How could this have happened!? I am *so* shocked!!! /s There isn't another serious reason we ever had any interest in the Middle East, to begin with. But this won't go anywhere because any criticism of Israel is antisemitism of course!
You didn't have to. Your intent is clear and in the open. If you have trouble wrapping your head around the fact that religion or ethnicity is not relevant nor a motivation for this spying than you can't be helped.
you are making my point. all along my point was there are certain things that are true and agreed upon by all parties that will result in PC accusations of non-piety.
we both know the context of this discussion. israel spying on the white house. so its true these jews are not to be trusted. we both know that is true and cannot be disputed. they claim they are not spying, and yet they are.
but in 2019 there is an overwhelming urge for folks to be performative in their piety, to speak loudly in a way that appears noble, like to argue against anti-semitism.
thats why mentions of jewish spying are met with overwhelming whataboutism. of course i know the americans spy, and everyone spies. the topic is israel. not those other places.
so you have to mind read. tell me you know my "intent". its not sufficuent that what i said simply was true. you have to find flaws in your opponent. call everyone a racist or anti-semite or whatever. thats what i was looking for with my original point. i made a true statement that will prompt folks like you to play whataboutism games and read my mind for anti-semitism.
perhaps we should examine people's statements for truth, instead of looking to play a game of halo polishing.
like i said, if the jews installed spying devices and deny it, cant trust the jews. indisputably true.
> so its true these jews are not to be trusted. we both know that is true and cannot be disputed.
You really are missing the point. Whether it was Israel, Norway or some other allie that was spying on us, their ethnicity or religion has nothing to do with it. By you specifically referencing their ethnicity/religion you're trying to make it a factor of the spying.
> but in 2019 there is an overwhelming urge for folks to be performative in their piety, to speak loudly in a way that appears noble, like to argue against anti-semitism.
Awesome, you say I'm mind reading, yet you're doing it here. I've always been anti-racist and will always call it out when I see it. I just think it's part of being a good human who doesn't measure people by their ethnicity or religion.
> the topic is israel. not those other places.
Right, but you keep saying "the jews", when they being Jewish is immaterial to the spying. You not grasping this simple concept is astounding.
> so you have to mind read. tell me you know my "intent". its not sufficuent that what i said simply was true. you have to find flaws in your opponent.
What you said wasn't true, it is your perception that their ethnicity is material to the discussion.
> thats what i was looking for with my original point.
Ding! Ding! so you were trolling to get a reaction and I wasn't mind reading.
> read my mind for anti-semitism.
> like i said, if **the jews** installed spying devices and deny it, cant trust **the jews**.
There's no need to read your mind, it's all right there.
You’re aware the nsa tapped Merkel‘s phone too, the official statement was, no we didn’t (no spying among friends).
Does that mean you can’t trust Americans? Maybe. But the truth is every country has it’s secrets and intelligent services which developed it‘s own agenda, probably next to unknowing politics of the country. They use the incoming informations but don’t question it’s origin.
No need to accuse a whole religion for it.
The us did the exact same thing. They said exact same thing. And for sure they both lie.
Can you trust Americans? I would say in the same amount like the us can trust Israel.
We live in in a day and age intelligence agency’s try to tap everything possible, it would be counter intuitive if they didn’t and „trust“ someone.
And for real do you really think the us doesn’t spy on Israel? Do you think they could trust the US?
you arent answering. perhaps you are afraid of being accused of anti-antisemitism.
i am not asking if the US did the same thing. i wasnt asking if you can trust the US. i wasnt asking if the US lies.
you are avoiding the questions i asked. thats fine. you are not required to have the confidence to say things that you believe but might get you accused of bigotry. thats interesting.
Your question is a fucking dumb question, because you are a fucking dumb person. Everyone spies on everyone. Falling for anti-Semitic tropes (the 'sneaky jew' shit is straight 8chan galaxy brain territory) distracts you from the actual concern: how do we protect ourselves from adversarial spying, if the dumb motherfucking President will dismiss spying for political gain.
In other words, you are just another useful idiot. Congratulations.
hey man you dont have to be afraid. you can admit the jews spy on us. i know politics these days is about performative piety, and you cant say things on the restricted list. you dont have to be afraid. truth is all the defense you need.
I'm happy to admit *Israel* spies on us. I don't give a shit about the religious background. Or do you go around saying Muslims and Christians spy on us?
You seem to focus way too much on that. Again, useful idiot.
You started your comment with „you can’t trust the Jews“ oldsurehand pointed out the clear anti semitism in this statement. You didn’t accused Israel but the „Jews“.
I pointed out that the country you live in did the exact same thing with the same excuse.
But you want that I agree on you that we can’t trust the Jews.
I think I made my point. Intelligence agencies spy on other countries , that their job to ensure the supremacy of your country.
Yeah indeed I think it is damnable but we live in capitalism so it’s existential, that’s the reason all countries have intelligence agencies that try to outsmart each other, and have IT Defence.
I think not that Israel or the Jews are a solitary case and you’re fuckt if you trust them. They are like every other country. Maybe way more clever than others.
if there is anti-semitism for saying we cant trust them, is there also anti-X in your statement about not trusting the other folks you mentioned for spying?
if my country does the exact same thing, and cannot be trusted, then are we not talking about two groups who cannot be trusted, and you agree with my original point?
you just avoid the question with whataboutism. of course i know you cant trust the americans! you cant trust any people with the means to spy, inclusding the jews and their nation, israel. but i wasnt talking about the americans, or the brits, or the french, none of whom can be trusted. i was talking about the group you are scared to discuss honestly. seems anti-semitic to treat them by a lower standard, where we cannot speak the truth about them.
seems like you are pretty eager to list groups you cant trust, but not the folks i originally mentioned. thats what is so interesting.
why is it when i ask you if you can trust group X, you dont answer, but list other groups you cannot trust?
Let’s put it this way before I go to bed: you can’t trust humans in power.
Their goal is to ensure the wellbeing of your country. So they fuck all others, friends and enemies.
This includes Israel politicians,not Jews in general (and that’s the whole point of our argument) and every other country including yours and mine, but not you can’t trust Christians.