where do I even begin w this..
"it was reassuring to see that people from under-represented groups at Coinbase have not taken the exit package in numbers disproportionate to the overall population"
is some serious
'im not racist bc i have a Black friend' type logic lmao https://t.co/lEgSzjNdeP
Your post title's view on how much freedom a sovereign individual should be entitled to expect while under an agreement to perform a job in exchange for compensation is fucked and has a hard on for authoritarianism.
What happened at Coinbase is fine. That they all came to an agreement is great. Deal done. Move on.
"talk about social issues on company time? NOPE!" whip cracks
Jesus christ dude. I hope you are nowhere near any kind of leadership position in whatever the fuck you do in your life.
Man all this is for lolz. This entire sub. Yeah the title is meant to be.. engaging. You don't care about coinbase or any of the affected people any more than I do. Sure, they are people and in a predicament, and it sucks for them, and we can empathize. But they made their choice and collected their checks, nobody got hurt.
Tbh were probably both roleplaying stereotypical redditors in the way we’re replying to each other as I don’t even talk to people irl the way I do online when I assume this alter ego persona.
I’m usually pretty stoned when I use this acct, to be fair, so take that however you want :-*
These same fools would likely go to work at Coinbase and spend their days talking about how “taxation is theft” and think they should be immune from this policy. Anyone who uses the term “social justice warrior” is just revealing themselves for that white privileged bitch that they are.
I wouldn't want to work for a company fighting against my interests. Good for them.
As for you OP, when someone thinks people putting their livelihood on the line are somehow sensitive snowflakes I think it shows a real inability to appreciate the risks involved in putting what you believe in before your income.
Coinbase is many things, including anti-bitcoin. I'll applaud anyone who quits.
The issue that started it all is about race which is red hot today. Would you be defending people putting their livelihoods at risk (as you put it) standing up for what they believe, if they stood up for another controversial issue, like papering their cube walls with images of aborted fetuses? Or printing out nazi swastikas. Or demanding their four 15 minute breaks and a special area so they can pray to entity their tradition demands, with foot washing tub or whatever? It gets dicey very quickly. There are employee protections but everyone cannot be accommodated, especially when those employees press the CEO to take a particular stance that they like. "Hey Brian - say you're pro life or we are walking out and protesting outside!"
I titled this post this way because in my previous life I was an employee, a good one. And I had and have strongly held beliefs. But I didn't advertise them on company time. I was busy, you know, working. And I sure as hell didn't ask what the CEO thought about politics or race or religion and whatever else. You can have your beliefs and exercise your various rights outside of work. I didn't feel the need to stump for my pet causes and then act indignant when others weren't into them.
It doesn't get dicey. There's nothing analogous about your analogs and everything presumptuous about why people choose to leave. I don't give a hoot what specific policy of coinbase's has each individual leaving, I care that they leave because coinbase is a cancer. The identity politics you want to engage in are absurd.
I don't want to engage in any politics. That's the point. These employees wanted to, but that's not what they were getting paid for.
I draw a distinction where a cause you like means they stood up for that they believe, and if it's a cause you don't like means they were insubordinate. BLM is in the spotlight and a cause a lot of people like. So the employees are seen as victims of big bad corporation.
>I draw a distinction where a cause you like means they stood up for that they believe, and if it's a cause you don't like means they were insubordinate
Exactly, that is you and the conversation you want to have and nothing to do with what I've spoken about. I certainly made no statement reflecting anything of the sort, you're all on your own drawing conclusions. I have already explicitly told you I don't care what specifically it is they believe that they are standing up for, I care that people are leaving Conbase. You want to paint the issue as something entirely about identity politics in the workplace where you project the explicit reasons why these 60 employees collectively left. You want to talk about idiotic politics despite claiming you don't because you keep asserting them as being relevant - all while I keep asserting the only thing relevant since we cannot presume why each individual left is that they left. Screw Coinbase.
I think this is the right take.
Some of the people that left might have had views you would consider dumb, but some might have had views that were basically the same as yours... we don't know.
Many people here have faulted some coinbase staff for walking out for outside-of-work things but not standing up against things like the hacking team acquisition, the company's servility to absurd privacy invading rights oppressing regulators and law enforcement making demands outside of their remit, the company's conspicuous actions against the Bitcoin community, or their adoption of scammy ICOs. For all we know these were major factors for some of the people who left... I doubt it was a single reason for most people.
It's okay for people to disagree. It's okay for people to have different priorities. It makes me feel hopeful for humanity when people can sort out their disagreements in a civil and mutually respectful way. The same thing that makes it okay for coinbase to ask employees to keep advocacy and politics out of the work place is what makes it okay for people to choose to not work there in response.
Even when we don't agree with someone's views we should respect them for standing up for them-- particularly when its their skin on the line and not ours. That applies both to the employees who are departing and the coinbase leadership here.
\> walking out for outside-of-work things
How do you not get that this is a work thing? The people speaking up don't have the option giving Brian a severance package because they disagree with him. These people talk about all kinds of politics all day at work, they're subject to it as part of their job. To draw the line at race is how Brian flexes white privilege.
Quitting is also firing your boss: When you work you are paying your management by allowing them to share in the benefits of your labour. The power dynamics don't make it as equivalent as it would be otherwise, but things like severance can reduce the gap.
I don't have any visibility inside coinbase so there could be things going on that I'm not aware of but I haven't seen anything that indicate their policy is particular to race (and I've heard some comments that left/right US politics were creating a lot of tension ongoing). Given my understanding of the history here I could agree that they started drawing lines when employees walked off the job-- but that seems like a place where response was necessary because it actively endangered the business.
I respect the fact that they choose to leave the company instead of trying to force the rest of the company and world to their views.
> Just because you feel strongly about something doesn't mean everyone else has to too
Exactly... I'm just glad to see these 60 employees realizing that.
I don't give a damn what their views are. I'm just delighted to find someone willing to express an opinion in 2020 that doesn't involve molotov cocktails or petitioning twitter to revoke everyone's account.
What a courageous decision by coinbase. I am a firm believer in not mixing business with politics. In fact it was only a few years ago this was one of the two things you were never supposed to do. The other being mixing religion and business. I can't believe I'm saying this but I wish coinbase all the luck and hope they hold strong. I'm also not making any judgement on the merits of anyone's beliefs. Right, left, good or bad. What you want to do or think on your time is none of my business and quite frankly I couldn't care less, have at it. Just don't shove it in my face and get me to act/think/believe in whatever when I'm trying to give you my money or my attention. I find this very rude. You do you, let me do me and we can all be friends ok.
Also this is why I love BTC. TRUSTLESS without all the emotional baggage.
I want a developer writing code while on the clock, not pretending like them Liking some post on facebook counts as actual activism. They can do actual activism on their own time outside of work if they choose. The *oh so controversial idea* I'm selling (as you put it) is do the work you're getting paid to do. Clearly the downvoters are virtue signaling employees who like special treatment, and never were employers who like (gasp) productive and engaged workforce.
What is "the opposite?" Literally saying black lives don't matter? That's pretty clear cut violation of your standard HR norms. Wouldn't fly.
Yeah the big ones have no choice or they will get sued.
It must be easy to wax poetic when it's not you money. When you hire someone and pay them while they push non-work agenda let me know how you like it.
Software engineers change jobs a lot.
This isn't life changing at all.
Depending on the size of the severance package I'm sure a lot of people just took advantage of it and coinbase only did this to downsize.
You're an edgelord now if you just think work should be about work. Man that's dropping the bar. Still though, overwhelming consensus in the comments is Coinbase did the right thing by letting them go, so you're objectively wrong.
> finds themselves defending Coinbase and thinking it has traction
At the time of my post, well over half of the other posts agreed with op. That's about as objective as you can get unless you think math itself is not objective.
You're struggling understanding what has been stated and why it was objectively wrong.
The assertion was:
>finds themselves defending Coinbase and thinking it has traction
The implication is that ops defense of Coinbase did not have traction. The objective proof it did have traction is well over half of the posts were supporting op.
Take a breather and try to keep up with what you're arguing. Maybe come back when you're not so emotional.
A few people agreeing in reddit comments is not objective proof of traction.
It's just funny similar to how people use the word "literally". Ever notice how whenever people use that word they invariably do not actually mean literally? Similar with objectively, it's like an exaggeration, but I just think it's funny that words like this are almost never used without being an exaggeration.
Funny example: it's literally been proven that this comment defending coinbase has traction
Lol agree to disagree. Perhaps our disagreement on whether this thread constitutes OPs defense of coinbase gaining traction is evidence that it is in fact subjective whether it gained traction or not.
Am I being pedantic? Sure
Will I keep pointing out when 12 year olds use words incorrectly like saying they literally died or saying things are objective when they are clearly subjective? Probably
If you said "objectively over half of comments in this thread agree with OP" would that actually be an objective fact? Sure would
You're not being pedantic. You're whining because you lost an argument. By any measure, whether in this thread or not, support for coinbase has gained a ton of traction objectively. Perhaps you should go to coinmarketcap.com, check out bitcoin markets and look at the volume coinbase pro alone does. Even your complaint that reddit comments don't count isn't good enough.
Good luck dealing with your loss here.
You should keep an open mind, often when you think people are being profoundly dumb there is a miscommunication.
Without even clicking I went to go link you to https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/bob-black-the-abolition-of-work ... but now that I look, I see that this is linked in the sidebar there, which confirms my guess about what that subreddit is about. (Several other items in the sidebar there are articles that I've linked people to in the past, including the Graeber and the Russell).
There is a perspective against the modern construction of "work" that all too often involves devoting most of our waking hours as a wage slave doing pointless jobs to enrich people that don't care about you, where your participation is "voluntarily" but in name only due to the coercive structure of our economy.
Especially with automation taking over such an enormous portion of essential labour, it isn't absurd to think that work in our civilization could instead be structured in a way that treated people with a lot more respect, granted more freedom, and that we could be happier and even more productive as a result.
It's an out-there position for sure, but I think that it's one worth thinking about.
People are so indoctrinated they just scoff at rational ideas instead of thinking about them critically.
I agree with you 100% and can absolutely get behind building similar societal frameworks.
The other key takeaway is that the coercive nature of economies was designed and built by the ruling class. The same uncaring people wage slavery enriches almost beyond comprehension. It is this fact which makes substantive changes so much more difficult to achieve.
The owners of the society collectively want to keep the majority of humanity toiling for their benefit while they own and control the macro features of the society. And currently this is where we’re at. Maybe we’ll collectively evolve out of it but it doesn’t seem likely. Awareness is a start.
Well there's some truth to it. Extreme AI is going to be here before 2030 in my opinion but this terroristic, "you must believe as I do or else" mentality is far, far worse than simply wanting to end work.
It is objectively true that about 6% of the population (black males) are responsible for around 50% of the violent crimes in the US. Those are straight FBI facts. Video after video shows the vast majority of negative police encounters are because of lack of compliance and simply wanting to be above the law. The media also hypes up these events and highlights the hell out of them. Schools teach that whites are evil and blacks are oppressed to this day by all whites. These are the real problems.
The only thing that matters to me is truth. Start there and then figure out what the solutions are--humanely.
I don't think anyone keeps statistics on whether someone was mentally ill or not. I'm not sure. Regardless, of the 10 million arrests each year, a very, very, very small number of unarmed people are killed.
>As of the June 22 update, the Washington Post’s database of fatal police shootings showed 14 unarmed Black victims and 25 unarmed white victims in 2019.
Now clearly one can counter that black people are only 13% of the population. Still, a counter can be made against this that they are by far more violent and that is backed up by statistics (check the article). Black communities themselves ask for more law enforcement.
This article lays out the truth of what's happening:
Still, I'm with your side. I say we get rid of all police. I believe things will get sorted out rather quickly once that happens.
There a hundred of cases. One I can remember right now when they shot the doctor of an schyzophrenic kid. A guy on his knees with the hands on the back of his head. Bang. At least he survived.
Why did he shoot? “I don’t know”
Not sure if it's ironic or just sad that you're using a nazi term to denigrate the only group that is actively fighting against the neo-nazi movement, instead of calling them to arms on national television.
Edit: I do agree with coinbase's move, just frustrated to see people marking this as a conservative victory when the whole point was to stifle the damage this 'red vs blue' bullshit can inflict on a company.