RT @ecurrencyhodler: I highly recommend NOT using Paywithmoon. They have a shady history hiding their technical incompetence by throwing their former CTO under the bus. Do NOT trust or use their services. https://t.co/RfA6gVmVN4
I highly recommend NOT using Paywithmoon. They have a shady history hiding their technical incompetence by throwing their former CTO under the bus. Do NOT trust or use their services. https://t.co/RfA6gVmVN4
That's good technically as people will realize the worth of bitcoin as these giant companies are starting to accept bitcoin but practically speaking i will never spend my bitcoins to pay small expenditures because you will be charge of transaction fees in btc networks plus the taxes for purchasing items. i rather trade my btc single handedly to cash and then spend it all.
Let's see. Legitimate deals with existing infrastructure?
>Kruger declined to specify which traditional financial institutions are helping convert the bitcoin to fiat on the backend.
Yeah, better keep a tight lid on that. Sounds legit.
"Works with one of the biggest online retailers?"
>To be clear, Amazon itself never touches bitcoin.
Yeah, solid "working with" right there.
But at least it's an actual, functional product launch, right?
>UPDATE (April 22, 14:10 UTC): The extension’s lightning network functionality is still being reviewed by the Chrome Web Store
I did say "I assume", right? :p
Regarding "works with Amazon", I wrote that to mean "the app works with Amazon the website", not "the team works with Amazon the company". At this point I see this independence as a feature more than a bug, because there's no way Amazon would bother with cryptoshit, so a third-party solution that works despite Amazon's apathy really does seem like a Good Thing for Bitcoin. It also seems to imply that the concept is easily portable to other merchants in the same fashion, so the team might be onto something here.
Regarding "under review"; that just seems like a good and usual thing to do, right? We'll see in a few days how that one goes.
I might be giving them a lot of benefit of the doubt here, but their scope does seem contained and their ambitions realistic, so I'm willing to wait and see. Don't worry, I'm keeping my popcorn in reach.
FWIW, I still think that Lightning Network is a fundamentally unworkable concept even on paper, nevermind in implementation, so it would be hilarious to realize that every moving part in this project works just fine, except, you know, the actual blockchain part.
I can't see the option. At least on [Amazon.fr](https://Amazon.fr).. I'll check on Other Amazon websites and update here
EDIT: Neither on [Amazon.com](https://Amazon.com). I suppose I would need a MOON account. Will read further
by connecting the browser extension to exchange accounts like Coinbase. “We’re integrating with the Visa and Mastercard networks and we get a cut of the interchange fees that merchants pay every time they receive a credit card transaction,”
for when you want another middle man taking a cut of your transaction
No mention of fees, which I assume will be unreasonably hefty akin to bitcoin ATM's. I'll stick with Purse.io and the ~15% discount I've gotten for years with them shopping at Amazon with non-LN Bitcoin.
Also these bros better do some serious KYC because this is a money laundering / fraud DREAM.
1. Get paid for your murders and cp via crypto
2. Buy everything you need from Amazon without paying taxes on your murder/cp income
3. For rent and the few other things Amazon doesn't sell, buy gift cards from Amazon and launder the money through https://www.raise.com/ and only take a 15% cut. Not a bad rate.
I wonder how returns work... might be able to launder money straight through Moon<-->Amazon directly...
So they are integrating with Visa and Mastercard and support themselves by taking a cut of the merchant fees those cards issue. Sounds like solid technology, as long as lightning works.... which is doubtful. Still inferior to fiat though. No fraud protection, etc. The part of this technology built on fiat and credit cards is solid. Buttchain is stupid.
But honestly, how the fuck is this better than just using a credit card and using fiat?
It is better because credit cards and banks involve KYC and AML unless you use gift cards which have limited dominations.
They need some intermediary to convert bitcoin to dollar. If they dont require the step of setting up an account with the intermediary, I dont see how they comply with KYC/AML, unless there is a big loophole.
> If they dont require the step of setting up an account with the intermediary, I dont see how they comply with KYC/AML, unless there is a big loophole.
“Better to ask for forgiveness than permission from the men with guns...”
Well the person buying it doesn't actually care if it's useful or not. They care whether it appears useful for the next bagholder who will buy it off them hoping to get money for nothing. Of course, that guy doesn't actually care if it's useful or not....
Instead of supporting Amazon that pays ZERO taxes meanwhile you are hunted to pay a tax because you bought a coffee with BTC, you better support local small merchants that really accept BTC directly and do not deal with other bloodsucker intermediaries that only monitor your txs and sell that info to chainanalisys companies...
“We’re integrating with the Visa and Mastercard networks and we get a cut of the interchange fees that merchants pay every time they receive a credit card transaction,” he said.
So they accept Bitcoin and pay using their VISA/Mastercard with "rewards" or some other kickback.
I was wondering how they were going to make their money ... either from a per-transaction fee, or from offering an exchange rate that is padded towards their favor, like what many payment intermediaries do, or if there was some other approach.
No idea how much they get from the credit card reward/kickback, ... I get 1.5% on my business mastercard, when the card is used online or "signature" (i.e., not PIN) at a retailer. I would bet Moon is probably getting something in the same ballpark. Doubt that is enough to operate this service. Imagine all the "Hey, I never received my shipment." or "Wrong size, I want to return it.", etc.
This company has a shady history. Do NOT trust or use their services. They previously controlled your Coinbase API keys. Then when CTO brought it up as a concern, he was ousted. Then he was thrown under the bus in an email sent out to their user base.
Got lost, disclaimer I hold UTK and I follow utrust.
Can you explain the custodial payment processor part/not being ideal because of it?
On my eyes they are like a regular payment enabler, just like PayPal, who hold funds in escrow with lower rated merchants in order to provide the protection for buyers. Merchant can accept fiat or any crypto (they have integrated) as payment. Seems ideal to me!
> Can you explain the custodial payment processor part/not being ideal because of it?
They charge payment processing fees and hold people's bitcoins for them. These are both less than ideal because it reduces the merchant's financial privacy and also their ability to control their own money.
> On my eyes they are like a regular payment enabler, just like PayPal
I agree. It just like like a regular payment enabler such as Paypal. In my opinion, that is precisely what makes utrust less than ideal. Ideally, merchants should process their own payments and hold their own money. If they want fiat money, they should accept fiat money, or trade bitcoins for it.
BTW just because I think it is less than ideal does not mean I think it is worthless. In my opinion, it is best for a company to accept bitcoins and hold them, second best if they accept bitcoins and immediately turn them into dollars (like Utrust does), and it's not even *wrong* if they ignore bitcoin altogether -- though it does make it difficult for me to pay them.
Not that I'm aware of. Purse.io lets you buy stuff from Amazon with bitcoin (and you can get up to 15% or more off the purchase by doing so), but they don't support lightning yet. Bitrefill lets you top up your Amazon gift card balance using bitcoin and they Do support lightning (with a 2% discount to boot), but it takes some finaggling to use that for live purchases since they don't have a Chrome extension. You have to put your order in a checkout cart to see the final cost, then go to Bitrefill, then buy an Amazon gift card for that amount, then go back to Amazon, apply that gift card, and then continue checking out, at which point you'll have the option to pay for your order using your gift card balance. So it's quite cumbersome. A Bitrefill chrome extension could smooth this user experience, though. I suspect Moon is really doing something similar on the backend, but just masking all of that with a clean interface for the frontend.
I'm not thrilled that Moon asks you to create an account -- but I just made a throwaway email with guerrillamail.com and it was fine.
You don't need a browser extension to use Purse. Just paste any Amazon product URL (or wishlist URL) into the search bar on Purse.io. The only things I've ever found on Amazon that I couldn't buy through Purse were items that Amazon had marked as "reserved exclusively for Amazon Prime members."
> They claim you can buy amazon stuff but it’s mostly just a curated list of a few things.
It works great for me, I use the Purse extension for Chrome and it makes it so that any Amazon page has a "buy with purse.io" button that makes the whole experience smooth. I'm just waiting for them to add lightning support.
Install this Firefox addon and then you can use any Chrome extension: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/chrome-store-foxified/
You can also try this: go to any product on Amazon, grab its title, and search for that in Purse.io. It should return an option to buy that product using bitcoin.
Your right that's the one I was thinking of purse.io but like you said they dont support it through lightening. You think they would have been the first to do it through lightening since they were already doing it through on chain bitcoin.
> You think they would have been the first to do it through lightening since they were already doing it through on chain bitcoin.
Right. I suspect that part of the reason they don't currently support lightning is because they're currently an escrow service where the buyer makes the initial deposit into the escrow. It's not really possible right now to deposit directly into an escrow multisig with lightning (at least, I'm not *aware* of any way to do so). There is an equivalent lightning technology that can replicate what Purse does -- called hodl invoices -- but it's only recently been made available in LND and I'm not sure what the Purse team's stance is how quickly they can deploy new technologies in production. But if they end up using hodl invoices it will be awesome, because it will allow them to do a fully non-custodial escrow service over lightning.