It will be interesting to see which happens first: SEC releasing "plain english" guidance or a judicial determination in one of the private claims. Which will be the better guide?
I'll bite just because it's you, u/popabogdan and because you asked so nicely.
Our approach has never changed nor will it. We work closely with the relevant authorities on regulatory issues of Kin.
To achieve our goal of becoming the most used cryptocurrency in the world, it's clear that Kin needs to be in the hands of millions of users around the globe. For this to happen, Kin has to be compliant from A to Z. Proving Kin is a utility is a big part of the success.
I have no idea how the new (are they new?) regulations will affect the swap mechanism. What is important here is the understanding that the Kin Foundation is;
Working hard and is committed to making the ecosystem work in terms of liquidity and flow of Kin in its economy
Working closely with the regulators on compliance
With these two understandings, it doesn't matter WHAT the solution will be, but that there WILL be a solution
Thank You so much, this was so much needed, in my country they have approved a fintech law, already two parts have been drafted (first one regulates who can provided money services second one is kyc and a third one is expected to come out in march, "which the central bank will define the digital currencies").
Some of the comments I'm seeing make no sense. Securities can have utility and still be a security. Something can also have zero utility and not be a security. Something can be 100% decentralized and still be a security. You can "pass" the Howey "test" and still be a security. People need to stop thinking these completely random and nonsensical crypto memes about security law. Honestly almost everything everyone says about this topic makes little to no sense, very few are really fit to speak on the topic, including me.
The SEC has mentioned they will work with companies with a timeline to show that their token is actually used as a utility and the SEC has mentioned that they don’t want to hinder the technology. That’s why the KIN Foundation has been working with them to stay within the Regs.
Kin1 was never sold with the promise of a future profit, it is no stake in company! Out of the four rules a security excist every rule must apply! If one is not, its no security! And only around 10% was sold, the rest is for KRE and KF. IOM its a currency, so no security!
That's not how that works. A security is a security, whether it has utlity or not. If Kin 1 is a security then it is a security and that's the end of that story. There is also no such thing as a utility token in the eyes of the law. Either it is a security or it isn't, that's all that concerns the SEC. And best believe if Kin isn't a security it will still be regulated, so I don't see what the worry is.
The issue with KIN 1 being a security is dependent on the amount of distributed nodes on the crypto's block chain. How many nodes need to define it as "safe" by the SEC is not clear yet, because they are slow learners... As an example of what is defined as a SEC or not, would be BTC and ETH, where both have been defined as sufficiently distributed and "safe". This decision hasn't been written in ink but you can find occasions on twitter and other write up's where the SEC and attorney's have stated BTC/ETH are not centralized and thereby compliant in their opinion.
Remember, in 2014 discussions along with the consternations like this were being held about ETH and XRP. The initial investors no longer have to work. Enjoy the ride and take in the scenery sometime. This is why older investors make most of the money and the younger ones don't. I know... I was one of them at one time.
"Popa" you really believe with current price levels they ever will be able to do a swap. I highly doubt it.. It is from an economical point impossible you would destroy the whole ecosystem. To be honest , I think it was a huge mistake to devide the coin in kin 1 and kin2 they should have moved it all at once at the time (a proper fork), it will and has just caused problems and confusion. The solution either move bk to ETH and hope the new ETH 2.0 is fast and scalable enough but you have transaction fees , so that wont happen. A complete swap all at ones would flood whole ecosystem , security issuess etc,, that will not happen. Last what I believe is the only option allowing a gradual regulated and controlled swap allowing a certain amount be swapped per month. When that wil come 2019, 2020, 2021? Or worse case scenario never do a swap or hard exist with ratio 1:10 (kin1:kin2).
SEC is the juridiction for the US and is not applicable for the whole world, yet it will affect kik as most users are american teens, but the rest of ecoystem (other apps) they all over the world are not bind to it. TEd himself in an AMA said if the law / reglation waives vs their vision they just move countries. Why do you think most exchanges etc..move to Malta, Switzerland and Luxembourg.
The foundamental question is a different one. Is a swap even possible at current circumstances (price differences kin1 vs kin2)?
Swelly, P365 and Kik will all be running fully with Kin2 , then liquidity will be built up on OKEX and/or Binance... THEN atomic swaps are enabled ... and all of this happens by the end of January... I disagree with your whole first paragraph argument and your second paragraph is a correct assessment
Having currently an ratio of 1% , with wallets created and DAU then I do not see the excess demand you forseing. Yet this is the result of beta and not having plenty of earning and spending possiblities. This will take time a lot of time. Since you got inside information kin is getting listed , on major exchanges you want me to believe it. So far nothing happened. Yo say end of January so where was an official announcement that it will be end of January? When will all this happen? Janauary 2020 I might say it is plausible. Liquidity aint the problem of kin it is creating real sustainable demand. I m not saying it is not possble but how things are moving at the moment it will be slow.
Move like the wind, less wind and more move please-
SPEND options is the key item, unique digital services you can ONLY buy in Kin will straighten out all of the other items regarding value, that’s why we need as many unique contributors to the ecosystem... Take Snapchat as an example , maybe certain overlays are only available via kin purchase and boom
Bevore snap chat even considers kin a lot more has to happen, finished product, direct fiat gateway, robust ecoysystem , a working finished product, not there yet. Again think more 2020 , even ETH took years to take off,
i get you and i can make some comments on what you said but those are off topic. Question is Kin1 was issued by Kik interactive on ethereum (so a normal token). It is very hard to claim that kin1 is not a security( in my mind it clearly is one). Kin2 is different and with utility and with 7 nodes and stellar consensus and being a selfstanding blockchain i think kin2 is safe from being a security. My question is if Kin1 is a security a swap will enable to exchange a commodity (kin2) for a security (kin1). It that legally possible ? Has that been done before?
I do not even know another coin who has two coins on two different blockchains having this kind of problem. Yet again even if kin1 is seen as a security and ultimately you can be charged capital gains (in germany you are charged income tax that is 42% so much more than your 25%), than it only applies to US citizens. One solution is to avoid taxation move to cyprus, get a property there and you can get the cypran nationality and then be taxed over there in Cyprus which is nothing? I have to check if it is still the case. One problem remains for the ordinary ppl converting kin1vskin2 and back they have to record all and declare it in the end but imagane every user has to do this it would not work. Your tax declaration would have wot a 20 page long excel sheet attached so you can proof what you moved. I want to see that.
yeah that's why I didn't comment on that because I'm not too sure.
What I do know though is... KF has been working with the SEC since their ICO, so I'm going to guess it'll be okay. KF has been pretty good following regulation, and swinging with the punches. Similar to the Apple situation. Apple stated no crypto apps blah blah... but Kinit managed to snag a spot and be the first listed.
That's my 2 Kin, we'll see if a mod chimes in for you, but this has been brought up several times with similar result.
I think you're over thinking the swap. Kin1 is essentially Kin2, vise-vera. The price of both will be based on demand. At first I'm sure there will be a little bit of arbitrage, but I'm sure they will tweak things until they balance out.
Apps will use Kin2, exchanges will use Kin1.
Need more Kin2 in your app to make a purchase or pay users? Just swap it with your Kin1.
Boom bam bing. 1:1
Little bit of arbitrage if every user like me what convert their 100 mn of kin into the kin2 ecoystem the inflation would be so great, then why would anyone do a survey questionaire or whatever for 100 kin when you have 100 mio kin just swapped. A free swap right now will kill the whole ecoystem, that is one reason you hear nothing from the kin foundation about the topic, because they know themselve this will be a challenge. Sorry I totally disagree with you and see it as one of the big challenges for the whole project to get this right. Of course would be the price of kin close to 1 cent (if that price level can ever be acheived and sustainable) than of course a swap would have no concsequences. So either devlaue kin2 with all the consequences or delay swap for a very long time or do a controlled with a set limit swap.
Isn't that the sad truth! The anarcho-capitalist in me cringes at gov't interference, but the realist in me says that the public needs an authority that they've been taught to listen to talk to them in a language they understand.
People are trying very hard, but it takes time to develop decentralised quality controls. Wings Dao is a crypto community curation platform that is based on ethereum. Users make project proposals and reviews, which are preserved on the blockchain to develop a reputation history of accuracy. If the majority of users vote that a project is a scam it is delisted. The road map also includes escrow for project milestone funding as opposed to lump sum
● Director from SEC told the audience at DC Fintech Week, agency guidance coming soon for the cryptocurrency.
● An official said ‘Plain English’ guidance would be coming for the ICO sector.
● Also, new SEC FinHub available for rapid feedback about securities and initial coin offerings.
More summaries at Piceto
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