We're seeing it in my hospital as well, they had to learn the hard way that intubation isn't working, losing almost 80% of the patients that are on for more than 4 days is devastating for a physician and ICU nurses.
Now it's standard protocol, if you are above 90% on the blood oxygen they put you on a bipap, you lie on your side or sit up if you can.
Intubation is now a last resort, only time will tell but we can only adapt based on what we are told and from first hand results.
Well, I think it has a lot to do with it. Because a huge rationale for all of these lockdowns was not having enough ventilators to treat everybody. That's turning out to be bullshit in itself. If it turns out that the ventilators aren't even a good treatment, that would be even more ridiculous.
>That's turning out to be bullshit in itself.
It wasn't "bullshit" - it just ended up being unnecessary in many cases. You can't use hindsight to ascribe malice to a treatment protocol assumption that was thought to be perfectly logical a month ago.
If the symptoms of this respiratory infection had ended up being more typical of respiratory infections in general, ventilators would've absolutely the order of the day.
You can call it whatever you want. NY was going hysterical because they didn't have 50,000 ventilators, so they shut everything down.
I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think it's straight up fucking incompetence. Is incompetence bullshit, or incompetence just unnecessary? That's open to your own tolerance for nonsense.
- How is it incompetence to not be able to magically predict the future?
- How is it incompetence to assume a new respiratory virus will require relatively similar treatment protocols to similar respiratory viruses?
- How is it incompetence to need to observe a disease clinically before discovering the best treatment for that disease?
I work in computers and if someone blamed me for making predictions about the likely solution to a problem I've only heard *described by someone else* and then complained when I had to troubleshoot the problem before arriving at the solution, I'd tell them to stick their complaint right up their ass.
Doctors are not magicians any more than any other profession.
Now math and science are "magic?" That's funny... when Imperial College said 2.2M people were going to die in the U.S., nobody said that was "magic" and nobody could predict that. When the NYT wrote that 2.2M people were going to die in the U.S. if we didn't lock things down, nobody called them magicians.
Why is it science when the numbers are huge and pessimistic? But "magic" when the numbers are low and optimistic? There's obviously something wrong in your analysis. It's called outcome bias.
> Now math and science are "magic?"
...Did you even read what I wrote?
>When the NYT wrote that 2.2M people were going to die in the U.S. if we didn't lock things down, nobody called them magicians.
The New York Times are not doctors. Why do you expect me to defend the reactions of hysterical journalists who know nothing about anything?
Yes, I read what you wrote. The projections for the number of ventilators weren't based on magic. They were based on mathematical models. You're the only one talking about magic instead of math.
The Imperial College numbers were math from scientists and doctors. The problem is that they were off my...running total...2000% right now.
Putting magic aside for a minute to put your magical mind at ease - would you call a 2000% math error incompetence or bullshit? Pick which word makes you feel better and use that one.
Your initial reply said that you don't know what this has to do with lockdown skepticism. You don't understand why someone should be skeptical of people saying 2.2M will die? Or that 50,000 ventilators will be needed in one state? No reason to be skeptical about numbers that are off by 2000%?
> incompetence or bullshit?
Again, you can't take a perfectly logical, reasonable assumption about respiratory viruses and call it "incompetence" just because it ended up not being the case about this particular one.
I don't understand what's so confusing about that. Again, doctors aren't magical - they need to troubleshoot problems just like every other person who deals with complex systems.
Respiratory viruses go through every year. They typically kill...10k, 20k, 50k, 100k...in the U.S. You don't believe that a "perfectly logical, reasonable assumption" would be 2.2M.
The problem that you're unable to process is that a mathematical model isn't an "assumption." It's a projection based on science. When you make a scientific, mathematical projection that is 2000% off, that is - by definition - not reasonable. You've dramatically fucked up.
Before the virus really hit in the US there was a discussion here of would you rather get the virus early or late. The ones who said “early” argued it was so they could get medical attention, a bed, and a ventilator if necessary, before hospitals were overrun. Looks like “late” was the right answer. More time for the doctors to figure out how to attack it.
Instead of quickly sedating people who had shockingly low levels of oxygen and then putting them on mechanical ventilators, many doctors are now keeping patients conscious, having them roll over in bed, recline in chairs and continue to breathe on their own — with additional oxygen — for as long as possible.
Doctor at Queens Hospital in the UK advises on potential lifesaving corona virus breathing technique
Awake proning - COVID is the first time I have ever used it clinically - but it is regularly used at the extremes of human physiologic oxygenation challenges. Biking over the Alps. Climbing the highest mountains in the world. And every mammal that runs really fast, runs prone.
Pretty much...with oxygen supplement. My sister's friend is RN in NYC, and she says it takes 8 people to turn an intubated ICU patient from laying on their back to laying on their stomach, because they are unconsious with many tubes and lines, and 75% are obese.
Could you imagine if this is the "game changer" and deaths went down 90% from rolling people over? Big pharma would be pissed.
You don't have to sign up with email. I just open it up in a regular browser. It doesn't work in my reddit is fun app because it's anonymous and doesn't do any cookie tracking but I just clear my cookies after using my browser every so often anyway.
it blocks the entire screen with a sign up page , the alt link posted works way better
Log in or create an account for
free access to up-to-date information
and expert guidance on coronavirus.
No subscription required.
Continue with Google
Continue with Facebook
Continue with Apple
This is not my experience at all but I'm not going to deny that it's yours. I haven't had to enter anything, and I don't have Facebook, nor do I connect with Google. And I don't have an Apple ID either. I'm using Firefox, and as long as it's not in incognito mode I can access any Corona virus article.
I don't think I've ever been able to read a NYtimes link on here, unless someone posts a paywall, work around, yeah, you literally can't read it, from primary link, just a white screen, with signup info, which is why you always see someone posting a new link [–]LookGeeky 7 points 2 hours ago
Without paywall: http://archive.is/SYfmK
Your post was automatically removed for being about the coronavirus. We are allowing significant news stories as their own threads; if you think your article qualifies as major news, please message the mod team. If it does not, please use the update thread here.