It would be ironic if the airline industry are the ones to break the shutdown since they are also the primary reason walls do not work. For over 100 years there have been these things called planes that can fly over any wall.
Correct, however , the skills that apply to this job are pounded into our head for years . And it’s not a very transferable job. If we quit we lose a well paying job , and have to start somewhere else with no clue what we are doing . If you’re a controller , the only job you can do is control really
Though a smaller country, the Israelis seem to have done a great job at having actual security in place. TSA is there to look like they're doing something and make people feel safe (in reality, they're GED holders who are stealing whatever they want from your bag and swapping backscatter scans of people they find attractive). [This article](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/daniel-wagner/what-israeli-airport-secu_b_4978149.html) isn't as in depth as the one I recall reading some years ago, but gives some idea.
Although this caveat is a kicker, especially with the rise of white nationalism in the US:
> The Israelis’ focus on the human factor is not of course infallible. Ben Gurion may be more vulnerable to an attack from a disillusioned Israeli citizen as a result.
Passenger safety will not be effected. Government employees will never risk safety in any way. The real problem is that the utilities are not getting paid. The meter man doesn't care who the customer is, and if power/water gets shut off to the tower that can quickly become a problem. Most .gov agencies pay "in arrears" and are 30 days late as SOP, so we're now 45 days past due and getting pink slips.
> Government employees will never risk safety in any way
Umm, trump is a government employee and is doing PRECISELY that. [Exhibit A](https://www.vox.com/2019/1/10/18177004/fbi-agents-association-union-shutdown-letter)
No ATC will intentionally risk safety, but it's a stressful job which requires a lot of focus. As this drags on, the controllers will be more stressed about their finances. Some who don't have lots of saving may even struggle to get to work if they can't afford the gas. All of this will be on their minds, and that's bad. When people are more stressed, they are more prone to mistakes. From a human factors perspective, having a bunch of unpaid controllers is a safety risk.
If controllers start taking more time off, or those who are eligible start retiring a little before they planned then the staffing levels will necessitate restrictions on the amount of Air Traffic that happens every day, which may lead to flight cancellations and a slowdown in the airline industry which will hurt the economy.
Again, controllers know the important role they play, and would never knowingly put passengers at risk. But they face the same pressures as all of us and without income they may start to seek other jobs or use their time off more.
Lol, you're being very naive. A family member told me about a TSA employee who when asked by a flyer if he had to scan his laptap in the x-ray machine, the agent said I don't care, do what you want, I'm not getting paid.
My personal unverifiable/unfalsifiable anecdote:
A few days ago my suitcase set off the x-ray machine (as it always does), but TSA didn't even check it this time. Accordingly, I got through security faster than usual (small airport though)
Anecdotal evidence. That was a tweet going around, but 99% horse puckey in my opinion. You want to be the guy that let a bad guy on a plane that takes out 200 passengers? Nah. Even Dems are that stoopid.
TSA agents are calling out in droves. How is that not risking safety? I'm disregarding the notion that TSA agents may not make things any safer than before we had the TSA, but trying to make the point that there is a breaking point.
> I'm disregarding the notion that TSA agents may not make things any safer than before we had the TSA, but trying to make the point that there is a breaking point.
That's what I just said. I'm still trying to make a point that airports might shut down if there are no TSA agents, regardless of what their effectiveness is.
4.6% of TSA called in sick this week, compared to 3.8% for the same time last year. Nationwide, TSA screened just over 2 million passengers yesterday. 99.9 percent of passengers waited less than 30 minutes; 92.9 percent of passengers less than 15 minutes. In TSA Pre✓® lanes, passengers on average waited less than five minutes. I'm sure at some point a month or two from now it could become an issue, but for now everything is operating as expected. I'm working without pay and will continue to do so until it's over. It happens under every president I've worked for and will happen to the next one too. Prepare for it federal employees.
https://www.someecards.com/news/news/overheard-tsa-agents-government-shutdown/ Not the best source, but some of these tweets show the opposite of what you're saying. Do you have a source for those percentages?
Thank you for working without pay. I can only imagine how difficult it is for you to do so.
@TSA_Bilello on twitter. He's the Public Affairs guy for the TSA. I also work at several airports and just gather what I hear in the smoke break area and from other .gov employees. I'm sure in dark blue areas the employees are far more "resist" than out here in freedomville, but I don't see it personally.
No. It's a place where a transgender black kid can have a normal conversation without fear of getting their head bashed in because they support the President, and they can get a great job without fear of getting canned over political views. You know, normal America.
I think though that the notion you're disregarding is probably why they can call out without really feeling much guilt. Air traffic controllers know their value, even if the government doesn't always respect it.
An entry level ATC makes 3x as much as a TSA agent, which make slightly more than minimum wage. How can you judge how much someone's "value" is? Everyone has bills to pay, I'd call out sick to drive Uber or Postmates if I had kids to feed and rent to pay. They aren't going to have the same savings potential as an ATC in the same airport.
It's a macro vs micro thing a bit here. ATC controllers call out all the time. They get sick, have family emergencies, etc. They don't feel guilt when they do it (most don't anyhow). Hell, in some respects they have to treat it as a job lest the weight of the consequences of a mistake mess with their head too much. An individual controller who is feeling stressed about money may feel very little guilt about using some of his/her earned time off. Enough of them do this, it becomes a problem where maybe the FAA orders no time off other then for documented medical reasons or something to that extent. Which will help morale sooo much. What's happening is just awful.
Air Traffic controllers went on strike during the Regan administration, they didn't have a problem stopping flights then and they wouldn't now. They have a tough and stressful job with one of the highest suicide rates in the country, doing that without pay is going to lead to a lot of people catching some sort of flu.
> They have a tough and stressful job
Big agree, even when you're dealing with career professionals like Kennedy Steve, [just listening to the insane messes they have to put up daily gives me a whole new appreciation for them.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3TYEaOEKt8)
100% and I thank any air traffic controller who still comes to work despite not getting a paycheck.
I guess my wonder is what will happen to air travel if there are no TSA agents? Will airlines still have flights going out?
I also have personal stake in the question; I'm supposed to be flying out on a trip in March.
I know an ATC who's partner also works for the government. They were Trump supporters so...
On Facebook a day or so ago, one put up a post about not getting paid. With a disclaimer of "I don't want to talk politics, I'm just stressing out."
Boo fucking hoo. Are you winning yet?
I get where you are coming from, but think about it this way. Just because they voted for someone you don't agree with is exactly what this country is about. They are allowed to express their opinion just like you are, and I am, and everyone else is. That is what this country was founded on. The problem is ultimately not that trump won, it was the apathy towards politics that normally democratic voters live by. Instead of being mad that they voted for trump, instead get people who you know are apathetic and don't necessarily vote up off their butts to vote.
My main issue is the "I don't want to talk politics" bit. The very nature of the problem they're posting about is politics. They don't want to hear people say "I told you so." they don't want to have to defend their continued support.
I mean, whatever, I roll my eyes and move on. It's just self pity and I won't feed into it.
During the Obama presidency, my family and some coworkers would never shut up about politics.
They all voted for Trump.
Now it's "I don't watch the news" and "I don't wanna talk about politics"
While I enjoy the silence, it's very frustrating.
It can, sort of, but when funds are restored, they'll get back pay and they'll take the premiums and taxes out of that. The whole thing royally sucks, but for that particular aspect, it usually all works out.
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