Anyone else feel like Jimmy making the rules and not telling Roger felt like the part in The Sword and the Stone when Merlin and Mad Madam Mim have a wizard duel and Mim states the rules and then cheats the whole time?

Who thought it would be a good idea to have a "debate" without a moderator? This could have been a good discussion if both knew how it was going to go (and how long, so Jimmy couldn't just take his ball and run home)

Newer to Reddit, wasn't sure how else to attach the image... :/

​

Madam Mim Roger and Jimmy Meme

This has already been posted https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/9eo4co/jimmy_song_bch_is_a_fiat_money_in_debate_vs_roger/

"BCH is fiat money" This statement tells us what a lying asshole Jimmy is more than what BCH is.

Jimmy "broke back bitcoin" Wrong

Bcash, LOL!

Okay, I get his definition of what “fiat” (not necessarily money) is, but I don’t see how this makes BCH fiat money. Can someone explain?

Edit: also, does anyone have a link to the debate Jimmy is talking about? Would be good to see.

The BTC meritocracy, yeah, baby, LOL

Reading a speech, he may as well lipsynced a song

Just like the thousands of altcoins...

C R Y P T O K E Y N E S I A N S

You can repeat "BCH is centralized" all you want. It doesn't make it true.

Hhahahahahaah

All cryptocurrency is fiat. Fucking obviously.

This guy repeatedly misuses the following terms: Keynesian, fiat, communism, socialism.

​

All of these words have actual meanings. To Jimmy, they mean "boogeyman," so he uses them interchangeably. This shows that he knows nothing and any fund that relies on him for technical advice is doomed.

​

100% correct. Bravo Jimmy!

He keeps coming back to this "Roger Ver is a loser who is crying over the fact that he lost" argument. This argument only works when the BCH price is lower than the BTC price. Once that changes, his arguments fill flip against him.

These show how completely disengenuous Jimmy Song is as an individual. He makes point after point where he is either being completely ignorant of reality or is being intentionally moronic.

Here is my favorite example:

Further, by keeping transactions “free”, this changes mining incentives. The only rewards a miner gets are mining rewards and fees. By 2028, 3 halvenings and 10 years from now, fees will presumably still be 0 and rewards will be 1.56 BCH. At current BCH prices, that is about $750 per block. This reduces the security of the network significantly. Without fees, a 6-block double-spend can then be executed for $4500. You may be able to sell a $3 coffee on BCH, but you certainly won’t be able to sell a $1000 laptop without some serious risk.

If the BCH price is still what it is today in 10 years then BCH will have failed. But he doesn't make this same false equivilancy when talking about BTC. That's because he knows BCH won't be the same price in 10 years. But that doesn't stop him from making that argument.

He was reading script. I would not call it debate.

Well written and perfect summation of the core arguments.

1. I think the "bch development is centralized" is quite weak argument, considering the ongoing feud between development teams right now. Notice how he didn't mention miner centralization because anyone can check and verify that both BTC and BCH are about equally decentralised on this point.
2. The point about Gavin and co not cutting it is quite weak, considering Gavin's ongoing support with impressive concepts such as graphene.
3. Where he really shoots himself in the foot is in the section "Free transactions aren't free". This whole argument applies to BTC...except worse. The way BCH is escaping this halvening conundrum is exactly the way Satoshi described: VOLUME. High volume with low fee's replaces the block rewards - either there will be high volume or no volume.
4. "Being heard on a private forum is not an entitlement". Free speech is not a law, it is a philosophical principle that can be upheld in any domain of discourse, on any platform! It produces favourable outcomes for projects which engage it.

There is no central authority, each individual runs what software they want, what features are utilized and which use cases are prioritized. In other words, bitcoin is decentralized.

​

He ist talking about BTC.

Ok, he lost me there in the first half.

I'm only upvoting this so more people can see this.

I don't think I ever saw such a big propaganda piece, and I really don't have any idea how it's possible to write and/or say so much bullshit in one article. Seriously, it was painful to read through all that.

I could make a rebuttal to disprove basically everything in this article but I am not sure I want to read this pos article again.

What the hell is he talking about? hahaha... shows that the guy is clueless

Pro Tip: Almost no one does, and the ones that do are mostly disingenuous about the concept because they have financial incentivization to further its existence and/or are keynesians themselves and know full well that at the end of the day it will all collapse, as designed.

What a tool he is.

Calling the BCH development team incompetent is a little strange, first of all there isn't a single team, there are several teams or solo devs in open-source. Especially now in preparation for whatever November will bring. Some people that have contributed to BCH have also contributed to BTC.

Second, both the EDA (Emeregency Difficulty Adjustment) and the consensus bug (caused by a mistake while refactoring) have been fixed. Things like these happen when you have a project that tries to improve and over time there will be more eyeballs on BCH to check code before they get merged. In the end what resulted after the EDA fix is a better difficulty adjustment algorithm than what BTC have, things turned out well and we just have to make less mistakes in the future.

Third, that thing about there being an elite group that decides what the users must upgrade to. It's the exact same situation on BTC. Miner votes are non-binding opinion polls and can be completely ignored. Just a few people have access to merge code on GitHub. If they do something that most don't agree with everybody will just bite the bullet and are forced to upgrade. Or not. But they will if exchanges upgrade, else they can't sell what they mine. Just like how things work on BCH. Naturally there's a hidden path though: Fork the open-source bitcoin project due to disagreements, with enough people both forks have legitimacy...

Saying that BCH is fiat is really reaching. I bet even a lot of hard core BTC supporters will what-the-fuck to this claim, no matter how you define fiat in text books or how you try to spin Bitcoin Cash's "governance" into fitting that definition. Legacy Bitcoin has the exact same "governance".

Edit: Since Jimmy did this video on September 6:th https://youtu.be/83tH--5L1sA he knows perfectly well that BCH isn't as centralized as some would like to believe. There are heavy disagreements and instead of talking about them for years without anything happening and letting bitcoin stagnate there will most likely be a competition to see which way the miners will go. This is actual miner voting with hashpower on BCH instead of the non-binding opinion polls on BTC.

LOL at the people here in the comments. Do they even know in the first place why this question has been thought off?

I hope bitcoin can save Argentina, it will be a great impact around the world.

I think this is possible to happen when it is used by the right people and for the right purpose.

I think i get your point, yes btc is now a trend solution for the country's economy. If government of argentina allows btc to their country and nothing new or good is happen. It is always depends on the govt and the people living in the said country

Yes, I think it can save Argentina! This is the time for them to invest.

TLDR; Argentina should put 1% of it's reserves into bitcoin and start mining with their nuclear power plants. This would be good for bitcoin

Yes, of course some of the country that has cryptocurrency they had totally changed in some aspect to their lifestyle and community.

What's the use of a hundred dollars if you're stranded alone on an island with no food.

No.

No. I need to get out of here.

No.

"Can Argentina Save Bitcoin?" FIFY

Currency inflation in Argentina is merely a symptom of a much larger systemic problem. A cryptocurrency accepted almost nowhere surely isn't the cure.

How does the law for articles ending with question mark in the headline go?

NO

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

Im from argentina , our goverment is one of the most corrupted of the world , the dolar equals 40$ pesos argentinos , and we have a high inflation , 42% since january. But the currency is not the problem , the real problem is the politics of the goverments that governed in the last years

PD: Sorry for my english, im not good with this

No, it will not. Argentina troubles come deeply from a power struggle within factions from left, right, and it will be solved by a long due civil war. Is a problematic that needs to be solved by bloodshed, not technology.

How are things there at the moment. Traveling to Argentina in a few weeks...

Bitcoin is about politician facing their failures and don't making it people pay for it.

NO. Currency of any kind is not the source of the problems... and hence it can not be a solution.

As soon as any central bank holds a single Bitcoin we will be in totally new territory. That would be the starting gun for commercial banks to step in, along with investment funds and pensions. That a central banker is even talking about it is extraordinary - these people take pride in their inscrutability and almost always speak in coded language.

Add in the EU's announcement today that they will perform a regulatory assessment because crypto assets are here to stay and I think the future is rosy (even if the markets are awash in red ink right now).

Argentina is a victim of the Argentinian government.

Even if BTC could solve their financial problems, the politicians would still kill it somehow in favor of tax, debt, and spend.

Don't cry for me Argentina.

No, it can save it's people but not the nation. Current governments are so insanely large that people would revolt if the costs came in the form of direct taxes instead of inflation.

No.

For that, the rich countries must first have alot of hodlers for life in order to reduce volatility

I'm not a shiller or fudder, I hate them, too. I'm just a big fan of Svandis. And investor, of course. Because this project always show results to its investors and foollowers. I think it's very important for every project

I think we have better future with Svandis. Svandis is developing a platform for crypto markets to provide leading financial research, analytical and visualisation tools for professional short-term and long-term traders, analysts, hedge funds, institutional investors, proprietary trading firms, venture capital funds, token sales contributors, exchanges and other participants in the crypto space. It offers many products that are managed by a team of professional analysts, technologists, journalists, and statisticians.

Here is the link to the original comment thread. Or you can comment here to start a discussion. Author: _Madgingerofficial

Citigroup has created what it's calling a Digital Asset Receipt or DAR, thought to be the most direct way to invest in cryptocurrencies without owning them, according to people with knowledge of the project. The DAR works much like an American Depository Receipt, which gives US investors the ability to invest in foreign stocks that aren't traded on US exchanges. The structure would place cryptocurrencies within existing regulatory regimes and give big Wall Street investors a less risky way of investing in the fledgling asset class.

Citigroup may have cracked the cryptocurrency code.

The New York-based bank has come up with perhaps the most direct way to invest in cryptocurrencies without actually owning them, according to people with knowledge of the plans. The structure would place cryptocurrencies within existing regulatory regimes and give big Wall Street investors like asset managers and hedge funds a less risky way of investing in the fledgling asset class.

Citi has developed an instrument it's calling a Digital Asset Receipt or DAR. It works much like an American Depository Receipt or ADR, which has been around for decades to give US investors a way to own foreign stocks that don't otherwise trade on US exchanges. The foreign stock is held by a bank, which then issues the depository receipt.

In this case, the cryptocurrency is held by a custodian and the DAR is issued by Citigroup, the people said. The bank will alert the Depository Trust & Clearing Corp, a Wall Street middleman that provides clearing and settlement services, once it's issued the receipt, one of the people said. That lends an important layer of legitimacy and gives investors a way to track the investment within a system that they're already familiar with, the person added.

The project is a collaboration between the bank's capital markets origination team and the depository receipts services team, the people said.

It's unclear what stage of development Citi is with the project and when it will launch but the bank has already begun to reach out to potential partners. A Citigroup spokeswoman declined to comment on the bank's plans.

Citigroup is one of the largest issuers of ADRs in the world. The bank began issuing depository receipts in 1928, and has won numerous awards for its offering, according to its website.

Wall Street has tread carefully with the burgeoning cryptocurrency market, which is vulnerable to wild price swings, repeated hacks of exchanges and wallets, and a stigma that it enables criminal behavior.

As a result, Citi has held back from earlier efforts to participate in cryptocurrency markets. Unlike firms like Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs, Citi did not immediately clear bitcoin futures trades for its clients and it's kept a lower profile than some of its peers. It also banned clients from making crypto currency related purchases with its credit cards.

But it has been hiring in the sector. The bank was seeking a vice president and senior vice president to explore risks associated with money laundering in bitcoin, cryptocurrency, and other nascent payment technologies, according to LinkedIn job ads posted earlier this year. Bitcoin has often been associated with activities such as money laundering.

Oh, nice unexpected news!

Premium content. Anyone copy n paste it?

The DAR works much like an American Depository Receipt,

related:

Benefits

ADR holders do not have to transact in foreign currencies, because ADRs trade in U.S. dollars and clear through U.S. settlement systems. The U.S. banks require that the foreign companies provide them with detailed financial information, making it easier for investors to assess the company's financial health compared to a foreign company that only transacts on international exchanges.

Trading ADRs

To offer ADRs, U.S. banks simply purchase shares from the international company and reissue them, typically on U.S. exchanges. An ADR may represent the underlying shares on a one-for-one basis, or it may represent a fraction of a share or multiple shares. The depositary bank sets the ratio of U.S. ADRs per home-country share at a value that appeals to investors. If an ADR’s value is too high, it could deter some investors, but if it is too low, investors may think the underlying securities resemble riskier penny stocks.

Numerous companies trade in the United States as ADRs. For example, Volkswagen trades OTC under the ticker VLKAY. BP Plc. trades on the NYSE under the ticker BP.

src. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/adr.asp

Business insider's prime article? What is the article about.

Paywalled.

Here is the link to the original comment thread. Or you can comment here to start a discussion. Author: _MorbidMG

Project with first-class idea) Join to powerful ICO!

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High Times has one of the worst web pages of all of cannabis culture.

Where did you see that? Sounds interesting anyway

Added to favourites

This graphics are stunning. I've been looking for a place to reference reliable segwit % adoption in a block. Would you be open to offering a chart like that? Also, what's your twitter. I'll tweet this.

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It's really great. Recently, somewhere in the network saw that Litecoin reduced activity on github and upset. You as always well done guys

Cool! Off-topic question — how did you get this working with Ethereum? It seems they don’t have a proper Insight fork, and the blockchain data is enormous.

Curious there's no Lambo's being sold though. ;)

I don't think they have much to do with this.

Is it true that BCH now vulnerable to be 51% attack? Some pro explain me please?

Charlie Lee and Litecoin community would pull this scheming shit on Feathercoin, too. More things change, more they stay the same.

I honestly have no idea where these guys are getting their information from.

4.27/51.81*100=8.3%

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. we are now at the fighting stage.

Rule II:

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Posts which are tenuously related to economics or light on economic analysis or from perspectives other than those of economists should be shared with more appropriate subreddits and will be removed. This will keep /r/economics distinct from the many related subreddits.

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Would they admit to insider trading?

This is why I fucking hate the media. They lie all the time and they don’t even care if everyone knows it. American news media has become mere tabloids. Actually 1990’s national enquirer is more credible than American news media outlets these days.

It’s CNBC.... oh.....

oh that's just cute. someone releases an unfactual article that gets picked up and pushes the market down right before release so when the news breaks people see the market falling

that's not suspicious or anything

What the actual fuck??????? Market dumps on the fake news and doesn't rise on the real news.

What a fucking scam. Float fake news from one hand and have the head say something else. That’s a 10% dip they manipulated, and exactly with the SEC needs to get it together and start putting some goddamn rules to crypto. By putting off ETFs, the US is risking losing their position as a global financial leader

I pointed this out yesterday... If you went back to the original rumour, it was from anonymous sources.

Even then, most of the actual articles yesterday just said their priority was going to be the custody product. Which is what the original rumours said they were going to do first. The fake news is that the original rumours said they'd have a trading desk by June. Which they didn't. So the lack of any further news from them respecting a trading desk should have been priced in by anyone who cared about the rumour in the first place.

we heard that before.

​

Classic poop and scoop

Alright, let's put on that tin-foil hat.

Goldman knows, that the SEC decision for rejecting previous ETF applications, like the Winkelvoss ETF, was partly due to "possible market manipulation".

One could argue, that this back and forth of Goldmans "crypto-trading-desk" was the reason for the recent dip. I personally doubt it, but it might be.

One also could assume that this could be seen as manipulation by Goldman. Their lawyers will argue that it's not their fault, it was fake-news, whatever. This isn't about legality.

If all this is true, then one conclusion is, that Goldman wants the decision of the VanEck-ETF delayed further (latest date of a decision is late Feb. 2019, iirc).

Why?

Do they want their friends to have a little more time to onboard on BTC?

Are they planning on having their own ETF?

Wow a story citing no real sources was fake news? SO surprising in 2018.

This one's already up, sorry

Yeah right

Media is total shit

The shorts made profit, quick go long and reverse the news!

This whiplash is confusing my emotional responses... my muscle memory still sold upon reading but I couldn't be fearful about it...

Barting on the way? (bart chart formation)

Ahh, the old switcheroonie. More back and forth than a tennis match.

Bloomberg is spreading bitcoin fud? I'm shocked! /s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFu3FPjGluU

Rofl

what a cluster fuck. Buy, buy, buy

WtfLol ??? Sax guy humping

more proof that high frequency trading runs by its own agenda. Unless BTC and BCH return to 7360$ and 630$ immediately on this news, consider pricing broken and consider having extra funds to buy on the cheap every so often.

Thanks /u/waxwing

Poelstra has however also made the very intriguing point that it is not actually required for the two blockchains to be operating on the same elliptic curve group for the construction to work.

This is one of the reasons I am interested in Schnorr on Bitcoin. It will allow these types of swaps with the Ed25519 signature scheme my blockchain uses.

Schnorr signatures... fungibility, privacy, and capacity improvement. Exciting to see this space develop!

Here is the link to the original comment thread. Or you can comment here to start a discussion. Author: BobAlison

Boycott these idiots COINBASE

If you have any transaction problems at all Coinbase will give you a generic / canned response "We will forward this to a specialist" and they will never get back to you!!

You wait and wait with these services and they are knowingly sending you in a never ending loop intentionally driving you to give up.

If you have any problems AT ALL with your transaction Coinbase will tell you "We will forward this to a specialist" when you have a transaction problem. I've seen multiple reports of people getting nowhere after losing deposits with Coinbase.

Dont believe me just type on "Specialist Coinbase" here or anywhere!

https://www.reddit.com/search?q=coinbase%20specialist

DO NOT get caught up with Coinbase!!

The is huge news! More big companies and firms are uniting together to get an ETF through. The U.S. needs more exposure to crypto.

seriously?

BULLISH LEVEL = BAKKT!

FUCK THE ETF, IF I HEAR ETF ONE MORE TIME I WILL SELL MY 1M BTC.

Thank you

Satoshi

YUGE!!! go Coinbase GO!!

Nice coinbase. This is a good exchange next on kucoin

What is the deal with this?

Coinbase has its nose so far up Ver's ASS that they probably want to do a BCH ETF, lol!!

Let's see if it can get approved first by the SEC

Crypto ETF, not just BTC. ;)

Can someone ELI5 what an ETF is?

Blackrock could actually put political pressure on to get it approved. Still think it’s unlikely.

I wonder when people will start ignoring ETFs, GS and all the BS and start doing crypto again...

Fuck conbase

Blackrock+new pro-crypto SEC commissione(Elad Roisman)=potentially more bullish than you can imagine.

do not sell right now or you may get to experience acute sellers regret. This last crash just feels artificial as hell. Ideally accumulate a little more or just hold.

Dump market, pump market, dump market, repeat until they shook all of the early adopters out of their money. Sell a bastardize version back to the public under centralized control. Continue on with banking as usual.

Fuck them

Correction: This would be a "cryptocurrency ETF" because they want to pack it full of random altcoins in addition to Bitcoin. Sounds like a terrible idea and I hope it fails.

They should explore how not to commit fraud before they catch the kind of heat they aren't ready for.

Anyone who has dealt with their support knows what I'm talking about.

Did Blackrock have anything to say about this? If not then it's meaningless. Coinbase had a conference call with a few low level Blackrock staffers during which nothing of substance was discussed and nothing was agreed to. This is the kind of FUD that will get pushed out to the masses hoping you will continue to buy.

Coinbase will be the new wall street

He hot

Repeat after me. Bitcoin. Does. Not. Need. A. Fucking. ETF.

How the hell are you people going to go around telling people this is the future of money, we don’t need centralized authorities and banks. But then hope and pray for a stupid fucking ETF.

This is also related and timely news: https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/9dk955/bitcoin_etf_chances_increase_as_republican_sec/?ref=share&ref_source=link

It is amazing to experience the drive of this community

Epic recap. Amazing to see all the great work happening on top of Bitcoin.