The energy used in securing bitcoin exponentially builds on the security and inturn value of the network with every block.
It doesn't dissipate with each block.
Or as nocoiners think with each transaction.
Waste is only if something doesn’t serve a beneficial purpose. Mining definitionally can’t be wasteful if people value it securing the blockchain and there aren’t alternatives which meet the requisite criteria.
True, could you imagine the cost to manufacture just excavator and everything inside of it broken down to the component level... it looks like bitcoin isiz an mprovement. If something doesn't take energy to obtain what value would it have. If gold was all over the place and anyone could go outside and grab as much as they wanted it would be priced similar to rocks.
affordable and plentiful energy is the primary reason that society has progressed as much as it has in the last 100 years
nowadays, we have it so good, that we walk around complaining about something that we should be grateful for
This one of the dumbest things I've ever read. Just because gold mining is a waste of energy doesn't mean that the amount of energy bitcoin uses isn't also a waste. Almost nobody uses gold as a currency either.
Bitcoin isn’t a country, so its energy usage really shouldn’t be compared to the power usage of a country or countries.
That's the entire point of the comparison. Bitcoin's energy usage is obscene and unacceptable because it isn't a country yet it uses an entire country's worth of electricity. What's so hard to understand about that?
with all due respect, what makes you think that you have any opinion or rights to tell someone else how to spend their own money?
if they want to spend it to mine bitcoin, and they are paying for the energy to do that themselves, then its not really any of your business.
and if someone wants to spend their own money to pay for energy costs to mine gold, thats none of your business either.
use as much or as little energy as you wish to, and allow others the same freedom to buy and use as much as they want to as well.
this whole idea that people can go around telling others how much energy they can buy with their own money is nonsense, and i don't want to hear it anymore.
...or, as people used to say "mind your OWN business" and "Live and Let Live"
Energy utilization needs to be constrained in some fashion because of the huge negative externality it produces which all too often isn't taken account of -- pollution.
So it's a more a case of "live and let kill everyone" rather than "live and let live" if we are to take your thinking on its face.
> Energy utilization needs to be constrained in some fashion
ok, you first.
once you stop using energy, then let us know, and the rest of will follow you.
but, with all due respect, since youre still using energy, then no need to tell anyone else what to do
I already use less than I would due to the very sort of policy I mentioned as necessary, e.g., gas tax. As do you.
Look up the concept of negative externality to get something of the problem of unrestrained energy use (assuming it's mostly non-renewable, which is indeed the case now).
Finally, I have an electric car and am transitioning (very slowly) to solar utilization for my propertty; so it's fair to say I'm at least trying.
Since paper money and coins consume energy to mint should we just go digital with fiat altogether? We get rid of physical money but we still have to pay for electricity to transfer money? There has to be a ledger maintained and updated at each location to ensure people aren't spending more than what's in their accounts?
You still seem to believe the fallacy of Bitcoin not being worth anything because it's virtual/digital. So what if Bitcoin isn't a country? It's a highly secure sound money system that can be one of the foundations for world wide civilization. I think it's pretty clearly worth it.
The other benefit of Bitcoin mining is that it can easily be converted to use only non-carbon energy sources, where as converting gold mining to exclusively non-carbon energy would take decades and be very expensive.
Bitcoin mining can help fund new geothermal, hydroelectric and nuclear power generation.
ok, thats cool that we can mine bitcoin with non-carbon energy energy sources, but why?
we have plenty of carbon fuel sources still, and carbon and nuclear are WAY cheaper. I mean, why use a much more expensive power source when we have plenty of fossil fuels still left.
Sure, one day we can just use non-carbon fuels, when they figure it out how to make it cheaper than carbon based energy, but until them we should use whats cheapest, and then only change when we run out of carbon fuels (or when we can make non-carbon fuels cheaper)
but purposefully use more expensive energy sources? that sounds like the worst business plan ever
Geothermal, hydroelectric and nuclear are all cheaper than carbon based electricity.
The only problem is that geothermal is very location specific and hydro is both location specific and limited in output.
makes sense. personally, i say let someone use whatever is the cheapest where ever they are (whether it be coal, gas, solar, wind, or whatever)
its their mining, let them make their own choice. why people feel like they need to tell others what kind of energy they should use is beyond me?
There are real world example such as a dam being restarted again to mine bitcoins. There no source it just the truth. Bitcoin mining can use green energy if it cheap to. It can move closer to the area compared to other users of energy. It much easier to move bitcoin mining rigs than it is to move banks/gold mines/other users on energy. This post explains most of what u/TheSultanOfSwagger
was trying to say: https://bitcointribune.org/2018/09/02/pow-does-not-destroy-the-environment/
What part what u/TheSultanOfSwagger said is a ridiculous claim?
Bitcoin mining is the only usage of electricity that is completely location independent. Bitcoin mining can be setup in any location where electricity is cheap and stable (Except for very hot regions, in a hot region electricity needs to be cheap enough to make up for cooling costs). Large power plants are built looking decades into the future. They are often built with lots of excess capacity because they know that demand increases over time. Bitcoin mining can help new plants reach profitability faster by allowing them to run at near max output from day 1. I'm not saying anyone is actually doing this today, but it is inevitable given the economic benefits.
Meanwhile, converting gold mining to non-carbon energy would be very expensive. Gold mining companies already have a lot of money invested in diesel powered equipment. Switching to electric equipment (which doesn't even exist yet) would be absurdly expensive and wasteful.
So instead of giving me an unbiased source for your ridiculous claim as I asked, you gave me MORE ridiculous claims?
If you can't, then what you say is false. All of it. Besides maybe the gold stuff but that's irrelevant. Much like bitcoin, almost no one cares about gold or uses it as a currency.