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Source: blog.lopp.net ·
Jameson stress tests new metal devices for storing seed phrase backups.
Christopher Wheeler - @Stocktrader
5 months ago
RT @lopp: The latest round of stress tests were an extremely tight competition! https://t.co/9yHF50BaXb
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Jameson Lopp - @lopp
5 months ago
The latest round of stress tests were an extremely tight competition! https://t.co/9yHF50BaXb
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willdocrazyobs4btc
redditor for 5 weeks 5 months ago
Why does this have only 59 upvotes??? u/statoshi done already fourth round of metal storage tests and gets less upvotes than some kid cheering about bitcoin price going up/down one hundred bucks?
1
willdocrazyobs4btc
redditor for 5 weeks 5 months ago
Great work as always!
I've made my own safu.ninja storage and it's awesome. I've also labeled each tile with number as the creator have here - https://safu.ninja/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/safu1-scaled.jpg
One word per side of each tile too, same as you're suggesting with a couple extra ones to shield the sides. All marine stainless steel. It was a bit fiddly to stamp the words but definitely doable.
Also, if you keep the tiles tight (using spanners), the pressure test wouldn't damage the bolt at all, IMO.
​
As I said, great work and thank you for including a DIY solution among the commercial ones. Your blog is awesome and I always spent hours on it. Thanks a bunch!
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maxcoiner
5 months ago
Stamping those little washers sounds like a recipe to send washers flying. Is this something you can realistically do without a vice grip or shop? (i.e. is it apartment friendly?)
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willdocrazyobs4btc
redditor for 5 weeks 5 months ago
You don't need a vice. All you need is a solid metal base under the tile/washer and a metal hammer. Hit it hard! It'll fly only if you hit your hand. The hammer will too, right after.
Don't forget to stamp the number too. One word each side of the washer, plus one blank washer at both ends of the bolt to protect the stamped tiles.
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lntipbot
5 months ago
Hi u/BubblegumTitanium, thanks for tipping u/statoshi **100** satoshis!
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BubblegumTitanium
5 months ago
Hey /u/statoshi great write up I always enjoy reading these.
One problem I have with this methodology is the corrosion benchmark.
It’s good in the sense that it compares the products to each other in a fair and quick method but it doesn’t actually tell you how each product would perform in different scenarios.
If a certain product passes the acid dip someone might think that the product would fare well at the bottom of a deep lake with still water. Which is also different to getting rained on then dried, over and over for many years. Which is also different to being in the beach where there is salt water.
The mechanism for corrosion that occurs is different depending on the circumstances, I’m sure a bitcoiner such as yourself can appreciate the nuance that occurs.
The cypher wheel and the safu product look cool but there would be water buildup in between the pieces with no drainage so the water would lose oxygen and that can create some gnarly corrosion depending on the situation even if it’s stainless steel.
Also the safu might actually be different metals (washers+bolt+nut) which can create an electric potential between them that exacerbates a particular corrosion mechanism. One way to avoid that is to put plastic (in marine applications nylon is often used) separators between the bolt and the washers and in between the washers. The load that is applied on the nut might also cause corrosion in different ways.
It may or may not be a problem depending on the situation and if there is corrosion it may or may not end up destroying the information that you’re trying to preserve.
I don’t want to freak anybody out but it can be a problem if you’re planning to store these for 20 years in a place where it can get wet. I also don’t want to make it seem like I think this is invalid, it just doesn’t tell the full story with regards to corrosion (and I’m not sure that OP meant to try to do that anyways).
To add some credibility to my statement I have a degree in materials science and engineering and have worked in the marine industry doing product testing. I can say that some environments are very unforgiving in unexpected ways.
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tlztlz
5 months ago
Thank you!
For the rest of the world who don't know how much 2000 Fahrenheit is, here I googled it for you:
1093.333 degrees celsius
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Skreech2011
5 months ago
Okay, I don't know shit about Bitcoin. Why would you need these products? What's the purpose?
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Secret_Operative
redditor for 3 weeks 5 months ago
When you create a bitcoin wallet, you can make a 12 or 24 word recovery seed. There is a standard, BIP-39, that draws from a ~~1024~~ 2048 word list where all of the words are unique for the first four characters. The entire standard is open source, well documented, and easy to implement. Practical use includes if you lost your bitcoin wallet and wanted to restore it, you just re-make the new wallet using your 24 word seed.
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Skreech2011
5 months ago
Huh, well all right. So it's literally a string of words used for recovery of your wallet if you were to lose access to it? So, then, why not use a password manager or something like that to keep track of your seed rather than a physical medium? Or is the physical medium for security purposes?
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Secret_Operative
redditor for 3 weeks 5 months ago
> why not use a password manager or something like that to keep track of your seed rather than a physical medium?
Great question. It's more secure. You should never enter your wallet seed into any electronic device like a phone, TV, computer, laptop, tablet etc. It could be someone is monitoring your device, or has hacked it, or will hack it in the future. You can't hack a steel plate.
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jcoinner
5 months ago
The main thing here is being fireproof. You can write your seed words on paper and that's fine as long as you don't have a house/office fire. This gives that extra bit of protection.
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statoshi
5 months ago
It's a bad idea to keep sensitive material such as this on an internet-connected device. Doing so opens you up to a wide variety of attack vectors.
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heggen
5 months ago
This is great information. Never thought about it that this small letter plates could fall apart out of the slots on heavy stress. So this kind of wallet is not a solution for me
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lntipbot
5 months ago
Hi u/bitusher, thanks for tipping u/statoshi **10000** satoshis!
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*[^(More info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/lntipbot/wiki/index) ^| [^(Balance)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=balance&message=!balance) ^| [^(Deposit)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=deposit&message=!deposit 10000) ^| [^(Withdraw)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=lntipbot&subject=withdraw&message=!withdraw put_invoice_here) ^| ^(Something wrong? Have a question?) [^(Send me a message)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=drmoore718)*
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