLemarc 2 days ago

Still better art than Soviet Realism.

1

mavman97 2 days ago

Money laundering.

2

WolfDoc 2 days ago

Has to be

1

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BN_Boi 12 hs ago

America, land of the free

LUL

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drumboy256 Gold | QC: ARK 45, CC 20 Yesterday

It was all a gift Mr. IRS.

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amoebanomaly Platinum | QC: ETH 114, CC 39 | LINK 11 | TraderSu Yesterday

The only satisfaction I have as far as paying taxes on crypto goes is I bought a lot of FUCK token in 2017 that I will be using for tax loss harvesting the next few years at least

1

Khrimz000 Yesterday

Time to start buying bitcoin with amazon gift cards again.

Been a long time, but ive actually got a spare ledger that i havent used at all since buying.

The thing is..coinbase has EVERYTHING.

This is why localbtcoins was so great....i dont think its a thing any more in the USA.

I wonder why...

4

PeakLL Silver | QC: CC 33 Yesterday

why is it saying that its a new tax form when the exact same shit was on last years tax form except that question

are crypto owners really this dumb?

0

tinyursa Tin Yesterday

they need ad views right now tho for this shills website

0

cm18 Platinum | QC: BCH 440, BTC 43, CC 20 | r/Technolo Yesterday

The point is that they're trying to track who has crypto this tax cycle.

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Sargos Platinum | QC: CC 149, ETH 94, ADA 52 | r/Android Yesterday

Unless you didn't pay your taxes on your crypto and are now a tax evader in the eyes of the law then they already know if you own crypto or not.

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cm18 Platinum | QC: BCH 440, BTC 43, CC 20 | r/Technolo Yesterday

Having crypto and not reporting it is not tax evasion. Having a net positive crypto tax event and **intentionally** not reporting it is tax evasion. > then they already know if you own crypto or not. Interesting statement. Do you have inside information about the IRS capabilities? There are serious isssues with the IRS seeking to highlight who has crypto and who does not, as it endangers those who hold. Back in 2015, the IRS was hacked and information on 100 thousand people was leaked. While its not a big deal for common people who's wealth is tied up in things such as stocks and bank accounts that cannot be easily taken, the IRS fishing and gathering data on crypto users poses a security risk for those crypto holders as they can be kidnapped, or extorted for their holdings. Basically, crypto holders should oppose the IRS move to create a database of crypto holders, not because of closing potential tax evation, but rather because they've proven that they cannot secure personal data and privacy of crypto taxpayers.

5

brianddk Platinum | QC: BTC 531, Coinbase 102, CC 51 | Exch Yesterday

"At any time during 2019, did you receive, sell, send, exchange, or otherwise acquire any financial interest in any virtual currency?" [Yes/No]

OK... WTF... Are we going to start getting a wealth tax on HODLing in 2020? This is beyond messed up!

4

RedditSmurfMJ Tin 12 hs ago

Yea, why tax people that have a significant amount of wealth in assets? The whole cryptocurrency business was supposed to get me away from responsibilities!

0

cm18 Platinum | QC: BCH 440, BTC 43, CC 20 | r/Technolo Yesterday

The idea has been floated this year in the democratic primaries, and history has demonstrated gold confiscation in America on a prior occasion. Not enough people are pushing back on the idea so the idea is not that far off. My take, unless there's an actual revolt, its time to leave America.

0

scott-cryptotaxprep Redditor for 1 months. Yesterday

No way around it - answer yes if you've ever touched crypto. You're going to have a bad time if they catch you lying on this one.

2

charmquark8 Bronze 6 hs ago

Serious question:. Do you have to answer at all? What if you just skip the question - don't lie and say No, but don't affirm either.

1

cm18 Platinum | QC: BCH 440, BTC 43, CC 20 | r/Technolo Yesterday

If you HODL crypto and did not send or recieve this year, you can answer "no". What's interesting is, under what law do you HAVE to anser the question? If you sold crypto, then there's a tax event. But if you bought crypto, there not a tax event. So if you leave it blank, what are the consequences? Not answering is not a lie. Clearly, this is a fishing expedition, and I know of no new laws giving the IRS more power regarding crypto. I suspect that they're just trying to see how many people will answer the question. (Most people will.) EDIT: Another thought. What is the charge for lying on a tax return? If you're not trying to cheat, but actually just protecting your privacy, does the IRS have a case for falsifying a non-pertenent tax question? From what I understand, leaving out finantial information that does not cheat taxes "owed", or perhaps makes you overpay taxes, is not tax fraud.

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awsmbomb Silver | QC: CC 24 Yesterday

more like, the IRS knows about your cryptocurrency they just want to make sure you’re honest

8

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fr0ntsight 1 h ago

First crypto heist in space!

1

Send_me_ETH_plz 4 hs ago

Achieving low earth orbit is an integral step on the road to reaching the moon

2

Pickle086 8 hs ago

How is even possible to put cryptocurrency in a wallet ?

0

irilivibi 2 hs ago

Some wallets can contain multiple private keys, circumstance depending (to supplement u/jaceypenny) In Ethereum, private keys are random 256bit binary numbers, or in the more common translated form of a 64 digit hexidecimal number. This lets you sign transactions and spend Ether :) [Ethereum Keys](https://etherworld.co/2017/11/17/understanding-the-concept-of-private-key-public-key-and-address-in-ethereum-blockchain/)

1

Send_me_ETH_plz 4 hs ago

/s?

1

jaceypenny 4 hs ago

The wallet contains the private keys to an address possessing cryptocurrency

1

SusanForeman 7 hs ago

In non-crypto speak, your owned cryptocurrency is saved in a password-protected file, which is then stored either on your computer or on another storage device which you call a wallet. Lose the password (your key), lose access to your wallet. People who don't care too much usually keep their crypto on exchanges, which are easy websites that allow bank transfers between fiat (USD or GBP etc) to crypto, but their wallet/address (think user account) is potentially open to hacks on those exchanges. People who are serious about their crypto keep their money on the cryptocurrency's official client, and the passwords saved on an offline storage device like a USB, an external hard drive, or a piece of paper so no one can hack it. People who have obscene amounts of money and just want to send a message store their crypto wallets on space ships. The point of the article is to promote blockchain use, and apparently to incorporate it into the Nanorack commerical transaction platform. Nanorack is a company that develops space products and is tied to the CubeSat program.

1

ThredHead 8 hs ago

Seriously who cares? Have you seen his Cybertruck? 😂😂😂

0

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weepingguitars 3 hs ago

Out of those that don’t change hands on-chain many actually do within exchanges.

1

Hedy_L 13 hs ago

Now, hopes rest with institutional investors

Haven’t they always?

4

Ichabodblack 9 hs ago

Now, it's fine, once Bakkt lands the institutional investors will come flooding in. Oh... Wait, hang on....

4

Suicidal_Salad Yesterday

This is a lie. I bought in yesterday at 7640 and sold today at 7566. It's ez.

10

Cr3X1eUZ Yesterday

I couldn't figure out what the heck that picture was so I found this. It's a bus in Armenia they park in the street to advertise bitcoin. It has a flat tire, so I suspect it doesn't actually go anywhere.

https://twitter.com/bitentrepreneur/status/1183313616956809218

https://twitter.com/cryptalit/status/1172439405933428737

http://img03.platesmania.com/180329/o/11137785.jpg

https://scontent-bru2-1.cdninstagram.com/v/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/s750x750/33989981_2006856262966274_9022958022325960704_n.jpg?_nc_ht=scontent-bru2-1.cdninstagram.com&_nc_cat=102&oh=6852c947129e84cfc53fd6126344cb16&oe=5E757318&ig_cache_key=MTc5MTQ4ODc3OTQ5ODA0MTczNQ%3D%3D.2

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rockedbottom 10 hs ago

Is that Andreas Anotonopolous standing in front of the flat tire?

1

HopeFox Yesterday

What a perfect metaphor for Bitcoin.

11

devliegende Yesterday

the sobering reality that creating new global monetary standards requires more than computer code.

This guy must be trolling

11

Cryptojesusgodallah Yesterday

It’s all just back and forth wash trading

11

Egon_1 Bitcoin Enthusiast Yesterday

Something that hasn’t changed between then and now: virtually all of the bitcoin outstanding is held by a relatively small number of people.

It isn’t exactly clear how many of those wallets belong to exchanges, but that doesn’t change the bottom line that the vast majority of bitcoin is controlled by relatively few players.

4

NJD21 Yesterday

This is true for any asset. Market makers (i.e. Whales) do the heavy lifting during price movements. The inevitable result of capitalism.

3

vulgar_denomination Redditor for less than 2 weeks Yesterday

>virtually all of the bitcoin outstanding is held by a relatively small number of people >that the vast majority of bitcoin is controlled by relatively few players. The distribution is [far better ](https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/top100cap-btc-bch.html) for Bitcoin than it is for bch. Also note that Bitcoin is trending down (better) and bch is trending up (bad).

0

phro 3 hs ago

Aren't the top 100 addresses usually exchanges?

1

userforlessthan2mins Redditor for less than 60 days Yesterday

When I held btc, it was distributed across a hundred addresses for security and privacy. So I'm not sure addresses are a brilliant indicator of distribution...I guess back to the drawing board for you to develop counter argument.

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Obscure_Buffalo Redditor for less than 6 months 12 hs ago

/u/cryptochecker

1

cryptochecker 12 hs ago

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0

vulgar_denomination Redditor for less than 2 weeks Yesterday

>When I held btc, it was distributed across a hundred addresses for security and privacy Honestly, I'm doubting that you had a hundred different UTXOS. That would be a nightmare to maintain. And they would have to be different separate accounts, paper wallets or have their own seed to provide you with better security. Again, I'm doubting that claim. Also, you'd lose any privacy if you spent more than a single UTXO at the same place.. >So I'm not sure addresses are a brilliant indicator of distribution I agree. It's not brilliant but reasonable. Do you suggest a better metric? >I guess back to the drawing board for you to develop counter argument. Why? This was the OP's claim. Go debate him.

0

EpsteinKiler_Epstein New Redditor 6 hs ago

100 addresses isn't that hard to maintain if you have a hardware wallet. The rest of the post, however, is pretty shit.

3

PM_ME_UFOS Yesterday

Whoa whoa whoa. You're saying "hodl your way to adoption" doesn't work?!?!

But it's a flawless plan!!!!1111

Buy in the far past
Do absolutely nothing for years. This part is critical.
Massive profit

How can this plan fail?!?!

37

alucard291 11 hs ago

You're forgetting something something game theory. In 20 years when there are no more butts all the people will suddenly want butts because they missed out on all the stress and anger and pain and loss and will suddenly decide "I'll 'ave me some of that now"... Obviously butts will be super valuable then and these people who did nothing for 20 years will be kings of the world. It stands to reason doesn't it....

8

thehoesmaketheman 4 hs ago

Hey you never admitted to being wrong about credit scores. You can go ahead and say that at anytime now. Not a big deal. Just go ahead.

0

alucard291 4 hs ago

Oh hun you're so desperate for attention. Keep trying! But as I said, there's a correlation. That's enough for\* me. So yeah, you're wrong. I'm right. Ciao P.s. lets not forget that you went very quiet about jobs doing credit checks. In this here country, your utility bills will also depend on your credit rating, your ability to actually rent (you think you can triple deposit past a letting agent here? You're funny kiddo) Same goes for your car insurance, your home insurance. And of course our favourite form of personal liquidity management (here) the 0% credit cards - suddenly become unavailable. Funny how I don't see you admitting you were wrong and just deflecting <3 So yeah, I'll wait

1

thehoesmaketheman 3 hs ago

Bahaha you said noone making a high income has bad credit. Yes they do and in similar proportions to other incomes. That's literally what the study concludes. Secondly, you are claiming that it's impossible to live in your society with just money. Let me bring my salary over to your country and all my cash, and I'll be living where I want, I'll have utilities, I'll have car insurance and all that with a cherry on top. And I'd get a swanky job too. Are you telling me if I gave you a million dollars but set your credit score to 200, you couldn't get an apartment, utilities, or car insurance? Do you really think that?

0

alucard291 3 hs ago

>Bahaha you said noone making a high income has bad credit Literally never said that. Even pointed out that there are exceptions that prove the role. But in your insane rage you skimmed over that. >Secondly, you are claiming that it's impossible to live in your society with just money Nope never said that either. >Are you telling me if I gave you a million dollars but set your credit score to 200, you couldn't get an apartment, utilities, or car insurance? No and your credit rating wouldn't stay 200 for any length of time anyway. That's the whole point. You'd be forced to pay off your debts or would be forced to pay through the teeth for the said apartment car whatever. Are you like 16 that you don't understand such simple concepts? So as I asked many times before, have you considered professional help? I'm sure I can help you find a good shrink of you were to ask like an adult. Still waiting for you to apologise, and act like an adult for once. And yeah you're going into block for a couple of months now. Sorry but you're just too unhinged for my liking. Can't be sure you won't buy a plane ticket and try to come murder me here lol.

1

thehoesmaketheman 3 hs ago

You did say that. But bad credit scores are similar across all incomes. You're wrong. Why wouldn't your credit stay low? If you have a shit load of missed payments and bad debt that shit doesn't clear for 7 years, even if you pay it back. Do you even know how credit works? And you admit you could live on money easily. So you lied earlier.

1

CryptoBags2103 13 hs ago

Somehow this is supposed to be the new global world currency. A bunch of cultists buy some magical numbers earlier than everyone else, manage not to lose them, and become the new world order. Amazing!

11

peakchain Yesterday

Currently, only about 8.5% of all bitcoin wallets—the online accounts used to store bitcoin—hold 99% of all the bitcoin in circulation. That is little changed from 6% in mid-2017.

— "If Bitcoin Looks Like It Isn’t Trading, It’s Because It Isn’t". Vigna, Paul. http://archive.is/pjKoB

15

Cthulhooo Yesterday

0.53% of addresses control over 86% as of now. 0.06% control over 60%. Currency of da futur guys, just buy in and enrich the whales.

7

peakchain 5 hs ago

It'S tHe InEvItAbLe ReSuLt Of CaPiTaLiSm

1

CryptoBags2103 13 hs ago

Not much different than fiat but the ones in charge of real wealth are never going to give it up to these plebs who bought into the worlds biggest pyramid scheme.

0

Ichabodblack 9 hs ago

>are never going to give it up to these plebs who bought into the worlds biggest pyramid scheme. You mean crypto holders?

4

CryptoBags2103 5 hs ago

Yes, not sure why I'm getting downvoted though lol

3

greengenerosity 4 hs ago

I think it is because people don't comprehend what you are actually are trying to get across. You are saying that Bitcoin has wealth inequality, and the real world has wealth inequality. But Bitcoin, unlike the real world, is just a pyramid scheme that dummies fall for which only benefits the biggest Bitcoin whales. There is no way that regular people playing a pyramid/ponzi game will every become the new top wealth holders in the world. That would require that the current biggest biggest wealth holders in the world went all-in on Bitcoin - which they would never do.

3

Crypto_To_The_Core Yesterday

Darn, "?mod=..." trick no longer works.

6

SnapshillBot Yesterday

I have 135 btc on gox. Lets se how it turns out.

Snapshots:

If Bitcoin Looks Like It Isn’t Trad... - archive.org, archive.today

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merreborn sold me bad acid Yesterday

oh sweet the archive.today link doesn't have the paywall

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Crypto_To_The_Core Yesterday

SFYG

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Numaga1 Yesterday

This reddit is seriously toxic. Filled with a bunch of a-holes carrying the decentralized flag and shitting on anything that doesn't fit in their ideology.

Thanks for reminding me not to come here again.

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gubertinus Silver | QC: CC 182 | VET 305 Yesterday

Perfect. No matter what happens, they will always complain while holding their crypto team flags. It probably got worse now considering how this place is administrated, content now here is extremely low quality. No wonder they want to shit on something like this.

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Numaga1 Yesterday

Haha yeah, that's another way to look at it.

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alluva Yesterday

Well done by the team. VeChain has received flak in the past, but it is genuinely attempting to build something worthwhile.

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 1 day ago

Claiming to be decentralized and actually being decentralized are two very different things.

Let VET holders directly vote for nodes or it can never be decentralized. There is no reason for a middleman in this technology, its existence is an attempt at maintaining centralized control. And an election only every two years? Jfc.

"Proof of Authority" where noderunners are "staking their reputation" yet do not need to disclose their identities is absurd and offers no security. "Identities have been verified by the Foundation" is not trustless, it can't even show you that independent node runners exist in the first place.

Vechain has work to do if they want to claim to be a decentralized or even a public blockchain. It is simply not designed in line with those definitions.

EDIT: Warning for those who venture lower, for it is filled with VET-powered vote manipulation and the inability to answer simple questions.

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vindatissue 3 - 4 years account age. 200 - 400 comment karma. Yesterday

the thing is the purpose of blockchain is to trustless transaction and its not about decentralization. decentralize could be one of the ways to achieve trustless, but it is not the only way nor necessary the best way. besides, i dont see pure decentralization can actually push for mass adoption nor that it actually exists. contol by small group of ppl exits in any kind of consenses no matter if it is decentralize or centralize.

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

> trustless transaction There are no trustless transactions when one entity controls the blockchain. This is exactly what is meant by political centralization.

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vindatissue 3 - 4 years account age. 200 - 400 comment karma. 7 hs ago

my point is any concensus can be contolled by some body, just that it is either known or unknown. this utopia of total equality that ppl think of does not exist in the long run since it will not function properly.

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ohredditplease Silver | QC: CC 103 | VET 1740 Yesterday

This is the naive crypto idealism that stops adoption dead in its tracks.

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

It is naive to expect some semblance of political decentralization in an application scenario that can only carry value while decentralized? This is not idealism, it is reality. If you do not have decentralized consensus, using blockchain is simply a more inefficient version of distributed networking tech. The data stored within cannot be trusted any differently. What stops crypto dead in its tracks are those willing to sacrifice the core principle of blockchain while advertising as doing the opposite. You want a confederate chain, which can have unique value for private entities? Go for it, but it is not a public blockchain nor valuable to anyone else other than those actors that maintain control.

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MaximeFurieux Redditor for 1 months. Yesterday

Think about it like this. Communism vs capitalism. Lean too far into communism and millions die. Go too far with capitalism, and the wealthy have all the power. VeChain is merely the centrist solution in a sea of projects that lean too far in either direction.

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

It's not a centrist solution, it is a centralized solution masquerading as a partially decentralized solution.

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MaximeFurieux Redditor for 1 months. Yesterday

You are completely allowed to have that opinion, but I recommend looking into vechain further when you have the time, to help educate that opinion

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

How is it an opinion? Every blockchain today is relatively politically centralized. The various distributed networks using PoW have around 3-4 entities in control, and delegated ones including EOS, Tron, Neo, and Vechain all have a single entity in majority control. Before anyone has the right to claim decentralization, they need to be able to prove it. My problem is not with the state of Vechain, it has its own priorities, my problem is with the misleading claims that trick people into thinking it is decentralized when it is clearly not.

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MaximeFurieux Redditor for 1 months. Yesterday

>comparing VeChain to tron, eos, and neo I’ll admit I know little of how trx works but I know that trying to compare the super centralized chains that are EOS and NEO, to VeChain, just makes you look like you don’t understand the differences between the 3 >trick people into thinking it’s decentralized Not sure where you got this idea, the whole thing that makes vechain numba one is being the centrist solution in the market, the “perfect blend”

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

> I’ll admit I know little of how trx works but I know that trying to compare the super centralized chains that are EOS and NEO, to VeChain, just makes you look like you don’t understand the differences between the 3 EOS, Neo, Vechain. All operated by single entities. For EOS, the EOS whales/BP cartels (primarily Block.One and their partners). For Neo, the Neo Foundation. For VET, the Vechain Foundation. > Not sure where you got this idea, the whole thing that makes vechain numba one is being the centrist solution in the market, the “perfect blend” Politically centralized with arbitrary architectural decentralization is not a perfect blend. It is just a centralized, distributed network, which like EOS wants to convince the market that it is actually decentralized. They aren't, sorry. Brush up on your understanding of control over block production and you will better understand the difference between political and architectural decentralization. Edit: Back to just downvoting eh? The Vechain way, you should try tokenize them. Gonna leave you here, enjoy the rest of your day.

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ohredditplease Silver | QC: CC 103 | VET 1740 Yesterday

How can you make claims about Vechain when you don't know Vechain? Please be concrete and explain how Vechain's governance model is completely centralized.

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MaximeFurieux Redditor for 1 months. Yesterday

Well, as I’ve said before, you are completely allowed to have your opinion on the matter :) I would read up on vechain when you have the time

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ohredditplease Silver | QC: CC 103 | VET 1740 Yesterday

Things are not that black and white in the real world. Vechain is striking the balance between decentralization and centralization, because either one by itself has its drawbacks. You as an investor do not decide what can be trusted, nor are you the masses that adopt. You speak of nodes, confederate chains, distributed networking tech. The masses do not even know what that all means nor should they have to know. Trust does not work like that. You are so focused on these things, on the investor or idealist viewpoint that you are out of touch with real world adoption.

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

> Vechain is striking the balance between decentralization and centralization, because either one by itself has its drawbacks. This is the line you have been fed for a while, but it only rings true architecturally. Yes, 101 nodes is a "balance" between decentralization and centralization it terms of node distribution, but in terms of political decentralization it is fully centralized. They could resolve this easily by allowing VET holders to directly vote for nodes. The only reason not to is to maintain control. > The masses do not even know what that all means nor should they have to know. So you expect the masses to spend their money for tokens on a blockchain that is completely under the political control of a third party? The masses should absolutely know the difference, and predatory, misleading attempts at fooling them should be pointed out for what they are. No political decentralization, no protection for your assets.

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MaximeFurieux Redditor for 1 months. Yesterday

> So you expect the masses to spend their money for tokens on a blockchain that is completely under the political control of a third party? Well, don’t people already do this when they buy bitcoin or Ethereum?

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

> Well, don’t people already do this when they buy bitcoin or Ethereum? Not quite, there are at least 3-4 entities to go through before majority political control is established on those networks. PoW is by no means good, but it is evidently better than PoA for this purpose.

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MaximeFurieux Redditor for 1 months. Yesterday

So going through 3-4 Chinese-owned entities is better than going through 101 entities that are located globally and have no incentives to collude with each other?

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

> through 101 entities that are located globally and have no incentives to collude with each other? Why are you comparing architectural decentralization to political decentralization? Are you not understanding the difference or trying to be intentionally misleading? Vechain has an architectural decentralization (claimed, not proven) of 101 nodes. Ethereum has an architectural decentralization of **thousands** of nodes. Politically, Ethereum is controlled by 3-4 mining pools. Vechain is controlled by Vechain Foundation, 1 entity, by proxy of 1 handpicked committee (also not verifiable). No, 3-4 is not good. Yes, 3-4 is better than 1.

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MaximeFurieux Redditor for 1 months. Yesterday

Call me crazy but I’m going to trust the foundation that I vote in the members of, over trusting some centralized blockchain where 3-4 mining pools ran by the same people in the end have all the power.

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ohredditplease Silver | QC: CC 103 | VET 1740 Yesterday

>This is the line you have been fed for a while, but it only rings true architecturally. Yes, 101 nodes is a "balance" between decentralization and centralization it terms of node distribution, but in terms of political decentralization it is fully centralized. They could resolve this easily by allowing VET holders to directly vote for nodes. The only reason not to is to maintain control. You expect large enterprises to become an AN while accepting they can be randomly, regularly voted out of it. Fantasy. How do random VET holders judge the AN requirements? They can't. What you are suggesting is about as wide open for abuse as possible. And why? Because as an investor, you are an idealist. You want the trust to be about you, but it's not. You are not the end user of Vechain. >So you expect the masses to spend their money for tokens on a blockchain that is completely under the political control of a third party? The masses are not investors. This is not bitcoin or nano. Different use case.

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

> You expect large enterprises to become an AN while accepting they can be randomly, regularly voted out of it. Fantasy. How do random VET holders judge the AN requirements? They can't. What you are suggesting is about as wide open for abuse as possible. The opposite really, but it is amusing to see that you have managed to convince yourself that centralized control is the answer. Well, best of luck with that I suppose. Surely you shouldn't be surprised when people call out BS "decentralization" marketing for what it is, if you are going to go ahead and confirm it in your own words? > You are not the end user of Vechain. Pray tell who will use it, much less who will pay for it?

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ohredditplease Silver | QC: CC 103 | VET 1740 Yesterday

It is already the most used public enterprise blockchain.

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

> It is already the most used public enterprise blockchain. So no answer then? It doesn't even have a proper block explorer, how do you plan on validating that claim? Also even if you look on the only available explorer, [VeChain Insight](https://insight.vecha.in/#/main/), you will see that most blocks are empty or have 1-2 transactions. That's far, far lower than Ethereum. Whoever is trying to tell you otherwise is lying to you.

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MaximeFurieux Redditor for 1 months. Yesterday

> So no answer then? It doesn't even have a proper block explorer, how do you plan on validating that claim? It took longer for you to type this, then it did for me to find the multiple existing VeChainThor block explorers out there. Let’s not forget that there are also private block explorers that companies have built for themselves, like Deloitte’s loki. Remember kids. Always dyor.

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ohredditplease Silver | QC: CC 103 | VET 1740 Yesterday

There are various block explorers, but recently the most popular one, by a third party, went down. Vechain is now also creating a new one. But for you could look at Vechainstats or Vexplorer.io. The usage isn't all that consistent but usually a couple hundred thousand. Ethereum is not an enterprise blockchain, and almost none of it's transactions are from enterprises or real, paid usage. On Vechain they all are and you should be looking at clauses. One transaction can contain hundreds of clauses. These are not like ethereum clauses. Expected number of transactions next year is hundreds of millions. Who uses it. DNV GL, BYD, Walmart China, and 29 other enterprises you'd have to google.

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VanessaFrazee Redditor for less than 1 year 1 day ago

I'm either one of 7000 suckers, or I'm one of 7000 incredibly bright people with a lot of foresight. I hope its the second one.

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BoyScout22 Gold | QC: CC 32 | TraderSubs 12 1 day ago

what every retail vet holder should be asking themselves is this: why dnv gl and pwc are allowed to invest in vechain's for-profit company (VECHAIN GLOBAL TECHNOLOGY HOLDING LIMITED) while i am not, and why is dnv gl and pwc keeping secret the amount of shares they own in that company?

the first vote on vevote should be to compel dnv gl and pwc to come out publicly with the amount of money they have plowed into that company and how many shares they own!

how can retail vet investors be sure there isn't a conflict of interest if they can't know how dnv gl and pwc plan to profit off their investment in that offshore, unaudited company.

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BoyScout22 Gold | QC: CC 32 | TraderSubs 12 1 day ago

having a market for x nodes defeats the entire purpose of voting!!

without a proper audit by a reputable third party, vechain's so-called "voting," "financial executive reports", etc... don't mean squat.

how would retail vet holders be sure the foundation and their offshore for-profit companies are not skewing the votes in their financial interest with hundreds of purchased x nodes?

they have had months now to accumulate x nodes at dirt-cheap prices from underwater retail investor who paid tens of thousands of dollars pre-launch for their x nodes.

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ohredditplease Silver | QC: CC 103 | VET 1740 Yesterday

The Vechain foundation is not Vechain, and the foundation includes 2 of the big 4 auditors.

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BoyScout22 Gold | QC: CC 32 | TraderSubs 12 Yesterday

>The Vechain foundation is not Vechain that's right, and nobody knows where the vechain foundation ends and where these offshore companies begin. >and the foundation includes 2 of the big 4 auditors. if course it does, they are looking out for their financial interests, not the financial interest of the retail vet investors who can't even get an audit.

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pandacmh Silver | QC: CC 60 | VET 173 1 day ago

It's a public blockchain, you can audit all you want in the block explorer. Lol

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 1 day ago

Which explorer would that be? Last I checked the only explorer was taken offline? Is there another that allows the whole chain to be queried?

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Numaga1 Yesterday

More than one actually. But hey, you just need to throw your thin shit all over the place, and I'm going to let you. It reminds again me why I didn't visit this shitshow of a reddit much.

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MaximeFurieux Redditor for 1 months. Yesterday

Dude spent an hour’s worth of comments trying to share what he thinks vechain is, instead of just researching vechain

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

I know of Insight, but that does not show much information at all. There is also VeChain Stats, which is also not an explorer. It was an honest question, can you link said explorer? I have looked before but found nothing to replace Forge.

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pandacmh Silver | QC: CC 60 | VET 173 Yesterday

vechainstats.com has full explorer functionalities, as well as vexplorer.io

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

Vechainstats certainly does not have "full explorer functionalities." Compare it with any actual block explorer, like Etherscan. Vexplorer has most of the bases covered.

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Numaga1 Yesterday

Okay, my bad. Check https://visuals.veblocks.net/

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EdgeDLT Silver | QC: CC 139 | NEO 426 Yesterday

Am I missing something here? This is not a block explorer, it's just an activity monitor. A block explorer is something like Etherscan where you can actually look through blocks, search for transactions? You cannot validate anything without an explorer.

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SleepShadow Gold | QC: CC 112, XRP 20, ICX 15 | VET 9 Yesterday

https://www.vexplorer.io/ https://vechainstats.com/ https://insight.vecha.in/#/

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MaximeFurieux Redditor for 1 months. Yesterday

Don’t bother, he’ll just pretend those aren’t explorers, or that the ones that only have some explorer functions don’t link to the full explorers

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Kaner16 1 day ago

There hasn't been a mass sell off of x nodes. Yes, some have been sold but not enough to swing the voting power drastically in the event that your theory actually existed.

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BoyScout22 Gold | QC: CC 32 | TraderSubs 12 1 day ago

>There hasn't been a mass sell off of x nodes. actually quite a few have changed hands since the market began. >Yes, some have been sold but not enough to swing the voting power drastically in the event that your theory actually existed. they don't need lots of them. since they have a shitload of vet already, all they have to do is buy the lowest tier x node (vethor) which is in plentiful supply on the market, and upgrade those purchased vethors to mjolnir x (25x the voting power of the lowest vethor x) and swing the vote that way. simple! and now you know why they launched the market for x nodes without so much as a survey to existing x node holders who were promised exclusivity in pre-launch!

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SleepShadow Gold | QC: CC 112, XRP 20, ICX 15 | VET 9 1 day ago

85% still at original owner

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zfxpyro Silver | QC: CC 135 | VET 130 1 day ago

First you complain it's centralized, then when that changes to be more decentralized, you complain OMG people can just buy them up and have more control. So no different to any other blockchain. You can never win with some of you people. Btw everyone has the same chance to buy nodes, and there has actually been a drop off in node purchases over the past month, so you're theory doesn't really hold any weight.

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pandacmh Silver | QC: CC 60 | VET 173 1 day ago

Fudders don't understand decentralization. They claim they are against centralisation but it seems they prefer some form of communism or forced equal distribution (opposite of decentralization)

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gubertinus Silver | QC: CC 182 | VET 305 1 day ago

What do you mean? Thats exactly how every blockchain works. You spend more money, you get more voting power/mining power. Thats even how every company works. You spend more money in the company, you get more voting power. Pardon if im not using the right sentence but english is not my first language. Why would anyone spend money and effort in something to make a bad decision in the end? I dont think youre making much sense here. Edit: look.. > How would retail facebook stock holders be sure mark zuckerberg and his offshore for-profit companies are not skewing the votes in their financial interest with hundreds of purchased stocks?

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CryptoAllStar 1 day ago

Decentralization is the right way to go.

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gomezgregg1976 1 day ago

We are #vetfam #VeChain $vet we do not argue over petty stuff, we work it out as FAM would. Peace!!!

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yogibearnxs Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

Founded in 2017. GoChain started with an idea to fix the blockchain scaling problem while bringing an enterprise team and business philosophy to the space. We hit our goal by providing a public network that handles 100x the volume of Ethereum while remaining 100% Ethereum compatible.

We are partnered with AWS, IBM, and Microsoft and serve clients ranging from innovative, high impact startups to Fortune 200 companies like Dish Network and more.

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Romeolee Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

Ok so it also means that economy node will last forever.. the question is only how many VET will be allocated in the pool for economy node.

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SleepShadow Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

VeThor?

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ohredditplease Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

VET

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shooksx Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

Reading about VeVote for the first time here, VeChain has officially got my attention!

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bitcoincams Redditor for less than 1 year 2 days ago

As i understud authority nodes have 40% of voting weight? Is this little bit too much? With just few nodes and they already have 51%?

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vindatissue Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

total distribution of power is not good for an infant startup. if we want progress, equality should not be considered.

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SolomonGrundle Moderator 2 days ago

They only have 40% of the vote between them all not 51%. Authority nodes are the nodes that run the entire blockchain (the 101 block producers) and run the servers. I think it’s fair, they are keeping this whole show running

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bitcoincams Redditor for less than 1 year 1 day ago

My point is that less then 20% of supply have 80% of voting power. Looking from decentralization aspect, this whole power distribution makes us pretty much centralized.

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hungryforitalianfood Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

But VeChain was never claiming to be the most decentralized project. In my opinion, that’s one of the main draws to VeChain. It’s a lot more reality, and a lot less *screw big brother!*

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bitcoincams Redditor for less than 1 year 1 day ago

The title mentioned "decentralized governance" so all im saying is that this vote distribution is way far from decentralized governance. To me this looks something like: "You have the right to vote but at the end we will decide what is the best for you".

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hungryforitalianfood Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

I like how you left out the word *more*. That was super convenient for you. This is **more decentralized** than it was previously. You’re either playing dumb or you’re an idiot. Let me know which one so I know how to talk to you going forward.

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BiggusDickus- Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

The foundation and authority nodes have always had pretty much full control over VeChain, and they are never giving that up. At least they are transparent about it, and at least there is a degree of influence shared with the general community, but I am buying VeChain knowing full well that it is not a truly decentralized platform. The key is observing whether or not the foundation uses this arrangement to the advantage of the platform as a whole, and clearly this is the case. I am convinced that this governance model is the key reason why VeChain has so much real world adoption.

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Redditenmo Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

>My point is that less then 10% of supply have 80% of voting power Your figures seem off. According to Vechain Stats, Xnodes currently hold ~20.686.357.223 Vet, which is 23% of total supply & they hold 40% of the voting power.

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bitcoincams Redditor for less than 1 year 1 day ago

I didnt do the detailed math but from calculations in my head im almost sure the number is half of this number you wroted what means its just a little more from the 10% of supply. Its easy to do calculations to check the real numbers.

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Redditenmo Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

So you didn't do any math & you're refuting basic math based on numbers from Vechain stats? Ok then.

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bitcoincams Redditor for less than 1 year 1 day ago

Yes because i have rough numbers in my head, i might be wrong but im almost sure VET locked in X nodes are somewhere around 11-12 B

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Redditenmo Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

Soft locked is 11.7B, but the total holdings of Xnode' is currently 20.6B

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bitcoincams Redditor for less than 1 year 1 day ago

Yeah, i think this would be correct. The point is this 11.7 B gives them 40% of voting power. With 2.5 B VET locked in authority nodes which is additional 40% we have a situation where less then 20% of supply have 80% of voting power and more then 80% of supply can have maximum of 20% in voting power. All im saying is that they switch weight. Fair distribution would be 1% of supply is around 1% of voting weight.

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nwonline12 Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

I think you are overthinking things here. The vet amount is irrelevant. 40% of the power goes to AN’s which already is 101 different entities. Which are 99.99999999% chance that all 101 will not Collude. Even if you got them all to collude that is only 40%? And besides that what is the incentive for them to collude?

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SolomonGrundle Moderator 1 day ago

They only have 40% of the total weight, the rest have 60% in total. That’s a majority non-AN. They’re also the only KYC’d nodes, they invest the most in to the ecosystem in terms of finance as well as that being part of the terms of being an AN. To be an AN they have to play a role in actively bringing value to the network, be that through onboarding client networks as a company, building products and services on VeChain or expanding it in some way, as an ambassador or developer. VeChain never hid that this is a semi decentralised model. But the majority of vote power now lays with the token holders (60%) which is 100% more power than they had yesterday.

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zwarbo Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

Well put!

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StatFlow Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

How did you get 51% from 40%?

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bitcoincams Redditor for less than 1 year 2 days ago

If you add only 20% of X node votes + 10% of economic node votes you have 51% of voting weight meaning 80% of X node votes and 90% of economic votes would become irrelevant?!

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StatFlow Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

Where did the 20% and 10% numbers come from? I'm not sure I get where you're getting these

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bitcoincams Redditor for less than 1 year 2 days ago

Simple math, 20% of X node vote power is 8% of total vote power, 10% of economic vote power is 2% of total vote power. When you add this to 40% of authority node power you get 50%. I also think its not fair that people holding less then 1% have 40% and with around 10% of circulating supply have 80% of voting power meaning that 90% of circulating supply have only 20% of voting power. Did i miss something or does this vote power distribution make us pretty much centralized?

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ohredditplease Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

AN's don't just have some tokens but are obligated to contribute to the ecosystem in ways us normies could never do. They lose their status if they don't abide by a set of rules, they are KYC'ed so they can't just anonymously mess things up. I think these entities should have greater voting power because they have more to lose and thus will vote more responsibly. If they all agree on something it should absolutely be a near certainty that it gets implemented. This is an enterprise focused blockchain and voting should be weighted as such to keep it that way. All the votes are nullified btw unless thresholds are met for the various voting groups.

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StatFlow Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

...don’t the X Nodes have 40% voting power and Economic nodes have 20%?

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bitcoincams Redditor for less than 1 year 2 days ago

Yes they do.

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Jarvis03 Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

So what exactly would we be voting on in the future?

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AM_Dog_IRL Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

Steering committee, VTHO generation rate, adding a Stormbreaker X node tier, etc...

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Jarconis Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

Odin-X node 😬👊

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ohredditplease Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

Steering board members i think. Other things too

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Guacuara Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

Very nice. Vechain seems to think about every little detail. Impressing

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ohredditplease Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

This will require vevid right?

Edit. Only AN's require KYC it seems

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JkUncovered Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

Strange that this quote isn't actually true anymore since the introduction of the X-node marketplace........I also often ask myself how many X-nodes would be destroyed if they didn't introduce that.

The initiative was started on March 20, 2018 in a way that no new Economic X Node can be created, and Economic X Nodes can only upgrade their node tier. Therefore, the total number of Economic X Nodes will only decrease over time. Economic X Node holders are considered as long time supporters of the VeChain ecosystem.

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tangled-wires Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

Not sure what you mean

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JkUncovered Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

X Node holders are not always long term supporters anymore since you can now just buy the status if you feel like it.

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BiggusDickus- Redditor for more than 1 year 1 day ago

Perhaps so, but buying an Xnode will give you a greater incentive to remain invested and supportive of VeChain than the casual investor.

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bergs007 Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

It's true that not all x node holders are long time supporters, but the vast majority of them are. According to [https://vechainstats.com/](https://vechainstats.com/), 86% of x node tokens still belong to the original owner. Also, I know of some long term holders that snatched up extra tokens on the cheap, so I'd consider that statement to be *mostly* true, even if not *strictly* true.

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tpmv69 Redditor for more than 1 year Yesterday

My dream is to become an X node holder.

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tangled-wires Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

True but at least we get something extra out of being an x node

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mnbuckeye87 Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

How many of the 7000 or so nodes will be willing to give up voting rights by removing their node? The impact alone on the circulating supply will be tremendous. This is staking with a purpose!

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FindtheTruth5 Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

Can you clarify your comment? I'm a bit confused.

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mnbuckeye87 Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

There's a combination of xnodes and economic nodes that equal approx 7000, each of them has voting rights now, in addition to increased VTHO generation. I believe the value of getting and holding a node has increased now.

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ohredditplease Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

I think he's saying ppl will think twice about selling their node because they'd lose their vote

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sevletor Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

I'm looking forward to this.

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D3lusions Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

I’m starting to feel like a stock holder in a dividend paying company now lol

64

tpmv69 Redditor for more than 1 year Yesterday

I literally never thought about that before. But you are so correct! I'm very happy to also be a stock holder! Now I just need to continue working to get more tokens so that I have voting power!

1

tangled-wires Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

Pretty cool to see this. Makes me feel a part of it

22

waylandsphere Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

Really is cool to see. Cheers !

13

vincentlee8 2 days ago

Updated governance charter as linked in the article:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=16oCfxSZoYjEAhndbQbj9KG0zGfV-PL_9

X nodes and Economic nodes are now a central part of the governance process.

40

VeArtofThor VeChain Mod Yesterday

This is beautiful

2

TotalPark Redditor for less than 1 year 2 days ago

Redefined the categories of stakeholders with voting authority as Authority Masternode, Economic X Node and Economic Node

I do assume that strength x and above still have voting rights, correct? A little confusing.

7

vincentlee8 2 days ago

Read the updated governance charter linked in the article. It contains all the details on the new governance and voting weight for all stakeholders. https://drive.google.com/open?id=16oCfxSZoYjEAhndbQbj9KG0zGfV-PL_9

7

SolomonGrundle Moderator 2 days ago

All X-nodes and all non-X-nodes have voting rights

19

SolomonGrundle Moderator 2 days ago

My apologies to whoever I corrected ‘VeVote’ by calling it VeVOT the other day. Fail, haha.

23

waylandsphere Redditor for more than 1 year 2 days ago

Tbf it did used to say VeVot. VeVote works

5

SolomonGrundle Moderator 2 days ago

Hence my confusion. Thanks for the back up :D